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ATjunior1
12-04-2017, 10:28 PM
Anybody belong to this haplogroup? I do and I am Filipino.

parasar
12-05-2017, 04:49 AM
Anybody belong to this haplogroup? I do and I am Filipino.

About a fifth of the earth's males are P295 - all Q, R1a, R1b, R2!

But if you are P295+ but P27-, or even M45-, then yours is a long separated branch.
That you are a Filipino makes it plausible that you are from one of these early branches as they are to be found in SE Asia. It has been observed in the Aeta, but on this forum you may be one of the first.

ATjunior1
12-05-2017, 05:02 AM
I show as yDNA haplogroup P-P295 on 23andMe V5.
On Wegene as only P.

Afshar
12-05-2017, 07:01 AM
According to wikipedia : Basal P* is found at its highest rate among members of the Aeta (or Agta), a people indigenous to Luzon, in The Philippines.[1]
I think you are the only one so far on this forum.

RCO
12-05-2017, 10:11 AM
Very interesting. We don't have any P (xQ, xR - no Q, no R) sequence at YFull.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/K2b/
It would be very important and original to have the first complete sequence of a P there !
You can do your advanced test - a Big Y at FTDNA or at FGC.

parasar
12-05-2017, 04:01 PM
I show as yDNA haplogroup P-P295 on 23andMe V5.
On Wegene as only P.

M45 is listed on the 23andme tree so likely M45-.
P27 status is not clear.
But the P295 in the table below in the Philippines are P27-.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2177&d=1406861568

redifflal
12-05-2017, 04:02 PM
What is your background within Philippines? We want all the resolution we can get lol.

parasar
12-05-2017, 08:09 PM
According to wikipedia : Basal P* is found at its highest rate among members of the Aeta (or Agta), a people indigenous to Luzon, in The Philippines.[1]
I think you are the only one so far on this forum.

Very likely. A P sub forum does not even exist!

lgmayka
12-05-2017, 08:55 PM
Anybody belong to this haplogroup? I do and I am Filipino.
From your posts, I understand you have tested with 23andMe but not with Family Tree DNA (FTDNA).

Please consider ordering Y-DNA12 through FTDNA's Y-DNA Early Branches Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Y-DNA_Early). If you apply a $10-off coupon (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CgXRKz2TySvRqSInveSIYoslO7yexAc9d-BzpNhaY1c/edit#gid=1643654054), the price is only $49 + $13 shipping.

Once you have ordered, I (as a co-administrator of the project) should be able to order the Big Y on your account on a pay-later basis, in order to reserve the holiday discount/coupon price ($425). Then, if your Y-DNA12 indeed places you in the P(xQ,R) haplogroup, this forum could try to crowdfund your Big Y if you can't afford it yourself.

ATjunior1
12-06-2017, 03:25 AM
Ok, didn't know it's that unusual.There are no studies that I see on when searching the web so I thought if isn't that special.I msg ISSOG.ORG because it zeems they are doing a study of it.And all the guy said was it's rare in Europeans etc etc so I figured Another Euro Centric Study, lol . He didn't seem impressed I have the P ydna

ATjunior1
12-06-2017, 03:28 AM
I tried to upload my 23andMe Raw Data to FTDNA but it would not take the upload maybe because it is V5 Chip?

bmoney
12-06-2017, 03:33 AM
Anybody belong to this haplogroup? I do and I am Filipino.

Wow - you are the equivalent of a rare Pokemon

The descendants (or siblings if we you're a subclade of P) of your clade are probably the most successful (geographically) y-dna groups on the planet, Europe, Siberia, Central Asia, the Americas, parts of Africa and South Asia

What is your ethnic group?

ATjunior1
12-06-2017, 03:45 AM
Filipino about 98% I think. With minute percentage of S. Indian and European.

ATjunior1
12-06-2017, 03:48 AM
On 23andMe...i show higher percentages in GEDmatch ,DNA.land, Geneplaza etc but no more than 8%. I show Baltic, Balkan, East Euro ,no Iberian and also African East. ..my Maternal is M7C1C3

redifflal
12-06-2017, 03:56 AM
Filipino about 98% I think. With minute percentage of S. Indian and European.

No we mean within Philippines...what island groups, what ethnicities (like indigenous if applicable) etc.

