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sam-iJ-ZS1727
09-18-2017, 10:59 PM
https: //ibb.co/h1NYZQ ( Remove the space after http: to see lpicture)
I tried to understand the origin of the Haplogroup YSC76 and I took results from several DNA groups and compared them:
familytreedna.J1arabproject
familytreedna.J-YSC0000076
familytreedna J-M267
familytreedna.EasternCoast
familytreedna.middle-east
and from some forums
I found a total of 314 results that belong to the 2 main subgroups of the YSC76: FGC15940 and FGC8224.
The Blue colour is for the YSC76 group, the green one is for the main subgroups, the red one is for the groups that split from the main subgroups, the purple one is for the fourth split which have their own subgroups.
Results :
1. The Anglo-Saxon countries, especially Britain, have the highest number of YSC76 individuals. It doesn’t mean that the Haplogroup originated in Britain , but it means that we have more samples from Britain and USA than from any other place in the world.
2. Ashkenazi Jews are an important part of the samples.
3. In the middle east, more samples from the eastern coast than from the western part of the Arabic peninsula or from the Levantine.
4. UAE has 20 Samples that belong to people from the same tribe and cousins. That gives less importance to those samples.
5. East KSA is important because it has 25 samples that belong to people that do not have the same Family name and seem to belong to more than one Tribe. The East coast was of Sumerian influence and had history that goes beyond 5000 years. The Canaanite were believed to have immigrated from this part to the Levantine.
6. Samples from Egypt, Sudan, Chad, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Turkey are the most important in my search for the origin of the YSC76. Almost all those samples belong to a tribe Called Ju’DhAm. This is an Old tribe from Arabia that even the Arab and Muslim historians do not agree on their origin. Some say it came from Yemen and other say it is a North Arabian tribe. Nowadays, people from Judham call themselves Yemeni, but some tribes say they have a Sharif ancestor (Prophet descendants) and deny their link to Judham.
7. 18 Iberian samples are found among the results. That make Iberia one of the significant places of the YSC76 people. YSC76 members from Italy and Maghreb should be of the same origins.

