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View Full Version : Afyonkarahisar, Emirdag Alevi DNA results



MustafaTekin
12-19-2017, 12:23 PM
Cikan sonuc hakkinda ne dusunuyorsunuz? What do you think about the result?

1 Caucasus 36.58
2 Gedrosia 15.83
3 Atlantic_Med 12.18
4 North_European 10.23
5 Southwest_Asian 8.59
6 East_Asian 6.86
7 Siberian 5.57
8 Northwest_African 1.55
9 Southeast_Asian 1.21
10 South_Asian 1.09
11 East_African 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turks (Behar) 10.2
2 Turkish (Dodecad) 10.54
3 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 15.68
4 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 16.26
5 Iranian (Dodecad) 16.81
6 Kurd (Dodecad) 16.87
7 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 17.04
8 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 17.06
9 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 17.34
10 Iranians (Behar) 19.07
11 Lebanese (Behar) 19.31
12 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 19.87
13 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 20.73
14 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 20.86
15 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 20.93
16 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 20.96
17 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 21.29
18 Armenian (Dodecad) 21.36
19 Assyrian (Dodecad) 21.47
20 Cypriots (Behar) 21.52

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.3% Turkish (Dodecad) + 20.7% Hazara (HGDP) 3.6
2 75.6% Turkish (Dodecad) + 24.4% Uzbeks (Behar) 3.73
3 79.3% Turkish (Dodecad) + 20.7% Uygur (HGDP) 4.12
4 76.8% Turks (Behar) + 23.2% Uzbeks (Behar) 4.46
5 80.6% Turks (Behar) + 19.4% Hazara (HGDP) 4.6
6 80.5% Turks (Behar) + 19.5% Uygur (HGDP) 4.78
7 56.5% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) + 43.5% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 5.33
8 57.9% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) + 42.1% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 5.53
9 62.1% Turkish (Dodecad) + 37.9% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 5.58
10 86.5% Turkish (Dodecad) + 13.5% Altai (Rasmussen) 5.58
11 74.7% Turkish (Dodecad) + 25.3% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 5.6
12 58.7% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) + 41.3% Cypriots (Behar) 5.79
13 87.3% Turks (Behar) + 12.7% Altai (Rasmussen) 5.8
14 87.4% Turkish (Dodecad) + 12.6% Mongol (Rasmussen) 5.95
15 88% Turks (Behar) + 12% Mongol (Rasmussen) 5.99
16 56% Cypriots (Behar) + 44% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 6.31
17 58.1% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) + 41.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 6.51
18 59.7% Armenian (Dodecad) + 40.3% Uzbeks (Behar) 6.51
19 90.3% Turks (Behar) + 9.7% Mongola (HGDP) 6.52
20 89.2% Turkish (Dodecad) + 10.8% Buryat (Rasmussen) 6.54

icebreaker
12-19-2017, 05:04 PM
Sonuçlar annemin sonuçlarina yakin. Annem Emirdagli sünni. Sünni ve alevi sonucu arasinda daha fazla fark olur diye tahmin etmistim..


# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 35.96
2 Gedrosia 15.74
3 Atlantic_Med 11.73
4 North_European 11.03
5 Southwest_Asian 9.33
6 Siberian 5.91
7 East_Asian 5.74
8 South_Asian 3.33
9 Northwest_African 1.03
10 Southeast_Asian 0.12
11 East_African 0.05
12 Sub_Saharan 0.03

Buhedyar
12-31-2017, 03:23 AM
Tipik Batı Anadolu sonucu. MDLP K23b sonuçlarını da oracle ile beraber postlayabilir misiniz?

MustafaTekin
12-31-2017, 03:59 PM
Tipik Batı Anadolu sonucu. MDLP K23b sonuçlarını da oracle ile beraber postlayabilir misiniz?


Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.83
2 South_Central_Asian 15.46
3 European_Early_Farmers 8.57
4 Near_East 7.74
5 Tungus-Altaic 7.32
6 European_Hunters_Gatherers 6.92
7 North_African 4
8 Ancestral_Altaic 3.73
9 East_Siberian 2.95
10 Paleo_Siberian 2.07
11 East_African 1.65
12 South_East_Asian 1.39
13 Austronesian 0.98
14 Australoid 0.79
15 African_Pygmy 0.61

