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Dibran
12-17-2017, 05:24 PM
Is anyone familiar with R1a1a1b1a1b1~2 - L1029 - L388?


Only one thing came up in Google search. Supposedly a rare private SNP. I just ran my AncestryDNA into morely ydna predictor, so Idk how accurate this usually is. Currently testing Full Genomes, and no call for M458 with LivingDNA, and predicted M458 - YP515 on R1a Project.

Dibran
12-17-2017, 06:43 PM
BUMP BUMP

lgmayka
12-17-2017, 07:00 PM
The standard position for L388 on the haplotree is on the same level as L389, in the R1b haplogroup (https://yfull.com/tree/R-L389/). However, L388 recurs in several other places on the tree, including within R-YP263 (https://yfull.com/tree/R-YP263/).

Dibran
12-17-2017, 07:08 PM
The standard position for L388 on the haplotree is on the same level as L389, in the R1b haplogroup (https://yfull.com/tree/R-L389/). However, L388 recurs in several other places on the tree, including within R-YP263 (https://yfull.com/tree/R-YP263/).

So what does it mean? are the countries in the link the most common places the mutation is found?

Judging by the distribution of these downstream mutations and their modern representations I would say Varangian no?(considering I am from the Balkans) Gothic?

Dibran
12-17-2017, 07:36 PM
Is AncestryDNA morely predictor usually accurate? Many of my matches from Germany and northern Europe are L1029. but it seems I match them at the Y12 level. So, Idk if that means I may not be L1029.

Dibran
12-18-2017, 12:10 AM
Bump.....

Dibran
12-18-2017, 01:14 PM
bumppp lolol

Brent.B
01-07-2018, 06:13 PM
So what does it mean? are the countries in the link the most common places the mutation is found?

Judging by the distribution of these downstream mutations and their modern representations I would say Varangian no?(considering I am from the Balkans) Gothic?

Genetic mutations are random in nature. When two individuals have a set of matching SNP markers, that means one of two things: their common ancestor had the mutation, and passed it on to his descendants, or the mutation arose independently in both cases.

It appears that this L388 sample arose independently from the R1b-L389 group.

Jan_Noack
02-06-2018, 08:00 AM
Is anyone familiar with R1a1a1b1a1b1~2 - L1029 - L388?


Only one thing came up in Google search. Supposedly a rare private SNP. I just ran my AncestryDNA into morely ydna predictor, so Idk how accurate this usually is. Currently testing Full Genomes, and no call for M458 with LivingDNA, and predicted M458 - YP515 on R1a Project.

I ran my father's atDNA test from ancestry thru Morley and got L1029. In his YSTR37 on FTDNA they placed him almost certainly at CTS11129 . He is from Brandenburg/Silesia area (now Poland), and does have Slavic facial features (cheekbones). He doesn't match anyone on FTDNA at YSTR37, but a lot on STR12 markers(which I think is meaningless!!). I notices your BigY did not place you at present part L1029 (that's what I expected with my father). tested my husband on Big Y at he is R1b ..I thought he'd get further down the tree but no matches on YSTR67, YSTR111 or BigY at any level and only placed fairly high up in the tree. The Morley predictor for him basically just said... "Are you sure you have got this right?" and they couldn't place him at all on the R1B project even with Y111 markers. I much prefer the R1a grouping! anyway for my Dad the Morley predictor seems reasonable.

JoeyP37
07-03-2018, 01:51 PM
I ran mine through Morley and got L1029 as well...my first male-line ancestor born in America was John Sellers, born in 1864 in the city of Chicago, with both his parents (listed on the US Census records 1910; my great-grandfather was 17 at the time) listed as having been born in Germany. He was my great-great-grandfather, in the male line. On Wegene they tested me as being YP 445, a subclade of L1029. According to some research I have done on some genealogical websites, John's dad may have been a Joseph Sellers, born in 1836 in Wurttemberg, Germany, who came to America in 1860 and settled in Chicago. I'm thinking perhaps, as YP 445's parent YP 444 arose in Germany between the Elbe and Oder rivers, it was picked up by the Suevi when they were there and taken down to Swabia, which is basically coterminous with Wurttemberg except for a small part belonging to Bavaria.

Dibran
07-08-2018, 03:20 AM
I ran my father's atDNA test from ancestry thru Morley and got L1029. In his YSTR37 on FTDNA they placed him almost certainly at CTS11129 . He is from Brandenburg/Silesia area (now Poland), and does have Slavic facial features (cheekbones). He doesn't match anyone on FTDNA at YSTR37, but a lot on STR12 markers(which I think is meaningless!!). I notices your BigY did not place you at present part L1029 (that's what I expected with my father). tested my husband on Big Y at he is R1b ..I thought he'd get further down the tree but no matches on YSTR67, YSTR111 or BigY at any level and only placed fairly high up in the tree. The Morley predictor for him basically just said... "Are you sure you have got this right?" and they couldn't place him at all on the R1B project even with Y111 markers. I much prefer the R1a grouping! anyway for my Dad the Morley predictor seems reasonable.


