PDA

View Full Version : Koçgiri/Qochgiri tribe



Alkaevli
09-17-2017, 12:44 PM
The Koçgiri tribal confederation is centered in Eastern Sivas (mainly the Zara and İmranlı districts), the people of Koçgiri are Alevi Kurds and speak the Kurmanji dialect, but there are also some Zaza-speakers among them.

They trace their origin to Tunceli and Bingöl as far as I know.
http://i.hizliresim.com/Z7O4Vg.png


Is there any DNA result from Koçgiri? Are they similar to other Kurds or is there considerable difference? I've seen an Alevi Kurd result from my father's province (Sivas) but she was from Şadiyan tribe. She is has some northern-shift compared to other Kurds (higher North Europe, lower SW Asian etc), is that the case in Koçgiri too?

Dodecad K12b
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 42.6
2 Gedrosia 23.88
3 Southwest_Asian 11.39
4 North_European 8.97
5 Atlantic_Med 8.53
6 East_Asian 2.14
7 South_Asian 1.91
8 Northwest_African 0.37
9 Siberian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 6.15
2 Kurd (Dodecad) 6.99
3 Iranian (Dodecad) 7.1
4 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 9.29
5 Turks (Behar) 9.39
6 Iranians (Behar) 10.56
7 Turkish (Dodecad) 11.61
8 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 13.89
9 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 13.97
10 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 14.2
11 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 14.47
12 Assyrian (Dodecad) 14.58
13 Armenian (Dodecad) 15.06
14 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 15.73
15 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 17.12
16 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 17.28
17 Armenians (Behar) 17.74
18 Lebanese (Behar) 18.47
19 Lezgins (Behar) 19.36
20 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 20.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.8% Armenian (Dodecad) + 34.2% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.86
2 67.2% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) + 32.8% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.94
3 67.6% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 32.4% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2.97
4 64.1% Kurd (Dodecad) + 35.9% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 3.13
5 63.8% Iranian (Dodecad) + 36.2% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 3.16
6 62.7% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 37.3% Turks (Behar) @ 3.18
7 58.4% Iranian (Dodecad) + 41.6% Turks (Behar) @ 3.42
8 58.9% Kurd (Dodecad) + 41.1% Turks (Behar) @ 3.43
9 85.1% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 14.9% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.59
10 53.4% Turks (Behar) + 46.6% Iranians (Behar) @ 3.6
11 52.6% Iranians (Behar) + 47.4% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 3.63
12 88.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 11.8% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.66
13 83.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 16.1% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 3.77
14 87.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 12.1% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 3.78
15 88.5% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 11.5% Romanians (Behar) @ 3.84
16 82.7% Iranian (Dodecad) + 17.3% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.9
17 83.1% Kurd (Dodecad) + 16.9% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.94
18 84.8% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 15.2% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 3.95
19 68.1% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 31.9% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 4.01
20 87.5% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 12.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 4.05

Eurogenes K13
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 43.13
2 East_Med 26.99
3 West_Med 7.42
4 South_Asian 5.94
5 Baltic 4.88
6 North_Atlantic 4.72
7 Red_Sea 4.41
8 East_Asian 0.97
9 Amerindian 0.82
10 Northeast_African 0.45
11 Siberian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurdish 4.61
2 Azeri 8.11
3 Iranian 8.25
4 Georgian 10.09
5 Armenian 10.3
6 Kumyk 11.26
7 Abhkasian 11.74
8 Georgian_Jewish 12.13
9 Adygei 12.17
10 Turkish 12.47
11 Ossetian 13.98
12 Balkar 14.42
13 North_Ossetian 14.84
14 Assyrian 15.55
15 Kabardin 15.71
16 Lezgin 16.64
17 Chechen 16.72
18 Turkmen 17.7
19 Iranian_Jewish 18.6
20 Kurdish_Jewish 18.81

