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greerpalmer
09-21-2017, 06:12 PM
Hello,

Ancestry's customer service agents aren't necessarily equipped to answer question about population sets so I figured I'd ask the group. A fairly common topic, but I have not seen it directly addressed: what about Ancestry's reference populations give so many European testers inflated Scandinavian numbers? I would love to hear everybody's insight.

I see from Don Felipe's work that Central/West Europeans and British Isles score around 10-20% Scandinavian admix. Mine came in pretty significant at 33%.

In contrast, other services show me like as
2.5% 23andme speculative
1.8% livingDNA complete
5.0% FamilyTreeDNA kit 1
0.0% FamilyTreeDNA kit 2
0.0% MyHeritage 3 kits

Even the low end of my confidence range is higher @ 10% with 54% being the high end.

sktibo
09-21-2017, 06:30 PM
My thoughts are that Ancestry DNA has a large Danish population for it's Scandinavian reference and from my experimenting with nMonte and K36 I found that including Danish mucked things up a bit when I was trying to keep it to the less mixed European populations. I don't know much about Denmark, but I'm assuming the proximity (southernmost Scandinavian nation) means that it is more mixed than say Norway or Sweden. There also appears to be some Celtic cultural influence in Iron Age Denmark, perhaps an indication of some more mixing going on relative to the areas further north?
So, I think that Denmark is a more historically mixed Scandinavian Nation
Ancestry DNA has a fairly large part of its Scandinavian reference group being comprised of Danish samples
People who might not get Scandinavian ordinarily might match with some Danish references who have more ethnic mixture compared to other Scandinavians, resulting in higher Scandinavian percentages than on other tests

It's a theory anyhow

Nqp15hhu
09-21-2017, 06:33 PM
I'm Northern Irish and have less than 1% Scandinavia, although I don't have much of a mix outside the British Isles.

JFWinstone
09-21-2017, 06:49 PM
I'm 3/4 Euro and 1/4 non Euro and mine seems rather inflated.

AncestryDNA - 19% (range 0%-38%)
23andme - 4%
FTDNA - 38%
Myheritage - 20.7%

Amerijoe
09-21-2017, 08:00 PM
Iíve included the average breakdown of Ireland & Scotland as stated by the National Geographic Project.

18912

Here is my Scandinavian results per testing company.

Ancestry - 0%
23andMe - 1.4%
FTDNA - 0%
MyHeritage - 0%
Livingdna - 4.6%

This places me well below the British Isles averages for Scandinavian. No idea why it falls outside stated parameters, other than Iím a little low on Viking. :)

Sassoneg
09-21-2017, 08:25 PM
The Scandinavian ancestry for my family on Ancestry.com is spot on.

The crazy outlier for me is MyHeritage who reported 32%. I uploaded another test and got 36% Scandinavian. On paper I'm 6.25% and probably pick up a few % from general British population.

On MyHeritage the rest of my family got 0% Scandi, including my father who is 12.5% on paper.....

kostoffj
09-21-2017, 08:40 PM
There seems something to this. In my example, I have in real life: zero Scandinavian ancestors.

Ancestry says: 35% Scandinavian (to be fair Family Tree says: 42%). 23andMe: 6%. If you crossed out Scandinavian in my Ancestry result and wrote in Irish, that's be pretty close to correct but Ancestry has me at 2% Irish.

timberwolf
09-21-2017, 09:06 PM
Ancestry 14%
Family tree DNA 10%
23andme 0.1%
My Heritage Kit 1 11.5%
My Heritage kit 2 12%
Living DNA 0%

Genealogical paper trail 0%

greerpalmer
09-21-2017, 10:13 PM
My thoughts are that Ancestry DNA has a large Danish population for it's Scandinavian reference

To be fair, I don't discount that I may have a large Scandinavian piece, as one of my great grandparents' family came from between Bremen and Husum, Germany, well into Historical Danish territory. I just think its odd that ancestryDNA would pick up if others don't. I also went into my test knowing from others that Scandinavian may be inflated and sure enough it was.

My father, of the family mentioned above, does test high for Scandinavian: 29% on FamilyTreeDNA, 41% on myHeritage. He does consistently score high in Finland/Baltic as well which makes more sense with his Prussian ancestry. We'll see what 23andme says.

FionnSneachta
09-21-2017, 10:35 PM
I can't say that I have much of a Scandinavian bias. As an Irish person I get:
<1% Scandinavian on Ancestry
1.8% on Living DNA
I don't get any on MyHeritage or FTDNA.
I have no known Scandinavian ancestry.

I don't think that National Geographic averages really correlates with results seen from Irish people. Their algorithm may be different though and I could get a higher Scandinavian with them but I don't think that it can really be compared with Ancestry results. According to Ancestry, only 13% of Irish people get a percentage from Scandinavia. 23% get Great Britain. I'm one of the 1% that gets Finland/Northwest Russia. The average Irish percentage for an Irish person is 95%. In comparison, 45% of Great British people get Scandinavian and on average get 60% Great British.

