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englishrosesinapril
12-19-2017, 01:45 AM
Hello,

I'm wondering if someone can help me interpret my DNA results. My mother and I both recently tested through Ancestry and were surprised with the high amount of Scandinavian DNA. I've hit a brick wall when it comes to my mom's paternal grandmother's line, so it's possible there is some sort of Scandinavian heritage there, but I'm curious if our high results are possible coming only from this one line. Ancestry listed my Scandinavian as 27% (range of 6-48%) and my mother's as 52% (range of 31-71%).

Most of my mother's family tree is well-documented as coming from Berlin in 1739 and then immigrated to Pennsylvania before coming to Canada, English and Irish and one Native American ancestor from 1815. The missing gap would be her paternal grandmother's father's line, but I do know they lived in Virginia and likely had deep roots there. I've been able to dig up her birth certificate, which lists her parents' surnames as Gill and Perkinson, but that's as far back as I've gotten there.

My mother and I have matched with a few people on ancestry that do have a high number of Scandinavian surnames in their trees, but no common ancestor that we've been able to discern. One match in particular that has a very high number of Scandinavian names points the generation value between my mother and them at 4.2. There have been several cousin matches legitimizing family lines, including my grandfather, so no NPE that I can find.

Here are the Ancestry results:
Scandinavia 52% (31-71%)
Great Britain 22% (0-49%)
Europe South- 10% (0-21%)
Ireland/Scotland/Wales 6% (0-16%)
Iberian Peninsula 6% (0-15%)
Native American 1% (0-2%)
Africa North <1% (0-2%)
Finland/Northwest Russia <1% (0-3%)
Asia South <1% (0-2%)
Europe West <1% - Your DNA shows that you have ancestry from Europe West and links you to these specific regions: Southern States Settlers and Tennessee and Southern States Settlers.

Her GEDmatch kit number: A057123 (mine is A560736)

Here are my mother's Gedmatch results from the Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 38.71
2 Atlantic 24.22
3 West_Med 9.42
4 Eastern_Euro 7.97
5 Baltic 7.16
6 East_Med 5.51
7 West_Asian 3.38
8 Amerindian 2.30

Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_German at 7.110915
2 Orcadian at 7.721382
3 Southwest_English at 7.974262
4 Southeast_English at 8.001391
5 North_Dutch at 8.119398
6 Danish at 8.616228
7 West_Scottish at 9.094445
8 West_Norwegian at 9.295391
9 Norwegian at 9.349370
10 Irish at 9.541336
11 South_Dutch at 10.480160
12 North_German at 10.700602
13 Swedish at 11.153094
14 French at 13.000368
15 North_Swedish at 14.348869
16 East_German at 17.798307
17 Southwest_Finnish at 21.162668
18 Spanish_Galicia at 21.195934
19 Hungarian at 21.529179
20 Spanish_Cataluna at 22.066292

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +50% West_German at 4.592836


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +25% West_German +25% West_German at 4.592836


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Orcadian + Orcadian + West_German + West_German at 4.592836
2 Orcadian + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian at 4.707732
3 French + Orcadian + West_German + West_Norwegian at 5.018607
4 Southeast_English + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian at 5.086792
5 Orcadian + West_German + West_German + West_Scottish at 5.101473
6 Norwegian + Orcadian + West_German + West_German at 5.115989
7 Orcadian + Southeast_English + West_German + West_German at 5.121115
8 French + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.133817
9 Spanish_Murcia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.147927
10 West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish at 5.164662
11 Southwest_English + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian at 5.176528
12 Orcadian + Portuguese + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.179258
13 North_Dutch + Orcadian + West_German + West_German at 5.191581
14 Spanish_Extremadura + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.220688
15 Portuguese + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.224797
16 North_Italian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.226709
17 Orcadian + West_German + West_German + West_German at 5.228301
18 Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_German + West_German at 5.231803
19 Orcadian + Spanish_Galicia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.234926
20 Danish + Orcadian + West_German + West_German at 5.246128

Seeing these results, as well as the results from Ancestry, are we safe to assume there must be a fairly recent Scandinavian ancestor lurking in our lineage somewhere, or is this just Ancestry's inflated Scandinavian results? Is it possible this could be a misinterpretation of the German, English and Irish ancestry we have documented?

