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Xehanort
10-27-2017, 08:40 AM
Hi everyone,

I have been studying genetics for a while now, one thing has baffled me a lot when it comes to individual Kurds. There's this one Kurd_SE sample, and he clusters more closer with South Asians and Baloch, and not so much with Kurds from Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Syria etc. I was wondering, is he actually a Kurd or is he from Iraq, Syria, Iran, or Turkey? He's always been an outlier when it comes to Kurds, and I think he may be a Balochi from the Kurd tribe. He's very unlike other Kurds and more like Balochis. I have always wondered about this sample because it's very Indus Valley shifted, and it's a bit shocking really. Would anyone chime in about this? It's pretty interesting to me that some Kurds can resemble Balochis.

Xehanort

Xehanort
10-27-2017, 08:56 AM
For instance on K12 he scored 39% Steppe, that's not even indicative of Iranian populations in general. Could this Kurd be part Pakistani? I would love to get in contact with him, as it's interesting to see such a outlier in the Kurdish gene pool. Can anyone help, thanks?

Lupus82
10-27-2017, 09:00 AM
I think he is the member Kurd ( http://www.anthrogenica.com/member.php?2086-Kurd ) on this board.

Kurd_SE means Kurd South Eastern. If I recall correctly, his ancestors are from Iraqi Kurdistan.

Zoran
10-27-2017, 09:26 AM
Kurd_SE is Balochi I think

Kurd
10-27-2017, 03:00 PM
Hi everyone,

I have been studying genetics for a while now, one thing has baffled me a lot when it comes to individual Kurds. There's this one Kurd_SE sample, and he clusters more closer with South Asians and Baloch, and not so much with Kurds from Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Syria etc. I was wondering, is he actually a Kurd or is he from Iraq, Syria, Iran, or Turkey? He's always been an outlier when it comes to Kurds, and I think he may be a Balochi from the Kurd tribe. He's very unlike other Kurds and more like Balochis. I have always wondered about this sample because it's very Indus Valley shifted, and it's a bit shocking really. Would anyone chime in about this? It's pretty interesting to me that some Kurds can resemble Balochis.

Xehanort

I appreciate the interest but these types of questions have been answered before. I strongly recommend you go through the Kurdish Persian Pashto and Hindi sections, especially the Kurdish section because you will find plenty of resources to answer the question about the Kurd-Baloch common origins. I realize itís a little bit of an effort but itís well worth it

Xehanort
10-27-2017, 07:13 PM
Kurd_SE is Balochi I think

Thanks, that explains it!

Xehanort
10-27-2017, 07:16 PM
I appreciate the interest but these types of questions have been answered before. I strongly recommend you go through the Kurdish Persian Pashto and Hindi sections, especially the Kurdish section because you will find plenty of resources to answer the question about the Kurd-Baloch common origins. I realize it’s a little bit of an effort but it’s well worth it

OH, you're KURD_SE? Lol bro I never thought it was you, I thought it was someone else or a generic sampling of a Kurdish population. I just found out today when I saw Lupus' post. Thanks for clarifying, and I'll look into it. But it's interesting how there are Kurdish descendants among the Baloch. Did the Baloch assimilate Kurds in the past? I think it makes sense though, because I remember seeing Dilawar Khan in gene plaza, and was wondering why does the creator have a Pakistani name since you created it. I thought you collaborated with him and gave him your data to make the calculator and didn't think it was actually you lol. Well, good to hear!

Kurd
10-27-2017, 08:21 PM
OH, you're KURD_SE? Lol bro I never thought it was you, I thought it was someone else or a generic sampling of a Kurdish population. I just found out today when I saw Lupus' post. Thanks for clarifying, and I'll look into it. But it's interesting how there are Kurdish descendants among the Baloch. Did the Baloch assimilate Kurds in the past? I think it makes sense though, because I remember seeing Dilawar Khan in gene plaza, and was wondering why does the creator have a Pakistani name since you created it. I thought you collaborated with him and gave him your data to make the calculator and didn't think it was actually you lol. Well, good to hear!

