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Brent.B
09-13-2017, 06:18 PM
I noticed on YFull there is a sample located in Beijing, China.

I'm not sure if it has been discussed somewhere else... but do we know how it got there?

lgmayka
09-13-2017, 08:06 PM
YF10484 was only recently analyzed; his changes to the haplotree will only appear in the next release. He shares 5 SNPs with the Polish YF06604:
FGC66325
FGC66342
FGC66326
FGC66331
FGC66336
Presumably, the next version of the haplotree will place the two men in a new subclade called R-FGC66325.

Ebizur
09-14-2017, 12:54 PM
Members of Y-DNA haplogroups R1b, G1a, and G2a also have appeared in samples of mainstream Chinese people in Beijing:

NA18645 (CHB ) R1b-CTS347
(TMRCA with another member of R-CTS347, YF09877 from the Chechen Republic, and several members of R-BY3295 is estimated to be 4,500 ybp. Both R-CTS347 and R-BY3295 are branches of R-CTS8966, which is one of the less common extant branches of R1b1a1a2a2c-Z2106. R1b1a1a2a2c-Z2106 is perhaps the most prolific subclade of R1b1a1a2a2-Z2103, known for its presence in remains of individuals associated with the archeological Yamnaya culture.)

NA18549 (CHB ) G2a2b2a1a1c1-Z724*(xZ1903)
(This basal branch of G-Z724 is not currently represented on YFull by anyone besides NA18549 of the CHB sample. Its TMRCA with G-Z1903 is estimated to be 8,500 ybp. G-Z1903 appears to be a mainly European clade at present, with an estimated TMRCA of 4,400 ybp. However, the G-Z6028 branch of G-Z1903 contains an individual in Lebanon, a Mende in Sierra Leone, and one other individual of unreported origin with an estimated TMRCA of 3,000 ybp on YFull.)

YCH32 (Han from Beijing) G1a-F1761/F2376/F4297

This member of R1b and this member of G2a belong to rare subclades. The closest patrilineal relative on YFull of the Beijing Han who belongs to R1b-CTS347 has reported an origin in Chechnya.

In contrast, YF10484 from Beijing belongs to R1a-L1029, which, as far as I can tell, is a typical subclade of R1a that has a shallow TMRCA (only 2,000 ybp according to YFull YTree v5.05).

YCH32, who belongs to G1a-F1761/F2376/F4297, is from the sample set of Yan S, Wang C-C, Zheng H-X, Wang W, Qin Z-D, et al. (2014), "Y Chromosomes of 40% Chinese Descend from Three Neolithic Super-Grandfathers," so details of his relationship with other members of haplogroup G1a are unclear to me at present.

kostoffj
09-14-2017, 01:20 PM
How does one know that the L1029 sample from Beijing belongs to someone ethnically Chinese? Is it not possible that he could be a foreigner living in Beijing?

Brent.B
09-14-2017, 02:51 PM
How does one know that the L1029 sample from Beijing belongs to someone ethnically Chinese? Is it not possible that he could be a foreigner living in Beijing?

I was wondering this myself... if the kit owner is ethnically Chinese with no recent ancestry from Europe then I wonder how it would have got there.

lifezard
09-15-2017, 01:48 AM
I noticed on YFull there is a sample located in Beijing, China.

I'm not sure if it has been discussed somewhere else... but do we know how it got there?

Hi, the person is ethnic Hui and native to Beijing, China. He has no known recent ancestry to Europe

Brent.B
09-15-2017, 02:05 AM
Hi, the person is ethnic Hui and native to Beijing, China. He has no known recent ancestry to Europe

Thank you for sharing! This sounds like an interesting kit.

lifezard
09-15-2017, 02:43 AM
Thank you for sharing! This sounds like an interesting kit.

you are welcome, he expected to be more related to the more Asian Z283 before the test came out, so it was a little bit of a surprise too. Anyone knows if there is any way to contact this YF06604 sample by the way?

white2k
09-15-2017, 04:27 AM
Hi there. I am the owner of YF10484.