18916

mwauthy
09-21-2017, 11:19 PM
Another reason might be that Ancestry analyzes DNA segments from farther back in time "thousands of years" as opposed to other companies looking at more recent ancestry. As a result Danish Viking migrations to places like Normandy France or Danelaw England over 1000 years ago might not register for the other companies. Here are my results. I'm half French Canadian and many of them migrated from Normandy France. According to Don Felipe's research the average Quebecois scores significantly more Scandinavian than the average French person.

Ancestry 13%
Natgeo 2%
FTDNA 0%
23andMe 0%
Myheritage 0%

firemonkey
09-21-2017, 11:44 PM
FTDNA 6%
23andMe 4.8%
Ancestry 23%
My heritage(23) 11.5%
My heritage (Anc) 14.3%
My heritage (Ftdna) 8.7%
Living dna 0%

The only ancestors I know that possibly have Scandinavian origins are my Flett ancestors .

Nqp15hhu
09-21-2017, 11:53 PM
I can't say that I have much of a Scandinavian bias. As an Irish person I get:
<1% Scandinavian on Ancestry
1.8% on Living DNA
I don't get any on MyHeritage or FTDNA.
I have no known Scandinavian ancestry.

I don't think that National Geographic averages really correlates with results seen from Irish people. Their algorithm may be different though and I could get a higher Scandinavian with them but I don't think that it can really be compared with Ancestry results. According to Ancestry, only 13% of Irish people get a percentage from Scandinavia. 23% get Great Britain. I'm one of the 1% that gets Finland/Northwest Russia. The average Irish percentage for an Irish person is 95%. In comparison, 45% of Great British people get Scandinavian and on average get 60% Great British.

18916

I guess I'm unique with my 3% European East and 1% European Jewish as a person from the island of Ireland!

sktibo
09-22-2017, 12:16 AM
I guess I'm unique with my 3% European East and 1% European Jewish as a person from the island of Ireland!

Jessie also has 3% Europe East and 1% European Jewish

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11572-AncestryDNA-results-from-across-Europe

post #4

I think results like that could be fairly standard for Irish testers


On the topic of Ancestry and Scandinavian,

I get 0% at FTDNA
0% at 23andme
0% at Geno 2.0 NG
3% at Ancestry DNA
7.2% Living DNA complete mode

Therefore I think Ancestry has a bit of a Scandinavian bias, as it assigned me some while the other three I've listed correctly assigned me zero.

Nqp15hhu
09-22-2017, 12:28 AM
Similar, except the additional 3% Irish went to provide 5% Europe West for me.

etripp17
09-22-2017, 12:52 AM
I've found that Ancestry's Scandinavian estimates seemed unusually high for me compared to both ftdna and 23andme.

mwauthy
09-22-2017, 01:58 AM
I've found that Ancestry's Scandinavian estimates seemed unusually high for me compared to both ftdna and 23andme.

23andMe is not a good comparison because a lot of potential Scandinavian gets tossed in the broadly northwestern European category.

Oddly enough I have a friend who only received 3% on Ancestry and 26% on FTDNA.

Teutorigos
09-22-2017, 02:38 AM
I have no Scandinavian ancestors but have Irish, German, British, small amount of French ancestry and I always just figured the Scandinavian ancestry, that AncestryDNA reports, were from my British Isles and maybe German side.

Anyway,

AncestryDNA has me at 6% Scandinavian :

I haven't tested with other commercial vendors, at least not yet, but the crazy outlier seems to be Myheritage (uploaded raw data) which has my Scandinavian ancestry at 22.5%.

JMcB
09-22-2017, 03:15 AM
Therefore I think Ancestry has a bit of a Scandinavian bias, as it assigned me some while the other three I've listed correctly assigned me zero.

Yes, I would agree. They assigned me 16% and I have no known Scandinavian ancestry. LDNA gave me 4.4% but I believe that's really my German ancestry, which aligns with what they say in their notes on Scandinavia. FTDNA didn't give me any Scandinavian.

On the other hand, if their test results really date back to "thousands of years ago," then I can make some sense out of it. As my paternal Haplogroup is Scandinavian & Germanic in origins and I have some SNP matches from Sweden and Norway that date back to that time period.

Nevertheless, I am skeptical.

Amerijoe
09-22-2017, 03:27 AM
Here are the timeframes.

18919

timberwolf
09-22-2017, 04:56 AM
Here are the timeframes.

18919

Very interesting.

23andme seems to be the only company that is within a genealogical time frame.

I got 0.1 Scandinavian on their test, which is apart from LDNA, is my lowest score.

FionnSneachta
09-22-2017, 10:33 AM
Jessie also has 3% Europe East and 1% European Jewish

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11572-AncestryDNA-results-from-across-Europe

post #4

I think results like that could be fairly standard for Irish testers

I don't think that it is that standard actually. I remember when an Ancestry representative was on the Late Late Show in Ireland and they were discussing Ryan Tubridy's results, it was commented that European East was unusual for an Irish person. Ryan said that there was actually a family story going back to Eastern Europe so he wasn't surprised by it. In comparison, there was no surprise when other testers got Scandinavian.

Like that, I don't think that European Jewish would be a common result to get since there was never a large Jewish population in Ireland. There were only about 3,500 Jews in Ireland in 1901 and they would have mainly been confined to the cities. In Connacht there were only 15 Jews in 1901.

