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View Full Version : man, the mtDNA threads all seem to be dead as of a few years back



wombatofthenorth
12-09-2017, 05:37 AM
even more so than the tepid Y haplo threads
nobody is interested in haplogroups anymore?

Osiris
12-09-2017, 09:49 AM
Maybe if there was more we could do? We have Phylotree which was updated Feb 2016. It would be nice if FTDNA had their own tree for it like they do for Y chromosome. The process for adding branches is slow and complicated. Instead you wait years for someone else to hop through all the hoops to get their DNA to the right people so that phylotree can update it.

Probably should be cheaper too, seems like $100 is really good price to have things at. Or make it a $50 add-on to the family finder and Y111. Of course I don't know what the return on a kit should be but you'd think a lower price would increase volume which gives volume benefits.

Otherwise yeah, it seems mostly forgotten.

MacUalraig
12-09-2017, 09:54 AM
They don't appear to be informative. I think I'm the only person in the UK so far with mine and the rest are central/eastern europe. What use is that to me?

There is a hg H group on fb which is about as useful as an R1b Y project!

rms2
12-09-2017, 01:41 PM
I'll probably engage in a flurry of posting once my Full Sequence results come in, but that will mostly be in the U subforum.

GailT
12-09-2017, 05:22 PM
Maybe if there was more we could do? We have Phylotree which was updated Feb 2016. It would be nice if FTDNA had their own tree for it like they do for Y chromosome. The process for adding branches is slow and complicated. Instead you wait years for someone else to hop through all the hoops to get their DNA to the right people so that phylotree can update it.

mtDNA has always been FTDNA's poor step-daughter. They don't invest resources in making it more useful for customers, and they rely on Mannis van Oven to update the Phylotree every two years. I add proposed new subclades to the FTDNA projects that I manage (H10, L0, U1, U2, U3, U5 and U7) but if customers do not submit their results to GenBank, they are not included in the official Phylotree. Many FTDNA customers have signed a release form for research, so if FTDNA would submit all of those samples to GenBank, we would have a much more detailed tree.

There are still interesting new findings in mtDNA, although the pace is slow. I plan to post on some of these and to update the project web pages to provide more detailed info, but it's difficult to make time for this. I can barely keep up with processing the new people who join the projects that I manage.

One interesting finding is a new subclade of L0a that is about 50,000 years old and has only been found in two people from Armenia. It is uncertain if this new subclade might also be found in Africa or when it exited Africa, it could be any time between about 3000 to 50,000 years ago.

Dewsloth
12-09-2017, 05:34 PM
They don't appear to be informative. I think I'm the only person in the UK so far with mine and the rest are central/eastern europe. What use is that to me?

There is a hg H group on fb which is about as useful as an R1b Y project!

I know how you feel: I'm the only J2a1a1e of Lebanese descent in either the FTDNA "J" mtDNA group or the Lebanon/Syria group.

Add to that due to some very poor planning, J2a1 is not only a mtDNA haplogroup, but also a Ydna haplogroup (and one that IS present in the Levant), research is a royal pain.

kostoffj
12-09-2017, 06:15 PM
It seems to me that perhaps the utility of mtDNA haplogroups are limited? I am not a scientist, but I surmise that if there was a lot of value there, by now we'd see them being more prominent. It seems to me that Y DNA has much to say about and contribute to, the genetic exploration of pre-history but I don't see nearly the contribution from mtDNA. That's not to say there's no value, but relative to Y it seems very minor. The other area where people take an active interest in haplogroups is in personal genetics, and I have never heard of people gaining much from mtDNA there. Y DNA can be incredibly useful - I know adoptees who were able to find their biological families through Y DNA, or Y DNA-assisted genetic testing and research, but I have never heard of someone finding long lost relatives through mtDNA. Maybe that's happened, but never heard of it.