Why do I give more importance to the Egyptian, Sudanese, Jordanian, Lebanese, Syrian and Turkish Samples than I give it to Iberia, for examples?
Because the J1-YSC76 originated somewhere in the region between Mesopotamia, from the north-east, Turkey and Syria in the north, Canaan in the north-west, Arabia in the south and Sinai in the south west.
Why do I give more importance to the Judham tribe?
Because this tribe is related to the ancient middle eastern pre-Islamic history and even pre-Jewish. The tribe Has links to the expansion of Judaism, Christianism and Islam. And the tribe is certainly the main ethnic element of the Edomite, the Nabatean, and perhaps the Moabite and Ammonite kingdoms.
Relation between Judham and Edom:
Phonetic Relation: The name JU’DH’EM and the name E’DOM are really similar in pronunciation. The J in the beginning is the only difference. It should be either due to arabized pronunciation or spelling mistake in the Hebraic Sources.
Geographic Relation: The Judham was well known by Arabs as living in the region south of Palestine, Negev, Southern Jordan, in places like Midian, Aqaba Gulf, Tabuk, Aravah…The same Geographic location than the Edomite.
In the Bible, the concubine of Moses was a Median woman named Qatorah, of Arabic Qenite tribe origin.
The Edomite tribes are prior to Judaism. They are in the region at least 1500 BC. Moses is believed to have lived in around 1200-1300 BC. The tribes of Edom were called ‘’Shosu’’ and ‘’ShaSu’’ by the Ancient Egyptians. They were in conflict with the Egyptians and many expeditions were sent to enslave them. Shasu was synonym of ‘’BEDOUIN’’ in the Egyptian language. The Edomites, of Bedouin origins, built towns, and cultivated many crops, but never forgot their Bedouin origin. There were Three shasu regions according to Egyptians: The Shasu of Edom, Shasu of Leban ( city in Transjordania ) and Shasou of YEHWEH dating in the 14th century BC. That means that YEHWEH was a divinity of some Edomite people before the Hebrews.
The Edomites were considered by the Old Testament as Cousins of the Hebrews, they are sons of Esau, the twin brother of Jacob. Edomite presence in Judea was tolerated and even were considered as Jews after three generations.
Relations between the kingdom of Edom and Judea were peaceful, at the beginning, but ended by the occupation of Edomites of parts of Judea.
Even King Herod was of Edomite origin.
Edomites Survived the Assyrian, Babylonian and Persian invasions, but were beaten by the Nabateans and pushed north and south. Many historians think that the Nabateans Were of the same origin than the Edomites.. The Edomite did not disappear, part of them integrated the Levantine populations like the Jews, the Arameans and an other part took the way of the Bedouins and assimilated to Nabateans, Yemeni tribes, and North Arabic Tribes.
The Judhama tribe lives in the same location than their ancestors 4000 years ago. They were forced by Jordanian Government to leave the Petra historical locations. Sinai tribes and Jordan tribes share the same DNA.
After Islam, Prophet Mohamed Received the emissaries of Judham and called Them ‘’The Fine Brothers of Moses’’. They are considered as the People of Prophet ‘’Shu:aib’’ in the Median City.
Banu Qurayza, Banu Nadir, were two Major Jewish tribes in the Arabic peninsula. They were considered by the Historian Al Ya’cubi as two Ju’dhama tribes converted to Judaism.
Many Jewish sources confirm that as explained Professor ‘’Moshe Gil’’.
facebook/notes/ben-abrahamson/the-offspring-of-the-banu-judham-edomites
The Ju’dham tribes were not only Jewish, some tribes worshipped their pre-Islamic gods and many of them became Christians. The Christian Judhama even faced the Muslim army in many battles with the Ghassanid Christians and many of those tribes joined Constantinople territory after the byzantine defeat, which explains the existence of the Same haplogroup in Turkey.
The great majority of The Judhama tribes converted to Islam. With that new religion, they colonized new territories. The majority of the Judhama YSC76 Samples are from Egypt, where they colonized the East part of the Nile. They certainly lived in the Sinai, but after Islam were no more oppressed by Egypt. Many Ju’dhama tribes went north, to Syria and Lebanon. Arabic Tribes in Sudan, and Chad are mainly of Judham ancestors.
Judham Tribes did not stop in Egypt and Nubia, they travelled to Maghreb, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco. From Tunisia, they sailed for the Muslim colony of Sicily. The main Judhama Tribe that travelled West went to Iberia, in the Andalusian Omayyad Territory. They even had two kingdoms there and two dynasties: Banu Hud, who ruled Saragossa, and Banu Mardanish who ruled Valencia.
Some of Jewish Edomite Ju’dham immigrated to North Africa and Joined Andalusia, an other part went to Mesopotamia, Baghdad and Persia…When the king of Khazar converted to Judaism, he invited the Jews to join his kingdom, he even offered the Rabbinic cast fortune and Gold in order to spread Judaism in khazar territory. It is obvious that a Jewish kingdom attracted the Jews from Baghdad, Arabia, Persia and even Yemen.
After the collapse of the Khazar Kingdom, the jewish population, called Ashkenazi, spread all over eastern Europe, especially Ukraine and Hungaria. They are 85% of the Jews in the world and a minority of them belongs to the J Haplogroups.
The British YSC76 are of mysterious origin. Phoenicians, who were the neighbors of the Edomite tribes, might have brought Edomite blood to many parts of the Mediterranean and Europe. Some Moors and Jews from Andalusia were converted to Christianism and fled to British Isles.
The Edomites are the Judhama tribes, but, from where they come from before living south of Canaan?
The Answer can be found in the numerous Samples from East Arabian Gulf. Places like Qatif, and Bahrain have proofs of civilisation more than 5000 years BC. Those parts were part of the Sumerian and Mesopotamian Kingdoms and influence. Tarut, the island in Al Qatif KSA is believed to be the home land of the Semitic God Astarte ( Ash’Taroot). Canaanite people were living in the region and even Greek historians mentioned that Phoenicians might come from there.
Anyway, the Tribes from east Gulf does not belong to the Judham tribes, but certainly from the same origin, perhaps, from Mesopotamia. The Arab Cousins of the Judhama Tribes are the Azd Tribes, those tribes belong to the J1-Z640 Haplogroup which is brother Haplogroup of the YSC76. The Azd people gave us the Ghassanid Kingdoms and many Ghassanid Tribes were converted to Judaism.
My Haplogroup is J1-ZS1727, and I am from North Africa, Tunisia, ancient Carthage.