Nqp15hhu
09-22-2017, 11:47 AM
Is there a way of working out if my Jewish is genuine and where it came from?

mwauthy
09-22-2017, 12:41 PM
Here are the timeframes.

18919

I don't think these time frames are that relevant and it just comes down to associating certain snps with certain reference groups. I don't think these companies use ancient samples to influence their algorithms but rather use modern samples.

I think Natgeo says 10,000 years to present but based on historical migrations and my Geneplaza Neolithic calculator that doesn't seem possible. Also, FTDNA used to run the samples for Natgeo making both results very similar despite the 8,000 year difference.

23andMe says 300 years but that is also suspect in my opinion. I'm 50% French Canadian and 50% Wallonian Belgium. On paper all my ancestors have French surnames for the past 300 years. Yet they assign me 23.4% British and Irish. If that were true it would have been from more ancient migrations and similarities. Plus, they assign me 10.8% Southern Europe which I think would correlate to more distant Roman influence.

23andMe according to their map lists all of France including Corsica as northwestern European. I think France south of the Loire river is genetically more Mediterranean than north of the Loire. Furthermore, they only assign French and German 8% of the time when its present according to their "white" paper so how reliable can that be?

msmarjoribanks
09-22-2017, 12:46 PM
I never really thought about it before, but I'm 1/8 Swedish from known ancestry and get 28% on Ancestry. (Also 42% Europe West, 19% Ireland, 4% Great Britain, 3%/2% Greece/Italy and Iberian) -- known ancestry is mostly mixed English/Welsh/Irish/Scottish, German, and a tiny bit of French in addition to the known Swedish.

So yes, probably some overestimating of the Scandinavian.

MyHeritage gives me 7.5% Scandinavian, 1.5% Finnish.

FamilyTreeDNA gives me 0% Scandinavian, 83% British Isles, 14% Eastern Europe, which seems the most off.

My dad (mostly British Isles) gets 75% British Isles, 4% Scandinavian on FTDNA (but when they first did it he was really high Scandinavian, they changed it), and my mom (25% Swedish, so far as I know) gets 15% Scandinavian on FTDNA and around 45% British Isles. Something about the mix sent all my Scandinavian to British Isles, it seems.

FionnSneachta
09-22-2017, 01:11 PM
Is there a way of working out if my Jewish is genuine and where it came from?

Since it's only 1% it would be very far back. Then again if we have 128 different 5th great grandparents it could go back to the early 1700s. Then Ancestry claims it goes back 1000 years so I don't know. Even if you had a match on Ancestry or GEDmatch that was completely Jewish, the shared ancestors would be too far back to identify. You might be able to figure out if it's genuine if it came up with other tests or like that if you had a match that was completely Jewish. It's hard enough to determine if these traces are real. I know if I had Jewish ancestry come up, I'd be interested to know if it's real and where it came from too but I'm not sure how likely you are to know for certain.

ollie444
09-22-2017, 01:20 PM
Ancestry give me 28% Scandinavian. I have no known Scandinavian ancestry. Living DNA, who sometimes dish out a bit of Scandinavian, correctly give me 100% British Isles.

FionnSneachta
09-22-2017, 01:37 PM
Is there a way of working out if my Jewish is genuine and where it came from?

Another thing to add. I was just looking through my own matches. I have a match at a distance of 4.7 on GEDmatch. All of their ancestry on their GEDcom is from Russia, Latvia and the Ukraine which might be where my Finland/Northwest Russian comes from. It's an idea to try anyway.

Nqp15hhu
09-22-2017, 01:50 PM
Another thing to add. I was just looking through my own matches. I have a match at a distance of 4.7 on GEDmatch. All of their ancestry on their GEDcom is from Russia, Latvia and the Ukraine which might be where my Finland/Northwest Russian comes from. It's an idea to try anyway.

Replying here.

How did you find this ancestor? I have thousands of matches.

Just by going back by generation? So would I need to find a 5th Cousin?

FionnSneachta
09-22-2017, 01:59 PM
Replying here.

How did you find this ancestor? I have thousands of matches.

Just by going back by generation? So would I need to find a 5th Cousin?

An email had a few GEDmatches linked to emails and I had clicked on the wrong one so that was wrong. It still stands though. Not that many have GEDcoms attached so just go down through and you might see something if you click on their pedigrees. I wouldn't pass much notice to matches that have ancestors just born in America because they could be from anywhere in the world. If the ancestors are all from specific locations such as if someone had ancestry just from Italy, then that could indicate that you have an Italian ancestor. You might find nothing of interest but it's worth a shot at least.

Just going to edit this since I don't want to completely hijack the thread. I've come across a proper example this time (checked if the names of the DNA match and person at start of pedigree matched this time). At a distance of 5 on GEDmatch, there's a match that has only ancestors from Britain. This either means that the match has an Irish ancestor further back that she doesn't know about or else I have a British ancestor further back that I don't know about. She doesn't match with my paternal aunt, indicating that it's on my mum's side which matches with the ethnicity estimate since I'm 2% GB while my aunt's <1%.

sktibo
09-22-2017, 05:37 PM
I don't think that it is that standard actually. I remember when an Ancestry representative was on the Late Late Show in Ireland and they were discussing Ryan Tubridy's results, it was commented that European East was unusual for an Irish person. Ryan said that there was actually a family story going back to Eastern Europe so he wasn't surprised by it. In comparison, there was no surprise when other testers got Scandinavian.

