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Paul333
10-23-2017, 08:05 PM
Recent mtDNA result H13c, New to DNA looking for information about this specific subclade.

Saetro
10-23-2017, 11:19 PM
One useful site is http://haplogroup.org/
Search on "H1c3" and see where it takes you.
Also at least the next upstream.
This site has good references and is reasonably up to date.

Wikipedia often has something. Just make sure you are looking at mtDNA haplogroup H (and not a Y haplogroup - although you would be one person who would already know the difference).
Also some good background stuff on H1 at Eupedia https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_H_mtDNA.shtml

As H1c3 has been further subdivided, it looks as if you have probably received your haplogroup assignment as a bonus with an autosomal test.
Should you wish to go for further detail - to go further along the tree towards the present - complete mitochondrial testing would be required.
I have enjoyed what I have done with that, but it is not for everybody, and matches there are often centuries back.
Most people find far more rewards from their autosomal.

Paul333
10-24-2017, 04:35 PM
Thanks for the information Seatro,
I recently got my results through living DNA, as you say with a autosomal test.

Stephen1986
10-24-2017, 08:00 PM
Mine is H1c3 as well, from the Kendal area, although I've not done a lot of testing for my mtDNA.

Paul333
10-24-2017, 09:09 PM
Hello Stephen,
I have seen a few H1c3 references to Sweden, Germany etc. and the Blatterhohle cave in Hagen, Germany ( BLA 10* )has matched all seven of my positive SNPs, and that is from 3418+-63yrs BC, so I may have a direct link/connection there.

Solothurn
04-22-2018, 04:21 AM
H1c3 here too :)

3,000 years old and unfortunately there are also subclades: H1c3a and H1c3b. LivingDNA did not test for these.

I am H1c3b dated 1,000 years ago in Scandinavia apparently :)

http://thecid.com/mtdnatree/individuals.html



Recent mtDNA result H13c, New to DNA looking for information about this specific subclade.

Paul333
04-22-2018, 02:09 PM
Recent mtDNA result H13c, New to DNA looking for information about this specific subclade.

Just to remove some confusion I may have created, my mtdna is H1c3, and not 'H13c' as I wrongly stated. , thanks Solothurn for your response which made me aware. It was a LivingDna result but Im not sure who, or how I can find out if I am able to gain a further subclade, or if one actually exists for me.

Solothurn
04-23-2018, 11:52 AM
Duplication :(

Solothurn
04-23-2018, 12:01 PM
I suspect that you are H1c3a or h1c3b :)

I forgot to mention I tested the full sequence at FTDNA and unfortunately I think they determine my b with HVR1.

I think you have some of the same as me:
CODING REGION DIFFERENCES FROM rCRS
750G 1438G 3010A 4769G 8473C 8860G 15326G.

http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/h1c_genbank_sequences.htm


I don't think you would gain a great deal by spending $$$ to find out but there is a sale on :)

Paul333
04-23-2018, 03:45 PM
Thanks for the reply, I received only seven reference's, 257G 263G 477C 1438G 3010A 4769G 8860G. They all match yours. Im thinking of getting further testing but not sure if it will give me anything further.

Solothurn
04-23-2018, 11:16 PM
Are you on Gedmatch Genesis?

IMHO the $89 test would give you basic HVR1 and HVR2 but no extra Coding Region Markers (FMS needed for this).

T16189C T16362C from HVR1 Indicate H1c3b but I cannot get any more recent than 1,000 years ago due to not having any extra noteworthy mutations. Some are lucky and have extra so are in potential subclades :)

Paul333
04-24-2018, 11:50 AM
I'm not on any Gedmatch Genesis,etc ,only living Dna, this Dna/Genetics is all new to me, and I'm still trying to understand,and learn from it. Its certianly got me hooked. Things are moving fast, and I do intend to get further testing of both my Y and mtdna but confused as to which will be best for further information at the moment. Living DNA state they will update my results as and when and hopefully they might inform me further. Not sure wether there is any further information regarding my H1c3 results available, other than the seven references shown, will wait and see what I can do.

