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View Full Version : Z301* (U106>Z381>Z301) Z301+ L48- U198-



TigerMW
09-10-2013, 04:37 PM
Z301 is the large subclade that has both the monster L48 lineage and U198 so these are the people that are Z301+ but negative for those two subclades.

U198 is the subclade that has been around for a while, also labeled as S29. It is more common in England and Germany but hard to find in Scandinavia. The Old Norway Project does have U198 show up in Ostergotland, if I remember, basically Baltic facing.

f106361 Cannon R1b-U106>Z381>Z301** Z301+ L132+ U198- L48- Z154- L5- L6- P107- s381301- uas England
f245863 Coleman R1b-U106>Z381>Z301* Z301+ U198- L48- L6- P107- L217- s381301-56513 England
f97148 Coleman R1b-U106>Z381>Z301* Z301+ U198- L48- L6- P107- L217- s381301-56513 England
f89750 Corbett R1b-U106>Z381>Z301* Z301+ U198- L48- P107- s381301-154-2510 zzCountry UK
f104946 Dick R1b-U106>Z381>Z301** Z301+ U198- L48- Z154- L5- L6- P107- L217- s381301- uas Ireland

f42776 Glass R1b-U106>Z381>Z301** Z301+ U198- L48- Z154- P107- s381301a-40611 Germany, Baden-Wrttemberg

I continue to be surprised that some of these early branching paragroup people seem to be more likely from southern Germany rather than northern.

karl83
01-26-2014, 03:11 PM
It seems some of the surnames from the British Isles are somewhat tied to an Anglo-Norman origin. Some of these groups may have originated in Scandinavia.

VinceT
01-27-2014, 06:58 AM
It's possible that Corbett is actually on the Z153, L259 branch which hasn't yet been put on the ISOGG tree due to insufficient testing or variation.

Cdanel
07-27-2014, 05:27 PM
My dad is R-U106/Z381/Z301 negative L48 and Negative U198. Male family all from northeast France confirmed back to 1630.

Gary Corbett
08-09-2014, 03:00 AM
I am definitely an L259.

Cdanel
08-09-2014, 08:24 PM
Tests Taken by My dad from north east France

L150+, L23+, L51+, M173+, P310+, U106+, Z381+, Z301+, M323-, U198-, Z156-, P312-, P89-, M65-, P107-, L1-, L148-, L6-, M126-, M153-, M160-, L257-, L325-, L4-, L44-, L47-, L48-, L159-, L164-, L165-, L176-, L188-, L193-, L2-, L20-, L21-, L217-, L226-

Gary Corbett
08-29-2014, 10:45 PM
Any chance your dad is Fernand?
He's supposed to be L259.

Cdanel
09-01-2014, 02:05 PM
Yes, my dad is Fernand. I just got the test result back. Positive for L259. Any more tests that would be useful?

Gary Corbett
09-02-2014, 10:13 PM
Well,what would be best is the Big Y.
It is real expensive,though.
There are only a few of us so far that have tested Positive for L259.
For a number of years,the only ones were named Corbett or Corbitt.
Now Doug Mumma has a Positive result,and your father,Fernand Danel.
Wilbur Corbitt already has Big Y results.
Not sure if Doug does.
So ideally,we could compare Big Y between Wilbur,Fernand,and Doug,and see just what is there.

I know my STR values and Doug's aren't close,so any common ancestor would likely be WAY back in time.

If the cost of Big Y is something you can handle,then that's the thing to do.
If it is too much,then we can likely start a fund and see if anyone will donate.
I will.The same was done for me,when I did the original Walk On The Y,and L259 was discovered in me.I financed part of it,and donors also helped.

Cofgene
09-02-2014, 10:48 PM
There are 5 Mumma Big-Y's in the system. They are very, very early ones and most likely do not identify all of the potential SNPs when compared to the current runs. The key is that they are several branching points in the L259 twig based upon the current Big-Y and the 1K genomes results. We need additional Big-Y's to formalize what the 1K genome results are showing.

Cdanel
09-06-2014, 01:43 PM
My dad is deceased now. Can I order the big y without a new sample?
Also I see you are 25 DYS 390 - same as my dad.

