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Macura
09-25-2017, 08:43 PM
Bunjevacs are South Slavic ethnic group settled in various areas of ex-Yugoslavia (Lika, Dalmatia, Bačka) and southern Hungary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunjevci
I don't have any attention to prove or denying their affiliation - are they autochthonous group, part of Croatian nation or just roman-catholic Serbs. I just want to see what yDNA results will end up for them because, so far, there are no published DNA results (yDNA, mtDNA or auDNA) for Bunjevacs. Results are collected from various public databases, personal matches and testing which result are still not published (I participated in it, so I have a knowledge about results).
For Lika Bunjevac group, I took DNA results for the surnames based on Stjepan Pavičić book and for Bačka Bunjevac, surnames based on the book by Jovan Erdeljanović and other notorious Bunjevac's surnames in the region.
I would really appreciate if this thread don't become ''a war'' between Serbs and Croats and if it's possible, potential discussion could be on serbian, croatian, serbo-croatian or bunjevac language :P

This are yDNA result for Bunjevacs in total (Lika, Dalmatia, Bačka):
50.0% - R1a (most of them Z280)
29.0% - I2a Dinaric (so far PH908 is only proven subclade)
10.6% - R1b (eastern and western branches)
2.6% - I1, E1b, G2a and J1

Most of them are Bunjevacs from Lika and Velebitsko Podgorje, so if we look at them:
51.6% - R1a (so far M458 not found but still plenty of room to find it)
25.9% - I2a Din
12.9% - R1b
3.2% - I1, G2a, J1

The amount of R1a + I2a Din indicates significant Slavic origin of Bunjevacs. So called experts from Serbia propagated ''absolute domination'' of Dinaric hg among Bunjevacs, even declared ''Bunjevac cluster'' although none of the surnames in that ''cluster'' was not recognize as Bunjevacs by any author. Results for Lika group denies those claims but Bačka group could make some changes in those percentages.

Gravetto-Danubian
09-25-2017, 08:51 PM
What do they self identify as ?

Allan Quatermain
09-26-2017, 07:50 PM
The amount of R1a + I2a Din indicates significant Slavic origin of Bunjevacs. So called experts from Serbia propagated ''absolute domination'' of Dinaric hg among Bunjevacs, even declared ''Bunjevac cluster'' although none of the surnames in that ''cluster'' was not recognize as Bunjevacs by any author. Results for Lika group denies those claims but Bačka group could make some changes in those percentages.

This cluster is not anymore called as "Bunjevacki". The new name for this cluster is 19=14. There is some indications that all tested people who belong to that cluster have origin in Popovo Polje (eastern Herzegovina).

Illyro-Vlach
09-27-2017, 05:12 PM
What do they self identify as ?

In Croatia they identify as Croats. In Vojvodina (Serbia's northern province) two-thirds identify as Croats, the rest as Bunjevci as an ethnicity.

Macura
09-29-2017, 11:41 AM
In Croatia they identify as Croats. In Vojvodina (Serbia's northern province) two-thirds identify as Croats, the rest as Bunjevci as an ethnicity.

In Subotica area it's 50-50 :D Not sure for Sombor.

Macura
09-29-2017, 07:40 PM
Comparation: Bunjevci - Lika Croats - Lika Serbs in percentages:
R1a = 51.6 - 20.7 - 17.6
I2a = 25.9 - 24.1 - 33.8
R1b = 12.9 - 24.1 - 0.0
I1 = 3.2 - 10.3 - 9.5
G2a = 3.2 - 3.4 - 0.0
J1 = 3.2 - 0.0 - 4.1
(Commercial testing)

Feiichy
12-02-2017, 12:18 PM
In Croatia they identify as Croats. In Vojvodina (Serbia's northern province) two-thirds identify as Croats, the rest as Bunjevci as an ethnicity.

In Hungary absolute majority identifies as Croats, and they are counted as sub-Croatian population togheder with Šokci.

Bunjevci are ikavian speakers and Croats for sure, some of them declare as spearate ethnicity in Vojvodina due to political pressure after dissolution of Yugoslavia.

