View Full Version : pf 4363 in Britain update

08-17-2013, 01:27 AM
The graph for PF4363 on the U152 distribution website shows perhaps 6 entries for PF4363.
The group that are not surnamed are Kipling, from the Kipling DNA project.

The "Rudyard" group at the Kipling DNA project has a new match, and his name is Clarkeson. ( I am in the "Rudyard" group)
My family has used Clarkson, Claxon, Claxson, Claxton and other derivatives, but no Clarkeson.

AND, this person is a closer match to a Kipling, at 2 off at 37 markers, than me, which is 4 markers off.

I wonder if what we are running into here, is a small farming community in Yorkshire, intermarrying over the years. We could also have a case of adoptions..... or perhaps an orphan being adopted back into a deceased wifes family, and taking their surname.

This actually happened to my grandmother, who was born a PAYNE, but took her mothers surname (Elsie) Parker, after being taken in with her maternal grandparents. If a male was involved, we then would have a Payne Y dna in the Parker surname. ( The third surname in the Kipling DNA page is Parker...also in the "rudyard" group) K Elsie Parker was Rudyards secretary also.

So, apparently the PF4363 relates to one family...the Kipling Project andI would like to get this Clarkeson to test for PF4363... unfortunately, his e mail is no good.

As we are perhaps all La Tene Celts ( Briton) I also wonder if this PF # will ultimately mean Parissii or Brigantes, as this area of Yorkshire is home to this tribe.

Rich C

08-18-2013, 09:18 AM
I love reading about these results. I'm about to contact some people to hopefully jump start my own "Y-DNA/ pre-paper trail / surname and derivatives project".

Keep up the good work!

11-07-2013, 07:51 PM
I love reading about these results. I'm about to contact some people to hopefully jump start my own "Y-DNA/ pre-paper trail / surname and derivatives project".

Keep up the good work!

I have been able to get in touch with the person entering results for Clarkeson. The surname is spelt incorrectly, and should be the same as mine, Clarkson. She is , I think, I a well known genealogist in England and Canada, and apparently had some difficulty in getting her Clarkson clan to test. So, I and Mike Kipling are absolutely unable to get an "earliest Known" and county from her. It IS Yorkshire, and I think the same area as the Brigantes, if not the Parisii. ( Remember that a Bernard Clarkson excavated the arras grave area)

I would add one other thing. In @1990 I was doing research on Doggerland in England. ( The British Atlantis) . I have read where my mothers DNA, V, may be a main type of Doggerland before the sinking. Now, on 23 and Me, this Doggerland is also listed as a probability for u-152. I am no expert in these things, far from it, but this theory does allow for the large points of u152 surrounding Doggerland , on the present day shorelines.
note it says " some of the first men" meaning, not all.

From 23 and Me
Haplogroup R1b1b2a1a1

Today R1b1b2a1a1 is found mostly on the fringes of the North Sea in England, Germany and the Netherlands, where it reaches levels of one-third. That distribution suggests that some of the first men to bear the haplogroup in their Y-chromosomes were residents of Doggerland, a real-life Atlantis that was swallowed up by rising seas in the millennia following the Ice Age.

Doggerland was a low-lying region of forests and wetlands that must have been rich in game; today, fishing trawlers in the North Sea occasionally dredge up the bones and tusks of the mastodons that roamed there. Doggerland had its heyday between about 12,000 years ago, when the Ice Age climate began to ameliorate, and 9,000 years ago, when the meltwaters of the gradually retreating glaciers caused sea levels to rise, drowning the hunter's paradise. Doggerland's inhabitants retreated to the higher ground that is now the North Sea coast.
View Sources

Paternal haplogroups are families of Y chromosomes that all trace back to a single mutation at a specific place and time. By looking at the geographic distribution of these related lineages, we learn how our ancient male ancestors migrated throughout the world.

Haplogroup: R1b1b2, a subgroup of R1b1
Age: 17,000 years
Region: Europe
Example Populations: Irish, Basques, British, French
Highlight: R1b1b2 is the most common haplogroup in western Europe, with distinct branches in specific regions.

11-09-2013, 03:04 PM
Haplogroup R1b1b2a1a1 is U106 and not U152 which is more West-Alpine.

If we are supporters of the W European paleolithic origin of R1b-L51 and subclades. The Doggerland and arounds would be the domain of the Hambourgian culture (calibrated 15,000-12,000 BC) and derived epipaleolithic and mesolithic cultures (cal 12,000-4,000 BC ) populated by R1b-L11*, R1b-U106 and subclades and probably mixed with I1 subclades.


12-02-2013, 05:02 PM
Thanks Palamede. Of course, that is what my posted copy from 23 and me actually states.
I defer to more knowledgable on this subject... but the thought intrigues me still.

12-02-2013, 05:10 PM
I have been speaking with Britains DNA on me being willing to participate at a discounted price. I thought my input, as an Englishman and carrier of PF4363, might be of interest to them. As they do NOT have any samples of this type yet, they may not be able to offer much.
However, at a discounted price of 109 pounds, I thought the results may be of interest. They will at least pinpoint what COUNTY of England my ancestors are most likely to come from, and also show percentages of ancestry , controlled to a British origin. In other words, "English", Irish, Cornish, Scots, Manx, Orcadian etc.

Others have taken this test and are not impressed by it, but then, they are not 100% British by birth, so I would not see the point in taking the test anyway.

I will post my results here when available. ( no new saliva test needed also)