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navarro
08-26-2017, 01:54 AM
Hi! I'm from Northern Spain, I took an autosomal test and was surprised to get a 23% Italian/Greek. I've been working on my tree for the past 12 years and never came across an Italian/Greek ancestor, so I assumed this is due to the history and migration patterns between these two countries, as Sicily and a large area of Italy mainland, was part of the Crown of Aragon, and later in the 16th and 17th Century during the Spanish Empire era. However, people keep telling me that percentage is too high and has to be due to having relatively recent Italian and Greek Ancestors. These are my results. Thanks!

Africa 2%
Low Confidence Region
Africa North 2%

Europe 97%
Iberian Peninsula 59%
Italy/Greece 23%
Europe West 8%
Scandinavia 5%
Low Confidence Region

West Asia < 1%
Low Confidence Region
Middle East < 1%
Caucasus < 1%

Tz85
08-26-2017, 02:02 AM
Not too shocking, lot's of Spanish people come back with Italian/Greek, it is on the higher side..

You probably do have a recent Italian ancestor. Do any if your Spanish surnames have an Italian variant?

navarro
08-26-2017, 02:24 AM
Hi Tz85! Thank you for your message. No, everybody got the name of the Saint of the day they were born and no Italian's surname at all. In fact, all surnames are from the area they were living. My paternal's family tree goes back to the 1600. I was very unfortunate to find a distant cousin who is a professional genealogist and facilitated me the tree for free. It matched what I had so far, but it went much further back... However, I know very little about my maternal's tree, it only goes back approx 200 years. Until 1930s, they all lived in a small village in the middle of nowhere, inland, they were farmers, living off the land. A few Spanish who have an Italian parent have told me that their percentage of Italian isn't as higher as mine and that's why I decided to ask in this forum. Thank you!

navarro
08-26-2017, 02:28 AM
I uploaded my K36 results on the Tolan's Table and Italian/Greek is still high. Unfortunately it seems I can't post a photo, as I just registered and it doesn't allow me to post links.

Tz85
08-26-2017, 02:37 AM
I uploaded my K36 results on the Tolan's Table and Italian/Greek is still high. Unfortunately it seems I can't post a photo, as I just registered and it doesn't allow me to post links.

Are you on Gedmatch? I'll look at your match list and overlapping segments.

navarro
08-26-2017, 03:10 AM
Thank you. My kit number is A285082. I have been on Ancestry for over a year now, I check my matches regularly and can't see any Italian's surnames either. So far I've only came across to one person with an Italian surname. He's a distant match, 5th-8th cousin, and has no tree, so no point messaging him. On Ancestry most of my matches seem American/British. Thanks!

Tz85
08-26-2017, 03:44 AM
Thank you. My kit number is A285082. I have been on Ancestry for over a year now, I check my matches regularly and can't see any Italian's surnames either. So far I've only came across to one person with an Italian surname. He's a distant match, 5th-8th cousin, and has no tree, so no point messaging him. On Ancestry most of my matches seem American/British. Thanks!

Looking at your match list I saw a couple Fiero's, Rossi's, Ruscitti, and Salvatore. That being said, between 7-8cM. Doesn't look like a recent Italian ancestor. Maybe something in the 6-7 cousin range. Highly doubt it will be traceable.

You do have a ton of Jewish surnames, scattered all throughout your match list, including Cohen, Shapiro (multiple), Kaplan, and Greenbaum, some being over 10cM, which indicates a recent Jewish ancestor.

navarro
08-26-2017, 03:57 AM
Looking at your match list I saw a couple Fiero's, Rossi's, Ruscitti, and Salvatore. That being said, between 7-8cM. Doesn't look like a recent Italian ancestor. Maybe something in the 6-7 cousin range. Highly doubt it will be traceable.

You do have a ton of Jewish surnames, scattered all throughout your match list, including Cohen, Shapiro (multiple), Kaplan, and Greenbaum, some being over 10cM, which indicates a recent Jewish ancestor.