Dorkymon
12-02-2017, 12:50 PM
Comparation: Bunjevci - Lika Croats - Lika Serbs in percentages:
R1a = 51.6 - 20.7 - 17.6
I2a = 25.9 - 24.1 - 33.8
R1b = 12.9 - 24.1 - 0.0
I1 = 3.2 - 10.3 - 9.5
G2a = 3.2 - 3.4 - 0.0
J1 = 3.2 - 0.0 - 4.1
(Commercial testing)

It doesn't add up to 100.

Basta
12-04-2017, 07:15 AM
R1a / I2a ratio suggests northern origin (more south, more I2a percentile), R1b suggests western origin. Somewhere in NW Croatia (below Sava river).

Macura
01-26-2018, 05:20 PM
It doesn't add up to 100.

No, it doesn't. I just compared main hg among Bunjevacs with the same in the Lika province (Serbs and Croats).

Ikacz
04-03-2018, 06:51 PM
I am doing genealogical research. In 1697 there was the batlle at Senta. An anscestor came to western Europe. His familyname is : Ikats, Ikacz , Ikač , Икач. The name seems to be orginal from Dalmatia. Round 1685 is moved to the north.
In Vojvodina the name Ikac is to be find in Subotica, Sombor and other places. Also in Southern Hungary and Croatia.

I think this is a serious site, so I hope someone can help me to solve this "problem". So my question is Ikac,Ikač.. (Икач-Бенковац, Коларина-.Св. Георгије)
a name of Bunjevci origin ? Maybe this question should be in the genealogical section, but the subject is here.
Thank you.

Feiichy
04-20-2018, 03:16 PM
I am doing genealogical research. In 1697 there was the batlle at Senta. An anscestor came to western Europe. His familyname is : Ikats, Ikacz , Ikač , Икач. The name seems to be orginal from Dalmatia. Round 1685 is moved to the north.
In Vojvodina the name Ikac is to be find in Subotica, Sombor and other places. Also in Southern Hungary and Croatia.

I think this is a serious site, so I hope someone can help me to solve this "problem". So my question is Ikac,Ikač.. (Икач-Бенковац, Коларина-.Св. Георгије)
a name of Bunjevci origin ? Maybe this question should be in the genealogical section, but the subject is here.
Thank you.

Ikač is mostly Croatian name, but I don't know is it specifically Bunjevac. Probably yes, because most Croats in Subotica and Sombor are Bunjevac.
https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Ika%C4%8D/

Macura
04-21-2018, 07:56 PM
I am doing genealogical research. In 1697 there was the batlle at Senta. An anscestor came to western Europe. His familyname is : Ikats, Ikacz , Ikač , Икач. The name seems to be orginal from Dalmatia. Round 1685 is moved to the north.
In Vojvodina the name Ikac is to be find in Subotica, Sombor and other places. Also in Southern Hungary and Croatia.

I think this is a serious site, so I hope someone can help me to solve this "problem". So my question is Ikac,Ikač.. (Икач-Бенковац, Коларина-.Св. Георгије)
a name of Bunjevci origin ? Maybe this question should be in the genealogical section, but the subject is here.
Thank you.

Ikac / Ikač is not among Bunjevac surname in Subotica (not now, not in history) and it is not among Bunjevac group in Lika. So, I don't believe there is any relation between Ikac and Bunjevac ethnic group.

Macura
04-21-2018, 08:09 PM
Ikač is mostly Croatian name, but I don't know is it specifically Bunjevac. Probably yes, because most Croats in Subotica and Sombor are Bunjevac.
https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Ika%C4%8D/

1. Acta Croatica is not good source because every surname there is ''croatian'' just because it actually exist in Republic of Croatia. It doesn't mean that people with that surname are Croats.
2. Like I said in the begging, I don't want to put any label for Bunjevac - croatian, serbian or any other. Bunjevac didn't declare themselves as Croats or Serbs and they have right to declare themselves whatever they like. And many of them don't like to be ''Croats'', only Bunjevac. Also, first Croats in Subotica are noted in 1890. because 19 inhabitants of the city spoke croatian.