Like that, I don't think that European Jewish would be a common result to get since there was never a large Jewish population in Ireland. There were only about 3,500 Jews in Ireland in 1901 and they would have mainly been confined to the cities. In Connacht there were only 15 Jews in 1901.

I don't think the Jewish or Eastern European that we see in Jessie or Npq's results are actually that, I think it's how the DNA expresses itself on their test - Steppe ancestry hangover for the Eastern, but I'm not sure what to categorize the European Jewish as. As far as I know, it's more or less Middle Eastern DNA (Jewish DNA experts feel free to step in here, because I'm not sure) so it might be that it's Neolithic DNA expressing itself in that category. Lots of people are assigned Jewish percentages on these tests who don't actually have Jewish ancestry.
Looking over the Ireland samples that Don Felipe has collected, only one of them does not have a Europe East percentage. Looking at the small amount of data here it appears very normal for Irish testers to get trace Eastern Europe.
I have <1% Polynesia but that does not mean I have Polynesian ancestry, it's an imperfect test, like all of them are at this point.

FionnSneachta
09-22-2017, 06:13 PM
I don't think the Jewish or Eastern European that we see in Jessie or Npq's results are actually that, I think it's how the DNA expresses itself on their test - Steppe ancestry hangover for the Eastern, but I'm not sure what to categorize the European Jewish as. As far as I know, it's more or less Middle Eastern DNA (Jewish DNA experts feel free to step in here, because I'm not sure) so it might be that it's Neolithic DNA expressing itself in that category. Lots of people are assigned Jewish percentages on these tests who don't actually have Jewish ancestry.
Looking over the Ireland samples that Don Felipe has collected, only one of them does not have a Europe East percentage. Looking at the small amount of data here it appears very normal for Irish testers to get trace Eastern Europe.
I have <1% Polynesia but that does not mean I have Polynesian ancestry, it's an imperfect test, like all of them are at this point.

Yes I know that those trace regions aren't always accurate just like the high percentages of Scandinavian for certain people aren't accurately representative. It's just that I don't think that it's common for people in Ireland to get European Jewish. I have to admit that I was surprised that the Ancestry representative did make a big deal about the Europe East since it's not even that far away from Scandinavia and like that there have been a few with that region. I do find the European Jewish more unusual though since very few of my matches have it.

I was going through my matches' GEDcoms. I came across seven matches purely from Great Britain. One had ancestry all from Suffolk and one was purely from Scotland. I came across two odd matches though. The first one matches my paternal aunt and I at generation distance 5.1 but all of their ancestry comes from Prussia. This matches with the GEDmatch calculator which has the top result as Southwest Finnish and the second result is south Polish. This person's ancestry goes back to the early 1800s on most lines with some back to the late 1700s.

The second doesn't match my aunt so I'm guessing that it's on my mum's side with a generation distance 5.3. This person's ancestry goes back to the mid to late 1800s with their ancestry in Poland and Austria. Ukraine is at the top followed by South Polish and then Polish on the calculator. Irish isn't suggested as a population mix with either. I'm not sure if I have an Irish relative on both sides that just wandered over there or if I'm descended from someone from the east. It doesn't match exactly with my ethnicities but it's in the right direction anyway. Interesting but it took long enough to go through them. There wasn't one GEDcom though that I knew exactly where the connection was.

leo76
09-22-2017, 07:27 PM
People who might not get Scandinavian ordinarily might match with some Danish references who have more ethnic mixture compared to other Scandinavians, resulting in higher Scandinavian percentages than on other tests


This strikes me as fairly plausible. I've never tested with Ancestry, but in testing with Geno 2.0+, I got a Scandinavian admix of 20%. I have precisely ZERO Scandinavian ancestors, so at most that figure should have been somewhere around the British reference population's "background" level of about 12%. (Most of my paternal ancestors are English.)


But I have some significant French and German ancestry on my maternal side as well, and in fact those Continental admixes were so high that Geno 2.0+ matched me most closely with German and Dutch reference populations, rather than British. So those German and Dutch reference groups they have are probably "artificially" inflating my Scandinavian admixture.

Stephen1986
09-22-2017, 07:54 PM
For my and my brother -

Myself

Ancestry - 7% (range of 0-23%)
23andMe - 1.9%
FTDNA - 13% for 23andMe data, 2% for my AncestryDNA data

My brother

23andMe - 0.9%

FionnSneachta
09-22-2017, 08:50 PM
For my and my brother -

Myself

Ancestry - 7% (range of 0-23%)
23andMe - 1.9%
FTDNA - 13% for 23andMe data, 2% for my AncestryDNA data

My brother

23andMe - 0.9%

It's interesting that they give some people a very wide range for Scandinavian. Mine was only 0-4% and Finland was the same for me. I know for larger percentages it would be wider but 0% and 23% is quite a difference. It's saying you either have none or you're a quarter Scandinavian.

ollie444
09-22-2017, 08:54 PM
It's interesting that they give some people a very wide range for Scandinavian. Mine was only 0-4% and Finland was the same for me. I know for larger percentages it would be wider but 0% and 23% is quite a difference. It's saying you either have none or you're a quarter Scandinavian.