sam-iJ-ZS1727
09-25-2017, 11:14 PM
Almost all the samples from the YSC76 in Egypt, Palestine, Sinai, Jordan, Syria, Sudan Belong to The Banu Judham Tribe people. The tribe originated in the same region of the Edomite what makes them the main ''Shasu Edom'' Bedouin tribes that the Ancient Egyptians mentioned. The Northern Edomites had a special Relationship with Canaan and Judea later. They were a part of their population and even edomites after 3 generations of living in Judea were considered as ''Plain Jewish''. It is obvious that the Ashkenazi samples from the YSC76 belong to the Edomite people . After Islam, many Judhama tribes conquered Egypt and Africa, and were part of the kingdoms of Muslim Sicily ( more than 200 years of existence) and Al Andalus ( Iberia) that explains the existence of the samples in western Europe..
The YSC76 Samples found in the Eastern coast of Arabia are less obvious and more fragmented in term of Tribal origin. The eastern part of arabia was Called Bahrain ( including the modern kingdom of Bahrain). and the most powerful Tribe of the Region is Called ''ABD QAIS'' ( the Servant Of ''GOD'' Qais). The samples are fragmented because the region has known 2 Historical Events that changed the tribal Background :
1. The Abd Qais were living in the region called Touhama, south of jordan on the Red Sea, the same region of the Shasu Tribes, judhama tribe and certainly others. After the dismantling of the Nabatean Kingdom ( due to changing Trade routes ), the tribes of Nabatea, who were certainly of idumean origin, created a Confederation of tribes called ''TANUKH'' which includes the tribes of AZD, LAKHM ( Brother tribe of Judham according to ancient arab beliefs), certainly other tribes, and decided to immigrate into Southern Syria ,Irak and east Arabia. The confederation created two kingdoms : Ghassani by the Azd tribe and the Hira by Lakhm tribe. The Abd QAIS inhabited eastern Gulf territory. One of the well known Hira Kings, IMRU'U Al KAIS ( Servant Of Qais ), sent the Abd Qais tribe to colonize Persia. A few years After, the Persian king Shapur II ( called by Arabs, the one with Shoulders, because he Hanged people from their shoulder) surprised the tribe and annihilated it in Persia. He followed them to Eastern Arabia and massacred so many people there.
Abd Qais tribe, once powerfull, became weak and got into confederation with other tribesm
2.The Abd Qais Decided to become CHIAA muslims which was a cruel decision because Sunni mulims won almost all their battles against them and the tribe was weakened again .In Addition, Many abd Qais tribe members consider themselves descendants of ALI and Hussein they forgot their origins.
The link between Abd Qais and the Edomite is their main God QOS ( QAUS ). In the Assyrian and Aramean Sources, QOS (QAUS) was mentioned as edomite names : QOS GABAR ( Almighty QOS ), QOS KABAR ( Great QOS ). QOS was like the BAAL of the Canaanites who call themselves with names that include Baal ( Hanibal, Asdrubal, Baal Shamin...). The Hebrew sources does not mention the edomite names including QOS, they only mention names more judean then edomite.
In Some Nabatean inscriptions, QOS was written in many forms, QAUS, QUSH, QS, QAIS, AL QAIS, QSH...That means that Qais and QOS were the same God with two different prononciations.
The Banu Qais are not the only samples from the eastern Gulf YSC76. Many other tribes, especially the Azd tribe.
The majority of AZD tribe members in the eastern Gulf belong to Z640 Haplogroup, which is considered as the brother of the YSC76 Group.