Well, since the Kurds were a minority in Balochistan, many did form marriage alliances to strengthen their positions, unlike the 1.5 million Khorasani Kurds who did not mix as much. However, there are still pockets around Khash Taftan Iran and other areas who are less admixed. Then again you have the Baloch that left the Kurdistan area in W Iran a couple of thousand years ago, and picked up Indian admixture over the centuries in their present locations, and or maintained their Iran N levels a little better due to isolation.

check some of the better resources I have listed. There is also of course some not so scientific resources on the net such as this you can check out

http://www.balochhouse.com/2017/10/historical-relationship-between-kurd.html

https://iaoj.wordpress.com/2011/05/15/sindhis-of-kurdistan/


Khan is not exclusive to Pakistan. Kurds Afghans and others use it also.

I designed the calculator itself , they are hosting it.

Xehanort
10-27-2017, 08:34 PM
Well, since the Kurds were a minority in Balochistan, many did form marriage alliances to strengthen their positions, unlike the 1.5 million Khorasani Kurds who did not mix as much. However, there are still pockets around Khash Taftan Iran and other areas who are less admixed. Then again you have the Baloch that left the Kurdistan area in W Iran a couple of thousand years ago, and picked up Indian admixture over the centuries in their present locations, and or maintained their Iran N levels a little better due to isolation.

check some of the better resources I have listed. There is also of course some not so scientific resources on the net such as this you can check out

http://www.balochhouse.com/2017/10/historical-relationship-between-kurd.html

https://iaoj.wordpress.com/2011/05/15/sindhis-of-kurdistan/


Khan is not exclusive to Pakistan. Kurds Afghans and others use it also.

I designed the calculator itself , they are hosting it.

Alright, thanks. I know you designed it but just was wondering who Dilawar Khan was lol, but I guess now I know. And I certainly agree with you in that the Balochis do seem to have a Kurdish origin. I will say, however, that the Indian admixture likely came from much later. I remember reading that the Balochis assimilated captured Maratha slaves in the past. Perhaps that could explain the Indian admixture in Pakistani Kurds? Iranian Kurds seem to have much less South Asian influence.

Thanks for the links, and I thought it was since I have never stumbled upon Khans from Afghanistan or Iran (Pakistani Pashtuns do use Khan a lot though).

Also, thanks for your calculator, its been very helpful, however, I still think that more samples are needed to make it a bit more accurate for South Asians, but overall it's excellent. :)

Lupus82
10-27-2017, 10:43 PM
....

Are you Persian?

Xehanort
10-27-2017, 11:18 PM
Are you Persian?

No, Punjabi Gujjar.

Xehanort
10-27-2017, 11:28 PM
Okay everyone, here are my results from my AncestryDNA test's raw data:

ANCIENT FARMERS 39.6%
WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years) 0.0%
LEVANT (4000-8000 years) 5.5%
NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years) 22.8%
EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years) 11.3%

STEPPE CULTURES 34.5%
KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years) 21.7%
ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years) 6.6%
YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years) 6.2%

SOUTHEAST EURASIAN 17.5%

AFRICAN 3.9%
EAST AFRICAN (modern) 3.8%
WEST AFRICAN (modern) 0.0%

EASTERN NON AFRICANS (modern) 3.7%

WESTERN EUROPEAN & SCANDINAVIAN HUNTER GATHERERS (4000-5000 years) 0.8%


Compare that with my 23andMe V4 raw data:

STEPPE CULTURES 41.2%
KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years) 29.0%
ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years) 6.0%
YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years) 6.2%

ANCIENT FARMERS 37.3%
WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years) 0.0%
LEVANT (4000-8000 years) 5.6%
NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years) 20.6%
EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years) 11.1%

SOUTHEAST EURASIAN 14.6%

EASTERN NON AFRICANS (modern) 3.5%

AFRICAN3.3%
EAST AFRICAN (modern) 3.3%
WEST AFRICAN (modern) 0.0%

WESTERN EUROPEAN & SCANDINAVIAN HUNTER GATHERERS (4000-5000 years) 0.8%

Pretty identical I would say, but I do seem to have less Scythian in the AncestryDNA than the 23andME by quite a bit. I also seem to have picked up about 3% farmer in the AncestryDNA test, 3% Southeast Eurasian, and another 1% African. Overall I would say they're pretty similar. @Kurd Any thoughts on why my Scythian dipped and farmer increased?