Population (source) Distance
1 Turk_Aydin ( ) 8.48
2 Turk_Adana ( ) 10.1
3 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 10.45
4 Nogai ( ) 11.63
5 Turk ( ) 12.22
6 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 12.76
7 Azeri ( ) 12.96
8 Iraki ( ) 13.61
9 Turk_Kayseri ( ) 13.84
10 Kurd_North ( ) 14.17
11 Kurd_South ( ) 14.23
12 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) 14.58
13 Stalskoe_Kumyk ( ) 14.9
14 Uzbek_Tashkent ( ) 15.24
15 Kurd_East ( ) 15.35
16 Kurd ( ) 16.29
17 Syrian_Jew ( ) 16.44
18 Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) 16.64
19 Lebanese ( ) 16.89
20 Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) 16.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.5% Turk ( ) + 25.5% Turkmen_Afghan ( ) @ 3.27
2 69.5% Turk ( ) + 30.5% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) @ 3.64
3 81.5% Turk ( ) + 18.5% Kazahs ( ) @ 3.69
4 72.1% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 27.9% Turkmen_Afghan ( ) @ 3.74
5 75.4% Turk ( ) + 24.6% Uzbek ( ) @ 3.79
6 77.6% Turk ( ) + 22.4% Karakalpak ( ) @ 3.79
7 85.3% Turk ( ) + 14.7% Hakas ( ) @ 3.82
8 80.2% Turk ( ) + 19.8% Hazara ( ) @ 3.84
9 85.4% Turk ( ) + 14.6% Altaian ( ) @ 3.96
10 80% Turk ( ) + 20% Uygur ( ) @ 3.96
11 81.5% Turk ( ) + 18.5% Kazakh ( ) @ 4.01
12 82.7% Turk ( ) + 17.3% Kyrgyz_Bishkek ( ) @ 4.01
13 75.2% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 24.8% Karakalpak ( ) @ 4.08
14 80% Turk ( ) + 20% Tatar-Siberian ( ) @ 4.09
15 81.3% Turk_Adana ( ) + 18.7% Karakalpak ( ) @ 4.1
16 79.5% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 20.5% Kazahs ( ) @ 4.13
17 83.5% Turk ( ) + 16.5% Kyrgyz ( ) @ 4.15
18 74% Turk_Adana ( ) + 26% Crimean_Tatar_Step ( ) @ 4.2
19 78.9% Turk_Adana ( ) + 21.1% Turkmen_Afghan ( ) @ 4.21
20 83.6% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 16.4% Hakas ( ) @ 4.22

Alkaevli
01-01-2018, 07:51 PM
Two Turkish Alevi samples from Pir Sultan Abdal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pir_Sultan_Abdal)'s village (Banaz/Yıldızeli/Sivas):

Daughter
https://i.hizliresim.com/V3ZY3y.png (https://hizliresim.com/V3ZY3y)

Father
https://i.hizliresim.com/V3ZYry.png (https://hizliresim.com/V3ZYry)

MustafaTekin
01-02-2018, 06:04 PM
Two Turkish Alevi samples from Pir Sultan Abdal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pir_Sultan_Abdal)'s village (Banaz/Yıldızeli/Sivas):

Daughter
https://i.hizliresim.com/V3ZY3y.png (https://hizliresim.com/V3ZY3y)

Father
https://i.hizliresim.com/V3ZYry.png (https://hizliresim.com/V3ZYry)

Banin kalkmis, ho.

Buhedyar
01-10-2018, 09:59 PM
Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.83
2 South_Central_Asian 15.46
3 European_Early_Farmers 8.57
4 Near_East 7.74
5 Tungus-Altaic 7.32
6 European_Hunters_Gatherers 6.92
7 North_African 4
8 Ancestral_Altaic 3.73
9 East_Siberian 2.95
10 Paleo_Siberian 2.07
11 East_African 1.65
12 South_East_Asian 1.39
13 Austronesian 0.98
14 Australoid 0.79
15 African_Pygmy 0.61

