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Humanist
08-17-2013, 08:12 AM
Creating a thread to discuss Zack Ajmal's Harappa Ancestry Project (http://www.harappadna.org/).

Created a few basic analyses based on the most recent Harappa admix run (http://www.harappadna.org/2013/07/harappaworld-hrp0312-hrp0327/), for some Near Eastern populations.

Indo-Iranian Speaking Populations
Iranian_Harappa IRN_IR
Kurd_Harappa KRD_IR

Jewish Populations
Ashkenazi Jews ASHJ
Iranian Jews IRNJ
Iraqi Jews IRQJ
Sephardic Jews SEPJ
Yemen Jews YEMJ

Arab Populations
Bedouin BEDA
Iraqi IRQA
Jordanian JORA
Palestinian PALA1
Qatari QATA
Saudi SAUA
Syrian SYRA
Yemeni YEMA

Lebanese Populations
Lebanese Christian LEBC
Lebanese Druze LEBD
Lebanese Muslim LEBM

Other Populations
Assyrian_Harappa ASY
Iraqi Mandaean_Harappa MAN
Samaritan SAM


Cluster, Neighbor-joining, and MDS analyses respectively:


http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/cluster_analysis_harappa_aug_2013.jpg


http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/neighbor_joining_tree_harappa_august_2013.jpg


http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/mds_harappa_mds_1.jpg

DMXX
08-17-2013, 02:28 PM
Does the frequency of the SW Asian component in the Levant explain the placement of certain groups?

If we presume the SW Asian component here peaks in Arabian peninsular populations, and based on the neighbour-joining chart, it seems Jordanians, Palestinians and Samaritans have a stronger pull towards the Arabian peninsula than the Lebanese or Iraqi Arabs, with Syrians falling somewhere in-between the two para-Levantine groups.

I'm also surprised to see the "Iraqi Arab" group clustering with Iranians and Kurds. The samples here presumably have some form of Iranian ancestry. If only more ethnically uniform Iraqi Arabs tested to give us a better idea of where they sit.

Also, if Zack hasn't already carried this out, would it be possible to carry out similar analyses on individual Near-Easterners in Harappa? Zack's created neighbour-joining charts that cover all of South Asia in the past and they've been quite informative.

Humanist
08-18-2013, 08:21 AM
Does the frequency of the SW Asian component in the Levant explain the placement of certain groups?

If we presume the SW Asian component here peaks in Arabian peninsular populations, and based on the neighbour-joining chart, it seems Jordanians, Palestinians and Samaritans have a stronger pull towards the Arabian peninsula than the Lebanese or Iraqi Arabs, with Syrians falling somewhere in-between the two para-Levantine groups.

I'm also surprised to see the "Iraqi Arab" group clustering with Iranians and Kurds. The samples here presumably have some form of Iranian ancestry. If only more ethnically uniform Iraqi Arabs tested to give us a better idea of where they sit.

Also, if Zack hasn't already carried this out, would it be possible to carry out similar analyses on individual Near-Easterners in Harappa? Zack's created neighbour-joining charts that cover all of South Asia in the past and they've been quite informative.

When I had reviewed the values a few weeks back, I referred to the differences (and similarities) in the "Caucasus," "South Indian," and the various "African" components. But, certainly, one should also consider the "SW Asian" component, as you have pointed out.

With regard to your other query, I ran cluster, neighbor-joining, and MDS analyses on Harappa West Asian participants (after excluding a handful of individuals).

Cluster

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/cluster_harappa_individuals_1.jpg

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/cluster_harappa_individuals_2.jpg

Neighbor-joining

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/neighbor_joining_harappa_individuals_1.jpg

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/neighbor_joining_harappa_individuals_2.jpg

MDS

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/mds_harappa_individuals_2.jpg

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/mds_harappa_individuals_1.jpg



HRP0010 Assyrian IRN
HRP0018 Iranian
HRP0020 Iranian
HRP0030 Iranian
HRP0034 Iranian Khorasani
HRP0040 Iranian
HRP0043 Iraqi Arab
HRP0046 Iranian
HRP0081 Assyrian
HRP0082 Assyrian
HRP0083 Azeri Turk
HRP0094 Iraqi Mandaean
HRP0105 Kurd (Iranian)
HRP0128 Iranian
HRP0141 Kurd (Turkish)
HRP0143 Turkish
HRP0144 Kurd (Iraqi)
HRP0145 Kurd (Iraqi)
HRP0146 Kurd (Iraqi)
HRP0147 Assyrian
HRP0156 Kurd (Iraqi)
HRP0175 Georgian Svan
HRP0177 Azeri
HRP0186 Georgian
HRP0193 Georgian
HRP0207 Iraqi Mandaean
HRP0216 Assyrian IRQ
HRP0224 Assyrian
HRP0242 North Ossetian
HRP0243 Georgian
HRP0246 Kurd Zaza Turkey
HRP0247 Kurd Kurmanji Iraq
HRP0248 Kurd Kurmanji Iraq
HRP0249 Kurd Yezidi Iraq
HRP0255 Turk
HRP0258 Kurd (Feyli)
HRP0260 Turkish Alevi
HRP0264 Iranian
HRP0277 Iraqi Arab
HRP0279 Iraqi Arab
HRP0280 Armenian
HRP0285 Armenian
HRP0309 Iranian
HRP0324 Kurd from Turkey

DMXX
08-18-2013, 10:20 AM
This is great, thanks! We haven't had much work done on Southwest and West Asians in a while.

Very interesting... I (HRP0020) am part of the cluster that specifically covers the entire range to which NW Iranic speakers were known to have existed (or still do). The only difference between the Cluster and Neighbour-Joining maps is the placement of the Khorasani Iranian, but that doesn't take away from the inference. In fact, given Parthian was spoken around the Khorasan-Mazandaran-Turkmenistan zone...

Palisto
08-18-2013, 10:36 PM
I made a tree a few months ago using HarappaWorld reference populations.
628

Hanna
08-20-2013, 08:24 PM
I am HRP0143. Interesting that I am close to the Georgians.

Dr_McNinja
09-22-2013, 02:48 AM
Why are there so few submissions from the interior of India on the map?

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=213477478240786108634.0004a3b78e865f0d14b01&ll=32.546813,74.707031&spn=56.695776,79.013672&z=4

Just found it curious. A lack of significant submissions from that entire middle region of India is what's preventing the creation of a useful online admixture tool for recent ancestry in South Asians. All we have to work with are ancestral components from other parts of the world or the extremes of India (North, South, East, and Pakistan).

Sein
10-01-2013, 03:54 AM
Hi Palisto,

Excellent work! I find it interesting that me and other Pashtun participants at HAP cluster in such an interesting spot. Rather unexpected. Is the "Baloch" component responsible for this?

Alanson
10-12-2013, 04:31 AM
My harappa results:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 lebanese-muslim @ 6.227
2 palestinian @ 6.425
3 syrian @ 6.584
4 iraqi-arab @ 7.170
5 uzbekistan-jew @ 7.252
6 lebanese @ 7.716
7 armenian @ 8.083
8 iraq-jew @ 8.299
9 iraqi-mandaean @ 8.747
10 iranian-jew @ 9.272
377 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% armenian +50% syrian @ 2.471
2 50% syrian +50% uzbekistan-jew @ 2.700
3 50% azeri +50% palestinian @ 2.830
4 50% lebanese +50% uzbekistan-jew @ 2.921
5 50% armenian +50% palestinian @ 3.116
6 50% iranian +50% samaritian @ 3.177
7 50% azeri +50% jordanian @ 3.209
8 50% kurd +50% palestinian @ 3.369
9 50% iraqi-arab +50% lebanese-muslim @ 3.406
10 50% iraqi-arab +50% lebanese-druze @ 3.406
71253 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% syrian +25% iranian +25% lebanese-druze @ 2.062
2 50% syrian +25% turkish +25% uzbekistan-jew @ 2.155
3 50% syrian +25% azeri +25% iraq-jew @ 2.181
4 50% syrian +25% armenian +25% uzbekistan-jew @ 2.182
5 50% palestinian +25% azeri +25% kurd @ 2.186
6 50% syrian +25% iranian +25% lebanese-christian @ 2.211
7 50% syrian +25% iraqi-mandaean +25% turkish @ 2.252
8 50% syrian +25% kurd +25% lebanese-muslim @ 2.253
9 50% syrian +25% kurd +25% lebanese-druze @ 2.259
10 50% syrian +25% iranian-jew +25% turkish @ 2.277
1011837 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 azeri + palestinian + syrian + uzbekistan-jew @ 1.858
2 azeri + jordanian + syrian + uzbekistan-jew @ 1.955
3 azeri + iranian + jordanian + samaritian @ 1.990
4 azeri + georgia-jew + iraqi-arab + palestinian @ 1.991
5 azeri + iranian + palestinian + samaritian @ 2.001
6 azeri + palestinian + palestinian + uzbekistan-jew @ 2.014
7 azeri + iraqi-arab + lebanese-christian + syrian @ 2.034
8 iranian + lebanese-druze + syrian + syrian @ 2.062
9 azeri + jordanian + kurd + samaritian @ 2.079
10 azeri + iranian + jordanian + samaritian @ 2.084
11 armenian + azeri + palestinian + syrian @ 2.102
12 georgia-jew + iraqi-arab + palestinian + turkish @ 2.103
13 armenian + azeri + palestinian + palestinian @ 2.132
14 azeri + iranian + samaritian + syrian @ 2.135
15 iraqi-arab + palestinian + turk + uzbekistan-jew @ 2.153
16 syrian + syrian + turkish + uzbekistan-jew @ 2.155
17 iranian + samaritian + syrian + turkish @ 2.177
18 azerbaijan-jew + iraqi-arab + palestinian + turkish @ 2.180
19 azeri + iraq-jew + syrian + syrian @ 2.181
20 armenian + syrian + syrian + uzbekistan-jew @ 2.182

Humanist
12-01-2013, 03:01 AM
My Harappa Admix and Oracle Results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 49.61
2 Baloch 20.88
3 SW-Asian 18.59
4 Mediterranean 8.12
5 NE-Euro 1.2
6 NE-Asian 0.55
7 S-Indian 0.46
8 Siberian 0.4
9 American 0.1
10 Papuan 0.09
11 Beringian 0.01

Eastern Mizrahim (Jewish) populations in red. Arabic-speaking populations in blue.

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 assyrian (harappa) 2.46
2 iranian-jew (behar) 3.94
3 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 4.22
4 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 4.32
5 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 5.07
6 georgia-jew (behar) 5.38
7 iraq-jew (behar) 5.86
8 armenian (harappa) 6.53
9 armenian (yunusbayev) 8.83
10 kurd (yunusbayev) 9.56
11 lebanese-druze (haber) 10.19
12 kurd (xing) 10.23
13 turkish (harappa) 10.74
14 kurd (harappa) 10.96
15 lebanese-muslim (haber) 10.96
16 armenian (behar) 11.43
17 lebanese-christian (haber) 11.53
18 iraqi-arab (harappa) 11.87
19 azeri (harappa) 11.93
20 palestinian (harappa) 12.39

ViktorL1
12-04-2013, 04:32 AM
Ohh, Harrapa just uploaded a new dataset.. My data is in it :)

Humanist
12-09-2013, 11:06 PM
Ohh, Harrapa just uploaded a new dataset.. My data is in it :)

HarappaWorld HRP0375-HRP0384 (http://www.harappadna.org/2013/12/harappaworld-hrp0375-hrp0384/)

ZephyrousMandaru
01-26-2014, 01:19 AM
There is a new person in my Relative Finder "Fouad", I think he might be Assyrian.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 44.08
2 SW-Asian 21.22
3 Baloch 19.86
4 Mediterranean 10.27
5 NE-Euro 3.11
6 S-Indian 1.28
7 Beringian 0.13
8 Papuan 0.03
9 Siberian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 4.42
2 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 5.46
3 iraq-jew (behar) 6.15
4 iranian-jew (behar) 6.58
5 armenian (harappa) 7.12
6 iraqi-arab (harappa) 7.22
7 palestinian (harappa) 7.68
8 assyrian (harappa) 7.97
9 georgia-jew (behar) 8.62
10 syrian (behar) 9
11 lebanese-muslim (haber) 9.14
12 lebanese (behar) 9.93
13 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 9.96
14 turkish (harappa) 10.41
15 kurd (harappa) 10.46
16 lebanese-druze (haber) 10.53
17 lebanese-christian (haber) 11.02
18 kurd (yunusbayev) 11.09
19 kurd (xing) 11.35
20 iranian (behar) 11.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.2% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 8.8% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 1.47
2 92.8% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 7.2% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 1.48
3 92.9% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 7.1% basque (hgdp) @ 1.52
4 91.6% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 8.4% french (hgdp) @ 1.6
5 92.6% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 7.4% british (1000genomes) @ 1.81
6 92.8% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 7.2% orcadian (hgdp) @ 1.86
7 92.4% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 7.6% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 1.88
8 89.6% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 10.4% italian (hgdp) @ 1.9
9 92.5% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 7.5% n-european (xing) @ 2.07
10 87.7% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 12.3% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 2.22
11 91.8% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 8.2% hungarian (behar) @ 2.46
12 82.8% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 17.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.5
13 89.5% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 10.5% romanian-a (behar) @ 2.54
14 84.4% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 15.6% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 2.55
15 92.1% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 7.9% slovenian (xing) @ 2.59
16 92.3% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 7.7% libya (henn2012) @ 2.61
17 67.1% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 32.9% palestinian (harappa) @ 2.65
18 91.8% iranian-jew (behar) + 8.2% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 2.69
19 94% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 6% mozabite (hgdp) @ 2.71
20 94.1% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 5.9% saharawi (henn2012) @ 2.72

Sein
01-26-2014, 01:54 AM
...With regard to your other query, I ran cluster, neighbor-joining, and MDS analyses on Harappa West Asian participants (after excluding a handful of individuals)...

If possible, could you try these analyses with the whole data-set, every individual participant? We would all sincerely appreciate this, and it would be quite informative, since Zack now has some participants from rather interesting backgrounds.

Mandoos
01-26-2014, 03:32 AM
What I found

Population
S-Indian 50.25%
Baloch 35.32%
Caucasian 1.61%
NE-Euro 3.14%
SE-Asian 1.62%
Siberian 0.45%
NE-Asian 0.70%
Papuan 0.80%
American 0.32%
Beringian 1.40%
Mediterranean 2.61%
SW-Asian 1.77%

Interesting to see Tharu show up.

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 3.2
2 dharkar (metspalu) 3.51
3 up (harappa) 3.74
4 ap-brahmin (xing) 3.81
5 tharu (metspalu) 4.52
6 iyengar-brahmin (harappa) 4.79
7 rajasthani (harappa) 4.83
8 bihari (harappa) 4.87
9 up-muslim (metspalu) 4.92
10 iyer-brahmin (harappa) 4.96
11 kerala-nair (harappa) 5.11
12 kerala-muslim (harappa) 5.27
13 ap-reddy (harappa) 5.31
14 kanjar (metspalu) 5.38
15 andhra-pradesh (harappa) 5.39
16 karnataka (harappa) 5.42
17 kerala-christian (harappa) 5.59
18 tn-brahmin (xing) 5.71
19 tamil (harappa) 5.93
20 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 5.93

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.5% up (harappa) + 29.5% gujarati-patel (harappa) @ 1.93
2 93.6% dharkar (metspalu) + 6.4% makrani (hgdp) @ 2
3 83% up-scheduled-caste (metspalu) + 17% brahui (hgdp) @ 2.01
4 93.6% dharkar (metspalu) + 6.4% brahui (hgdp) @ 2.02
5 67.4% up (harappa) + 32.6% gujarati-a (1000genomes) @ 2.02
6 93.2% dharkar (metspalu) + 6.8% balochi (hgdp) @ 2.05
7 93.8% ap-reddy (harappa) + 6.2% orcadian (hgdp) @ 2.17
8 93.8% ap-reddy (harappa) + 6.2% british (1000genomes) @ 2.22
9 83% lodi (reich) + 17% brahui (hgdp) @ 2.28
10 81.9% dusadh (metspalu) + 18.1% brahui (hgdp) @ 2.28
11 93.8% ap-reddy (harappa) + 6.2% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 2.29
12 82.2% up-scheduled-caste (metspalu) + 17.8% balochi (hgdp) @ 2.29
13 71.2% dusadh (metspalu) + 28.8% sindhi (hgdp) @ 2.3
14 80.9% dusadh (metspalu) + 19.1% balochi (hgdp) @ 2.32
15 63.3% dharkar (metspalu) + 36.7% kerala-nair (harappa) @ 2.32
16 89.8% dharkar (metspalu) + 10.2% sindhi (hgdp) @ 2.35
17 93.9% ap-reddy (harappa) + 6.1% n-european (xing) @ 2.38
18 94.2% ap-reddy (harappa) + 5.8% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 2.4
19 82.1% lodi (reich) + 17.9% balochi (hgdp) @ 2.42
20 93.7% ap-reddy (harappa) + 6.3% french (hgdp) @ 2.42

Humanist
01-26-2014, 05:55 AM
If possible, could you try these analyses with the whole data-set, every individual participant? We would all sincerely appreciate this, and it would be quite informative, since Zack now has some participants from rather interesting backgrounds.

Neighbor-Joining

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g326/dok101/Faces/harappa_nj_jan_2014.jpg~original

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g326/dok101/Faces/harappa_nj_jan_2014_.jpg~original

Sein
01-26-2014, 06:30 AM
Beautiful! You're absolutely amazing! Thank you so much.

Mehrdad
01-26-2014, 06:53 AM
Looking at this it would seem that Punjabi's and Kashmiri's share a lot of similarities.

BMG
01-26-2014, 11:40 AM
What I found

Population
S-Indian 50.25%
Baloch 35.32%
Caucasian 1.61%
NE-Euro 3.14%
SE-Asian 1.62%
Siberian 0.45%
NE-Asian 0.70%
Papuan 0.80%
American 0.32%
Beringian 1.40%
Mediterranean 2.61%
SW-Asian 1.77%



Your overall results are comparable to mine but surprised that your caucasian is very low compared to other kerala christians(around 6-8%) in the harappa project . Actually i have the lowest among the participants at 5% .

My gedmatch HAP results for comparison
Population
S-Indian 49.10%
Baloch 34.81%
Caucasian 4.75%
NE-Euro 3.57%
SE-Asian 0.81%
Siberian 1.05%
NE-Asian 1.32%
Papuan 1.12%
American 0.69%
Beringian 0.51%
Mediterranean0.00%
SW-Asian 2.29%

Mandoos
01-26-2014, 01:20 PM
^ Yes, I also saw that these percentages were actually more comparable to one Nair individual from the updated chart than the Kerala Christians.

Humanist
01-26-2014, 11:34 PM
Was just checking the haplogroup sheet, and apparently my haplogroup data was deleted at some point in 2013. I am HRP0010. I have reentered my data in the sheet.

That gave me the idea to create another tree, but this time, instead of ethnicity, or ID number representing an individual, I would use Y-DNA data (if available). I will try and do the same for mtDNA later.

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g326/dok101/Faces/ydna_harappa.jpg~original

Humanist
01-26-2014, 11:44 PM
mtDNA

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g326/dok101/Faces/mtdna_harappa.jpg~original

ViktorL1
01-29-2014, 05:33 AM
Also, why did HarappaWorld shut down their comments? No more discussion there apparently...

Sein
01-29-2014, 07:14 AM
Also, why did HarappaWorld shut down their comments? No more discussion there apparently...

It's quite unfortunate that comments aren't allowed at HAP anymore. Zack took this step because of some persistent trolls, who made the comment stream a really awkward place. On top of that, people we're beginning to discuss some rather weird topics. I hope that Zack eventually brings back the comment function.

DMXX
01-29-2014, 12:14 PM
I think Zack made the right decision at this point in time.

As an observer and visiting poster to his blog in the earlier days, it is apparent that - For whatever reason - The topic of South Asian genetics has attracted individuals who almost obsessively post on topics in a circular fashion. Many later blog entries are accompanied by 100+ posts from the same handful of users, multiple times.

I recognised some of these posters, as their style matches that of known trolls on other forums. The comments section became cluttered with either too much ambiguous or niche information that was rarely substantiated.

Conversation is conversation, but the manner in which these contributors were approaching his posts simply isn't fit for a blog format. It is a shame; some useful perspectives were expressed there.

I'd very much like to find a way of mediating a solution to the issue - I imagine others, including Zack, are disappointed with the required measures to that established problem.

ViktorL1
01-29-2014, 09:52 PM
I think Zack made the right decision at this point in time.

As an observer and visiting poster to his blog in the earlier days, it is apparent that - For whatever reason - The topic of South Asian genetics has attracted individuals who almost obsessively post on topics in a circular fashion. Many later blog entries are accompanied by 100+ posts from the same handful of users, multiple times.

I recognised some of these posters, as their style matches that of known trolls on other forums. The comments section became cluttered with either too much ambiguous or niche information that was rarely substantiated.

Conversation is conversation, but the manner in which these contributors were approaching his posts simply isn't fit for a blog format. It is a shame; some useful perspectives were expressed there.

I'd very much like to find a way of mediating a solution to the issue - I imagine others, including Zack, are disappointed with the required measures to that established problem.

I've noticed alot of people have very strong passions regarding West/Central/South Asian issues in particular. European and African issues don't seem to inspire as much trolling and bickering. I'm not sure why this is.

DMXX
01-29-2014, 10:48 PM
I've noticed alot of people have very strong passions regarding West/Central/South Asian issues in particular. European and African issues don't seem to inspire as much trolling and bickering. I'm not sure why this is.

European and African genetics attract their own myriad of trolls, my friend, but the matter does seem especially passionate among West and South Asians.

This isn't an online social phenomenon that I think can be explained in literature, given how recent the Internet is. We'll have to make our own deductions based on prior experience. I perceive the strong emotional contingent to these discussions to ultimately stem from the long history of historical revisionism and/or the enforcement of local divisions across that part of the world. People generally become more sensitive to their group identity and how others perceive them, which then determines how they interact with others. The comments section of the Harappa Project website demonstrate all of these observations consistently.

Thus, the Internet becomes a medium to which some people automatically regurgitate the accumulation of these real world effects on self-identification without questioning them. These people likely become major obstacles to proper discussion, but many are not beyond reproach. With enough sensible interaction and subsequent attrition of their dogmatic views from within, a large number can become rational and sensible contributors to any community. Many, however, do not go through this.

newtoboard
01-29-2014, 10:56 PM
I think certain South and West Asian posters see themselves as the center of the world from which other people descend from. There are already claims being thrown around on the west Asian origin of YDNA C which is pretty laughable.

Mehrdad
01-29-2014, 11:32 PM
I've noticed alot of people have very strong passions regarding West/Central/South Asian issues in particular. European and African issues don't seem to inspire as much trolling and bickering. I'm not sure why this is.

Its really is too bad, I enjoyed reading constructive and productive comments on Zack's Harappan blog, but it really got out of hand and the poor guy just couldn't keep moderating the discussions.

DMXX
01-29-2014, 11:49 PM
I think certain South and West Asian posters see themselves as the center of the world from which other people descend from. There are already claims being thrown around on the west Asian origin of YDNA C which is pretty laughable.

Indeed. I'm familiar with grandiosity coming from some posters of South or West Asian background online (i.e. everyone and everything's actually a Turk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_language_theory)), but this attempt at defining West Asia as the birthplace of Y-DNA C is a new one. What is the proposed basis to this?


Its really is too bad, I enjoyed reading constructive and productive comments on Zack's Harappan blog, but it really got out of hand and the poor guy just couldn't keep moderating the discussions.

I can imagine viewing hundreds of rabid-sounding messages from the same congregation of people for months can be tedious at best and downright daunting at worst.

When Zack founded the Harappa Ancestry Project all those years back, a ridiculously large information black hole existed concerning the state of South Asian genetics. I don't think current participants are aware of how little we at DNA-Forums knew about India's genetic structure beyond the 2006 Sengupta et al. paper, for example. His efforts have pushed our understanding of population structures both within and in the immediate vicinity of the Indian Subcontinent forward by years relative to standard peer review research.

In my view, all enthusiasts of South Asian genetics should be paying tribute to his invaluable contribution. Instead, some very persistent individuals are glossing over this fact completely by fixating on their agendas. This is an unacceptable way of honouring this man's hard work. Unfortunately, this was inevitable in hindsight, given the persistence of these characters (demonstrated elsewhere online) and the limited means to which he could regulate them as the sole administrator of an independent site.


An excellent sociological-anthropological analysis!

What I personally find fascinating, approximately 70% of all comments on later blog entries (in particular, the last one) stem from the keyboard of a single individual. ...

Now this was an excellent and insightful post. :) I am somewhat aware of the views held by Pakistani Pashtuns (also a poster at Pashtun Forums (http://www.pashtunforums.com/)), such as the call for a Pakhtunistan and the dissolution of the artificial Durand line. The connection with the Muhajjir perspective wasn't immediately apparent, but it definitely makes sense.

ViktorL1
01-30-2014, 12:25 AM
An excellent sociological-anthropological analysis!

What I personally find fascinating, approximately 70% of all comments on later blog entries (in particular, the last one) stem from the keyboard of a single individual. This individual adopted many separate "personae", various handles, and even argued with himself. Oddly, the community which interests him the most isn't even his own! He plies his trade on other forums, and it's clear that he is from Karachi, Pakistan. His family originates from the Delhi-Uttar Pradesh area of India. Oddly though, he apparently hates Indian people with a disturbing passion, and has a rather unhealthy love affair with South-Central Asians. Pashtuns are his abiding interest, and he makes them the centerpiece of every discussion, despite having no recent links to any Pashtun people.

But I think his attitude towards Indians, and his infatuation with Pashtun people, is explicable considering his background. Muhajir people, in general, look at their former homeland in a very demeaning and harsh light. The call for the creation of Pakistan came most strongly from North Indian Muslims, and the "indigenous" inhabitants of contemporary Pakistan (Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhi, Baloch, etc) we're rather uninterested in the whole issue (I'm generalizing though). For example, Pashtuns always wanted to be reunited with Afghanistan, or at least provided a separate state of their own (and shockingly, the Congress Party was more popular in NWFP than the Muslim League). So the Muhajir community has always had a rather sour relationship with India. And his fascination with Pashtuns is explicable as well. In Pakistan, Pashtuns are perceived as being the most "foreign", or "distinctive" community in Pakistan. Many Pakistanis don't even regard us as "Desis", and consider our connection to Pakistan's Indo-Aryan communities as being very tenuous. So, for a Pakistani individual trying to distance themselves from their North Indian roots, attaching oneself to Pashtun people seems logical. He often asserts that he has Pashtun ancestry, and that his family doesn't "look" Indian (whatever that could possibly mean), despite being from India. IRL, this is actually very common among many Muhajir people in Pakistan, and it's root cause is their dislike of Hindu India.

I'm just speculating here, but I'm guessing that some of these issues have to deal with caste/regional/local identities? The British colonization no doubt contributed to localism (divide and conquer). Some of the comments at HarrapaWorld seemed downright bizarre, and people seem to attach alot of personal meaning to scientific results. I just wish science and ethno-politics were kept seperate. Discussion of ethnic history, culture is fine, but politicization of science is a very bad road to go down. Ultimately we're all more alike than different.

newtoboard
01-30-2014, 12:42 AM
This might upset some people but the majority of South Asian and West Asian trolls are from outside of a belt straying in Iran and ending in NW india. There are a lot of reasons why this makes sense if you think about it.

You should read some of the comments on Andronovo being Turkic to get an idea of what true trolling and delusion looks like.

DMXX
01-30-2014, 12:44 AM
This might upset some people but the majority of South Asian and West Asian trolls are from outside of a belt straying in Iran and ending in NW india.

I don't follow; were you stating the majority of South and West Asian trolls are from Iran to NW India, or outside of that zone?

newtoboard
01-30-2014, 12:45 AM
Indeed. I'm familiar with grandiosity coming from some posters of South or West Asian background online (i.e. everyone and everything's actually a Turk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_language_theory)), but this attempt at defining West Asia as the birthplace of Y-DNA C is a new one. What is the proposed basis to this?



I can imagine viewing hundreds of rabid-sounding messages from the same congregation of people for months can be tedious at best and downright daunting at worst.

When Zack founded the Harappa Ancestry Project all those years back, a ridiculously large information black hole existed concerning the state of South Asian genetics. I don't think current participants are aware of how little we at DNA-Forums knew about India's genetic structure beyond the 2006 Sengupta et al. paper, for example. His efforts have pushed our understanding of population structures both within and in the immediate vicinity of the Indian Subcontinent forward by years relative to standard peer review research.

In my view, all enthusiasts of South Asian genetics should be paying tribute to his invaluable contribution. Instead, some very persistent individuals are glossing over this fact completely by fixating on their agendas. This is an unacceptable way of honouring this man's hard work. Unfortunately, this was inevitable in hindsight, given the persistence of these characters (demonstrated elsewhere online) and the limited means to which he could regulate them as the sole administrator of an independent site.



Now this was an excellent and insightful post. :) I am somewhat aware of the views held by Pakistani Pashtuns (also a poster at Pashtun Forums (http://www.pashtunforums.com/)), such as the call for a Pakhtunistan and the dissolution of the artificial Durand line. The connection with the Muhajjir perspective wasn't immediately apparent, but it definitely makes sense.

I think there was a comment on the Dienekes blog about Ydna C being West Asian.

Can he have moderators on this site to regulate these comments?

newtoboard
01-30-2014, 12:45 AM
I don't follow; were you stating the majority of South and West Asian trolls are from Iran to NW India, or outside of that zone?

Outside of this zone.

DMXX
01-30-2014, 01:08 AM
I'm just speculating here, but I'm guessing that some of these issues have to deal with caste/regional/local identities? The British colonization no doubt contributed to localism (divide and conquer). Some of the comments at HarrapaWorld seemed downright bizarre, and people seem to attach alot of personal meaning to scientific results. I just wish science and ethno-politics were kept seperate. Discussion of ethnic history, culture is fine, but politicization of science is a very bad road to go down. Ultimately we're all more alike than different.

Couldn't agree more. A fine line exists between the contemplation of how certain genetic results reflect in us and actively identifying with these results. The distinction and shift to the latter is readily apparent in some posters online. These people are, by default, restricted in how they can contribute in discussions. You can observe them readily behaving as one-dimensional mouthpieces for a particular stance. Positive interactions with such folk is very much a "single use only" affair.

Somewhat coincidentally, this was the basis for the institution of a new rule here (3.5 (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7-Terms-of-Service-and-Forum-Rules-Update)), as a means of dissuading those posters from behaving in the repetitive and circular manner unfortunately seen at Harappa.

ViktorL1
01-30-2014, 01:27 AM
Couldn't agree more. A fine line exists between the contemplation of how certain genetic results reflect in us and actively identifying with these results. The distinction is readily apparent in some posters online. These people are, by default, restricted in how they can contribute in discussions. You can observe them readily behaving as one-dimensional mouthpieces for a particular stance. Positive interactions with such folk is very much a "single use only" affair.

Somewhat coincidentally, this was the basis for the institution of a new rule here (3.5 (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7-Terms-of-Service-and-Forum-Rules-Update)), as a means of dissuading those posters from behaving in the repetitive and circular manner unfortunately seen at Harappa.

Nationalism makes me nervous on some level. I am aware of my ethnicity and my cultural background, but I don't identify with a "region" or "tribe". I'm guessing for people who grew up in more local or provincial areas that they identify more strongly with their particular subset of South/Central/West Asian society. I think these issues are worth discussing because they serve as a major impediment to research into our ethnic and cultural backgrounds. For those of us of South/Central/West Asian ancestry, it is hard enough as it is finding up to date information. We don't need factionalism dividing people further. It's frustrating enough to have most genetic (including health-focused)
research be so biased towards European populations as opposed to others.

soulblighter
01-30-2014, 04:34 AM
I hope this thread does not stray too much now. Please continue all non HAP related discussions in the lounge!

Sein
01-30-2014, 04:38 AM
Excellent point!

We're done here.

I wonder if Zack could add these samples http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/geo/query/acc.cgi?acc=GSE53445? It would be interesting to see some HarappaWorld results for Malagasy people.

There is some more good news, Zack told me he's working on some new analyses and Admixture runs. Should be a lot of fun.

DMXX
01-30-2014, 04:32 PM
I hope this thread does not stray too much now. Please continue all non HAP related discussions in the lounge!

Posts concerning the Muhajirs of Pakistan can now be found here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1975-Pakistan-and-the-Muhajir-perspective). This thread is for the Harappa Ancestry Project specifically only.

ZephyrousMandaru
01-30-2014, 05:45 PM
I wonder when Zack is going to release a new calculator, it's been a while since he's done anything.

everest59
01-30-2014, 10:30 PM
Zack should just post admixture runs from k=2 to k=20 for current participants. It could be completed in a few months.

DMXX
02-01-2014, 01:34 AM
A few quick comments returning to Humanist's charts on page three:

- Unexpectedly, Kurds and Iranians congregate amongst one another.
- As expected, Y-DNA J2, R1a, L and R2a are scattered across all participants.
- Upon visual inspection alone, it appears Y-DNA diversity across all clusters is less than mtDNA diversity.

I don't believe any of these findings are surprising at this point. I (and others I'd imagine) have noted these same patterns for the past few years.

If there is one thing that is welcoming to see through these open-source projects, it is the congruence in broad results.


Can he have moderators on this site to regulate these comments?