Feiichy
04-30-2018, 11:51 AM
1. Acta Croatica is not good source because every surname there is ''croatian'' just because it actually exist in Republic of Croatia. It doesn't mean that people with that surname are Croats.
2. Like I said in the begging, I don't want to put any label for Bunjevac - croatian, serbian or any other. Bunjevac didn't declare themselves as Croats or Serbs and they have right to declare themselves whatever they like. And many of them don't like to be ''Croats'', only Bunjevac. Also, first Croats in Subotica are noted in 1890. because 19 inhabitants of the city spoke croatian.

All but 20 000 Bunjevci in Serbia declare as Croats, and there are around million Bunjevci descendants in Croatia, Hungary and Serbia.

Even majority of Bunjevci in Serbia declare as Croats.

20 000 Bunjevci as separate ethnicity is huge minority among all Bunjevci.

There are some Serbs in Croatia who declare as Croat. so what ?

Dibran
01-02-2019, 09:44 PM
Bunjevacs are South Slavic ethnic group settled in various areas of ex-Yugoslavia (Lika, Dalmatia, Bačka) and southern Hungary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunjevci
I don't have any attention to prove or denying their affiliation - are they autochthonous group, part of Croatian nation or just roman-catholic Serbs. I just want to see what yDNA results will end up for them because, so far, there are no published DNA results (yDNA, mtDNA or auDNA) for Bunjevacs. Results are collected from various public databases, personal matches and testing which result are still not published (I participated in it, so I have a knowledge about results).
For Lika Bunjevac group, I took DNA results for the surnames based on Stjepan Pavičić book and for Bačka Bunjevac, surnames based on the book by Jovan Erdeljanović and other notorious Bunjevac's surnames in the region.
I would really appreciate if this thread don't become ''a war'' between Serbs and Croats and if it's possible, potential discussion could be on serbian, croatian, serbo-croatian or bunjevac language :P

This are yDNA result for Bunjevacs in total (Lika, Dalmatia, Bačka):
50.0% - R1a (most of them Z280)
29.0% - I2a Dinaric (so far PH908 is only proven subclade)
10.6% - R1b (eastern and western branches)
2.6% - I1, E1b, G2a and J1

Most of them are Bunjevacs from Lika and Velebitsko Podgorje, so if we look at them:
51.6% - R1a (so far M458 not found but still plenty of room to find it)
25.9% - I2a Din
12.9% - R1b
3.2% - I1, G2a, J1

The amount of R1a + I2a Din indicates significant Slavic origin of Bunjevacs. So called experts from Serbia propagated ''absolute domination'' of Dinaric hg among Bunjevacs, even declared ''Bunjevac cluster'' although none of the surnames in that ''cluster'' was not recognize as Bunjevacs by any author. Results for Lika group denies those claims but Bačka group could make some changes in those percentages.

Isn't Tesla part of 'Lika'? He was R1a-M458>L1029

oz
01-03-2019, 11:05 PM
There's a pretty big list of notable people born in the Lika region. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lika

Other than Tesla and others, Omer Pasha Latas is quite a fascinating historical figure in my opinion. Although he probably isn't liked by anyone, Croats, Serbs or Bosnian muslims. I wonder what Turks think of him, I'd assume very positively.

Illyro-Vlach
01-04-2019, 01:48 AM
Isn't Tesla part of 'Lika'? He was R1a-M458>L1029

Tesla was from Lika but wasn't a Bunjevac. When his ancestors settled Lika they were classified as Vlasi (Vlachs) and were all Serbian Orthodox and became part of the Serbian ethnos. Bunjevci were classified as Bunjevci upon arrival in Lika as one of the five groups populating the region and were 'Catholic Vlachs' who joined the Croatian corpus. I just finished reading a few books on the history of the peopling of this region so feel free to ask more questions.

Dibran
01-04-2019, 04:15 PM
Tesla was from Lika but wasn't a Bunjevac. When his ancestors settled Lika they were classified as Vlasi (Vlachs) and were all Serbian Orthodox and became part of the Serbian ethnos. Bunjevci were classified as Bunjevci upon arrival in Lika as one of the five groups populating the region and were 'Catholic Vlachs' who joined the Croatian corpus. I just finished reading a few books on the history of the peopling of this region so feel free to ask more questions.