Population (source) Distance
1 Turk_Aydin ( ) 8.48
2 Turk_Adana ( ) 10.1
3 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 10.45
4 Nogai ( ) 11.63
5 Turk ( ) 12.22
6 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 12.76
7 Azeri ( ) 12.96
8 Iraki ( ) 13.61
9 Turk_Kayseri ( ) 13.84
10 Kurd_North ( ) 14.17
11 Kurd_South ( ) 14.23
12 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) 14.58
13 Stalskoe_Kumyk ( ) 14.9
14 Uzbek_Tashkent ( ) 15.24
15 Kurd_East ( ) 15.35
16 Kurd ( ) 16.29
17 Syrian_Jew ( ) 16.44
18 Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) 16.64
19 Lebanese ( ) 16.89
20 Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) 16.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.5% Turk ( ) + 25.5% Turkmen_Afghan ( ) @ 3.27
2 69.5% Turk ( ) + 30.5% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) @ 3.64
3 81.5% Turk ( ) + 18.5% Kazahs ( ) @ 3.69
4 72.1% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 27.9% Turkmen_Afghan ( ) @ 3.74
5 75.4% Turk ( ) + 24.6% Uzbek ( ) @ 3.79
6 77.6% Turk ( ) + 22.4% Karakalpak ( ) @ 3.79
7 85.3% Turk ( ) + 14.7% Hakas ( ) @ 3.82
8 80.2% Turk ( ) + 19.8% Hazara ( ) @ 3.84
9 85.4% Turk ( ) + 14.6% Altaian ( ) @ 3.96
10 80% Turk ( ) + 20% Uygur ( ) @ 3.96
11 81.5% Turk ( ) + 18.5% Kazakh ( ) @ 4.01
12 82.7% Turk ( ) + 17.3% Kyrgyz_Bishkek ( ) @ 4.01
13 75.2% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 24.8% Karakalpak ( ) @ 4.08
14 80% Turk ( ) + 20% Tatar-Siberian ( ) @ 4.09
15 81.3% Turk_Adana ( ) + 18.7% Karakalpak ( ) @ 4.1
16 79.5% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 20.5% Kazahs ( ) @ 4.13
17 83.5% Turk ( ) + 16.5% Kyrgyz ( ) @ 4.15
18 74% Turk_Adana ( ) + 26% Crimean_Tatar_Step ( ) @ 4.2
19 78.9% Turk_Adana ( ) + 21.1% Turkmen_Afghan ( ) @ 4.21
20 83.6% Turk_Kayseri ( ) + 16.4% Hakas ( ) @ 4.22

oracle 4 sonuçları?

MustafaTekin
01-11-2018, 07:16 PM
oracle 4 sonuçları?

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turk_Aydin_ @ 8.344967
2 Turk_ @ 8.650451
3 Turk_Adana_ @ 9.636356
4 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 10.397177
5 Turk_Kayseri_ @ 10.433186
6 Turk_Istanbul_ @ 10.619323
7 Azeri_ @ 12.884069
8 Nogai_ @ 13.744528
9 Uzbek_Tashkent_ @ 13.886518
10 Georgian_Jew_ @ 13.951072
11 Kurd_North_ @ 14.178076
12 Cirkassian_ @ 15.091519
13 Stalskoe_Kumyk_ @ 15.347198
14 Azov_Greek_ @ 15.443752
15 Kurd_South_ @ 15.529279
16 Uzbekistani_Jew_ @ 16.066477
17 Iraki_ @ 16.511831
18 Kurd_East_ @ 16.591803
19 Assyrian_Iraqi_ @ 16.738207
20 Baku_WGA_ @ 16.767511

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Nogai_ +50% Turk_Adana_ @ 4.539996


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Turk_ +25% Turk_Adana_ +25% Turkmen_Afghan_ @ 3.141945


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Karakalpak_ + Kurd_North_ + Moroccan_Jew_ + Ossetian_ @ 3.001486
2 Moroccan_Jew_ + Ossetian_ + Turk_Adana_ + Turkmen_Afghan_ @ 3.010273
3 Balkar_ + Karakalpak_ + Kurd_ + Moroccan_Jew_ @ 3.047297
4 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Karakalpak_ + Moroccan_Jew_ + Tabassaran_ @ 3.090013
5 Azeri_ + Circassian_ + Turk_Jew_ + Turkmen_Afghan_ @ 3.098726
6 Ossetian_ + Sephardic_Jew_ + Turk_Adana_ + Turkmen_Afghan_ @ 3.103810
7 Kurd_ + Moroccan_Jew_ + Nogai_ + Nogai_ @ 3.109986
8 Ossetian_ + Turk_Adana_ + Turk_Jew_ + Turkmen_Afghan_ @ 3.115054
9 Adygei_ + Karakalpak_ + Kurd_ + Moroccan_Jew_ @ 3.122847
10 Kabardin_ + Karakalpak_ + Kurd_ + Moroccan_Jew_ @ 3.123870
11 Karakalpak_ + Kurd_ + Moroccan_Jew_ + Ossetian_ @ 3.131652
12 Azeri_ + Circassian_ + Moroccan_Jew_ + Turkmen_Afghan_ @ 3.139520
13 Azeri_ + Circassian_ + Sephardic_Jew_ + Turkmen_Afghan_ @ 3.140013
14 Turk_ + Turk_ + Turk_Adana_ + Turkmen_Afghan_ @ 3.141945
15 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Kazahs_ + Lezgin_ + Moroccan_Jew_ @ 3.147129
16 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Kazahs_ + Sephardic_Jew_ + Tabassaran_ @ 3.149927
17 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Avar_ + Kazahs_ + Sephardic_Jew_ @ 3.163138
18 Armenian_ + Kazahs_ + Tabassaran_ + Tunisian_Jew_ @ 3.167317
19 Armenian_ + Avar_ + Kazahs_ + Tunisian_Jew_ @ 3.168015
20 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Kazahs_ + Moroccan_Jew_ + Tabassaran_ @ 3.170161

Theodore Gavras
01-12-2018, 03:19 PM
Selam, mldp K16 sonucunu da oracle ile beraber paylasir misin?