Aizkora
12-09-2017, 06:24 PM
In a man's world only the Y matters.

firemonkey
12-09-2017, 06:53 PM
I'm H67. There's next to nothing out there about it. I've got 15 coding region matches.13 are GD 2 and 2 are GD 3.

As for Ydna E-Z16664(E-V13---E-L17-- -E-BY5219---E-Z16664) again virtually no info. E-BY5219 reportedly British and Iberian.

RCO
12-09-2017, 07:33 PM
We can find more or less an even distribution of mtDNA with strong local and regional historical identities, fairly related to geography, so imaginary political agendas do not fit very well there and usually mtDNA does not attract the big imaginary narratives of some kind of Y-DNA fables, fictitious narratives or statements, such as a legendary story of supernatural happenings still not proved. I think Y-DNA narratives and pretensions should learn the same modest association between data and location from mtDNA, it would be good for the field.

MacUalraig
12-09-2017, 08:07 PM
I know how you feel: I'm the only J2a1a1e of Lebanese descent in either the FTDNA "J" mtDNA group or the Lebanon/Syria group.

Add to that due to some very poor planning, J2a1 is not only a mtDNA haplogroup, but also a Ydna haplogroup (and one that IS present in the Levant), research is a royal pain.

That must be a nuisance, but all the more reason to avoid long form Y hg names ;-)

MacUalraig
12-09-2017, 08:14 PM
We can find more or less an even distribution of mtDNA with strong local and regional historical identities, fairly related to geography, so imaginary political agendas do not fit very well there and usually mtDNA does not attract the big imaginary narratives of some kind of Y-DNA fables, fictitious narratives or statements, such as a legendary story of supernatural happenings still not proved. I think Y-DNA narratives and pretensions should learn the same modest association between data and location from mtDNA, it would be good for the field.

Is that because men shaped our history more (since history tends to equate to who invaded who)? I was going to say we never hear about Mrs. Niall (either of them) or Mrs. Khan but then I googled 'most famous women in history' and there she was

"11. Borte Ujin (1161-1230) was the wife of Genghis Khan and empress of the Mongolian Empire, the largest land empire in history. She was one of Genghis Khan’s most trusted advisors and ruled the Mongol homeland in the long periods when he’d be away at war."

http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/top-15-most-powerful-women-in-history

(no. 1 in the list doesn't seem to offer much mileage in this thread)

Osiris
12-09-2017, 08:27 PM
I have K1c1g, I3a, H3h and W6a in my tree. The only one that seems to show some history is W6a+A4164G which looks like it's Uralic in origin. The others still seem really well smeared across Europe.

I always thought that the Y chromosomes should switch to two letter halogroup name then there would be no confusion between mtdna and y haplogroup names. Of course with so much history on the internet you'll always turn up historic vesions in web searches.

razyn
12-09-2017, 09:00 PM
I was mildly interested in my mtDNA, T2f3; when that was newly discovered, I swapped a few emails with Ian Logan, jumped through the recommended hoops and joined the T2 project at FTDNA. Then after FTDNA started up the new display format, that project had a forum option; I participated in the short-lived phenomenon of lively discussions on it. In which, btw, no admin of the project ever participated at all. One day, one of them presumably saw the GAP verbiage, "You have converted to myGroups. Undo this conversion at any time." And someone Undid. So, all the T2 forum activity went to the Island of Lost Posts, taking with it whatever interest (and connectivity) the rest of us had, that the admins clearly did not share.

Latterly, one new co-admin has come aboard (in 2013, I believe) who is actually still interested -- but only in her specialty, T2e (currently 128 members of the T2 project). They get updated a bit -- if it occurs to them to click on "News" while signed in to the group. The rest of us haven't heard a peep since some of the admins published in JOGG, shortly before that online journal also lay down for a 5-year nap. At that time T2f, g, h, i, j, k, and T2l hadn't yet been described -- that's another 172 people who have spent some pretty good money to get sequenced sufficiently for such classification. The lack of communication also applies to the 1385 members in groups T2a through T2d; but at least their subclades got mentioned in the old JOGG paper.

