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MischievousRaven
09-11-2017, 04:19 AM
My mother recently got her Ancestry Results back. She is almost exclusively of German descent (Saxony/Lower Saxony/Hannover), at least as far back as I've been able to trace on both sides of her family (into the 1700s). Her results are the following:

18681

One of the things that surprised me was the estimated 3% Middle Eastern! (And a range of up to 7%!) I, too, got Middle Eastern in my results, at 1%. My father, of predominantly German and Dutch descent, did not have a Middle Eastern result.

Is it typical for people of predominantly northern/western European descent to have trace Middle Eastern results? Do you believe this is just noise, or something that could be legitimate? Any history buffs that might be able to explain this occurrence?

Looking forward to your replies!

L1983
09-11-2017, 05:28 AM
Difficult to tell. I got <1%, my mum got some in the ranges part but no official %. Mum's family are mainly Southern English. I would say if you know your paper Ancestry than you could dismiss it as ancient dna, however there's always a chance of an NPE. My dad gets 4% Iberian (range 0-12%) but I don't know if it's just ancient dna that a lot of English get or I have a Spanish/Portugese ancestor somewhere and I dont have the paper ancestry to prove or disprove. Have you put your mum's results into gedmatch/dnaLand? Does it show up there? What does she get on Eurogenes K13?

sktibo
09-11-2017, 05:41 AM
Looks like a very German result to me. I don't think its unusual for Middle East percentages to show up in Europeans.
You should share the result with Don Felipe who is collecting European Ancestry DNA results from people with a singular ethnic background

MischievousRaven
09-11-2017, 11:54 AM
Thank you for the replies! I have lots of food for thought :)

I have run her DNA through GEDMatch's K13 calculator and MyHeritage. Still need to do DNA.Land. Her K13 and MyHeritage results both included Middle Eastern (West Asian on the K13).

1868518686

Sassoneg
09-11-2017, 12:41 PM
Difficult to tell. I got <1%, my mum got some in the ranges part but no official %. Mum's family are mainly Southern English. I would say if you know your paper Ancestry than you could dismiss it as ancient dna, however there's always a chance of an NPE. My dad gets 4% Iberian (range 0-12%) but I don't know if it's just ancient dna that a lot of English get or I have a Spanish/Portugese ancestor somewhere and I dont have the paper ancestry to prove or disprove. Have you put your mum's results into gedmatch/dnaLand? Does it show up there? What does she get on Eurogenes K13?

Iberian is typical in the AncestryDNA results for British people, with higher amounts coming from Wales. The Isles were populated by a more Iberian like people before the Celts expanded and absorbed them. The higher Iberian in Wales is thought to have been one of their last hold outs due to the terrain, similar to how the Welsh held off the Saxons. The MyHeritage.com tests are really confusing because they usually give Brits 12-15% Iberian and that's just ridiculous. It does underline the pre-Celtic population of the Isles.

I have not seen a lot of Middle Eastern results in British and German kits on Ancestry but I have on LivingDNA. I score 3% near eastern (Kurdish) with no known ancestry from there. I have seen many British results scoring low amounts of Kurd and Chuvash. I also score a bit of Iberian on LivingDNA and I think the same mechanism is in play for both: remnants of old populations. The "middle east" is remnant or a great great grandparent. In those times that our great great grandparents were alive it seems unlikely that a middle eastern would be mixed around in Germany.

Tolan
09-11-2017, 12:51 PM
Thank you for the replies! I have lots of food for thought :)

I have run her DNA through GEDMatch's K13 calculator and MyHeritage. Still need to do DNA.Land. Her K13 and MyHeritage results both included Middle Eastern (West Asian on the K13).

1868518686

Calculator on gedmatch indicates very ancient ancestors: several thousand years back!
So, almost all Europeans have West Asian or East-Med in the results of Eurogenes K13.

It is possible that this is an error of the ancestry DNA program, which detected in your mother a segment of DNA of the Middle East very old, but which should be considered European, for a recent ancestry.

L1983
09-11-2017, 01:00 PM
Thank you for the replies! I have lots of food for thought :)

I have run her DNA through GEDMatch's K13 calculator and MyHeritage. Still need to do DNA.Land. Her K13 and MyHeritage results both included Middle Eastern (West Asian on the K13).

1868518686

I've added mine and my parents my heritage results. As far as we know we are Southern English and my dad has an Irish grandmother. As you can see, my heritage aren't very good! I think in your case, you've got the paper ancestry to be able to dismiss things, but always good to have an open mind.

Mine/dad/mum

Nive1526
09-11-2017, 01:24 PM
The West Asian and East Med on Eurogenes' K13 is actually below the averages For East and West Germans, given from the spreadsheet.
Red_Sea is above average.

I really wonder which ancient populations are behind these results, especially the Oceanian, I get 1.8%.