My family didn't document that where my ancestor came to China and how. As far as I can see, it is quite possible related to Mongol invasion of Poland where some 10,000 Poles were taken with the invaders as slaves (wikipedia: Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Poland). And some of them may migrate to China with Mongol army.

My ancestors seems come to China in the Yuan Dynasty(1271 AD -1368 AD), though I cannot 100% exclude the possibility of earlier migration through Silk Road. The reason of this is that my ancestors was Semu(wikipedia: Semu), a caste established by the Yuan dynasty, and later became Hui in Ming Dynasty. Of the many ethnic groups classified as "Semu" during the Yuan, only the Muslim Hui managed to survive into the Ming period as a large collective identity with self-awareness of common identity spanning across the whole China. Other Semu ethnic groups were forced to assimilate into the Han Chinese or Muslim Huis (such as some Christian and Jewish Semu, though thoroughly Islamized).

According to (wikipedia: Europeans_in_Medieval_China), there seems many possible ways how my ancestors came to China. I would like to emphasize 2 facts.

1. According to (wikipedia:Jesuit_China_missions). By the 16th century, there is no reliable information about any practicing Christians remaining in China. As I pointed out above, it was very likely all Abrahamic religions were thoroughly Islamized and forced to assimilate into Muslim Hui in Ming Dynasty (1368 AD - 1644 AD)

2. For his travels from 1253 to 1255, the Franciscan monk William of Rubruck reported numerous Europeans in Central Asia. He described German prisoners who had been enslaved and forced to mine gold and manufacture iron weapons in the Mongol town of Bolat, near Talas, Kyrgyzstan.In Karakorum, the Mongol capital, he met a Parisian named Guillaume de Buchier, and Pâquette, a woman from the French city of Metz, who had both been captured in Hungary during the Mongol invasions of Europe. He also mentions Hungarians and Russians, and it is also known that 30,000 Alans, a group of Sarmatian tribes, formed the Asud guard of the Mongol court in Beijing.

Michał
09-15-2017, 11:04 AM
you are welcome, he expected to be more related to the more Asian Z283 before the test came out, so it was a little bit of a surprise too. Anyone knows if there is any way to contact this YF06604 sample by the way?
I am one of the admins for the R1a project at FTDNA where YF06604 is a project member, but I cannot reveal his email address to you without his permission. However, you can send me a PM with your email address, so I will ask him to contact you.

As for white2k/YF10484, he can contact sample YF06604 through his SNP matches page in YFull.

Terminus88
11-25-2017, 10:16 PM
Perhaps an ancient from the Tarim basin mixed with them.

Dibran
02-06-2018, 05:19 PM
I had 12 close STR matches on Yfull. They all vanished with the exception of the sample from China. I assume its due to him having the most STRs compared to my own. Doesn't explain why all my matches disappeared. This sample from Beijing seems to be my only STR match at the moment.

white2k
02-26-2018, 08:29 AM
I had 12 close STR matches on Yfull. They all vanished with the exception of the sample from China. I assume its due to him having the most STRs compared to my own. Doesn't explain why all my matches disappeared. This sample from Beijing seems to be my only STR match at the moment.

I have 21 close STR matches on YFull, and I can see the distance between you and me is 0.094 (#9 out of 21 sorted by distance from my side). It's weird that your other matches disappeared, but it could happen, as the close matches always changed.

Dibran
02-27-2018, 07:24 PM
I have 21 close STR matches on YFull, and I can see the distance between you and me is 0.094 (#9 out of 21 sorted by distance from my side). It's weird that your other matches disappeared, but it could happen, as the close matches always changed.

Yea. Perhaps they were false matches. I did recently confirm a closer match. Another Albanian and I seem to form our own "Albanian" Sub-Branch under L1029, due to some sort of founder effect I presume.