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.9% Kurdish + 30.1% Georgian @ 1.72
2 74.6% Kurdish + 25.4% Adygei @ 2.13
3 77.3% Kurdish + 22.7% Ossetian @ 2.2
4 78.6% Kurdish + 21.4% North_Ossetian @ 2.32
5 74.3% Kurdish + 25.7% Abhkasian @ 2.33
6 78.9% Kurdish + 21.1% Balkar @ 2.61
7 55.9% Azeri + 44.1% Georgian @ 2.63
8 81.7% Kurdish + 18.3% Chechen @ 2.74
9 80.8% Kurdish + 19.2% Kabardin @ 2.78
10 60% Azeri + 40% Abhkasian @ 2.81
11 55.6% Iranian + 44.4% Georgian @ 2.94
12 82.4% Kurdish + 17.6% Lezgin @ 3
13 75.7% Kurdish + 24.3% Kumyk @ 3.02
14 85% Kurdish + 15% Tabassaran @ 3.18
15 62.6% Armenian + 37.4% Lezgin @ 3.31
16 66% Armenian + 34% Tabassaran @ 3.34
17 60.1% Iranian + 39.9% Abhkasian @ 3.63
18 63% Armenian + 37% Chechen @ 3.84
19 57.6% Ossetian + 42.4% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.1
20 54.9% Armenian + 45.1% Adygei @ 4.25

Lupus82
09-18-2017, 04:09 PM
Check this page. There is haplogroup information with regard to different Kurdish tribes. I do not know whether Kocgiri included or not.

corduene. blogspot .com. tr ( I cannot post links I have to enter a white space between the words.

By the way, your haplogroup is truly interesting. The Haplogroup N is Siberian/East Asian. You are a true ethnic Turk. Were your ancestors part of a Kurdish tribe such as Kocgiri or any other? Because often Turkoman and Kurdish tribes intertwined throughout history.

Magnetic
10-30-2017, 03:50 AM
hi . I think it will be hard for you to find a specific Koçgiri result :D (hopefully you will find them) but I am from Dersim and my mom is from the şadi tribe too and my dad is from hıran tribe so in case you are curious and have an interest to see

my results from the calculators you used :


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 39.47
2 Gedrosia 23.29
3 Southwest_Asian 14.58
4 Atlantic_Med 9.94
5 North_European 6.12
6 South_Asian 2.12
7 East_Asian 1.27
8 Siberian 0.99
9 Northwest_African 0.93
10 Sub_Saharan 0.7
11 Southeast_Asian 0.59

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurd (Dodecad) 6.49
2 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 6.51
3 Iranian (Dodecad) 7.22
4 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 7.69
5 Iranians (Behar) 8.83
6 Turks (Behar) 11.01
7 Turkish (Dodecad) 12.91
8 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 13.49
9 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 13.96
10 Assyrian (Dodecad) 14.01
11 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 14.02
12 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 14.89
13 Lebanese (Behar) 15.42
14 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 15.67
15 Armenian (Dodecad) 16.22
16 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 17.17
17 Syrians (Behar) 17.49
18 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 18.85
19 Druze (HGDP) 18.89
20 Jordanians (Behar) 19.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.5% Kurd (Dodecad) + 19.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 2.02
2 78.9% Kurd (Dodecad) + 21.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.05
3 80% Kurd (Dodecad) + 20% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.11
4 76.9% Iranian (Dodecad) + 23.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.17
5 80.7% Kurd (Dodecad) + 19.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.19
6 81.3% Kurd (Dodecad) + 18.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.24
7 78.6% Iranian (Dodecad) + 21.4% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.34
8 80.6% Kurd (Dodecad) + 19.4% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.4
9 80.6% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 19.4% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.46
10 71.4% Iranians (Behar) + 28.6% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.61
11 79.5% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 20.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.74
12 79.2% Iranian (Dodecad) + 20.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 2.76
13 60.1% Iranians (Behar) + 39.9% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2.85
14 84.5% Kurd (Dodecad) + 15.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.91
15 83.1% Kurd (Dodecad) + 16.9% Greek (Dodecad) @ 2.94
16 80% Iranian (Dodecad) + 20% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.97
17 78.8% Iranian (Dodecad) + 21.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.98
18 79.5% Iranian (Dodecad) + 20.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.98
19 74.7% Iranians (Behar) + 25.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 3.04
20 81.6% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 18.4% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 3.07





Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 36.07
2 East_Med 30.76
3 West_Med 8.28
4 South_Asian 6.82
5 Red_Sea 6.05
6 North_Atlantic 4.62
7 Baltic 2.78
8 Siberian 1.29
9 Sub-Saharan 1.28
10 East_Asian 1.21
11 Amerindian 0.84

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Azeri 4.04
2 Kurdish 4.85
3 Iranian 6.24
4 Armenian 7.52
5 Turkish 7.58
6 Georgian_Jewish 7.92
7 Assyrian 9.87
8 Iranian_Jewish 12.29
9 Kurdish_Jewish 12.78
10 Kumyk 15.64
11 Lebanese_Muslim 15.99
12 Georgian 17
13 Turkmen 17.02
14 Syrian 17.05
15 Adygei 18.25
16 Abhkasian 18.48
17 Balkar 19.41
18 Ossetian 19.83
19 Cyprian 20.28
20 Kabardin 20.68

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.2% Kurdish + 13.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 1.93
2 85.3% Kurdish + 14.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.02
3 85.6% Kurdish + 14.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.09
4 86.5% Kurdish + 13.5% Italian_Jewish @ 2.13
5 67.9% Azeri + 32.1% Armenian @ 2.17
6 86.1% Kurdish + 13.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.22
7 89.8% Kurdish + 10.2% Tunisian @ 2.25
8 82.5% Kurdish + 17.5% Cyprian @ 2.28
9 90.2% Kurdish + 9.8% Algerian @ 2.4
10 85.8% Kurdish + 14.2% South_Italian @ 2.41
11 90.5% Kurdish + 9.5% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.42
12 63.1% Kurdish + 36.9% Turkish @ 2.45
13 86.7% Kurdish + 13.3% Ashkenazi @ 2.46
14 79.1% Kurdish + 20.9% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.47
15 70.3% Azeri + 29.7% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.5
16 80.4% Kurdish + 19.6% Syrian @ 2.58
17 86.4% Kurdish + 13.6% East_Sicilian @ 2.63
18 90.8% Kurdish + 9.2% Moroccan @ 2.63
19 88% Kurdish + 12% West_Sicilian @ 2.65
20 55.8% Iranian + 44.2% Turkish @ 2.74

Rub0os2
11-28-2017, 03:25 PM
kardeş koçgiriliyim kürt falan değiliz asimile olmuş türkmenleriz tonlarca şamanizm kültürü var fenotip olarak bolca turanid görebilirsin

Gurni
01-05-2018, 02:41 AM
The Koçgiri tribal confederation is centered in Eastern Sivas (mainly the Zara and İmranlı districts), the people of Koçgiri are Alevi Kurds and speak the Kurmanji dialect, but there are also some Zaza-speakers among them.

They trace their origin to Tunceli and Bingöl as far as I know.
http://i.hizliresim.com/Z7O4Vg.png


Is there any DNA result from Koçgiri? Are they similar to other Kurds or is there considerable difference? I've seen an Alevi Kurd result from my father's province (Sivas) but she was from Şadiyan tribe. She is has some northern-shift compared to other Kurds (higher North Europe, lower SW Asian etc), is that the case in Koçgiri too?