Anyway, in the circumstances it's been hard to maintain the youthful enthusiasm I had when I was only 73.

kostoffj
12-09-2017, 09:45 PM
In a man's world only the Y matters.

That's silly. I would love to learn as much as my mtDNA has to tell me. Unfortunately that is next to nothing at this point.

Glib responses like these don't help, they shed heat but give no light.

wombatofthenorth
12-09-2017, 10:14 PM
They don't appear to be informative. I think I'm the only person in the UK so far with mine and the rest are central/eastern europe. What use is that to me?

There is a hg H group on fb which is about as useful as an R1b Y project!

because there is more to things than recent genealogy!

wombatofthenorth
12-09-2017, 10:16 PM
It seems to me that perhaps the utility of mtDNA haplogroups are limited? I am not a scientist, but I surmise that if there was a lot of value there, by now we'd see them being more prominent. It seems to me that Y DNA has much to say about and contribute to, the genetic exploration of pre-history but I don't see nearly the contribution from mtDNA. That's not to say there's no value, but relative to Y it seems very minor. The other area where people take an active interest in haplogroups is in personal genetics, and I have never heard of people gaining much from mtDNA there. Y DNA can be incredibly useful - I know adoptees who were able to find their biological families through Y DNA, or Y DNA-assisted genetic testing and research, but I have never heard of someone finding long lost relatives through mtDNA. Maybe that's happened, but never heard of it.

there is a way more to DNA than just finding recent lost relatives or doing recent genealogy
(for some reason a many way into genealogy seem to tend to just blanket toss off everything else as useless junk, never mind many find the migrations and deep ancestry tracing more interesting in many ways, but so long as it doesn't best help them find some 2nd cousin it is tossed off universally as junk which really does not seem fair to me at all)

wombatofthenorth
12-09-2017, 10:18 PM
In a man's world only the Y matters.

even Y doesn't get that much discussion these days (although certainly more than mtDNA)

I suppose it doesn't help that Ancestry.com, MyHeritage and FamilyFinder don't even give people haplogroups at all.
23 does though and that seems to be the 2nd or 3rd biggest seller.
Geno does of course.
As does LivingDNA.
(FTDNA with special ad ons, but they add ons seem to be taken much more rarely than base initial tests)

Pylsteen
12-09-2017, 10:30 PM
I have the impression mt-dna is quite useful looking at prehistoric skeletons; it seems often quite diverse (after mesolithic at least), in contrast to the y-dna.

Gravetto-Danubian
12-09-2017, 10:42 PM
Yep I'd love to know where H47 came from , but cant even find it on a tree.
(guessing central-east Europe, somewhere)

Dewsloth
12-09-2017, 11:29 PM
I have the impression mt-dna is quite useful looking at prehistoric skeletons; it seems often quite diverse (after mesolithic at least), in contrast to the y-dna.

It’s small and tough, so they can get mtDNA from skeletons that don’t give good reads for anything else.

But it can be frustrating, too. Too often the test results are given as single-letter (e.g. “J”) which doesn’t really help if you’re looking for evidence of a specific 4,000 year old subclade of J.

kostoffj
12-10-2017, 04:37 AM
there is a way more to DNA than just finding recent lost relatives or doing recent genealogy
(for some reason a many way into genealogy seem to tend to just blanket toss off everything else as useless junk, never mind many find the migrations and deep ancestry tracing more interesting in many ways, but so long as it doesn't best help them find some 2nd cousin it is tossed off universally as junk which really does not seem fair to me at all)

That was only the second half of what I said though. The first part of my statement I do ask about deep ancestry, ancient population genetics, etc. As a layman though I confess I don't hear much about it, not like Y DNA. Where is the mapping of clades of mtDNA HGs to various peoples in space and time like we see with Y? I can look at my Y DNA HG and learn quite a lot about how that clade and its ancestors moved through time and space and get a good idea of who those men were and where they ended up, I can't find out anything like this for my mtDNA HG. So, why is that the case? Like Gravetto-Danubian, I'd like to know more about H42a. All I know is that I can trace it back personally from my mother's mother's mother's mother's mother to Bohemia. That's it. After that, there's an abyss and way over on the other side there's mtDNA HG H, which is like half of all European mtDNA.