Waldemar
04-04-2018, 01:26 PM
https://s14.postimg.org/srkxu5tpd/Screen_Hunter_2314_Apr._04_14.27.jpg
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC66325/

Waldemar
06-27-2019, 03:07 PM
https://i.postimg.cc/kX6yRpk6/Screen-Hunter-2768-Jun-27-16-09.jpg

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC66325/

J1 DYS388=13
06-27-2019, 03:39 PM
Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region is the home of ethnic Chinese Muslims.

Webb
06-27-2019, 03:50 PM
Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region is the home of ethnic Chinese Muslims.

Yes, it is pretty interesting. My wife is Hui from Kaifeng, Henan. She scores around 20% Central Asian. Ningxia isn't too far from Xian, which also has a sizeable Hui population.

Dibran
07-02-2019, 04:45 PM
Was there any records of Slavs/Germans going and settling in China?

Per my understanding the Hui peoples are mainly of mixed, Mongol, Turkic, and Iranian origin. My only guess would be is either some L1029 was assimilated quite early by some Turkic groups, or Slavs/Germans bearing L1029 either joined Turkic tribes as soldiers or were taken as slaves there by the Mongols(can't find anything on that end with how it connects to Hui).

Webb
07-02-2019, 04:56 PM
Was there any records of Slavs/Germans going and settling in China?

Per my understanding the Hui peoples are mainly of mixed, Mongol, Turkic, and Iranian origin. My only guess would be is either some L1029 was assimilated quite early by some Turkic groups, or Slavs/Germans bearing L1029 either joined Turkic tribes as soldiers or were taken as slaves there by the Mongols(can't find anything on that end with how it connects to Hui).

I found this website linking several studies of the Uygur's:

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/uygurs.html

If you scroll down the page there is a list of Haplogroup percentages. R1a appears very high.

Dibran
07-02-2019, 07:58 PM
I found this website linking several studies of the Uygur's:

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/uygurs.html

If you scroll down the page there is a list of Haplogroup percentages. R1a appears very high.

It doesn't mention the clade. Also, I thought the overwhelming majority of Uygur R1a was Z93?

The page doesn't mention the L1029.

Webb
07-02-2019, 08:39 PM
It doesn't mention the clade. Also, I thought the overwhelming majority of Uygur R1a was Z93?

The page doesn't mention the L1029.

I just did a google search of R1a in China and that was the first site that came up.

Waldemar
07-03-2019, 08:52 AM
overwhelming majority of Uygur R1a was Z93

Correct.

Dibran
07-03-2019, 03:52 PM
Correct.

Was there any records of Slavs/Germans going and settling in China?

Per my understanding the Hui peoples are mainly of mixed, Mongol, Turkic, and Iranian origin. My only guess would be is either some L1029 was assimilated quite early by some Turkic groups, or Slavs/Germans bearing L1029 either joined Turkic tribes as soldiers or were taken as slaves there by the Mongols(can't find anything on that end with how it connects to Hui).

Dibran
07-07-2019, 02:52 AM
I just had the second Chinese L1029 added to my SNP matches. I presumably share more snps with the newer Chinese sample. They both appear to be under the same clade.

white2k
07-08-2019, 03:27 AM
Was there any records of Slavs/Germans going and settling in China?

Per my understanding the Hui peoples are mainly of mixed, Mongol, Turkic, and Iranian origin. My only guess would be is either some L1029 was assimilated quite early by some Turkic groups, or Slavs/Germans bearing L1029 either joined Turkic tribes as soldiers or were taken as slaves there by the Mongols(can't find anything on that end with how it connects to Hui).

Yes, there were records of Slavs/Germans going to China in the Mongol Empire period, when Semu caste, a major source of late Hui, was defined to differentiate it from other East Asian ethnic group. There were Muslim, Jewish, Nestorian, Christian, Manichaean, Zoroastrian in the Semu caste but later some of they were Islamized to come into a new group, muslim Hui, in the subsequent Ming dynasty.

