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TigerMW
11-06-2017, 06:24 PM
R1b was found in the area of Iraq in low numbers amongst Turkmen, Arabs and Kurds but two groups had fairly significant frequencies of R1b:

Syriac - 30.23%
Yazidi - 20.79%

"A glimpse at the intricate mosaic of ethnicities from Mesopotamia: Paternal lineages of the Northern Iraqi Arabs, Kurds, Syriacs, Turkmens and Yazidis"
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0187408

GoldenHind
11-06-2017, 06:37 PM
R1b was found in the area of Iraq in low numbers amongst Turkmen, Arabs and Kurds but two groups had fairly significant frequencies of R1b:

Syriac - 30.23%
Yazidi - 20.79%

"A glimpse at the intricate mosaic of ethnicities from Mesopotamia: Paternal lineages of the Northern Iraqi Arabs, Kurds, Syriacs, Turkmens and Yazidis"
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0187408

Is there any indication of their subclade? Do we know if they are M269?

Gnid
11-06-2017, 06:40 PM
Where there found M269- carriers? If yes what clades and in what population?

ADW_1981
11-06-2017, 06:45 PM
M269- is found at low frequency among European and Middle Eastern groups. Most of these guys are probably M269+ and similar subclades to Assyrians and Armenians, but that covers a lot of branches and is just an educated guess.

Humanist
11-06-2017, 07:02 PM
R1b was found in the area of Iraq in low numbers amongst Turkmen, Arabs and Kurds but two groups had fairly significant frequencies of R1b:

Syriac - 30.23%
Yazidi - 20.79%

"A glimpse at the intricate mosaic of ethnicities from Mesopotamia: Paternal lineages of the Northern Iraqi Arabs, Kurds, Syriacs, Turkmens and Yazidis"
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0187408

Mike. With regard to the "Syriacs." Syriac is a collective term used by some to refer to Assyrians ("Nestorian") (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?615-Assyrian-Y-DNA-Distribution&p=74152&viewfull=1#post74152), Chaldeans (Catholic), and Aramaeans (Orthodox). Most of the R1b will presumably be of the Z2103 variety.

swid
11-06-2017, 07:08 PM
The samples were only tested for the 17 Yfiler STRs; they used the Athley and Nevgen predictors for their haplogroup assignments.

If anyone wants to take a stab at more precise haplogroup assignments, you'll want to open up Table S1 (https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0187408.s001).

ADW_1981
11-06-2017, 07:19 PM
The samples were only tested for the 17 Yfiler STRs; they used the Athley and Nevgen predictors for their haplogroup assignments.

If anyone wants to take a stab at more precise haplogroup assignments, you'll want to open up Table S1 (https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0187408.s001).

For the haplotypes that look R1b among the Yazidi samples, I see a lot of DYS392=14 which might be characteristic of L277 branch. Definitely would need a deeper look rather than just eyeballing 1 marker though.

Gnid
11-06-2017, 08:28 PM
M269- is found at low frequency among European and Middle Eastern groups. Most of these guys are probably M269+ and similar subclades to Assyrians and Armenians, but that covers a lot of branches and is just an educated guess.
Yes, I am actually interested in L389+ (, but still M269- not V88 or other clades). However Nevgen predicts these carriers wrong as belonging to haplogroup Q (Athey predictor predicts it correct).

ADW_1981
11-06-2017, 09:17 PM
Yes, I am actually interested in L389+ (, but still M269- not V88 or other clades). However Nevgen predicts these carriers wrong as belonging to haplogroup Q (Athey predictor predicts it correct).

I believe there is a group of Syriacs who are L389+ (xM269) in the Iraq project. Here again, it's probably a minority and M269+ will be the majority in all tested groups to date, with the exception of V88 which is a back migration to Africa.

The alleged "Albanian" cluster of L23->CTS9219 is also found in Iraqi populations, so I'd be curious on that one. I can't read Arabic, so I don't know their ethnic affiliation.