Solothurn
04-24-2018, 01:30 PM
Genesis is free to join and will give you matches from different platforms. I ask as my paternal DNA is mainly NE England :)

Paul333
04-24-2018, 02:31 PM
Genesis is free to join and will give you matches from different platforms. I ask as my paternal DNA is mainly NE England :)

I live in the North East of England, but havent a clue where I originated from through my Fatherline Y-H2, or Motherline mtdna H1c3...LOL. Genetically Living DNA inform me Family 'Cautious' I'm 100% British, mostly related with Northumbrian 54.3% and 29.7% South East England,with 4.4% Orkney, and 3.2% Cornwall, the rest 8.3% unasigned. Living DNA also confirm 100% European, but no regions just Europe Overall. They then inform and supply me with a totally differing and confusing set of information indicating my origins are in India etc, which seems impossible, as they then say I might of originated as one of the first paternal Europeans, thousands of years ago, possibly originating 45,000 years ago ??. I am totally confused about this. They also say my mtdna route of origin is to the Baltic around Eastern Finnland, etc, but then inform me about North Africa roots indicating Tuaregs have up to 61% of my same H1 mtdna haplogroup but I doubt they have any mtdna H1c3, which is my true mtdna Haplogroup. Living DNA state they apologised they mixed things up and are currently in the process of replacing all our Fatherline and Motherline descriptions. (as of 9th Oct 2017 ). So I hope it will not be too long for them to unconfuse me, and give me a realistic and accurate origin.

Solothurn
04-25-2018, 02:08 PM
I forgot to say Genesis will give you autosomal matches. There are some excellent heritage calculators on there. They will all give differing results though :)

Paul333
04-25-2018, 04:41 PM
I forgot to say Genesis will give you autosomal matches. There are some excellent heritage calculators on there. They will all give differing results though :)

Thanks I'll look into it

boilermeschew827
11-16-2019, 07:10 PM
Interesting to see where H1c3 has spread out. I don’t know much beyond what LivingDNA and 23andMe confirmed as H1c3, but I did Jim Slick tool and our best match is H1c3b.

My maternal grandmother is French, her direct maternal line is also from north-central France.

Solothurn
02-26-2020, 11:02 AM
From National Genographic Project:

Branch: H1c
Age: To Be Determined
Location of Origin: Europe
Today, this lineage is present more often in northwestern Europe than in southern Europe. It is about 5 percent of maternal lineages in Norway and Sweden. It is about 4 percent of the population of Wales. Elsewhere in Europe, it is around 2 percent of the population. Strikingly, it is about 5 percent of maternal lineages in Lebanon, and makes up around 7 percent of the population of Moldova.

H1c3b is believed to have originated in Scandinavia c1,000 years BP. Most of my matches on FTDNA are of Scandinavian origin!

Change page size to 2,500 to see H1c/H1c3b
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/mtDNA_H1?iframe=mtresults




Interesting to see where H1c3 has spread out. I don’t know much beyond what LivingDNA and 23andMe confirmed as H1c3, but I did Jim Slick tool and our best match is H1c3b.

My maternal grandmother is French, her direct maternal line is also from north-central France.

Paul333
02-26-2020, 06:48 PM
From National Genographic Project:

Branch: H1c
Age: To Be Determined
Location of Origin: Europe
Today, this lineage is present more often in northwestern Europe than in southern Europe. It is about 5 percent of maternal lineages in Norway and Sweden. It is about 4 percent of the population of Wales. Elsewhere in Europe, it is around 2 percent of the population. Strikingly, it is about 5 percent of maternal lineages in Lebanon, and makes up around 7 percent of the population of Moldova.

H1c3b is believed to have originated in Scandinavia c1,000 years BP. Most of my matches on FTDNA are of Scandinavian origin!

Change page size to 2,500 to see H1c/H1c3b
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/mtDNA_H1?iframe=mtresults

Thanks for the information Solothurn.
Looking today on the, YFull, H1c3, Mtree, most matches are showing from Denmark for H1c3, and if the splits/subclades are showing an origin of c1000 years ago, this would indicate Viking period Scandinavian origins, might be a shieldmaiden ..lol.

On my, 23 & Me reports, for 'recent ancestors' it confirms Scandinavian Ancestry, from 1810 to 1690, not sure if this is connected with my Mdna or Ydna though.

Solothurn
02-28-2020, 12:42 PM
Thanks Paul. It would have been brilliant to have an extra/unusual marker to offer a more recent common ancestor but sadly not. 1,000 years is the minimum ☹️

Paul333
02-28-2020, 02:39 PM
Thanks Paul. It would have been brilliant to have an extra/unusual marker to offer a more recent common ancestor but sadly not. 1,000 years is the minimum ☹️

Agree, Fingers crossed for further developments.