konian lusitanum
12-01-2019, 07:19 AM
you forgot the Sumerians , they are the ancestors of all that haplogroup

sam-iJ-ZS1727
06-15-2020, 12:04 AM
3800711 samples from cananite jordan and askelon are under YSC76.My theory about an edomite origin was right. Not only jordan kingdoms but a great number of cananites under it.Which makes the bedouins from judham tribe in the region the reel heirs of cananites.

Lupriac
06-16-2020, 01:57 PM
An Aramaean dissemination still seems more likely though, no?

sam-iJ-ZS1727
06-17-2020, 10:40 PM
there is no people calling itself araeman in history. Except 3 inscriptions in assyrian, the word Aram was revived by Bible after Babylonian jewish contact with old inscriptions mentioning ARAM.
There is no inscription calling someone the aramean, but so many inscriptions in the middle east Calling arabs ARABS.
The language called aramean is a west semitic set of dialects that the assyrians grouped in what we call academically ''Imperial aramean'' that gave birth to different other dialects all in Arab towns, Osrohene, Palmyra, Nabatea, hira, Hatra...All those places were called in inscriptions ARABIA.

Ilgar
06-20-2020, 02:56 PM
Obviously YSC076 is not arabic unlike dozens of P58 subclades. Even younger downstream branches of YSCO76 like https://yfull.com/tree/J-ZS5604/ have plenty of jewish people.

hartaisarlag
06-20-2020, 08:22 PM
Obviously YSC076 is not arabic unlike dozens of P58 subclades. Even younger downstream branches of YSCO76 like https://yfull.com/tree/J-ZS5604/ have plenty of jewish people.

Are those Israeli flags not Israeli Arabs?

Agamemnon
06-20-2020, 09:07 PM
An Aramaean dissemination still seems more likely though, no?

YSC76 does seem to have taken part in the earliest Aramean dispersals, so that is something to keep in mind, OTOH it has shown up not only in a dozen samples from Al-Baq'a (these LBA samples are bound to have been Canaanite-speaking nomads) but also in 3 of the IAIII the samples from Beirut (SFI-42, SFI-34 and SFI-44 which were Y3441*, ZS5563* & ZS1711* respectively), so it is better described as broadly NW Semitic for the time being.


Obviously YSC076 is not arabic unlike dozens of P58 subclades. Even younger downstream branches of YSCO76 like https://yfull.com/tree/J-ZS5604/ have plenty of jewish people.

While I concur with you that YSC76 is unlikely to be Arabic, the branch you linked to (ZS5604) definitely is, and the individuals with the Israeli flags are not Jews but Negev Bedouins (a minority of whom identifies as Israeli, for reasons related to national service in the IDF, tribal allegiance, the perception of Palestinian Arab nationalism as a rural-urban phenomenon among others).


there is no people calling itself araeman in history. Except 3 inscriptions in assyrian, the word Aram was revived by Bible after Babylonian jewish contact with old inscriptions mentioning ARAM.
There is no inscription calling someone the aramean, but so many inscriptions in the middle east Calling arabs ARABS.
The language called aramean is a west semitic set of dialects that the assyrians grouped in what we call academically ''Imperial aramean'' that gave birth to different other dialects all in Arab towns, Osrohene, Palmyra, Nabatea, hira, Hatra...All those places were called in inscriptions ARABIA.