Following the news and in keeping with sentiments expressed in an earlier post (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1229-Harappa-Ancestry-Project&p=29147&viewfull=1#post29147), I did actually contact Zack in light of his decision. A proposition was made, whereby this forum could officially host discussions pertaining to his project. As inferred in your post, I cited increased capability in handling those pesky trolls and our administrative size as favourable factors in that proposal. As the offer was gently declined, followers of his project will have to pursue discussions in a less formal capacity elsewhere, such as in this thread.

Of course, there is the possibility comments will once more be enabled at some point.

Alanson
03-14-2014, 05:43 AM
'm also surprised to see the "Iraqi Arab" group clustering with Iranians and Kurds. The samples here presumably have some form of Iranian ancestry. If only more ethnically uniform Iraqi Arabs tested to give us a better idea of where they sit.

Many Iraqi Arabs are of Arabized Persian origins. These Iraqi Arabs have kept their Iranic identity known, but have assimilated locally to the culture. Some of them will show strong Iranic lineages well others will be mixed. In fact Iraqi Persians were considered to be one of the ethnic groups of Iraq, but they never identified themselves as Persians, which make their case unique. These people also tend to be religious and often concentrate in the shrine cities, but can be found all over Iraq. There is actually several waves of Persian migration to Iraq. The first was during the Afghan occupation of Iran where many migrated to Iraq in particular to Najaf and Karbala. The second wave migrated during the the Qajar period mostly as merchants. The third wave mostly came during the rise of the Shah's regime again mostly religious folks. What is interesting these people have adopted the costumes of the locals and that almost there is no difference between them, but kept an Iranic identity as stated before, but they never disassociate themselves from Arabs, but see it as cultural element that is also part of them. One of the posters here I believe who is also my friend comes from this community Enki, and he also clusters with Persians and Kurds and does come from this community.

Sein
05-03-2014, 01:36 AM
Zack has finally updated the spreadsheet with new participants, and I think the results are interesting.

We have HRP0385, a Kabuli, whose results are as expected.

HRP0392 and HRP0393 are, respectively, Punjabi Sikh and Haryanvi Hindu Jatts, and the differences are interesting, especially in regard to the "Caucasian" and "NE Euro" components.

HRP0396 is an Afghan Hazara, and their results match Pakistani Hazara from Quetta (HGDP samples) better than they do the Di Cristofaro Hazara. I think this supports the notion that northern Afghanistan is a sort of melting pot, and that Hazara from Hazarajat will be most similar to the HGDP Hazara.

HRP0405 is an Afghan with a diverse heritage, Tajik, Uzbek, and "Kabuli". Yet, their results are most similar to Pashtuns. They are 31% "Baloch", 20% "South Indian", and 16% "Caucasian". Not sure what this could imply.

HRP0406 is really interesting, since we have yet to see autosomal results for a Chitrali. Although they are only 50% Chitrali, this does give us an idea. Interestingly, they have more of the "South Indian" component than HRP0181, who is 50% Pakistani Pashtun, 50% English. Taking their percentages at face value, their Chitrali parent is probably around 21%-22% "South Indian", and around 12% East Eurasian (Zack's run overestimates East Eurasian. In fact, it usually doubles the actual amount, so probably around 6% East Eurasian). So, the Chitrali aren't too different from the Kalash, Burusho, or Pashtuns, all of whom are usually around 20% "South Indian".

HRP0408 is a Durrani Pashtun, and is very similar to most Durrani Pashtuns we've seen. We also have HRP0409 and HRP0410, who are 50% Afghan Pashtun, and 50% Afghan Tajik. Yet, they are more South Asian than the Durrani Pashtuns, especially HRP0408. I think this tells us something about the genetic history of the Durrani. They have been very open to Persian culture, and their present territory was once home to large communities of Farsi-speaking agriculturalists. So, I think it is reasonable to say that contemporary Durrani Pashtuns have absorbed substantial Farsiwan ancestry, which is why other Afghans of mixed Pashtun+Tajik ancestry are similar to Durranis. In addition, the fact that extremely isolated South Central Asian groups like the Kalash, Burusho, or Chitrali are as "South Indian" as the HGDP Pashtuns indicates that these levels are typical of ancient South Central Asia, and the lower levels among Durrani Pashtuns are due to admixture. For further evidence, we have Afghan Pashtuns like HRP0281, HRP0373, and possibly, the Afghan Pashtun parents of HRP0409 and HRP0410.

HRP0411 is the project's first fully Pakistani Pashtun. They are a "true" Swat Yusufzai. Only 15% of Swat's population is actually Yusufzai Pashtun, although the vast majority of the valley's population speaks Pashto, and refer to themselves as Yusufzai (to outsiders). Most of Swat's inhabitants are descendants of Indo-Aryan or Dardic people. Despite this, many people in Swat call themselves "Yusufzai", although the actual Yusufzai call them "Fakir". The actual, endogenous, small Yusufzai class (who own land, and have Hamsayah attached to themselves) add the name of their sub-section. They ultimately originate from Kabul. In this sense, HRP0411's results are very interesting. They have slightly more of the "South Indian" component than the HGDP Pashtuns (24%). Yet, their "Caucasian" component is 20%, around the same amount most Durrani Pashtuns get. Not sure what this could mean. I wonder how non-Pashtun Swati who speak Pashto stack up genetically?

everest59
05-03-2014, 10:43 PM
Here's a comment from Zack:


I have been working on a new admixture calculator whenever I have found some time from real life pursuits. However, that's still not ready and I have a lot of submissions. So I am posting the HarappaWorld results for them.

I can't wait for the new calculator. Zack told me a few months ago that he'll be including some ancient DNA samples. I sent him the La Brana as well as Mal'ta samples as well as the data that Generalissimo sent me. He will also be using the new Moorjani dataset. He said he wanted to make it as accurate as possible for everybody. It is a lot of work, so we should all thank Zack for all the work he's doing.

FaerieQueene
06-24-2014, 11:36 PM
GEDmatch HarappaWorld Admixture Proportions/Oracle/Oracle-4/Oracle-X

Dad:
HarappaWorld Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.27
2 SW-Asian 26.4
3 Mediterranean 17.53
4 Baloch 9.41
5 E-African 2.42
6 S-Indian 0.48
7 SE-Asian 0.48
8 San 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 lebanese (behar) 6.33
2 jordanian (behar) 7.8
3 samaritian (behar) 8.45
4 syrian (behar) 8.51
5 lebanese-christian (haber) 8.58
6 palestinian (hgdp) 8.62
7 lebanese-muslim (haber) 9.02
8 palestinian (harappa) 9.22
9 lebanese-druze (haber) 10.52
10 cypriot (behar) 11.37
11 iraq-jew (behar) 12.49
12 iraqi-arab (harappa) 14.44
13 iranian-jew (behar) 14.97
14 georgia-jew (behar) 15.05
15 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 15.09
16 sephardic-jew (behar) 15.1
17 armenian (harappa) 16.12
18 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 16.58
19 morocco-jew (behar) 16.66
20 assyrian (harappa) 16.85

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87% lebanese-christian (haber) + 13% tunisia (henn2012) @ 3.53
2 85.9% lebanese-christian (haber) + 14.1% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 3.59
3 86% lebanese-christian (haber) + 14% saharawi (henn2012) @ 3.79
4 86% lebanese-christian (haber) + 14% mozabite (hgdp) @ 3.83
5 85.2% lebanese-christian (haber) + 14.8% algeria (henn2012) @ 3.93
6 82.3% lebanese-christian (haber) + 17.7% libya (henn2012) @ 4.1
7 85.5% lebanese-christian (haber) + 14.5% moroccan (behar) @ 4.33
8 58.6% palestinian (hgdp) + 41.4% cypriot (behar) @ 4.47
9 62% lebanese (behar) + 38% samaritian (behar) @ 4.6
10 69.4% samaritian (behar) + 30.6% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.65
11 67.2% samaritian (behar) + 32.8% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 4.74
12 62.6% jordanian (behar) + 37.4% cypriot (behar) @ 4.77
13 79.1% lebanese-druze (haber) + 20.9% libya (henn2012) @ 5.12
14 83.8% lebanese-druze (haber) + 16.2% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 5.14
15 85% lebanese-druze (haber) + 15% tunisia (henn2012) @ 5.14
16 83.8% lebanese-druze (haber) + 16.2% saharawi (henn2012) @ 5.15
17 69.8% lebanese-christian (haber) + 30.2% morocco-jew (behar) @ 5.18
18 83.7% lebanese-druze (haber) + 16.3% mozabite (hgdp) @ 5.2
19 77.6% cypriot (behar) + 22.4% bedouin (hgdp) @ 5.24
20 90.9% samaritian (behar) + 9.1% basque (hgdp) @ 5.26

HarappaWorld 4-Ancestors Oracle

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 lebanese @ 7.166
2 jordanian @ 8.653
3 samaritian @ 9.028
4 lebanese-christian @ 9.255
5 syrian @ 9.463
6 palestinian @ 9.471
7 lebanese-muslim @ 9.832
8 palestinian @ 10.236
9 lebanese-druze @ 11.402
10 cypriot @ 12.409
377 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% lebanese +50% samaritian @ 5.242
2 50% cypriot +50% palestinian @ 5.319
3 50% cypriot +50% jordanian @ 5.845
4 50% palestinian +50% samaritian @ 6.238
5 50% lebanese-christian +50% palestinian @ 6.368
6 50% jordanian +50% lebanese-christian @ 6.390
7 50% jordanian +50% samaritian @ 6.658
8 50% lebanese-muslim +50% samaritian @ 6.736
9 50% samaritian +50% syrian @ 6.749
10 50% samaritian +50% sephardic-jew @ 6.762
71253 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% samaritian +25% iraq-jew +25% morocco-jew @ 3.543
2 50% samaritian +25% iraqi-mandaean +25% morocco-jew @ 3.602
3 50% samaritian +25% iranian-jew +25% morocco-jew @ 3.718
4 50% samaritian +25% morocco-jew +25% palestinian @ 4.008
5 50% samaritian +25% lebanese-christian +25% morocco-jew @ 4.092
6 50% samaritian +25% assyrian +25% morocco-jew @ 4.092
7 50% samaritian +25% palestinian +25% sephardic-jew @ 4.096
8 50% samaritian +25% lebanese-muslim +25% morocco-jew @ 4.167
9 50% samaritian +25% lebanese-druze +25% morocco-jew @ 4.176
10 50% samaritian +25% iraq-jew +25% sephardic-jew @ 4.262
1012287 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 iraq-jew + morocco-jew + samaritian + samaritian @ 3.543
2 iraqi-mandaean + morocco-jew + samaritian + samaritian @ 3.602
3 iranian-jew + morocco-jew + samaritian + samaritian @ 3.718
4 iraq-jew + morocco-jew + palestinian + samaritian @ 3.950
5 morocco-jew + palestinian + samaritian + samaritian @ 4.008
6 iraq-jew + jordanian + morocco-jew + samaritian @ 4.051
7 jordanian + lebanese-christian + morocco-jew + samaritian @ 4.084
8 lebanese-christian + morocco-jew + samaritian + samaritian @ 4.092
9 assyrian + morocco-jew + samaritian + samaritian @ 4.092
10 palestinian + samaritian + samaritian + sephardic-jew @ 4.096
11 iranian-jew + morocco-jew + palestinian + samaritian @ 4.112
12 lebanese-muslim + morocco-jew + samaritian + samaritian @ 4.167
13 lebanese-christian + morocco-jew + palestinian + samaritian @ 4.169
14 lebanese-christian + morocco-jew + palestinian + samaritian @ 4.171
15 iraq-jew + palestinian + samaritian + sephardic-jew @ 4.175
16 lebanese-druze + morocco-jew + samaritian + samaritian @ 4.176
17 assyrian + morocco-jew + palestinian + samaritian @ 4.231
18 cypriot + egypt + iraq-jew + samaritian @ 4.235
19 jordanian + lebanese-christian + samaritian + sephardic-jew @ 4.258
20 iraq-jew + samaritian + samaritian + sephardic-jew @ 4.262

9024612 iterations.

Done.



Elapsed time 7.3420 seconds.

HarappaWorld Oracle-X Population Fitting

Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 samaritian 51.42%
2 iraqi-mandaean 28.93%
3 sardinian 8.62%
4 lebanese 5.79%
5 morocco-n 3.89%
6 tygray 1.35%
7 morocco-jew 0.00%
8 iraqi-arab 0.00%
9 egypt 0.00%
10 makrani 0.00%

Pct. Calc. Option 2

0 Unable to determine 0.01%
1 samaritian 37.89%
2 lebanese 24.95%
3 lebanese-druze 6.25%
4 morocco-n 5.69%
5 morocco-jew 5.53%
6 armenian 4.52%
7 sardinian 4.49%
8 egypt 4.49%
9 brahui 3.45%
10 iranian 2.74%
Me:
HarappaWorld Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 26.73
2 Mediterranean 24.14
3 NE-Euro 21.69
4 SW-Asian 14.27
5 Baloch 10.12
6 E-African 1.46
7 Siberian 0.55
8 S-Indian 0.48
9 American 0.21
10 W-African 0.2
11 San 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 ashkenazi (harappa) 8.11
2 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 9.43
3 tuscan (1000genomes) 10.98
4 tuscan (hgdp) 11.41
5 tuscan (hapmap) 11.96
6 morocco-jew (behar) 15.08
7 sephardic-jew (behar) 15.13
8 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 15.86
9 romanian-a (behar) 16.12
10 italian (hgdp) 17.32
11 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 17.85
12 romanian-b (behar) 23.74
13 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 24.38
14 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 24.94
15 cypriot (behar) 25.28
16 lebanese (behar) 25.45
17 turkish (harappa) 26.24
18 turk (behar) 26.29
19 spaniard (behar) 26.9
20 syrian (behar) 27.18
20 syrian (behar) 27.18

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.3% lebanese (behar) + 46.7% french (hgdp) @ 1.32
2 51.7% syrian (behar) + 48.3% french (hgdp) @ 1.83
3 51.7% palestinian (harappa) + 48.3% french (hgdp) @ 2.33
4 50.5% lebanese-muslim (haber) + 49.5% french (hgdp) @ 2.95
5 51% jordanian (behar) + 49% french (hgdp) @ 3
6 59.5% lebanese (behar) + 40.5% british (1000genomes) @ 3.01
7 52% french (hgdp) + 48% lebanese-christian (haber) @ 3.04
8 58.5% lebanese (behar) + 41.5% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 3.2
9 74.3% morocco-jew (behar) + 25.7% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 3.42
10 72.2% morocco-jew (behar) + 27.8% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 3.65
11 53.3% french (hgdp) + 46.7% iraq-jew (behar) @ 3.68
12 61% lebanese (behar) + 39% orcadian (hgdp) @ 3.69
13 54.3% lebanese-christian (haber) + 45.7% british (1000genomes) @ 3.71
14 53.5% french (hgdp) + 46.5% samaritian (behar) @ 3.79
15 78% morocco-jew (behar) + 22% lithuanian (behar) @ 3.81
16 52.1% french (hgdp) + 47.9% lebanese-druze (haber) @ 3.82
17 75.9% morocco-jew (behar) + 24.1% russian (hgdp) @ 3.83
18 82.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 17.9% orcadian (hgdp) @ 3.85
19 71.5% sephardic-jew (behar) + 28.5% utahn-white (hapmap) @ 3.88
20 72.9% sephardic-jew (behar) + 27.1% orcadian (hgdp) @ 3.9

HarappaWorld 4-Ancestors Oracle

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 ashkenazi @ 8.974
2 ashkenazy-jew @ 10.494
3 tuscan @ 11.618
4 tuscan @ 12.071
5 tuscan @ 12.664
6 morocco-jew @ 16.635
7 sephardic-jew @ 16.757
8 bulgarian @ 17.279
9 romanian-a @ 17.626
10 italian @ 18.567
377 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% french +50% lebanese @ 2.758
2 50% french +50% syrian @ 2.814
3 50% french +50% palestinian @ 3.228
4 50% french +50% lebanese-muslim @ 3.519
5 50% french +50% lebanese-christian @ 3.549
6 50% french +50% jordanian @ 3.745
7 50% french +50% palestinian @ 4.436
8 50% french +50% lebanese-druze @ 4.437
9 50% french +50% iraq-jew @ 4.547
10 50% french +50% samaritian @ 4.631
71253 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% french +25% palestinian +25% samaritian @ 1.541
2 50% french +25% iraq-jew +25% palestinian @ 1.655
3 50% french +25% iraq-jew +25% jordanian @ 1.835
4 50% palestinian +25% lithuanian +25% sardinian @ 1.849
5 50% french +25% jordanian +25% lebanese-christian @ 1.859
6 50% french +25% georgia-jew +25% palestinian @ 1.885
7 50% french +25% lebanese-christian +25% palestinian @ 1.942
8 50% lebanese +25% italian +25% orcadian @ 1.977
9 50% lebanese +25% british +25% italian @ 2.006
10 50% french +25% iranian-jew +25% palestinian @ 2.037
1492046 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 lezgin + sardinian + utahn-white + georgia-jew @ 1.250
2 georgia-jew + palestinian + spaniard + utahn-white @ 1.346
3 british + georgia-jew + palestinian + spaniard @ 1.388
4 georgia-jew + palestinian + spaniard + utahn-white @ 1.421
5 georgia-jew + palestinian + spaniard + utahn-white @ 1.435
6 basque + georgian + utahn-white + yemen-jew @ 1.442
7 georgia-jew + palestinian + spaniard + utahn-white @ 1.455
8 sardinian + urkarah + utahn-white + yemen-jew @ 1.466
9 samaritian + spaniard + utahn-white + uzbekistan-jew @ 1.476
10 lezgin + n-european + sardinian + yemen-jew @ 1.490
11 sardinian + urkarah + utahn-white + yemen-jew @ 1.490
12 iraq-jew + orcadian + samaritian + spaniard @ 1.496
13 iranian-jew + orcadian + samaritian + spaniard @ 1.500
14 georgia-jew + orcadian + samaritian + spaniard @ 1.507
15 georgian + spain-basc + utahn-white + yemen-jew @ 1.519
16 french + french + palestinian + samaritian @ 1.541
17 iranian-jew + orcadian + samaritian + spaniard @ 1.545
18 n-european + sardinian + urkarah + yemen-jew @ 1.549
19 british + georgia-jew + palestinian + spaniard @ 1.562
20 samaritian + spaniard + utahn-white + uzbekistan-jew @ 1.573

9546364 iterations.

Done.

Elapsed time 8.1667 seconds.

HarappaWorld Oracle-X Population Fitting

Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 ashkenazi 40.46%
2 orcadian 18.23%
3 morocco-jew 11.47%
4 ashkenazy-jew 11.35%
5 palestinian 5.99%
6 brahui 4.41%
7 bedouin 3.84%
8 tuscan 3.76%
9 tygray 0.49%
10 saharawi 0.00%

Pct. Calc. Option 2

0 Unable to determine 0.01%
1 ashkenazi 53.18%
2 orcadian 10.52%
3 brahui 8.44%
4 saharawi 7.12%
5 ashkenazy-jew 5.20%
6 british 4.26%
7 cypriot 3.80%
8 romanian-a 3.59%
9 jordanian 2.83%
10 ethiopian-jew 1.06%
Mom:
HarappaWorld Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 46.65
2 Mediterranean 29.27
3 Baloch 10.63
4 Caucasian 10.3
5 SW-Asian 1.71
6 American 0.69
7 W-African 0.34
8 E-African 0.25
9 SE-Asian 0.15
10 Papuan 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 utahn-white (1000genomes) 6.66
2 n-european (xing) 6.71
3 hungarian (behar) 7.32
4 utahn-white (hapmap) 7.43
5 french (hgdp) 8.08
6 british (1000genomes) 8.44
7 slovenian (xing) 9.08
8 orcadian (hgdp) 10.65
9 ukranian (yunusbayev) 16.09
10 romanian-a (behar) 18.39
11 spaniard (behar) 19.91
12 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 20.76
13 belorussian (behar) 20.92
14 spaniard (1000genomes) 21.02
15 italian (hgdp) 21.4
16 mordovian (yunusbayev) 21.6
17 russian (behar) 22.85
18 russian (hgdp) 24.3
19 lithuanian (behar) 26.98
20 tuscan (hapmap) 26.99

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.4% orcadian (hgdp) + 36.6% romanian-a (behar) @ 1.1
2 90.9% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 9.1% georgian (harappa) @ 1.17
3 90.2% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 9.8% armenian (behar) @ 1.22
4 66.2% orcadian (hgdp) + 33.8% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 1.25
5 89.4% utahn-white (hapmap) + 10.6% azerbaijan-jew (behar) @ 1.28
6 87.4% utahn-white (hapmap) + 12.6% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) @ 1.29
7 89.3% utahn-white (hapmap) + 10.7% assyrian (harappa) @ 1.37
8 88.8% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 11.2% turk (behar) @ 1.38
9 88.3% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 11.7% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) @ 1.41
10 90.5% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 9.5% azerbaijan-jew (behar) @ 1.43
11 90.3% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 9.7% georgia-jew (behar) @ 1.47
12 88% utahn-white (hapmap) + 12% cypriot (behar) @ 1.48
13 88.7% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 11.3% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) @ 1.5
14 91.4% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 8.6% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 1.5
15 91.7% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 8.3% georgian (behar) @ 1.51
16 88.7% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 11.3% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 1.51
17 87.7% utahn-white (hapmap) + 12.3% turkish (harappa) @ 1.52
18 89.1% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 10.9% azeri (harappa) @ 1.52
19 89.5% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 10.5% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 1.53
20 89.7% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 10.3% adygei (hgdp) @ 1.54

HarappaWorld 4-Ancestors Oracle

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 utahn-white @ 6.912
2 n-european @ 7.030
3 utahn-white @ 7.775
4 hungarian @ 8.085
5 french @ 8.757
6 british @ 8.911
7 slovenian @ 9.910
8 orcadian @ 11.435
9 serbian @ 16.426
10 ukranian @ 17.320
377 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% orcadian +50% serbian @ 3.261
2 50% british +50% hungarian @ 3.570
3 50% hungarian +50% utahn-white @ 3.576
4 50% french +50% slovenian @ 3.906
5 50% french +50% hungarian @ 3.937
6 50% british +50% serbian @ 3.991
7 50% british +50% slovenian @ 4.646
8 50% hungarian +50% utahn-white @ 4.671
9 50% slovenian +50% utahn-white @ 4.726
10 50% hungarian +50% orcadian @ 4.784
71253 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% utahn-white +25% bulgarian +25% orcadian @ 1.542
2 50% british +25% bulgarian +25% utahn-white @ 1.674
3 50% utahn-white +25% romanian-a +25% utahn-white @ 1.733
4 50% utahn-white +25% british +25% romanian-a @ 1.742
5 50% utahn-white +25% romanian-a +25% utahn-white @ 1.747
6 50% utahn-white +25% orcadian +25% romanian-a @ 1.756
7 50% british +25% bulgarian +25% utahn-white @ 1.777
8 50% utahn-white +25% british +25% bulgarian @ 1.811
9 50% utahn-white +25% french +25% serbian @ 1.841
10 50% british +25% romanian-a +25% utahn-white @ 1.842
2250832 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 bulgarian + orcadian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.542
2 french + orcadian + serbian + utahn-white @ 1.654
3 british + british + bulgarian + utahn-white @ 1.674
4 bulgarian + orcadian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.677
5 british + bulgarian + orcadian + utahn-white @ 1.678
6 british + romanian-a + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.698
7 french + n-european + orcadian + serbian @ 1.730
8 romanian-a + utahn-white + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.733
9 british + bulgarian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.741
10 british + romanian-a + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.742
11 romanian-a + utahn-white + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.747
12 orcadian + romanian-a + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.756
13 british + bulgarian + orcadian + utahn-white @ 1.774
14 british + british + bulgarian + utahn-white @ 1.777
15 british + bulgarian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.811
16 french + orcadian + serbian + utahn-white @ 1.826
17 french + serbian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.841
18 british + british + romanian-a + utahn-white @ 1.842
19 british + french + serbian + utahn-white @ 1.863
20 british + bulgarian + n-european + orcadian @ 1.864

12654692 iterations.

Done.

Elapsed time 10.1620 seconds.

HarappaWorld Oracle-X Population Fitting

Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 utahn-white 86.07%
2 balkar 5.42%
3 iranian-jew 3.55%
4 ashkenazi 2.25%
5 finnish 1.84%
6 dominican 0.40%
7 colombian 0.25%
8 puerto-rican 0.20%
9 puerto-rican 0.01%
10 mexican 0.01%

Pct. Calc. Option 2

0 Unable to determine 0.01%
1 utahn-white 57.69%
2 iranian-jew 9.47%
3 british 8.72%
4 orcadian 7.32%
5 finnish 6.87%
6 colombian 4.34%
7 spain-basc 4.30%
8 georgian 1.04%
9 italian 0.13%
10 serbian 0.11%

bol_nat
09-06-2014, 04:41 PM
HRP044, HRP0106, HRP0107, HRP0135 and HRP0354 are Pakistani punjabi-pahari rajputs. This is average of 5 Pakistani rajput samples.

South Indian: 34%
Baloch: 39.8%
Caucasian: 10.8%
NE Euro: 7.6%

dp
09-06-2014, 05:19 PM
my results:
2550
Population
S-Indian -
Baloch 9.36%
Caucasian 7.18%
NE-Euro 47.10%
SE-Asian -
Siberian 0.29%
NE-Asian -
Papuan -
American 0.78%
Beringian -
Mediterranean 33.33%
SW-Asian 1.72%
San -
E-African -
Pygmy 0.19%
W-African -

bored
09-07-2014, 05:47 AM
HRP044, HRP0106, HRP0107, HRP0135 and HRP0354 are Pakistani punjabi-pahari rajputs. This is average of 5 Pakistani rajput samples.

South Indian: 34%
Baloch: 39.8%
Caucasian: 10.8%
NE Euro: 7.6%

I was looking at HarappaWorld Admixture and realized that the "kashmiri" participant HRP0021 is actually half Dogra, half Kashmiri.
Apparently she has "Dogra and Kashmiri mixed family origins from Reasi and Srinagar." (from HAP)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW3R0Ys-P4HdDhib1M5OE1wWENNb2haUFFWZzNBMEE#gid=1

HRP0021 (half Dogra, half Kashmiri) 's results.

South Indian - 29 %
Baloch- 41 %
Caucasian - 14 %
NE Euro - 11%
Mediterranean - 2%

jesus
09-07-2014, 06:46 AM
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 31.64
2 Baloch 26.26
3 SW-Asian 15.71
4 S-Indian 8.62
5 Mediterranean 5.08
6 W-African 3.85
7 NE-Euro 3.74
8 American 1.52
9 E-African 1.42
10 Papuan 0.85
11 Beringian 0.6
12 San 0.42
13 Pygmy 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 iranian (behar) 8.41
2 kurd (harappa) 11.11
3 iranian (harappa) 11.26
4 iraqi-arab (harappa) 12.43
5 kurd (xing) 14.03
6 kurd (yunusbayev) 14.82
7 turkmen (yunusbayev) 15.34
8 turkish (harappa) 15.83
9 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 16.2
10 azeri (harappa) 17.3
11 armenian (harappa) 17.46
12 palestinian (harappa) 18.15
13 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 18.88
14 syrian (behar) 19.59
15 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 20.2
16 iranian-jew (behar) 20.56
17 turk (behar) 20.69
18 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 20.75
19 lebanese (behar) 21.13
20 iraq-jew (behar) 21.14

bol_nat
09-07-2014, 01:44 PM
In my 23andme relative list on top there is jatt, from East Punjab going by name.

"3rd to 6th Cousin
0.20% shared, 2 segments"

Can anyone explain what this shared segments supposed to mean?

bol_nat
09-07-2014, 03:33 PM
I was looking at HarappaWorld Admixture and realized that the "kashmiri" participant HRP0021 is actually half Dogra, half Kashmiri.
Apparently she has "Dogra and Kashmiri mixed family origins from Reasi and Srinagar." (from HAP)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW3R0Ys-P4HdDhib1M5OE1wWENNb2haUFFWZzNBMEE#gid=1

HRP0021 (half Dogra, half Kashmiri) 's results.

South Indian - 29 %
Baloch- 41 %
Caucasian - 14 %
NE Euro - 11%
Mediterranean - 2%

I read in ABS forums someone who is full dogra from Jammu have sent 23andme sample, but no idea if he will share raw data.

bored
09-07-2014, 04:26 PM
I read in ABS forums someone who is full dogra from Jammu have sent 23andme sample, but no idea if he will share raw data.

Really? Can you PM me the link if you don't mind? I have also ordered 23andme kit and I am a full Dogra from Jammu. Probably will get the results in about 4 weeks :)

bol_nat
09-07-2014, 04:38 PM
Really? Can you PM me the link if you don't mind? I have also ordered 23andme kit and I am a full Dogra from Jammu. Probably will get the results in about 4 weeks :)

Now i am not sure if he is Dogra, seem to be Brahmin from Himachal going by post in second page.


http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/42109-Classify-my-phenotype-and-place-me-(-New-member-here-)

bored
09-07-2014, 04:53 PM
Now i am not sure if he is Dogra, seem to be Brahmin from Himachal going by post in second page.


http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/42109-Classify-my-phenotype-and-place-me-(-New-member-here-)

Oh lol. That's kenji. Yes he is a Himachali Brahmin but identifies himself as a Dogra. I'm in contact with him on another forum. It will be interesting to compare my results to his.

Mandoos
09-07-2014, 07:50 PM
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 31.64
2 Baloch 26.26
3 SW-Asian 15.71
4 S-Indian 8.62
5 Mediterranean 5.08
6 W-African 3.85
7 NE-Euro 3.74
8 American 1.52
9 E-African 1.42
10 Papuan 0.85
11 Beringian 0.6
12 San 0.42
13 Pygmy 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 iranian (behar) 8.41
2 kurd (harappa) 11.11
3 iranian (harappa) 11.26
4 iraqi-arab (harappa) 12.43
5 kurd (xing) 14.03
6 kurd (yunusbayev) 14.82
7 turkmen (yunusbayev) 15.34
8 turkish (harappa) 15.83
9 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 16.2
10 azeri (harappa) 17.3
11 armenian (harappa) 17.46
12 palestinian (harappa) 18.15
13 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 18.88
14 syrian (behar) 19.59
15 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 20.2
16 iranian-jew (behar) 20.56
17 turk (behar) 20.69
18 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 20.75
19 lebanese (behar) 21.13
20 iraq-jew (behar) 21.14

Interesting, your results reflect a history of trade.

Bulut
09-17-2014, 08:37 AM
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.76
2 Baloch 15.17
3 NE-Euro 13.01
4 Mediterranean 12.84
5 SW-Asian 8.43
6 Siberian 5.63
7 NE-Asian 3.61
8 S-Indian 2.16
9 Beringian 1.24


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 turk-aydin @ 4.407533
2 turk-istanbul @ 9.459224
3 turk-kayseri @ 10.620272
4 turk @ 11.632576
5 turkish @ 11.682832
6 azeri @ 13.403086
7 north-ossetian @ 14.408566
8 nogai @ 15.749029
9 armenian @ 16.545271
10 turkmen @ 16.800917
11 ashkenazy-jew @ 17.111652
12 kurd @ 17.159468
13 stalskoe @ 17.255957
14 kumyk @ 17.305939
15 iranian @ 17.534994
16 ashkenazi @ 18.274668
17 uzbekistan-jew @ 19.108606
18 kurd @ 19.143425
19 iraqi-arab @ 19.347269
20 iranian @ 19.366077

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% turk-aydin +50% turk-aydin @ 4.407533


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% turk-aydin +25% turk-aydin +25% turkmen @ 2.570525


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 cypriot + tajik + turk-aydin + turk-aydin @ 1.902630
2 ashkenazy-jew + iranian + nogai + turk-aydin @ 2.047591
3 georgia-jew + nogai + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.108006
4 azerbaijan-jew + nogai + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.141038
5 georgia-jew + nogai + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.164227
6 georgia-jew + nogai + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.175128
7 lebanese-druze + nogai + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.184365
8 ashkenazi + azeri + turk-aydin + turkmen @ 2.186489
9 lebanese-druze + nogai + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.191576
10 ashkenazi + turk + turk-aydin + turkmen @ 2.192793
11 azerbaijan-jew + nogai + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.199294
12 lebanese-druze + nogai + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.202230
13 azerbaijan-jew + nogai + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.210296
14 ashkenazi + turk-aydin + turk-istanbul + turkmen @ 2.224763
15 ashkenazy-jew + turk-aydin + turk-istanbul + turkmen @ 2.245029
16 armenian + azeri + tuscan + uzbek @ 2.253581
17 ashkenazy-jew + north-ossetian + turk-aydin + turkmen @ 2.259031
18 ashkenazy-jew + kurd + nogai + turk-aydin @ 2.275799
19 armenian + azeri + tuscan + uzbek @ 2.278363
20 armenian + azeri + tuscan + uzbek @ 2.298996

redifflal
10-22-2014, 06:58 PM
Has anyone here transferred from Genographic to FTDNA and then tried to upload to GEDMatch? I am at this link https://my.familytreedna.com/family-finder/downloads.aspx and none of the Build 37 or Build 36 links let me download anything. I just get "No such key" when I try to download.

dp
10-22-2014, 07:06 PM
Has anyone here transferred from Genographic to FTDNA and then tried to upload to GEDMatch? I am at this link https://my.familytreedna.com/family-finder/downloads.aspx and none of the Build 37 or Build 36 links let me download anything. I just get "No such key" when I try to download.