Some time ago the Yfull Mtree, changed then reverted back, but when it changed it gave a lot of confusing information. On H1c3, it changed to H-c1m2c23d11e, and then also H1c32, before changing back, not sure what these referred to, but they might contain clues, about our Mtdna history, but for now we will just have to wait.

On the H1c3 YFull Mtree, there is only one ancient reference todate, KF523403.1. I looked it up, and I think it was referring to the Blatterhohle reference,BLA-10*, and that is given a date 3418+- 63yrs BC. ( Referenced as 'Neolithic Farmers' Germany, Hagen, North Rhine-Westphalia, on the NCBI Resources )

Not much help yet, but we will just have to keep waiting for more ancient results to be found and added.

Intresting, on the SNP Tracker for H1c3, it is shown as entering the Baltic sea area passing through the area of the Tollense Battlefield, during the Bronze age.

I wonder, was H1c3 migrating into the Baltic Scandinavia area's or moving from these area's? during this period, possibly using an old amber or bronze ancient trade route.

Luso
06-21-2020, 01:25 AM
H1c3 here too :)

Solothurn
06-21-2020, 11:25 AM
Greetings cousin :beerchug:

Do you know if you are H1c3a, H1c3b or H1c3*?



H1c3 here too :)

Luso
06-21-2020, 01:55 PM
Greetings cousin :beerchug:

Do you know if you are H1c3a, H1c3b or H1c3*?

Greetings :biggrin1:. I have no idea. Any way to check? I’m super new to haplogroups

Paul333
06-21-2020, 02:29 PM
Greetings :biggrin1:. I have no idea. Any way to check? I’m super new to haplogroups

Hello Iberians, Check the Y Full MTree, 'yfull.com/mtree/H1c3/' against your SNPs if you have them. it could give you a further reference and date, there is a portugese reference on that branch.

regards Paul.

Solothurn
06-21-2020, 03:33 PM
Who have you tested your mtdna with Iberians?


Greetings :biggrin1:. I have no idea. Any way to check? I’m super new to haplogroups

Luso
06-21-2020, 05:58 PM
Who have you tested your mtdna with Iberians?

I haven’t done a test for it but my moms maternal is H1c3 from 23andMe

Solothurn
06-22-2020, 09:36 AM
I only got H1c at 23andMe. Some markers aren’t included or can show as no calls. It was familytreedna.com that gave me H1c3b, only with full mt testing though.

You could try uploading your mom’s 23 data to James Lick’s Hapmap facility to see if it detects anything hidden:

https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

The data will need to be unzipped to a txt file before uploading.


I haven’t done a test for it but my moms maternal is H1c3 from 23andMe

Paul333
06-22-2020, 05:19 PM
I only got H1c at 23andMe. Some markers aren’t included or can show as no calls. It was familytreedna.com that gave me H1c3b, only with full mt testing though.

You could try uploading your mom’s 23 data to James Lick’s Hapmap facility to see if it detects anything hidden:

https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

The data will need to be unzipped to a txt file before uploading.



I got my MTDNA haplogroup confirmed as MTDNA H1c3 from both 'Living Dna' and '23 & Me', but I am not able to move to any further downstream subclade as yet.

The Raw Data from 23 & me, gives a lot more information regarding identifying each SNP through identifying its rs number, its chromosome location, its position reference number, and its actual genotype.

I downloaded my 23 & me raw data, into a word font format, onto my computor. The raw data from 23 & Me enables me to compare information against reference data bases, to identify whether I am a positive or negative match, to SNPs and further subclades.

You are then able to check each YFull Mtree branch, H1c3 subclade reference, for instance H1c3 is identified by two reference positions, 257 with genotype G, and 8473 with genotype C, ie both A257G, and *T8473C .

My living DNA only gave me seven reference SNPs, one of which was 257G, and 8473C was not one given to me by Living DNA.

On looking through my 23 & Me 'Raw Data' information, it did not show 257G, but it did have 8473, and it confirmed my genometype for 8473 as C, ie confirming the required matches to both references on the Yfull Mtree ( A257G and *T8473C ), for Subclade H1c3., which had also been confirmed by both 23 & Me, and living DNA.