Dubhthach
12-06-2017, 10:44 AM
Ok, didn't know it's that unusual.There are no studies that I see on when searching the web so I thought if isn't that special.I msg ISSOG.ORG because it zeems they are doing a study of it.And all the guy said was it's rare in Europeans etc etc so I figured Another Euro Centric Study, lol . He didn't seem impressed I have the P ydna

Basically P is the parent of Haplogroup Q and R. There's some debate that P (or more specifically it's parent K) originated in SE Asia before undergoing rapid expansion/diversification, the implications for that is that in country like Ireland where R1b makes up 90% of male population that ultimately all of them can trace their ancestral path all way back to SE Asia (on order of 20-30k years ago), which is cool if ye ask me and something I remind my filipina other half all the time ;)

Here is a paper from 2014 talking about the updating of the tree based on new evidence:

Improved phylogenetic resolution and rapid diversification of Y-chromosome haplogroup K-M526 in Southeast Asia.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2014106

K-M526 is parent branch to Haplogroup P (and thus Q and R), Haplogroup M and Haplogroup S.

They had a sample of 25 Aeta and 25 Filipinos in their dataset. When it came to P295* it came back as 28%, they didn't show it in their Filipino cohort, but 25 people is way too small a sample set for the Philippines given the population there is just over 100 million today.

ATjunior1
12-06-2017, 11:12 AM
Visayan, Cebu and my father is from Negros

ATjunior1
12-06-2017, 11:15 AM
I will think about it. What is FGC?

RCO
12-06-2017, 11:23 AM
Full Genomes Corporation
https://isogg.org/wiki/Full_Genomes_Corporation

You can choose FTDNA Big Y or FGC, a very interesting test because you will be the first member of a new P branch at YFull

https://www.yfull.com/tree/P/

parasar
12-06-2017, 03:55 PM
Visayan, Cebu and my father is from Negros

I read that an Aeta related group the Ati live on the Negros and have been living there for 30000 years (a figure based on a possible land connection then).
Any potential connection?

“Aeta,” “Ayta,” “Ita,” and “Ati”
"They were believed to be the first settlers or aborigines of the Philippines, who were later driven away to the mountains and hinterlands by later migrants ... Another Visayan island, Negros, is so named because in the remote past the Aeta were numerous in the island. But Negros at present has a scant Aeta population confined to the extreme northern and southern portions of the island ...
Onetheory suggests that the Aeta are the descendants of the original inhabitants of the
Philippines who arrived through land bridges that linked the country with the Asian
mainland some 30,000 years ago. These migrations may have occurred when the Malay
peninsula was still connected with Sumatra and other Sunda Islands. At that time, the
islands of what is now the Philippines may have been connected, making probable the
dispersal of the Aeta throughout what is now an archipelago. Bellwood (1978:26-27)
described the Aeta as an Australoid people ... more closely related to the AsiaPacific
groups than to the African group. It is also interesting to note that the Luzon
Aeta and Mamanwa have different origins in terms of migration to the Philippines."
http://nlpdl.nlp.gov.ph:81/CC01/NLP00VM052mcd/v1/v1.pdf

ATjunior1
12-06-2017, 10:19 PM
I will think about buying another test BUT I have way too many nieces, nephews and their kids to buy Christmas Gifts for so that's at the bottom of the list...THANK YOU lgmayka for the Offer that's very nice of you

ATjunior1
12-06-2017, 10:28 PM
Ok, I went on Promethease using instructions from web and got even more confused. I showed Haplogroup P but also G and E2b???

ATjunior1
12-06-2017, 10:38 PM
ATTN: lgmayka
I sent you a PM but just in case, I went ahead and ordered the Y-DNA12 kit from FTDNA. Not sure how long it takes to get here and how long it takes to get results back to confirm or disprove.
Thanks Guys

parasar
12-06-2017, 11:56 PM
ATTN: lgmayka
I sent you a PM but just in case, I went ahead and ordered the Y-DNA12 kit from FTDNA. Not sure how long it takes to get here and how long it takes to get results back to confirm or disprove.
Thanks Guys

FTDNA backbone should confirm the P status.
We could then start the crowd funding lgmayka suggested.
I and I am sure others would find it worthwhile to contribute.

bmoney
12-07-2017, 12:46 AM
ATTN: lgmayka
I sent you a PM but just in case, I went ahead and ordered the Y-DNA12 kit from FTDNA. Not sure how long it takes to get here and how long it takes to get results back to confirm or disprove.
Thanks Guys

What ethnic group is your father - Aeta? is he from Luzon?