That's right and I contacted one of them because, even she was a distant match, she was on my top matches and she was a professional genealogist. She wrote an article on her blog and explained that it was clear that our 11.4cM match likely comes from a shared Sephardic ancestor over 500 years ago. I think they were from Ukraine. Since she wrote the article, she has uploaded more kits and they are in my top matches as well. But basically she said to ignore my Jewish matches if they are under 15cm because they are IBD, as Jewish are endogamous.

Again, I don't have a known Jewish ancestor. So far all Catholics.

The other day I uploaded my raw dna to Wegene and it gave me a totally different result. I believe it was 80% Spanish and 20% Balkans. I guess that's totally inaccurate, isn't it?

Tz85
08-26-2017, 04:08 AM
That's right and I contacted one of them because, even she was a distant match, she was on my top matches and she was a professional genealogist. She wrote an article on her blog and explained that it was clear that our 11.4cM match likely comes from a shared Sephardic ancestor over 500 years ago. I think they were from Ukraine. Since she wrote the article, she has uploaded more kits and they are in my top matches as well. But basically she said to ignore my Jewish matches if they are under 15cm because they are IBD, as Jewish are endogamous.

Again, I don't have a known Jewish ancestor. So far all Catholics.

The other day I uploaded my raw dna to Wegene and it gave me a totally different result. I believe it was 80% Spanish and 20% Balkans. I guess that's totally inaccurate, isn't it?


Discard it? Yeah maybe if it was a couple matches, but you have Jewish matches literally all through out your match list. Of course they won't be traceable, but you do indeed have a Jewish ancestor. Wegene is terrible. Go with SNP Tribes Analysis, and Dr. McDonald. He should be interested in examining your genome.

navarro
08-26-2017, 04:20 AM
Discard it? Yeah maybe if it was a couple matches, but you have Jewish matches literally all through out your match list. Of course they won't be traceable, but you do indeed have a Jewish ancestor. Wegene is terrible. Go with SNP Tribes Analysis, and Dr. McDonald. He should be interested in examining your genome.

That's interesting. There was a large Jewish community in Spain. But In 1492 they were forced to either be converted to Catholicism or were forced into exile. I'll contact SNP Tribes Analysis. Is there any Gedmatch project I could take to find out more ?

Tz85
08-26-2017, 04:25 AM
That's interesting. There was a large Jewish community in Spain. But In 1492 they were forced to either be converted to Catholicism or were forced into exile. I'll contact SNP Tribes Analysis. Is there any Gedmatch project I could take to find out more ?

Their is a forum on Gedmatch, you can post your kitnumber in the Jewish section, maybe Kevin Brook can take a look at it for you. He's an expert in Jewish dna.

navarro
08-26-2017, 04:29 AM
Their is a forum on Gedmatch, you can post your kitnumber in the Jewish section, maybe Kevin Brook can take a look at it for you. He's an expert in Jewish dna.

Thank you! I will.

Don Felipe
08-26-2017, 08:51 AM
Hi! I'm from Northern Spain, I took an autosomal test and was surprised to get a 23% Italian/Greek. I've been working on my tree for the past 12 years and never came across an Italian/Greek ancestor, so I assumed this is due to the history and migration patterns between these two countries, as Sicily and a large area of Italy mainland, was part of the Crown of Aragon, and later in the 16th and 17th Century during the Spanish Empire era. However, people keep telling me that percentage is too high and has to be due to having relatively recent Italian and Greek Ancestors.


I think you are right to assume you don't have any recent Italian lineage, especially in light of your own family tree research. Like Ancestry mentions themselves their Ethnicity Estimates reflect origins which can go back "thousands of years ago". Also the countryname labeling of AncestryDNA's regions is not intended to be taken as gospel. According to Ancestry's own info socalled "Italy/Greece" is "also found in: France, Switzerland, Portugal, Spain". I have been doing a survey of Spanish AncestryDNA results and your breakdown does not stand out in any major way at all. In fact for some Portuguese socalled "Italy/Greece" often gets reported with even higher amounts. Yet still to their knowledge they are fully Portuguese.