It will also allow you to compare new information as it becomes available, and its updatable by 23 & me.

boilermeschew827
06-22-2020, 10:41 PM
I haven’t done a test for it but my moms maternal is H1c3 from 23andMe

Do you anything about your direct maternal line?

Solothurn
06-23-2020, 09:48 AM
Unfortunately on 23andMe I am H1c. On LivingDNA I am H1c3. Only FTDNA gave me the extra b.

I did think LivingDNA would at least offer the deeper analysis, especially as their autosomal is supposedly back 10 generations.

FTDNA:











LivingDNA:

257G
263G
477C
1438G
3010A
4769G
8860G

23andMe:

Paul333
06-23-2020, 10:39 AM
Unfortunately on 23andMe I am H1c. On LivingDNA I am H1c3. Only FTDNA gave me the extra b.

I did think LivingDNA would at least offer the deeper analysis, especially as their autosomal is supposedly back 10 generations.

LivingDNA:

257G
263G
477C
1438G
3010A
4769G
8860G

23andMe:

I have the exact same seven references from Living Dna. 23 & Me, Raw Data, also confirmed my match with the Y Full MTree Subclade H1c3 with the other additional identifying reference *T8473C.

There is a lot more information within the 23 & me raw data, but I have no match to any further subclade beyond H1c3 yet.

Some time ago Y Full Mtree changed the information with more detailed references which seemed to of gave me H1c3b, the changes at the time were from H1c3 to H-c1m2c23d11e, and H1c32, but then it reverted back to H1c3, again.

Solothurn
06-23-2020, 11:02 AM
On 23 I have T8473C Not determined. This is probably why I only get H1c.

There are three possible H1c3 subclades on FTDNA but your deep SNPs are probably hidden ☹️

H1c3* - 12966T Predictive new sub branch

H1c3* - 13215C 16186T Predictive new sub branch

H1c3* - 3278C Predictive new sub branch



I have the exact same seven references from Living Dna. 23 & Me, Raw Data, also confirmed my match with the Y Full MTree Subclade H1c3 with the other additional identifying reference *T8473C.

There is a lot more information within the 23 & me raw data, but I have no match to any further subclade beyond H1c3 yet.

Some time ago Y Full Mtree changed the information with more detailed references which seemed to of gave me H1c3b, the changes at the time were from H1c3 to H-c1m2c23d11e, and H1c32, but then it reverted back to H1c3, again.

Paul333
06-23-2020, 11:22 AM
On 23 I have T8473C Not determined. This is probably why I only get H1c.

There are three possible H1c3 subclades on FTDNA but your deep SNPs are probably hidden ☹️

H1c3* - 12966T Predictive new sub branch

H1c3* - 13215C 16186T Predictive new sub branch

H1c3* - 3278C Predictive new sub branch

Checked them, and the only one I have is,13215'T', rather than 'C', the others are missing.

The only other I have is with your FTDNA entries is 16362C, I have a 'T' 16362T, all the others are missing.

Looked at those references,and another on YFull Mtree they represent the following new subclades-
T8504C=H1c3c
C12966T=H1c3d
T3278C=H1c3e
T13215C=H1c3f

I have no match to these.

Solothurn
06-24-2020, 08:43 AM
Thanks for the update on the new clades Paul :beerchug:

boilermeschew827
10-17-2020, 02:15 PM
Geneanet is offering haplogroups now, turns out my maternal grandma and I seem to be all but confirmed H1c3b after using that James Lick tool, from my previous post.

I always thought it made sense since my grandma is French and H1 is frequent around the Atlantic side of Iberia and France. After looking at yFull, I see an overwhelming amount of Dane samples on H1c3 - which confirms the suspected Scandinavian origin mentioned on this thread.

My question, maybe more rhetorical - did this line come south when? I think I read H1c3b is 2000 years old or so.

It’s all very fascinating. I think I might invest in FTDNA’s mtDNA test during the holidays to see if I can learn more.

Solothurn
10-19-2020, 08:12 AM
Hi H1c3b cousin

I looked at the H1 match/map page here: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/mtDNA_H1?iframe=mtresults

Maybe change the page view to 2500 to see H1c3b :behindsofa:

only match I have with French ancestry is Kit IN43578 albeit GD of 3. Their ancestor Catherine BUGARET. I don’t know where in France.

:)




Geneanet is offering haplogroups now, turns out my maternal grandma and I seem to be all but confirmed H1c3b after using that James Lick tool, from my previous post.