Dubhthach
12-07-2017, 06:38 AM
If's he's from Negros than it would depend if he's from Negros Occidental or Negros Oriental. In Negros Occidental the primary language is Ilonggo, in Negros Oriental it's Cebuano (as spoken in Cebu), by and large though ye could probably call speakers of both as Visayan.

ATjunior1
12-08-2017, 12:24 AM
no he is not AETA @bmoney as Filipinos think of being indigenous. he passed away a couple years ago. Him and his siblings would consider that an INSULT. That's just the way it is over there. He was actually very pale, medium height and was considered Mestizo. They did have Kink ish hair though and his 2 sisters to me exhibit facially signs of being Aeta or indegenous

ATjunior1
12-08-2017, 12:28 AM
@Dubhthach Negros Occidental but he also claimed ancestry from Mactan Island , Cebu. My late father always claimed that we are descendants of Filipino Hero Lapu Lapu...the Mactan Island Chief who killed Magellan.lol

rayvs
12-08-2017, 12:50 PM
@Dubhthach Negros Occidental but he also claimed ancestry from Mactan Island , Cebu. My late father always claimed that we are descendants of Filipino Hero Lapu Lapu...the Mactan Island Chief who killed Magellan.lol

My late father is from Cebu city too, but never claim that part. lol
I was at Boracay at the beach for vaca couple years back, it was the first time I saw negritos and they were panhandling due to large tourist attraction in that area. They were short in stature, dark, pygmy, kinky hair. I believe boracay is part of panay or negros island.

rayvs
12-08-2017, 01:08 PM
no he is not AETA @bmoney as Filipinos think of being indigenous. he passed away a couple years ago. Him and his siblings would consider that an INSULT. That's just the way it is over there. He was actually very pale, medium height and was considered Mestizo. They did have Kink ish hair though and his 2 sisters to me exhibit facially signs of being Aeta or indegenous

During my visit in the Philippines, I did ask one of my uncles if he was part aeta or negrito because he was originally from negros/iloilo who now lives in Cebu city and has darker complexion, I hope i did not offend him. I thought about this when I came back to the states if that was wrong for me to ask that question. But he said he has no relation with negritos. he still has one of those old restored jeeps left by the U.S , he retired as a high ranking Philippine general.I have no blood relation with this uncle, he married my dads sister.

ATjunior1
12-10-2017, 12:22 AM
2034620347

ATjunior1
01-19-2018, 01:45 AM
Y12 FTDNA currently processing for confirmation of P-P295 .... or NOT, lol....end of FEB estimated

lgmayka
01-19-2018, 03:47 PM
Y12 FTDNA currently processing for confirmation of P-P295 .... or NOT, lol....end of FEB estimated
Your Y-DNA12 was batched on January 1. FTDNA's web page (https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/testing-process/return-kit-long-will-results-take/) claims that Y-DNA marker tests (like Y-DNA12) are essentially on schedule--i.e., 6-8 weeks.

ATjunior1
02-22-2018, 09:47 PM
@lgmayka its K-M9

parasar
02-23-2018, 05:25 PM
@lgmayka its K-M9

It would be amazing if that were the case that you are of an as yet unknown M9 clade, but I have my doubts.
How many P295 related SNPs did FTDNA test? Did they test for P295 or just M45? Did they test M526?

M45 in normal parlance is considered P, but SE Asia has many Ps that are P295+M45-, P295+P27-

parasar
02-23-2018, 05:28 PM
@lgmayka its K-M9

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4326703/bin/ejhg2014106f1.jpg

Megalophias
02-23-2018, 05:32 PM
Karafet found K2*(xMS, P, NO) in Indonesia which has not been identified, besides K2c and K2d, whatever they are . So there *is* at least one unknown K clade out there. My guess is some branch of K2a* (which was found in a Singapore Malay as well as South India).

PS as in tree you just posted while I was typing :)

parasar
02-23-2018, 05:36 PM
Karafet found K2*(xMS, P, NO) in Indonesia which has not been identified, besides K2c and K2d, whatever they are . So there *is* at least one unknown K clade out there. My guess is some branch of K2a* (which was found in a Singapore Malay as well as South India).