Dodecad K12b
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 42.6
2 Gedrosia 23.88
3 Southwest_Asian 11.39
4 North_European 8.97
5 Atlantic_Med 8.53
6 East_Asian 2.14
7 South_Asian 1.91
8 Northwest_African 0.37
9 Siberian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 6.15
2 Kurd (Dodecad) 6.99
3 Iranian (Dodecad) 7.1
4 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 9.29
5 Turks (Behar) 9.39
6 Iranians (Behar) 10.56
7 Turkish (Dodecad) 11.61
8 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 13.89
9 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 13.97
10 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 14.2
11 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 14.47
12 Assyrian (Dodecad) 14.58
13 Armenian (Dodecad) 15.06
14 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 15.73
15 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 17.12
16 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 17.28
17 Armenians (Behar) 17.74
18 Lebanese (Behar) 18.47
19 Lezgins (Behar) 19.36
20 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 20.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.8% Armenian (Dodecad) + 34.2% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.86
2 67.2% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) + 32.8% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.94
3 67.6% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 32.4% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2.97
4 64.1% Kurd (Dodecad) + 35.9% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 3.13
5 63.8% Iranian (Dodecad) + 36.2% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 3.16
6 62.7% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 37.3% Turks (Behar) @ 3.18
7 58.4% Iranian (Dodecad) + 41.6% Turks (Behar) @ 3.42
8 58.9% Kurd (Dodecad) + 41.1% Turks (Behar) @ 3.43
9 85.1% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 14.9% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.59
10 53.4% Turks (Behar) + 46.6% Iranians (Behar) @ 3.6
11 52.6% Iranians (Behar) + 47.4% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 3.63
12 88.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 11.8% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.66
13 83.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 16.1% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 3.77
14 87.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 12.1% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 3.78
15 88.5% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 11.5% Romanians (Behar) @ 3.84
16 82.7% Iranian (Dodecad) + 17.3% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.9
17 83.1% Kurd (Dodecad) + 16.9% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.94
18 84.8% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 15.2% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 3.95
19 68.1% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 31.9% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 4.01
20 87.5% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 12.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 4.05

Eurogenes K13
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 43.13
2 East_Med 26.99
3 West_Med 7.42
4 South_Asian 5.94
5 Baltic 4.88
6 North_Atlantic 4.72
7 Red_Sea 4.41
8 East_Asian 0.97
9 Amerindian 0.82
10 Northeast_African 0.45
11 Siberian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurdish 4.61
2 Azeri 8.11
3 Iranian 8.25
4 Georgian 10.09
5 Armenian 10.3
6 Kumyk 11.26
7 Abhkasian 11.74
8 Georgian_Jewish 12.13
9 Adygei 12.17
10 Turkish 12.47
11 Ossetian 13.98
12 Balkar 14.42
13 North_Ossetian 14.84
14 Assyrian 15.55
15 Kabardin 15.71
16 Lezgin 16.64
17 Chechen 16.72
18 Turkmen 17.7
19 Iranian_Jewish 18.6
20 Kurdish_Jewish 18.81

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.9% Kurdish + 30.1% Georgian @ 1.72
2 74.6% Kurdish + 25.4% Adygei @ 2.13
3 77.3% Kurdish + 22.7% Ossetian @ 2.2
4 78.6% Kurdish + 21.4% North_Ossetian @ 2.32
5 74.3% Kurdish + 25.7% Abhkasian @ 2.33
6 78.9% Kurdish + 21.1% Balkar @ 2.61
7 55.9% Azeri + 44.1% Georgian @ 2.63
8 81.7% Kurdish + 18.3% Chechen @ 2.74
9 80.8% Kurdish + 19.2% Kabardin @ 2.78
10 60% Azeri + 40% Abhkasian @ 2.81
11 55.6% Iranian + 44.4% Georgian @ 2.94
12 82.4% Kurdish + 17.6% Lezgin @ 3
13 75.7% Kurdish + 24.3% Kumyk @ 3.02
14 85% Kurdish + 15% Tabassaran @ 3.18
15 62.6% Armenian + 37.4% Lezgin @ 3.31
16 66% Armenian + 34% Tabassaran @ 3.34
17 60.1% Iranian + 39.9% Abhkasian @ 3.63
18 63% Armenian + 37% Chechen @ 3.84
19 57.6% Ossetian + 42.4% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.1
20 54.9% Armenian + 45.1% Adygei @ 4.25