Dersim62
04-12-2018, 10:38 AM
Testi nerede yaptırdınız?

Caspian
04-12-2018, 11:20 AM
Two Turkish Alevi samples from Pir Sultan Abdal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pir_Sultan_Abdal)'s village (Banaz/Yıldızeli/Sivas):

Daughter
https://i.hizliresim.com/V3ZY3y.png (https://hizliresim.com/V3ZY3y)


Sivaslı Alevi ile sonuçlarımız çok yakın.

Population
Gedrosia 18.87
Siberian 4.82
Northwest_African 0.24
Southeast_Asian 1.55
Atlantic_Med 10.29
North_European 5.51
South_Asian 2.14
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 12.05
East_Asian 4.91
Caucasus 39.60
Sub_Saharan -

Sivas, Kayseri, Gaziantep gibi şehirlerden gelen sonuçların benimle olan benzerliği artık şaşırtmıyor. Azerbaycanlı bir tarihçi sülalemin 16. yüzyılda Şah İsmail zamanında, Şah İsmail'in Erzincan kurultayında Safeviler'e katılarak Anadolu'dan İran'ın Hamedan bölgesine göç eden bir Kızılbaş Türkmen boyu olduğunu, bir kaç nesil burada yaşadıktan sonra Şah Abbas zamanında kuzeye Gürcistan sınırına yerleştirildiklerini söylüyordu. Haklı gibi gözüküyor.

Afshar
04-12-2018, 11:29 AM
Sivaslı Alevi ile sonuçlarımız çok yakın.

Population
Gedrosia 18.87
Siberian 4.82
Northwest_African 0.24
Southeast_Asian 1.55
Atlantic_Med 10.29
North_European 5.51
South_Asian 2.14
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 12.05
East_Asian 4.91
Caucasus 39.60
Sub_Saharan -

Sivas, Kayseri, Gaziantep gibi şehirlerden gelen sonuçların benimle olan benzerliği artık şaşırtmıyor. Azerbaycanlı bir tarihçi sülalemin 16. yüzyılda Şah İsmail zamanında, Şah İsmail'in Erzincan kurultayında Safeviler'e katılarak Anadolu'dan İran'ın Hamedan bölgesine göç eden bir Kızılbaş Türkmen boyu olduğunu, bir kaç nesil burada yaşadıktan sonra Şah Abbas zamanında kuzeye Gürcistan sınırına yerleştirildiklerini söylüyordu. Haklı gibi gözüküyor.
Sulalenin boy/oba bilgisi varmi?

Buhedyar
04-13-2018, 05:20 PM
Sivaslı Alevi ile sonuçlarımız çok yakın.

Population
Gedrosia 18.87
Siberian 4.82
Northwest_African 0.24
Southeast_Asian 1.55
Atlantic_Med 10.29
North_European 5.51
South_Asian 2.14
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 12.05
East_Asian 4.91
Caucasus 39.60
Sub_Saharan -

Sivas, Kayseri, Gaziantep gibi şehirlerden gelen sonuçların benimle olan benzerliği artık şaşırtmıyor. Azerbaycanlı bir tarihçi sülalemin 16. yüzyılda Şah İsmail zamanında, Şah İsmail'in Erzincan kurultayında Safeviler'e katılarak Anadolu'dan İran'ın Hamedan bölgesine göç eden bir Kızılbaş Türkmen boyu olduğunu, bir kaç nesil burada yaşadıktan sonra Şah Abbas zamanında kuzeye Gürcistan sınırına yerleştirildiklerini söylüyordu. Haklı gibi gözüküyor.

Azerbaycanlıların büyük bir çoğunluğunun Türkiye kökenli olduğunu düşünüyordum ben. Çünkü Azerbaycanlıların oracle sonuçlarında genel olarak Türk+İranlı Türk+Kafkas çıkıyor. Doğu Anadolu'da da bir zamanlar Alevi/Şii Türklerin çoğunluk olduğunu düşünürsek Osmanlı-Safevi savaşları yüzünden bu Türklerin doğuya doğru göçtüğünü düşünürsek çok da mantıksız sayılmaz.

Karahisarli
10-14-2019, 04:35 PM
Nice results hemşerim

icebreaker
03-03-2020, 09:08 PM
Emirdag'dan Y-DNA sonuçlari var mi?

Eryigit
04-28-2020, 02:55 PM
Emirdag'dan Y-DNA sonuçlari var mi?

Kayınbiraderimin hablosu MorleyDNA'ye göre R1a. Henüz alt dal için test yapmadık.