Not sure where you having trouble. I clicked the link (above) that I had given you. Since I was already logged in it came right up. I clicked on one of the selections and it downloaded. Are you using Google Chrome. I ask because I had problems with this site until I gave up using Internet Explorer.
dp :-)
PS: What kind of "key"

redifflal
10-22-2014, 07:09 PM
Not sure where you having trouble. I clicked the link (above) that I had given you. Since I was already logged in it came right up. I clicked on one of the selections and it downloaded. Are you using Google Chrome. I ask because I had problems with this site until I gave up using Internet Explorer.
dp :-)
PS: What kind of "key"

I tried both Safari and Firefox so far. I can give Chrome a try. This is what I got with both.
NoSuchKeyThe specified key does not exist.secure/a4/dc8d/b0-/a027-47f4-a225-4baa0ffc9bb6/ffo37-a4dc8db0-a027-47f4-a225-4baa0ffc9bb6.csv.gz8EBC6BF1B74B361ExNocOGsR6Sqarcz tXZzwX9IEbxO0pq5tQ2wEOpUAqgmyP3+yddphEnx2q7gz96t2C GZVM4xkAuM=


EDIT: Same happened with Chrome :(

dp
10-22-2014, 07:16 PM
I have no idea. sorry.
dp :noidea:

jesus
01-19-2015, 09:09 PM
Kandahari Pashtun

Population Percent
1 Baloch 36.72
2 Caucasian 26.25
3 S-Indian 14.96
4 NE-Euro 11.42
5 SW-Asian 4.12
6 Siberian 2.48
7 NE-Asian 2.01
8 American 0.84
9 Beringian 0.73
10 Mediterranean 0.3
11 W-African 0.08
12 San 0.08

Population (source) Distance
1 pashtun (harappa) 7.75
2 kalash (hgdp) 12.01
3 tajik (yunusbayev) 12.54
4 pathan (hgdp) 13.09
5 sindhi (harappa) 15.89
6 turkmen (yunusbayev) 16.08
7 burusho (hgdp) 16.81
8 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 16.84
9 bhatia (harappa) 17.57
10 kashmiri (harappa) 17.68
11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 19.18
12 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 19.66
13 haryana-jatt (harappa) 19.91
14 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 20.7
15 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 20.88
16 iranian (harappa) 21.02
17 balochi (hgdp) 21.58
18 iranian (behar) 21.65
19 punjabi (harappa) 21.69
20 sindhi (hgdp) 22.03

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.2% bhatia (harappa) + 38.8% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 2.81
2 68.2% pathan (hgdp) + 31.8% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 3.02
3 55.6% sindhi (hgdp) + 44.4% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 3.12
4 61.9% sindhi (harappa) + 38.1% lezgin (behar) @ 3.23
5 69.8% kalash (hgdp) + 30.2% azeri (harappa) @ 3.24
6 75.2% pathan (hgdp) + 24.8% georgian (harappa) @ 3.41
7 66.7% bhatia (harappa) + 33.3% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 3.43
8 73.2% pathan (hgdp) + 26.8% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 3.47
9 60.8% bhatia (harappa) + 39.2% azeri (harappa) @ 3.47
10 72.9% kalash (hgdp) + 27.1% turk (behar) @ 3.51
11 64.4% kalash (hgdp) + 35.6% iranian (harappa) @ 3.52
12 70.4% kalash (hgdp) + 29.6% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 3.53
13 63.8% sindhi (harappa) + 36.2% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 3.57
14 66.4% bhatia (harappa) + 33.6% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 3.59
15 72.5% kalash (hgdp) + 27.5% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) @ 3.64
16 68.7% kalash (hgdp) + 31.3% kurd (yunusbayev) @ 3.66
17 57.9% sindhi (hgdp) + 42.1% chechen (yunusbayev) @ 3.69
18 66.7% pathan (hgdp) + 33.3% kurd (yunusbayev) @ 3.71
19 73% pathan (hgdp) + 27% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 3.72
20 73.1% kalash (hgdp) + 26.9% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) @ 3.74

ZephyrousMandaru
01-19-2015, 09:44 PM
I wonder if Zack is still working on that new calculator he mentioned in a blog entry in May 2014. It'd be interesting to have preview of what it was.

jesus
05-12-2015, 03:35 PM
My Results VS Mumbai Parsi. Kinda surprised by her 2% African and Over 2% East Eurasian, however the higher east Eurasian can be due to because of their Khorasani Origin. Most of the components are very similar, other than the south Indian one.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 31.64% - 28%
2 Baloch 26.26% - 28%
3 SW-Asian 15.71% - 12%
4 S-Indian 8.62% - 16%
5 Mediterranean 5.08% - 4%
6 W-African 3.85% - 0
7 NE-Euro 3.74% - 5%
8 American 1.52% - 1%
9 E-African 1.42% - 1%
10 Papuan 0.85% - 0%
11 Beringian 0.6% - 2%
12 San 0.42% - 1%
13 Pygmy 0.3% - 0
14 Siberian 0 - 1%
15 SE Asian 0 - 1%

The Barnacle
05-12-2015, 03:39 PM
My Results VS Mumbai Parsi. Kinda surprised by her 2% African and Over 2% East Eurasian, however the higher east Eurasian can be due to because of their Khorasani Origin. Most of the components are very similar, other than the south Indian one.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 31.64% - 28%
2 Baloch 26.26% - 28%
3 SW-Asian 15.71% - 12%
4 S-Indian 8.62% - 16%
5 Mediterranean 5.08% - 4%
6 W-African 3.85% - 0
7 NE-Euro 3.74% - 5%
8 American 1.52% - 1%
9 E-African 1.42% - 1%
10 Papuan 0.85% - 0%
11 Beringian 0.6% - 2%
12 San 0.42% - 1%
13 Pygmy 0.3% - 0
14 Siberian 0 - 1%
15 SE Asian 0 - 1%

I find it so fascinating how they kept to themselves. I mean where did the parsis come from? Khorasan Afghanistan ? Or Iran khorasan? We still haven't had any results posted by actual Tajiks from Afghanistan within the khorasan borders ( Herat, Farah etc ) to compare their results. Maybe for all we know the Mumbai parsis results are identical to heratis?...or similar. I suspect Western afghans would have around 11-13% South indian, 22-29% Caucasian, 31-34% baloch and SW Asian being over 6%.

jesus
05-12-2015, 03:49 PM
I find it so fascinating how they kept to themselves. I mean where did the parsis come from? Khorasan Afghanistan ? Or Iran khorasan? We still haven't had any results posted by actual Tajiks from Afghanistan within the khorasan borders ( Herat, Farah etc ) to compare their results. Maybe for all we know the Mumbai parsis results are identical to heratis?

We don't have results from Western Afghanistan yet, if you have any friends from Herat or Farah convince them to get genotyped :P

There is one Iranian Khorasani and he has much higher NE Euro than Parsi and around 8% South Indian. They are probably gonna be similar to him, probably with slightly higher Euro and south Asian + a lower Middle eastern Pull. That's just speculation tho.

Some Sources say that they came from Merv, Modern day Turkmenistan. A lot of sources mentions that they were originally Khorasani.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b286/Paniranism/KhorasanMap.jpg

The Barnacle
05-12-2015, 03:54 PM
We don't have results from Western Afghanistan yet, if you have any friends from Herat or Farah convince them to get genotyped :P

There is one Iranian Khorasani and he has much higher NE Euro than Parsi and around 8% South Indian. They are probably gonna be similar to him, probably with slightly higher Euro and south Asian + a lower Middle eastern Pull. That's just speculation tho.

Some Sources say that they came from Merv, Modern day Turkmenistan. A lot of sources mentions that they were originally Khorasani.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b286/Paniranism/KhorasanMap.jpg

We'll if anyone is going to get a test it gon be me lol . Zahra has relatives from Herat and Farah I think.

jesus
05-12-2015, 04:07 PM
We'll if anyone is going to get a test it gon be me lol . Zahra has relatives from Herat and Farah I think.

Her relatives are Durrani so they're gonna have similar results to her most likely, the Persian speaking population in Western Afghanistan is probably gonna be different from Other Tajiks/persian speakers like Tajiks from Tajikistan or Panjshiris. It would be very interesting to see the results of a full Afghan Qizilbash.

surbakhunWeesste
05-12-2015, 04:15 PM
Her relatives are Durrani so they're gonna have similar results to her most likely, the Persian speaking population in Western Afghanistan is probably gonna be different from Other Tajiks/persian speakers like Tajiks from Tajikistan or Panjshiris. It would be very interesting to see the results of a full Afghan Qizilbash.

They are strictly Sadozais and Alakozais. Herat has a lot of Barakzais as well.

The Barnacle
05-12-2015, 04:54 PM
Her relatives are Durrani so they're gonna have similar results to her most likely, the Persian speaking population in Western Afghanistan is probably gonna be different from Other Tajiks/persian speakers like Tajiks from Tajikistan or Panjshiris. It would be very interesting to see the results of a full Afghan Qizilbash.

My paternal grandmother was a Persian speaking PASHTUN Shia LOL. Talk about one confused person. Did she have Qizilbash ancestry? I don't know the history of Qizilbash in Kandahar Sooo....

The Barnacle
05-12-2015, 04:56 PM
They are strictly Sadozais and Alakozais. Herat has a lot of Barakzais as well.

Btw Zahra have you heard of the fermuli tribe? My maternal great grandmother was pashtun from the suburbs of Kabul whose origins were from paktika province in Southern Afghanistan.

surbakhunWeesste
05-12-2015, 05:00 PM
Btw Zahra have you heard of the fermuli tribe? My maternal great grandmother was pashtun from the suburbs of Kabul whose origins were from paktika province in Southern Afghanistan.

Yes, I have. What do you elders say about the fermuli origins?

The Barnacle
05-12-2015, 05:34 PM
Yes, I have. What do you elders say about the fermuli origins?

My grandad said they were originally from paktika that's all. He's Persian speaking however. Seems most of my pashtun ancestry are mostly Persianised Durrani Pashtuns.

pegasus
05-14-2015, 09:00 PM
My paternal grandmother was a Persian speaking PASHTUN Shia LOL. Talk about one confused person. Did she have Qizilbash ancestry? I don't know the history of Qizilbash in Kandahar Sooo....

Qizilbash ancestry would most probably come via Tajiks. Qizilbash feature quite prominently in the history of Iran, Jesus would be an expert on that, and he himself is of Qizilbash ancestry.
I know there are a few Pashtun tribes which are Shiite , yup they do exist.

The Barnacle
05-14-2015, 09:04 PM
Qizilbash ancestry would most probably come via Tajiks. Qizilbash feature quite prominently in the history of Iran, Jesus would be an expert on that, and he himself is of Qizilbash ancestry.
I know there are a few Pashtun tribes which are Shiite , yup they do exist.

Yeah ehsan Bayat is one.( founder of Ariana tv and the fall of the younger generation of afghans in the west lol). She was popalzai. I can't believe I'm the only one in the family who may have a lead on this. Tbh my grandmothers background is pretty much unknown because she married my grandad at a young age, so got separated from her region quite early on. All I know was that she came from a rich background and was Shia etc

surbakhunWeesste
05-14-2015, 10:51 PM
My grandad said they were originally from paktika that's all. He's Persian speaking however. Seems most of my pashtun ancestry are mostly Persianised Durrani Pashtuns.

Some Nawabs of Oudh and vicinity and their descendants claim some Fermuli ancestry as well and its well known they were Khorasanian Persians from present day Nishapur, Iran. You should look more into it. Fermulis most likely are Lodhi Pashtuns under Bettani. If you can give me the last names used in your family I can ask my grandma, she has extensive knowledge on this matter.

The Barnacle
05-14-2015, 11:20 PM
Some Nawabs of Oudh and vicinity and their descendants claim some Fermuli ancestry as well and its well known they were Khorasanian Persians from present day Nishapur, Iran. You should look more into it. Fermulis most likely are Lodhi Pashtuns under Bettani. If you can give me the last names used in your family I can ask my grandma, she has extensive knowledge on this matter.

Thanks for that Zahra although one slight problem is my grandad was an orphan at the age of seven. Let's hope he has enough knowledge about his mother.

The Barnacle
05-14-2015, 11:33 PM
Some Nawabs of Oudh and vicinity and their descendants claim some Fermuli ancestry as well and its well known they were Khorasanian Persians from present day Nishapur, Iran. You should look more into it. Fermulis most likely are Lodhi Pashtuns under Bettani. If you can give me the last names used in your family I can ask my grandma, she has extensive knowledge on this matter.

There's very little info about the fermuli tribe. Please ask your grandmother about them because I'm really curious about them. In another source I read that the fermuli were Persian speaking Pashtuns.

jesus
05-14-2015, 11:48 PM
There's very little info about the fermuli tribe. Please ask your grandmother about them because I'm really curious about them. In another source I read that the fermuli were Persian speaking Pashtuns.

This soruce lists them under Tajiks

http://i.imgur.com/HFhwynS.png
https://books.google.com/books?id=xrY6AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=fermuli&source=bl&ots=PY8YeUk9jb&sig=WOt4lVG0hEgHbpsbsU8y7AVYSaE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0DFVVf2vBY_SoASEsoDwDw&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=fermuli&f=false

surbakhunWeesste
05-14-2015, 11:49 PM
There's very little info about the fermuli tribe. Please ask your grandmother about them because I'm really curious about them. In another source I read that the fermuli were Persian speaking Pashtuns.

Yes, that's true as well. There are Fermulis in Pakistan as well but perhaps there are cultural and origin differences. I found Durranis in India with a Sanskrit first name. "Pawan" = air Durrani which is an Umbrella term O_0. I am not sure if we have the same lineage, its just a name.
Anyway the Nawabs were Persians and you said your family speaks dari, it could be that there was a common ancestor. Your ancestors were Pashtun-fied and mixed with other Pashtuns!
Just because if Fermuli falls under Lodhi-Bettani doesn't always mean there is a genetic lineage, its more about customs and ties and many other factors. I will ask her and let you know soon. btw the Nawab stuff came from her, I did asked her sometimes back.

The Barnacle
05-14-2015, 11:52 PM
Yes, that's true as well. There are Fermulis in Pakistan as well but perhaps there are cultural and origin differences. I found Durranis in India with a Sanskrit first name. "Pawan" = air Durrani which is an Umbrella term O_0. I am not sure if we have the same lineage, its just a name.
Anyway the Nawabs were Persians and you said your family speaks dari, it could be that there was a common ancestor. Your ancestors were Pashtun-fied and mixed with other Pashtuns!
Just because if Fermuli falls under Lodhi-Bettani doesn't always mean there is a genetic lineage, its more about customs and ties and many other factors. I will ask her and let you know soon. btw the Nawab stuff came from her, I did asked her sometimes back.

I just did some reading. I'm unsure whether it was my great grandad who was fermuli or great grandmother. If it was my great grandad his name was Bahadur khan( the nawabs use that name). Does that lead to anything?

Infact over here in London my grandads family( Bahadur ) is one of the most well known Farsiwans.

jesus
05-15-2015, 12:48 AM
Qizilbash ancestry would most probably come via Tajiks. Qizilbash feature quite prominently in the history of Iran, Jesus would be an expert on that, and he himself is of Qizilbash ancestry.
I know there are a few Pashtun tribes which are Shiite , yup they do exist.

Qizilbash was more of a movement rather than an ethnic group. The movement originated from NW Iran and Modern day the republic of Azerbaijan, it was Originally Azeri but later it include A lot of Kurds, Lurs, Persians and some Anatolian Turks. It started as a religious movement. They were a principal factor in creating the Safavid state, they also played a major role in the Afsharid, Qajar and Zand Empires. Qajars and Afshar were Qizilbash from the early days of the movement. They were used as troops and administrators by other non Iranian Empires, like the Sadozais, Barakzais, Mughals and some Nawabs.

Some Armenians, Georgians and other North Caucasians were Qizilbash, after they converted(Forced) to Shia Islam.

Jalairs, Bayats and Jawanshirs are of Azeri Origin. The Shirazis and Khafis are most likely of Persian Origin.



http://i.imgur.com/RRDNveX.png
http://i.imgur.com/IBVntsX.png
http://i.imgur.com/WJEZyzs.png
http://i.imgur.com/En0NDOT.png
http://i.imgur.com/TDWhUn3.png



https://books.google.com/books?id=ylTi-e2C_0IC&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=qizilbash+afghanistan&source=bl&ots=aa8b3qVDIm&sig=WtAYY0XkClPkGFZmOoYunpEaMOI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LzhVVarSBo3KogSLzoPIDg&ved=0CFEQ6AEwCg#v=onepage&q=qizilbash%20afghanistan&f=false

The Barnacle
05-15-2015, 12:55 AM
Qizilbash was more of a movement rather than an ethnic group. The movement originated from NW Iran and Modern day the republic of Azerbaijan, it was Originally Azeri but later it include A lot of Kurds, Lurs, Persians and some Anatolian Turks. It started as a religious movement. They were a principal factor in creating the Safavid state, they also played a major role in the Afsharid, Qajar and Zand Empires. Qajars and Afshar were Qizilbash from the early days of the movement. They were used as troops and administrators by other non Iranian Empires, like the Sadozais, Barakzais, Mughals and some Nawabs.

Some Armenians, Georgians and other North Caucasians were Qizilbash, after they converted(Forced) to Shia Islam.

Jalairs, Bayats and Jawanshirs are of Azeri Origin. The Shirazis and Khafis are most likely of Persian Origin.



http://i.imgur.com/RRDNveX.png
http://i.imgur.com/IBVntsX.png
http://i.imgur.com/WJEZyzs.png
http://i.imgur.com/En0NDOT.png
http://i.imgur.com/TDWhUn3.png



https://books.google.com/books?id=ylTi-e2C_0IC&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=qizilbash+afghanistan&source=bl&ots=aa8b3qVDIm&sig=WtAYY0XkClPkGFZmOoYunpEaMOI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LzhVVarSBo3KogSLzoPIDg&ved=0CFEQ6AEwCg#v=onepage&q=qizilbash%20afghanistan&f=false

I'm certain I've got Qizilbash ancestry. Many Shias kept their identity a secret and that could've been the case with my grandmother.

jesus
05-15-2015, 01:02 AM
I'm certain I've got Qizilbash ancestry. Many Shias kept their identity a secret and that could've been the case with my grandmother.

Was your grandmother a convert ? Because I know some people who converted to either Shia or Sunni Islam and hid it from their families. It happens. I'm asking you this because I've heard about Shia Pashtuns in Knadahar, but it's a big a city. I've heard about The Bangash and Turis. Were her parents Shia ?

The Barnacle
05-15-2015, 01:29 AM
Was your grandmother a convert ? Because I know some people who converted to either Shia or Sunni Islam and hid it from their families. It happens. I'm asking you this because I've heard about Shia Pashtuns in Knadahar, but it's a big a city. I've heard about The Bangash and Turis. Were her parents Shia ?

Yep when she married my grandfather who was a judge located in Kandahar. She converted from Shia to Sunni, that's why when I mentioned the possibility of Qizilbash ancestry my father seemed suprised at first.

The Barnacle
05-15-2015, 01:35 AM
The bangash and turis are within Pakistan. It's the turis actually who have Shia ancestry but not Qizilbash ancestry, they got converted at a different time.

I'm guessing my grandmothers famiky were assimilated within the pashtun community, she was a popalzai. But her family were Persian speaking Shias, do you think it's a high chance Qizilbash ancestry?

Now knowing this, I'm not suprised my dad's family has a lot of family members including me , my siblings and father who can easily pass in azerbaijan, turkey etc. it's far fetched but gets you thinking.

rockman
05-15-2015, 04:51 AM
Some Nawabs of Oudh and vicinity and their descendants claim some Fermuli ancestry as well and its well known they were Khorasanian Persians from present day Nishapur, Iran. You should look more into it. Fermulis most likely are Lodhi Pashtuns under Bettani. If you can give me the last names used in your family I can ask my grandma, she has extensive knowledge on this matter.

Could you expand on this? I have ancestry from the Nawabs of Oudh (my grandmother was a great grand daughter of Wajid Ali Shah). Who are the Fermuli?

Also with all this talk of Qizilbash I wonder if I have ancestry from them as well. I'm Shia with a bit of Caucasian/Turkic ancestry. I know I have descent from the Black Sheep Turkomens and the Qizilbash themselves comprised of many Oghuz Turkic Shias.

For reference here are my FTDNA and Harappa results:

4577

S Indian 30%
Baloch 27%
Caucasian 17%
NE Euro 6%
SE Asian 3%
Siberian 3%
NE Asian 2%
Papuan 1%
American 1%
Beringian 1%
Mediterranean 3%
SW Asian 5%
San 1%
East African 1%

jesus
05-15-2015, 05:31 AM
Could you expand on this? I have ancestry from the Nawabs of Oudh (my grandmother was a great grand daughter of Wajid Ali Shah). Who are the Fermuli?

Also with all this talk of Qizilbash I wonder if I have ancestry from them as well. I'm Shia with a bit of Caucasian/Turkic ancestry. I know I have descent from the Black Sheep Turkomens and the Qizilbash themselves comprised of many Oghuz Turkic Shias.

For reference here are my FTDNA and Harappa results:

4577

S Indian 30%
Baloch 27%
Caucasian 17%
NE Euro 6%
SE Asian 3%
Siberian 3%
NE Asian 2%
Papuan 1%
American 1%
Beringian 1%
Mediterranean 3%
SW Asian 5%
San 1%
East African 1%

You should check the ethnicities of your West/Central Asian relatives in Gedmatch and FTDNA if you want to know more about your West Asian ancestry.
I have a relative from India in 23andme, He told me he had distant Iranian Ancestry. His Y-dna is J2. The of Nawab of Awadh Came of Modern Day NE Iranian. Here is a results of an Iranian Khorasani:

http://i.imgur.com/3AUyapB.png

The black sheep confederation was overrun by the white sheep Turkoman. In the time of the Black sheep, the Qizilbash didn't exist, and even if they did they were not as powerful as they were in the late 1400s. A lot of the Qizilbash tribes were of Black sheep origin.

Some say the Qutub Shahi was of Black sheep origin.

http://www.mapsofindia.com/history/qutb-shahi-dynasty-map.jpg

Kara Koyunlu/Black sheep turkoman state

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Qara_Qoyunlu_Turcomans_1407–1468.png

The Turkmen used in Harappa and most of Gedmatch calculators differ a lot from Turkmen from Uzbekistan and Afghanistan. They are way less East Eurasian and more " Iranian " shifted than the ones in Uzbekistan and Afghanistan. They even show up as my 4th or 5th population and I don't have any Siberian or NE Asian components.

surbakhunWeesste
05-15-2015, 05:43 AM
Could you expand on this? I have ancestry from the Nawabs of Oudh (my grandmother was a great grand daughter of Wajid Ali Shah). Who are the Fermuli?

Also with all this talk of Qizilbash I wonder if I have ancestry from them as well. I'm Shia with a bit of Caucasian/Turkic ancestry. I know I have descent from the Black Sheep Turkomens and the Qizilbash themselves comprised of many Oghuz Turkic Shias.

For reference here are my FTDNA and Harappa results:

4577

S Indian 30%
Baloch 27%
Caucasian 17%
NE Euro 6%
SE Asian 3%
Siberian 3%
NE Asian 2%
Papuan 1%
American 1%
Beringian 1%
Mediterranean 3%
SW Asian 5%
San 1%
East African 1%

Interesting, do you or your family identify as Pashtun or Pathan as they say in India? Jesus posted quite some information on it. Very less is known about Fermuli, I will ask for more information if she has any and will post here.

rockman
05-15-2015, 05:44 AM
You should check the ethnicities of your West/Central Asian relatives in Gedmatch and FTDNA if you want to know more about your West Asian ancestry.
I have a relative from India in 23andme, He told me he had distant Iranian Ancestry. His Y-dna is J2. The of Nawab of Awadh Came of Modern Day NE Iranian. Here is a results of an Iranian Khorasani:

http://i.imgur.com/3AUyapB.png

The black sheep confederation was overrun by the white sheep Turkoman. In the time of the Black sheep, the Qizilbash didn't exist, and even if they did they were not as powerful as they were in the late 1400s. A lot of the Qizilbash tribes were of Black sheep origin.

Some say the Qutub Shahi was of Black sheep origin.

http://www.mapsofindia.com/history/qutb-shahi-dynasty-map.jpg

Kara Koyunlu/Black sheep turkoman state

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Qara_Qoyunlu_Turcomans_1407–1468.png

The Turkmen used in Harappa and most of Gedmatch calculators differ a lot from Turkmen from Uzbekistan and Afghanistan. They are way less East Eurasian and more " Iranian " shifted than the ones in Uzbekistan and Afghanistan. They even show up as my 4th or 5th population and I don't have any Siberian or NE Asian components.

Yes actually I have ancestry from the Qutb Shahi king Tana Shah.

I have one relative I found on FTDNA from Kuwait who is of mixed Iranian, Arab, and maybe Caucasian/Turkic ancestry:

4578

rockman
05-15-2015, 05:51 AM
Interesting, do you or your family identify as Pashtun or Pathan as they say in India? Jesus posted quite some information on it. Very less is known about Fermuli, I will ask for more information if she has any and will post here.

No we don't have any relation or ancestry as far as I know with pathans. Our history is really muddy and I sort of had to put together the pieces from what I know. I know we have Indian (UP and Bengali), Iranian, Turkic ancestry (often referred to as Central Asian) and there might be some east asian given stories of an east asian ancestor. I wouldn't be surprised since a few Iranians did intermix with Bengalis, Burmese, Assamese etc. along with Northern Indians.

jesus
05-15-2015, 05:56 AM
Yes actually I have ancestry from the Qutb Shahi king Tana Shah.

I have one relative I found on FTDNA from Kuwait who is of mixed Iranian, Arab, and maybe Caucasian/Turkic ancestry:

4578

That's pretty awesome, can you tell me or PM me his last name or his full name ? Kuwait has all kinds of Ethnicites found in Iran, but the majority are of Persian and Lur ancestry.

My Origins from FTDNA:

http://i.imgur.com/7UqHmdp.png

ZephyrousMandaru
05-15-2015, 05:56 AM
Wrong thread please delete.

rockman
05-15-2015, 06:03 AM
That's pretty awesome, can you tell me or PM me his last name or his full name ? Kuwait has all kinds of Ethnicites found in Iran, but the majority are of Persian and Lur ancestry.

My Origins from FTDNA:

http://i.imgur.com/7UqHmdp.png

I can't share her name but this is the FTDNA for her:
4580

Where are you from?

bored
05-15-2015, 06:30 AM
Does anyone know if Zack Ajmal is still alive? I was kinda hoping that he would put me in the database before dying. It's been almost a year since I submitted my data.

Kaido
05-15-2015, 06:49 AM
Does anyone know if Zack Ajmal is still alive? I was kinda hoping that he would put me in the database before dying. It's been almost a year since I submitted my data.

I googled his name and it seems he's still around online, probably just taking a break from the Harappa project I guess.

jesus
05-15-2015, 06:49 AM
I can't share her name but this is the FTDNA for her:
4580

Where are you from?

I Pmed you my ethnic background in detail.

Did you contact her and ask her about her ethnic background ? She scores 9% Eastern Middle east, and 3% North African, 1% East African more than me. I get 9% Higher Central Asian, and 2% West African. 25% Overall difference, not bad. She probably has a similar background to mine, other than the Arab ancestry.

The Barnacle
05-15-2015, 10:50 AM
Could you expand on this? I have ancestry from the Nawabs of Oudh (my grandmother was a great grand daughter of Wajid Ali Shah). Who are the Fermuli?

Also with all this talk of Qizilbash I wonder if I have ancestry from them as well. I'm Shia with a bit of Caucasian/Turkic ancestry. I know I have descent from the Black Sheep Turkomens and the Qizilbash themselves comprised of many Oghuz Turkic Shias.

For reference here are my FTDNA and Harappa results:

4577

S Indian 30%
Baloch 27%
Caucasian 17%
NE Euro 6%
SE Asian 3%
Siberian 3%
NE Asian 2%
Papuan 1%
American 1%
Beringian 1%
Mediterranean 3%
SW Asian 5%
San 1%
East African 1%

What's your Indian side from? Uttar Pradesh? Lucknow? If it is then you defintley hsvd recent admixture, you hsvd a very high Caucasian, Mediterranean and soutwest Asian score for an Indian and low South Indian. The fermuli are a tribe from Afghanistan, little is known about them. They are mainly from Kabul and Persian speaking. I will defintley ask my grandfather about them.

rockman
05-15-2015, 09:40 PM
My family is from UP and West Bengal. I would say in the past 100 years mainly Bengal.

The Barnacle
05-15-2015, 09:47 PM
My family is from UP and West Bengal. I would say in the past 100 years mainly Bengal.

Then undoubtedly you obviously have recent admixture. You hsvd a very high Caucasian score for a Bengali.

rockman
05-15-2015, 10:42 PM
Then undoubtedly you obviously have recent admixture. You hsvd a very high Caucasian score for a Bengali.

My family I would say for at least 4-5 generations have been heavily mixed and have intermarried with similar people. Shias in North India are generally mixed and I would say most might have at least a few Iranian ancestors 4-5 generations ago. So it is relatively recent if that is your definition.

Sein
05-17-2015, 05:16 AM
For those of you who've wondered how northern Afghan Pashtuns stack up in terms of genetics, I finally found some public results. These are from another forum. The individual in question is 75% Laghmani Afghan Pashtun, and 25% Laghmani Afghan Tajik.

Baloch=37.75%
S-Indian=22.22%
Caucasian=20.24%
NE-Euro=10.84%
SW-Asian=3.52%
American=2.15%
Beringian=1.26%
Siberian=1.1%
Papuan=0.59%
SE-Asian=0.32%

As I predicted, these results are interchangeable with most Pakistani Pashtuns from Bajaur, Mohmand, and tribal Pashtun folk from the settled districts of northern KPK. In fact, this individual is quite similar to Adam, who is of Swati Yusufzai heritage.

That's the case despite him being 25% Tajik. Although, based on this individual's results, Laghmani Tajiks are probably identical in broad autosomal genetics to the HGDP "Pathans".

His FTDNA results:

Central Asia=53%
South Asia=22%
Asia Minor=16%
Finland and Northern Siberia=5%
Eastern Europe=3%
Native American=1%

Compared to me:

Central Asia=58%
South Asia=18%
Asia Minor=8%
Finland and Northern Siberia=7%
Northeast Asia=4%
Eastern Middle East=3%
Native American=2%

My "Central Asia" score is slightly higher, my "South Asia" score is slightly lower, my Siberian-Native American connection is much stronger, and I'm also less Near Eastern.

jesus
05-17-2015, 05:35 AM
For those of you who've wondered how northern Afghan Pashtuns stack up in terms of genetics, I finally found some public results. These are from another forum. The individual in question is 75% Laghmani Afghan Pashtun, and 25% Laghmani Afghan Tajik.

Baloch=37.75%
S-Indian=22.22%
Caucasian=20.24%
NE-Euro=10.84%
SW-Asian=3.52%
American=2.15%
Beringian=1.26%
Siberian=1.1%
Papuan=0.59%
SE-Asian=0.32%

As I predicted, these results are interchangeable with most Pakistani Pashtuns from Bajaur, Mohmand, and tribal Pashtun folk from the settled districts of northern KPK. In fact, this individual is quite similar to Adam, who is of Swati Yusufzai heritage.

That's the case despite him being 25% Tajik. Although, based on this individual's results, Laghmani Tajiks are probably identical in broad autosomal genetics to the HGDP "Pathans".

His FTDNA results:

Central Asia=53%
South Asia=22%
Asia Minor=16%
Finland and Northern Siberia=5%
Eastern Europe=3%
Native American=1%

Compared to me:

Central Asia=58%
South Asia=18%
Asia Minor=8%
Finland and Northern Siberia=7%
Northeast Asia=4%
Eastern Middle East=3%
Native American=2%

My "Central Asia" score is slightly higher, my "South Asia" score is slightly lower, my Siberian-Native American connection is much stronger, and I'm also less Near Eastern.

Isn't Laghman located Eastern Afghanistan ?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Laghman_in_Afghanistan.svg/250px-Laghman_in_Afghanistan.svg.png


Those are Pashtuns from Northern Afghanistan, they seem to be closer to the Durrani average when it comes to the south Indian and Caucasian %

http://i.imgur.com/s0MlB08.png

Sein
05-17-2015, 05:46 AM
Isn't Laghman located Eastern Afghanistan ?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Laghman_in_Afghanistan.svg/250px-Laghman_in_Afghanistan.svg.png


Those are Pashtuns from Northern Afghanistan, they seem to be closer to the Durrani average when it comes to the south Indian and Caucasian %

http://i.imgur.com/s0MlB08.png

In a Pashtun-centric understanding of Afghanistan, Laghman, Kunar, Nangarhar, and Nuristan are basically northern Afghanistan, as these are the most northern areas traditionally inhabited by ethnic Afghans (ethnic Afghans being Pashtuns).

The Di Cristofaro samples do resemble the Durrani average for these components. But this is due to the fact that these samples come from Pashtuns of Durrani and southern Ghilji background. These Pashtun communities are recent transplants to the far north. Some of the Ghilji clans were banished by Amir Abdur Rahman to this region, far away from their kin, and some came later for economic reasons. Durrani Kochi groups were granted pasturage rights in these areas, by the Amir himself.

So these aren't really Northern Afghan Pashtuns, just southwestern Afghan Pashtuns living for a few generations in far northern Afghanistan.

jesus
05-17-2015, 06:07 AM
In a Pashtun-centric understanding of Afghanistan, Laghman, Kunar, Nangarhar, and Nuristan are basically northern Afghanistan, as these are the most northern areas traditionally inhabited by ethnic Afghans (ethnic Afghans being Pashtuns).