I guess the real question I have is how likely it is that we truly have an ancestor or ancestors that are authentically Scandinavian?

therrien.joel
12-19-2017, 01:58 AM
Checking your mom's kit number on the one-to-many matches for emails ending in .no, .se or .fi did not show any hits. It's a bit crude, but for myself I get a lot of hits for the .fi and of course a lot of Finnish surnames, so I know it's a quick but effective check.

timberwolf
12-19-2017, 02:01 AM
Checking your mom's kit number on the one-to-many matches for emails ending in .no, .se or .fi did not show any hits. It's a bit crude, but for myself I get a lot of hits for the .fi and of course a lot of Finnish surnames, so I know it's a quick but effective check.

Thanks for that, that is a really good way to sort through matches.

mwauthy
12-19-2017, 02:07 AM
Hello,

I'm wondering if someone can help me interpret my DNA results. My mother and I both recently tested through Ancestry and were surprised with the high amount of Scandinavian DNA. I've hit a brick wall when it comes to my mom's paternal grandmother's line, so it's possible there is some sort of Scandinavian heritage there, but I'm curious if our high results are possible coming only from this one line. Ancestry listed my Scandinavian as 27% (range of 6-48%) and my mother's as 52% (range of 31-71%).

Most of my mother's family tree is well-documented as coming from Berlin in 1739 and then immigrated to Pennsylvania before coming to Canada, English and Irish and one Native American ancestor from 1815. The missing gap would be her paternal grandmother's father's line, but I do know they lived in Virginia and likely had deep roots there. I've been able to dig up her birth certificate, which lists her parents' surnames as Gill and Perkinson, but that's as far back as I've gotten there.

My mother and I have matched with a few people on ancestry that do have a high number of Scandinavian surnames in their trees, but no common ancestor that we've been able to discern. One match in particular that has a very high number of Scandinavian names points the generation value between my mother and them at 4.2. There have been several cousin matches legitimizing family lines, including my grandfather, so no NPE that I can find.

Here are the Ancestry results:
Scandinavia 52% (31-71%)
Great Britain 22% (0-49%)
Europe South- 10% (0-21%)
Ireland/Scotland/Wales 6% (0-16%)
Iberian Peninsula 6% (0-15%)
Native American 1% (0-2%)
Africa North <1% (0-2%)
Finland/Northwest Russia <1% (0-3%)
Asia South <1% (0-2%)
Europe West <1% - Your DNA shows that you have ancestry from Europe West and links you to these specific regions: Southern States Settlers and Tennessee and Southern States Settlers.

Her GEDmatch kit number: A057123 (mine is A560736)

Here are my mother's Gedmatch results from the Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 38.71
2 Atlantic 24.22
3 West_Med 9.42
4 Eastern_Euro 7.97
5 Baltic 7.16
6 East_Med 5.51
7 West_Asian 3.38
8 Amerindian 2.30

Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_German at 7.110915
2 Orcadian at 7.721382
3 Southwest_English at 7.974262
4 Southeast_English at 8.001391
5 North_Dutch at 8.119398
6 Danish at 8.616228
7 West_Scottish at 9.094445
8 West_Norwegian at 9.295391
9 Norwegian at 9.349370
10 Irish at 9.541336
11 South_Dutch at 10.480160
12 North_German at 10.700602
13 Swedish at 11.153094
14 French at 13.000368
15 North_Swedish at 14.348869
16 East_German at 17.798307
17 Southwest_Finnish at 21.162668
18 Spanish_Galicia at 21.195934
19 Hungarian at 21.529179
20 Spanish_Cataluna at 22.066292

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +50% West_German at 4.592836


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +25% West_German +25% West_German at 4.592836