Here's a link to an article which goes into greater detail:

https://tracingafricanroots.wordpress.com/ancestrydna/iberian-results


Summary of 10 Spanish results:

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/es-stats-n10.png

sweuro
08-26-2017, 10:23 AM
You don't need to have any italian or jewish ancestry at all , that's bullshit . Don't take the componentes literally like some ignorants do. That's because the Iberian component is Basque, and thus what makes a spaniard different from a pure Basque is something italian-like (in other words, more shifted to west-asia), and that is reflected with the Italy/Greece . You can see also that on PCA plots, we spaniards can plot between basques and northern-italians.

Tz85
08-26-2017, 11:54 AM
You don't need to have any italian or jewish ancestry at all , that's bullshit . Don't take the componentes literally like some ignorants do. That's because the Iberian component is Basque, and thus what makes a spaniard different from a pure Basque is something italian-like (in other words, more shifted to west-asia), and that is reflected with the Italy/Greece . You can see also that on PCA plots, we spaniards can plot between basques and northern-italians.

Yes don't take them seriously, theirs no point in taking DNA tests at all. Lol what a joke. Dude if you wanna be 100% Spanish, that's great, but at some point you need to accept reality.

This person has a ton of NON Spanish matches in the 5th cousin range. Are you going to say they're ancient matches? You don't understand admixture. A person who has a ton of non Spanish matches, I'm sorry, is not 100% Spanish.

sweuro
08-26-2017, 01:58 PM
Yes don't take them seriously, theirs no point in taking DNA tests at all.
Yes there is a point , but you have to be ready to understand, and not think that because you score Italian/Greek you have actual italian ancestry.

This person has a ton of NON Spanish matches in the 5th cousin range. Are you going to say they're ancient matches? You don't understand admixture. A person who has a ton of non Spanish matches, I'm sorry, is not 100% Spanish.
Doesn't mean shit. All europeans have matches that are not part of their ancestry. Me myself I got "cousins" as far as Lithuania or Russia. Unless it's a big sharing cM, .means nothing.

Tz85
08-26-2017, 02:13 PM
Yes there is a point , but you have to be ready to understand, and not think that because you score Italian/Greek you have actual italian ancestry.

Doesn't mean shit. All europeans have matches that are not part of their ancestry. Me myself I got "cousins" as far as Lithuania or Russia. Unless it's a big sharing cM, .means nothing.

If you're going to tell me, that a person who has Jewish matches all throughout their matchlist, doesn't share a Jewish ancestor with people who are fully Jewish, tells me you are clueless. The fact that you believe that someone who comes back 20%+ Italian on tests, has no Italian admixture, tells me you're clueless.


Btw at 11cM largest block is a significant match.

sweuro
08-26-2017, 02:20 PM
20%+ Italian on tests, has no Italian admixture, tells me you're clueless.
Exactly. There is not italian ancestry at all.

Tz85
08-26-2017, 02:22 PM
Exactly. There is not italian ancestry at all.

Here's his k13. Elevated East Med, and consistant Southwrn Italian admixture.


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 36.04
2 West_Med 28.58
3 Baltic 13.69
4 East_Med 12.53
5 Red_Sea 3.40
6 West_Asian 2.36
7 Northeast_African 1.45
8 Oceanian 1.14


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Galicia @ 4.582829
2 Portuguese @ 5.008241
3 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.486205
4 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.137109
5 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.609369
6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.794207
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.810872
8 Spanish_Cantabria @ 6.852871
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.963149
10 Spanish_Murcia @ 7.013052
11 Southwest_French @ 8.058290
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.797029
13 North_Italian @ 10.221940
14 French @ 12.483675
15 Tuscan @ 17.480886
16 South_Dutch @ 18.957024
17 West_German @ 19.032396
18 Serbian @ 22.160383
19 French_Basque @ 22.176344
20 Romanian @ 22.361088

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Italian +50% Southwest_French @ 3.575578


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +25% Sardinian +25% Swedish @ 1.865426