msmarjoribanks
12-10-2017, 05:10 AM
I'm really interested in it, but as noted above too often the information you find is just for the broad haplogroups (H or U or J or K) and given how diffuse those are it tells you nothing. When I first started researching K you'd get stats about the Ashkenazi groups and general breakdowns of percentages of K in different countries now and of course Otzi, but very little that shows the breakdown of the more specific haplogroups. Since I'm a branch of K2b, and that doesn't seem to be early Near Eastern farmer (like some of the more common K subclades), and since it is relatively rare even among K, just K doesn't tell me much. I think of it as something about which more will increasingly be known (like Y-DNA too, but maybe even more so).

One thing is that even if we had maps of the more specific clades I think it would not be as clear as with Y-DNA (not that that's clear, exactly), because it's more stable. I've looked carefully for patterns of the various K2* groups, and most of them are broadly throughout Europe even within the clade (more information and ancient results might help). To illustrate, I have few matches, but my dad (also a K2*, specifically K2b1a1a) has a lot. Some are hundreds of years to a common ancestor (I have a few who diverge immediately after the family came to America in the 1600s), others could be more than 1000 (some German perfect matches to his which traces to a woman in Suffolk in the 1500s, several 1 mutation differences to people throughout Germany and Scandinavia as well as the British Isles). This is the full test.

Táltos
12-10-2017, 05:31 AM
Agree with everyone here that more should be done in regard to mtDNA. Here is a link for a recent encycopledia of mtDNA. It is quite inclusive, but descriptions are short. However it is all in all quite a feat for one person!

http://haplogroup.org/encyclopedia-of-mtdna-origins/


The Encyclopedia of mtDNA Origins is a guide to what is known about each mtDNA branch. Today, much of what we know is raw material from Geno 2.0 results, Genbank samples, published papers, built around the structure of the mtDNA Phylotree. The encyclopedia brings the data from those sources together in a format that allows new knowledge of our maternal origins to emerge. – Rebekah

GailT
12-10-2017, 05:43 AM
That was only the second half of what I said though. The first part of my statement I do ask about deep ancestry, ancient population genetics, etc. As a layman though I confess I don't hear much about it, not like Y DNA. Where is the mapping of clades of mtDNA HGs to various peoples in space and time like we see with Y? I can look at my Y DNA HG and learn quite a lot about how that clade and its ancestors moved through time and space and get a good idea of who those men were and where they ended up, I can't find out anything like this for my mtDNA HG. So, why is that the case? Like Gravetto-Danubian, I'd like to know more about H42a. All I know is that I can trace it back personally from my mother's mother's mother's mother's mother to Bohemia. That's it. After that, there's an abyss and way over on the other side there's mtDNA HG H, which is like half of all European mtDNA.


The slow mutation rate limits the usefulness of mtDNA for estimating origins or tracking migrations on the scale of several thousand years. It is much more useful for evaluating migrations on a longer time scale, HOWEVER, I think we can still get interesting information from mtDNA, but it will take more analysis. Halplogroup H is a challenge because it is relatively young (about 14,000 years by Behar's estimate), and it experienced a rapid population expansion in the Neolithic. Also, there are living people who are plain H with no additional mutations, so new H subclades are still being formed today.