The Di Cristofaro samples do resemble the Durrani average for these components. But this is due to the fact that these samples come from Pashtuns of Durrani and southern Ghilji background. These Pashtun communities are recent transplants to the far north. Some of the Ghilji clans were banished by Amir Abdur Rahman to this region, far away from their kin, and some came later for economic reasons. Durrani Kochi groups were granted pasturage rights in these areas, by the Amir himself.

So these aren't really Northern Afghan Pashtuns, just southwestern Afghan Pashtuns living for a few generations in far northern Afghanistan.

Forced migration was used a lot to punish certain rebellious tribes around the region .There was also a trend of moving " loyal " ethnic groups to the frontier as way of border control, But how can we be so sure about their ethnic and tribal origin ? How can we be sure that all of them were moved from the south ? were all Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan deported/moved from other regions ?

The authors didn't mention anything regarding those questions.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076748

If they were all Ghilji, it's weird how they nearly Identical to Durrani Pashtuns. I also don't think their high east eurasian is due to their recent mixing with Turkics other than 6Af who has unusually high East Eurasian.

Sein
05-17-2015, 06:24 AM
Forced migration was used a lot to punish certain rebellious tribes around the region .There was also a trend of moving " loyal " ethnic groups to the frontier as way of border control, But how can we be so sure about their ethnic and tribal origin ? How can we be sure that all of them were moved from the south ? were all Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan deported/moved from other regions ?

The authors didn't mention anything regarding those questions.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076748

If they were all Ghilji, it's weird how they nearly Identical to Durrani Pashtuns. I also don't think their high east eurasian is due to their recent mixing with Turkics other than 6Af who has unusually high East Eurasian.

Certainly, forced migration is something we often see in the history of this region.

As to the question of how far north Pashtuns have lived in Afghanistan, Laghman, Kunar, Nangarhar, and a portion of Nuristan, constitute the northern limit of the traditional Pashtun region of Kabulistan, in contemporary Afghanistan. In Pakistan, the Pashto language ceases to be spoken, and the Pashtun tribal complex ceases to be recognized, north of Bajaur and the adjoining portion of KPK.

Beyond these areas, you enter a different ethnographic context. All Pashtuns in Baghlan, Kunduz, etc, are from further south. This far up north, Pashtuns are always a recent exogenous presence.

Also, we have some Ghilji results, and they've been identical to Durrani Pashtuns. Now, if we see Nasari Ghilji results, I'm sure they resemble the HGDP "Pathans", rather than the Durrani. But it makes sense for the western and southern Ghilji to be identical to Durrani, and for the eastern and northern Ghilji to be identical to Karlani Pashtuns (Karlani Pashtuns of all stripes, whether Afghan or Pakistani, have good representation via the HGDP samples).

Edit: The high East Eurasian is a bit of a fluke. Zack's run was brutally influenced by the calculator effect, his "official" ADMIXTURE run doubles the East Eurasian components for everyone, compared to both his DIY calculator and other ADMIXTURE runs.

For this reason, you can't compare the Di Cristofaro and HGDP samples, as they were tested under different conditions. For example, my East Eurasian components add up to 6% on DIY HarappaWorld, but to around 12% in Zack's recent "official" run (if my memory serves me right, I should double check).

Sapporo
05-17-2015, 07:03 AM
Certainly, forced migration is something we often see in the history of this region.

As to the question of how far north Pashtuns have lived in Afghanistan, Laghman, Kunar, Nangarhar, and a portion of Nuristan, constitute the northern limit of the traditional Pashtun region of Kabulistan, in contemporary Afghanistan. In Pakistan, the Pashto language ceases to be spoken, and the Pashtun tribal complex ceases to be recognized, north of Bajaur and the adjoining portion of KPK.

Beyond these areas, you enter a different ethnographic context. All Pashtuns in Baghlan, Kunduz, etc, are from further south. This far up north, Pashtuns are always a recent exogenous presence.

Also, we have some Ghilji results, and they've been identical to Durrani Pashtuns. Now, if we see Nasari Ghilji results, I'm sure they resemble the HGDP "Pathans", rather than the Durrani. But it makes sense for the western and southern Ghilji to be identical to Durrani, and for the eastern and northern Ghilji to be identical to Karlani Pashtuns (Karlani Pashtuns of all stripes, whether Afghan or Pakistani, have good representation via the HGDP samples).

Edit: The high East Eurasian is a bit of a fluke. Zack's run was brutally influenced by the calculator effect, his "official" ADMIXTURE run doubles the East Eurasian components for everyone, compared to both his DIY calculator and other ADMIXTURE runs.

For this reason, you can't compare the Di Cristofaro and HGDP samples, as they were tested under different conditions. For example, my East Eurasian components add up to 6% on DIY HarappaWorld, but to around 12% in Zack's recent "official" run (if my memory serves me right, I should double check).

Good point. I get around 6% East Eurasian collectively on Zack's official run (since I am post HRP0240) while getting just above 2% on DIY Harappaworld and ranging from 1-3% on most Gedmatch calculators.. These Di Cristofaro Pashtuns are getting:

Pashtun10_17Af: 7% (2% Papuan)
Pashtun2_20Af: 11%
Pashtun2_22Af: 9%
Pashtun2_6Af: 26%
Pashtun2_8Af: 9%

Although, I didn't include Papuan as East Eurasian. Also, Pashtun2_6Af is either mislabeled or has some other non Pashtun ancestry like HGDP0220 who is approximately 31% East Eurasian. In the case of HGDP0220 it is likely Hazara ancestry as Sein mentioned the HGDP Pashtuns are from around Parachinar which is dominated by Shia Turi and the Bangash.

http://www.harappadna.org/2013/07/pathan-pashtun-admixture-results/

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:10 PM
Forced migration was used a lot to punish certain rebellious tribes around the region .There was also a trend of moving " loyal " ethnic groups to the frontier as way of border control, But how can we be so sure about their ethnic and tribal origin ? How can we be sure that all of them were moved from the south ? were all Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan deported/moved from other regions ?

The authors didn't mention anything regarding those questions.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076748

If they were all Ghilji, it's weird how they nearly Identical to Durrani Pashtuns. I also don't think their high east eurasian is due to their recent mixing with Turkics other than 6Af who has unusually high East Eurasian.

Your right Jesus, not every Ghilzai in Northern afghsnistsn hsvd origins further down South. However forced migration did happen to an extent. The reason why I think so far based on 2 samples from eastern afghsnistsn, they are different from Durrani and Ghilzai Pashtuns is because of groups surrounding their area. There are pashayis living in nangahar and laghman provinces, that could be the reason why Eastern Pashtuns hsvd elevated South Indian scores despite their Caucasian, baloch, SW Asian and med scores being in the range of durranis and ghilzais.

FYI velvet ( laghmani Tajik pashtun )mentioned he had North Indian ancestry through his mothers side, Hence why his maternal grandfather had a South Asian phenotype.

Sein
05-17-2015, 09:15 PM
Your right Jesus, not every Ghilzai in Northern afghsnistsn hsvd origins further down South. However forced migration did happen to an extent. The reason why I think so far based on 2 samples from eastern afghsnistsn, they are different from Durrani and Ghilzai Pashtuns is because of groups surrounding their area. There are pashayis living in nangahar and laghman provinces, that could be the reason why Eastern Pashtuns hsvd elevated South Indian scores despite their Caucasian, baloch, SW Asian and med scores being in the range of durranis and ghilzais.

FYI velvet ( laghmani Tajik pashtun )mentioned he had North Indian ancestry through his mothers side, Hence why his maternal grandfather had a South Asian phenotype.

Bro,

All Ghilzai in northern Afghanistan are from further south.

Also, Velvet is 75% Pashtun and 25% Tajik. He made that up, to confuse people in his "classification" thread (people were guessing him as Jewish, Levantine, SE European, etc, so he wanted to see how that would effect the guesses. His maternal grandfather was an Afghan Pashtun. He doesn't have any Indian heritage).

In fact, he claims Iranian ancestry on his paternal line (ancestry from Iranian Persians), but based on his results, that must be very distant.

PS: Your inbox is full.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:17 PM
On the Topic of Zacks calculator doubling East eurasuan scores, now I understand why the afghsn Tajik from Kabul had such a high East eurasuan score. Here's his /her Harappa scores
Rounded to nearest percentage

Baloch : 24%
Caucasian: 19%
NE Asian : 13%
South Indian: 11%
NE euro: 10%
Siberian: 10%
SW Asian : 6%
SE Asian: 2%
Medeterreanan: 2%

So his or hers East Eurasian is not 25% but 12.5%? Where do the 12.5% go into then? The baloch Caucasian and South Indian ?

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:20 PM
Bro,

All Ghilzai in northern Afghanistan are from further south.

Also, Velvet is 75% Pashtun and 25% Tajik. He made that up, to confuse people in his "classification" thread (people were guessing him as Jewish, Levantine, SE European, etc, so he wanted to see how that would effect the guesses. His maternal grandfather was an Afghan Pashtun. He doesn't have any Indian heritage).

In fact, he claims Iranian ancestry on his paternal line (ancestry from Iranian Persians), but based on his results, that must be very distant.

PS: Your inbox is full.

I'll empty my inbox bro. I understand but on another thread after his classification thread he mentioned he had North Indian ancestry. This was after his ckassification. Someone asked him what's his ancestry and he said "pashtun/Persian /Tajik with North Indian ancestry through mothers side "

Sein
05-17-2015, 09:22 PM
On the Topic of Zacks calculator doubling East eurasuan scores, now I understand why the afghsn Tajik from Kabul had such a high East eurasuan score. Here's his /her Harappa scores
Rounded to nearest percentage

Baloch : 24%
Caucasian: 19%
NE Asian : 13%
South Indian: 11%
NE euro: 10%
Siberian: 10%
SW Asian : 6%
SE Asian: 2%
Medeterreanan: 2%

So his or hers East Eurasian is not 25% but 12.5%? Where do the 12.5% go into then? The baloch Caucasian and South Indian ?

It varies from person to person. Based on results from other calculators, this individual is actually more around 16% East Eurasian.

It tends to go from Baloch and NE-Euro.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:24 PM
It varies from person to person. Based on results from other calculators, this individual is actually more around 16% East Eurasian.

It tends to go from Baloch and NE-Euro.

Inbox has space now.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:27 PM
It varies from person to person. Based on results from other calculators, this individual is actually more around 16% East Eurasian.

It tends to go from Baloch and NE-Euro.

Why 16%? East eurasuan components added up is around 25%. So 12.5%?

Never mind I read it again lol

Sein
05-17-2015, 09:28 PM
I'll empty my inbox bro. I understand but on another thread after his classification thread he mentioned he had North Indian ancestry. This was after his ckassification. Someone asked him what's his ancestry and he said "pashtun/Persian /Tajik with North Indian ancestry through mothers side "

Bro, I can't find him saying that after the classification thread. His clearest statement of ancestry is:

"Background: 3/4 Afghan Pashtun and 1/4 Afghan Tajik."

About his mother:

"...my mother is Pashtun."

Sein
05-17-2015, 09:30 PM
Why 16%? East eurasuan components added up is around 25%. So 12.5%?

Never mind I read it again lol

I have his file (I'm actually the one who sent it). On other calculators, he is 16% East Eurasian.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:33 PM
Bro, I can't find him saying that after the classification thread. His clearest statement of ancestry is:

"Background: 3/4 Afghan Pashtun and 1/4 Afghan Tajik."

About his mother:

"...my mother is Pashtun."

I'll find it bro but I promise I'm not lying

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:37 PM
I have his file (I'm actually the one who sent it). On other calculators, he is 16% East Eurasian.

It's on the classify these 3 Armenians thread. He says word for word..."I'm of a pashtun/Persian/Tajik descent with maybe Some North Indian ancestry as we'll".

His results do support that IMO.

Sein
05-17-2015, 09:44 PM
It's on the classify these 3 Armenians thread. He says word for word..."I'm of a pashtun/Persian/Tajik descent with maybe Some North Indian ancestry as we'll".

His results do support that IMO.

Here is what he also says in that same thread:

"That's correct. My father is Tajik (Persian)/Pashtun and my mom is Pashtun. Interesting, could you sent me a link to this study?"

"My family is from Laghman Province in Afghanistan. But some of my ancestors from my Dad side comes from northeastern Iran, I'm not sure where exactly."

Also, his results are basically identical to the Kunar and Nangarhar Pashtun files I have, and consistent with the 50% Safi and 50% Panjsheri individual.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:47 PM
Here is what he also says in that same thread:

"That's correct. My father is Tajik (Persian)/Pashtun and my mom is Pashtun. Interesting, could you sent me a link to this study?"

"My family is from Laghman Province in Afghanistan. But some of my ancestors from my Dad side comes from northeastern Iran, I'm not sure where exactly."

Lol the guy is confused. I think he said that because his mother is afghsn afterall. For instance of someone asked me where I'm from I'm going to say afghsnistsn etc but I won't mention my ancestry from the near East ( Qizilbash). His indian ancestry must be distant then but obviously it shows up on his results.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:48 PM
He says this too......" Not too suprised, since my mother has some Indian ancestry".

Sein
05-17-2015, 09:51 PM
Lol the guy is confused. I think he said that because his mother is afghsn afterall. For instance of someone asked me where I'm from I'm going to say afghsnistsn etc but I won't mention my ancestry from the near East ( Qizilbash). His indian ancestry must be distant then but obviously it shows up on his results.

Lol, when asked about his mother's ethnic background, he says quite clearly, "Pashtun".

Also, he apparently has some Iranian ancestry.

I don't think he has either Indian or Iranian ancestry, it must be family lore. His results are identical to other Afghan Pashtuns from his region.

Sein
05-17-2015, 09:51 PM
He says this too......" Not too suprised, since my mother has some Indian ancestry".

That's from the classification thread.

Coldmountains
05-17-2015, 09:51 PM
In a Pashtun-centric understanding of Afghanistan, Laghman, Kunar, Nangarhar, and Nuristan are basically northern Afghanistan, as these are the most northern areas traditionally inhabited by ethnic Afghans (ethnic Afghans being Pashtuns).

The Di Cristofaro samples do resemble the Durrani average for these components. But this is due to the fact that these samples come from Pashtuns of Durrani and southern Ghilji background. These Pashtun communities are recent transplants to the far north. Some of the Ghilji clans were banished by Amir Abdur Rahman to this region, far away from their kin, and some came later for economic reasons. Durrani Kochi groups were granted pasturage rights in these areas, by the Amir himself.

So these aren't really Northern Afghan Pashtuns, just southwestern Afghan Pashtuns living for a few generations in far northern Afghanistan.
What is about Pashtuns around Kabul (Paghman,...)? Are they also recent settlers? Farsiwan/Tajiks dominate and dominated the city in the past but some rural areas of the Kabul province have a Pashtun majority.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:53 PM
Lol, when asked about his mother's ethnic background, he says quite clearly, "Pashtun".

Also, he apparently has some Iranian ancestry.

I don't think he has either Indian or Iranian ancestry, it must be family lore. His results are identical to other Afghan Pashtuns from his region.

No I think I know why he says that. If someone asked me what's your dad im going to say pashtun. But in actual fact he's you Tajik and Quzilbash ancestry. I don't blame the guy for the confusion. Obviously he won't just make it up out of the Blue lol.

Sein
05-17-2015, 09:54 PM
What is about Pashtuns around Kabul (Paghman,...)? Are they also recent settlers? Farsiwan/Tajiks dominate and dominated the city in the past but some rural areas of the Kabul province have a Pashtun majority.

Interestingly, Babur mentions Pashtuns in the population of Kabul. The Pashtun settlement here is much older than in the far north. Here, we're talking more around the 16th century.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:54 PM
That's from the classification thread.

But that links in with the thread about the 3 Armenians. I don't think he would make it up to confuse people especially Indian out of everything.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 09:56 PM
What is about Pashtuns around Kabul (Paghman,...)? Are they also recent settlers? Farsiwan/Tajiks dominate and dominated the city in the past but some rural areas of the Kabul province have a Pashtun majority.

Yep, Kabul is actually a Tajik province but due to recent times it has been home to pretty much every ethnic group. My maternal grandmother is an actual Persian Tajik from Kabul.

Sein
05-17-2015, 09:58 PM
No I think I know why he says that. If someone asked me what's your dad im going to say pashtun. But in actual fact he's you Tajik and Quzilbash ancestry. I don't blame the guy for the confusion. Obviously he won't just make it up out of the Blue lol.

I think it's just family lore. He is Laghmani, not much space for Indian or Iranian ancestors in those parts. If he was from Kabul, that would have been a different story.

In my family, we supposedly have distant Arab and Uzbek ancestors, but it doesn't show in my parents DNA. After many generations, ambiguity comes into play when it comes to pinpointing ethnicity for one's ancestors.

Also, he could easily have said that his mother is Afghan, but he has mentioned in multiple threads that she is Pashtun.

I'll ask him about this, it's pointless to speculate.

jesus
05-17-2015, 10:05 PM
But that links in with the thread about the 3 Armenians. I don't think he would make it up to confuse people especially Indian out of everything.



I was born in North America. My ancestry is from the Iranian Plateau (Iran and Afghanistan). I'm of a Pashtun/Persian/Tajik descent with maybe some North Indian ancestry as well.

Here is the link:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=1504174&t=5779491

The best way to know if he has Indian ancestry or not is to check the ethnicities of his DNA relatives and matches.

About Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan, I found this from wiki:



However, the Kochis themselves see the northern minority groups as a non-Afghan race, and claims the Kochis were natives of northern Afghan region, and that during many years of invasion such as Genghis Khan and Timur, they escaped south.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kochi_people

Pashtuns have a long nomadic history, and there are some theories that they were originally from the Northern Afghanistan/Tajikistan/Uzbekistan region before migrating towards the south.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 10:12 PM
I think it's just family lore. He is Laghmani, not much space for Indian or Iranian ancestors in those parts. If he was from Kabul, that would have been a different story.

In my family, we supposedly have distant Arab and Uzbek ancestors, but it doesn't show in my parents DNA. After many generations, ambiguity comes into play when it comes to pinpointing ethnicity for one's ancestors.

Also, he could easily have said that his mother is Afghan, but he has mentioned in multiple threads that she is Pashtun.

I'll ask him about this, it's pointless to speculate.

Maybe you do have Arab ancestry? Maybe that's why you score southwest Asian or near eastern In some calculators. One Arab ancestor won't be enough to change your whole admixture but it would show. For instance , prince William of England is 1/16 Indian, yet he scored 0.3% South Asian on his results. It was published on the newspapers in England.

Sein
05-17-2015, 10:13 PM
Here is the link:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=1504174&t=5779491

The best way to know if he has Indian ancestry or not is to check the ethnicities of his DNA relatives and matches.

About Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan, I found this from wiki:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kochi_people

Pashtuns have a long nomadic history, and there are some theories that they were originally from the Northern Afghanistan/Tajikistan/Uzbekistan region before migrating towards the south.

The notion that Pashtuns once lived in northern Afghanistan is often stated by Pashtuns (my father is adamant that Northern Afghanistan is originally Pashtun territory), but it flies in the face of all historical evidence, and makes no sense. Whenever Pashtuns are mentioned in medieval accounts, they are described as living between the Kabul and Indus rivers, bordering greater India. The Pashtun is an exogenous presence north of the Hindu Kush.

If we go back far enough, even Haryani Jatts are predominantly Central Asian.

Pashtun ethnogenesis took place in the southern end of the contemporary Pashtun region. When that occurred, there were no Pashtuns in northern Afghanistan.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 10:13 PM
Here is the link:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=1504174&t=5779491

The best way to know if he has Indian ancestry or not is to check the ethnicities of his DNA relatives and matches.

About Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan, I found this from wiki:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kochi_people

Pashtuns have a long nomadic history, and there are some theories that they were originally from the Northern Afghanistan/Tajikistan/Uzbekistan region before migrating towards the south.

India showed up on his 23andme country list

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 10:16 PM
http://news.sky.com/story/1103678/prince-william-dna-test-proves-indian-heritage

It was 0.8% South Asian. Not even 1%!!!! And that's his great great great grandparent.

"Using other genetic tests to corroborate the findings, they also discovered that the two direct descendants were around 0.3% and 0.8% South Asian. The rest of their DNA was of European origin."

Sein
05-17-2015, 10:17 PM
India showed up on his 23andme country list

It's shows up on a bunch of Kandahari Durrani Pashtun lists I'm looking at as well. It isn't a good indicator. In fact, India is lower on his list than a few other Afghan Pashtuns.

But note his last name (he didn't strike it out). I think that settles it.

jesus
05-17-2015, 10:18 PM
India showed up on his 23andme country list

That doesn't mean that he has real Indian ancestry, the Indian relatives might have Afghan ancestry. But let's assume that he has Indian ancestry from a tiny village/town in Punjab,India and he has more than one DNA relative from that same village/town, that pretty much confirms the Indian ancestry.

jesus
05-17-2015, 10:23 PM
The notion that Pashtuns once lived in northern Afghanistan is often stated by Pashtuns (my father is adamant that Northern Afghanistan is originally Pashtun territory), but it flies in the face of all historical evidence, and makes no sense. Whenever Pashtuns are mentioned in medieval accounts, they are described as living between the Kabul and Indus rivers, bordering greater India. The Pashtun is an exogenous presence north of the Hindu Kush.

If we go back far enough, even Haryani Jatts are predominantly Central Asian.

Pashtun ethnogenesis took place in the southern end of the contemporary Pashtun region. When that occurred, there were no Pashtuns in northern Afghanistan.

I don't think it's far fetched, largely because 1- Pashtuns were largely nomadic 2- East Iranian languages were spoken in the Northern Parts of Afghanistan until the mongol/turkic expansions.

About Pashto:




(70) There appear to be no other special agreements between Paṧtō and any Pamir languages, whether in phonology, morphology, or vocabulary. It is, however, possible that the original home of Paṧtō may have been in Badaḵšān, somewhere between Munǰī and Sangl. and Shugh., with some contact with a Saka dialect akin to Khotanese. But it seems that the Old Iranic ancestor dialect of Paṧtō must have been close to that of the Gathas.
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/afghanistan-vi-pasto

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 10:29 PM
It's shows up on a bunch of Kandahari Durrani Pashtun lists I'm looking at as well. It isn't a good indicator. In fact, India is lower on his list than a few other Afghan Pashtuns.

But note his last name (he didn't strike it out). I think that settles it.

His last name? I'm confused bro

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 10:32 PM
That doesn't mean that he has real Indian ancestry, the Indian relatives might have Afghan ancestry. But let's assume that he has Indian ancestry from a tiny village/town in Punjab,India and he has more than one DNA relative from that same village/town, that pretty much confirms the Indian ancestry.

How would he check for that then? I'm considering to get myself tested. Which one would you prefer? GEdmatch?

Coldmountains
05-17-2015, 10:32 PM
The notion that Pashtuns once lived in northern Afghanistan is often stated by Pashtuns (my father is adamant that Northern Afghanistan is originally Pashtun territory), but it flies in the face of all historical evidence, and makes no sense. Whenever Pashtuns are mentioned in medieval accounts, they are described as living between the Kabul and Indus rivers, bordering greater India. The Pashtun is an exogenous presence north of the Hindu Kush.

If we go back far enough, even Haryani Jatts are predominantly Central Asian.

Pashtun ethnogenesis took place in the southern end of the contemporary Pashtun region. When that occurred, there were no Pashtuns in northern Afghanistan.

Northern Afghanistan was Bactrian speaking before the arrival of Persian language and Bactrian is close related to Pashto as eastern Iranian language but also in many ways quite different from modern Pashto. So Pashto is not a direct descendant of it like some claim and I agree with you that Pashtuns had a rather" southern" origin once. Pashto has a remarkable number of words which are special and not found in any other Iranian language what seems to prove that Proto-Pashtuns lived on the southeastern edge of the Iranian speaking zone where they also had linguistic contacts with nearby Indo-Aryans.

jesus
05-17-2015, 10:37 PM
How would he check for that then? I'm considering to get myself tested. Which one would you prefer? GEdmatch?

Gedmatch is a free tool that you use after uploading your raw data from companies like 23andme/FTDNA. If you are interested in knowing about your admixture results + health results + basic info about your Y-DNA and mtDNA pick 23andme. If you want to have more info about your mtDNA ( direct maternal line ) and y-DNA(Direct paternal line) choose FTDNA. But since you live in the UK, and have a low budget, 23andme is the best option.

Sein
05-17-2015, 10:38 PM
I don't think it's far fetched, largely because 1- Pashtuns were largely nomadic 2- East Iranian languages were spoken in the Northern Parts of Afghanistan until the mongol/turkic expansions.

About Pashto:


http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/afghanistan-vi-pasto

This is all theoretical though, we have to be empirical about this. The current Pashtun communities in northern Afghanistan have only been living there after the rule of Amir Abdur Rahman. Many came even later, during the first and second World Wars. And some came even later than that, in the seventies. No Pashtun in northern Afghanistan can claim to be rooted in that area for longer than a meager 130 years, and most less than 80 years.

And the Pashtun ethnic complex emerged somewhere in the neighborhood of modern Zhob, very far away from northern Afghanistan.

But like all ethnic groups in the region, most Pashtun genetic ancestry does come from Central Asia, in ancient Northern Afghanistan/Tajikistan/Uzbekistan. I'm sure the pre-proto-Pashtuns (:biggrin1:) lived in that area.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 10:41 PM
Gedmatch is a free tool that you use after uploading your raw data from companies like 23andme/FTDNA. If you are interested in knowing about your admixture results + health results + basic info about your Y-DNA and mtDNA pick 23andme. If you want to have more info about your mtDNA ( direct maternal line ) and y-DNA(Direct paternal line) choose FTDNA. But since you live in the UK, and have a low budget, 23andme is the best option.

So I obtain my raw data from 23andme and then insert it into thr calculators? How much is it? How long does it take for them to send back my raw data?

Sein
05-17-2015, 10:43 PM
His last name? I'm confused bro

It's Sapai, aka Safi, the largest tribe in Laghman. At the end of the day, our friend is probably just 75% Safi, and 25% Tajik.

Also, the UK, Ireland, and Poland beat India on his list. So it's more likely that he has recent British, Irish, and Polish ancestry, rather than recent Indian ancestry. :biggrin1:

As you know bro, Laghman is somewhat of an out-of-the way place, it isn't exactly known for being cosmopolitan.

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 10:45 PM
It's Sapai, aka Safi, the largest tribe in Laghman. At the end of the day, our friend is probably just 75% Safi, and 25% Tajik.

Also, the UK, Ireland, Poland beat India on his list. So it's more likely he has recent British, Irish, and Polish ancestry, rather than recent Indian ancestry. :biggrin1:

As you know bro, Laghman is an out of the way place, it isn't exactly cosmopolitan.

You've got a point. I'll ask him but the bloody forum won't let me post or pm anybody. I joined In the morning. It says your account doesn't need to be verified but it won't allow me to post.

Rukha
05-17-2015, 10:57 PM
Here is the link:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=1504174&t=5779491

The best way to know if he has Indian ancestry or not is to check the ethnicities of his DNA relatives and matches.

About Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan, I found this from wiki:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kochi_people

Pashtuns have a long nomadic history, and there are some theories that they were originally from the Northern Afghanistan/Tajikistan/Uzbekistan region before migrating towards the south.

That notion is propagated by Pashtun nationalists to justify the colonization policy that was implemented in the north. Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras were displaced and the most fertile lands were given to Pashtuns in provinces like Kunduz. It continued under Nadir Shah and his brothers as well. This man in particular spearheaded Pashtunization efforts-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Gul_Khan_Momand

Even if Pashtuns have origins in the north, a distinct Pashtun ethnicity hadn't emerged going that far back. Those kochis think all Tajiks hail from Tajikistan as well.

I have an Indian relative on 23andme...also have relatives from Iran, Turkey, Kazakhstan, etc.

jesus
05-17-2015, 10:58 PM
This is all theoretical though, we have to be empirical about this. The current Pashtun communities in northern Afghanistan have only been living there after the rule of Amir Abdur Rahman. Many came even later, during the first and second World Wars. And some came even later than that, in the seventies. No Pashtun in northern Afghanistan can claim to be rooted in that area for longer than a meager 130 years, and most less than 80 years.

And the Pashtun ethnic complex emerged somewhere in the neighborhood of modern Zhob, very far away from northern Afghanistan.

But like all ethnic groups in the region, most Pashtun genetic ancestry does come from Central Asia, in ancient Northern Afghanistan/Tajikistan/Uzbekistan. I'm sure the pre-proto-Pashtuns (:biggrin1:) lived in that area.


Of course, nobody denies that a big number of Pashtuns moved/were forced to move to the north. Some Suris were living in North Western or North central Afghanistan around 1000 years ago , which gives some credibility to the Kuchi argument(and your father's :P ).



Ghor - Also called Ghoristan. The mountainous country between Hirat and Ghazni. According to Istakhri and Ibn Haukal it was a rugged mountainous country , bounded by the districts of Hirat, Farrah, Dawar, Rabat, Kurwan, and Gharjistan back to Hirat, which were all Muhammadan countries. Ghor itself was a country of infidels, containing only a few Musulmans, and the inhabitants spoke a language different from that of Khurasan.[7]





It is said that Amir Suri was a great king and most of the territories of Ghor were in his possession. But as most of the inhabitants of Ghor of High and low degree had not yet embraced Islam, there was constant strife among them. The Saffarians came from Nimroz to Bust and Dawar, Yakub Lais overpowered Lak-Lak, who was the chief of Takinabad, in the country of Rukhaj. The Ghorians sought the safety in Sara-sang and dwelt there in security but even among them hostilities constantly prevailed between the Muslims and the infidels. One castle was at war with another castle, and their feuds were unceasing; but owing to the inaccessibility of the mountains of Rasiat, which are in Ghor no foreigner was able to overcome them, and Shansbani Amir Suri was the head of all the Mandeshis.[8]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghor_Province
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Suri

Dr_McNinja
05-17-2015, 11:12 PM
I think it's just family lore. He is Laghmani, not much space for Indian or Iranian ancestors in those parts. If he was from Kabul, that would have been a different story.

In my family, we supposedly have distant Arab and Uzbek ancestors, but it doesn't show in my parents DNA. After many generations, ambiguity comes into play when it comes to pinpointing ethnicity for one's ancestors.

Also, he could easily have said that his mother is Afghan, but he has mentioned in multiple threads that she is Pashtun.

I'll ask him about this, it's pointless to speculate.I think the best shot for finding distant ancestry like that, aside from Y-DNA or mtDNA is finding an IBD relative match of noticeable size. Arab matches (i.e, Saudi, Syrian, etc) will stand out as unusual for South Asians but I'm not sure whether that's the case for Afghans too. Uzbek will be difficult to distinguish, there's probably going to be some IBS/IBD overlap with that population anyway.

Coldmountains
05-17-2015, 11:17 PM
How would he check for that then? I'm considering to get myself tested. Which one would you prefer? GEdmatch?


Of course, nobody denies that a big number of Pashtuns moved/were forced to move to the north. Some Suris were living in North Western or North central Afghanistan around 1000 years ago , which gives some credibility to the Kuchi argument(and your father's :P ).
Pashto emerged in the most southeastern Iranian speaking Zone somewhere in southeastern Afghanistan or Western Pakistan. From here the Pashtun migration started and during this migrations Proto-Pashtuns absorbed other Eastern Iranians, who were genetically probably almost identical to this Proto-Pashtuns. So South Sakas, Kushan, Hepthalites and Bactrians contributed in some way to the genetic ancestry of modern Pashtuns even when they certainly not spoke Proto-Pashto



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghor_Province
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Suri

Pashto emerged in the most southeastern Iranian speaking Zone somewhere in southeastern Afghanistan or Western Pakistan. From here the Pashtun migration started and during this migrations Proto-Pashtuns absorbed other Eastern Iranians, who were genetically probably almost identical to this Proto-Pashtuns. So South Sakas, Kushan, Hepthalites and Bactrians contributed in some way to the genetic ancestry of modern Pashtuns even when they certainly not spoke Proto-Pashto

surbakhunWeesste
05-17-2015, 11:17 PM
It's Sapai, aka Safi, the largest tribe in Laghman. At the end of the day, our friend is probably just 75% Safi, and 25% Tajik.

Also, the UK, Ireland, and Poland beat India on his list. So it's more likely that he has recent British, Irish, and Polish ancestry, rather than recent Indian ancestry. :biggrin1:

As you know bro, Laghman is somewhat of an out-of-the way place, it isn't exactly known for being cosmopolitan.

No, Ghilzai are largest in Laghman <51% . Safi pashtuns are majority with Shinwari and Momand Pashtuns in Kunar Province. Both provinces have Pashais and Kates as well along with Tajiks.
Laghmani Pashtuns are Eastern Pashtuns as compared to Kunar Pashtuns who are North-Eastern Pashtuns.
Eastern Pashtuns and South eastern provinces have more Ghilzai as compared to North-Easterns who have more variety of tribes.


This one is for Barnacle: My ana told me Fermuluis are basically Tajiks who likely have Nishapur ancestry and some were Pashtunified.
Your another most closest Tajik cousins would be Khostanis, Larkhanis, Bazy.....These are 'now never spoken' of Tajik 'tribes'

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 11:27 PM
No, Ghilzai are largest in Laghman <51% . Safi pashtuns are majority with Shinwari and Momand Pashtuns in Kunar Province. Both provinces have Pashais and Kates as well along with Tajiks.
Laghmani Pashtuns are Eastern Pashtuns as compared to Kunar Pashtuns who are North-Eastern Pashtuns.
Eastern Pashtuns and South eastern provinces have more Ghilzai as compared to North-Easterns who have more variety of tribes.


