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Anglo-Celtic
12-09-2017, 06:53 AM
Hi all. This is my first post since I joined this fascinating forum. It's so informative and interesting! I'm impressed with many of the members too.

Ancestry DNA just created quite a few new genetic communities. Southwest Scotland wasn't one of them. Much of my ancestry comes from this area, so I'm curious as to what replacements or substitutes may be in its place. For instance, could it be labeled as Northern Irish? There is and was so much back and forth between Ulster and Southwest Scotland. People, in both places, share genes. The other Scottish categories don't seem quite right since Southwest Scotland (even the Lowlands) differs from Southeast Scotland. My main concern is that I will be placed in the wrong community.

MacUalraig
12-09-2017, 07:47 AM
Hi all. This is my first post since I joined this fascinating forum. It's so informative and interesting! I'm impressed with many of the members too.

Ancestry DNA just created quite a few new genetic communities. Southwest Scotland wasn't one of them. Much of my ancestry comes from this area, so I'm curious as to what replacements or substitutes may be in its place. For instance, could it be labeled as Northern Irish? There is and was so much back and forth between Ulster and Southwest Scotland. People, in both places, share genes. The other Scottish categories don't seem quite right since Southwest Scotland (even the Lowlands) differs from Southeast Scotland. My main concern is that I will be placed in the wrong community.

'Central Scotland & Ulster, Ireland' pretty much covers it if you look at the map. It's the one I'm in.

Nqp15hhu
12-09-2017, 10:52 PM
No, it wouldn't be Northern Ireland, since there is actually a native Irish community there aswell. My ancestry results reflect that.

Anglo-Celtic
12-10-2017, 01:26 AM
'Central Scotland & Ulster, Ireland' pretty much covers it if you look at the map. It's the one I'm in.

I again looked at the categories. The groupings and labels seemed quite arbitrary and convoluted. For example, it was strange that areas in Canada were included with Highlanders. I understand that they were emigrants to parts of Canada, but one could make the same argument for the inclusion of Cape Fear.

Anglo-Celtic
12-10-2017, 01:30 AM
No, it wouldn't be Northern Ireland, since there is actually a native Irish community there aswell. My ancestry results reflect that.

The other poster received that result, though. It makes sense because Southwest Scotland and Ulster are close to each other in more ways than one. I agree that Southeast Scotland wouldn't cluster as much with the Native Irish. That's why I think that the areas should be divided.

Nqp15hhu
12-10-2017, 09:19 AM
I have a Scottish Genetic Community and an Ulster Genetic Community which is native Irish. Obviously, the Scottish one is not native Irish.

Anglo-Celtic
12-11-2017, 01:36 AM
I have a Scottish Genetic Community and an Ulster Genetic Community which is native Irish. Obviously, the Scottish one is not native Irish.

It's not, but there are some genetic similarities in the case of close groups. Ulster and Southwestern Scotland are close. It's likely that the latter would match Native Irish populations to a good extent. That's not so much the case with other Scottish populations.

MacUalraig
12-11-2017, 07:47 PM
I again looked at the categories. The groupings and labels seemed quite arbitrary and convoluted. For example, it was strange that areas in Canada were included with Highlanders. I understand that they were emigrants to parts of Canada, but one could make the same argument for the inclusion of Cape Fear.

Only if people in Cape Fear matched the DNA algorithm. The signal may be too dispersed and that colony is quite a bit older than the movements to Canada.

Anglo-Celtic
12-12-2017, 09:02 AM
Only if people in Cape Fear matched the DNA algorithm. The signal may be too dispersed and that colony is quite a bit older than the movements to Canada.

They likely don't even have a sample large enough to be useful. I'm not sure about the current population demographics in Cape Fear, but it was a destination for the Highland Scottish (for those who don't know).

Nqp15hhu
12-12-2017, 10:09 AM
I'd prefer if Canada wasn't included in the Scottish Genetic Community to be honest. It's not part of Scotland and most people with Scottish ancestry won't be Canadian.

Teutorigos
01-04-2018, 05:14 AM
Hello, my only Genetic Community is Ulster Irish my ethnicity breakdown is 52% Ireland, Scotland, Wales, 37% British, and 6% Scandinavian etc... As you likely know there has always been movement between Scotland and Ulster since at least the DalRiada days. I dunno if Genetic Communities is out of beta, yet, but I know of one Irish guy, here, who is more Celtic and less British etc... Who gets two genetic communities one in Southern England and one in Ulster.

Here are my Eurogenes k13 results --keep in mind anything 5 and under is related and one can pass as a native of those populations :


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 3.849845
2 Orcadian @ 4.409239
3 West_Scottish @ 4.822096
4 Southwest_English @ 5.392644
5 North_Dutch @ 5.45871

k13 is the most accurate calculator for most people of European descent and apparently I can pass as a native of both populations. I have been mistaken for Scottish more than once. It may be the people of Ulster and West Scotland are too closely related for AncestryDNA to differentiate currently.

Cheers!

greerpalmer
01-04-2018, 04:39 PM
'Central Scotland & Ulster, Ireland' pretty much covers it if you look at the map. It's the one I'm in.