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.755909
2 Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura + Swedish @ 1.784432
3 Portuguese + Portuguese + Sardinian + Swedish @ 1.865426
4 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.894562
5 North_German + Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Galicia @ 1.924076
6 Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Galicia + Swedish @ 1.930546
7 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.933166
8 Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Galicia + Swedish @ 1.956021
9 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Murcia @ 1.970163
10 Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Extremadura + Swedish @ 1.980966
11 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.010646
12 North_German + Sardinian + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia @ 2.034089
13 North_Swedish + Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.034677
14 North_German + Portuguese + Portuguese + Sardinian @ 2.074085
15 North_Swedish + Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.093324
16 Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Extremadura + Swedish @ 2.104059
17 North_German + Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia @ 2.127500
18 North_Swedish + Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.153259
19 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.169065
20 Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 2.174082

sweuro
08-26-2017, 02:23 PM
Here's his k13


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 36.04
2 West_Med 28.58
3 Baltic 13.69
4 East_Med 12.53
5 Red_Sea 3.40
6 West_Asian 2.36
7 Northeast_African 1.45
8 Oceanian 1.14


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Galicia @ 4.582829
2 Portuguese @ 5.008241
3 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.486205
4 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.137109
5 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.609369
6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.794207
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.810872
8 Spanish_Cantabria @ 6.852871
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.963149
10 Spanish_Murcia @ 7.013052
11 Southwest_French @ 8.058290
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.797029
13 North_Italian @ 10.221940
14 French @ 12.483675
15 Tuscan @ 17.480886
16 South_Dutch @ 18.957024
17 West_German @ 19.032396
18 Serbian @ 22.160383
19 French_Basque @ 22.176344
20 Romanian @ 22.361088

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Italian +50% Southwest_French @ 3.575578


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +25% Sardinian +25% Swedish @ 1.865426


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.755909
2 Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura + Swedish @ 1.784432
3 Portuguese + Portuguese + Sardinian + Swedish @ 1.865426
4 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.894562
5 North_German + Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Galicia @ 1.924076
6 Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Galicia + Swedish @ 1.930546
7 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.933166
8 Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Galicia + Swedish @ 1.956021
9 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Murcia @ 1.970163
10 Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Extremadura + Swedish @ 1.980966
11 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.010646
12 North_German + Sardinian + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Galicia @ 2.034089
13 North_Swedish + Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.034677
14 North_German + Portuguese + Portuguese + Sardinian @ 2.074085
15 North_Swedish + Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.093324
16 Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Extremadura + Swedish @ 2.104059
17 North_German + Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Galicia @ 2.127500
18 North_Swedish + Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.153259
19 North_Swedish + Sardinian + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.169065
20 Portuguese + Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 2.174082
So ? Looks like a normal spaniard to me.

Tz85
08-26-2017, 02:31 PM
So ? Looks like a normal spaniard to me.

Normal Spaniard, with some Italian admixture.

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 9.37
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 3.55
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 4.85
Fennoscandian 3.11
French 3.41
Iberian 31.65
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 19.45
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 6.07
North_African 2.62
North_Atlantic 1.17
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 8.13
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.57
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 6.03

sweuro
08-26-2017, 02:35 PM
Normal Spaniard, with some Italian admixture.

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 9.37
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 3.55
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 4.85
Fennoscandian 3.11
French 3.41
Iberian 31.65
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 19.45
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 6.07
North_African 2.62
North_Atlantic 1.17
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 8.13
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.57
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 6.03
Looks normal to me. I actually score close to 20% Italian on k36 and the spanish average is around 15%

Tz85
08-26-2017, 02:55 PM
Looks normal to me. I actually score close to 20% Italian on k36 and the spanish average is around 15%

So no Italian or Jewish admixture. Can you explain the fully Jewish matches all through out the matchlist?

sweuro
08-26-2017, 03:09 PM
So no Italian or Jewish admixture. Can you explain the fully Jewish matches all through out the matchlist?
Yup, not italian, I don't see the reason why. As for the "jew" it's Sephardic jews who have some spanish ancestry, not the other way around.

sweuro
08-26-2017, 03:17 PM
Here's his k13. Elevated East Med, and consistant Southwrn Italian admixture.