This one is for Barnacle: My ana told me Fermuluis are basically Tajiks who likely have Nishapur ancestry and some were Pashtunified.
Your another most closest Tajik cousins would be Khostanis, Larkhanis, Bazy.....These are 'now never spoken' of Tajik 'tribes'

Okay that's interesting. Looks like you were right :) how certain was your grandmother? There's literally nothing about them, if they do have nishapur ancestry, does that mean they are linked with the nawabs? Anyways thanks for the input zahra .

Sein
05-17-2015, 11:32 PM
Of course, nobody denies that a big number of Pashtuns moved/were forced to move to the north. Some Suris were living in North Western or North central Afghanistan around 1000 years ago , which gives some credibility to the Kuchi argument(and your father's :P ).




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghor_Province
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Suri

I gotta be honest, no matter how much evidence I see, it's a matter of principle for me to take the exact polar opposite stance when it comes to my father's opinions.

:biggrin1:

jesus
05-17-2015, 11:37 PM
That notion is propagated by Pashtun nationalists to justify the colonization policy that was implemented in the north. Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras were displaced and the most fertile lands were given to Pashtuns in provinces like Kunduz. It continued under Nadir Shah and his brothers as well. This man in particular spearheaded Pashtunization efforts-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Gul_Khan_Momand

Even if Pashtuns have origins in the north, a distinct Pashtun ethnicity hadn't emerged going that far back. Those kochis think all Tajiks hail from Tajikistan as well.

I have an Indian relative on 23andme...also have relatives from Iran, Turkey, Kazakhstan, etc.

Nobody denied that, but those actions were practiced by the ancestors of those people few hundreds ago, before the rise of Pashtuns. It was(is?) a common practice in the history of the region, and this makes it very difficult for certain ethnic groups to claim historical ownership of certain lands.


Even if Pashtuns have origins in the north, a distinct Pashtun ethnicity hadn't emerged going that far back.

The same can be said about Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras.

surbakhunWeesste
05-17-2015, 11:40 PM
That notion is propagated by Pashtun nationalists to justify the colonization policy that was implemented in the north. Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras were displaced and the most fertile lands were given to Pashtuns in provinces like Kunduz. It continued under Nadir Shah and his brothers as well. This man in particular spearheaded Pashtunization efforts-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Gul_Khan_Momand

Even if Pashtuns have origins in the north, a distinct Pashtun ethnicity hadn't emerged going that far back. Those kochis think all Tajiks hail from Tajikistan as well.

I have an Indian relative on 23andme...also have relatives from Iran, Turkey, Kazakhstan, etc.

Kunduz was malaria infested, Pashtuns cultivated the fertile land :this was in the past two decades. There was a saying "if you wanna die, go to Kunduz". Not to say in the past 2 decades, all Pashtuns have been paying for the atrocities harnassed by Talibans as if all Pashtuns are Talibans. Now should all Pashtuns thank to Tajik and Hazara nationalists then eh!

Takling about antiquity during and after Ahmad Baba's regime. Most Pashtuns in Konduz lived in Ali Abad, now you will find Pashtuns esp in Chahar Darreh, Qal'eh-ye Zal along with Ali Abad. Btw Ali Abad has always affected by drought. Oh so much for Ahmad Shah Baba's Pashtun Nationalism :beerchug:

Sein
05-17-2015, 11:41 PM
No, Ghilzai are largest in Laghman <51% . Safi pashtuns are majority with Shinwari and Momand Pashtuns in Kunar Province. Both provinces have Pashais and Kates as well along with Tajiks.
Laghmani Pashtuns are Eastern Pashtuns as compared to Kunar Pashtuns who are North-Eastern Pashtuns.
Eastern Pashtuns and South eastern provinces have more Ghilzai as compared to North-Easterns who have more variety of tribes.


This one is for Barnacle: My ana told me Fermuluis are basically Tajiks who likely have Nishapur ancestry and some were Pashtunified.
Your another most closest Tajik cousins would be Khostanis, Larkhanis, Bazy.....These are 'now never spoken' of Tajik 'tribes'

For what it's worth, the Ghilzai presence here is quite young. These are traditionally Gharghakht lands.

Edit: Also, I'm quite certain that this estimate isn't correct. Laghman is unlikely to be 51% Ghilji. If you are going off that online document, do note that the western authors don't understand tribal affiliations very well.

surbakhunWeesste
05-17-2015, 11:42 PM
Okay that's interesting. Looks like you were right :) how certain was your grandmother? There's literally nothing about them, if they do have nishapur ancestry, does that mean they are linked with the nawabs? Anyways thanks for the input zahra .

She is very certain. She is obsessed with Afghan history for an old lady :P You and the Nawabs of Oudh most likely have a common ancestor. Conhratgs pseudo Nawab of "sOUTHhALL" :P

The Barnacle
05-17-2015, 11:46 PM
She is very certain. She is obsessed with Afghan history for an old lady :P You and the Nawabs of Oudh most likely have a common ancestor. Conhratgs pseudo Nawab of "sOUTHhALL" :P

SOUTHALL!???? Loooooooooooool pls zahra stop. That's little India, not a place for me lmfao. Every afghan that comes to "landan" has gone there haha. Tell her thank you :).

I'll give you a point on the pun though woh woh

Ejder
05-17-2015, 11:50 PM
Obviously I'm Turkish :)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.83
2 Baloch 17.12
3 Mediterranean 12.77
4 SW-Asian 10.82
5 NE-Euro 7.70
6 NE-Asian 4.63
7 Siberian 3.73
8 S-Indian 1.59
9 American 1.00


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 turkish @ 6.886119
2 turk-kayseri @ 7.546082
3 turk-istanbul @ 7.983696
4 turk @ 9.051309
5 turk-aydin @ 9.304012
6 azeri @ 10.535385
7 armenian @ 11.130578
8 kurd @ 12.639973
9 iranian @ 13.653419
10 uzbekistan-jew @ 13.956207
11 iraqi-arab @ 14.651834
12 kurd @ 14.743283
13 north-ossetian @ 15.123115
14 iranian @ 15.181506
15 kurd @ 15.962990
16 lebanese-muslim @ 16.122839
17 lebanese @ 16.465481
18 palestinian @ 16.926622
19 turkmen @ 17.038120
20 syrian @ 17.663160

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% cypriot +50% turkmen @ 2.468920


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% cypriot +25% turkmen +25% turkmen @ 2.468920


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 sephardic-jew + turk-kayseri + turkish + turkmen @ 2.349338
2 sephardic-jew + turk + turkish + turkmen @ 2.353868
3 sephardic-jew + turk-istanbul + turkish + turkmen @ 2.398651
4 cypriot + cypriot + turkmen + turkmen @ 2.468920
5 armenian + kurd + morocco-jew + uzbek @ 2.469175
6 morocco-jew + turk + turkish + turkmen @ 2.561781
7 armenian + kurd + sephardic-jew + uzbek @ 2.567379
8 armenian + kurd + morocco-jew + uzbek @ 2.631249
9 armenian + kurd + sephardic-jew + uzbek @ 2.632286
10 azeri + morocco-jew + turk-kayseri + turkmen @ 2.666478
11 sephardic-jew + turk-kayseri + turk-kayseri + turkmen @ 2.686599
12 morocco-jew + turk + turk + turkmen @ 2.688346
13 azeri + morocco-jew + turk + turkmen @ 2.706717
14 morocco-jew + turk-istanbul + turkish + turkmen @ 2.709162
15 azeri + sephardic-jew + turk-kayseri + turkmen @ 2.721948
16 armenian + kurd + morocco-jew + uzbek @ 2.723428
17 sephardic-jew + turk + turk-kayseri + turkmen @ 2.737063
18 armenian + kurd + sephardic-jew + uzbek @ 2.742975
19 sephardic-jew + turkish + turkish + turkmen @ 2.743481
20 morocco-jew + turk + turk-kayseri + turkmen @ 2.749563

Done.

surbakhunWeesste
05-17-2015, 11:55 PM
For what it's worth, the Ghilzai presence here is quite young. These are traditionally Gharghakht lands.

Edit: Also, I'm quite certain that this estimate isn't correct. Laghman is unlikely to be 51% Ghilji. If you are going off that online document, do note that the western authors don't understand tribal affiliations very well.

I am not going by online document. Unless, the Pashtuns there wanted to identify as Ghilzais when in reality their tribes are something else.
I barely follow any online documents unless its 'ancient'.

note:I will delete the aforementioned statement later because it has some personal info.

Sein
05-18-2015, 12:02 AM
^^^

I gotta be honest, Mehtar Lam and the surrounding area is surely not a Ghilji stronghold.

If we're talking about the southern portion neighboring northwestern Nangarhar, than yes, there are Ghilji transplants.

The Barnacle
05-18-2015, 12:08 AM
^^^

I gotta be honest, Mehtar Lam and the surrounding area is surely not a Ghilji stronghold.

If we're talking about the southern portion neighboring northwestern Nangarhar, than yes, there are Ghilji transplants.
I'll ask my old man for gods sake!!!! He should know :)

surbakhunWeesste
05-18-2015, 12:09 AM
I'll ask my old man for gods sake!!!! He should know :)

Are you from Laghman or Paktika?

Also ask him more about the mixing of Pashtuns with other ethnicities there, plz. I wanna know more.

The Barnacle
05-18-2015, 12:26 AM
Are you from Laghman or Paktika?

Also ask him more about the mixing of Pashtuns with other ethnicities there, plz. I wanna know more.

Dad is half Laghmani. I'm pretty sure there's intermarriages with Pashayis. I told sein why Velvet had a higher South indian score. There are pashayis in laghman and as far as I know a lot of laghmanis back in the old days used to know pashayi( it was spoken by some people in my fathers village).

Varun R
05-18-2015, 12:46 AM
Is anyone trying this?
http://genesforgood.sph.umich.edu/.

Results (~593,000 SNPs) to be given in VCF format if there is enough interest.

Humanist
05-18-2015, 12:53 AM
Is anyone trying this?
http://genesforgood.sph.umich.edu/.

Results (~593,000 SNPs) to be given in VCF format if there is enough interest.

A few are. Please see here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4251-*New*-UMich%92s-Facebook-based-genetic-test-emulates-23andMe-%96-except-it%92s-free).

jesus
05-18-2015, 12:55 AM
I was searching about the history of Ghor(North Central/Western Afghanistan) and I found some interesting things. Ghor seemed like a Pashtun dominated area historically and I'm guessing that a lot of Pashtuns were driven to the south by the Hazaras and maybe the ancestors of Tajiks(Saffarids?), since the majority of Ghor now is mostly Hazara and Tajiks.


History. The origin of the Dorrānī confederation has not clearly been determined. A proposed connection between the name Abdālī and the ancient Hephthalite dynasty seems extremely tenuous (Masson, I, p. xiii). According to some traditions, the Abdālī tribes entered southern Afghanistan (from Ḡōr?) in the early 15th century (Taḏkerāt al-molūk, tr., p. 13).
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/dorrani-1



The Afghan traditions place their original settlements in the Kohi Kais or Koh Kasi, but there seems to be some doubt as to the whereabouts of this locality, some considering it to be on the Suleman range, and others on the Siyah-band range of the Ghor mountains. The latter, it would seem, is the more probable, as it was the scene of the romantic episode by which the Afghan genealogists account for the name.

The story runs to the effect that the second son of Kais (the great ancestral progenitor of the Afghan nationality), who was named Batan, was settled with his people on the Siyahband range of the Ghor mountains - the Paropamisus of the ancients, the Hazarah of the moderns. It appears that they occupied the western hills of the range, and led a migratory life between the highlands in summer and lowlands in winter. Batan, the patriarch of the tribe, was noted for his piety and devotion, and for his earnest attachment to the new faith established in those parts. In consequence of his leading position and religious reputation, he was reverenced as a saint and honored with the title of Shekh.


https://books.google.com/books?id=kQpOAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=dorrani+origin+ghor+afghanistan&source=bl&ots=y02CXpmwp0&sig=leOejKxT4Q2p4XFJHTdpnVGR5H4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8TBZVf7LHJSjoQT6jYH4CQ&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=ghor%20&f=false



Durrani: The Durrani constitute the dominant Pashtun tribe, and the one from which leaders of Afghanistan are traditionally drawn. Their origin is uncertain, but their likely foundation occurred in the mountains of Ghor.


http://www.nps.edu/programs/ccs/Herat/Herat.html




Qais, the presumed ancestor of the Pashtuns, is said to have led a delegation of Afghans from Ghor to mecca (Or to Kufa in the presence of Caliph Ali-histroy of Ghor) in response to a summons from Khalid bin Walid, convereted to Islam, and distinguished himself in the service of the prophet.

https://books.google.com/books?id=AAHna6aqtX4C&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=dorrani+origin+ghor+afghanistan&source=bl&ots=q_oaGI3HkW&sig=jKNLyc_0w30LveTYkWIgdmnukA8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8TBZVf7LHJSjoQT6jYH4CQ&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=dorrani%20origin%20ghor%20afghanistan&f=false




The origins of these people(Abdalis) Are unkown, but it is thoguth that they may have come from the mountains of either Toba or, more probably, Ghor.

https://books.google.com/books?id=bv4hzxpo424C&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=dorrani+origin+ghor+afghanistan&source=bl&ots=bEZTAxpw8E&sig=CppbJqbkgIbL6mHG-yVEhq1oY7U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8TBZVf7LHJSjoQT6jYH4CQ&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=dorrani%20origin%20ghor%20afghanistan&f=false

Location of Ghor



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Afghanistan_Ghor_Province_location.PNG

surbakhunWeesste
05-18-2015, 01:11 AM
I was searching about the history of Ghor(North Central/Western Afghanistan) and I found some interesting things. Ghor seemed like a Pashtun dominated area historically and I'm guessing that a lot of Pashtuns were driven to the south by the Hazaras and maybe the ancestors of Tajiks(Saffarids?), since the majority of Ghor now is mostly Hazara and Tajiks.


http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/dorrani-1


https://books.google.com/books?id=kQpOAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=dorrani+origin+ghor+afghanistan&source=bl&ots=y02CXpmwp0&sig=leOejKxT4Q2p4XFJHTdpnVGR5H4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8TBZVf7LHJSjoQT6jYH4CQ&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=ghor%20&f=false



http://www.nps.edu/programs/ccs/Herat/Herat.html



https://books.google.com/books?id=AAHna6aqtX4C&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=dorrani+origin+ghor+afghanistan&source=bl&ots=q_oaGI3HkW&sig=jKNLyc_0w30LveTYkWIgdmnukA8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8TBZVf7LHJSjoQT6jYH4CQ&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=dorrani%20origin%20ghor%20afghanistan&f=false



https://books.google.com/books?id=bv4hzxpo424C&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=dorrani+origin+ghor+afghanistan&source=bl&ots=bEZTAxpw8E&sig=CppbJqbkgIbL6mHG-yVEhq1oY7U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8TBZVf7LHJSjoQT6jYH4CQ&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=dorrani%20origin%20ghor%20afghanistan&f=false

Location of Ghor



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Afghanistan_Ghor_Province_location.PNG


Similar to one of the many stories my grandmother told us. There is another one involving Herat as well and many many others. So much for ancestral origin crisis :biggrin1:

This can be controversial but there has been a distinction between Afghan, Pashtun and Pathan. Many elders in Afghanistan don't regard many Pakistani Pashtuns/Pakhtuns tribes as a "decent" Afghan(as in Pashtun). The Afghan elders claim to be of "Jewish" origin as well :P

rockman
05-18-2015, 03:13 AM
This one is for Barnacle: My ana told me Fermuluis are basically Tajiks who likely have Nishapur ancestry and some were Pashtunified.
Your another most closest Tajik cousins would be Khostanis, Larkhanis, Bazy.....These are 'now never spoken' of Tajik 'tribes'

Are you saying the Nawabs of Oudh were Fermulis and were originally from Nishapur but later came to be regarded as Tajiks? I thought Saadat Ali Khan came straight from Nishapur to India.

surbakhunWeesste
05-18-2015, 04:09 AM
Are you saying the Nawabs of Oudh were Fermulis and were originally from Nishapur but later came to be regarded as Tajiks? I thought Saadat Ali Khan came straight from Nishapur to India.

No. They probably have a common ancestor since there is a Fermuli claim,there could be marriage and all sort of connection. Fermuli are Tajiks(Persians from Nishapur) and there are Pashtunfied Fermuli such like Barnacle's family members. There could be a link between Saddat Ali Khan's family and those who settled in Afghanistan later known as Tajiks and Pashtuns in that area.

surbakhunWeesste
05-18-2015, 07:35 AM
Pashto emerged in the most southeastern Iranian speaking Zone somewhere in southeastern Afghanistan or Western Pakistan. From here the Pashtun migration started and during this migrations Proto-Pashtuns absorbed other Eastern Iranians, who were genetically probably almost identical to this Proto-Pashtuns. So South Sakas, Kushan, Hepthalites and Bactrians contributed in some way to the genetic ancestry of modern Pashtuns even when they certainly not spoke Proto-Pashto

Pamiri is classified as South-East Iranic just like Pashto, doesn't mean that it originated in the same area you have mentioned(Southeastern Afghanistan or Western Pakistan).

Balochi is classified as North-West Iranic, despite being spoken in Southern Afghanistan and South Western Pakistan.

Parthian is classified as North-West Iranic as well and it was spoken east of Caspian where eastern Iranic languages were most common, so is Kurdish which actually is spoken in the other end of the Iranic-language speaking world.

Coldmountains
05-18-2015, 08:17 AM
Pamiri is classified as South-East Iranic just like Pashto, doesn't mean that it originated in the same area you have mentioned(Southeastern Afghanistan or Western Pakistan).

Balochi is classified as North-West Iranic, despite being spoken in Southern Afghanistan and South Western Pakistan.

Parthian is classified as North-West Iranic as well and it was spoken east of Caspian where eastern Iranic languages were most common, so is Kurdish which actually is spoken in the other end of the Iranic-language speaking world.
I think that Pashto emerged in this area because Pashto has a rich Indo-Aryan adstrate/substrate and to a lesser extent also a dardic. Also Pashto seems to have a great number of words which are only found in Pashto and neither found in any other Iranian/Pamiri language nor look like loanwoards from neighboring Indo-Aryan languages. So Proto-Pashto developed relatively isolated from other today existing Iranian languages. Bactrian was spoken in North Afghanistan and does not look like a direct ancestor of Pashto even when it is closely related so I personally dont think that Proto-Pashto emerged in the north. We don't know which non-Persian languages were once spoken in West and Central Afghanistan but this places are too much in the west to be associated with Proto-Pashto but East-Central Afghanistan is possible for me.

I tend to agree with Sein about this and would place Proto-Pashto in the most southeastern Iranian speaking Zone but maybe I and Sein are totally wrong. But certainly south of Bactrian and east of late Avestan. Pre-Proto-Pashto is another topic and probably emerged much more in the North close to the region where Pre-Proto-Wakhi, Proto-Saka and Proto-"Pamiri" languages emerged. We still don't know which languages were spoken by Kushan and "White Huns" before they adopted Bactrian but their intrusions look to late for me to be associated with the arrival of Proto-Pashto in Afghanistan but they certainly had an impact on Pashtun ethnogenesis and left probably also linguistic traces in modern Pashto.

The Barnacle
05-18-2015, 10:25 AM
It's official: he just stated he is probably 1/8 indian.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/5810847/2/#new

Also why can't I comment on the forum? I joined as a member yesterday.

Sein
05-18-2015, 05:28 PM
It's official: he just stated he is probably 1/8 indian.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/5810847/2/#new

Also why can't I comment on the forum? I joined as a member yesterday.

Actually:

"All I know about him is that he was born in Eastern Afghanistan, he was born a Muslim (but not religious at all in later life), and that he considered himself to be Pashtun (which I doubted in the past)."

He only thinks Indian ancestry is a possibility, because his maternal grandfather looks South Asian!

Also, our friend doesn't understand Pashto, and doesn't seem to know much about the region from which his family hails.

The fact that his maternal grandfather was born in Laghman, and the fact that his maternal grandfather considers himself a Pashtun, is probably a good indicator that his maternal grandfather is just an Afghan Pashtun! How would an Indian end up being born in Laghman, and why would they lose their Indian identity? Tribal Pashtuns just don't integrate male foreigners as honorary Pashtuns.

Anyway, both India and Pakistan are far too low on his list for actual Indian ancestry. I'm thinking of joining that forum, just to discuss this with him.

The Barnacle
05-18-2015, 05:39 PM
Actually:

"All I know about him is that he was born in Eastern Afghanistan, he was born a Muslim (but not religious at all in later life), and that he considered himself to be Pashtun (which I doubted in the past)."

He only thinks Indian ancestry is a possibility, because his maternal grandfather looks South Asian!

Also, our friend doesn't understand Pashto, and doesn't seem to know much about the region from which his family hails.

The fact that his maternal grandfather was born in Laghman, and the fact that his maternal grandfather considers himself a Pashtun, is probably a good indicator that his maternal grandfather is just an Afghan Pashtun! How would an Indian end up being born in Laghman, and why would they lose their Indian identity? Tribal Pashtuns just don't integrate male foreigners as honorary Pashtuns.

Anyway, both India and Pakistan are far too low on his list for actual Indian ancestry. I'm thinking of joining that forum, just to discuss this with him.

I spoke to him, his grandad doesn't look South asian lol . But no, he's not basing it off his grandad, he says he's got Indian andrstry and that his results made him think that as well. I dunno he's not even South asian shifted to be considering South asian anxestry but who knows.

surbakhunWeesste
05-18-2015, 08:42 PM
I think that Pashto emerged in this area because Pashto has a rich Indo-Aryan adstrate/substrate and to a lesser extent also a dardic.


We can't restrict Indo-Aryan influence to South East Afghanistan/Western Pakistan region. There are resources stating its influence till Aral sea.
Also,just because it has some Indo-Aryan influence doesn't mean that it originated in the area mentioned earlier. Indo-Aryan was much spread out.


Also Pashto seems to have a great number of words which are only found in Pashto and neither found in any other Iranian/Pamiri language nor look like loanwoards from neighboring Indo-Aryan languages. So Proto-Pashto developed relatively isolated from other today existing Iranian languages. Bactrian was spoken in North Afghanistan and does not look like a direct ancestor of Pashto even when it is closely related so I personally dont think that Proto-Pashto emerged in the north. We don't know which non-Persian languages were once spoken in West and Central Afghanistan but this places are too much in the west to be associated with Proto-Pashto but East-Central Afghanistan is possible for me.

I tend to agree with Sein about this and would place Proto-Pashto in the most southeastern Iranian speaking Zone but maybe I and Sein are totally wrong. But certainly south of Bactrian and east of Avestan. Pre-Proto-Pashto is another topic and probably emerged much more in the North close to the region where Proto-Wakhi, Proto-Saka and Proto-"Pamiri" languages emerged. We still don't know which languages were spoken by Kushan and "White Huns" before they adopted Bactrian but their intrusions look to late for me to be associated with the arrival of Proto-Pashto in Afghanistan but they certainly had an impact on Pashtun ethnogenesis and left probably also linguistic traces in modern Pashto.

There is a reason why Pashto is classified as an east-iranic language. It’s very similar to Pamiri languages (East-Iranian), Balochi, Persian, Kurdish (West-Iranian). It’s less close to Nuristani or other Indo-Aryan languages.

Pashto has influence from the Zoroastrian Gathas, which is written in Avestan. Avestan and Vedic Sanskrit were most likely sister languages.
From what I have understood from my research Pashto seems to have preserved Avestan reflexes. Pashto is likely the closest descendant of Avestan.

These are few similarities between Avestan and Pashto that comes to my mind instantly.


http://i.imgur.com/9vXsNA8.png


I can understand Afghan Wakhi from Badakshan pretty much since I find it much similar in many ways to the Pashto I speak (Gilgit-Baltistan Wakhi has dardic and Urdu influence). Pashto has dialects and based on that it can have foreign loan words sparsely or majorly also who is speaking it and where is it being spoken. I can't say all Pashto speakers can and will understand Wakhi or Shugni(which is similar to Wakhi). Skkara Pashto/Pakhto (Clear Pashto) speakers will most likely understand some Pamiri languages like Wakhi and Shugni. I am able to understand Balochi as well, the reason behind it is Pashto.




A major Kushan dynastic shrine complex on top of a hill overlooking the Baghlan plain. It is approached by a monumental brick and masonry staircase, flanked by four massive erraces, cut out of the hillside. The temple itself - possibly a fire temple - is in the centre of a paved courtyard, and consists of a masonry altar with four Hellenistic column bases at each corner, in a sanctuary with massive mud walls. The most important finds have been inscriptions. The most noteable one is the foundation inscription, a monumental inscription in the Bactrian language, made up of a series of stone blocks that originally lined the front of the third terrace. The other main inscription is the Nokonzoko inscription, an elaborate, very controversial inscription in three versions, that describes the construction and restoration of the complex, also in the Bactnan language. Other finds include a life-size headless statue of Kanishka, several more inscriptions, many coins and various sculptural fragments in stone and stucco.

Kushan & Kushano-Sassanian, 2nd-4th century AD;
(ceramic, numismatic, stylistic evidence)
Source: Warwick Ball, Archaeological Gazetteer of Afghanistan, 1982, n. 1123

Gandhara Prakrit was one of the languages spoken by Kushans. This could have influenced the early Pashto as well.

https://en.unesco.org/silkroad/sites/silkroad/files/knowledge-bank-article/vol_II%20silk%20road_languages%20and%20literature% 20in%20the%20kushan%20empire.pdf

parasar
05-18-2015, 09:39 PM
We can't restrict Indo-Aryan influence to South East Afghanistan/Western Pakistan region. There are resources stating its influence till Aral sea.
Also,just because it has some Indo-Aryan influence doesn't mean that it originated in the area mentioned earlier. Indo-Aryan was much spread out.
...

Not to forget the Mitanni of Syria and Iraq.

pegasus
05-19-2015, 08:19 AM
It's official: he just stated he is probably 1/8 indian.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/5810847/2/#new

Also why can't I comment on the forum? I joined as a member yesterday.


His results are quite similar to the HGDP Pashtuns, I didn't see anything exotic about them.

surbakhunWeesste
05-19-2015, 08:40 AM
His Pashtun side could to be Khalil/Safi/Ghilzai given his ancestral land of Laghman.
Many Kabuli Pashtuns don't speak Pashto, they speak dari.

Coldmountains
05-19-2015, 09:21 AM
We can't restrict Indo-Aryan influence to South East Afghanistan/Western Pakistan region. There are resources stating its influence till Aral sea.
Also,just because it has some Indo-Aryan influence doesn't mean that it originated in the area mentioned earlier. Indo-Aryan was much spread out.


There is a reason why Pashto is classified as an east-iranic language. It’s very similar to Pamiri languages (East-Iranian), Balochi, Persian, Kurdish (West-Iranian). It’s less close to Nuristani or other Indo-Aryan languages.

Pashto has influence from the Zoroastrian Gathas, which is written in Avestan. Avestan and Vedic Sanskrit were most likely sister languages.
From what I have understood from my research Pashto seems to have preserved Avestan reflexes. Pashto is likely the closest descendant of Avestan.

These are few similarities between Avestan and Pashto that comes to my mind instantly.


http://i.imgur.com/9vXsNA8.png


I can understand Afghan Wakhi from Badakshan pretty much since I find it much similar in many ways to the Pashto I speak (Gilgit-Baltistan Wakhi has dardic and Urdu influence). Pashto has dialects and based on that it can have foreign loan words sparsely or majorly also who is speaking it and where is it being spoken. I can't say all Pashto speakers can and will understand Wakhi or Shugni(which is similar to Wakhi). Skkara Pashto/Pakhto (Clear Pashto) speakers will most likely understand some Pamiri languages like Wakhi and Shugni. I am able to understand Balochi as well, the reason behind it is Pashto.



Kushan & Kushano-Sassanian, 2nd-4th century AD;
(ceramic, numismatic, stylistic evidence)
Source: Warwick Ball, Archaeological Gazetteer of Afghanistan, 1982, n. 1123

Gandhara Prakrit was one of the languages spoken by Kushans. This could have influenced the early Pashto as well.

https://en.unesco.org/silkroad/sites/silkroad/files/knowledge-bank-article/vol_II%20silk%20road_languages%20and%20literature% 20in%20the%20kushan%20empire.pdf


Thanks for this great post. Indo-Aryan languages were certainly much more westwards spread than today and Indo-Aryans had a earlier presence in South Central Asia and even in the Near East than Iranians but Iranians entered this places shortly after their Indo-Aryan "brothers". Iranization in Afghanistan was probably almost complete during the achaeminid period if not much earlier and just in Gandhara and in the eastern mountains regions Dardics and Indo-Aryans still represented the majority. Later Indo-Aryan culture and languages revived in Afghanistan thanks to the spread of Buddhism/Hinduism and urban lifestyle from India. This golden age of Indian Civilization in Afghanistan had a huge impact on urban Central Asian Iranians and during this period many Indo-Aryan terms entered Bactrian, Sogdian and Khotanese Saka.

Proto-Pashto was spoken by some nomadic/semi-nomadic tribes during this period who lived certainly outside of the urban centres of Gandhara and Bactria, so loanwords from Gandhari Indo-Aryan entered Proto-Pashto rather via trade, interraction with rural Indo-Aryans and occasional marriages with Gandhari women. Most loanwords from Indo-Aryan languages indeed seem to be terms related to daily, domestic affairs or items that can be bought from peddlars or (rural) markets but rarely terms related to high culture, religion and elites. I would associate Proto-Pashtuns with folks identical or related to historical Asvaka and Kamboja, who also populated the Indo-Iranian frontier and were quite early populating this regions. Asvaka and Kamboja have an unclear ethnic origin and some propose a Nuristani, Indo-Aryan or Eastern Iranian origin for this people but i tend to believe that they were Eastern Iranians, who were superficially Indo-Aryanized, and most scholars today seem to agree with this because both were equestrian tribes and considered as mleccha by Brahmins. Kamboja practised also zoroastrian-like rituals and in Regions associated with Kamboja aramaic inscriptions were rich in avestan-like words (Proto-Pashto?).


"The Kambojas ... were known in Indian traditions as a foreign people, with peculiar customs, ... raised celebrated horses, spoke - as the Nirukata (II,2.8) tells us - a language with Iranian words in it ... and had, according to Buddhist Jataka (VI.206, 27-30), a certain religious practice - the killing of insects, moths, snakes and worms - which we may recognize as Mazdean from the passages in Mazdean books like the Videvati (XIV.5-6) as well as from the remark of Herodotus (I.140) about the Persian religion " (Journal Asiatique, CCXLVI 1958, I, pp 47-48, E. Benveniste).


"The name Kamboja was commonly applied in Indian sources to the Iranian population of the borderlands i.e Afghanistan." (The Afghans (Peoples of Asia), 2001, p 127


Interestingly the word Afghan seems to be derived from Asvaka.

"Even the name Afghan is Aryan being derived from Asvakayana, an important clan of the Asvakas or horsemen who must have derived this title from their handling of celebrated breeds of horses" (See: Imprints of Indian Thought and Culture abroad, p 124, Vivekananda Kendra Prakashan)

"The name Afghan has evidently been derived from Asvakan, the Assakenoi of Arrian... " (Megasthenes and Arrian, p 180. See also: Alexander's Invasion of India, p 38; J. W. McCrindle)

Pamiri languages and Pashto are indeed very close related and share much of their vocabulary but i got the impression that there are many special words in Pashto, which have no cognates in any other today existing Iranian language and not seem to be loanwords. I think that there were in the past many other Eastern Iranian languages spoken between the Pamir and Hindukush and this languages would maybe represent some kind of "missing link" between Pashto and Pamiri languages.

Although to a large extent the native elements of the Paṧtō vocabulary are related to the vocabularies of other Iranic languages, a remarkably large number of words is special to Paṧtō. To take a few examples from the names of parts of the body: st’ərga “eye,” xwlə “mouth,” yāҳ “tooth,” ’oğa “shoulder,” pҳa “foot,” p’ūnda “heel” (cf. Morg.1, passim).

I agree with you about the close relationship between Pashto and Avetan, there are quite many cognates and Pashto as one of the most conservative and archaic Iranian languages probably best preserved avestan-like features. Pre-Proto Pashto emerged probably somewhere between Avestan and Old Saka but close to the distant ancestors of modern Pamiri languages IMHO.

surbakhunWeesste
05-19-2015, 09:50 AM
Thanks for this great post.
I agree with you about the close relationship between Pashto and Avetan, there are quite many cognates and Pashto as one of the most conservative and archaic Iranian languages probably best preserved avestan-like features. Pre-Proto Pashto emerged probably somewhere between Avestan and Old Saka but close to the distant ancestors of modern Pamiri languages IMHO.

No problem. I am trying to learn avesta. Have been listening to the Gathas. I heard many Pashto like words when they recite the "Ahunavaiti Gatha" Yasna 28 to 34. I need a clearer understanding for that. Also, Pashto has major retroflex specially the Kandahari dialect. Many cerebral sound in Pashto comes from Sanskrit and early perhaps "proto-Hindi"! I am still researching.

I am not sure about the Asvakayana and Afghan, not because it doesn't suit my perception but never have heard much from other source.

I am a fan of Zoroaster. He perhaps was the father of all monotheistic religion. There was a reason how empires flourished when Zoroastrianism was at its peak. Manichaeism is another stuff I want to look into as well.

The Barnacle
05-19-2015, 09:51 AM
His results are quite similar to the HGDP Pashtuns, I didn't see anything exotic about them.