Thanks. Do some vlachs have L1029? Or perhaps his ancestors were Proto-Slavs assimilated into Vlachs and then assimilated into the Serbian ethnos later. I know alot of Romanians have L1029. I am not sure if some Vlachs have it as well(by way of assimilation of proto-slavs in the early middle ages). Do we know of any Lika settlers in West Macedonia? There is an Albanian family in the Diber region of Albania and Macedonia with the surname Lika. I am uncertain what it may mean in Albanian and possibly being a coincidence or if its linked to middle age settlers from that region who took the name as a reminder? My paternal grandmothers maternal side were Lika from Diber in Eastern Albania.

branimir
01-04-2019, 04:22 PM
Tesla was from Lika but wasn't a Bunjevac. When his ancestors settled Lika they were classified as Vlasi (Vlachs) and were all Serbian Orthodox and became part of the Serbian ethnos. Bunjevci were classified as Bunjevci upon arrival in Lika as one of the five groups populating the region and were 'Catholic Vlachs' who joined the Croatian corpus. I just finished reading a few books on the history of the peopling of this region so feel free to ask more questions.

I'm interested in this book. Mind telling me its name and author?

Illyro-Vlach
01-04-2019, 11:30 PM
I'm interested in this book. Mind telling me its name and author?

Seoba i Naselja u Lici by Stjepan Pavicic is an older book but it's the best one on the subject of Lika. There have been a lot of papers to come out on Bunjevci in the past few years if you want to see them beyond Lika. Pavicic's book deals with the population of Lika prior to the Ottoman onslaught, during their occupation, and then after. If your interest is in the Serbian population of Lika it is very much worth your time to read it.

Illyro-Vlach
01-04-2019, 11:35 PM
Thanks. Do some vlachs have L1029? Or perhaps his ancestors were Proto-Slavs assimilated into Vlachs and then assimilated into the Serbian ethnos later. I know alot of Romanians have L1029. I am not sure if some Vlachs have it as well(by way of assimilation of proto-slavs in the early middle ages). Do we know of any Lika settlers in West Macedonia? There is an Albanian family in the Diber region of Albania and Macedonia with the surname Lika. I am uncertain what it may mean in Albanian and possibly being a coincidence or if its linked to middle age settlers from that region who took the name as a reminder? My paternal grandmothers maternal side were Lika from Diber in Eastern Albania.

You're going to have to ask others re: L1029 as I can't answer that question. Tesla's ancestors were Slavicized (later Serbianized) Vlachs who themselves might have assimilated early Slavs. That part is still quite fuzzy from a historical/ethnological perspective. I don't know of any people from Lika settling in Macedonia prior to Communist Yugoslavia where a lot of Serbs from Lika made up the JNA officer corps......a few of them might have ended up in Macedonia. Beyond that there is a tiny possibility of Serbs from Lika who later moved to Serbia and then joined in the attempted Serbian colonization of Macedonia in the early part of the 20th century, although that would be a long shot. Most people who left Lika at first ended up in Western Bosnia, then later today's Vojvodina and Northern Croatia (Serbs going to the former, Croats going to the latter).

Dibran
01-05-2019, 12:13 AM
You're going to have to ask others re: L1029 as I can't answer that question. Tesla's ancestors were Slavicized (later Serbianized) Vlachs who themselves might have assimilated early Slavs. That part is still quite fuzzy from a historical/ethnological perspective. I don't know of any people from Lika settling in Macedonia prior to Communist Yugoslavia where a lot of Serbs from Lika made up the JNA officer corps......a few of them might have ended up in Macedonia. Beyond that there is a tiny possibility of Serbs from Lika who later moved to Serbia and then joined in the attempted Serbian colonization of Macedonia in the early part of the 20th century, although that would be a long shot. Most people who left Lika at first ended up in Western Bosnia, then later today's Vojvodina and Northern Croatia (Serbs going to the former, Croats going to the latter).

Yea, coincidence then with the surname. It would have had to have been 500 years plus back.