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firemonkey
12-04-2017, 03:29 PM
On Yfull I am E-Z16664* . I have been informed this is a paragroup but don't really understand the distinction between paragroups and haplogroups .
Do paragroups eventually become haplogroups?

Megalophias
12-04-2017, 04:55 PM
A Y haplogroup contains *all* the paternal-line descendants of a particular man, the most recent common ancestor of the haplogroup. So E-Z16664 is a haplogroup, and E-Y30987 is also a haplogroup. E-Z16664* is *not* a haplogroup, because it contains only *some* of the descendants of Z16664 MRCA, namely the ones who aren't Y30897. A paragroup is a haplogroup with some parts excluded - typically meaning that established or tested branches are excluded and unknown branches are grouped together to form the paragroup.

Usually after further research new branches will be established and paragroup members will end up being grouped into new haplogroups under the parent haplogroup. Not that the paragroup itself becomes a haplogroup, but that former paragroup *members* are now part of a known branch, so are referred to as their own haplogroup and excluded from the paragroup.

Nive1526
12-04-2017, 04:59 PM
The Haplogroup E-Z16664 contains everyone tested positive for the snp Z16664, no matter which downstream snps they have in addition. It is a monophyletic group, wich means every person in it is a descendant from the Z16664 ancestor and all of his descendants are in it.
The Paragroup E-Z16664* contains people who are positive for the snp Z16664, but not those positive for known additional downstream snps. Therefore it is a paraphyletic group, which means that everyone in it descends from the Z16664 ancestor, but not every descendant of the the Z16664 is in it.

If a unique snp for your paragroup is found, the group will become a haplogroup because then it matches the criteria for monophyly, a common ancestor and all of his descendants are in it.