His South Indian seemed abit too high but his baloch and Caucasian scores were normal. I talked up him and he said he has Indian ancestry through his mother although looking at his phenotype it's not obvious at all. He's a safi pashtun ( present mainly in northwest Pakistan)

pegasus
05-19-2015, 10:03 AM
His South Indian seemed abit too high but his baloch and Caucasian scores were normal. I talked up him and he said he has Indian ancestry through his mother although looking at his phenotype it's not obvious at all. He's a safi pashtun ( present mainly in northwest Pakistan)

Too high? Elevated yes, if it was 30% + I would say that would be too high. Well genotype does not equal phenotype many times.
I concur with what Sein said.

The Barnacle
05-19-2015, 10:22 AM
Too high? Elevated yes, if it was 30% + I would say that would be too high. Well genotype does not equal phenotype many times.
I concur with what Sein said.

We'll if we look at most afghan Pashtuns ( plus half Tajiks half Pashtuns) within In Afghsnistsn, the average seems to lie between 14-15%. Now I know he's an eastern pashtun etc but we don't have sufficient data to make that conclusion based on 3 results from eastern provinces. Their tribe also plays a part. He's s Safi pashtun which is mainly found in Pakistan.

The Barnacle
05-19-2015, 10:25 AM
Too high? Elevated yes, if it was 30% + I would say that would be too high. Well genotype does not equal phenotype many times.
I concur with what Sein said.

And 30%? Not even jatts are that high. Anything above 17% IMO so far looking at afghan Pashtuns is high. The metspalu Pashtuns who were ghilzais were 15%.

Coldmountains
05-19-2015, 10:26 AM
No problem. I am trying to learn avesta. Have been listening to the Gathas. I heard many Pashto like words when they recite the "Ahunavaiti Gatha" Yasna 28 to 34. I need a clearer understanding for that. Also, Pashto has major retroflex specially the Kandahari dialect. Many cerebral sound in Pashto comes from Sanskrit and early perhaps "proto-Hindi"! I am still researching.

I am not sure about the Asvakayana and Afghan, not because it doesn't suit my perception but never have heard much from other source.

I am a fan of Zoroaster. He perhaps was the father of all monotheistic religion. There was a reason how empires flourished when Zoroastrianism was at its peak. Manichaeism is another stuff I want to look into as well.

I really admire your talent for learning new languages and hope you have sucess. Avestan is a very fascinating language also for me because it is the oldest Iranian language and it is almost like an audio time machine . Zoroastranism is quite interesting but i seem to be more interested in Buddhism, Vedism/Shaivism and other Iranian religions beside of Zoroastranism. It is probably just too similar to what i already know at home and i somehow like to read something about all kind of "exotic" Indo-Iranian religions. If i would not be so bad in learning new languages, had enough time and would already master Pashto i would probably try to learn Bactrian, Avestan, Khotanese Saka or Sanskrit/Pali just for fun :)

MonkeyDLuffy
05-19-2015, 10:28 AM
And 30%? Not even jatts are that high. Anything above 18% IMO so far looking at afghan Pashtuns is high. The metspalu Pashtuns who were ghilzais were 15%.

Who said that? Kashmiris scored 32-33%. Few jatt samples had near about 37%. Even I score more than samples of my tribe. The mixture is not even exactly same in Siblings, numbers do go up and down :)

surbakhunWeesste
05-19-2015, 10:36 AM
We'll if we look at most afghan Pashtuns ( plus half Tajiks half Pashtuns) within In Afghsnistsn, the average seems to lie between 14-15%. Now I know he's an eastern pashtun etc but we don't have sufficient data to make that conclusion based on 3 results from eastern provinces. Their tribe also plays a part. He's s Safi pashtun which is mainly found in Pakistan.

Barnaclezon, it will differ based on the mixing of population. Not all Afghan Pashtuns and Tajiks will have 14-15% of South Asian in Afghanistan. Have you heard a saying amongst Pashtuns that the Durrand line is invisible. Its true for Pashtuns and even some Tajiks who have families in present day Pakistan. Like you said the tribal make-up plays a very important role. Eastern/Central Afghanistan is very diverse as compared to Southern/Western, that should effect genetics of people living there for sure.

surbakhunWeesste
05-19-2015, 10:54 AM
I really admire your talent for learning new languages and hope you have sucess. Avestan is a very fascinating language also for me because it is the oldest Iranian language and it is almost like an audio time machine . Zoroastranism is quite interesting but i seem to be more interested in Buddhism, Vedism/Shaivism and other Iranian religions beside of Zoroastranism. It is probably just too similar to what i already know at home and i somehow like to read something about all kind of "exotic" Indo-Iranian religions. If i would not be so bad in learning new languages, had enough time and would already master Pashto i would probably try to learn Bactrian, Avestan, Khotanese Saka or Sanskrit/Pali just for fun :)

Manana. I am very greedy when it comes to learning new stuff and especially languages have always fascinated me. I am grateful that I can speak and understand quite some languages. Ancient languages are even more fascinating.
Buddhism is much influenced by Zoroastrianism as well, if you follow Buddha's original teaching but now they have created "sects"!!! or whatever they wanna call it. I was fortunate enough to travel and learn a lot and I wouldn't trade it for anything else.
Visit Kathmandu and Lumbini, Nepal when the earthquakes are over SMH for Shaivism and Buddhism(Also Afghanistan-Kabul University,Bamyan...) and Vanaras, India for Vedic learning. If it wasn't for lame paper writing and biased professors, I would have taken a lot more History classes in University.

speedyran
05-19-2015, 10:56 AM
His South Indian seemed abit too high but his baloch and Caucasian scores were normal. I talked up him and he said he has Indian ancestry through his mother although looking at his phenotype it's not obvious at all. He's a safi pashtun ( present mainly in northwest Pakistan)

Its suggested that safi pashtuns are Pashtunized Pashai people. If that does not apply to all, then to at least some sections of safi. Is it likely?

The Barnacle
05-19-2015, 11:37 AM
Its suggested that safi pashtuns are Pashtunized Pashai people. If that does not apply to all, then to at least some sections of safi. Is it likely?

Well there is a pashayi community in Laghman. Pashtunization defintley has occurred but to what extent? Not sure.

Btw where did you hear that from? Are you afghan?

The Barnacle
05-19-2015, 11:39 AM
Barnaclezon, it will differ based on the mixing of population. Not all Afghan Pashtuns and Tajiks will have 14-15% of South Asian in Afghanistan. Have you heard a saying amongst Pashtuns that the Durrand line is invisible. Its true for Pashtuns and even some Tajiks who have families in present day Pakistan. Like you said the tribal make-up plays a very important role. Eastern/Central Afghanistan is very diverse as compared to Southern/Western, that should effect genetics of people living there for sure.

Yeah I guess it's Moreso to do with tribes. Would be interesting to see a ghilzai or durrani from esstern Afghanistan.

John Doe
05-19-2015, 03:09 PM
23andme:

Admixture:



Population
S-Indian -
Baloch 7.28%
Caucasian 34.78%
NE-Euro 16.96%
SE-Asian 0.88%
Siberian 0.12%
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.22%
American -
Beringian -
Mediterranean 25.50%
SW-Asian 12.98%
San 0.08%
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African 1.17%

Oracle:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 34.78
2 Mediterranean 25.5
3 NE-Euro 16.96
4 SW-Asian 12.98
5 Baloch 7.28
6 W-African 1.17
7 SE-Asian 0.88
8 Papuan 0.22
9 Siberian 0.12
10 San 0.08
11 NE-Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 3.14
2 ashkenazi (harappa) 3.67
3 sephardic-jew (behar) 8.93
4 morocco-jew (behar) 10.77
5 tuscan (1000genomes) 11.45
6 tuscan (hgdp) 12.1
7 tuscan (hapmap) 12.77
8 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 14.8
9 cypriot (behar) 17.84
10 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 19.5
11 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 20.03
12 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 20.23
13 italian (hgdp) 20.51
14 romanian-a (behar) 20.73
15 lebanese (behar) 21.21
16 turk (behar) 21.67
17 turkish (harappa) 22.62
18 lebanese-muslim (haber) 23.54
19 syrian (behar) 23.72
20 armenian (harappa) 23.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.5% tuscan (1000genomes) + 30.5% lebanese-christian (haber) @ 1.84
2 55.7% italian (hgdp) + 44.3% lebanese-christian (haber) @ 1.95
3 65.2% tuscan (1000genomes) + 34.8% lebanese (behar) @ 1.96
4 55.9% italian (hgdp) + 44.1% lebanese-druze (haber) @ 2.04
5 67.6% tuscan (1000genomes) + 32.4% lebanese-muslim (haber) @ 2.06
6 66.5% cypriot (behar) + 33.5% french (hgdp) @ 2.07
7 69.7% tuscan (1000genomes) + 30.3% lebanese-druze (haber) @ 2.11
8 71.7% tuscan (1000genomes) + 28.3% iraq-jew (behar) @ 2.17
9 83.5% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 16.5% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 2.23
10 67.8% tuscan (1000genomes) + 32.2% syrian (behar) @ 2.27
11 50.9% druze (hgdp) + 49.1% spaniard (behar) @ 2.3
12 91.3% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 8.7% italian (hgdp) @ 2.48
13 69.3% sephardic-jew (behar) + 30.7% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 2.51
14 72.8% tuscan (1000genomes) + 27.2% iranian-jew (behar) @ 2.62
15 95.5% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 4.5% french (hgdp) @ 2.67
16 92.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 7.8% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 2.68
17 51.3% druze (hgdp) + 48.7% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 2.69
18 95.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 4.9% spaniard (behar) @ 2.69
19 70.7% sephardic-jew (behar) + 29.3% romanian-a (behar) @ 2.7
20 92.8% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 7.2% romanian-a (behar) @ 2.71


Oracle 4:

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 ashkenazy-jew @ 3.332968
2 ashkenazi @ 3.958418
3 sephardic-jew @ 9.763868
4 morocco-jew @ 11.748118
5 tuscan @ 12.479546
6 tuscan @ 13.181496
7 tuscan @ 13.919968
8 turk-aydin @ 15.817846
9 cypriot @ 19.759701
10 bulgarian @ 21.458883
11 turk-istanbul @ 21.762899
12 turk-kayseri @ 22.020863
13 italian @ 22.483015
14 romanian-a @ 22.849985
15 lebanese @ 23.049488
16 turk @ 23.586201
17 turkish @ 24.571808
18 lebanese-muslim @ 25.639650
19 syrian @ 25.718126
20 armenian @ 26.156137

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% druze +50% spaniard @ 2.479670


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% ashkenazy-jew +25% cypriot +25% italian @ 1.899286


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 armenian + samaritian + sardinian + slovenian @ 1.639643
2 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.658196
3 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.704695
4 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.728350
5 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.762291
6 ashkenazy-jew + cypriot + cypriot + french @ 1.776641
7 armenian + samaritian + sardinian + slovenian @ 1.812007
8 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.826024
9 ashkenazy-jew + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.831486
10 armenian + hungarian + samaritian + sardinian @ 1.845550
11 ashkenazi + lebanese-druze + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.851972
12 georgia-jew + italian + sephardic-jew + tuscan @ 1.861832
13 ashkenazy-jew + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.888775
14 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.889641
15 ashkenazy-jew + ashkenazy-jew + cypriot + italian @ 1.899286
16 armenian + italian + samaritian + spaniard @ 1.901770
17 ashkenazi + lebanese-druze + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.913471
18 georgia-jew + italian + sephardic-jew + tuscan @ 1.916843
19 ashkenazi + lebanese-druze + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.918492
20 cypriot + italian + italian + lebanese-muslim @ 1.944595


FTDNA:

Admixture:


Population
S-Indian -
Baloch 7.42%
Caucasian 34.94%
NE-Euro 16.95%
SE-Asian 0.82%
Siberian 0.16%
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.21%
American -
Beringian -
Mediterranean 25.27%
SW-Asian 13.35%
San 0.24%
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African 0.64%


Oracle:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 2.75
2 ashkenazi (harappa) 3.53
3 sephardic-jew (behar) 8.7
4 morocco-jew (behar) 10.65
5 tuscan (1000genomes) 11.75
6 tuscan (hgdp) 12.41
7 tuscan (hapmap) 13.09
8 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 14.65
9 cypriot (behar) 17.56
10 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 19.64
11 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 19.81
12 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 19.98
13 italian (hgdp) 20.82
14 romanian-a (behar) 20.88
15 lebanese (behar) 20.88
16 turk (behar) 21.43
17 turkish (harappa) 22.36
18 lebanese-muslim (haber) 23.22
19 syrian (behar) 23.38
20 armenian (harappa) 23.65

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.6% tuscan (1000genomes) + 31.4% lebanese-christian (haber) @ 1.68
2 55% italian (hgdp) + 45% lebanese-christian (haber) @ 1.72
3 67% cypriot (behar) + 33% french (hgdp) @ 1.83
4 64.2% tuscan (1000genomes) + 35.8% lebanese (behar) @ 1.9
5 55.2% italian (hgdp) + 44.8% lebanese-druze (haber) @ 1.93
6 70.8% tuscan (1000genomes) + 29.2% iraq-jew (behar) @ 1.97
7 66.6% tuscan (1000genomes) + 33.4% lebanese-muslim (haber) @ 2
8 86.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 13.8% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 2.03
9 68.8% tuscan (1000genomes) + 31.2% lebanese-druze (haber) @ 2.05
10 66.8% tuscan (1000genomes) + 33.2% syrian (behar) @ 2.16
11 92.8% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 7.2% italian (hgdp) @ 2.24
12 69.9% sephardic-jew (behar) + 30.1% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 2.25
13 51.3% druze (hgdp) + 48.7% spaniard (behar) @ 2.29
14 93.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 6.9% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 2.34
15 93.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 6.3% romanian-a (behar) @ 2.37
16 96.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 3.8% french (hgdp) @ 2.37
17 97% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 3% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 2.42
18 97.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.9% british (1000genomes) @ 2.42
19 96.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 3.9% spaniard (behar) @ 2.43
20 97.3% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.7% orcadian (hgdp) @ 2.44


Oracle 4:

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 ashkenazy-jew @ 2.939356
2 ashkenazi @ 3.833311
3 sephardic-jew @ 9.512065
4 morocco-jew @ 11.616816
5 tuscan @ 12.816353
6 tuscan @ 13.526737
7 tuscan @ 14.267873
8 turk-aydin @ 15.655640
9 cypriot @ 19.454634
10 turk-istanbul @ 21.525175
11 bulgarian @ 21.617735
12 turk-kayseri @ 21.756889
13 lebanese @ 22.695969
14 italian @ 22.817204
15 romanian-a @ 23.020748
16 turk @ 23.328472
17 turkish @ 24.295977
18 lebanese-muslim @ 25.291798
19 syrian @ 25.347099
20 palestinian @ 25.809290

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% druze +50% spaniard @ 2.587356


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% italian +25% samaritian +25% turk-kayseri @ 1.666182


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 ashkenazy-jew + cypriot + cypriot + french @ 1.363450
2 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.525792
3 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.536481
4 druze + iraq-jew + sardinian + slovenian @ 1.542323
5 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.547166
6 armenian + samaritian + sardinian + slovenian @ 1.551745
7 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.554577
8 armenian + samaritian + sardinian + slovenian @ 1.560982
9 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.564286
10 ashkenazy-jew + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.585572
11 ashkenazi + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.588709
12 ashkenazy-jew + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.630467
13 ashkenazy-jew + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.649947
14 ashkenazi + iraq-jew + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.651257
15 ashkenazy-jew + lebanese-christian + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.660560
16 druze + iranian-jew + sardinian + slovenian @ 1.663666
17 armenian + italian + samaritian + spaniard @ 1.664818
18 italian + italian + samaritian + turk-kayseri @ 1.666182
19 georgia-jew + italian + sephardic-jew + tuscan @ 1.668712
20 ashkenazi + iraq-jew + tuscan + tuscan @ 1.683121

Sapporo
05-19-2015, 08:32 PM
We'll if we look at most afghan Pashtuns ( plus half Tajiks half Pashtuns) within In Afghsnistsn, the average seems to lie between 14-15%. Now I know he's an eastern pashtun etc but we don't have sufficient data to make that conclusion based on 3 results from eastern provinces. Their tribe also plays a part. He's s Safi pashtun which is mainly found in Pakistan.

I believe it's closer to 15-16% but that is insignificant. HRP0370 gets about 16%. HRP0286 is the lowest at 14%. HRP0281 gets 20%. The former are Durrani and HRP0281 is of unknown origins but "may be" of Eastern Afghan Pashtun origins.

HRP0410 who is 50% Ghilzai Nasari Pashtun/50% Panjsheri Tajik gets 16% while getting 12% East Eurasian on Zack's official run. Don't know their DIYHarappaWorld but my guess is they would get around 8% East Eurasian and 17% South Indian. I'm not sure which side is responsible for the elevated East Eurasian but my bet would be if he was fully Ghilzai Nasari, the South Indian could reach the 18-20% range and it is the Tajik side lowering it while elevating the East Eurasian.

Also, HRP0409 is 50% Safi Pashtun and 50% Kabuli Tajik and gets 18% South Indian on Zack's official run with around 10% East Eurasian. DIY HarappaWorld South Asian might be even higher per the general trend for most individuals. This puts the individual 75% Safi Pashtun and 25% Laghmani Tajik into perspective. They don't seem particuarly elevated whatsoever. Especially, since the individual seems to be predominately of Eastern Afghan Pashtun ancestry.

In addition, HRP0326 who is 7/8 Afghan Ghilzai Pashtun + 1/8 Hazara scores about 15% South Asian on Zack's official run while getting 14% East Eurasian. Either his Ghilzai side is very "Turkic" admixed or he inherited quite a chunk of his autosomal genome from his 1/8 Hazara ancestry. If he didn't have the Hazara ancestry, I'd say his South Indian score wouldn't surprise be if it was a little higher and closer to 17-18%.

HRP0408 is a Kandahari Pashtun and gets 15% South Indian with 8% East Eurasian and fits the general trend of Kandahari Pashtuns (South/Southwestern Pashtuns) scoring lower South Asian and higher East Eurasian scores that Sein has pointed out before in comparison to the Eastern Afghan Pashtun and HGDP FATA Pashtuns. The trend seems to be North/East versus South/West. I also believe Sein has another friend who is Kandahari Pashtun and scored 17% South Indian on DIYHarappaWorld so likely around 16% on Zack's official run if he ever decides to do it.

Interestingly, HRP0406 is half Chitrali and half European (presumably British like based on their admixture scores) and gets 11% South Indian. So, his Chitrali side (which is presumably Kalash like) is around 22%. Also, results vary between individuals. Some of the HGDP FATA Pashtuns score between 18-22% South Indian. 10 to be exact with 3 scoring under 20%. There is also one individual HGDP Pashtun who scores 12% South Indian and 8% East Eurasian but it's important to note they were part of Zack's original run (HRP0240) when he was building the calculator so you can't compare him and the other HGDP samples directly to those who are HRP0240 and newer. However, these individual scores much higher East Eurasian than any of the other HGDP Pashtuns who score primarily in the 1-3% range.

http://www.harappadna.org/2013/07/pathan-pashtun-admixture-results/

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW3R0Ys-P4HdDhib1M5OE1wWENNb2haUFFWZzNBMEE#gid=1

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW3R0Ys-P4HdGE4eDh6emt1dUs2U2pXTkVjS0lsV1E&hl=en#gid=0

If I recall correctly, I remember someone posting an Iranian Khorasani result who scored 9% South Indian, which fits the whole Eastern geographical trend that Eastern Afghan Pashtuns may show versus their South/Southwestern counterparts.

As for the Metspalu Afghan Pashtuns, they score around 15-16% South Indian. 1 scores 14% and the other three 16% on Zack's official run. However, they also all score around 9-11% East Eurasian, which is substantially higher than the HGDP FATA Pashtuns.

http://www.harappadna.org/2014/01/afghan-dataset/

The Barnacle
05-19-2015, 08:42 PM
I believe it's closer to 15-16% but that is insignificant. HRP0370 gets about 16%. HRP0286 is the lowest at 14%. HRP0281 gets 20%. The former are Durrani and HRP0281 is of unknown origins but "may be" of Eastern Pashtun origins.

HRP0410 who is 50% Ghilzai Nasari Pashtun/50% Panjsheri Tajik gets 16% while getting 12% East Eurasian on Zack's official run. Don't know their DIYHarappaWorld but my guess is they would get around 8% East Eurasian and 17% South Indian. I'm not sure which side is responsible for the elevated East Eurasian but my bet would be if he was fully Ghilzai Nasari, the South Indian could reach the 18-20% range and it is the Tajik side lowering it while elevating the East Eurasian.

Also, HRP0409 is 50% Safi Pashtun and 50% Kabuli Tajik and gets 18% South Indian on Zack's official run with around 10% East Eurasian. DIY HarappaWorld South Asian might be even higher per the general trend for most individuals. This puts the individual 75% Safi Pashtun and 25% Laghmani Tajik into perspective. They don't seem particuarly elevated whatsoever. Especially, since the individual seems to be predominately of Eastern Afghan Pashtun ancestry.

In addition, HRP0326 who is 7/8 Afghan Ghilzai Pashtun + 1/8 Hazara scores about 15% South Asian on Zack's official run while getting 14% East Eurasian. Either his Ghilzai side is very "Turkic" admixed or he inherited quite a chunk of his autosomal genome from his 1/8 Hazara ancestry. If he didn't have the Hazara ancestry, I'd say his South Indian score wouldn't surprise be if it was a little higher and closer to 17-18%.

HRP0408 is a Kandahari Pashtun and gets 15% South Indian with 8% East Eurasian and fits the general trend of Kandahari Pashtuns (South/Southwestern Pashtuns) scoring lower South Asian and higher East Eurasian scores that Sein has pointed out before in comparison to the Eastern Afghan Pashtun and HGDP FATA Pashtuns. The trend seems to be North/East versus South/West. I also believe Sein has another friend who is Kandahari Pashtun and scored 17% South Indian on DIYHarappaWorld so likely around 16% on Zack's official run if he ever decides to do it.

Interestingly, HRP0406 is half Chitrali and half European (presumably British like based on their admixture scores) and gets 11% South Indian. So, his Chitrali side (which is presumably Kalash like) is around 22%. Also, results vary between individuals. Some of the HGDP FATA Pashtuns score between 18-22% South Indian. 10 to be exact with 3 scoring under 20%. There is also one individual HGDP Pashtun who scores 12% South Indian and 8% East Eurasian but it's important to note they were part of Zack's original run (HRP0240) when he was building the calculator so you can't compare him and the other HGDP samples directly to those who are HRP0240 and newer. However, these individual scores much higher East Eurasian than any of the other HGDP Pashtuns who score primarily in the 1-3% range.

http://www.harappadna.org/2013/07/pathan-pashtun-admixture-results/

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW3R0Ys-P4HdDhib1M5OE1wWENNb2haUFFWZzNBMEE#gid=1

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW3R0Ys-P4HdGE4eDh6emt1dUs2U2pXTkVjS0lsV1E&hl=en#gid=0

If I recall correctly, I remember someone posting an Iranian Khorasani result who scored 9% South Indian, which fits the whole Eastern geographical trend that Eastern Afghan Pashtuns may show versus their Southwestern counterparts.

HRP0370 is just about 15% btw https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuXBmvmgdkfVdFMtRHVlZDBuQ3lMcjhxMDE4V3JoYl E&type=view&gid=6&f=true&colid0=1&filterstr0=Afghan%20Pashtun%20Popalzai%2FDurrani%2 0(Kandahar)&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250
I think we can probably conclude that it depends on the tribe. For instance Safi pashtund are widespread in mainly Pakistan not Afghanistan. Elevated was an exaggeration yes. But higher than what we are used to per se. Also your forgetting the metpalu ghilzai pashtuns from the North. They scored the same as HRP0370 somewhat higher by 0.3 etc. afghan Tajiks usually score around 10-12%. Now we obviously don't have data from western Afghanistan which isn't fair,because the gap between afghans and near easterners will be a lot closer.

Sapporo
05-19-2015, 09:11 PM
HRP0370 is just about 15% btw https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuXBmvmgdkfVdFMtRHVlZDBuQ3lMcjhxMDE4V3JoYl E&type=view&gid=6&f=true&colid0=1&filterstr0=Afghan%20Pashtun%20Popalzai%2FDurrani%2 0(Kandahar)&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250
I think we can probably conclude that it depends on the tribe. For instance Safi pashtund are widespread in mainly Pakistan not Afghanistan. Elevated was an exaggeration yes. But higher than what we are used to per se. Also your forgetting the metpalu ghilzai pashtuns from the North. They scored the same as HRP0370 somewhat higher by 0.3 etc. afghan Tajiks usually score around 10-12%. Now we obviously don't have data from western Afghanistan which isn't fair,because the gap between afghans and near easterners will be a lot closer.

HRP0370 gets 15.65% per Zack's official run which his spreadsheet rounds up to 16%. Insignificant difference. The spreadsheet you are quoting is Dr_McNinja's DIY HarappaWorld score for her.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW3R0Ys-P4HdDhib1M5OE1wWENNb2haUFFWZzNBMEE#gid=1

I edited my post to include the Metspalu Pashtuns from the North. My impression is they have origins further South as Sein has mentioned previously since Baghlan and Kunduz provinces aren't predominately Pashtun. Perhaps, Ghilzai but I honestly don't know. Regardless, they score much higher East Eurasian (9-11%) scores on average than the HGDP Pashtuns (1-3%) even taking into consideration the calculator Zack ran them against had a different group (being they are post HRP0240).

I wasn't aware that the Safi are predominant in Pakistan? I thought their stronghold was the Kunar and Laghman provinces with others found in parts of Parwan, Kapisa, Nuristan and then parts of Pakistan's FATA/Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. But then again, I'm not that familiar with Pashtun tribal/provincial affiliation.

Afghan Tajiks do tend to score around 8-12% South Indian but they compensate that by scoring 16-27% East Eurasian per Metspalu's samples (excluding the more Pashtun like outlier). Then again, Tajiks are likely much more heterogenous. I imagine Panjshiri Tajiks would score Pashtun like results versus far Northern Tajiks. Kabuli Tajiks are likely the most diverse do to the city's cosmopolitan nature. Finally, the isolated Pamiri Tajiks seem to score more Pashtun like results but with a Uralic/NE Euro shift.

http://www.harappadna.org/2014/01/afghan-dataset/

As for Western Afghanistan, you have a fair point but not sure what you mean by "fair." I would definitely like to see Western Pashtun and Tajik results but isn't the region sparsely populated other than Herat, which is nearly 85-90% Tajik? Are there any Pashtun tribes "native" to Western Afghanistan or the area surrounding Herat? If not, I imagine their results would mirror whatever tribal/provincial origins they have.

http://www.jmu.edu/cisr/journal/15.2/specialrpt/lacroix/Lacroix_FIG_3_web_large.jpg

Sapporo
05-19-2015, 09:11 PM
Edited: Double post due to internet malfunction. :(

Sapporo
05-19-2015, 09:23 PM
Who said that? Kashmiris scored 32-33%. Few jatt samples had near about 37%. Even I score more than samples of my tribe. The mixture is not even exactly same in Siblings, numbers do go up and down :)

Per the presumably (only 1 is confirmed) 2 Muslim Kashmiris and 1 Kashmiri Pandit on HAP, they scored 30%. I have seen 3 other Muslim Kashmiri results and they were all 30-33% as well. The Punjabi Sikh Jatts score around 28-30% on average per Zack's official run. Usually,within the 27-31% range. Muslim Pakistani Punjabi Jatts are in a similar 28-32% range as well. The only Jatts scoring in the 34-37% range are Dr_McNinja's family so far but not sure if that is a combination of the South Indian component just being volatile or some other historical reasons. Punjabi Khatris also are scoring around 28-31% based on the limited samples we have.

Among siblings, numbers shouldn't fluctuate more than 1-2%. Also, the South Indian/South Asian component is very volatile. In general, it is good for comparison purposes but certain calculators throw it off.

The Barnacle
05-19-2015, 09:25 PM
Edited: Double post due to internet malfunction. :(

Pashtuns make up more than 80% of Farah province (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farah_Province) which is near to a million people. Thats around 800,000 Pashtuns in farah province alone( that's about the population of laghman and kunar combined . Pashtuns make up 10% of Herat population , 28% of badghis population and give or take 30% of nimruz province. And Yep my bad safi Pashtuns are present In Afghanistan but also Pakistan, got confused. Well I'm kind of confused at Dr.Mcninjas harappa calculator and Zacks run. Didn't Zacks run double East Eurasian components ? Anyways I'm mainly comparing Dr.Mcninjas calculator and not Zacks to avoid confusion .

Sapporo
05-19-2015, 09:46 PM
Pashtuns make up more than 80% of Farah province (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farah_Province) which is near to a million people. Thats around 800,000 Pashtuns in farah province alone( that's about the population of laghman and kunar combined . Pashtuns make up 10% of Herat population , 28% of badghis population and give or take 30% of nimruz province. And Yep my bad safi Pashtuns are present In Afghanistan but also Pakistan, got confused. Well I'm kind of confused at Dr.Mcninjas harappa calculator and Zacks run. Didn't Zacks run double East Eurasian components ? Anyways I'm mainly comparing Dr.Mcninjas calculator and not Zacks to avoid confusion .

Thanks. I wasn't aware of that. That is approximately 750-800K Pashtuns per your point. I would definitely like to see some samples from there or neighboring Southwestern provinces. However, are those Pashtun tribes native to the region or did they migrate there from elsewhere? What tribes predominate those provinces?

It is not Dr_McNinja's calculator per say but the DIY HarappaWorld calculator available on Gedmatch and created by Zack in conjunction with Dienekes from Dodecad I believe. It's slightly different than Zack's official results, which does tend to elevate East Eurasian scores but not necessarily double them for everyone. For me, mines was tripled from 2 to 6% but others doubled. For some, it may only go up a few %. It's just noisy in general because our results are not part of the calculator running them itself so the calculator effect is at play.

The Barnacle
05-19-2015, 09:48 PM
Thanks. I wasn't aware of that. That is approximately 750-800K Pashtuns per your point. I would definitely like to see some samples from there or neighboring Southwestern provinces. However, are those Pashtun tribes native to the region or did they migrate there for elsewhere? What tribes predominate that provinces?

It is not Dr_McNinja's calculator per say but the DIY HarappaWorld calculator available on Gedmatch and created by Zack. It's slightly different than Zack's official results, which does tend to elevate East Eurasian scores but not necessarily double them. For me, mines was tripled from 2 to 6% but others doubled. For some, it may only go up a few %. It's just noisy in general.

Well tbh no one is native to anywhere. But yeah generally speaking theyvd been there for a long time. I'm so curious to see their results .

The Barnacle
05-19-2015, 09:53 PM
As for the two harapa calculators , it seems other south Asians South indian score seem to be elevated on Zacks official run and lower on the DIY.

Sapporo
05-19-2015, 10:01 PM
As for the two harapa calculators , it seems other south Asians South indian score seem to be elevated on Zacks official run and lower on the DIY.

From my observations, the general trend is most people score around 0.5-1.5% more on DIY HarappaWorld than Zack's official run. At least for those who are HRP0240 and newer. My score went down from essentially 30% flat on DIY HarappaWorld to 29.23% on Zack's official run. However, you should note how volatile the component is. There are some individuals from my ethnic group who score 28-29% South Indian on DIY HarappaWorld and 27.5-28% South Indian on Zack's official run yet I score less ASE (which acts like a poor proxy for ASI) than them on West Eurasia K8 and ANE K7. Similarly, some of the HGDP Pashtuns score higher South Indian than one another on Zack's official run yet score less Onge than the individuals who score less South Indian than them. If you look at some of Zack's old Onge runs, you'll notice this.

One of the few exceptions is HRP0370 who's South Indian/South Asian score went up about 0.6% from DIY HarappaWorld to Zack's official run. There is a general trend but it may not apply to everyone.

Dr_McNinja
05-19-2015, 10:03 PM
Per the presumably (only 1 is confirmed) 2 Muslim Kashmiris and 1 Kashmiri Pandit on HAP, they scored 30%. I have seen 3 other Muslim Kashmiri results and they were all 30-33% as well. The Punjabi Sikh Jatts score around 28-30% on average per Zack's official run. Usually,within the 27-31% range. Muslim Pakistani Punjabi Jatts are in a similar 28-32% range as well. The only Jatts scoring in the 34-37% range are Dr_McNinja's family so far but not sure if that is a combination of the South Indian component just being volatile or some other historical reasons. Punjabi Khatris also are scoring around 28-31% based on the limited samples we have.

Among siblings, numbers shouldn't fluctuate more than 1-2%. Also, the South Indian/South Asian component is very volatile. In general, it is good for comparison purposes but certain calculators throw it off.

Our ASE in various calculators (when removing South Asian components or using Eurogenes K7/K8) is on average 1-2% higher than Jatt Sikhs and in line with other Punjabis. It's the Oceanian admixture which inflates the South Asian component, combined with marginally lower ANE (particular to my family) for unknown reasons. A similar effect is boosting most of the Pahari people's South Asian scores a little too. Also in some Pashtun like Sein.

I think Oceanian in India is like South Asian ANE. I don't know. When you add up ANE + Oceanian in Eurogenes West Eurasia K8, it has two peaks at around 35%, in Baloch and in Gujarat, just like ANI does in the other calculators we've seen recently. The spread between us in ANE is 1% or less.

It would also explain why the South Asian component is coming out low in ANE (like 23%) and with a bunch of Oceanian. There's no reason a modern South Indian component should be below 30% ANE. But that's besides the point because the South Indian also has 10% NE-Asian so I'm guessing it's a mix of actual South Indian (ENF/ASE) and East Eurasian Indians who have NE-Asian/Oceanian from the Himalayas. The latter must have been appearing low in ANE and high in Oceanian. The latter is probably also where the rest of North India got it from, since Parasar (Bihar Brahmin) has some of the highest Oceanian I've seen so far. But in the northwest the NE-Asian is only marginally higher while Oceanian continues to remain high among Pahari populations (I think ashwinb, the Gujarati/Maharashtra Brahmin, has Himalayan or Northeast Indian ancestry since they have high NE-Asian in some calculators and their high Oceanian presumably came with it).