Even with those limitations, you can still estimate the age of each subclade and study its current population distribution, and in some cases, you can find ancient samples. The real problem is that no one is doing this analysis, FTDNA has thousands of samples, only a small fraction of which are available in GenBank. FTDNA project administrators have access to more samples, but perhaps only about 20% of FTDNA customers join the projects and share their results. It would be helpful if we had more people volunteer for the projects. It would be even better if we could persuade FTDNA to publish in GenBank all of the samples for which customers signed the research release,

msmarjoribanks
12-10-2017, 02:24 PM
The real problem is that no one is doing this analysis, FTDNA has thousands of samples, only a small fraction of which are available in GenBank. FTDNA project administrators have access to more samples, but perhaps only about 20% of FTDNA customers join the projects and share their results. It would be helpful if we had more people volunteer for the projects. It would be even better if we could persuade FTDNA to publish in GenBank all of the samples for which customers signed the research release,

This is true. I have no matches in my project, but I do have matches, they haven't joined.

One of my resolutions for next year (although I've started already) is to try to get into contact with the matches I have not, and with all the matches if they seem receptive to encourage them to join the project. I'm also trying to be active in the project (a lot of times people are confused by their results and get frustrated and just decide it was a pointless test and tell others that -- lots of complaints about it at the FTDNA forums I see -- and helping them understand what the results mean I think helps with that). There are a couple of other project members in mine who seem to be doing the same.

razyn
12-10-2017, 03:53 PM
Here is a link for a recent encycopledia of mtDNA. It is quite inclusive, but descriptions are short.

Here are a couple more good sources, for European mtDNA (and whence it came, mostly after the LGM):

Pala et al (2012), Mitochondrial DNA Signals of Late Glacial Recolonization of Europe from Near Eastern Refugia https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3376494/

I had intended to link the 2015 dissertation of Anna Szécsényi-Nagy, formerly available as a PDF download, but that seems no longer to be available. (It was quite informative about the western Hungarian basin, in particular.) However she is quite actively engaged in aDNA research, mitochondrial and otherwise. A good number of her papers are available (or at least referenced) via her Academia.edu page. https://mta.academia.edu/SzecsenyiNagyAnna

razyn
12-10-2017, 05:16 PM
Where is the mapping of clades of mtDNA HGs to various peoples in space and time like we see with Y? I can look at my Y DNA HG and learn quite a lot about how that clade and its ancestors moved through time and space and get a good idea of who those men were and where they ended up, I can't find out anything like this for my mtDNA HG. So, why is that the case?
For people who have tested at LivingDNA, there's a semi nifty animated map of one's own major mtDNA haplogroup. Not the finer detail, though. Mine shows the progress from mtDNA "Eve" to some hotspots of mtDNA T in Europe. Some literature is also cited, to back it up. Their test had correctly identified T2f3 from my sample (at a lot less cost than the same call from FTDNA, a few years ago); but the map feature doesn't even distinguish between T1 and T2. Also, the customer can't see the migration route for anybody else's mtDNA haplogroup; it's specific to the person who has signed in to his/her account there. As an example, here is the final frame of mine (after a little movie clip has run):

20359

I dimly recall having seen a similar mapping feature at Genographic Project presentations, at conferences I attended. But I haven't tested there, so I'm not sure what graphics their customers can access.

GailT
12-10-2017, 05:41 PM
Here is an example for a new project U5 member who I'm processing this morning. FTDNA assigned him to U5b1d1a, but based on other project member results, I know that Phylotree needs to be revised and he can be placed in a more specific subclade U5b1d1a1. The recent Tassi et al study also found a U5b1d1a1 sample in the GAC culture dated at about 5000 ybp. There are two GenBank U5b1d1a1 samples from Denmark and Tunisia, and two FTDNA project members from Sweden and Germany. You can already start to put together a very interesting history for these maternal lineages, from pre-LGM European hunter-gatherers, a post-LGM expansion from Iberia, incorporation into the GAC and perhaps more widely into other Neolithic cultures.