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Orcadian + Orcadian + West_German + West_German at 4.592836
2 Orcadian + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian at 4.707732
3 French + Orcadian + West_German + West_Norwegian at 5.018607
4 Southeast_English + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian at 5.086792
5 Orcadian + West_German + West_German + West_Scottish at 5.101473
6 Norwegian + Orcadian + West_German + West_German at 5.115989
7 Orcadian + Southeast_English + West_German + West_German at 5.121115
8 French + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.133817
9 Spanish_Murcia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.147927
10 West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish at 5.164662
11 Southwest_English + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian at 5.176528
12 Orcadian + Portuguese + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.179258
13 North_Dutch + Orcadian + West_German + West_German at 5.191581
14 Spanish_Extremadura + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.220688
15 Portuguese + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.224797
16 North_Italian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.226709
17 Orcadian + West_German + West_German + West_German at 5.228301
18 Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_German + West_German at 5.231803
19 Orcadian + Spanish_Galicia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian at 5.234926
20 Danish + Orcadian + West_German + West_German at 5.246128

Seeing these results, as well as the results from Ancestry, are we safe to assume there must be a fairly recent Scandinavian ancestor lurking in our lineage somewhere, or is this just Ancestry's inflated Scandinavian results? Is it possible this could be a misinterpretation of the German, English and Irish ancestry we have documented?

I guess the real question I have is how likely it is that we truly have an ancestor or ancestors that are authentically Scandinavian?

You have <1% Europe West which is where your German Ancestors could have been assigned according to the maps. Instead, they got assigned to either Great Britain or Scandinavia. There are a lot of overlapping alleles for these three categories because of cross migrations over the millennia. Having a high Scandinavian score does not necessarily mean a recent ancestor born in that region. It just means that your ancestors from Berlin are genetically similar to the some of the reference samples used for Scandinavia.

englishrosesinapril
12-19-2017, 02:26 AM
Checking your mom's kit number on the one-to-many matches for emails ending in .no, .se or .fi did not show any hits. It's a bit crude, but for myself I get a lot of hits for the .fi and of course a lot of Finnish surnames, so I know it's a quick but effective check.

That's a great tip, thanks for mentioning that. I didn't think to look for email address origins. So I guess I'm safe to say that whatever true Scandinavian DNA the GEDmatch tests are picking up must be more ancient as opposed to modern, ie Viking?

englishrosesinapril
12-19-2017, 02:27 AM
I suppose that makes sense when you look at where Berlin is geographically. I so wish we had the technology to truly know what is what definitively, but I guess history had other ideas.

timberwolf
12-19-2017, 02:47 AM
Looking through Gedmatch genesis I seem to have quite a few German and French matches. I have my doubts.

englishrosesinapril
12-19-2017, 03:36 AM
Looking through Gedmatch genesis I seem to have quite a few German and French matches. I have my doubts.

So you'd agree that it's most likely the Northern German is just being expressed as Scandinavian then?

therrien.joel
12-19-2017, 04:07 AM
Most likely. It's important to remember that these calculators are working a bit like someone with a pile of colored tiles. The exact number and colors of the tiles restrict what mural you can make, but they don't narrow it down to just one. But if you use multiple calculators and they show a pattern, then you have a better chance that they are giving you a hint. But even still, it is hard often to say if the source is modern or ancient.

timberwolf
12-19-2017, 04:15 AM
So you'd agree that it's most likely the Northern German is just being expressed as Scandinavian then?

I just went on email addresses, I have a few that were .de and .fr

In my case, my paper trail, is completely Brit and Irish back to the 18th century. It is o'course possible, that I have made a error somewhere, and there is the family rumor of Huguenot ancestry, but even if that is the case, it would be about 7-10 generations back.

Bearing in mind that Ancestry states their estimate is thousands of years ago, it may be your Scandinavian is reflecting ancient ancestry. For example my Europe West is 28%, without anyone from that region on my paper trail.

Best thing you can possibly do, is try and find a common ancestor with your matches, until then be skeptical.

Good luck

timberwolf
12-19-2017, 04:23 AM
So you'd agree that it's most likely the Northern German is just being expressed as Scandinavian then?

Another thing to consider is there were Swedish troops in what is now Northern Germany during the thirty years war. It is possible some of them, may have stayed and raised families, Just a another thought to think about as a possibility?

therrien.joel
12-19-2017, 07:08 PM
I just went on email addresses, I have a few that were .de and .fr

In my case, my paper trail, is completely Brit and Irish back to the 18th century. It is o'course possible, that I have made a error somewhere, and there is the family rumor of Huguenot ancestry, but even if that is the case, it would be about 7-10 generations back.