I always thought it made sense since my grandma is French and H1 is frequent around the Atlantic side of Iberia and France. After looking at yFull, I see an overwhelming amount of Dane samples on H1c3 - which confirms the suspected Scandinavian origin mentioned on this thread.

My question, maybe more rhetorical - did this line come south when? I think I read H1c3b is 2000 years old or so.

It’s all very fascinating. I think I might invest in FTDNA’s mtDNA test during the holidays to see if I can learn more.

Solothurn
10-19-2020, 10:33 AM
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bugaret-2

Solothurn
10-19-2020, 10:47 AM
Villefranche Du Queyran,Gascony, France (possibly)

Paul333
10-19-2020, 02:34 PM
Hi H1c3b cousin

I looked at the H1 match/map page here: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/mtDNA_H1?iframe=mtresults

Maybe change the page view to 2500 to see H1c3b :behindsofa:

only match I have with French ancestry is Kit IN43578 albeit GD of 3. Their ancestor Catherine BUGARET. I don’t know where in France.

:)

I have 16223C, on my MTDNA raw data from 23 & Me. There is an entry 833203 on the list for ' Martha Merry, born,England 1805 who is also H1c3b, and has,T16223C.

Solothurn
10-19-2020, 04:31 PM
I think T16223C is connected to H1 as think all have it on the project results page :(


I have 16223C, on my MTDNA raw data from 23 & Me. There is an entry 833203 on the list for ' Martha Merry, born,England 1805 who is H1c3b, and has,T16223C.

I also have a 'Merry' born England,in the 1880s in my direct maternal line of H1c3, would having 16223C take me further down the branch to H1c3b ??.

My last known provern paper direct maternal line, is Margaret Ann Thompson, Born Spittal, Northumberland 27th 10th 1827.

Paul333
10-19-2020, 05:00 PM
Thanks Solothurn
I think you are right, although H1 is defined by G3010A, all the downstreams on the FT project seem to have 16223C. ..... back to the search....

boilermeschew827
12-15-2020, 10:06 PM
Hi H1c3b cousin

I looked at the H1 match/map page here: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/mtDNA_H1?iframe=mtresults

Maybe change the page view to 2500 to see H1c3b :behindsofa:

only match I have with French ancestry is Kit IN43578 albeit GD of 3. Their ancestor Catherine BUGARET. I don’t know where in France.

:)

Sorry I just returned to this thread and didn't realize the quote!

Since posting in October, I found a DNA match on MyHeritage who's MRCA is my grandma's maternal great grandma, Louise Delaplaine born in Bagneux in 1863 (same village as my grandma). My grandma matches this person at ~137 cMs and I match them at ~35 cMs.

I took a look at the FTDNA link and it seems there is huge spread of H1c3b! From Finland to Canada and everywhere in between.

Luso
12-21-2020, 09:00 AM
Coming back to this thread. I'll check my moms FTDNA test to see if I can specify what type of h1c3 it is.


Hello Iberians, Check the Y Full MTree, 'yfull.com/mtree/H1c3/' against your SNPs if you have them. it could give you a further reference and date, there is a portugese reference on that branch.

regards Paul.

Thanks... completely forgot I asked this 6 months ago.


Who have you tested your mtdna with Iberians?

It was actually FTDNA that we found out she was H1c3, not 23andMe- my bad! I'll check if I can pinpoint her clade in a bit.

Luso
12-22-2020, 02:25 AM
Do you anything about your direct maternal line?

All I know is that she is from the most southern region of Portugal on the Atlantic.

Luso
12-22-2020, 02:27 AM
Update:

This is what I found...

Extra Mutations 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C
Missing Mutations C195T

Luso
12-22-2020, 02:28 AM
I think this means I am h1c3*? Can't find any snps. I think she'd have to do a big-y test for that.

mokordo
12-22-2020, 10:03 AM
I think this means I am h1c3*? Can't find any snps. I think she'd have to do a big-y test for that.

She cannot do any big Y test...

Luso
12-22-2020, 06:19 PM
She cannot do any big Y test...

Oh true, I mean the maternal test

Paul333
12-26-2020, 03:12 PM
Update:

This is what I found...

Extra Mutations 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C
Missing Mutations C195T

Have a look on Genbank-Ian Logan, He has H1c3 with 'T195C' .