Many of the things you've said in this thread are inaccurate, if not outright false (from Jews being a bunch of Khazars to Judham being some long-lost Canaanite tribe, you do seem to have it all upside-down). This however has to be one of the most bizarre claims you've made so far. "Aramean" as a designation first appears in Middle Assyrian texts (dating back to the 11th century BCE) and is tied to earlier groups of pastoralists labeled "aḫlamū" (probably an Akkadian rendition of an Amorite word based on the *ḡ-l-m root, the meaning would be something like "youths"). While the later Aramean monarchs never use "Aramean" as an ethnic label, the Aramaic Sefire Treaties (KAI 222-224) do mention "All Aram" (ˀrm klh) and "Upper and Lower Aram" (ˁly ˀrm wtḥth), so we can safely assume that "Aram" indeed was a geographical area that covered much of modern-day Syria, and in turn that the "Arameans" were its inhabitants.

You seem intent on Arabising the pre-Arab peoples of the Fertile Crescent, you do this by creating confusion between the Iron Age Arameans and later Arab kingdoms that took up Aramaic as their main administrative language (such as the Nabateans and Hatreans, but not the Palmyreneans who were Arameans for the most part). If you keep doing this, I will spare no effort to prove you wrong.

Ilgar
06-21-2020, 06:16 AM
While I concur with you that YSC76 is unlikely to be Arabic, the branch you linked to (ZS5604) definitely is, and the individuals with the Israeli flags are not Jews but Negev Bedouins (a minority of whom identifies as Israeli, for reasons related to national service in the IDF, tribal alliegance, the perception of Palestinian Arab nationalism as a rural-urban phenomenon among others).


I couldn`t find any info about those samples, could you please share information (link if possible) mentioning those samples ethnic identity?

Abu-Assy
06-02-2021, 10:45 PM
http://jewishdna.net/J1-YSC76.html

Abu-Assy
06-02-2021, 10:57 PM
44932

44933


Bene Qedem are coupled with Midian

Translated ((the children of the east))

Bene Qedem are to be identified with nomadic (Arab) tribes that were allotted by Abraham adwelling place in the desert of Transjordan, east of palestine (see attached).


People line's (Y-DNA) is J1-YSC76- BY-66

44948

Israelite_Wolfman
06-08-2021, 07:02 PM
YSC76 does seem to have taken part in the earliest Aramean dispersals, so that is something to keep in mind, OTOH it has shown up not only in a dozen samples from Al-Baq'a (these LBA samples are bound to have been Canaanite-speaking nomads) but also in 3 of the IAIII the samples from Beirut (SFI-42, SFI-34 and SFI-44 which were Y3441*, ZS5563* & ZS1711* respectively), so it is better described as broadly NW Semitic for the time being.



While I concur with you that YSC76 is unlikely to be Arabic, the branch you linked to (ZS5604) definitely is, and the individuals with the Israeli flags are not Jews but Negev Bedouins (a minority of whom identifies as Israeli, for reasons related to national service in the IDF, tribal allegiance, the perception of Palestinian Arab nationalism as a rural-urban phenomenon among others).



Many of the things you've said in this thread are inaccurate, if not outright false (from Jews being a bunch of Khazars to Judham being some long-lost Canaanite tribe, you do seem to have it all upside-down). This however has to be one of the most bizarre claims you've made so far. "Aramean" as a designation first appears in Middle Assyrian texts (dating back to the 11th century BCE) and is tied to earlier groups of pastoralists labeled "aḫlamū" (probably an Akkadian rendition of an Amorite word based on the *ḡ-l-m root, the meaning would be something like "youths"). While the later Aramean monarchs never use "Aramean" as an ethnic label, the Aramaic Sefire Treaties (KAI 222-224) do mention "All Aram" (ˀrm klh) and "Upper and Lower Aram" (ˁly ˀrm wtḥth), so we can safely assume that "Aram" indeed was a geographical area that covered much of modern-day Syria, and in turn that the "Arameans" were its inhabitants.

You seem intent on Arabising the pre-Arab peoples of the Fertile Crescent, you do this by creating confusion between the Iron Age Arameans and later Arab kingdoms that took up Aramaic as their main administrative language (such as the Nabateans and Hatreans, but not the Palmyreneans who were Arameans for the most part). If you keep doing this, I will spare no effort to prove you wrong.

👏🏻
You are correct.