I ran mine through Morley and got L1029 as well...my first male-line ancestor born in America was John Sellers, born in 1864 in the city of Chicago, with both his parents (listed on the US Census records 1910; my great-grandfather was 17 at the time) listed as having been born in Germany. He was my great-great-grandfather, in the male line. On Wegene they tested me as being YP 445, a subclade of L1029. According to some research I have done on some genealogical websites, John's dad may have been a Joseph Sellers, born in 1836 in Wurttemberg, Germany, who came to America in 1860 and settled in Chicago. I'm thinking perhaps, as YP 445's parent YP 444 arose in Germany between the Elbe and Oder rivers, it was picked up by the Suevi when they were there and taken down to Swabia, which is basically coterminous with Wurttemberg except for a small part belonging to Bavaria.

So I did a Full Genomes test. I was confirmed basal L1029* negative downstream. Morely was correct in predicting L1029 but incorrect in YP263. I actually have a new founder effect that may occur upstream or beside YP263, which could explain the placement by Morely predictor. L1029* YP263, among a few other clusters, fall into M458 B-Western Clusters. These clusters are most diverse and common in Germany and Poland. Most German L1029 falls in B-Western. In the Balkans(where I am from) B-Western clusters are quite rare, but are found among Romanians, Bulgarians, Macedonians and Greeks. Despite having large amounts of M458, Bulgarian M458 falls mostly into B-Eastern Cluster which is YP417(and downstream clades) and YP515. B-Western clusters only make up 7% of total Bulgarian R1a. that number drops when factoring in other haplogroups so its rather minimal in the Balkans. Perhaps due to East Germanics atypically speaking(given the overlap with Proto-Balts/Proto-Slavs).

For instance, all L1029 found in Scandinavians and the British Isles is predominantly B-Western clusters like YP263, YP4444/5 etc. Perhaps in the case of Scandinavians its an assimilated Slavic Pirate that moved with the heathen armies into the Britsh Isles etc.

The middle ages were very turbulent so nothing is set in stone. Most Polish M458 is L260. 25 percent of it is L1029. Of which most falls in B-Eastern clusters. B-Western is most common and diversified in Germans. If it did arrive with early middle ages Slavs, in the case of German this cluster could have developed with them and moved up from Denmark to other Scandinavian countries.

It is hard to be certain. My founder effect only has Albanians in it and our cluster is so far(still testing other novel SNPs) 1350ypb. Which means it joined Albanian clans around 600-650AD. That could always change with newer matches depending if they go back further. My relation to other L1029 is back to 2000-2300ypb. My closest of the distant matches after Albanians are mostly Germans, Scandinavians, Poles, Finns, and Circassians. A few Estonians, Hungarians and so on. There is still no pre-500AD/Late Iron Age ADNA for L1029 or M458 for that matter, so we won't know with absolute certainty with whom it originated until such discovery is made.

All we have currently is well educated guesses off of modern DNA results(which is not necessarily indicative of the truth during the middle ages).

Brent.B
07-13-2018, 01:03 AM
So I did a Full Genomes test. I was confirmed basal L1029* negative downstream. Morely was correct in predicting L1029 but incorrect in YP263. I actually have a new founder effect that may occur upstream or beside YP263, which could explain the placement by Morely predictor. L1029* YP263, among a few other clusters, fall into M458 B-Western Clusters. These clusters are most diverse and common in Germany and Poland. Most German L1029 falls in B-Western. In the Balkans(where I am from) B-Western clusters are quite rare, but are found among Romanians, Bulgarians, Macedonians and Greeks. Despite having large amounts of M458, Bulgarian M458 falls mostly into B-Eastern Cluster which is YP417(and downstream clades) and YP515. B-Western clusters only make up 7% of total Bulgarian R1a. that number drops when factoring in other haplogroups so its rather minimal in the Balkans. Perhaps due to East Germanics atypically speaking(given the overlap with Proto-Balts/Proto-Slavs).

For instance, all L1029 found in Scandinavians and the British Isles is predominantly B-Western clusters like YP263, YP4444/5 etc. Perhaps in the case of Scandinavians its an assimilated Slavic Pirate that moved with the heathen armies into the Britsh Isles etc.

The middle ages were very turbulent so nothing is set in stone. Most Polish M458 is L260. 25 percent of it is L1029. Of which most falls in B-Eastern clusters. B-Western is most common and diversified in Germans. If it did arrive with early middle ages Slavs, in the case of German this cluster could have developed with them and moved up from Denmark to other Scandinavian countries.