I go from 13-42%. Good to know I could be almost half Scandinavian!!

0-31% on my Europe West, 10-41% on Ireland and 3-53% Great Britain. I guess British DNA is just such a mash up, it could be any mixture of the previous.

firemonkey
09-22-2017, 09:11 PM
On Ancestry my Scandinavian range was 3-44%

Trixster
09-22-2017, 09:23 PM
Hello,

Ancestry's customer service agents aren't necessarily equipped to answer question about population sets so I figured I'd ask the group. A fairly common topic, but I have not seen it directly addressed: what about Ancestry's reference populations give so many European testers inflated Scandinavian numbers? I would love to hear everybody's insight.

I see from Don Felipe's work that Central/West Europeans and British Isles score around 10-20% Scandinavian admix. Mine came in pretty significant at 33%.

In contrast, other services show me like as
2.5% 23andme speculative
1.8% livingDNA complete
5.0% FamilyTreeDNA kit 1
0.0% FamilyTreeDNA kit 2
0.0% MyHeritage 3 kits

Even the low end of my confidence range is higher @ 10% with 54% being the high end.

I was given 13% Scandinavian on my first MH report. It dropped to 0% once they upgraded in July. I am also now 12.5% Central American as opposed to my original 10%. Also had a few other changes.

I tested my family (mom, dad, youngest child) after their upgrade. None of us have any Scandinavian. (it crossed my mind that somehow Scandinavians could have ended up I Spain and I did have a maternal G grandfather with light hair and blue eyes). I am not testing with any other companies (for my personal knowledge, I don't really want to spend the money)

jjensen6
09-23-2017, 08:14 AM
I came up with 21% Scandinavia on Ancestry with a range of 0-46%. So apparently, I go from none to about half. With Ancestry raw data uploaded to MyHeritage, I get 12.7% and with my own sample with MyHeritage, I get 9.6% (0.95 beta) and 0% with the old test (though the differences between the two versions are so crazy for me that I don't know what to think about them).

Edit:Forgot to say, at FTDNA (with uploaded Ancestry raw data) I come out as 0% Scandinavian but have a way higher East Europe score than with anywhere else.

At the moment, my ancestry seems to be going more towards the Netherlands/Belgium, with a good chunk of Italian, and some Lithiuanian (GC's on Ancestry, nMonte, etc.).

I have had some Norweigen/Swedish come up on some oracles, so I'm really not sure. Viking raiders can only account for so much.....

firemonkey
09-23-2017, 01:47 PM
With nMonte: punt 13-Norwegian 72.8, Dodecad 12 -Norwegian 14.35 , Eurogenes 15- West Norwegian 7.5, Eurogenes 13- Norwegian 15.9 , Eurogenes J test- No 1.7 .

geebee
09-23-2017, 03:36 PM
I came up with 21% Scandinavia on Ancestry with a range of 0-46%. So apparently, I go from none to about half. With Ancestry raw data uploaded to MyHeritage, I get 12.7% and with my own sample with MyHeritage, I get 9.6% (0.95 beta) and 0% with the old test (though the differences between the two versions are so crazy for me that I don't know what to think about them).

Edit:Forgot to say, at FTDNA (with uploaded Ancestry raw data) I come out as 0% Scandinavian but have a way higher East Europe score than with anywhere else.

At the moment, my ancestry seems to be going more towards the Netherlands/Belgium, with a good chunk of Italian, and some Lithiuanian (GC's on Ancestry, nMonte, etc.).

I have had some Norweigen/Swedish come up on some oracles, so I'm really not sure. Viking raiders can only account for so much.....

Well, although the Scandinavian tests as "none to half", keep in mind that this likely means that something else is similar enough that when Scandinavian is low, it likely is high. Not that it necessarily has to be just one component, of course.

But I would look particularly at the ranges for Europe West, Finland/Northwest Russia, Great Britain, and perhaps Ireland. I'm basing this on what Ancestry itself says about the "Scandinavia region":

The "typical native" of the region doesn't test as 100% Scandinavia, but as 84%


27% show some amount of Europe West
25% show some amount of Finland/Northwest Russia
24% show some amount of Great Britain
17% show some amount of Ireland
11% show some amount of Europe East


The term "typical native" is not mine, but Ancestry's, and it's based on Ancestry's reference panel, which "includes 272 DNA samples from individuals who are from the Scandinavia region and whose family history suggests they have a long history in the Scandinavia region."

In other words, the other regions that appear in the "typical native" don't represent recent admixture. Ancestry still presumes it represents admixture in some way, but more distant admixture. (Hence, why they say that this part of their analysis goes back "thousands" of years.)

My guess is that there's actually more to it than that, and that the algorithm has some difficulty in distinguishing between some of these components in the first place. Also, remember that each time the test is run, it uses a somewhat different division of your genome into "blocks".