Otozomal sonucu:

MDLP World
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucaus_Parsia 31.86
2 South_and_West_European 24.66
3 Middle_East 20.77
4 East_Asian 9.71
5 North_and_East_European 6.04
6 North_Asian 4.06
7 Indian 2.63
8 Mesoamerican 0.17
9 Sub_Saharian 0.09

Köy 3/4 Adayazı, 1/4 Yenikapı

icebreaker
04-28-2020, 04:01 PM
Hayirli olsun. Bugüne dek test olan Emirdaglilar hep J2a çikmisti..

J Man
04-30-2020, 02:12 AM
Hayirli olsun. Bugüne dek test olan Emirdaglilar hep J2a çikmisti..

Aslında bunu oldukça ilginç buluyorum. Türkçe konuşamadığım için İngilizce'den Google Çeviri kullanıyorum. Emirdağ'dan bir dizi Y-DNA haplogroup J2a sonucu var mı?

icebreaker
04-30-2020, 04:37 PM
Aslında bunu oldukça ilginç buluyorum. Türkçe konuşamadığım için İngilizce'den Google Çeviri kullanıyorum. Emirdağ'dan bir dizi Y-DNA haplogroup J2a sonucu var mı?

Hehe :)

I didn't collect them but I remember very well that every person who did y-dna test from this region had y-dna j2a. I'm talking about 9-10 people here.

J Man
04-30-2020, 07:24 PM
Hehe :)

I didn't collect them but I remember very well that every person who did y-dna test from this region had y-dna j2a. I'm talking about 9-10 people here.

Interesting information thank you...Are those J2a samples from Emirdag from villages there or the town? Do you know?

icebreaker
04-30-2020, 07:39 PM
Interesting information thank you...Are those J2a samples from Emirdag from villages there or the town? Do you know?

From villages iirc.

J Man
04-30-2020, 10:25 PM
From villages iirc.

Do those J2a samples belong to any FTDNA Projects or are they from an academic study/paper?

icebreaker
05-01-2020, 05:17 PM
Do those J2a samples belong to any FTDNA Projects or are they from an academic study/paper?

I think majority of them have been tested on 23andme. but you should contact the admin of oghuz dna project. ask him if there are results from emirdag on dna chart.

J Man
05-01-2020, 05:56 PM
I think majority of them have been tested on 23andme. but you should contact the admin of oghuz dna project. ask him if there are results from emirdag on dna chart.

Ahhh ok thank you. Yoruk people live in Emirdag correct?

icebreaker
05-01-2020, 06:12 PM
Ahhh ok thank you. Yoruk people live in Emirdag correct?

The population of emirdag consists mostly of yoruks and turcomans. there are also small groups of tatars, balkan turks, northern caucasians and karabakh azeris.

J Man
05-01-2020, 08:52 PM
The population of emirdag consists mostly of yoruks and turcomans. there are also small groups of tatars, balkan turks, northern caucasians and karabakh azeris.

Do you know anyone that would know more details about these results?

icebreaker
05-04-2020, 04:00 PM
Do you know anyone that would know more details about these results?

Contact the administrator of oghuz turks project on ftdna:
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/oghuz-turks/about

Onur Dincer
05-06-2020, 02:35 PM
The population of emirdag consists mostly of yoruks and turcomans. there are also small groups of tatars, balkan turks, northern caucasians and karabakh azeris.

But historically yoruk (just means "nomad") and turkmen are labels used to denote the nomadic populations of Anatolia and environs rather than the sedentary ones. Yoruk was used more often for the nomads in the western regions and turkmen was used more often for the nomads in the eastern regions. But before turning back to issue of nomads, let's first take a look at the Muslim and non-Muslim populations of Anatolia in the early 16th century based on the Ottoman tax registers:

37483

At that time Rum Province included the newly conquered areas of the Empire of Trebizond, among others, that is why it had a relatively high non-Muslim population back then.

Now, as you see, in the early 16th century the vast majority of the population of Anatolia was Muslim (the Ottoman population records contain information about religion but not about the language(s) spoken by people). The same tax registers also show that the majority of the population of Anatolia was sedentary rather than nomad, so only a minority of the Muslim population was nomad hence labeled as "yoruk" or "turkmen". Let's turn back to the numbers:


According to the pioneering on the cadastral survey records chronicles conducted by Ö. L. Barkan, in the geography covering today’s Anatolia, Anatolia, Karaman, Dulkadır and Rum provinces there were about 872,610 households in 1520s and 1530s; 160,564 of those households were nomads, and the remainder were settled groups. Of four provinces, province of Anatolia had the largest nomadic population, which were 77,268 households.


Between 1570 and 1580, 220,217 households of the total 1,360,474 in the aforementioned four provinces were nomadic, and the province of Anatolia was again the province having the most immense nomadic population with 116,219 households.