Wing Genealogist
09-06-2014, 02:59 PM
FTDNA may have enough of your father's DNA to run the Big Y test. If I was you, I would contact them and let them know he is deceased, and ask them first if they believe they have enough DNA to run the test.

Gary Corbett
09-06-2014, 03:13 PM
And if not,you can have the test done on yourself.
Your Y DNA is either exactly like his,or extremely close.
I haven't done Big Y,but my deceased father,brother,and myself all have STR results.
My brother was exactly like my dad.
There was evidently a replication slippage error with me,as one of my fast-mutaters is 1 off from my father.

Cdanel
09-07-2014, 04:50 PM
Gary,
Hah!! Well, I do have a brother.
and, thanks for the tip, wing.

Gary Corbett
09-08-2014, 01:00 PM
Is your genealogy data posted on the net somewhere?
Interesting to me that you go back to Northeast France. That is exactly the sort of thing I have been wanting to see for several years,an L259 that lives in Europe or has definite knowledge of their European location origins.
I have not looked deeply into what FTDNA may have on the subject,but 23andMe says I am largely British/Irish,but have noticeable French/German and a bit of Scandinavian still present.
The Mumma folks have German origins-I wonder now if L259 is from the area historically contested between France and Germany,being Northeast France?
I wish more French and Germans from the area had some public test results!!

Cdanel
09-10-2014, 02:37 AM
Gary,
A relative of ours in Arras in Pas de Calais happens to be an expert geologist and has generously given me birth, death, baptism and marriage records of my father's family going back to the 1600's. They were all born within a 50 mile radius of Hesdin. Other towns that appear are Anvin, Pierremont, and Crepy. In the late 1800s evidently the men became coal miners in Lens, also in northeast France. Then mining companies from the US came to the French mining areas to recruit men. My grandfather came to Pennsylvania to mine coal in about 1912 as I recall. He was 16. All of our family first names and wives' names are very French. I don't know our history before 1630. However the name Leonard Danel (a printer) is famously traced back to the 1300's in Lille, also in northeast France...no close relation obviously as we were miners!!!

Oops--- the original printer Leonard Danel is circa 1600's not 1300's. he was an orphan adopted by a printing family in Lille. he developed a certain typeface. A later Leonard Danel was a prominent publisher. Tons of Danel's in northeast France.

Cdanel
09-11-2014, 11:58 AM
Gary,
I ordered the Big Y but FTDNA just told there is not enough of a sample to run the Big Y on my dad. :(.

I will donate the cost of the test to you or to someone you suggest. Let me know.

Gary Corbett
09-11-2014, 12:58 PM
That is incredibly nice of you.
Thanks very much!
You said you had a brother-I am assuming he is a full brother and not a half brother?
Being a full brother,having the same father,he has the same Y as Fernand Danel had.
If your brother is agreeable,I think it would be best to test HIM.
That way,you will gain the personal satisfaction of also knowing what your dad had.
Plus,because Wilbur Corbitt has already done the Big Y,it would likely be a bit redundant to also do me.
There is much more potential to expand our knowledge base of L259 by testing YOUR family Y line than by doing another test on mine,in other words.
Do you think your brother would agree to doing this?
Thanks again!!

MAJ_G
05-14-2016, 03:49 PM
Z301* (U106>Z381>Z301>Z155>Z154) (L48- U198-)

I am looking for more information concerning our haplogroup origins. I am a member of our family historical society, and we have an active DNA Project. Our family tree may originate from Kent, England in the Whitstable area. Our oldest know ancestor in the US was born in 1705 in Virginia. There are some indications that his father may have been the original immigrant from England to Maryland. We recently contacted males of our same surname in England, and five men responded to our mailings and participated in DNA testing and have matched to us. We are currently underway with investigating their family trees in effort to identify the immigrant to the US that is our common ancestor. Is there any information available on the origin of U106>Z381>Z301>Z155 subclades? This would be very helpful to our genealogical research. Thank you!