Here's an important thing to remember: all of your nuclear DNA is found on chromosomes and represents segments passed on to you by specific ancestors. Therefore, your "ethnicities" should logically also consist of segments passed on by these same ancestors.

In other words it isn't just a matter of percentages. That's one reason I prefer 23andMe's analysis to Ancestry's. With 23andMe, you have at least the possibility of correlating segments shown in Ancestry Composition with specific ancestors. You can compare your the segments you share with DNA Relatives to the segments shown in Ancestry Composition. (This is true, at least, if you're also sharing Ancestry reports.)

For example, I have a 3rd cousin with whom I share a Native American ancestor several generations back. This cousin and I share more than one segment, but one of them is located near the end of chromosome 15. At this same location, both of us show a Native American segment in Ancestry Composition. While this certainly isn't proof that our common Native American ancestor is the source of this segment, it's entirely plausible that she is.

Obviously, when you're just given percentages, there's no way to do this sort. You can see which of your cousins may share your ethnicities, but that's it. [You can, however, make use of the "shared relatives" feature to see how what ancestries the shared relatives have in common.]

Unfortunately, there's no way Ancestry could show you "ethnicity segments", even if they were willing to provide any sort of chromosome browser -- even if they did so purely for ethnicity. That's because of how they determine your score for each ancestry. It doesn't derive from a single test, but from the average for that ancestry over 40 runs of the test. While this might be legitimate if each result was actually independent of the results for other ancestries, it isn't. It's doubtful that you ever had one run in which every individual score was at its average. And possibly, not even one run in which every score was near it's average.

Essentially, what Ancestry is attempting with these different divisions of your genome into blocks of varying sizes is to find a division which comes close to the actual division for given ancestries -- that is, to create "segments" which mimic the segments passed on to you by ancestors of that ethnicity. Or at least, that's the effect.

(Theoretically, they could probably try to correlate the actual shared segments of people in Genetic Communities with the regions those communities represent -- at least in some cases. Scandinavia could be a possibility, for example, since there is both a Scandinavia region and a Scandinavia genetic community. Possibly they already do, to some extent.)

Jessie
09-23-2017, 09:25 PM
I don't think that it is that standard actually. I remember when an Ancestry representative was on the Late Late Show in Ireland and they were discussing Ryan Tubridy's results, it was commented that European East was unusual for an Irish person. Ryan said that there was actually a family story going back to Eastern Europe so he wasn't surprised by it. In comparison, there was no surprise when other testers got Scandinavian.

Like that, I don't think that European Jewish would be a common result to get since there was never a large Jewish population in Ireland. There were only about 3,500 Jews in Ireland in 1901 and they would have mainly been confined to the cities. In Connacht there were only 15 Jews in 1901.

According to Ancestry 2% of Irish get Eastern Europe. European Jewish doesn't even register so it is unusual.

Amerijoe
09-23-2017, 09:43 PM
The listings below are as follows, Ancestry 0%, 23andMe 1.4%, Livingdna 4.6%. The percentages indicates results for Scandinavian.
Chromosome 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22


Fennoscandian

13.8

12.1

14.2

-

18.3

6.6

-

10.8

2.2

4.4

9.1

9.3

-

13.6

-

14.6

-

-

9.1

2.4

-

-




Fennoscandian

14.8

11.5

15.1

-

12.9

9.4

2.1

7.9

1.1

1.0

8.7

7.0

2.4

17.5

-

12.1

-

-

14.2

4.7

4.2

-




Fennoscandian

9.7

8.9

13.1

-

26.5

4.9

8.1

9.1

7.4

1.6

13.6

1.9

9.3

18.6

11.8

20.7

-

4.7

-

12.8

-

-



Chromosome coverage, Ancestry 14/22 Fenno. 23andMe 17/22 Fenno. Livingdna 17/22 Fenno. Livingdna indicates higher Fenno chromosome amounts which translate into the 4.6% Scandinavian. The balance of the Fenno. must come from Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland or Iceland. Some Gedmatch calcs. show them in their results, even get Saami in some. Used Eurogenes K36 for chromosome proportions.
.

geebee
09-23-2017, 09:59 PM
It might be helpful to look at what Ancestry says in the "Region History" and "Genetic Diversity" sections for Ireland.

For "Region History", we're told that the Ireland "component" (my term in place of "ancestry", since we don't always know whether a component does or does not reflect a certain ancestry) is


Primarily located in: Ireland, Wales, Scotland
Also found in: France, England


But more to the point, for "Genetic Diversity" Ancestry says a "typical native" of Ireland is likely to have 95% "Ireland", which means there's still 5% of something else. Or, to be more precise about what they're actually saying, 50% of their reference panel are at or above that 95%, and 50% are below it. Further, it looks as if about 25% of these "typical natives" have at least 76% but less than 95% "Ireland".

23% of "typical natives" have some amount of Great Britain. We don't know how large an amount -- presumably it varies greatly. 18% have some amount of Europe West (again, we don't know how much); and 13% have some amount of Scandinavian.