I have seen the results results of Maras Alevis that speak Kurmanji, they are also more North shifted with an average of around 10% North-Euro. Their results looks very similar to Turkish/Turkmen Alevis minus the elevated East Asian/Siberian Ancestry, but still a minor percentage present. Even one of them had Y-DNA N and there were some that had mtDNA C. Then I have seen the results of some Kurmanji speakers from Sivas(but they are originally also from the Maras,Malatya region and they also have the same pattern. If I remember correctly I did see someone of the Kocgiri tribe and it looked pretty much the same as the Maras/Malatya Alevis. Genetically there seems to be a small, but noticeable difference between these Alevis and other Kurds. Alevis pretty much has - slight lesser South asian ancestry, a bit elevated Euro ancestry and a bit EastAsian/Siberian present compared to other Kurds.

As far as I know this can only be said of the Kurmanji speaking Alevis of Sivas-Maras-Malatya-Adiyaman region. I am unsure about other Kurmanji speaking Alevis of other regions more East. Looking at Zaza Alevis results there seems to be a slight difference compared to Kurmanji Alevis.

Just wait for more results to appear, then one could compare much better.

What's interesting is that Kocgiri Alevis and Maras/Malatya Alevis that speak Kurmanji refer to themselves as "Kurmanj" or simply "Alevi" and Sunni Kurds are called "Kurds".

Maybe this could be explained by the phenomena of Alevi Turkmens and Alevi Kurds intermarrying because of shared faith creating a new group, that is the Kurmanji speaking Alevis. This is just a simple theory.

Are you Alevi of the Kocgiri tribe?

Afshar
01-05-2018, 12:58 PM
I have seen the results results of Maras Alevis that speak Kurmanji, they are also more North shifted with an average of around 10% North-Euro. Their results looks very similar to Turkish/Turkmen Alevis minus the elevated East Asian/Siberian Ancestry, but still a minor percentage present. Even one of them had Y-DNA N and there were some that had mtDNA C. Then I have seen the results of some Kurmanji speakers from Sivas(but they are originally also from the Maras,Malatya region and they also have the same pattern. If I remember correctly I did see someone of the Kocgiri tribe and it looked pretty much the same as the Maras/Malatya Alevis. Genetically there seems to be a small, but noticeable difference between these Alevis and other Kurds. Alevis pretty much has - slight lesser South asian ancestry, a bit elevated Euro ancestry and a bit EastAsian/Siberian present compared to other Kurds.

As far as I know this can only be said of the Kurmanji speaking Alevis of Sivas-Maras-Malatya-Adiyaman region. I am unsure about other Kurmanji speaking Alevis of other regions more East. Looking at Zaza Alevis results there seems to be a slight difference compared to Kurmanji Alevis.

Just wait for more results to appear, then one could compare much better.

What's interesting is that Kocgiri Alevis and Maras/Malatya Alevis that speak Kurmanji refer to themselves as "Kurmanj" or simply "Alevi" and Sunni Kurds are called "Kurds".

Maybe this could be explained by the phenomena of Alevi Turkmens and Alevi Kurds intermarrying because of shared faith creating a new group, that is the Kurmanji speaking Alevis. This is just a simple theory.

Are you Alevi of the Kocgiri tribe?

Which clade of N?

Alkaevli
01-05-2018, 04:22 PM
Are you Alevi of the Kocgiri tribe?
No, I'm Sunni Turk.



Even one of them had Y-DNA N.
Can you remember his subclade?

Gurni
01-05-2018, 05:05 PM
.....

Gurni
01-05-2018, 05:05 PM
No, I'm Sunni Turk.


Can you remember his subclade?

He was N*