So according to these numbers, during the 16th century nomads constituted less than 20% of the total Anatolian population. BTW, Anatolia Province included only the western parts of Anatolia, not the central and eastern parts. That almost half of the nomadic population of Anatolia was in the western parts of Anatolia correlates well with the modern Anatolian Turkish genetic results as western Anatolian Turks show the highest percentages of Central Asian admixture among modern Anatolian Turks (excluding people with recent Balkan and all other recent immigrant ancestry).

J Man
05-06-2020, 05:04 PM
But historically yoruk (just means "nomad") and turkmen are labels used to denote the nomadic populations of Anatolia and environs rather than the sedentary ones. Yoruk was used more often for the nomads in the western regions and turkmen was used more often for the nomads in the eastern regions. But before turning back to issue of nomads, let's first take a look at the Muslim and non-Muslim populations of Anatolia in the early 16th century based on the Ottoman tax registers:

37483

At that time Rum Province included the newly conquered areas of the Empire of Trebizond, among others, that is why it had a relatively high non-Muslim population back then.

Now, as you see, in the early 16th century the vast majority of the population of Anatolia was Muslim (the Ottoman population records contain information about religion but not about the language(s) spoken by people). The same tax registers also show that the majority of the population of Anatolia was sedentary rather than nomad, so only a minority of the Muslim population was nomad hence labeled as "yoruk" or "turkmen". Let's turn back to the numbers:





So according to these numbers, during the 16th century nomads constituted less than 20% of the total Anatolian population. BTW, Anatolia Province included only the western parts of Anatolia, not the central and eastern parts. That almost half of the nomadic population of Anatolia was in the western parts of Anatolia correlates well with the modern Anatolian Turkish genetic results as western Anatolian Turks show the highest percentages of Central Asian admixture among modern Anatolian Turks (excluding people with recent Balkan and all other recent immigrant ancestry).

Do you know if the people of the Emirdag district were nomadic within the recent past? Or have they been sedentary there for a long time?

Onur Dincer
05-06-2020, 05:11 PM
Do you know if the people of the Emirdag district were nomadic within the recent past? Or have they been sedentary there for a long time?

I do not know the specifics of that district. Icebreaker can inform you better on that as he is from Emirdag.

mountain
05-06-2020, 05:31 PM
Are there any Y-haplogroup profiles of Yörüks? Did they absorb any native Anatolian Y-haplogroups?

I'm asking because I have nomadic ancestry myself (Kurdish). I don't know much about their history other than that they worked with sheep, cattle, camels, and horses and dwelled in black tents. I guess they were culturally similar to Yörüks. My ancestors dwelled in different places and they even dwelled in Aydin, but they finally decided to settle in Konya province. Our tribe's name first appeared in Ottoman archives in 1519 in Malatya.

Onur Dincer
05-06-2020, 06:04 PM
Are there any Y-haplogroup profiles of Yörüks? Did they absorb any native Anatolian Y-haplogroups?

I'm asking because I have nomadic ancestry myself (Kurdish). I don't know much about their history other than that they worked with sheep, cattle, camels, and horses and dwelled in black tents. I guess they were culturally similar to Yörüks. My ancestors dwelled in different places and they even dwelled in Aydin, but they finally decided to settle in Konya province. Our tribe's name first appeared in Ottoman archives in 1519 in Malatya.

Unfortunately there are no academic Y-DNA papers specifically investigating the Y-DNA profiles of people with genealogically traceable nomadic ancestry from Anatolia and environs on their direct paternal lines. Some amateurs may have collected Y-DNA results of such people and uploaded them to public websites such as academia.edu and biorxiv.org, but I do not know any one paper like that either.

J Man
05-06-2020, 07:00 PM
Are there any Y-haplogroup profiles of Yörüks? Did they absorb any native Anatolian Y-haplogroups?

I'm asking because I have nomadic ancestry myself (Kurdish). I don't know much about their history other than that they worked with sheep, cattle, camels, and horses and dwelled in black tents. I guess they were culturally similar to Yörüks. My ancestors dwelled in different places and they even dwelled in Aydin, but they finally decided to settle in Konya province. Our tribe's name first appeared in Ottoman archives in 1519 in Malatya.

Do you know of any nomadic results that are J2a?

mountain
05-06-2020, 07:36 PM
Do you know of any nomadic results that are J2a?

Yes, among Konya Kurds on 23andme: J-L581 (3x), J-M67, J-M172, J-L26. I don't know if anyone has done specific Y-test.