PS as in tree you just posted while I was typing :)

The reason I doubt his is not an unknown M9 clade:

I show as yDNA haplogroup P-P295 on 23andMe V5.
On Wegene as only P.

parasar
02-23-2018, 05:51 PM
I browsed my own 23andme data for rs895530 and have this:

intergenic rs895530 7963031 G or T G
Ancestral is T so as expected for Y-R I'm derived for P295.
https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs895530

ATjunior1
02-23-2018, 10:02 PM
21698

Ok, so it could be P2? Maybe? This Ust Ishim guy shows up quite a lot when I do ancient HG or Farmer and I went Conservative on the SNPs and my only match on FTDNA is an F-M9.
Have no idea what this all means but its sure FUN.

lgmayka
02-23-2018, 11:28 PM
Ok, so it could be P2?
ISOGG's P haplotree (https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpP.html) shows P2 (P295+ M45-) with a notation that it is found in the Philippines.

parasar
02-24-2018, 12:49 AM
21698

Ok, so it could be P2? Maybe? This Ust Ishim guy shows up quite a lot when I do ancient HG or Farmer and I went Conservative on the SNPs and my only match on FTDNA is an F-M9.
Have no idea what this all means but its sure FUN.

Did you browse and check rs895530 in your 23andme raw data?
Is it T or G?

Also please check 23andme for rs2033003. It should be C (M526+) for P295+.
intergenic rs2033003 23550924 A or C C

ATjunior1
02-24-2018, 07:20 PM
@parasar rs895530 is G only, G;- in Codegen. rs2033003 shows Not Determined. in Codegen it shows about 4 rs and 2 are A;A 2 C;C

lgmayka
02-24-2018, 10:21 PM
I posted a crowdfunding request (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?13578-P-P295-needs-Big-Y) to get this kit a Big Y.

Dubhthach
02-27-2018, 10:05 AM
I posted a crowdfunding request (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?13578-P-P295-needs-Big-Y) to get this kit a Big Y.

Goo stuff, donation made!

lgmayka
02-27-2018, 03:17 PM
Goo stuff, donation made!
Thanks! Only $40 more needed.

lgmayka
02-27-2018, 09:52 PM
Only $40 more needed.
Got it! Big Y order has been paid for, and should be sent to the lab in Wednesday night's batch.

ATjunior1
03-01-2018, 08:21 PM
Got it! Big Y order has been paid for, and should be sent to the lab in Wednesday night's batch.

Thank You so much to @lgmayka for doing this on my behalf and the donors.....

ATjunior1
04-20-2018, 12:52 AM
FTDNA Big Y haplogroup P-BY49600

ADW_1981
04-20-2018, 09:12 PM
FTDNA Big Y haplogroup P-BY49600

Do you know if this is P1 or P2?

palamede
04-20-2018, 09:23 PM
FTDNA Big Y haplogroup P-BY49600
What are the main SNPs (which defined nodes) between the basal P-P295 and your terminal SNP BY49600 ?

Osiris
04-20-2018, 09:46 PM
This is the FTDNA P tree

*P295, F115P
*****F29,F332,F344,F359,F4,F506,F556,F640,F671,F83 ,P27,YSC0000176,YSC0000205,YSC0000251,YSC0000270,Y SC0000279,P69,PAGES00083,PF5465,PF5468,PF5471,PF58 51,PF5853,PF5854,PF5865,PF5869,PF5871,PF5882,PF588 6,PF5887,PF5888,CTS3135,CTS3358,L779,CTS5884,PF595 6,PF5957,PF5964,PF5965,L82,L768,PF5982,L47192,R7,L 138,P207,P226,P228,P230,P235,P237,P239,P240,P243,P 244,P281,P282,P283,P284,F313,M74,CTS10168,CTS4437
*****CTS1014,CTS8716,PF6265
*****BY49600

From reading their comments he's something we've never seen before. And P1 and P2 will now be pushed down a level.

bmoney
04-20-2018, 10:35 PM
This is the FTDNA P tree

*P295, F115P
*****F29,F332,F344,F359,F4,F506,F556,F640,F671,F83 ,P27,YSC0000176,YSC0000205,YSC0000251,YSC0000270,Y SC0000279,P69,PAGES00083,PF5465,PF5468,PF5471,PF58 51,PF5853,PF5854,PF5865,PF5869,PF5871,PF5882,PF588 6,PF5887,PF5888,CTS3135,CTS3358,L779,CTS5884,PF595 6,PF5957,PF5964,PF5965,L82,L768,PF5982,L47192,R7,L 138,P207,P226,P228,P230,P235,P237,P239,P240,P243,P 244,P281,P282,P283,P284,F313,M74,CTS10168,CTS4437
*****CTS1014,CTS8716,PF6265
*****BY49600

From reading their comments he's something we've never seen before. And P1 and P2 will now be pushed down a level.