Furthermore, my results still don't resemble that Gujjar posted by bol_nat, although they're a bit closer now.

Edit: Posted in the wrong thread, but if any one wants to chime in with their thoughts, they can, here's a link to the actual thread: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?12427-Punjabi-Gujjar-Results-K12-Ancient-Origins-(Gene-Plaza-Kurd)

Kurd
10-28-2017, 01:41 AM
Okay everyone, here are my results from my AncestryDNA test's raw data:

ANCIENT FARMERS 39.6%
WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years) 0.0%
LEVANT (4000-8000 years) 5.5%
NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years) 22.8%
EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years) 11.3%

STEPPE CULTURES 34.5%
KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years) 21.7%
ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years) 6.6%
YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years) 6.2%

SOUTHEAST EURASIAN 17.5%

AFRICAN 3.9%
EAST AFRICAN (modern) 3.8%
WEST AFRICAN (modern) 0.0%

EASTERN NON AFRICANS (modern) 3.7%

WESTERN EUROPEAN & SCANDINAVIAN HUNTER GATHERERS (4000-5000 years) 0.8%


Compare that with my 23andMe V4 raw data:

STEPPE CULTURES 41.2%
KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years) 29.0%
ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years) 6.0%
YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years) 6.2%

ANCIENT FARMERS 37.3%
WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years) 0.0%
LEVANT (4000-8000 years) 5.6%
NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years) 20.6%
EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years) 11.1%

SOUTHEAST EURASIAN 14.6%

EASTERN NON AFRICANS (modern) 3.5%

AFRICAN3.3%
EAST AFRICAN (modern) 3.3%
WEST AFRICAN (modern) 0.0%

WESTERN EUROPEAN & SCANDINAVIAN HUNTER GATHERERS (4000-5000 years) 0.8%

Pretty identical I would say, but I do seem to have less Scythian in the AncestryDNA than the 23andME by quite a bit. I also seem to have picked up about 3% farmer in the AncestryDNA test, 3% Southeast Eurasian, and another 1% African. Overall I would say they're pretty similar. @Kurd Any thoughts on why my Scythian dipped and farmer increased?

Furthermore, my results still don't resemble that Gujjar posted by bol_nat, although they're a bit closer now.

Edit: Posted in the wrong thread, but if any one wants to chime in with their thoughts, they can, here's a link to the actual thread: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?12427-Punjabi-Gujjar-Results-K12-Ancient-Origins-(Gene-Plaza-Kurd)

As mentioned before Your 23 results are more accurate because 23 overlaps my test on many more markers than Ancestry. Higher ANE is expected in many Gujjars because of their history

Xehanort
10-28-2017, 03:48 AM
Thanks for the reply, Kurd. Well put! Are you going to perhaps update the calculator in the near future if the IVC samples are released soon? I wouldn't mind paying another few dollars for it! :)

bmoney
10-28-2017, 04:36 AM
Well, since the Kurds were a minority in Balochistan, many did form marriage alliances to strengthen their positions, unlike the 1.5 million Khorasani Kurds who did not mix as much. However, there are still pockets around Khash Taftan Iran and other areas who are less admixed. Then again you have the Baloch that left the Kurdistan area in W Iran a couple of thousand years ago, and picked up Indian admixture over the centuries in their present locations, and or maintained their Iran N levels a little better due to isolation.

check some of the better resources I have listed. There is also of course some not so scientific resources on the net such as this you can check out

http://www.balochhouse.com/2017/10/historical-relationship-between-kurd.html

https://iaoj.wordpress.com/2011/05/15/sindhis-of-kurdistan/


Khan is not exclusive to Pakistan. Kurds Afghans and others use it also.

I designed the calculator itself , they are hosting it.

Whats your opinion on the origins of the Brahui?

do you think it is plausible that an earlier group of Kurds or Kurd like people brought the Balochi language (NW Iranian like Kurdish) to Gedrosia and Iranianized the Brahui, most of whom later became the Baloch except for isolated pockets that stayed Brahui?