Alkaevli
05-07-2020, 03:44 AM
But historically yoruk (just means "nomad") and turkmen are labels used to denote the nomadic populations of Anatolia and environs rather than the sedentary ones. Yoruk was used more often for the nomads in the western regions and turkmen was used more often for the nomads in the eastern regions.
The phrase "yörük village" might sound like an oxymoron (as yörük means "nomad"), but it's not. Yörük is also used to refer to someone of yörük descend today. Icebreaker is right, the population of Emirdağ is mostly of yörük and türkmen descend (I'm talking about relatively recent past, of course they also harbor medieval Anatolian Greek ancestry, like other Turks do), and they still call themselves as such even though they are no longer nomads.

The difference between the yörüks and türkmens of Emirdağ is that türkmens are relatively late-comers to Emirdağ. The türkmens of Emirdağ are related to Dulkadirli tribes of central and south Anatolia.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326994781_DULKADIRLI_TURKMENLERININ_YURTLARI_HAKKI NDA

Batı Anadolu
Dulkadirli Türkmenlerinin ana kütlesinden ayrılan bazı obalarının Batı Anadolu hatta Rumeli bölgesine de gitmiş olduklarını da ilave etmek gerekir. Afyon-Emirdağ bölgesinde büyük bir Dulkadirli kolundan başka Hamid sancağının Anamaslı nahiyesinde de bir Dulkadirli koluna tesadüf edilmektedir. Özellikle XVII. asrın sonundan itibaren Rakka çevresine iskan olmayı kabul etmeyen bazı Dulkadirli obalarının Batı Anadolu’da Aydın ve Balıkesir havalisine dağıldıkları bilinmektedir.
(Gündüz 2009: 93)

Unsurprisingly, there are many individiuals from Emirdağ who appear, genetically speaking, less "west Anatolian" compared to the rest of Afyonkarahisar.

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JEezl8YoZjOoNqnMoha9sWdMsvIwYYmV5ccljTkhryQ/edit?usp=sharing

J Man
05-07-2020, 12:40 PM
Yes, among Konya Kurds on 23andme: J-L581 (3x), J-M67, J-M172, J-L26. I don't know if anyone has done specific Y-test.

Very interesting thank you! Do you know if they belong to certain specific tribes?

J Man
05-07-2020, 05:46 PM
The phrase "yörük village" might sound like an oxymoron (as yörük means "nomad"), but it's not. Yörük is also used to refer to someone of yörük descend today. Icebreaker is right, the population of Emirdağ is mostly of yörük and türkmen descend (I'm talking about relatively recent past, of course they also harbor medieval Anatolian Greek ancestry, like other Turks do), and they still call themselves as such even though they are no longer nomads.

The difference between the yörüks and türkmens of Emirdağ is that türkmens are relatively late-comers to Emirdağ. The türkmens of Emirdağ are related to Dulkadirli tribes of central and south Anatolia.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326994781_DULKADIRLI_TURKMENLERININ_YURTLARI_HAKKI NDA

Batı Anadolu
Dulkadirli Türkmenlerinin ana kütlesinden ayrılan bazı obalarının Batı Anadolu hatta Rumeli bölgesine de gitmiş olduklarını da ilave etmek gerekir. Afyon-Emirdağ bölgesinde büyük bir Dulkadirli kolundan başka Hamid sancağının Anamaslı nahiyesinde de bir Dulkadirli koluna tesadüf edilmektedir. Özellikle XVII. asrın sonundan itibaren Rakka çevresine iskan olmayı kabul etmeyen bazı Dulkadirli obalarının Batı Anadolu’da Aydın ve Balıkesir havalisine dağıldıkları bilinmektedir.
(Gündüz 2009: 93)

Unsurprisingly, there are many individiuals from Emirdağ who appear, genetically speaking, less "west Anatolian" compared to the rest of Afyonkarahisar.

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JEezl8YoZjOoNqnMoha9sWdMsvIwYYmV5ccljTkhryQ/edit?usp=sharing

I wonder if the J2a men from Emirdag that we have been discussing are Yoruk or Turkmen? I am going to contact the admins of the Oghuz DNA Project to see if they know.

mountain
05-07-2020, 05:56 PM
Very interesting thank you! Do you know if they belong to certain specific tribes?

J-L581: These are from a tribe called "cihanbeyli" in Turkish and "canbega" (canbegs) by Kurds in Konya. The tribe name is also present in northern Iran by the name "jahanbeglu" and in Syria by the name "janbak/janbakli".

J-M172: My guess based on surname: Canbeg tribe.

J-M172: From a village which is founded by Kutukuşağı (Kutuga) tribe, but the village is tribally mixed.

J-L26: From reshvan tribe (the same as mine) (turkish: rışvan, called "reşia" (blacks) by Kurds in Konya and Ankara, known as "rashvand" in Qazvin (Iran) and "rashvanlu" in North Khorasan province of Iran.

J-M67: My mistake. Likely ethnic Kurd from Sivas. Don't know tribe.