I would agree-- there are actually 5 Ulster Irish communities and "Central Scotland and Ulster, Ireland" is not one as it falls under Scotland, not Ireland. The communities aren't perfect-- even the Irish ones say members come from Ireland/Scotland/Wales and Great Britain because migration & mixing was so common.

Anglo-Celtic
01-06-2018, 12:18 AM
Hello, my only Genetic Community is Ulster Irish my ethnicity breakdown is 52% Ireland, Scotland, Wales, 37% British, and 6% Scandinavian etc... As you likely know there has always been movement between Scotland and Ulster since at least the DalRiada days. I dunno if Genetic Communities is out of beta, yet, but I know of one Irish guy, here, who is more Celtic and less British etc... Who gets two genetic communities one in Southern England and one in Ulster.

Here are my Eurogenes k13 results --keep in mind anything 5 and under is related and one can pass as a native of those populations :


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 3.849845
2 Orcadian @ 4.409239
3 West_Scottish @ 4.822096
4 Southwest_English @ 5.392644
5 North_Dutch @ 5.45871

k13 is the most accurate calculator for most people of European descent and apparently I can pass as a native of both populations. I have been mistaken for Scottish more than once. It may be the people of Ulster and West Scotland are too closely related for AncestryDNA to differentiate currently.

Cheers!

Thanks for that. It looks like there certainly is a definite genetic connection. Maybe I'll do some shorthand and see Ulster Irish and Southwest Scottish as the same ethnicity. You have to make such adjustments for genetic test labeling.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
01-06-2018, 04:30 PM
Strathclyde Welsh (Briton) history. Quite a few people get SW Scotland as a LivingDNA region with no known ancestry there.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjLn_Se4MPYAhWP2KQKHdJpBBEQFgg0MAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fskyelander.orgfree.com%2Fstrathcl yde.html&usg=AOvVaw1-1ZTc7Q3YPEq7W2Fzn4Y5

Anglo-Celtic
01-07-2018, 11:48 PM
Strathclyde Welsh (Briton) history. Quite a few people get SW Scotland as a LivingDNA region with no known ancestry there.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjLn_Se4MPYAhWP2KQKHdJpBBEQFgg0MAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fskyelander.orgfree.com%2Fstrathcl yde.html&usg=AOvVaw1-1ZTc7Q3YPEq7W2Fzn4Y5

What a great site! You wonder if the people, in southwest Scotland, have appreciable links to both Dalriada and Strathclyde. I realize that the former wasn't in the exact same region, but it's close enough to have had some impact. It could be that the people, in that region, have two "Celtic strains".

Emilio Delfin Vang B
01-11-2019, 08:23 PM
The Scottish DNA is closer to the Iberian

ADW_1981
01-11-2019, 09:16 PM
I again looked at the categories. The groupings and labels seemed quite arbitrary and convoluted. For example, it was strange that areas in Canada were included with Highlanders. I understand that they were emigrants to parts of Canada, but one could make the same argument for the inclusion of Cape Fear.

There are definitely many old rural Scottish communities/towns in Ontario, Canada I can attest to that.

ADW_1981
01-11-2019, 09:17 PM
The Scottish DNA is closer to the Iberian

No evidence for that. If anything Scottish is closer to English than Irish (which is more isolated) as many lowlanders, including some Scottish heroes were of Norman, and through earlier ancestry, English ancestry.

Nqp15hhu
01-11-2019, 09:26 PM
Think it depends on the region in Scotland. It would be good to see an aggregate of Scottish people.

Emilio Delfin Vang B
01-11-2019, 09:36 PM
Sure the south is different than the north of Scotland

Nqp15hhu
01-11-2019, 09:41 PM
Probably more south east. West of Carlisle is no more than 50 miles from Northern Ireland.

Emilio Delfin Vang B
01-11-2019, 09:44 PM
Yes, is not the same if you go to other part, for example Scotland has a lot of red hair people and if you go to the cities is mix the people between the Scottish

Nqp15hhu
04-23-2019, 08:39 AM
Any chance of a future update to Scottish GCs?

Verity
04-23-2019, 11:46 PM
My Eurogenes K13:

Population (source) Distance
1 Irish 3.25
2 Orcadian 3.8
3 North_Dutch 3.86
4 West_Scottish 4.38
5 Danish 4.42

I do come out as having more Irish than West Scottish on this. I have Northern English/Northwest Scottish ancestry, with no known Irish. But my English ancestry covers the ancient area of Northumbria and Cumbria (both close to Scotland), as well as Yorkshire.

aafusc2988
04-24-2019, 01:07 PM
I'm not Scottish at all from what I know, below are my AncestryDNA and 23andMe Eurogenes K13s:

AncestryDNA (earlier post mentioned 5 and below could pass as native so I posted all results below 5):
1 Orcadian 3.48
2 North_Dutch 3.94
3 Irish 3.95
4 Southeast_English 4.27
5 Danish 4.31
6 West_Scottish 4.66
7 Southwest_English 4.67
8 North_German 4.92

23andMe (posted top 8 since AncestryDNA had 8 areas below 5):
1 South_Dutch 4.57
2 West_German 5.3
3 North_German 6.41
4 Southeast_English 6.49
5 Orcadian 6.9
6 North_Dutch 7.18
7 Southwest_English 7.29
8 Danish 7.4