There are two more U5b1d1a1 FTDNA project members who have not shared their coding region results. From the match lists of U5b1d1a1 project members I can see that there are more than 20 people in U5b1d1a1 who have tested the FMS but I have access to coding region results for only 2 of those people. Some of the U5b1d1a1 members have extra HVR1 mutations, and in their match lists I can see another 15 FTDNA customers who only tested the HVR region, but I can predict with high confidence that they are also U5b1d1a1, There are several subgroups within U5b1d1a1 who might share a common maternal ancestor in colonial U.S., and they could be sharing information in their genealogy research. So in some cases there is great potential in using mtDNA for ancient origins and for genealogy, but very few people are taking advantage of this because no one has explained to them how to interpret their mtDNA results.

At the other end of the spectrum, there are people in extremely common haplogroups with no mutations in their maternal line in 10,000 years. They are not going to get as much detailed information, but they still can trace their maternal lineage history in major migrations up to 10,000 years ago, and they also have information that can be used to support or disprove suspected genealogical relationships.

Saetro
12-10-2017, 07:54 PM
Often a major part of engaging with an activity is pleasurable early experiences.
Being welcomed can be one of them. So I ask -

New mtDNA matches.
What should we do with them?
I have started welcoming new matches, even if they are just a little too far away from me to help me out.
Encouraged them to join haplogroup project(s).
Showed them how to add their oldest known all-female line relative and her geographical coordinates so she turns up on matches maps.
Told them about where to find haplogroup travel maps, Eupedia info and the encyclopedia.
I am waiting for them to find their feet before mentioning Genbank, but that will come.
And of course, I encourage them to talk to their close matches.

And not all at once, that would be too much.

What more should I be doing, do you think?
Or should it be done differently?
Appreciate suggestions.

wombatofthenorth
12-10-2017, 08:11 PM
For people who have tested at LivingDNA, there's a semi nifty animated map of one's own major mtDNA haplogroup. Not the finer detail, though. Mine shows the progress from mtDNA "Eve" to some hotspots of mtDNA T in Europe. Some literature is also cited, to back it up. Their test had correctly identified T2f3 from my sample (at a lot less cost than the same call from FTDNA, a few years ago); but the map feature doesn't even distinguish between T1 and T2. Also, the customer can't see the migration route for anybody else's mtDNA haplogroup; it's specific to the person who has signed in to his/her account there. As an example, here is the final frame of mine (after a little movie clip has run):

20359

I dimly recall having seen a similar mapping feature at Genographic Project presentations, at conferences I attended. But I haven't tested there, so I'm not sure what graphics their customers can access.

Geno 2.0 gives a pretty nice presentation of haplogroups, the nicest of all the companies IMO.
Interestingly, apparently Geno 2.0 NG Helix now tests nearly 95% full mtDNA! Although only U.S. customers get this test at this point in time and not so many people seem to take this test compared to the others, so sadly, not sure it will produce tons more data

wombatofthenorth
12-10-2017, 08:18 PM
Here is an example for a new project U5 member who I'm processing this morning. FTDNA assigned him to U5b1d1a, but based on other project member results, I know that Phylotree needs to be revised and he can be placed in a more specific subclade U5b1d1a1. The recent Tassi et al study also found a U5b1d1a1 sample in the GAC culture dated at about 5000 ybp. There are two GenBank U5b1d1a1 samples from Denmark and Tunisia, and two FTDNA project members from Sweden and Germany. You can already start to put together a very interesting history for these maternal lineages, from pre-LGM European hunter-gatherers, a post-LGM expansion from Iberia, incorporation into the GAC and perhaps more widely into other Neolithic cultures.

There are two more U5b1d1a1 FTDNA project members who have not shared their coding region results. From the match lists of U5b1d1a1 project members I can see that there are more than 20 people in U5b1d1a1 who have tested the FMS but I have access to coding region results for only 2 of those people. Some of the U5b1d1a1 members have extra HVR1 mutations, and in their match lists I can see another 15 FTDNA customers who only tested the HVR region, but I can predict with high confidence that they are also U5b1d1a1, There are several subgroups within U5b1d1a1 who might share a common maternal ancestor in colonial U.S., and they could be sharing information in their genealogy research. So in some cases there is great potential in using mtDNA for ancient origins and for genealogy, but very few people are taking advantage of this because no one has explained to them how to interpret their mtDNA results.