My other matches outside of konya:

J-L25: Sinemilli tribe.
J-M172: Reshvan tribe in Adiyaman.
J-M172: Likely Sinemilli from Maraş, Elbistan
J-M47: Likely Sinemilli from Maraş, Elbistan (FTDNA family finder)
J-PF5056 (likely the same as L581 guys above): Iraqi Yezidi from Iraqi DNA project (FTDNA family finder)

J Man
05-07-2020, 06:21 PM
J-L581: These are from a tribe called "cihanbeyli" in Turkish and "canbega" (canbegs) by Kurds in Konya. The tribe name is also present in northern Iran by the name "jahanbeglu" and in Syria by the name "janbak/janbakli".

J-M172: My guess based on surname: Canbeg tribe.

J-M172: From a village which is founded by Kutukuşağı (Kutuga) tribe, but the village is tribally mixed.

J-L26: From reshvan tribe (the same as mine) (turkish: rışvan, called "reşia" (blacks) by Kurds in Konya and Ankara, known as "rashvand" in Qazvin (Iran) and "rashvanlu" in North Khorasan province of Iran.

J-M67: My mistake. Likely ethnic Kurd from Sivas. Don't know tribe.

My other matches outside of konya:

J-L25: Sinemilli tribe.
J-M172: Reshvan tribe in Adiyaman.
J-M172: Likely Sinemilli from Maraş, Elbistan
J-M47: Likely Sinemilli from Maraş, Elbistan (FTDNA family finder)
J-PF5056 (likely the same as L581 guys above): Iraqi Yezidi from Iraqi DNA project (FTDNA family finder)

Wow very interesting thank you! I was curious about this because a while back I was talking with a Kurdish guy who told me that there is no J2a present among what he called "true tribal mountain Kurds". He told me that all true tribal Kurds are either R1a or R1b and that J2a Kurds are all non-tribal plains dwellers. These results you just shared with me seem to disprove that. Is there any truth to what he said at all?

mountain
05-07-2020, 06:47 PM
Wow very interesting thank you! I was curious about this because a while back I was talking with a Kurdish guy who told me that there is no J2a present among what he called "true tribal mountain Kurds". He told me that all true tribal Kurds are either R1a or R1b and that J2a Kurds are all non-tribal plains dwellers. These results you just shared with me seem to disprove that. Is there any truth to what he said at all?

I don't think so. But its not like all tribes have 1 single haplogroup. There are probably multible haplogroups in every tribe, the reshvan is for example a tribe confederacy. I have only written the j2's as you asked for. There are also different haplogroups like R1b, R1a, J1, E which I haven't written. PM to me if you have more questions.

Onur Dincer
05-29-2020, 05:36 AM
The phrase "yörük village" might sound like an oxymoron (as yörük means "nomad"), but it's not. Yörük is also used to refer to someone of yörük descend today. Icebreaker is right, the population of Emirdağ is mostly of yörük and türkmen descend (I'm talking about relatively recent past, of course they also harbor medieval Anatolian Greek ancestry, like other Turks do), and they still call themselves as such even though they are no longer nomads.

The difference between the yörüks and türkmens of Emirdağ is that türkmens are relatively late-comers to Emirdağ. The türkmens of Emirdağ are related to Dulkadirli tribes of central and south Anatolia.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326994781_DULKADIRLI_TURKMENLERININ_YURTLARI_HAKKI NDA

Batı Anadolu
Dulkadirli Türkmenlerinin ana kütlesinden ayrılan bazı obalarının Batı Anadolu hatta Rumeli bölgesine de gitmiş olduklarını da ilave etmek gerekir. Afyon-Emirdağ bölgesinde büyük bir Dulkadirli kolundan başka Hamid sancağının Anamaslı nahiyesinde de bir Dulkadirli koluna tesadüf edilmektedir. Özellikle XVII. asrın sonundan itibaren Rakka çevresine iskan olmayı kabul etmeyen bazı Dulkadirli obalarının Batı Anadolu’da Aydın ve Balıkesir havalisine dağıldıkları bilinmektedir.
(Gündüz 2009: 93)

Unsurprisingly, there are many individiuals from Emirdağ who appear, genetically speaking, less "west Anatolian" compared to the rest of Afyonkarahisar.

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JEezl8YoZjOoNqnMoha9sWdMsvIwYYmV5ccljTkhryQ/edit?usp=sharing

The confusing thing about the Turkish terminologies in Anatolia is that they are not consistent in all of Anatolia. For example, in NW Anatolia the long-sedentary native populations are never called yörük (or türkmen) but manav. In the central and eastern regions of Anatolia, too, you do not see the terms yörük and türkmen applied to the long-sedentary native populations much, but you do not see a specific term for them like manav either except the generic term yerli (literally means "native").