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 36.04
2 West_Med 28.58
3 Baltic 13.69
4 East_Med 12.53
5 Red_Sea 3.40
6 West_Asian 2.36
7 Northeast_African 1.45
8 Oceanian 1.14

His east-med is actually normal, there is many spanish regions with higher average than him (Castille-Leon, Cataluna, Valencia, Murcia, Andalusia, Extremadura)

Tz85
08-26-2017, 03:24 PM
Yup, not italian, I don't see the reason why. As for the "jew" it's Sephardic jews who have some spanish ancestry, not the other way around.

Actually many of his Jewish matches are Ashkenazi, of course you didn't look at his match list.

stealth
08-26-2017, 03:28 PM
Actually many of his Jewish matches are Ashkenazi, of course you didn't look at his match list.

Also another possibility, his Sephardic ancestors could have married with Ashkenazi, this will be reason for the Ashkenazi matches showing.

Tz85
08-26-2017, 03:36 PM
Also another possibility, his Sephardic ancestors could have married with Ashkenazi, this will be reason for the Ashkenazi matches showing.

Sure, and that proves my point that the Jewish admixture is real.

stealth
08-26-2017, 03:38 PM
Sure, and that proves my point that the Jewish admixture is real.

How does this prove?

Tz85
08-26-2017, 03:52 PM
How does this prove?

Because the matches are Sephardi, AND Ashkenazi, I'm not even mentioning the fact that most Spaniards have no Sephardic admixture at all.

Tz85
08-26-2017, 03:58 PM
Here's one of his matches. He shares over 11cM with this person. This person is 100% Ashkenazi. If your going to discuss, at least do the research.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 ASHKENAZI 29.14
2 EAST_MED 16.78
3 ATLANTIC 10.30
4 WEST_MED 9.55
5 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 9.54
6 WEST_ASIAN 9.02
7 MIDDLE_EASTERN 8.54
8 SOUTH_BALTIC 3.51
9 SOUTH_ASIAN 1.90


Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
14 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 AJ @ 6.760185
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 25.350216
3 Tuscan @ 27.400129
4 GR @ 28.041468
5 North_Italian @ 29.716738
6 RO @ 31.110365
7 Serbian @ 33.007732
8 PT @ 33.037140
9 ES @ 34.998714
10 TR @ 35.116192
11 AT @ 35.922451
12 FR @ 36.483471
13 HU @ 36.768486
14 Moroccan @ 36.901066
15 Algerian @ 37.760574
16 IQ @ 38.843624
17 Armenian @ 39.872536
18 Assyrian @ 40.015446
19 IR @ 40.134647
20 Mandean @ 40.222965

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% AJ +50% AJ @ 6.760185


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% AJ +25% AJ +25% AJ @ 6.760185


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++
1 AJ + AJ + AJ + AJ @ 6.760185
2 AJ + AJ + AJ + Tuscan @ 8.560330
3 AJ + AJ + AJ + North_Italian @ 8.682387
4 AJ + AJ + AJ + PT @ 8.699759
5 AJ + AJ + AJ + ES @ 8.910128
6 AJ + AJ + AJ + FR @ 9.020486
7 AJ + AJ + AJ + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 9.175045
8 AJ + AJ + AJ + AT @ 9.763542
9 AJ + AJ + AJ + Cornish @ 9.812206
10 AJ + AJ + AJ + RO @ 9.907916
11 AJ + AJ + AJ + English @ 9.932376
12 AJ + AJ + AJ + West_&_Central_German @ 9.939507
13 AJ + AJ + AJ + NL @ 10.025934
14 AJ + AJ + AJ + Serbian @ 10.109988
15 AJ + AJ + AJ + GR @ 10.114933
16 AJ + AJ + AJ + Scottish @ 10.120773
17 AJ + AJ + AJ + Orcadian @ 10.137015
18 AJ + AJ + AJ + IE @ 10.197496
19 AJ + AJ + AJ + HU @ 10.515122
20 AJ + AJ + AJ + DK @ 10.561349

stealth
08-26-2017, 03:59 PM
Because the matches are Sephardi, AND Ashkenazi, I'm not even mentioning the fact that most Spaniards have no Sephardic admixture at all.

Sephardic community was established in Spain for how long and some of them converted but they didnt leave a trace in genetics of Spain?

Tz85
08-26-2017, 04:01 PM
Sephardic community was established in Spain for how long and some of them converted but they didnt leave a trace right in genetics of Spain?

Nope not really.

stealth
08-26-2017, 04:04 PM
Nope not really.

Ok, who are Marranos?

Tz85
08-26-2017, 04:07 PM
Ok, who are Marranos?

Here's another one of his matches. He shares 10.6cM largest block with this person who is 100% Ashkenazi Jew. If you believe this match is based on some trace Sephardi, you don't have a damn clue what you're talking about. This is 2 100% Ashkenazi admixture at around 11cM largest block.
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 ASHKENAZI 29.68
2 EAST_MED 20.11
3 WEST_MED 10.67
4 MIDDLE_EASTERN 9.48
5 ATLANTIC 9.04
6 WEST_ASIAN 7.21
7 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 6.96
8 SOUTH_BALTIC 4.28
9 SIBERIAN 1.53


Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
14 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 AJ @ 4.443411
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 24.751699
3 GR @ 26.979750
4 Tuscan @ 28.192364
5 North_Italian @ 30.877724
6 RO @ 32.233284
7 Serbian @ 34.594555
8 PT @ 34.818790
9 TR @ 35.042934
10 Moroccan @ 36.671116
11 ES @ 36.766140
12 Algerian @ 36.957237
13 IQ @ 37.646576
14 AT @ 38.280445
15 HU @ 38.663078
16 Assyrian @ 38.959240
17 FR @ 38.966080
18 Mandean @ 39.074150
19 Armenian @ 39.387562
20 Samaritan @ 39.620739

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% AJ +50% AJ @ 4.443411


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% AJ +25% AJ +25% AJ @ 4.443411


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++
1 AJ + AJ + AJ + AJ @ 4.443411
2 AJ + AJ + AJ + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 7.556588
3 AJ + AJ + AJ + Tuscan @ 8.049930
4 AJ + AJ + AJ + GR @ 8.255770
5 AJ + AJ + AJ + North_Italian @ 8.568918
6 AJ + AJ + AJ + PT @ 9.294289
7 AJ + AJ + AJ + ES @ 9.572984
8 AJ + AJ + AJ + RO @ 9.818649
9 AJ + AJ + AJ + Moroccan @ 9.855947
10 AJ + AJ + AJ + Algerian @ 10.167207
11 AJ + AJ + AJ + TR @ 10.318786
12 AJ + AJ + AJ + FR @ 10.424968
13 AJ + AJ + AJ + Serbian @ 10.461782
14 AJ + AJ + AJ + IQ @ 10.812454
15 AJ + AJ + AJ + AT @ 10.929582
16 AJ + AJ + AJ + Samaritan @ 11.037973
17 AJ + AJ + AJ + Assyrian @ 11.152052
18 AJ + AJ + AJ + Mandean @ 11.164123
19 AJ + AJ + AJ + Armenian @ 11.228440
20 AJ + AJ + AJ + HU @ 11.261298

Done.

stealth
08-26-2017, 04:08 PM
Nope not really.

Africa 2%
Low Confidence Region
Africa North 2%

Europe 97%
Iberian Peninsula 59%
Italy/Greece 23%
Europe West 8%
Scandinavia 5%
Low Confidence Region

West Asia < 1%
Low Confidence Region
Middle East < 1%
Caucasus < 1%

^ What in his results is suggesting the Ashkenazi to you he is scoring 0% Ashkenazi here

Tz85
08-26-2017, 04:19 PM
Africa 2%
Low Confidence Region
Africa North 2%

Europe 97%
Iberian Peninsula 59%
Italy/Greece 23%
Europe West 8%
Scandinavia 5%
Low Confidence Region

West Asia < 1%
Low Confidence Region
Middle East < 1%
Caucasus < 1%

^ What in his results is suggesting the Ashkenazi to you he is scoring 0% Ashkenazi here

Him matching 100% Ashkenazi's within recent times suggests, Ashkenazi ancestry. Do I need to post a 3rd 100% Ashkenazi Jew from within his matchlist?

The fact of the matter is most Spaniards results show practically no Sephardic. If you you don't believe me, feel free to google research papers on Spaniards.

stealth
08-26-2017, 04:26 PM
Him matching 100% Ashkenazi's within recent times suggests, Ashkenazi ancestry. Do I need to post a 3rd 100% Ashkenazi Jew from within his matchlist?

The fact of the matter is most Spaniards results show practically no Sephardic. If you you don't believe me, feel free to google research papers on Spaniards.

You put far too much weight on Jtest. Have you been able to present the autosomal of the Ashkenazi matches to prove they are indeed 100% Ashkenazi or you are cherry picking results. I bet there will be Sephardic admixture as well if you break down the autosomal.

Tz85
08-26-2017, 04:34 PM
You put far too much weight on Jtest. Have you been able to present the autosomal of the Ashkenazi matches to prove they are indeed 100% Ashkenazi or you are cherry picking results. I bet there will be Sephardic admixture as well if you break down the autosomal.

These 2 matches are Greenbaums, and Kaplan, and they are almost 30% Ashkenazi on jtest. I assume you also know nothing about the jtest.

Tz85
08-26-2017, 04:37 PM
I showed you their admixture, are you hard of sight? Do you know what AJ+AJ+AJ+AJ means?

stealth
08-26-2017, 04:39 PM
These 2 matches are Greenbaums, and Kaplan, and they are almost 30% Ashkenazi on jtest. I assume you also know nothing about the jtest.

Since you are expert genealogist I am wondering about these new regions on Geneplaza.

Specifically regions, Southwestern European and Eastern Mediterranean.

18369

Tz85
08-26-2017, 04:42 PM
Since you are expert genealogist I am wondering about these new regions on Geneplaza.

Specifically regions, Southwestern European and Eastern Mediterranean.

18369

It means that you might not be 100% Slavic.

stealth
08-26-2017, 04:45 PM
It means that you might not be 100% Slavic.

Oh yeah, so what I am?

Tz85
08-26-2017, 04:47 PM
Since you are expert genealogist I am wondering about these new regions on Geneplaza.

Specifically regions, Southwestern European and Eastern Mediterranean.

18369

Btw I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but I will say that to have multiple 100% Ashkenazi matches at 11-10% largest cM, and to brush it off as, possibly from a trace Sephardi admixture is flat out retarded. Considering Ashkenazi's stayed within their own communities for 100s of years. These matches aren't 5-7cM range as to suggest, these are 11-10cM.

Tz85
08-26-2017, 04:48 PM
Oh yeah, so what I am?

What's your Gedmatch ID?

stealth
08-26-2017, 04:50 PM
What's your Gedmatch ID?

What info you need? I will post it for you

Tz85
08-26-2017, 04:57 PM
What info you need? I will post it for you

Your Gedmatch id. You can pm me with it, if you want.

stealth
08-26-2017, 05:01 PM
Your Gedmatch id. You can pm me with it, if you want.

Stealth- Jtest

Population
SOUTH_BALTIC 30.62
EAST_EURO 20.10
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 18.69
ATLANTIC 12.56
WEST_MED 5.73
ASHKENAZI 3.25
EAST_MED 4.84
WEST_ASIAN 3.41
MIDDLE_EASTERN -
SOUTH_ASIAN -
EAST_AFRICAN 0.34
EAST_ASIAN -
SIBERIAN 0.26
WEST_AFRICAN 0.20

^ Here is my Jtest, low Ashkenazi dont you think?

Tz85
08-26-2017, 05:10 PM
Stealth- Jtest

Population
SOUTH_BALTIC 30.62
EAST_EURO 20.10
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 18.69
ATLANTIC 12.56
WEST_MED 5.73
ASHKENAZI 3.25
EAST_MED 4.84
WEST_ASIAN 3.41
MIDDLE_EASTERN -
SOUTH_ASIAN -
EAST_AFRICAN 0.34
EAST_ASIAN -
SIBERIAN 0.26
WEST_AFRICAN 0.20

^ Here is my Jtest, low Ashkenazi dont you think?

Let me see your match list

stealth
08-26-2017, 05:13 PM
Let me see your match list

What you think about my Jtest results?

Tz85
08-26-2017, 05:29 PM
What you think about my Jtest results?

The jtest was made for people with Jewish admixture or ancestry.

stealth
08-26-2017, 05:34 PM
The jtest was made for people with Jewish admixture or ancestry.

Ok, so what is the final verdict based on my results, any Jewish Ashkenazic/ Sephardic/ Romaniote?

Tz85
08-26-2017, 06:01 PM
Ok, so what is the final verdict based on my results, any Jewish Ashkenazic/ Sephardic/ Romaniote?

I have to see your match list. Can't just go by admixture. Do you not understand that?

vettor
08-26-2017, 06:18 PM
Stealth- Jtest

Population
SOUTH_BALTIC 30.62
EAST_EURO 20.10
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 18.69
ATLANTIC 12.56
WEST_MED 5.73
ASHKENAZI 3.25
EAST_MED 4.84
WEST_ASIAN 3.41
MIDDLE_EASTERN -
SOUTH_ASIAN -
EAST_AFRICAN 0.34
EAST_ASIAN -
SIBERIAN 0.26
WEST_AFRICAN 0.20

^ Here is my Jtest, low Ashkenazi dont you think?

this is an old eurogenes test ...........it has calculator effect , david the creator never fixed this issue same as his other test called EUTEST.
conclusion is , under 4% it is an error

If you had over 4% then you could take notice of it


so on those results, ignore all under 4%

stealth
08-26-2017, 11:45 PM
this is an old eurogenes test ...........it has calculator effect , david the creator never fixed this issue same as his other test called EUTEST.
conclusion is , under 4% it is an error

If you had over 4% then you could take notice of it


so on those results, ignore all under 4%

Yes I agree Jtest is a useless calculator for most samples, I realize most people will still score 3.99% or less with no real Ashkenazi admixture.

Tz85
08-27-2017, 12:41 AM
Yes I agree Jtest is a useless calculator for most samples, I realize most people will still score 3.99% or less with no real Ashkenazi admixture.

Useless? Seriously?

stealth
08-27-2017, 01:24 AM
Useless? Seriously?

There is better tests to determine real Ashkenazi %, many users on here are in agreement.

Anyways, you suggested that my Southwestern European % and Eastern Mediterranean % indicate something more than Slavic, what is this results showing? You have some sort of gut feeling on the topic so you can elaborate more.

Geneplaza offers an Ashkenazi region in their report that is not present in my sample.

navarro
08-28-2017, 02:09 AM
Thank you for taking time to look into my results. I can confirm that at least 15 of my 20 top matches are Ashkenazi Jews, sharing between 11.6cM to 19.70cM. I don't know much about genealogy, but I guess I must had Ashkenazi Jews ancestors at some point. Whenever it was 100 or 1000 years ago, I don't know, but that can't be a coincidence. As I posted above, I know very little of my maternal side, but so far all Catholics from Aragon, Navarra, Basque Country and Iparralde / Bearn France. I've been searching on the internet and it seems Navarro as well as other of my ancestors surnames were Sephardi surnames. I have took the mt Full Sequence. Not sure if it will help me with this or will confuse me more! :)

catman44
09-02-2017, 06:17 AM
I'm half spanish, half brit/irish, and i too got a large italian/greek percentage on ancestry DNA (more than double my iberian %)

https://i.imgur.com/JJHkPoz.jpg

Trixster
09-02-2017, 07:18 AM
this is an old eurogenes test ...........it has calculator effect , david the creator never fixed this issue same as his other test called EUTEST.
conclusion is , under 4% it is an error

If you had over 4% then you could take notice of it


so on those results, ignore all under 4%

My mom 5.26, my dad 6.64 and myself 6.65. I don't attach a whole lot of weight to the value behind the decimals. Not sure if these numbers would have any significance.

Still, how could I be more of something than my parents? :\