At the other end of the spectrum, there are people in extremely common haplogroups with no mutations in their maternal line in 10,000 years. They are not going to get as much detailed information, but they still can trace their maternal lineage history in major migrations up to 10,000 years ago, and they also have information that can be used to support or disprove suspected genealogical relationships.

And I guess we do need more people to submit to Genebank too. I have to contact my distance 0 and my distance 1 match as it seems like we can for a new sub-branch of k1a4a1. We have 100% exact base k1a4a1 plus 1 extra stable CR mutation for all three of us and then two of us have one more stable CR extra on top of that (we are both from the Baltic region, although there is a chance I think my mtDNA might perhaps trace back to the Netherlands; the other person traces their strictly maternal line way back in Sicily). Anyway it seems like we could form a new k1a4a1j and k1a4a1j1.

Geborgenheit
12-17-2017, 12:53 PM
I have ordered mtDNA Plus from FTDNA. :)

Just excited to find out my Haplogroup, not expecting any matches.

Meanwhile, I will read Bryan Sykes' Seven daughters of Eve. Looks like an interesting book.

wombatofthenorth
01-06-2018, 02:35 AM
My dad got his full mtDNA back and got bumped from V3 to V3c.
He has a bunch of distance 1 matches. Only one of them is perfect over HVR1 and HVR2. Not sure whether this match or the ones with one step off in HV1 or HVR2 but perfect CR matches are likely to be closer. Not sure if it means anything or it is just an artifact of who has tested but his distance 1 matches are all tracing ancestry to either the UK or Germany.
My dad is from Latvia.

Vestri
01-06-2018, 05:26 AM
I'm very interested in my MtDNA but the information for it is very limited and so it gets a bit tedious and long winded waiting for more samples to come through.

I'm more interested in knowing how it got to Britain considering so far all the matches are from central/East Europe. The proposed theory is that W1 came from Central Europe from the Danube valley but with whom? I know of 1 German W1g, and my 2 FTDNA W1g matches are from Slovakia/Hungary.

My actual Maternal line goes back to the Midlands in England to the 1600's.

wombatofthenorth
01-09-2018, 12:12 AM
I'm very interested in my MtDNA but the information for it is very limited and so it gets a bit tedious and long winded waiting for more samples to come through.

I'm more interested in knowing how it got to Britain considering so far all the matches are from central/East Europe. The proposed theory is that W1 came from Central Europe from the Danube valley but with whom? I know of 1 German W1g, and my 2 FTDNA W1g matches are from Slovakia/Hungary.

My actual Maternal line goes back to the Midlands in England to the 1600's.

"W1g: found mostly in western and central Europe, but also in Pakistan and India (Punjab, Gujarat)"

Vestri
01-09-2018, 07:57 AM
"W1g: found mostly in western and central Europe, but also in Pakistan and India (Punjab, Gujarat)"

Yes, that's from eupedia isn't it? Which is cool but I want to know more in depth as to how it migrated, from which tribes migrated with it and brought it to Britain and so on.

I actually emailed Mark Wade from thecid and over at FTDNA on the W and N Project and his response was,


W1g is pretty widely reported now. Taking into account HVR1 / HVR2 only results, it has now shown up in Austria, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Germany, Spain, France, UK, Hungary, India, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, and the Ukraine. The Czech and Indian results seem to have a common ancestor, sharing a 214 hvr2 mutation. Needless to say, this points yet again to a steppe origin and then a spread into Europe and India. One British result has a 16311 mutation that might indicate a German origin for that lineage. Whether this came with the Celts, or later with the Angles or Saxons, cannot be said.

Wiatt
01-17-2020, 06:57 PM
I am K1c1g also. What can you tell me about it? Thanks, WW in Ohio.