Wow, you found it here on genica first folks

Osiris
04-21-2018, 12:31 AM
Ha, well I just copied the P tree from FTDNA and read this thread and this other one.
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?13228-P-P295

Hats off to ataneojr1 and the Anthrogenica crew that helped to fund the tests and push things through. I'm fascinated by rare male lines and especially to ones that have lived as long as this one has.

lgmayka
04-21-2018, 08:52 PM
From reading their comments he's something we've never seen before. And P1 and P2 will now be pushed down a level.
My impression is that P-BY49600 is actually a singleton, not an actual subclade with two or more confirmed members. I suspect that some element of FTDNA's software has difficulty placing a customer at the top level of a haplogroup, so FTDNA defined a "dummy" subclade for ataneojr1.

The reason I say this is that the P-BY49600 appears on the tree to be defined by exactly one SNP. It is extremely difficult to believe that someone else shares his BY49600 SNP but none of his other (nearly 300) unnamed variants. When we eventually find a second member of his subclade, their TMRCA is much more likely to be within the last few thousand years, and thus with perhaps 200 shared SNPs.

ATjunior1
04-22-2018, 06:35 PM
Do you know if this is P1 or P2?
I don't know which one at FTDNA...Yfull placed it at K2B for now but could change to P* or other at the next Yfull update I was informed and understood the process(???).
@lgmayka would be the GoTo person for how the process works.

Big THANKS to Mr. L!!!

Шад
04-22-2018, 07:17 PM
My impression is that P-BY49600 is actually a singleton, not an actual subclade with two or more confirmed members. I suspect that some element of FTDNA's software has difficulty placing a customer at the top level of a haplogroup, so FTDNA defined a "dummy" subclade for ataneojr1.

The reason I say this is that the P-BY49600 appears on the tree to be defined by exactly one SNP. It is extremely difficult to believe that someone else shares his BY49600 SNP but none of his other (nearly 300) unnamed variants. When we eventually find a second member of his subclade, their TMRCA is much more likely to be within the last few thousand years, and thus with perhaps 200 shared SNPs.

Are you going to submit data (VCF file) to YFull?
I think this might be the right step for the further analysis.

ATjunior1
04-22-2018, 08:10 PM
Are you going to submit data (VCF file) to YFull?
I think this might be the right step for the further analysis.

I submitted it to Yfull and currently they have it at haplogroup K2B.
But they really need the BAM file which currently is not available to download at FTDNA.

Шад
04-24-2018, 07:59 PM
As far as I understand, the result showed that this is not the haplogroup P (not R, not Q).
https://yfull.com/tree/K2b/
I believe that the BAM file will not add clarity. Add clarity can scientific samples from Southeast Asia and Pacific region. But for now this is a unique branch that is parallel to M and S.

ATjunior1
04-24-2018, 08:55 PM
Ha, well I just copied the P tree from FTDNA and read this thread and this other one.
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?13228-P-P295

Hats off to ataneojr1 and the Anthrogenica crew that helped to fund the tests and push things through. I'm fascinated by rare male lines and especially to ones that have lived as long as this one has.

Thank You @Osiris for your comment.
@lgmayka at Early Branches Project talked me into doing the Big Y and set it all up,lol. Special Thanks to him.

Osiris
04-24-2018, 09:04 PM
From the crowdfunding thread.


His Big Y results have arrived, and YFull has already analyzed his VCF/BED file. For the moment, he has been placed in the K2b category (https://yfull.com/tree/K2b/); but in the next version of YFull's haplotree he should be P*. The P level (https://yfull.com/tree/P/) itself will have to be split (as FTDNA's P tree already illustrates), because he tested positive for P295 and F115 but negative for almost all the rest.

(I am perhaps giving more information than I usually would because his Big Y was crowdfunded.)