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Principe
09-07-2017, 11:56 AM
The 3rd addition to the series, is now Calabria's Y dna based off ftdna sample size is much larger than Basilicata and Puglia at 98.

The Frequency goes like this:

G: 24%
J2a: 18%
E: 18%
R1b: 16%
R1a: 8%
J1: 8%
I1: 5%
T: 2%
I2: 1%

For G: There are 8 under G-M406, 2 just at G-M406, 1 G-L14, 1 G-FGC5089, 1 G-M3422, 1 G-M3302 and 2 G-Z6029. There is 4 under G-Z725. 1 G-Z17775, 1 G-CTS11562 (G1), 1 G-U1, 1 G-Z1903, 1 G-L660 and an additional 7 not further tested.

For J2a: We have 2 J-FGC15901, 2 J-L70 , 1 J-Z2177, 1 J-M319, 2 not further tested, 1 J-PF7384, 1 J-L210, 1 J-Z7671, 1 J-FGC9961, 1 J-M67 (not further tested), 1 J-M92, 1 J-SK1336 and 1 J-PH2651.

For E: We have 6 E-V13. 3 E-M84 including 1 E-PF6751. 3 E-V22, 4 E-V12, 1 E-M35 (not further tested) and 1 E-M123 (not further tested).

For R1b: We have 8 at the R-M269 level not really tested. Then 1 R-DF27, 1 R-ZZ12_1, 1 R-CTS7822, 1 R-FGC42003, 1 R-Z150, 1 R-FGC13486, 1 R-CTS10543, and 1 R-PF7562.

For R1a: We have 4 at the R-M198 level not really tested. Then 1 R-CTS3402, 1 R-CTS8816 and 2 R-Z283.

For J1: We have 1 at J-M267 and 1 at J-P58 that are not further tested. Then 2 J-ZS2415, 1 J-L862, 1 J-Z642, 1 J-FGC15941, 1 J-PF4867.

For I1: We have 3 left at I-M253. Then 1 I-CTS1148 and 1 I-A6397.

For T: We have 1 T-L131 and 1 T-L446.

For I2: We have 1 I-P37.

JerryS.
09-07-2017, 12:06 PM
just so I understand this. if a Calabresi man (Y) and a German woman (X) had a daughter, the daughter would get a Calabresi X and a German X marker, then if that daughter had a son with a German man, that son would get a German Y and a Calabresi X marker? and the German Y marker is what follows to the next son?

Principe
09-07-2017, 12:16 PM
just so I understand this. if a Calabresi man (Y) and a German woman (X) had a daughter, the daughter would get a Calabresi X and a German X marker, then if that daughter had a son with a German man, that son would get a German Y and a Calabresi X marker? and the German Y marker is what follows to the next son?

The daughter would pass down the German X as this is her mtdna, the Calabrese X could get passed down but it would be in the autosomal not her mtdna and the son would pass down the German Y, but will carry the Calabrese Y in the autsomal but the only way to find out his Calabrese Nonno's Y would be through a cousin testing his Y.

eolien
09-07-2017, 01:07 PM
I think this is not totally correct, since the daughter will pass a recombined X to her son (i.e. a mixture of both Xs)

Sikeliot
09-07-2017, 03:25 PM
J2 is lower than in Sicily by quite a bit. I am surprised.

Principe
09-07-2017, 04:35 PM
J2 is lower than in Sicily by quite a bit. I am surprised.

Sample size and bias my friend, many academic papers suggest J2 in Calabria is in the mid 20's, this is based off people who tested on ftdna, to me the biggest surprise is the amount of G at 24%!

vettor
09-07-2017, 06:11 PM
Where did you get your samples from?
and did you read the paper from this chart?
http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/y-chromosome-study-of-italy-brisighelli.html

BTW
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050794

I realise you must be only using modern present day results , but do you think these ancient results have any bearing on the modern

alchemist223
10-16-2020, 04:08 PM
I have confirmed a great-grandparent whose family carried E-V13, and my maternal family very possibly is J-L210.

Paphlagonia
04-21-2021, 10:09 AM
Dear paternal Y-DNA T1a2b Members;

My paternal Y-DNA is also T1a2b. I live in Turkey, and my paternal and maternal origins are from Paphlagonia.
When I read the forum messages I saw that there are T1a2bs from Italy.

1. As I read from the historical sources Enetians of Pahplagonia founded Venetia. Can it explain the shared origin?
https://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsMiddEast/AnatoliaPaphlagonia.htm

2.Bucellarian Theme was created around the middle of the 8th century, comprising most of the ancient region of Paphlagonia and parts of Galatia and Phrygia.The name of the theme derives from the late Roman Bucellarii, elite cavalry troops of Gothic or Roman origin, often found as privately recruited bodyguard troops.(Source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucellarian_Theme)
Paplagonia had been a part of Roman and later East Roman Empire. Roman Empire had legionnaires from different areas. Can this explain the shared origin? (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionary)

3.Most gladiators were purchased from slave markets from every land of Roman Empire. Can this explain the shared origin?