It is hard to be certain. My founder effect only has Albanians in it and our cluster is so far(still testing other novel SNPs) 1350ypb. Which means it joined Albanian clans around 600-650AD. That could always change with newer matches depending if they go back further. My relation to other L1029 is back to 2000-2300ypb. My closest of the distant matches after Albanians are mostly Germans, Scandinavians, Poles, Finns, and Circassians. A few Estonians, Hungarians and so on. There is still no pre-500AD/Late Iron Age ADNA for L1029 or M458 for that matter, so we won't know with absolute certainty with whom it originated until such discovery is made.

All we have currently is well educated guesses off of modern DNA results(which is not necessarily indicative of the truth during the middle ages).

If I am not mistaken, you are kit B188498?

If so, you are not L1029* (according to the R1a1a and subclades project), but rather L1029>FGC72553*. YP263 is a subclade of FGC72553, making your (yet undiscovered) subclade a "brother" of YP263.

And I believe you are mistaken/confused about ''M458 B-Western Clusters'' (or maybe I am.... could you elaborate where you heard about this or what you mean by it?). M458 is the parent of L1029 and L260, and both subclades can be found across central and eastern Europe (L260 seems to be more concentrated in Poland).

Also, most L1029 found in the British isles belongs to L1029>(FGC66323)>YP4647>YP4653>YP4648 (TMRCA about 1500-1100 years ago). I believe there is only one L1029>FGC72553>YP263 sample in the British isles (Southern Ireland).There is also a L1029>YP619>YP444>BY30084>YP443>YP445 sample that can be found in England.I believe there are a few other kits too, but they haven't had SNP testing.

Dibran
07-21-2018, 04:26 AM
If I am not mistaken, you are kit B188498?

If so, you are not L1029* (according to the R1a1a and subclades project), but rather L1029>FGC72553*. YP263 is a subclade of FGC72553, making your (yet undiscovered) subclade a "brother" of YP263.

And I believe you are mistaken/confused about ''M458 B-Western Clusters'' (or maybe I am.... could you elaborate where you heard about this or what you mean by it?). M458 is the parent of L1029 and L260, and both subclades can be found across central and eastern Europe (L260 seems to be more concentrated in Poland).

Also, most L1029 found in the British isles belongs to L1029>(FGC66323)>YP4647>YP4653>YP4648 (TMRCA about 1500-1100 years ago). I believe there is only one L1029>FGC72553>YP263 sample in the British isles (Southern Ireland).There is also a L1029>YP619>YP444>BY30084>YP443>YP445 sample that can be found in England.I believe there are a few other kits too, but they haven't had SNP testing.

Incorrect actually. My placement in the R1a project is theoretical. FGC72553 is very unstable/problematic. So much so that fullgenomes and even Yfull places me in basal L1029*. They do not use that SNP as it’s unreliable.

The only thing that would confirm FTDNA placement is having my match tested for my novels to define our founder clade. Whereby, Yfull was kind enough to take the list of my positive SNPs and create a branch on the tree. It may very well occur beside YP263 but probably not upstream of it. Still too early to tell for certain. I should know more hopefully in a month or so.

Read Vaydas blog, B-Western clusters are defined as those dominant clades of L1029 and downstream that are most prevalent in central and Western Europe. Doesn’t necessarily negate its classification due to appearance further east. Rather, it occurs dominantly in central and Eastern Europe. All L1029 in Scandinavia and the British Isles predominantly falls in B western. All the clades you mention in your last paragraph are part of B-Western. Also L260 is similarly split into A-Western and A-Eastern. B Eastern are those clusters which are more prevalent in East central and Eastern Europe including the Balkans, such as Romania and Bulgaria. These refer to YP417 and downstream clades including YP515 under M458.

The overwhelming majority of L1029 in east and southeast Europe is B-Eastern. 35 percent of Bulgarian L1029 is B-Western however. Majority of L1029 in Greeks is also B-Western(YP263) and some B-Eastern(YP417).

This includes their subsequent downstream clades as well. Which is why I theoretically attached B-Western to Goths/Maccromani that were Balts absorbed into Gothic movements. There are some new theories suggesting Proto Slavic was actually Proto-Baltic that developed into Proto Slavic when it went further south east.

YP417 could then possibly be Antes/Sklaveni whilst B western clusters especially basal L1029 were Gothic/Macromanni/Vistula Veneti and in the case of the British Isles perhaps some are Saxon. They did afterall control a trade route in the Baltic. So if the theory is to be believed that L1029 originated between the Elbe and the Oder it could have split into varying directions with different tribes.

Brent.B
09-08-2018, 01:21 AM
I'm not familiar with Vaydas or his/her blog, but I will check it out. Who is Vaydas? Does he/she have a background in genetics?

Dibran
09-11-2018, 02:18 PM
I'm not familiar with Vaydas or his/her blog, but I will check it out. Who is Vaydas? Does he/she have a background in genetics?

Not sure what their background in genetics is, but they have compiled the most up to date data as of February 2018 for both R1a and I2a-Din. Its a guy as far as I know.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle