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JohnHowellsTyrfro
01-05-2018, 07:42 PM
With his permission, below are the results of a chap who is French born and says his maternal known ancestry is entirely Breton, he says "from the 1500's" and on the paternal side French although the name of a great great grandfather ( living around 1861) is unknown. He is particularly baffled by his South and South East England percentages.
Just thought it might be of interest.
Living DNA
Europe 98.8%
Great Britain and Ireland 83.1%
Southeast England 21%
Devon 14.1%
South England 12.5%
Ireland 9.6%
Cornwall 5.3%
East Anglia 5.3%
Central England 4.9%
Aberdeenshire 2.5%
South Wales 2.4%
Orkney 2.1%
Cumbria 1.7%
North Wales 1.6%
Europe (North and West) 11.5%
Scandinavia 10.2%
France 1.3%
Europe (South) 4.2%
Tuscany 3.1%
Sardinia 1.1%
Asia (Central) 1.2%
Northwest Caucasus 1.2%

His "Ancestry" test results he describes as very similar :-
"The DNA result was Great Britain 56%- Ireland/Scotland/Wales 19%- Scandinavia 7%- European Jewish 5%.
Only 2% Europe West (France probably) and some percent of Europe South-Iberian Peninsula-Finland-Caucasus."

Y DNA R-U152 subclade R-L 20
MtDNA H2a2

MacEochaidh
01-08-2018, 12:15 PM
With his permission, below are the results of a chap who is French born and says his maternal known ancestry is entirely Breton, he says "from the 1500's" and on the paternal side French although the name of a great great grandfather ( living around 1861) is unknown. He is particularly baffled by his South and South East England percentages.
Just thought it might be of interest.
Living DNA
Europe 98.8%
Great Britain and Ireland 83.1%
Southeast England 21%
Devon 14.1%
South England 12.5%
Ireland 9.6%
Cornwall 5.3%
East Anglia 5.3%
Central England 4.9%
Aberdeenshire 2.5%
South Wales 2.4%
Orkney 2.1%
Cumbria 1.7%
North Wales 1.6%
Europe (North and West) 11.5%
Scandinavia 10.2%
France 1.3%
Europe (South) 4.2%
Tuscany 3.1%
Sardinia 1.1%
Asia (Central) 1.2%
Northwest Caucasus 1.2%

His "Ancestry" test results he describes as very similar :-
"The DNA result was Great Britain 56%- Ireland/Scotland/Wales 19%- Scandinavia 7%- European Jewish 5%.
Only 2% Europe West (France probably) and some percent of Europe South-Iberian Peninsula-Finland-Caucasus."

Y DNA R-U152 subclade R-L 20
MtDNA H2a2

I have three grandparents from Belfast and one French Canadian grandmother. Her ancestry on paper shows mostly Bretagne and Normandy, but there is also a line from Auvergne.

I get Tuscany 10.6% / France 5% / Iberian 1.6%. I also get GB and Ireland 79.6% / East Anglia 16.4% / South Central England 5.5% and Devon 4%.

alan
01-08-2018, 12:35 PM
I am v curious as to whether the resemblance to The isles of Bretons is specific to Brittany or a general NW France thing. So we have any Normandy people? I have a hunch they would be v similar

JohnHowellsTyrfro
01-08-2018, 01:53 PM
I am v curious as to whether the resemblance to The isles of Bretons is specific to Brittany or a general NW France thing. So we have any Normandy people? I have a hunch they would be v similar

My guess would Northern France would be quite similar to Southern England, maybe a little closer to Wales, Cornwall and parts of Ireland from Brittany.
Pity there is such a shortage of French results.

Tolan
01-09-2018, 05:03 AM
I already gave my results of Living DNA, but I can give again for this thread:
http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/autosomal/living-dna.htm

All my ancestors come from one region:
20658

sktibo
01-09-2018, 05:40 AM
Definitely would have thought there would be a higher percentage from Cornwall and Devon for both Tolan and this Half Breton... A stronger Welsh connection too.
This ties in to LucaszM's K47 result for Helgene's Cousin who is half Breton - and got a higher percentage in "North Sea Germanic" than "Celtic". North Sea Germanic in this K47 contains SE English samples, so I think we're seeing a match with that again as we do here. These results may hint at Bretons not being what we originally perceived them to be? Who knows.. hopefully France will open up more to the commercial DNA testing world.

timberwolf
01-09-2018, 05:58 AM
Definitely would have thought there would be a higher percentage from Cornwall and Devon for both Tolan and this Half Breton... A stronger Welsh connection too.
This ties in to LucaszM's K47 result for Helgene's Cousin who is half Breton - and got a higher percentage in "North Sea Germanic" than "Celtic". North Sea Germanic in this K47 contains SE English samples, so I think we're seeing a match with that again as we do here. These results may hint at Bretons not being what we originally perceived them to be? Who knows.. hopefully France will open up more to the commercial DNA testing world.

Yeah they are interesting results, I too would have thought a much higher Cornwall, Devon percentage.

As a comparison with the K36 nMonte LukaszM ran for me. I got a higher percentage in Brittany, than Scotland and NI

England_South-West 57.25
FR_Brittany 16.35
Scotland 15.55
Northern_Ireland 3.00
Hessen 2.45
Dutch_Drenthe 1.90
FR_Basque 1.85
North_Holland_&_Friesland 0.90
Dutch_Gelderland 0.40
País_Vasco 0.15
Dutch_Limburg 0.10
Niedersachsen 0.05
Ireland 0.05

sktibo
01-09-2018, 06:04 AM
Yeah they are interesting results, I too would have thought a much higher Cornwall, Devon percentage.

As a comparison with the K36 nMonte LukaszM ran for me. I got a higher percentage in Brittany, than Scotland and NI

England_South-West 57.25
FR_Brittany 16.35
Scotland 15.55
Northern_Ireland 3.00
Hessen 2.45
Dutch_Drenthe 1.90
FR_Basque 1.85
North_Holland_&_Friesland 0.90
Dutch_Gelderland 0.40
País_Vasco 0.15
Dutch_Limburg 0.10
Niedersachsen 0.05
Ireland 0.05

I'd like to see the K36 Oracle results for the Half Breton to see if they get a high Cornish similarity... I'd like to see Tolan's as well.
@Tolan could you get and post your K36 Oracle here perhaps?
@JohnHowellsTyrfro Any chance you could get this individuals K36 results (using his ancestry DNA data)?

Helgenes50
01-09-2018, 06:19 AM
I'd like to see the K36 Oracle results for the Half Breton to see if they get a high Cornish similarity... I'd like to see Tolan's as well.
@Tolan could you get and post your K36 Oracle here perhaps?
@JohnHowellsTyrfro Any chance you could get this individuals K36 results (using his ancestry DNA data)?

My cousin's results with K36 ( Half Breton Half Norman)

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 5.22
Central_African -
Central_Euro 3.79
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.57
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 9.72
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 4.75
French 7.03
Iberian 20.62
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 11.53
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 13.56
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 19.02
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 2.19

timberwolf
01-09-2018, 06:25 AM
My cousin's results with K36 ( Half Breton Half Norman)

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 5.22
Central_African -
Central_Euro 3.79
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.57
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 9.72
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 4.75
French 7.03
Iberian 20.62
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 11.53
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 13.56
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 19.02
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 2.19

Mine as a comparison

opulation
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 4.25
Central_African -
Central_Euro 3.23
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 1.75
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 1.89
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 6.85
Fennoscandian 6.76
French 11.48
Iberian 16.05
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 7.90
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 19.95
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 19.88
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

The first thing I noticed is, I get a higher French score, then someone, who is actually French.

Helgenes50
01-09-2018, 06:32 AM
Mine as a comparison



The first thing I noticed is, I get a higher French score, then someone, who is actually French.


the name assigned for this component is probably not correct.
From my side, as Norman I get 8.69 % of it.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
01-09-2018, 07:30 AM
Definitely would have thought there would be a higher percentage from Cornwall and Devon for both Tolan and this Half Breton... A stronger Welsh connection too.
This ties in to LucaszM's K47 result for Helgene's Cousin who is half Breton - and got a higher percentage in "North Sea Germanic" than "Celtic". North Sea Germanic in this K47 contains SE English samples, so I think we're seeing a match with that again as we do here. These results may hint at Bretons not being what we originally perceived them to be? Who knows.. hopefully France will open up more to the commercial DNA testing world.

My history knowledge on this is very limited so I'm happy to be corrected.
I have read that parts of Brittany (the South I think) have fairly significant Frank history/influence and in the East you have proximity to and associations with, Normandy and I guess that includes Franks as well as Scandinavians? Maybe it's like the border and coastal areas of Wales where we have seen "other influences". Possibly if we were able to look at Brittany in greater regional detail we might actually see that there are certain areas (possibly the North West? ) that lie closer to Ireland and South Western Britain genetically as well as geographically. This might not be too far fetched if you look at the apparent genetic and cultural differences either side on the Landsker line in Pembrokeshire, the fairly distinct differences along and close to the Welsh border and the fact that a river seems to separate Cornwall in more ways than one from it's Devon neighbours. :)
It is noticeable however in all these results I think, the apparent associations with the far South of England and the Western coast of Britain (up the Irish Sea) and Ireland.
I will ask about K36 but I don't know if he is on Gedmatch.

Helgenes50
01-09-2018, 09:34 AM
My history knowledge on this is very limited so I'm happy to be corrected.
I have read that parts of Brittany (the South I think) have fairly significant Frank history/influence and in the East you have proximity to and associations with, Normandy and I guess that includes Franks as well as Scandinavians? Maybe it's like the border and coastal areas of Wales where we have seen "other influences". Possibly if we were able to look at Brittany in greater regional detail we might actually see that there are certain areas (possibly the North West? ) that lie closer to Ireland and South Western Britain genetically as well as geographically. This might not be too far fetched if you look at the apparent genetic and cultural differences either side on the Landsker line in Pembrokeshire, the fairly distinct differences along and close to the Welsh border and the fact that a river seems to separate Cornwall in more ways than one from it's Devon neighbours. :)
It is noticeable however in all these results I think, the apparent associations with the far South of England and the Western coast of Britain (up the Irish Sea) and Ireland.
I will ask about K36 but I don't know if he is on Gedmatch.
Not South, East.
What is today Eastern Brittany , was for the Franks a Mark a borderland, ruled by a "Marquis", one of them is very well known, Roland of the song.
Franks as letes, were also present in Rennes.
From what we know the paternal lines in Brittany are more homogeneous Than in Western Normandy, with a lot of I-M253. Their Nordic or Germanic ancestry is probably hidden in their aDNA, but not really visible in the Y chromosome
Most of their clades are Celtic.

Tolan
01-09-2018, 11:16 AM
In all calculators, I am not much "North Sea" for a northern French.
My K36 results:

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 1.09%
Central_African -
Central_Euro 7.30%
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.13%
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 5.52%
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 4.25%
Fennoscandian 3.70%
French 7.58%
Iberian 18.29%
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 13.35%
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African 1.08%
North_Atlantic 16.54%
North_Caucasian 2.63%
North_Sea 10.76%
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 2.76%

avalon
01-10-2018, 04:56 PM
With his permission, below are the results of a chap who is French born and says his maternal known ancestry is entirely Breton, he says "from the 1500's" and on the paternal side French although the name of a great great grandfather ( living around 1861) is unknown. He is particularly baffled by his South and South East England percentages.


That is interesting and I would tend to echo your thoughts on this. Northern France and Southern England are probably genetically close, as these Living DNA results appear to show. The English Channel is not that wide and there has probably been to and fro across the channel for millennia. Barry Cunliffe in Britain Begins talks about very close contact across the channel during the Iron Age which he calls the Channel -North Sea cultural zone.

Regarding the Bretons, I think you and others hit the nail on the head here. Eastern Brittany likely has more historical influence from other areas, eg Franks, so what we really need to see is the results of someone from Western Brittany, preferably a Breton speaker who has long standing 100% ancestry in the same area. This in itself might be difficult to find though, because modern populations everywhere in NW Europe are generally quite mixed.

I suspect that if the 'right' Breton takes a Living DNA test then we may see a close affinity with Cornwall and/or Wales. However, the Breton migration was 1700 years ago so genetic drift may have pulled modern Bretons away from modern Cornish/Welsh, to a certain extent.

20693

JohnHowellsTyrfro
01-10-2018, 05:21 PM
Thanks Avalon, your opinion is valued, as always.
Personally I think we should test every farmer we can find. :) They tend to be tied to the land for many generations. A generalisation but some truth in it maybe.

avalon
01-11-2018, 04:28 PM
Thanks Avalon, your opinion is valued, as always.
Personally I think we should test every farmer we can find. :) They tend to be tied to the land for many generations. A generalisation but some truth in it maybe.

Yes, I think farmers would be good people to test. In my experience though, they might be the last people to ever do a DNA test, busy lives, outdoors a lot, and neither the time nor interest in DNA testing! :)

Rinema
01-14-2018, 09:23 PM
My father is breton (northeast Brittany). Here's his K36 :
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 4.29
Central_African -
Central_Euro 6.48
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 1.65
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.38
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 2.92
Fennoscandian 4.79
French 6.91
Iberian 19.39
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 10.81
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 17.81
North_Caucasian 3.02
North_Sea 12.05
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.67
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 2.84

sktibo
01-14-2018, 09:58 PM
That is interesting and I would tend to echo your thoughts on this. Northern France and Southern England are probably genetically close, as these Living DNA results appear to show. The English Channel is not that wide and there has probably been to and fro across the channel for millennia. Barry Cunliffe in Britain Begins talks about very close contact across the channel during the Iron Age which he calls the Channel -North Sea cultural zone.

Regarding the Bretons, I think you and others hit the nail on the head here. Eastern Brittany likely has more historical influence from other areas, eg Franks, so what we really need to see is the results of someone from Western Brittany, preferably a Breton speaker who has long standing 100% ancestry in the same area. This in itself might be difficult to find though, because modern populations everywhere in NW Europe are generally quite mixed.

I suspect that if the 'right' Breton takes a Living DNA test then we may see a close affinity with Cornwall and/or Wales. However, the Breton migration was 1700 years ago so genetic drift may have pulled modern Bretons away from modern Cornish/Welsh, to a certain extent.

20693

If I remember correctly, Helgene's cousin's Breton side is from the Northern coast of Brittany, which should be the right sort of area. However, it is only half of their ancestry - And they haven't taken Living DNA as far as I know

Tolan
01-15-2018, 08:28 AM
On this calculator, your father is very close to me: 90% similarity.

Here is the K36 map for your father:
20783



My father is breton (northeast Brittany). Here's his K36 :
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 4.29
Central_African -
Central_Euro 6.48
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 1.65
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.38
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 2.92
Fennoscandian 4.79
French 6.91
Iberian 19.39
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 10.81
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 17.81
North_Caucasian 3.02
North_Sea 12.05
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.67
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 2.84

Rinema
01-15-2018, 03:55 PM
@Tolan
Yes I know this tool ^^ What is yours ?

Tolan
01-15-2018, 05:20 PM
@Tolan
Yes I know this tool ^^ What is yours ?

20816

RobertCasey
01-16-2018, 01:27 PM
We have had a very interesting discovery for R-L226 which is very Irish in origin. We recently turned one of the L226 branch equivalents (around 25 of these) into the father of L226. One person took our L226 SNP Pack and came back FGC5618 positive (formerly a L226 equivalent) but L226 negative. As it turns out, this person has only ties in northern and northwestern France to our mutual surprise. Here is an excerpt of his atDNA research:

I have always been told that my grandfather’s family came from France. When I first learned of my being part of the R1b haplogroup, I was able to confirm this history. My unbroken family tree stops with names that go back to the late 1800s. However, after doing an autosomal dna test through Ancestry.com, I was able to get the names of two Loiseau relatives of mine from the 1600s...and they both were from northwestern France. I accomplished this by looking at the family trees of two of my dna matches.

They say luck does play a part in genealogical research, and I finally lucked out. The two dna matched cousins of mine through Ancestry happened to have very thorough family trees without gaps...and the Loiseau surname was the only one the three of us shared through direct lineage. I know the surnames of all eight of my great grandparents. Each of these two cousin matches also had the Loiseau’s from northern France on their respective family trees. And I have a few leads for some other Loiseau’s from other parts of France.

Being from a Haitian background has certain limitations when it comes to family research. Outside of the lack of records that can be accessed digitally online, Haitian culture is a very private one. For example, I have fourth generation cousins who say they have a family tree that goes back to the 1600s, which reflects Loiseau’s from both France and Belgium, but I haven’t gained enough of their trust for them to share this tree with me. However, I’m confident in time they will give up the goods. But until then, I plan to continue to use triangulation through Ancestry trees and the family knowledge from my elders with whom I am closest to continue to connect the dots of my paper and pencil genealogical records.

Here is an interesting video on Celtic languages which covers the Celtic migration which was not a massive replacement of genetics but a certain of genetic flow did occur. It goes into pretty good detail in the first half of the video on how Celtic languages spread and then were replaced. The second half is purely differences in the Celtic languages that still exist today:

https://youtu.be/ri1Vw3w1_10


The YSTRs of this tester has very little in common with the extremely predictable YSTR signature of L226, so this connection is believed to at least 500 to 1,000 years older than the bulk of L226 which became very prolific in numbers around 1,500 years ago. We speculate that L226 originated from northwestern France either from the surviving Celtic community where Saxons did not conquer or from those fleeing England from Saxon invasion who fled to northwestern France to escape the Saxon invasion of England. Of course, this person has no close matches at all from a YDNA point of view but from a YSNP point of view is a very interesting twist for L226 which has origins in County Clare, Ireland.

YFULL states that L226 is around 1,500 years old but we have around 35 L226 branch equivalents (around ten are in complex areas and another five are Full Genomes only tested). Due to the extensive numbers of L226 branch equivalents, we know the actual L226 mutation happened 1,500 or 3,000 years prior to L226 becoming prolific around 1,500 years ago. Can't hardly wait our French connection (who is African American from Haiti) receives his Big Y results to see just how many L226 equivalents get pulled up to FGC5618 equivalents.

If anyone has a better idea of how a very Irish haplogroup ended up with its genetic father in France, I am open to understanding other possible scenarios explaining the unusual development. At 67 markers, this tester only matches 4 of 9 of the L226 signature mutations. He also only matches 3 of 7 of the mutations for markers 68 to 111. Plus he has a huge genetic distance from the L226 signature with genetic distance of fifteen at 67 markers and an additional genetic distance of twelve added for markers 68 to 111.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
01-17-2018, 08:27 AM
We have had a very interesting discovery for R-L226 which is very Irish in origin. We recently turned one of the L226 branch equivalents (around 25 of these) into the father of L226. One person took our L226 SNP Pack and came back FGC5618 positive (formerly a L226 equivalent) but L226 negative. As it turns out, this person has only ties in northern and northwestern France to our mutual surprise. Here is an excerpt of his atDNA research:

I have always been told that my grandfather’s family came from France. When I first learned of my being part of the R1b haplogroup, I was able to confirm this history. My unbroken family tree stops with names that go back to the late 1800s. However, after doing an autosomal dna test through Ancestry.com, I was able to get the names of two Loiseau relatives of mine from the 1600s...and they both were from northwestern France. I accomplished this by looking at the family trees of two of my dna matches.

They say luck does play a part in genealogical research, and I finally lucked out. The two dna matched cousins of mine through Ancestry happened to have very thorough family trees without gaps...and the Loiseau surname was the only one the three of us shared through direct lineage. I know the surnames of all eight of my great grandparents. Each of these two cousin matches also had the Loiseau’s from northern France on their respective family trees. And I have a few leads for some other Loiseau’s from other parts of France.

Being from a Haitian background has certain limitations when it comes to family research. Outside of the lack of records that can be accessed digitally online, Haitian culture is a very private one. For example, I have fourth generation cousins who say they have a family tree that goes back to the 1600s, which reflects Loiseau’s from both France and Belgium, but I haven’t gained enough of their trust for them to share this tree with me. However, I’m confident in time they will give up the goods. But until then, I plan to continue to use triangulation through Ancestry trees and the family knowledge from my elders with whom I am closest to continue to connect the dots of my paper and pencil genealogical records.

Here is an interesting video on Celtic languages which covers the Celtic migration which was not a massive replacement of genetics but a certain of genetic flow did occur. It goes into pretty good detail in the first half of the video on how Celtic languages spread and then were replaced. The second half is purely differences in the Celtic languages that still exist today:

https://youtu.be/ri1Vw3w1_10


The YSTRs of this tester has very little in common with the extremely predictable YSTR signature of L226, so this connection is believed to at least 500 to 1,000 years older than the bulk of L226 which became very prolific in numbers around 1,500 years ago. We speculate that L226 originated from northwestern France either from the surviving Celtic community where Saxons did not conquer or from those fleeing England from Saxon invasion who fled to northwestern France to escape the Saxon invasion of England. Of course, this person has no close matches at all from a YDNA point of view but from a YSNP point of view is a very interesting twist for L226 which has origins in County Clare, Ireland.

YFULL states that L226 is around 1,500 years old but we have around 35 L226 branch equivalents (around ten are in complex areas and another five are Full Genomes only tested). Due to the extensive numbers of L226 branch equivalents, we know the actual L226 mutation happened 1,500 or 3,000 years prior to L226 becoming prolific around 1,500 years ago. Can't hardly wait our French connection (who is African American from Haiti) receives his Big Y results to see just how many L226 equivalents get pulled up to FGC5618 equivalents.

If anyone has a better idea of how a very Irish haplogroup ended up with its genetic father in France, I am open to understanding other possible scenarios explaining the unusual development. At 67 markers, this tester only matches 4 of 9 of the L226 signature mutations. He also only matches 3 of 7 of the mutations for markers 68 to 111. Plus he has a huge genetic distance from the L226 signature with genetic distance of fifteen at 67 markers and an additional genetic distance of twelve added for markers 68 to 111.




I'm not suggesting this is a "better" option. We know of course there is a very early connection between Ireland, Wales (South in particular) and South West England (mainly Cornwall I think) from Ogham stones and the historic record.
Worth remembering also I think there was a long "English" presence in parts of France during the 100 years war ( 1337 - 1453 ). This presence would have certainly included men of Welsh and possibly English West country origin, whether of Irish origin I don't know.
I was curious about one of my 12 marker matches a French chap with the surname L'Angloise which I believe roughly translates as "The Englishman". This could suggest his ancestry goes back to this period although it's possible I suppose that his earlier ancestors could possibly have travelled to England around the Norman Conquest and then returned to France at a later date or migrated to France for another reason.
Some very early connection seems most likely for the L226 but with an individual, who knows where their ancestors' journeys might have taken them? Anything known about the distribution of L226 in Britain particularly Wales and the West Country?

RobertCasey
01-17-2018, 08:02 PM
Some very early connection seems most likely for the L226 but with an individual, who knows where their ancestors' journeys might have taken them? Anything known about the distribution of L226 in Britain particularly Wales and the West Country?
Yes - I definitely agree with this last statement that with only one individual the flow could have been backwards back to France vs. France to Ireland. But we do know that this French tester is an ancestor via YDNA testing. FGC5618 is proven to be the father of L226 and he shares only around half of the L226 signature, so this connection is quite old based on YSTRs. Once his Big Y results are known, we will see just how many L226 equivalents become FGC5618 equivalents. This will make the date range of L226 much much smaller as L226 will lose most of its branch equivalents based on the fact that the L226 SNP revealed that many have already moved up the haplotree being confirmed as positive. Unfortunately, we just removed most of the L226 equivalents in the last round of updates to make room for new L226 branches and 20 or 30 Big Y tests that have new private YSNPs. Also, Z253 the ancestor of L226 has primarily English, Scottish and Welsh origins (and a lot more Irish as well). But it also has French and German and even a few in Spain, Lithuania, Russia and Switzerland.

Unfortunately, this tester has no close YSTR matches at 67 or 111 markers. Even beyond the FTDNA matching system, his matches are very distant. So building his genetic cluster will not be easy.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
01-18-2018, 06:58 AM
Yes - I definitely agree with this last statement that with only one individual the flow could have been backwards back to France vs. France to Ireland. But we do know that this French tester is an ancestor via YDNA testing. FGC5618 is proven to be the father of L226 and he shares only around half of the L226 signature, so this connection is quite old based on YSTRs. Once his Big Y results are known, we will see just how many L226 equivalents become FGC5618 equivalents. This will make the date range of L226 much much smaller as L226 will lose most of its branch equivalents based on the fact that the L226 SNP revealed that many have already moved up the haplotree being confirmed as positive. Unfortunately, we just removed most of the L226 equivalents in the last round of updates to make room for new L226 branches and 20 or 30 Big Y tests that have new private YSNPs. Also, Z253 the ancestor of L226 has primarily English, Scottish and Welsh origins (and a lot more Irish as well). But it also has French and German and even a few in Spain, Lithuania, Russia and Switzerland.

Unfortunately, this tester has no close YSTR matches at 67 or 111 markers. Even beyond the FTDNA matching system, his matches are very distant. So building his genetic cluster will not be easy.

The lack of results from France is a shame, the answers to quite a few questions may lie there possibly. Good luck with finding out more.

SaltyShanker
02-05-2018, 01:17 AM
Very interesting , however i think livingDNA exaggerates British Isles dna at the moment , in the future it will probably be broken down into way more French DNA rather than so much British . Dont get me wrong though since hes breton he will still have alot of British Isles dna !