Bearing in mind that Ancestry states their estimate is thousands of years ago, it may be your Scandinavian is reflecting ancient ancestry. For example my Europe West is 28%, without anyone from that region on my paper trail.

Best thing you can possibly do, is try and find a common ancestor with your matches, until then be skeptical.

Good luck

The caveat to using the email filtering is that you'd need to see a lot of hits in order to be more sure. Case in point, if I search long and hard through my one-to-many matches I will (did) find a person with an obviously Vietnamese name. How was this so? Well, checking their admixture on the Harrapaworld calculator showed they had one parent that had to be of European descent (presumably the mother). So, finding a few hits in countries that have had a lot of immigration makes it more likely that the hits you are finding are better evidence that the other person has ancestors from your location, not the other way around.

timberwolf
12-19-2017, 07:21 PM
Yes, totally agree

In the case of non British/Irish matches I look at their admixture, and also who they are related to. If I see an obvious Anglo name, then I conclude, that the connection is far more likely to someone from that part of the world, then France or Germany, Spain etc.

I would be pretty confident that at some stage I have non Brit ancestry, just not in the last 200 years.

FionnSneachta
12-19-2017, 08:20 PM
My dad had a match with .de in the email. He is 5.1 generations away. His admixture is Austrian on Eurogenes. I looked at our shared matches. They are North German, South Dutch, South Dutch, Orcadian, West German, Southwest English, Southeast English and North Swedish. Does it look like it's probably a common English ancestor from this?

There is also match that is 4.6 generations away that is Norwegian. Our shared matches are North Swedish, North Dutch, Swedish, Southwest English, Orcadian, Irish, Norwegian and North Swedish. There's actually an Irish match in that list.

I have a North Swedish match of distance 5.2 but we have no shared matches.

I have another Swedish match of distance 5.2. We have shared matches that are South Dutch, South Dutch and North Swedish.

I have another Swedish match of distance 5.1. We have shared matches that are Southwest English, Southeast English and Orcadian. That seems like it could be a common English ancestor.

englishrosesinapril
12-20-2017, 06:05 PM
You have <1% Europe West which is where your German Ancestors could have been assigned according to the maps. Instead, they got assigned to either Great Britain or Scandinavia. There are a lot of overlapping alleles for these three categories because of cross migrations over the millennia. Having a high Scandinavian score does not necessarily mean a recent ancestor born in that region. It just means that your ancestors from Berlin are genetically similar to the some of the reference samples used for Scandinavia.

Thanks for clarifying that for me. I'm definitely going to delve more into the history books and research this topic to gain a better understanding.

JerryS.
12-24-2017, 05:16 AM
I wonder why Ancestry shows you with 10% southern (Italy/Greece) but Eurogenes doesn't show you with any.

msmarjoribanks
12-24-2017, 02:26 PM
Have you put your results on Gedmatch and looked at it there?

The problem is that for a lot of these results it's really hard to tell them apart, especially if we are talking about mixed backgrounds. Ancestry way overstates my own Scandinavian (if we are talking recent) -- I get 28% (same as you?), even though my known (and only recent) Scandinavian is one great-grandmother who was Swedish. I didn't test my mom on Ancestry, so can't compare that, but when I tested on FTDNA and moved the results to Gedmatch and MyHeritage, none of the others gave me such high results. Ancestry also almost ignores my English ancestry (which is probably over 50%) and sticks it in Western Europe and (I assume) Scandinavian. Since I have a lot of English, a significant amount of German and Scandinavian, and a bit of Dutch (among other things), I'm sure it's hard to sort out, and I've heard Ancestry often overestimates Scandinavian.

greerpalmer
01-02-2018, 10:50 PM
I wouldn't get too worked up on the Scandinavian numbers from AncestryDNA--they have a bias that's been discussed on these forums before. I'm predominately English (Cornish/Scottish), Irish & German and receive an estimated 33% (10-54%) Scandinavian on ancestry. I get 2.5% from 23andMe & 1.7% on livingDNA. I think Ancestry misinterprets my high Scottish-Lower Saxony-Pomeranian roots. I do consistently get trace Baltic/Eastern European/Finno-Russian on services which could somehow combine with my actual Scandinavian, but still no where near enough to make 10%, let alone 33%.