4.Where was our first original grandfather born? And how his sons migrated/or taken to other places?

5.This is the most likely scenario for me: Phoenecians carried Levantine T1a2b while they traveled by their ships towards the Mediterrean and Black Sea costs.

Haplogroub T is emerging as a mutation from K 45-35 000 years ago. Where it occurs: Levante. Levante, in Italian means the place where the sun rises. Italians called the lands east of them as levante. Levantines are a community born in the Middle East in today's sense. Phoenician Levantine sailors colonized and spread wherever they went in their ships. I think the Levantine Phoenician descendants of our Grandfather T were scattered in the Western Mediterranean by sea voyage. Some of them remained in the Middle East.

Our T cousins ​​also went to Europe. They are mostly found in southwestern Europe, although in a small proportion in every European country. They live in Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece and Cyprus in Europe. Their busiest places are Cadiz and Ibiza on the Iberian peninsula in Europe. Paternal T's subgroup T1a2b also points to my closest cousins. They also live in the north east of Italy and in the Eastern Alps.

The most common populations in the Middle East; Syriac community, Jewish Kurdish, Jewish Iranian communities and Sasun Armenians. In other words, we carry the levantine genes mixed with Syriac and Sasun Armenians, too.


Kind Regards


Some Sources:

Afezolli D, Allen BM, Hepworth JE, Andrew JK. Unearthing the Roots of Venice: Relics to DNA. https://core.ac.uk/reader/212968370

Avila C. Exploring the history of venice: Relics, records, and relations.

Reynolds, Beatrice. "Brum And Perotti Present A Greek Historian." Bibliotheque d'humanisme et Renaissance 16, no. 1 (1954): 108-118.

Karpov S. The Black Sea region, before and after the Fourth Crusade. Urbs capta: The Fourth Crusade and its Consequences; La IVe Croisade et ses consequences. 2005:288-9.

Carlson E, Nwaobasi F, Saxena S, Truchanovicius V. Venice: Genesis of the City and its People (Doctoral dissertation, Worcester Polytechnic Institute).

Bartusis MC. The late Byzantine army: arms and society, 1204-1453. University of Pennsylvania Press; 1997.

Paphlagonia
04-24-2021, 02:22 PM
Here is a link and paragraph of a book of Phoenician settlements. As I mentioned above I mostly think that our T1a2b grandparents voyaged everywhere during Phonecian colonisations.

"The further progress of the Phoenician settlements northward into the Propontis and the Euxine is a point whereon different opinions may be entertained. Pronectus, on the Bithynian, and Amastris, on the Paphlagonian coast, have been numbered among the colonies of the Phoenicians by some;[578] while others have gone so far as to ascribe to them the colonisation of the entire countries of Bithynia, Mariandynia, and Paphlagonia.[579] The story of the Argonauts may fairly be held to show[580] that Phoenician enterprise early penetrated into the stormy and inhospitable sea which washes Asia Minor upon the north, and even reached its deepest eastern recess; but it is one thing to sail into seas, and, landing where the natives seem friendly, to traffic with the dwellers on them—*it is quite another thing to attempt a permanent occupation of portions of their coasts. To do so often provokes hostility, and puts a stop to trade instead of encouraging it. The Phoenicians may have been content to draw their native products from the barbarous tribes of Northern Asia Minor and Western Thrace—*nay, even of Southern Scythia—*without risking the collisions that might have followed the establishment of settlements.
As with the Black Sea, so with the Adriatic, the commercial advantages were not sufficient to tempt the Phoenicians to colonise. From Crete and Cythera they sent their gaze afar, and fixed it midway in the Mediterranean, at the western extremity of the eastern basin, on the shores of Sicily, and the vast projection from the coast of North Africa which goes forth to meet them. They knew the harbourless character of the African coast west of Egypt, and the dangers of the Lesser and Greater Syrtes. They knew the fertility of the Tunisian projection, the excellence of its harbours, and the prolificness of the large island that lay directly opposite. "

http://www.bookrags.com/ebooks/2331/53.html#gsc.tab=0

My father's hometown Devrek, whose ancient name is Dadybra (AD 300 - AD 640) acording to the Digital Atlas of the Roman Empire, is on a point between historical Paphlagonia and Mariandynia.


You may read thefollowing links for the history of Mariandynia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariandyni
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0064:entry=mariandyn i-geo
https://pleiades.stoa.org/places/844903



Kind Regards