Skerdilaidas
11-07-2017, 06:22 AM
The alleged "Albanian" cluster of L23->CTS9219 is also found in Iraqi populations, so I'd be curious on that one. I can't read Arabic, so I don't know their ethnic affiliation.

Only few samples on the Iraqi Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Iraq?iframe=yresults) of such variety, so most likely of Balkan (Albanian) origin. Albanians were pretty active in the near east all the way to Egypt as mercenaries, merchants and even as statesmen during Ottoman empire.

Also sample Ar-M062 on this study looks like a typical CTS9219>BY611, an Arab this time.

Silesian
11-07-2017, 10:24 AM
Only few samples samples on the Iraqi Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Iraq?iframe=yresults) of such variety, so most likely of Balkan (Albanian) origin. Albanians were pretty active on the near east all the way to Egypt as mercenaries, merchants and statesmen during Ottoman empire.

Also sample Ar-M062 on this study looks like a typical CTS9219>BY611, an Arab this time.

Swedish R1b R-Y5592*sample tops R1b 9219> BY611 which is far downstream - Even Italian R-Y10789* R-Y30192* are placed below id:YF07084- Swedish R1b R-Y5592*sample

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y5592/

rafc
11-07-2017, 02:04 PM
Only few samples on the Iraqi Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Iraq?iframe=yresults) of such variety, so most likely of Balkan (Albanian) origin. Albanians were pretty active in the near east all the way to Egypt as mercenaries, merchants and even as statesmen during Ottoman empire.

Also sample Ar-M062 on this study looks like a typical CTS9219>BY611, an Arab this time.

I agree, we also have several V13 samples in Iraqis, Assyrians and Syriacs, that most likely have a balkan origin.

TigerMW
11-07-2017, 02:15 PM
Mike. With regard to the "Syriacs." Syriac is a collective term used by some to refer to Assyrians ("Nestorian") (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?615-Assyrian-Y-DNA-Distribution&p=74152&viewfull=1#post74152), Chaldeans (Catholic), and Aramaeans (Orthodox). Most of the R1b will presumably be of the Z2103 variety.

What migrations do we think brought R1b-Z2103 into the
Assyrians(Nestorian) ?
Chaldeans(Catholic) ?
Aramaeans(Orthodox) ?
Yazidis ?

rms2
11-07-2017, 02:34 PM
What migrations do we think brought R1b-Z2103 into the
Assyrians(Nestorian) ?
Chaldeans(Catholic) ?
Aramaeans(Orthodox) ?
Yazidis ?

Mitanni maybe?

19612

ADW_1981
11-07-2017, 02:45 PM
I formatted the haplotype spreadsheet and made it more readable for me and uncovered that these haplotypes are probably distantly related to N39156 in the Iraq project. If my prediction were true, all are R1b (xM269)

Sy-M-024
Sy-M-041
Sy-M-042
Sy-M-060
Sy-M-071
Sy-M-076
Sy-M-089

Skerdilaidas
11-09-2017, 03:51 AM
I agree, we also have several V13 samples in Iraqis, Assyrians and Syriacs, that most likely have a balkan origin.

Interesting, I have seen one L241 from Egypt so far who is actually a member here, but that's about it. What branches are they mostly? Syria has received a descent amount of Albanians throughout Ottoman Empire: Albanians in Syria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanians_in_Syria)

venustas
11-17-2017, 03:21 AM
like seriously I known for years that Syriacs (Assyrians) had more R1b than everyone else in the area like chill this is like old news http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?615-Assyrian-Y-DNA-Distribution. Its sad that ISIS wants to wipe out R1b rich groups in the near east. Even the group Assad (Alawite) is in has lots of R1b https://twitter.com/AramaicDNA/status/97668085649125376 so like all the groups with R1b are moderates and targeted for extermination by the radicals I know its a coincidence but its strange. Anyway I dont want to talk about politics just thought its weird that all the groups that isis/army of conquest/Syrian rebels hate the most in the near east have the most R1b.