Whatever it is, it correlates to geography so now that we know where it is, I guess it's a moot point for figuring out recent ancestry, but I'm still curious to what it represents ancestrally.

ashwinb
05-20-2015, 02:23 AM
(I think ashwinb, the Gujarati/Maharashtra Brahmin, has Himalayan or Northeast Indian ancestry since they have high NE-Asian in some calculators and their high Oceanian presumably came with it).


I have wondered why I get a slightly higher East Eurasian than even the nepali brahmin sample on this calculator. And a lower southeast eurasian.

surbakhunWeesste
05-20-2015, 03:00 AM
Pashtuns make up more than 80% of Farah province (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farah_Province) which is near to a million people. Thats around 800,000 Pashtuns in farah province alone( that's about the population of laghman and kunar combined . Pashtuns make up 10% of Herat population , 28% of badghis population and give or take 30% of nimruz province. And Yep my bad safi Pashtuns are present In Afghanistan but also Pakistan, got confused. Well I'm kind of confused at Dr.Mcninjas harappa calculator and Zacks run. Didn't Zacks run double East Eurasian components ? Anyways I'm mainly comparing Dr.Mcninjas calculator and not Zacks to avoid confusion .

These numbers will fluctuate. Pashtuns in Herat are Durranis mostly Achakzai, Nurzai,Alikozai...... Herat was a Pashtunland . The Pashtun presence in Herat predates Ahmad Shah Baba. Over the years Pashtuns have exiled from Herat ...because of ethnic tensions. In recent years many have started to move back. There was a point when Pashtuns there stopped speaking Pashto because of ethnic war and they were heavily persecuted by Tajiks. Herat has districts where you will only find Pashtuns only Populations. There are places in Herat where you will find no sign of war. There are Pashtuns who live in the Iran-Afghanistan border as well.
Historically speaking about Western and South-Western Afghanistan Ghor, Herat, Bagdish till all the way to Kandahar was and is Pashtun land. Well things have changed.
Check this post it has a lot of information and sources which Afghan Pashtun elders/Historians agree with
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1229-Harappa-Ancestry-Project&p=84917&viewfull=1#post84917

The Barnacle
05-20-2015, 11:14 AM
My mistake, Herat province is a pashtun majority. It's the city which is Tajik dominated.

Ejder
05-20-2015, 05:21 PM
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.83
2 Baloch 17.12
3 Mediterranean 12.77
4 SW-Asian 10.82
5 NE-Euro 7.70
6 NE-Asian 4.63
7 Siberian 3.73
8 S-Indian 1.59
9 American 1.00


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 turkish @ 6.886119
2 turk-kayseri @ 7.546082
3 turk-istanbul @ 7.983696
4 turk @ 9.051309
5 turk-aydin @ 9.304012
6 azeri @ 10.535385
7 armenian @ 11.130578
8 kurd @ 12.639973
9 iranian @ 13.653419
10 uzbekistan-jew @ 13.956207
11 iraqi-arab @ 14.651834
12 kurd @ 14.743283
13 north-ossetian @ 15.123115
14 iranian @ 15.181506
15 kurd @ 15.962990
16 lebanese-muslim @ 16.122839
17 lebanese @ 16.465481
18 palestinian @ 16.926622
19 turkmen @ 17.038120
20 syrian @ 17.663160

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% cypriot +50% turkmen @ 2.468920


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% cypriot +25% turkmen +25% turkmen @ 2.468920


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 sephardic-jew + turk-kayseri + turkish + turkmen @ 2.349338
2 sephardic-jew + turk + turkish + turkmen @ 2.353868
3 sephardic-jew + turk-istanbul + turkish + turkmen @ 2.398651
4 cypriot + cypriot + turkmen + turkmen @ 2.468920
5 armenian + kurd + morocco-jew + uzbek @ 2.469175
6 morocco-jew + turk + turkish + turkmen @ 2.561781
7 armenian + kurd + sephardic-jew + uzbek @ 2.567379
8 armenian + kurd + morocco-jew + uzbek @ 2.631249
9 armenian + kurd + sephardic-jew + uzbek @ 2.632286
10 azeri + morocco-jew + turk-kayseri + turkmen @ 2.666478
11 sephardic-jew + turk-kayseri + turk-kayseri + turkmen @ 2.686599
12 morocco-jew + turk + turk + turkmen @ 2.688346
13 azeri + morocco-jew + turk + turkmen @ 2.706717
14 morocco-jew + turk-istanbul + turkish + turkmen @ 2.709162
15 azeri + sephardic-jew + turk-kayseri + turkmen @ 2.721948
16 armenian + kurd + morocco-jew + uzbek @ 2.723428
17 sephardic-jew + turk + turk-kayseri + turkmen @ 2.737063
18 armenian + kurd + sephardic-jew + uzbek @ 2.742975
19 sephardic-jew + turkish + turkish + turkmen @ 2.743481
20 morocco-jew + turk + turk-kayseri + turkmen @ 2.749563

Guess where I am from? :D

The Barnacle
05-21-2015, 12:23 AM
These numbers will fluctuate. Pashtuns in Herat are Durranis mostly Achakzai, Nurzai,Alikozai...... Herat was a Pashtunland . The Pashtun presence in Herat predates Ahmad Shah Baba. Over the years Pashtuns have exiled from Herat ...because of ethnic tensions. In recent years many have started to move back. There was a point when Pashtuns there stopped speaking Pashto because of ethnic war and they were heavily persecuted by Tajiks. Herat has districts where you will only find Pashtuns only Populations. There are places in Herat where you will find no sign of war. There are Pashtuns who live in the Iran-Afghanistan border as well.
Historically speaking about Western and South-Western Afghanistan Ghor, Herat, Bagdish till all the way to Kandahar was and is Pashtun land. Well things have changed.
Check this post it has a lot of information and sources which Afghan Pashtun elders/Historians agree with
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1229-Harappa-Ancestry-Project&p=84917&viewfull=1#post84917

Where did the Pashtuns migrate to from Herat? Tbh there's so much ethnic tension I'm reading etc but in my experience Tajiks and Pashtuns have got along pretty we'll. intermarriages are also common. It's the hazaras that the Pashtuns (even Tajiks ) have heated ethnic tensions between them. Another question...what was Kabul before it's increase of ethnic groups from other regions? Tajik dominated ? Now when I look at Kabul all I see are hazaras. Their everywhere.

surbakhunWeesste
05-21-2015, 01:54 AM
Where did the Pashtuns migrate to from Herat?
Another question...what was Kabul before it's increase of ethnic groups from other regions? Tajik dominated ? .

Towards South, East, neighboring countries, overseas...
Kabul had major Qizilbash influx followed by Pashtun.Now its everyone.

Sein
05-21-2015, 11:53 PM
I have some big news to share.

HRP0281 is from Laghman, Afghanistan!

For what it's worth, he is a carbon copy of myself, on most genetic analyses.

I think it is settled, northern Afghan Pashtuns are genetically identical to Pakistani Pashtuns in adjoining parts of FATA, and even to ethnic Pashtuns in the "settled districts" of KPK.

Also, this makes any Indian ancestry for Velvet seem even more implausible. So far, his results are identical to a Nangahari Afghan Pashtun, a Kunar Afghan Pashtun, and to a fully Pashtun Swati Yusufzai. And now, we know that another Laghmani has similar results, just less "Caucasian".

Not to mention a 50% Laghmani Pashtun + 50% Panjsheri Tajik, who is still 18% South Indian, despite his Panjsheri half.

The Barnacle
05-22-2015, 01:02 AM
I have some big news to share.

HRP0281 is from Laghman, Afghanistan!

For what it's worth, he is a carbon copy of myself, on most genetic analyses.

I think it is settled, northern Afghan Pashtuns are genetically identical to Pakistani Pashtuns in adjoining parts of FATA, and even to ethnic Pashtuns in the "settled districts" of KPK.

Also, this makes any Indian ancestry for Velvet seem even more implausible. So far, his results are identical to a Nangahari Afghan Pashtun, a Kunar Afghan Pashtun, and to a fully Pashtun Swati Yusufzai. And now, we know that another Laghmani has similar results, just less "Caucasian".

Not to mention a 50% Laghmani Pashtun + 50% Panjsheri Tajik, who is still 18% South Indian, despite his Panjsheri half.

Hmm I wouldn't go as far to say identical to the Pathans HGDP. They seem much more South Asian shifted than HRP0281. You however yes. Btw where in Pakistan are you from? What tribe? Could you on the kunar and nangahari results please?

The Barnacle
05-22-2015, 01:06 AM
Looking at the Harappa results, it seems it's the Caucasian, South Indian and SW Asian components which are fluctuating for individuals. Looking at seins father, his results seem very similar to a kandahari pashtun except lower Caucasian. SW Asian is at 5%. The Pathans on HGDP are different.

The Barnacle
05-22-2015, 01:11 AM
Afghan pashtun Kandahar

Baloch 34.13
Caucasian 21.92
South Indian 17.22
NE euro 13.10
SW Asian 5.68
Med 1.21

Seins father Pakistani pashtun

Baloch 31.41
Caucasian 18.05
South Indian 18.04
NE euro 12.35
SW Asian 5.13
Med 0.33

Sein
05-22-2015, 01:13 AM
Hmm I wouldn't go as far to say identical to the Pathans HGDP. They seem much more South Asian shifted than HRP0281. You however yes. Btw where in Pakistan are you from? What tribe? Could you on the kunar and nangahari results please?

Bro,

11 out of 22 HGDP Pashtun samples cluster with the most western-shifted Afghan Pashtuns, on Everest's PCA-based cluster analyses. These 11 samples are all from 18% to 24% South Indian, using HarappaWorld. Velvet is 22% South Indian, I'm 21% South Indian, and HRP0281 is 21% South Indian (I think, I forgot the exact score, but it's somewhere between 20% and 22%). There isn't much of a difference.

And even Afghan Pashtuns who are at 14% South Indian are still very similar to those 11 HGDP samples, using PCA, or formal statistics.

The Barnacle
05-22-2015, 01:18 AM
Here's a couple from the HGDP sample

Baloch 44%
Caucasian 9%
South Indian 36%
NE euro 4%
SW Asian 2%
Med 1%

Baloch 44%
Caucasian 13%
South Indian 24%
NE euro 13%
SW Asian 0%
Med 2%

Baloch 38%
Caucasian 9%
South Indian 35%
NE euro 9%
SW Asian 2%
Med 3%

The Barnacle
05-22-2015, 01:22 AM
Obviously we can see that the HGDP Pathans without doubt are different than afghan Pashtuns including Sein and his father. What region are you from Sein? Tribe?

Sein
05-22-2015, 01:23 AM
Here's a couple from the HGDP sample

Baloch 44%
Caucasian 9%
South Indian 36%
NE euro 4%
SW Asian 2%
Med 1%

Baloch 44%
Caucasian 13%
South Indian 24%
NE euro 13%
SW Asian 0%
Med 2%

Baloch 38%
Caucasian 9%
South Indian 35%
NE euro 9%
SW Asian 2%
Med 3%

The first and third samples are from females. So, it's probable that these are from Qasabghar women, or Hindkowan women, who happen to be married to Pashtun men, and have adopted that identity.

Also, we can't compare our ADMIXTURE scores to the HGDP samples, because of the calculator effect.

The Barnacle
05-22-2015, 01:26 AM
The first and third samples are from females. So, it's probable that these are from Qasabghar women, or Hindkowan women, who happen to be married to Pashtun men, and have adopted that identity.

Also, we can't compare our ADMIXTURE scores to the HGDP samples, because of the calculator effect.

Oh come on bro, you would think the women would have a tongue responding "no I'm not a pakhtun but I married one hence I'm still not a pakhtun". This was a study you know.

And plus how do you know their females??

Sein
05-22-2015, 01:32 AM
Oh come on bro, you would think the women would have a tongue responding "no I'm not a pakhtun but I married one hence I'm still not a pakhtun". This was a study you know.

And plus how do you know their females??

They're listed as such (the IDs have gender listed to the side, on the sheet I'm looking at).

For what it's worth, Qasabghar often identify as Pashtun, even though they aren't on tribal charters, and even though they look quite distinct in comparison to Pashtuns.

The Barnacle
05-22-2015, 01:34 AM
Their listed as such (the IDs have gender listed to the side, on the sheet I'm looking at).

For what it's worth, Qasabghar often identify as Pashtun, even though they aren't on tribal charters, and even though they look quite distinct in comparison to Pashtuns.

We'll I doubt they are, when they did Some background research that must've came up but obviously it didn't. Could you pm the kunar and nangaharis Harappa results please?

Kaido
06-26-2015, 08:28 PM
Cousins results.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 35.83
2 S-Indian 24.8
3 Caucasian 17.21
4 NE-Euro 13.56
5 Mediterranean 2.38
6 Siberian 2.38
7 American 1.54
8 Beringian 1.06
9 SW-Asian 0.51
10 NE-Asian 0.42
11 W-African 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.44
2 pathan (hgdp) 6.48
3 kashmiri (harappa) 7.59
4 pashtun (harappa) 7.8
5 sindhi (harappa) 7.96
6 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 8.23
7 kalash (hgdp) 8.43
8 haryana-jatt (harappa) 8.46
9 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 9.59
10 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 9.88
11 burusho (hgdp) 10.42
12 bhatia (harappa) 10.61
13 punjabi (harappa) 11.16
14 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 11.45
15 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 12.03
16 up-muslim (harappa) 12.3
17 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 12.32
18 punjabi-arain (xing) 12.97
19 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 13.13
20 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 13.57

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.6% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 25.4% stalskoe (xing) @ 1.83
2 71.2% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 28.8% stalskoe (xing) @ 2.02
3 84.6% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 15.4% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 2.07
4 84.8% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 15.2% adygei (hgdp) @ 2.13
5 84.8% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 15.2% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 2.21
6 73.2% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 26.8% stalskoe (xing) @ 2.22
7 83.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 16.5% chechen (yunusbayev) @ 2.52
8 72% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 28% urkarah (xing) @ 2.58
9 82.8% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 17.2% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 2.64
10 77.7% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 22.3% stalskoe (xing) @ 2.68
11 86.2% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 13.8% nogai (yunusbayev) @ 2.74
12 87.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 12.5% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 2.85
13 75.5% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 24.5% urkarah (xing) @ 2.91
14 88% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 12% georgian (behar) @ 2.94
15 74.1% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 25.9% urkarah (xing) @ 2.98
16 77.2% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 22.8% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 3.07
17 81.3% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 18.7% stalskoe (xing) @ 3.07
18 85.4% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 14.6% stalskoe (xing) @ 3.08
19 89.1% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 10.9% bulgarian (yunusbayev) @ 3.08
20 72.2% kashmiri-pahari (harappa) + 27.8% stalskoe (xing) @ 3.08

icebreaker
10-09-2015, 08:46 PM
Father

1 Caucasian 46.33
2 Baloch 17.92
3 SW-Asian 11.67
4 Mediterranean 9.09
5 NE-Euro 5.95
6 Siberian 4.32
7 NE-Asian 2.61

Mother

1 Caucasian 35.52
2 Baloch 16.47
3 Mediterranean 12.24
4 NE-Euro 9.86
5 SW-Asian 9.78
6 Siberian 6.11
7 NE-Asian 3.95
8 S-Indian 3.08
9 American 1.66

L1983
05-23-2016, 05:04 PM
English/Irish results

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 46.35
2 Mediterranean 29.01
3 Baloch 11.06
4 Caucasian 10.96
5 American 0.94
6 SW-Asian 0.86
7 S-Indian 0.82

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 hungarian (behar) 7.27
2 utahn-white (1000genomes) 7.31
3 n-european (xing) 7.36
4 utahn-white (hapmap) 8.07
5 french (hgdp) 8.43
6 british (1000genomes) 9.06
7 slovenian (xing) 9.08
8 orcadian (hgdp) 11.23
9 ukranian (yunusbayev) 16.17
10 romanian-a (behar) 17.98
11 spaniard (behar) 20.11
12 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 20.36
13 belorussian (behar) 21.09
14 italian (hgdp) 21.25
15 spaniard (1000genomes) 21.26
16 mordovian (yunusbayev) 21.64
17 russian (behar) 22.9
18 russian (hgdp) 24.47
19 tuscan (hapmap) 26.71
20 tuscan (hgdp) 26.98

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 10% georgian (harappa) @ 1.22
2 88.5% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 11.5% adygei (hgdp) @ 1.23
3 90.5% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 9.5% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 1.24
4 88.3% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 11.7% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 1.27
5 90.7% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 9.3% georgian (behar) @ 1.3
6 88.7% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 11.3% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 1.31
7 87.5% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 12.5% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 1.41
8 87.8% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 12.2% chechen (yunusbayev) @ 1.42
9 89.3% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 10.7% armenian (behar) @ 1.6
10 86.2% british (1000genomes) + 13.8% adygei (hgdp) @ 1.61
11 86% british (1000genomes) + 14% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 1.63
12 88.5% british (1000genomes) + 11.5% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 1.67
13 88.8% british (1000genomes) + 11.2% georgian (behar) @ 1.68
14 86.1% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 13.9% stalskoe (xing) @ 1.73
15 86.4% british (1000genomes) + 13.6% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 1.74
16 86% utahn-white (hapmap) + 14% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) @ 1.77
17 88.1% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 11.9% azeri (harappa) @ 1.78
18 87.3% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 12.7% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) @ 1.8
19 86.4% utahn-white (hapmap) + 13.6% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) @ 1.81
20 87.8% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 12.2% turk (behar) @ 1.81


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% orcadian +50% serbian @ 3.534812


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% british +25% bulgarian +25% utahn-white @ 2.893901


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 serbian + utahn-white + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.726170
2 bulgarian + orcadian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.816032
3 french + orcadian + serbian + utahn-white @ 2.828613
4 french + serbian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.871038
5 british + serbian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.892941
6 british + british + bulgarian + utahn-white @ 2.893901
7 british + bulgarian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.902715
8 british + french + serbian + utahn-white @ 2.913620
9 bulgarian + orcadian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.917381
10 british + bulgarian + orcadian + utahn-white @ 2.917862
11 french + orcadian + serbian + utahn-white @ 2.920686
12 french + n-european + orcadian + serbian @ 2.922141
13 british + british + bulgarian + utahn-white @ 2.932040
14 british + bulgarian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.941926
15 french + serbian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.945066
16 romanian-a + utahn-white + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.974233
17 romanian-a + utahn-white + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.975902
18 british + romanian-a + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.978461
19 british + bulgarian + orcadian + utahn-white @ 2.986074
20 british + romanian-a + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 2.992527

jortita
05-24-2016, 12:39 AM
GedMatch Results

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 38.08
2 Baloch 25.52
3 NE-Asian 9.17
4 NE-Euro 6.67
5 SE-Asian 6.55
6 Caucasian 6.23
7 Siberian 3.56
8 Beringian 1.52
9 Papuan 1.5
10 Mediterranean 1.14
11 E-African 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 bengali (harappa) 10.2
2 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 12.02
3 bihari-muslim (harappa) 12.11
4 up-muslim (harappa) 13.2
5 cochin-jew (behar) 14.61
6 nepalese-a (xing) 15.05
7 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 15.12
8 vaish (reich) 15.39
9 bihari (harappa) 15.51
10 maharashtrian (harappa) 15.53
11 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 15.56
12 up (harappa) 15.62
13 up-brahmin (harappa) 15.73
14 sri-lankan (harappa) 15.85
15 caribbean-indian (harappa) 15.98
16 nepalese-c (xing) 16.03
17 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 16.1
18 rajasthani (harappa) 16.27
19 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 16.43
20 kerala-christian (harappa) 16.57

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.9% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 20.1% burmanese (chaubey) @ 2.51
2 80.4% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 19.6% garo (chaubey) @ 2.54
3 79.9% bengali (harappa) + 20.1% uyghur (hgdp) @ 2.87
4 79.3% bengali (harappa) + 20.7% uzbek (behar) @ 2.97
5 79.6% bengali (harappa) + 20.4% hazara (hgdp) @ 3.38
6 80.8% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 19.2% garo (chaubey) @ 3.41
7 80.4% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 19.6% burmanese (chaubey) @ 3.67
8 74% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 26% khasi (chaubey) @ 3.72
9 86.1% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.9% miao (hgdp) @ 3.78
10 86.2% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.8% singapore-chinese (sgvp) @ 3.91
11 86.3% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.7% chinese (xing) @ 3.95
12 86.4% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.6% she (hgdp) @ 4
13 86.4% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.6% han (hgdp) @ 4.02
14 86.4% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.6% han-chinese-south (1000genomes) @ 4.03
15 83.4% bengali (harappa) + 16.6% nogai (yunusbayev) @ 4.1
16 86.6% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.4% tujia (hgdp) @ 4.17
17 86.6% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.4% chinese-american (hapmap) @ 4.2
18 74.4% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 25.6% khasi (chaubey) @ 4.28
19 76.6% vaish (reich) + 23.4% garo (chaubey) @ 4.3
20 76% vaish (reich) + 24% burmanese (chaubey) @ 4.31

MonkeyDLuffy
05-24-2016, 03:05 AM
GedMatch Results

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 38.08
2 Baloch 25.52
3 NE-Asian 9.17
4 NE-Euro 6.67
5 SE-Asian 6.55
6 Caucasian 6.23
7 Siberian 3.56
8 Beringian 1.52
9 Papuan 1.5
10 Mediterranean 1.14
11 E-African 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 bengali (harappa) 10.2
2 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 12.02
3 bihari-muslim (harappa) 12.11
4 up-muslim (harappa) 13.2
5 cochin-jew (behar) 14.61
6 nepalese-a (xing) 15.05
7 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 15.12
8 vaish (reich) 15.39
9 bihari (harappa) 15.51
10 maharashtrian (harappa) 15.53
11 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 15.56
12 up (harappa) 15.62
13 up-brahmin (harappa) 15.73
14 sri-lankan (harappa) 15.85
15 caribbean-indian (harappa) 15.98
16 nepalese-c (xing) 16.03
17 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 16.1
18 rajasthani (harappa) 16.27
19 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 16.43
20 kerala-christian (harappa) 16.57

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.9% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 20.1% burmanese (chaubey) @ 2.51
2 80.4% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 19.6% garo (chaubey) @ 2.54
3 79.9% bengali (harappa) + 20.1% uyghur (hgdp) @ 2.87
4 79.3% bengali (harappa) + 20.7% uzbek (behar) @ 2.97
5 79.6% bengali (harappa) + 20.4% hazara (hgdp) @ 3.38
6 80.8% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 19.2% garo (chaubey) @ 3.41
7 80.4% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 19.6% burmanese (chaubey) @ 3.67
8 74% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 26% khasi (chaubey) @ 3.72
9 86.1% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.9% miao (hgdp) @ 3.78
10 86.2% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.8% singapore-chinese (sgvp) @ 3.91
11 86.3% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.7% chinese (xing) @ 3.95
12 86.4% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.6% she (hgdp) @ 4
13 86.4% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.6% han (hgdp) @ 4.02
14 86.4% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.6% han-chinese-south (1000genomes) @ 4.03
15 83.4% bengali (harappa) + 16.6% nogai (yunusbayev) @ 4.1
16 86.6% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.4% tujia (hgdp) @ 4.17
17 86.6% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 13.4% chinese-american (hapmap) @ 4.2
18 74.4% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 25.6% khasi (chaubey) @ 4.28
19 76.6% vaish (reich) + 23.4% garo (chaubey) @ 4.3
20 76% vaish (reich) + 24% burmanese (chaubey) @ 4.31

Hi, Is your background Bengali?

jortita
05-24-2016, 04:29 AM
Hi, Is your background Bengali?

Assamese

MonkeyDLuffy
05-24-2016, 04:34 AM
Assamese

I just took the guess from your population pop up. Although your east asian sure is high as I'd expect from someone from assam.

jortita
05-24-2016, 04:38 AM
I just took the guess from your population pop up. Although your east asian sure is high as I'd expect from someone from assam.

Even for Bengalis, East Asian is likely to be high with those either from Bangladesh or Bangladeshi origins and especially from areas adjoining NE India or Myanmar such as Sylhet, Comila and Chittagong as opposed to other areas. Reza if I am not mistaken is from Sylhet and Razib Khan from Comilla.

Have you come across any other Assamese samples including Ahom or other ethnic samples, as I am quite interested in comparing, thanks

MonkeyDLuffy
05-24-2016, 04:51 AM
Even for Bengalis, East Asian is likely to be high with those either from Bangladesh or Bangladeshi origins and especially from areas adjoining NE India or Myanmar such as Sylhet, Comila and Chittagong as opposed to other areas. Reza if I am not mistaken is from Sylhet and Razib Khan from Comilla.

Have you come across any other Assamese samples including Ahom or other ethnic samples, as I am quite interested in comparing, thanks

No, you're the first Assamese sample I've seen so far. Have seen few bengalis though, with high east asian. Have you checked Harappa ancestry project's population spreadsheet?

nvm, they didn't have any Assamese sample either. How did you get the test in India?

khanabadoshi
05-24-2016, 05:11 AM
No, you're the first Assamese sample I've seen so far. Have seen few bengalis though, with high east asian. Have you checked Harappa ancestry project's population spreadsheet?

nvm, they didn't have any Assamese sample either. How did you get the test in India?


check out his punt22World results!

jortita
05-24-2016, 07:06 AM
No, you're the first Assamese sample I've seen so far. Have seen few bengalis though, with high east asian. Have you checked Harappa ancestry project's population spreadsheet?

nvm, they didn't have any Assamese sample either. How did you get the test in India?

I am based in Bangkok, Thailand and the raw data is my Geno 2.0 next gen converted to FTDNA. I have just received my 23andme kit through Hong Kong and will send my sample when I can sort with them whether I can mail it directly from Bangkok or need to send it back to my Hong Kong based friend

pantheratigris
05-28-2016, 01:38 PM
My HarappaWorld Results

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 38.99
2 S-Indian 30.30
3 Caucasian 14.75
4 NE-Euro 10.50
5 Siberian 2.66
6 SE-Asian 1.22
7 SW-Asian 1.20


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 punjabi-khatri @ 3.792929
2 kashmiri-pandit @ 4.409097
3 pushtikar-brahmin @ 4.675718
4 kashmiri @ 4.690756
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim @ 5.234927
6 sindhi @ 5.471786
7 punjabi @ 5.923509
8 punjabi-jatt-sikh @ 6.380467
9 punjabi-brahmin @ 6.488206
10 singapore-indian-c @ 7.299213
11 pathan @ 7.951433
12 kashmiri-pahari @ 7.992730
13 gujarati-muslim @ 8.271935
14 rajasthani-brahmin @ 8.383976
15 punjabi-arain @ 8.439070
16 punjabi-ramgarhia @ 8.527472
17 up-muslim @ 8.990481
18 bhatia @ 9.644446
19 nepali @ 10.314409
20 sindhi @ 10.541694

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% punjabi-khatri +50% pushtikar-brahmin @ 3.181605


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% kashmiri-pandit +25% pathan +25% pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.673719


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 kalash + pathan + pathan + sourastrian @ 2.454459
2 kalash + pathan + pathan + srivastava @ 2.536242
3 bhatia + gujarati-a + kerala-brahmin + urkarah @ 2.549126
4 bihari-muslim + kalash + kalash + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.567888
5 bhatia + gujarati-a + kerala-brahmin + urkarah @ 2.596873
6 bihari-muslim + kalash + pathan + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.600366
7 gujarati-a + punjabi-arain + punjabi-ramgarhia + urkarah @ 2.612786
8 gujarati-a + punjabi-ramgarhia + punjabi-ramgarhia + urkarah @ 2.623632
9 kalash + kashmiri-pandit + pushtikar-brahmin + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.649276
10 bhatia + gujarati-a + meghawal + urkarah @ 2.660105
11 gujarati-a + punjabi-ramgarhia + punjabi-ramgarhia + urkarah @ 2.661638
12 kalash + punjabi-brahmin + pushtikar-brahmin + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.662057
13 kashmiri-pandit + kashmiri-pandit + pathan + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.673719
14 kalash + kalash + pathan + sourastrian @ 2.676890
15 bhatia + gujarati-a + meghawal + urkarah @ 2.689809
16 bhatia + gujarati-patel + kerala-brahmin + urkarah @ 2.691285
17 bhatia + gujarati-a + gujarati-b + urkarah @ 2.693520
18 gujarati-a + punjabi-arain + punjabi-ramgarhia + urkarah @ 2.698428
19 bhatia + gujarati-a + gujarati-b + urkarah @ 2.708445
20 kalash + kalash + karnataka-brahmin + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.714304

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
06-27-2016, 02:22 AM
My results

To simplify it I'm between 94-95% Bantu Kenyan with 5-6% Arabian and my mum's 93-94% Bantu Kenyan with 6-7% Arabian.