According to The Mongol Conquests in World History by Timothy May, there were German/Polish gold miners captured in the battle of Legnica and then transferred to a place near China in 1250s.


After the Mongol victory at Liegnitz over a combined army of Poles, Teutonic Knights and others, a Mongol prince, Büri, took prisoners. Among them was a sizeable contingent of German gold miners. These prisoners of war spent the rest of their lives in central Asia, where they worked on behalf of Büri’s court near Talas, approximately 270 km (170 miles) northeast of modern Tashkent. The Mongol invasions of the Khwarazmian Empire yielded thousands of artisans with technical skills. Although we should not take for granted Rashid al-Din’s assessment that the Mongols moved 100,000 artisans to the lands of the east (bilad-i sharqi), there is little doubt that thousands did move.

A possible scenario that the descendant of these prison miners were Islamized (by marriage) in Central Asia, and then entered into China with Mongol army in 1270s.

YF63963 and YF10484(myself) will form a new subclade under FGC66333, as we share 3 more previously private SNPs. I estimated the TMRCA of these two samples is 600 - 700ybp. The STR distance is 7/484, very close.

Another interesting sample in this batch is YF64015, I1-Y18697*, he is also a Hui from China.

Dibran
07-08-2019, 01:22 PM
Yes, there were records of Slavs/Germans going to China in the Mongol Empire period, when Semu caste, a major source of late Hui, was defined to differentiate it from other East Asian ethnic group. There were Muslim, Jewish, Nestorian, Christian, Manichaean, Zoroastrian in the Semu caste but later some of they were Islamized to come into a new group, muslim Hui, in the subsequent Ming dynasty.

According to The Mongol Conquests in World History by Timothy May, there were German/Polish gold miners captured in the battle of Legnica and then transferred to a place near China in 1250s.


After the Mongol victory at Liegnitz over a combined army of Poles, Teutonic Knights and others, a Mongol prince, Büri, took prisoners. Among them was a sizeable contingent of German gold miners. These prisoners of war spent the rest of their lives in central Asia, where they worked on behalf of Büri’s court near Talas, approximately 270 km (170 miles) northeast of modern Tashkent. The Mongol invasions of the Khwarazmian Empire yielded thousands of artisans with technical skills. Although we should not take for granted Rashid al-Din’s assessment that the Mongols moved 100,000 artisans to the lands of the east (bilad-i sharqi), there is little doubt that thousands did move.

A possible scenario that the descendant of these prison miners were Islamized (by marriage) in Central Asia, and then entered into China with Mongol army in 1270s.

YF63963 and YF10484(myself) will form a new subclade under FGC66333, as we share 3 more previously private SNPs. I estimated the TMRCA of these two samples is 600 - 700ybp. The STR distance is 7/484, very close.

Another interesting sample in this batch is YF64015, I1-Y18697*, he is also a Hui from China.

Interesting. Never heard of that. Also, looks like that TMRCA between you and he roughly lines up with the time-frame of those relocated prisoners/miners/artisans etc.

Waldemar
08-01-2019, 07:43 AM
https://i.postimg.cc/FsXFb4WX/Screen-Hunter-2771-Aug-01-08-46.jpg
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC66325/

leonardo
08-01-2019, 02:13 PM
https://i.postimg.cc/FsXFb4WX/Screen-Hunter-2771-Aug-01-08-46.jpg
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC66325/

Is there a way to tell if this is a separate sample, that is from a man unrelated to the other sample or not possibly the same sample upgrading to Big Y-700? As I mentioned in a another thread, YFull creates another sample number for the Big Y-700 sample which gives the appearance of another male tester when, in reality, it is simply the same person as the original tester.

Waldemar
08-01-2019, 03:05 PM
Is there a way to tell if this is a separate sample

Please read white2k's post above.