So the question doesn't seem to be whether "Scandinavian" is explainable as a component showing up in an Irish person, but how much might seem reasonable. It's possible that for some "typical natives", nearly everything that isn't identified as "Irish" could be identified as "Scandinavian", though it might be more reasonable to expect at least some "Great Britain".

But no matter how you slice it, 33% for an Irish person seems high. And if Customer Service says otherwise, they would appear not to be reading their company's own statements about the sample population for the "Irish" region.

EDIT:

If you look at the bar charts for Ancestry's reference population for Ireland, the bottom one might be seen as implying that there at least someone in the reference population whose "Ireland" component is 0. But if you compare the bar charts to the boxplot chart, it appears that there can be very few people at this level (hardly anyone, really).

The reason is that the colored rectangle on the box chart represents the middle 50% of the panel, and the dashed lines below and above the box represent the bottom 25% and the top 25% respectively. So if there is anyone outside this region, there are likely to be so few as to round to 0. (In percentage terms.)

However, there definitely does seem to be at least someone in the sample whose "Ireland" was only about 26%, meaning 74% has to be otherwise accounted for.

Nqp15hhu
09-23-2017, 10:10 PM
According to Ancestry 2% of Irish get Eastern Europe. European Jewish doesn't even register so it is unusual.
Mines must be true as it appeared on MyHeritage.

Nqp15hhu
09-23-2017, 10:12 PM
MyHeritage added 7% to the Celts category for me and removed Europe West, so I don't know what that infers.

tomz
09-23-2017, 10:48 PM
Ancestry .com 3% (0-8% range)
living DNA 4.4%
23andMe: 0%
FTDNA MY Origins: 0%
MyHeritage DNA 0%

Teutorigos
09-23-2017, 11:55 PM
I have no Scandinavian ancestors but have Irish, German, British, small amount of French ancestry and I always just figured the Scandinavian ancestry, that AncestryDNA reports, were from my British Isles and maybe German side.

Anyway,

AncestryDNA has me at 6% Scandinavian :

I haven't tested with other commercial vendors, at least not yet, but the crazy outlier seems to be Myheritage (uploaded raw data) which has my Scandinavian ancestry at 22.5%.

Sorry, I don't feel like doing an html table of my Fennoscandinavian percentages per chromosone, like Amerijoe, but my average Fennoscandian for all Chromosones on K36 is 9.68% so AncestryDNA 6% doesn't seem so crazy, after all, if K36 is trustworthy. So in my case 6% seems reasonable and conservative.

Jessie
09-24-2017, 12:00 AM
Mines must be true as it appeared on MyHeritage.

I get Ashkenazi in MyHeritage as well but I think MyHeritage needs to improve a lot. I personally don't take some of the trace amounts too seriously.

Teutorigos
09-24-2017, 12:02 AM
I get Ashkenazi in MyHeritage as well but I think MyHeritage needs to improve a lot. I personally don't take some of the trace amounts too seriously.

AFAIK, it is still in beta mode I'm waiting patiently for it to reach alpha or commercial ready mode. I am expecting my results to change.

Nqp15hhu
09-24-2017, 12:27 AM
I get Ashkenazi in MyHeritage as well but I think MyHeritage needs to improve a lot. I personally don't take some of the trace amounts too seriously.

I got Balkan, instead, I did keep my South Asian though.

JerryS.
09-24-2017, 12:59 AM
Ancestry DNA gave me 5% Scandinavian and 62& British Isles, FT DNA gave me 36% Scandinavian and 16% English.

deadly77
09-24-2017, 01:34 AM
From my tests, I get the following Scandinavian percentages:

Ancestry 15%
23andme 3.4%
FTDNA 6%
Living DNA 0%

Don't have any known recent Scandinavian ancestry, but the areas that my ancestors come from all had significant input from the invasions of Germanic tribes and Vikings into Britain.

Area-1255
01-16-2018, 05:09 AM
There seems something to this. In my example, I have in real life: zero Scandinavian ancestors.

Ancestry says: 35% Scandinavian (to be fair Family Tree says: 42%). 23andMe: 6%. If you crossed out Scandinavian in my Ancestry result and wrote in Irish, that's be pretty close to correct but Ancestry has me at 2% Irish.

I have many Scandinavian ancestors and yet my percentage is less than 1% - why? Because the DOMINANT percentages are first-up. Everything that is from a long ass time ago will be of insignificant percentage! Especially if your immediate parents are of high percentage of other things. Also, it doesn't really matter if you have high percentages of anything anyway - what matters in terms of genetic power is WHO your Ancestors are. You could have high Scandinavia and they could all be farmers or insignificant. You could have high Greek DNA but chances are not many of them had Spartan ancestors. You could have high Russian DNA and many of your ancestors could have been clothing store owners! You could have whatever combination of DNA and yet have 10-fold risk of Heart Disease because of it. So does it matter? Sure, but assuming things on percentage only is stupid - except for the mere FACT of it. Digging into Family History is much funner and surely more significant!