Kit M707191

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 W-African 59.81
2 E-African 25.56
3 Pygmy 6.97
4 SW-Asian 4.45
5 San 2.12
6 S-Indian 0.82
7 Mediterranean 0.23
8 Papuan 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 bantukenya (hgdp) 5.24
2 luhya (hapmap) 6.42
3 luhya (1000genomes) 6.49
4 mada (henn2012) 12.16
5 kaba (henn2012) 24.4
6 fulani (henn2012) 24.72
7 alur (xing) 24.89
8 siddi (reich) 26.6
9 nguni (xing) 27.17
10 hema (xing) 27.64
11 pedi (xing) 28.43
12 african-american (1000genomes) 29.14
13 bantusouthafrica (hgdp) 29.22
14 fang (henn2012) 30.44
15 kongo (henn2012) 33.19
16 xhosa (henn2012) 33.68
17 bulala (henn2012) 33.9
18 sotho-tswana (xing) 36.18
19 bamoun (henn2012) 36.39
20 african-caribbean (1000genomes) 36.74

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.6% hema (xing) + 45.4% kongo (henn2012) @ 1.04
2 56.8% hema (xing) + 43.2% bamoun (henn2012) @ 1.19
3 72.6% fang (henn2012) + 27.4% ariblacksmith (pagani) @ 1.36
4 69.5% fang (henn2012) + 30.5% maasai (1000genomes) @ 1.51
5 70.4% kongo (henn2012) + 29.6% aricultivator (pagani) @ 1.53
6 67.6% kongo (henn2012) + 32.4% maasai (1000genomes) @ 1.7
7 72.2% fang (henn2012) + 27.8% aricultivator (pagani) @ 1.75
8 70.8% kongo (henn2012) + 29.2% ariblacksmith (pagani) @ 1.76
9 52.4% hema (xing) + 47.6% fang (henn2012) @ 2.23
10 65.6% bamoun (henn2012) + 34.4% maasai (1000genomes) @ 2.75
11 94.6% bantukenya (hgdp) + 5.4% qatari (henn2012) @ 2.75
12 94.8% bantukenya (hgdp) + 5.2% bedouin (hgdp) @ 2.86
13 95.1% bantukenya (hgdp) + 4.9% saudi (behar) @ 2.88
14 53.2% kaba (henn2012) + 46.8% hema (xing) @ 2.96
15 61.6% hema (xing) + 38.4% igbo (henn2012) @ 2.99
16 95.3% bantukenya (hgdp) + 4.7% yemen-jew (behar) @ 3.2
17 67.9% kaba (henn2012) + 32.1% sandawe (henn2011) @ 3.25
18 94.4% bantukenya (hgdp) + 5.6% libya (henn2012) @ 3.27
19 68.5% bamoun (henn2012) + 31.5% aricultivator (pagani) @ 3.27
20 94.3% bantukenya (hgdp) + 5.7% yemenese (b



My mum's results: Kit M024072

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 W-African 59.13
2 E-African 26.13
3 Pygmy 6.58
4 SW-Asian 4.18
5 San 2.25
6 Mediterranean 1.15
7 Beringian 0.29
8 Caucasian 0.21
9 Papuan 0.05
10 American 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 bantukenya (hgdp) 5.46
2 luhya (1000genomes) 6.4
3 luhya (hapmap) 6.41
4 mada (henn2012) 11.98
5 alur (xing) 24.36
6 fulani (henn2012) 24.37
7 kaba (henn2012) 25.18
8 hema (xing) 26.78
9 siddi (reich) 27
10 nguni (xing) 27.58
11 pedi (xing) 28.89
12 african-american (1000genomes) 29.65
13 bantusouthafrica (hgdp) 29.75
14 fang (henn2012) 31.35
15 bulala (henn2012) 33
16 xhosa (henn2012) 33.76
17 kongo (henn2012) 34.08
18 sotho-tswana (xing) 36.41
19 bamoun (henn2012) 37.25
20 african-caribbean (1000genomes) 37.45

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.2% hema (xing) + 41.8% bamoun (henn2012) @ 1.11
2 56% hema (xing) + 44% kongo (henn2012) @ 1.35
3 71.8% fang (henn2012) + 28.2% ariblacksmith (pagani) @ 1.68
4 69.6% kongo (henn2012) + 30.4% aricultivator (pagani) @ 1.7
5 65.3% kongo (henn2012) + 34.7% maasai (hapmap) @ 1.85
6 70.1% kongo (henn2012) + 29.9% ariblacksmith (pagani) @ 1.86
7 68.6% fang (henn2012) + 31.4% maasai (1000genomes) @ 1.9
8 66.7% kongo (henn2012) + 33.3% maasai (1000genomes) @ 1.91
9 71.4% fang (henn2012) + 28.6% aricultivator (pagani) @ 2.06
10 54% hema (xing) + 46% fang (henn2012) @ 2.47
11 51.5% kaba (henn2012) + 48.5% hema (xing) @ 2.56
12 62.8% hema (xing) + 37.2% igbo (henn2012) @ 2.58
13 64.8% bamoun (henn2012) + 35.2% maasai (1000genomes) @ 2.63
14 93.5% bantukenya (hgdp) + 6.5% libya (henn2012) @ 2.7
15 94.4% bantukenya (hgdp) + 5.6% bedouin (hgdp) @ 2.7
16 94.3% bantukenya (hgdp) + 5.7% qatari (henn2012) @ 2.74
17 94.7% bantukenya (hgdp) + 5.3% saudi (behar) @ 2.81
18 93.1% bantukenya (hgdp) + 6.9% moroccan (behar) @ 2.87
19 93.6% bantukenya (hgdp) + 6.4% mozabite (hgdp) @ 2.96
20 93.7% bantukenya (hgdp) + 6.3% saharawi (henn2012) @ 2.98

BalkanKiwi
06-27-2016, 09:29 AM
@SWAHILLI_PRINCE16

I've merged your thread into this one as it seems a more appropriate place. :)

BalkanKiwi
06-27-2016, 09:29 AM
@SWAHILLI_PRINCE16

I've merged your thread into this one as it seems a more appropriate place. :)

cvolt
06-27-2016, 12:53 PM
Mine


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 50.06
2 Mediterranean 31.82
3 Baloch 8.96
4 Caucasian 6.3
5 Siberian 1.47
6 SW-Asian 0.56
7 Papuan 0.5
8 American 0.15
9 W-African 0.13
10 San 0.05



Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 utahn-white @ 2.359575
2 utahn-white @ 3.421187
3 n-european @ 3.438009
4 british @ 4.285647
5 orcadian @ 6.864096
6 french @ 9.859340
7 hungarian @ 11.730639
8 slovenian @ 12.816133
9 ukranian @ 18.015419
10 serbian @ 21.594378
11 belorussian @ 21.969809
12 spaniard @ 23.008791
13 mordovian @ 23.172171
14 spaniard @ 24.000664
15 russian @ 24.612244
16 russian @ 25.270756
17 romanian-a @ 25.946812
18 lithuanian @ 27.393578
19 italian @ 27.594971
20 bulgarian @ 28.518154

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% n-european +50% utahn-white @ 2.286915


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% orcadian +25% russian +25% spaniard @ 1.681192


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 basque + mordovian + orcadian + slovenian @ 1.211732
2 basque + hungarian + orcadian + russian @ 1.264958
3 basque + orcadian + russian + slovenian @ 1.392401
4 basque + hungarian + mordovian + orcadian @ 1.407501
5 hungarian + orcadian + russian + spain-basc @ 1.430378
6 mordovian + orcadian + slovenian + spain-basc @ 1.456762
7 mordovian + n-european + n-european + spain-basc @ 1.458159
8 basque + british + russian + slovenian @ 1.462174
9 mordovian + n-european + spain-basc + utahn-white @ 1.470864
10 hungarian + mordovian + orcadian + spain-basc @ 1.530811
11 basque + british + hungarian + russian @ 1.547685
12 french + n-european + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.578632
13 basque + orcadian + ukranian + ukranian @ 1.586284
14 basque + mordovian + n-european + n-european @ 1.587873
15 belorussian + british + orcadian + spaniard @ 1.599497
16 british + hungarian + russian + spain-basc @ 1.609539
17 french + n-european + n-european + utahn-white @ 1.638746
18 orcadian + russian + slovenian + spain-basc @ 1.659396
19 british + russian + slovenian + spain-basc @ 1.663412
20 orcadian + orcadian + russian + spaniard @ 1.681192

Abd.H
08-21-2016, 12:15 AM
what does Baloch exactly represent here ? because I am wondering why I scored Baloch more than Mediterranean
My results :

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.26
2 SW-Asian 19.62
3 Baloch 15.18
4 Mediterranean 12.84
5 NE-Euro 5.11
6 E-African 1.76
7 SE-Asian 1.12
8 Papuan 0.86
9 S-Indian 0.74
10 W-African 0.51

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 lebanese (behar) 6.15
2 lebanese-muslim (haber) 6.63
3 palestinian (harappa) 6.75
4 syrian (behar) 7.23
5 armenian (harappa) 7.67
6 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 8.24
7 iraqi-arab (harappa) 8.39
8 iraq-jew (behar) 9.48
9 lebanese-druze (haber) 9.49
10 lebanese-christian (haber) 9.79
11 turkish (harappa) 9.98
12 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 10.28
13 georgia-jew (behar) 10.4
14 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 10.6
15 iranian-jew (behar) 10.65
16 assyrian (harappa) 11.12
17 cypriot (behar) 11.24
18 jordanian (behar) 11.39
19 turk (behar) 11.92
20 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 12.14

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.3% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 35.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.05
2 69.6% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 30.4% morocco-jew (behar) @ 2.09
3 66.4% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 33.6% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 2.4
4 67.7% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 32.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 2.43
5 82.9% iranian-jew (behar) + 17.1% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 2.53
6 84.5% iraq-jew (behar) + 15.5% spaniard (behar) @ 2.54
7 85.2% iraq-jew (behar) + 14.8% french (hgdp) @ 2.57
8 84.6% iraq-jew (behar) + 15.4% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 2.57
9 63.6% iranian-jew (behar) + 36.4% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.59
10 81.3% iraq-jew (behar) + 18.7% italian (hgdp) @ 2.72
11 57.9% iraqi-arab (harappa) + 42.1% cypriot (behar) @ 2.76
12 71.8% lebanese (behar) + 28.2% kurd (yunusbayev) @ 2.77
13 63.6% lebanese (behar) + 36.4% turkish (harappa) @ 2.82
14 75.7% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 24.3% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 2.85
15 83.6% lebanese (behar) + 16.4% lezgin (behar) @ 2.88
16 79.4% iranian-jew (behar) + 20.6% italian (hgdp) @ 2.93
17 80.1% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 19.9% italian (hgdp) @ 2.94
18 56.8% lebanese (behar) + 43.2% armenian (harappa) @ 2.96
19 78% iraq-jew (behar) + 22% tuscan (hapmap) @ 2.97
20 61.1% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 38.9% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 2.98

jatt2016
08-21-2016, 12:52 AM
what does Baloch exactly represent here ? because I am wondering why I scored Baloch more than Mediterranean
My results :

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.26
2 SW-Asian 19.62
3 Baloch 15.18
4 Mediterranean 12.84
5 NE-Euro 5.11
6 E-African 1.76
7 SE-Asian 1.12
8 Papuan 0.86
9 S-Indian 0.74
10 W-African 0.51

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 lebanese (behar) 6.15
2 lebanese-muslim (haber) 6.63
3 palestinian (harappa) 6.75
4 syrian (behar) 7.23
5 armenian (harappa) 7.67
6 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 8.24
7 iraqi-arab (harappa) 8.39
8 iraq-jew (behar) 9.48
9 lebanese-druze (haber) 9.49
10 lebanese-christian (haber) 9.79
11 turkish (harappa) 9.98
12 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 10.28
13 georgia-jew (behar) 10.4
14 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 10.6
15 iranian-jew (behar) 10.65
16 assyrian (harappa) 11.12
17 cypriot (behar) 11.24
18 jordanian (behar) 11.39
19 turk (behar) 11.92
20 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 12.14

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.3% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 35.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.05
2 69.6% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 30.4% morocco-jew (behar) @ 2.09
3 66.4% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 33.6% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 2.4
4 67.7% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 32.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 2.43
5 82.9% iranian-jew (behar) + 17.1% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 2.53
6 84.5% iraq-jew (behar) + 15.5% spaniard (behar) @ 2.54
7 85.2% iraq-jew (behar) + 14.8% french (hgdp) @ 2.57
8 84.6% iraq-jew (behar) + 15.4% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 2.57
9 63.6% iranian-jew (behar) + 36.4% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.59
10 81.3% iraq-jew (behar) + 18.7% italian (hgdp) @ 2.72
11 57.9% iraqi-arab (harappa) + 42.1% cypriot (behar) @ 2.76
12 71.8% lebanese (behar) + 28.2% kurd (yunusbayev) @ 2.77
13 63.6% lebanese (behar) + 36.4% turkish (harappa) @ 2.82
14 75.7% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 24.3% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 2.85
15 83.6% lebanese (behar) + 16.4% lezgin (behar) @ 2.88
16 79.4% iranian-jew (behar) + 20.6% italian (hgdp) @ 2.93
17 80.1% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 19.9% italian (hgdp) @ 2.94
18 56.8% lebanese (behar) + 43.2% armenian (harappa) @ 2.96
19 78% iraq-jew (behar) + 22% tuscan (hapmap) @ 2.97
20 61.1% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 38.9% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 2.98

Baloch is an ethnic group in Pakistan and the Harrapa calculator named a cluster of SNPS after them...doesn't make any sense. It should have been named " south Asian" or perhaps Pakistani/North western India etc..

khanabadoshi
08-21-2016, 04:46 AM
what does Baloch exactly represent here ? because I am wondering why I scored Baloch more than Mediterranean


This is a very old calculator, before the discovery of Kotias/CHG and Iran N. The component peaked in Baloch so it was named "Baloch"... it likely represents something between CHG and Iran N.

tippy
08-21-2016, 08:24 AM
what does Baloch exactly represent here ? because I am wondering why I scored Baloch more than Mediterranean
My results :

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.26
2 SW-Asian 19.62
3 Baloch 15.18
4 Mediterranean 12.84
5 NE-Euro 5.11
6 E-African 1.76
7 SE-Asian 1.12
8 Papuan 0.86
9 S-Indian 0.74
10 W-African 0.51

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 lebanese (behar) 6.15
2 lebanese-muslim (haber) 6.63
3 palestinian (harappa) 6.75
4 syrian (behar) 7.23
5 armenian (harappa) 7.67
6 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 8.24
7 iraqi-arab (harappa) 8.39
8 iraq-jew (behar) 9.48
9 lebanese-druze (haber) 9.49
10 lebanese-christian (haber) 9.79
11 turkish (harappa) 9.98
12 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 10.28
13 georgia-jew (behar) 10.4
14 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 10.6
15 iranian-jew (behar) 10.65
16 assyrian (harappa) 11.12
17 cypriot (behar) 11.24
18 jordanian (behar) 11.39
19 turk (behar) 11.92
20 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 12.14

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.3% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 35.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.05
2 69.6% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 30.4% morocco-jew (behar) @ 2.09
3 66.4% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 33.6% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 2.4
4 67.7% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 32.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 2.43
5 82.9% iranian-jew (behar) + 17.1% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 2.53
6 84.5% iraq-jew (behar) + 15.5% spaniard (behar) @ 2.54
7 85.2% iraq-jew (behar) + 14.8% french (hgdp) @ 2.57
8 84.6% iraq-jew (behar) + 15.4% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 2.57
9 63.6% iranian-jew (behar) + 36.4% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.59
10 81.3% iraq-jew (behar) + 18.7% italian (hgdp) @ 2.72
11 57.9% iraqi-arab (harappa) + 42.1% cypriot (behar) @ 2.76
12 71.8% lebanese (behar) + 28.2% kurd (yunusbayev) @ 2.77
13 63.6% lebanese (behar) + 36.4% turkish (harappa) @ 2.82
14 75.7% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 24.3% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 2.85
15 83.6% lebanese (behar) + 16.4% lezgin (behar) @ 2.88
16 79.4% iranian-jew (behar) + 20.6% italian (hgdp) @ 2.93
17 80.1% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 19.9% italian (hgdp) @ 2.94
18 56.8% lebanese (behar) + 43.2% armenian (harappa) @ 2.96
19 78% iraq-jew (behar) + 22% tuscan (hapmap) @ 2.97
20 61.1% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 38.9% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 2.98

Once again your scores are very close to moms


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.61
2 SW-Asian 18.4
3 Baloch 16.97
4 Mediterranean 13.41
5 NE-Euro 3.38
6 E-African 1.62
7 NE-Asian 1.3
8 SE-Asian 0.91
9 S-Indian 0.86
10 Siberian 0.76
11 W-African 0.53
12 Beringian 0.43
13 Papuan 0.43
14 San 0.26
15 Pygmy 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 armenian (harappa) 7.39
2 iraqi-arab (harappa) 7.41
3 palestinian (harappa) 7.43
4 lebanese (behar) 7.63
5 lebanese-muslim (haber) 8.14
6 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 8.39
7 syrian (behar) 8.68
8 turkish (harappa) 9.08
9 iraq-jew (behar) 10.45
10 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 10.55
11 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 10.57
12 lebanese-druze (haber) 11.1
13 iranian-jew (behar) 11.24
14 lebanese-christian (haber) 11.5
15 assyrian (harappa) 11.61
16 kurd (harappa) 11.64
17 georgia-jew (behar) 11.76
18 turk (behar) 12
19 jordanian (behar) 12.45
20 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 12.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.2% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 12.8% tunisia (henn2012) @ 2.08
2 86.3% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 13.7% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 2.34
3 85% armenian (harappa) + 15% libya (henn2012) @ 2.41
4 88% armenian (harappa) + 12% saharawi (henn2012) @ 2.59
5 88% armenian (harappa) + 12% mozabite (hgdp) @ 2.74
6 87.3% armenian (harappa) + 12.7% algeria (henn2012) @ 2.84
7 69.8% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 30.2% morocco-jew (behar) @ 2.85
8 87.4% armenian (harappa) + 12.6% moroccan (behar) @ 2.97
9 86.1% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 13.9% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 2.99
10 85.7% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 14.3% algeria (henn2012) @ 3
11 85.2% iranian-jew (behar) + 14.8% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 3.02
12 86.3% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 13.7% basque (hgdp) @ 3.02
13 83.2% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 16.8% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 3.05
14 85.5% iranian-jew (behar) + 14.5% basque (hgdp) @ 3.1
15 88.3% armenian (harappa) + 11.7% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 3.12
16 61.8% lebanese (behar) + 38.2% kurd (harappa) @ 3.28
17 66.7% lebanese (behar) + 33.3% iranian (harappa) @ 3.29
18 86.7% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 13.3% mozabite (hgdp) @ 3.3
19 82.3% iranian-jew (behar) + 17.7% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 3.31
20 86.9% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 13.1% saharawi (henn2012) @ 3.37

Abd.H
08-21-2016, 09:55 AM
Once again your scores are very close to moms


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.61
2 SW-Asian 18.4
3 Baloch 16.97
4 Mediterranean 13.41
5 NE-Euro 3.38
6 E-African 1.62
7 NE-Asian 1.3
8 SE-Asian 0.91
9 S-Indian 0.86
10 Siberian 0.76
11 W-African 0.53
12 Beringian 0.43
13 Papuan 0.43
14 San 0.26
15 Pygmy 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 armenian (harappa) 7.39
2 iraqi-arab (harappa) 7.41
3 palestinian (harappa) 7.43
4 lebanese (behar) 7.63
5 lebanese-muslim (haber) 8.14
6 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 8.39
7 syrian (behar) 8.68
8 turkish (harappa) 9.08
9 iraq-jew (behar) 10.45
10 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 10.55
11 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 10.57
12 lebanese-druze (haber) 11.1
13 iranian-jew (behar) 11.24
14 lebanese-christian (haber) 11.5
15 assyrian (harappa) 11.61
16 kurd (harappa) 11.64
17 georgia-jew (behar) 11.76
18 turk (behar) 12
19 jordanian (behar) 12.45
20 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 12.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.2% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 12.8% tunisia (henn2012) @ 2.08
2 86.3% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 13.7% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 2.34
3 85% armenian (harappa) + 15% libya (henn2012) @ 2.41
4 88% armenian (harappa) + 12% saharawi (henn2012) @ 2.59
5 88% armenian (harappa) + 12% mozabite (hgdp) @ 2.74
6 87.3% armenian (harappa) + 12.7% algeria (henn2012) @ 2.84
7 69.8% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 30.2% morocco-jew (behar) @ 2.85
8 87.4% armenian (harappa) + 12.6% moroccan (behar) @ 2.97
9 86.1% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 13.9% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 2.99
10 85.7% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 14.3% algeria (henn2012) @ 3
11 85.2% iranian-jew (behar) + 14.8% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 3.02
12 86.3% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 13.7% basque (hgdp) @ 3.02
13 83.2% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 16.8% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 3.05
14 85.5% iranian-jew (behar) + 14.5% basque (hgdp) @ 3.1
15 88.3% armenian (harappa) + 11.7% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 3.12
16 61.8% lebanese (behar) + 38.2% kurd (harappa) @ 3.28
17 66.7% lebanese (behar) + 33.3% iranian (harappa) @ 3.29
18 86.7% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 13.3% mozabite (hgdp) @ 3.3
19 82.3% iranian-jew (behar) + 17.7% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 3.31
20 86.9% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 13.1% saharawi (henn2012) @ 3.37


Especially , those results which i put them in bold , almost the same percentages .
1 64.3% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 35.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.05
2 69.6% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 30.4% morocco-jew (behar) @ 2.09
3 66.4% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 33.6% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 2.4
4 67.7% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 32.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 2.43
5 82.9% iranian-jew (behar) + 17.1% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 2.53
6 84.5% iraq-jew (behar) + 15.5% spaniard (behar) @ 2.54
7 85.2% iraq-jew (behar) + 14.8% french (hgdp) @ 2.57
8 84.6% iraq-jew (behar) + 15.4% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 2.57
9 63.6% iranian-jew (behar) + 36.4% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.59
10 81.3% iraq-jew (behar) + 18.7% italian (hgdp) @ 2.72
11 57.9% iraqi-arab (harappa) + 42.1% cypriot (behar) @ 2.76
12 71.8% lebanese (behar) + 28.2% kurd (yunusbayev) @ 2.77
13 63.6% lebanese (behar) + 36.4% turkish (harappa) @ 2.82
14 75.7% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 24.3% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 2.85
15 83.6% lebanese (behar) + 16.4% lezgin (behar) @ 2.88
16 79.4% iranian-jew (behar) + 20.6% italian (hgdp) @ 2.93
17 80.1% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 19.9% italian (hgdp) @ 2.94
18 56.8% lebanese (behar) + 43.2% armenian (harappa) @ 2.96
19 78% iraq-jew (behar) + 22% tuscan (hapmap) @ 2.97
20 61.1% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) + 38.9% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 2.98

Mofrad
08-21-2016, 12:02 PM
My Harappa results:

1 Caucasian 27.24
2 NE-Euro 25.26
3 Mediterranean 24.62
4 Baloch 10.56
5 SW-Asian 9.49
6 Beringian 1.56
7 Papuan 0.65
8 E-African 0.31
9 S-Indian 0.22
10 NE-Asian 0.1

My Father's Harappa results

1 Caucasian 32.25
2 NE-Euro 19.23
3 Baloch 18.1
4 Mediterranean 16.28
5 SW-Asian 9.06
6 Beringian 1.9
7 Siberian 1.03
8 NE-Asian 1.01
9 S-Indian 0.62
10 E-African 0.27
11 San 0.17
12 American 0.07

My Mother's Harappa results

1 Mediterranean 32.25
2 NE-Euro 29.2
3 Caucasian 21
4 SW-Asian 8.46
5 Baloch 6.77
6 Papuan 0.87
7 E-African 0.61
8 W-African 0.37
9 American 0.27
10 SE-Asian 0.13
11 S-Indian 0.07

MonkeyDLuffy
08-21-2016, 03:42 PM
My HarappaWorld Results

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 38.99
2 S-Indian 30.30
3 Caucasian 14.75
4 NE-Euro 10.50
5 Siberian 2.66
6 SE-Asian 1.22
7 SW-Asian 1.20


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 punjabi-khatri @ 3.792929
2 kashmiri-pandit @ 4.409097
3 pushtikar-brahmin @ 4.675718
4 kashmiri @ 4.690756
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim @ 5.234927
6 sindhi @ 5.471786
7 punjabi @ 5.923509
8 punjabi-jatt-sikh @ 6.380467
9 punjabi-brahmin @ 6.488206
10 singapore-indian-c @ 7.299213
11 pathan @ 7.951433
12 kashmiri-pahari @ 7.992730
13 gujarati-muslim @ 8.271935
14 rajasthani-brahmin @ 8.383976
15 punjabi-arain @ 8.439070
16 punjabi-ramgarhia @ 8.527472
17 up-muslim @ 8.990481
18 bhatia @ 9.644446
19 nepali @ 10.314409
20 sindhi @ 10.541694

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% punjabi-khatri +50% pushtikar-brahmin @ 3.181605


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% kashmiri-pandit +25% pathan +25% pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.673719


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 kalash + pathan + pathan + sourastrian @ 2.454459
2 kalash + pathan + pathan + srivastava @ 2.536242
3 bhatia + gujarati-a + kerala-brahmin + urkarah @ 2.549126
4 bihari-muslim + kalash + kalash + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.567888
5 bhatia + gujarati-a + kerala-brahmin + urkarah @ 2.596873
6 bihari-muslim + kalash + pathan + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.600366
7 gujarati-a + punjabi-arain + punjabi-ramgarhia + urkarah @ 2.612786
8 gujarati-a + punjabi-ramgarhia + punjabi-ramgarhia + urkarah @ 2.623632
9 kalash + kashmiri-pandit + pushtikar-brahmin + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.649276
10 bhatia + gujarati-a + meghawal + urkarah @ 2.660105
11 gujarati-a + punjabi-ramgarhia + punjabi-ramgarhia + urkarah @ 2.661638
12 kalash + punjabi-brahmin + pushtikar-brahmin + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.662057
13 kashmiri-pandit + kashmiri-pandit + pathan + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.673719
14 kalash + kalash + pathan + sourastrian @ 2.676890
15 bhatia + gujarati-a + meghawal + urkarah @ 2.689809
16 bhatia + gujarati-patel + kerala-brahmin + urkarah @ 2.691285
17 bhatia + gujarati-a + gujarati-b + urkarah @ 2.693520
18 gujarati-a + punjabi-arain + punjabi-ramgarhia + urkarah @ 2.698428
19 bhatia + gujarati-a + gujarati-b + urkarah @ 2.708445
20 kalash + kalash + karnataka-brahmin + pushtikar-brahmin @ 2.714304

What's your ethnicity?

Hanna
08-21-2016, 04:19 PM
I don't think I shared my results here

Me

1 Caucasian 53.82
2 Baloch 16.94
3 Mediterranean 8.88
4 SW-Asian 8.04
5 NE-Euro 6.12
6 Siberian 3.31
7 NE-Asian 2.47
8 Papuan 0.4
9 E-African 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

1 armenian (behar) 5.36
2 armenian (yunusbayev) 7.1
3 turk (behar) 7.24
4 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 8.54
5 azeri (harappa) 8.91
6 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 9.17
7 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 10.12
8 armenian (harappa) 10.26
9 turkish (harappa) 10.45
10 georgian (harappa) 11.13
11 assyrian (harappa) 11.23
12 georgia-jew (behar) 11.94
13 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 13.03
14 kurd (yunusbayev) 13.19
15 balkar (yunusbayev) 13.24
16 north-ossetian (yunusbayev) 13.32
17 kumyk (yunusbayev) 13.57
18 adygei (hgdp) 13.97
19 iranian-jew (behar) 15.21
20 kurd (xing) 15.22

My aunt

1 Caucasian 52.92
2 Baloch 20.56
3 SW-Asian 11.84
4 Mediterranean 8.9
5 NE-Euro 3.44
6 Siberian 0.65
7 NE-Asian 0.53
8 American 0.35
9 S-Indian 0.28
10 Papuan 0.27
11 Beringian 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

1 armenian (yunusbayev) 4.44
2 armenian (behar) 5.53
3 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 6.06
4 assyrian (harappa) 6.24
5 armenian (harappa) 7.28
6 georgia-jew (behar) 8.44
7 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 8.8
8 azeri (harappa) 9.27
9 kurd (yunusbayev) 9.48
10 turk (behar) 9.54
11 turkish (harappa) 9.73
12 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 10.21
13 iranian-jew (behar) 10.6
14 kurd (xing) 11.23
15 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 11.28
16 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 11.64
17 georgian (harappa) 12.14
18 kurd (harappa) 12.18
19 iraq-jew (behar) 12.28
20 lebanese-druze (haber) 13.18

Hanna
08-21-2016, 04:26 PM
My Harappa results:

1 Caucasian 27.24
2 NE-Euro 25.26
3 Mediterranean 24.62
4 Baloch 10.56
5 SW-Asian 9.49
6 Beringian 1.56
7 Papuan 0.65
8 E-African 0.31
9 S-Indian 0.22
10 NE-Asian 0.1

My Father's Harappa results

1 Caucasian 32.25
2 NE-Euro 19.23
3 Baloch 18.1
4 Mediterranean 16.28
5 SW-Asian 9.06
6 Beringian 1.9
7 Siberian 1.03
8 NE-Asian 1.01
9 S-Indian 0.62
10 E-African 0.27
11 San 0.17
12 American 0.07

My Mother's Harappa results

1 Mediterranean 32.25
2 NE-Euro 29.2
3 Caucasian 21
4 SW-Asian 8.46
5 Baloch 6.77
6 Papuan 0.87
7 E-African 0.61
8 W-African 0.37
9 American 0.27
10 SE-Asian 0.13
11 S-Indian 0.07

Could you share all the oracles as well?

Mofrad
08-22-2016, 02:34 AM
Could you share all the oracles as well?

My father:

1 Caucasian 32.25
2 NE-Euro 19.23
3 Baloch 18.1
4 Mediterranean 16.28
5 SW-Asian 9.06
6 Beringian 1.9
7 Siberian 1.03
8 NE-Asian 1.01
9 S-Indian 0.62
10 E-African 0.27
11 San 0.17
12 American 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 11.02
2 ashkenazi (harappa) 14.47
3 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 14.51
4 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 15.31
5 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 16.55
6 stalskoe (xing) 16.57
7 turkish (harappa) 17.01
8 turk (behar) 17.48
9 azeri (harappa) 18.74
10 turkmen (yunusbayev) 18.95
11 sephardic-jew (behar) 19.02
12 tuscan (1000genomes) 19.54
13 nogai (yunusbayev) 19.57
14 kurd (harappa) 19.81
15 tuscan (hgdp) 19.91
16 kumyk (yunusbayev) 20.04
17 iranian (harappa) 20.12
18 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 20.48
19 tuscan (hapmap) 20.51
20 armenian (harappa) 20.74

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.9% turkish (harappa) + 27.1% orcadian (hgdp) @ 2.64
2 71.9% turkish (harappa) + 28.1% british (1000genomes) @ 2.7
3 62.9% kurd (yunusbayev) + 37.1% french (hgdp) @ 2.76
4 71.3% turkish (harappa) + 28.7% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 2.81
5 68.8% armenian (harappa) + 31.2% orcadian (hgdp) @ 3.1
6 71.3% turkish (harappa) + 28.7% n-european (xing) @ 3.21
7 62.1% kurd (xing) + 37.9% french (hgdp) @ 3.26
8 51.6% kurd (harappa) + 48.4% romanian-a (behar) @ 3.44
9 67.8% armenian (harappa) + 32.2% british (1000genomes) @ 3.46
10 65% kurd (harappa) + 35% french (hgdp) @ 3.5
11 67% armenian (harappa) + 33% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 3.54
12 50.1% romanian-a (behar) + 49.9% iranian (behar) @ 3.66
13 63.3% assyrian (harappa) + 36.7% orcadian (hgdp) @ 3.67
14 66.3% azeri (harappa) + 33.7% french (hgdp) @ 3.7
15 68.5% turkish (harappa) + 31.5% french (hgdp) @ 3.76
16 67% armenian (harappa) + 33% n-european (xing) @ 3.77
17 66.2% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 33.8% british (1000genomes) @ 3.78
18 65.5% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 34.5% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 3.83
19 50.9% bulgarian (yunusbayev) + 49.1% iranian (behar) @ 3.89
20 62.2% assyrian (harappa) + 37.8% british (1000genomes) @ 3.92

My Mother:

1 Mediterranean 32.25
2 NE-Euro 29.2
3 Caucasian 21
4 SW-Asian 8.46
5 Baloch 6.77
6 Papuan 0.87
7 E-African 0.61
8 W-African 0.37
9 American 0.27
10 SE-Asian 0.13
11 S-Indian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 italian (hgdp) 5.78
2 tuscan (hapmap) 8.22
3 tuscan (hgdp) 8.5
4 tuscan (1000genomes) 8.89
5 romanian-a (behar) 11.87
6 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 12.89
7 spaniard (behar) 14.93
8 spaniard (1000genomes) 15.82
9 french (hgdp) 17.25
10 ashkenazi (harappa) 17.25
11 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 19.74
12 hungarian (behar) 20.97
13 slovenian (xing) 22.86
14 puerto-rican (1000genomes) 23.46
15 morocco-jew (behar) 24.61
16 utahn-white (1000genomes) 25.28
17 sephardic-jew (behar) 25.32
18 n-european (xing) 25.92
19 british (1000genomes) 26.63
20 utahn-white (hapmap) 26.72

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.5% french (hgdp) + 40.5% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 1.47
2 53.4% french (hgdp) + 46.6% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 2.07
3 58.9% french (hgdp) + 41.1% morocco-jew (behar) @ 2.5
4 50% french (hgdp) + 50% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 2.81
5 67.8% french (hgdp) + 32.2% cypriot (behar) @ 2.94
6 77.9% tuscan (1000genomes) + 22.1% orcadian (hgdp) @ 3.3
7 72.7% french (hgdp) + 27.3% samaritian (behar) @ 3.3
8 67.3% tuscan (1000genomes) + 32.7% french (hgdp) @ 3.37
9 76.3% tuscan (1000genomes) + 23.7% british (1000genomes) @ 3.38
10 92.3% italian (hgdp) + 7.7% qatari (henn2012) @ 3.39
11 51.3% sephardic-jew (behar) + 48.7% british (1000genomes) @ 3.49
12 75.4% tuscan (1000genomes) + 24.6% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 3.51
13 72% french (hgdp) + 28% lebanese-christian (haber) @ 3.6
14 50.7% morocco-jew (behar) + 49.3% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 3.67
15 50% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 50% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 3.67
16 77.8% tuscan (hapmap) + 22.2% n-european (xing) @ 3.73
17 91.2% italian (hgdp) + 8.8% yemenese (behar) @ 3.77
18 76.1% tuscan (1000genomes) + 23.9% n-european (xing) @ 3.78
19 52% morocco-jew (behar) + 48% british (1000genomes) @ 3.82
20 93.2% italian (hgdp) + 6.8% saudi (behar) @ 3.85

Hanna
08-22-2016, 11:59 AM
My father:

1 Caucasian 32.25
2 NE-Euro 19.23
3 Baloch 18.1
4 Mediterranean 16.28
5 SW-Asian 9.06
6 Beringian 1.9
7 Siberian 1.03
8 NE-Asian 1.01
9 S-Indian 0.62
10 E-African 0.27
11 San 0.17
12 American 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 11.02
2 ashkenazi (harappa) 14.47
3 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 14.51
4 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 15.31
5 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 16.55
6 stalskoe (xing) 16.57
7 turkish (harappa) 17.01
8 turk (behar) 17.48
9 azeri (harappa) 18.74
10 turkmen (yunusbayev) 18.95
11 sephardic-jew (behar) 19.02
12 tuscan (1000genomes) 19.54
13 nogai (yunusbayev) 19.57
14 kurd (harappa) 19.81
15 tuscan (hgdp) 19.91
16 kumyk (yunusbayev) 20.04
17 iranian (harappa) 20.12
18 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 20.48
19 tuscan (hapmap) 20.51
20 armenian (harappa) 20.74

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.9% turkish (harappa) + 27.1% orcadian (hgdp) @ 2.64
2 71.9% turkish (harappa) + 28.1% british (1000genomes) @ 2.7
3 62.9% kurd (yunusbayev) + 37.1% french (hgdp) @ 2.76
4 71.3% turkish (harappa) + 28.7% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 2.81
5 68.8% armenian (harappa) + 31.2% orcadian (hgdp) @ 3.1
6 71.3% turkish (harappa) + 28.7% n-european (xing) @ 3.21
7 62.1% kurd (xing) + 37.9% french (hgdp) @ 3.26
8 51.6% kurd (harappa) + 48.4% romanian-a (behar) @ 3.44
9 67.8% armenian (harappa) + 32.2% british (1000genomes) @ 3.46
10 65% kurd (harappa) + 35% french (hgdp) @ 3.5
11 67% armenian (harappa) + 33% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 3.54
12 50.1% romanian-a (behar) + 49.9% iranian (behar) @ 3.66
13 63.3% assyrian (harappa) + 36.7% orcadian (hgdp) @ 3.67
14 66.3% azeri (harappa) + 33.7% french (hgdp) @ 3.7
15 68.5% turkish (harappa) + 31.5% french (hgdp) @ 3.76
16 67% armenian (harappa) + 33% n-european (xing) @ 3.77
17 66.2% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 33.8% british (1000genomes) @ 3.78
18 65.5% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 34.5% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 3.83
19 50.9% bulgarian (yunusbayev) + 49.1% iranian (behar) @ 3.89
20 62.2% assyrian (harappa) + 37.8% british (1000genomes) @ 3.92

Where is your dad from?

Mofrad
08-25-2016, 02:54 AM
Where is your dad from?

His father was born in Iran (half Turkmenistan & Half Azeri) and his mother mixed American (Italian/French/Polish)

Mofrad
08-25-2016, 02:56 AM
His father was born in Iran (half Turkmenistan & Half Azeri) and his mother mixed American (Italian/French/Polish)