Baltimore1937
01-21-2018, 08:09 AM
Yeah, I have found the historical aspect of my tree discoveries to be fascinating. But there are still gaps.

msmarjoribanks
01-21-2018, 05:12 PM
From my tests, I get the following Scandinavian percentages:

Ancestry 15%
23andme 3.4%
FTDNA 6%
Living DNA 0%

Don't have any known recent Scandinavian ancestry, but the areas that my ancestors come from all had significant input from the invasions of Germanic tribes and Vikings into Britain.

Interesting comparison. Mine are:

Ancestry: 28%
FTDNA: none
MyHeritage (from Ancestry test): 7.5%
Gedmatch (K36-Fennoscandian): 7.11% (I know this is not really the same)

Reality: 7.5% (one great-grandparent is, so far as I know, 100% Swedish) + significant English, Scottish, Irish that could include Scandinavian inputs

JerryS.
01-21-2018, 05:26 PM
Interesting comparison. Mine are:

Ancestry: 28%
FTDNA: none
MyHeritage (from Ancestry test): 7.5%
Gedmatch (K36-Fennoscandian): 7.11% (I know this is not really the same)

Reality: 7.5% (one great-grandparent is, so far as I know, 100% Swedish) + significant English, Scottish, Irish that could include Scandinavian inputs

one great grandparent would equal 12.5%/

jshook
01-21-2018, 06:51 PM
Same for me:

Ancestry: 8%
Living DNA: 1.4%

So far, in the 4,000 or so ancestors I've been able to document, I've found none with any links to Scandinavia whatsoever. So definitely a curious result.

jshook
01-21-2018, 06:53 PM
one great grandparent would equal 12.5%/

You don't necessarily get exactly the same percentage of ancestry that you'd expect from an individual person. For example, I have a Japanese grandparent so logically you'd expect me to be exactly 25% Asian. In reality, every DNA test I've taken has shown it as 27%-28%, which means that another grandparent's DNA lost out, so to speak.

msmarjoribanks
01-21-2018, 07:40 PM
one great grandparent would equal 12.5%/

Yep, that's what I meant to say. Tried to edit but the website seemed to be offline for a bit, how annoying!

Intended point was I'm lower than ancestry but higher than FTDNA/MyHeritage. So for me ancestry is high, but it's not like the others don't have their own quirks.

Mstock
01-21-2018, 09:26 PM
My Scandinavian seems pretty accurate with ancestrydna.
Ancestrydna 17%
GenePlaza 43.5%
Gencove 20%

RobinBMc
01-21-2018, 10:48 PM
They certainly didn't overestimate my Scandinavian. I had one Norwegian great grandparent - so on paper, 12.5%. AncestryDNA gives me a Low Confidence 2% in Scandinavia (range 0-11%). My mom should be about 25% Norwegian - AncestryDNA says 29%, so it's fairly accurate her for, and possible underestimating mine.

Of course, my dad has no known Scandinavian ancestry and gets 4% from AncestryDNA - but such a small amount could be brushed off as noise.

fostert
01-21-2018, 11:04 PM
I've been under this impression since my first DNA test (which was with Ancestry). I think it was established that English, Irish and Scottish ancestry can get misID'ed by Ancestry's algorithm as Scandinavian. Ancestry's ethnicity test is supposed to penetrate back more than 1000 years, so it is entirely possible that someone who is British in the last 10 generations actually has some scandinavian going even further back.

MyHeritage is the worst for confusing Scand. with British, in my opinion - see the following (for reference I have no known Scandinavian on paper in the last 10 generations, and am 50% British+Irish in the last 10 generations):

AncestryDNA -> 3% Scandinavian, 40% British+Irish
LivingDNA -> 4% Scandinavian, 70% British/Irish
23andme -> 0.8%, 36% British & Irish
MyHeritage -> 38% Scandinavian, 22% English
FTDNA -> 7% Scandinavian, 5% British Isles

All this goes to show is what I'll tell anyone who'll listen: any of these ethnicity/ancestry tests have substantial inherent uncertainties (in their reference panels) that make any percentage <=5% completely unsubstantiated. 23andme are the worst at misleading the public with their insane accuracy ("wow - I'm 0.1% Native American! I wonder what my tribe is?"), and AncestryDNA does it right IMO, labelling anything below 5% as "Trace" regions which they warn may not be real at all.

msmarjoribanks
01-22-2018, 04:59 AM
All this goes to show is what I'll tell anyone who'll listen: any of these ethnicity/ancestry tests have substantial inherent uncertainties (in their reference panels) that make any percentage <=5% completely unsubstantiated. 23andme are the worst at misleading the public with their insane accuracy ("wow - I'm 0.1% Native American! I wonder what my tribe is?"), and AncestryDNA does it right IMO, labelling anything below 5% as "Trace" regions which they warn may not be real at all.

Agree with this.

Re confusing English with Scandinavian, I had the opposite experience:

For me Ancestry misses all my English (which is around 62.5%, possibly higher; Scandinavian again is roughly 12.5%), and gives me it only as a Low Confidence Region (4%). My Irish/Scottish/Welsh is about right or low, so apparently all the English got stuck into Western Europe plus bulking up my Scandinavian to 28%.

My Heritage is closer to the paper trail, has 55% English, 7.5% Scandinavia (and another 1.5% Finnish).

But I never expected any of these to be much more accurate, it's not realistic.