Cofgene
05-14-2016, 05:38 PM
Z155>Z154 is a very thin/small branch in terms of how many unique lineages have tested into it. That makes it difficult to get a good guess in place until a couple of additional lines join your region. Ask the question in the U106 yahoo discussion group and follow the current version of Iain's U106 analysis at http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics.html to see what is being conjectured. Meanwhile look at getting any other surnames on your 37 or 67 STR marker lists tested to see if they might also fall into the Z155 region.

lgmayka
05-14-2016, 10:23 PM
Z301* (U106>Z381>Z301>Z155>Z154) (L48- U198-)

I am looking for more information concerning our haplogroup origins.
Kit 62454 in my project tested Z155+ Z154- FGC8507+ in the Big Y test. Nevertheless, FTDNA has positioned FGC8507 downstream from Z154.

MAJ_G
06-05-2016, 08:12 PM
Kit 62454 in my project tested Z155+ Z154- FGC8507+ in the Big Y test. Nevertheless, FTDNA has positioned FGC8507 downstream from Z154.

9646

http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html


This is from ISOGG Y-DNA Haplogroup R and its Subclades - 2016.

lgmayka
06-06-2016, 12:33 AM
http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html


This is from ISOGG Y-DNA Haplogroup R and its Subclades - 2016.
Both ISOGG and YFull place Z154 differently from FTDNA.
FTDNA: Z154 is downstream from Z155, which is downstream from Z301
ISOGG (http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html): Z154 is downstream from Z301, and colored gray
YFull (https://yfull.com/tree/R-Z152/): Z154 is downstream from L259, which is downstream from Z301

Wing Genealogist
06-06-2016, 10:46 AM
The U106 Haplogroup Project lists the following [primarily from Big Y results] (FGC8512 is a subclade of Z301)
See https://app.box.com/s/afqsrrnvv2d51msqcz2o

FGC8512 with two subclades
BY3251
Z155, L259

Z155, L259 with one subclade
22470089

22470089 with two subclades
FGC8507
Z153/S500



Please note the unnamed clade at the 22.4 million position is in the DYZ19 region, and as such, it may not be a valid SNP. However, current Big Y results show where it unites the FGC8507 clade with the Z153 clade. In addition, one Big Y result is positive for the unnamed SNP but negative for both FGC8507 & Z153.

Cdanel
08-27-2016, 03:41 PM
Hi Gary Corbett,
My brother hasn't taken the Big Y yet but I'm working on him! Just saw that my dad Fernand (L259) is also Z155. Negative Z154. I saw others on this post were positive for both. Fernand as you know was from the Northeast part of France. South of Calais.
Cindy

Gary Corbett
08-28-2016, 01:51 AM
Hi Cindy.
Nice to see you here again,been too long.
Please let us know when you get your brother worn down.

Bwitlox_s1688
07-03-2017, 11:09 AM
Chre Cindy,

You have now repeated several times that your dad was from the Northeast of France, south of Calais. But Calais is in the North WEST of France. Pretty important difference. :ranger:

Bwitlox_s1688
07-03-2017, 12:12 PM
By the way, in Iains table I am Witlox 291542 = BY11542 .

:biggrin1:

Bwitlox_s1688
07-03-2017, 12:20 PM
My paper trail is going back to Brabant in 1300.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27s-Hertogenbosch

:)

RubenK
11-17-2017, 07:43 PM
Dear sir, I have just received my dna test at the genographic project, which goes back to FGC8507 as well (directly from R-Z30). What does it say? Best regards, Ruben - the Netherlands

Wing Genealogist
11-17-2017, 08:05 PM
Dear sir, I have just received my dna test at the genographic project, which goes back to FGC8507 as well (directly from R-Z30). What does it say? Best regards, Ruben - the Netherlands

Re your Genographic Results from Helix? I know the Genographic Project in the U.S. is now handled by Helix, but last I knew, they were not handling the Genographic Project outside of the U.S. (this might have changed).

If your Geno results are not from Helix, you should be able to transfer them to FTDNA (no fee) as the FTDNA lab actually processed the kit. As far as I know, FTDNA does not accept Geno results from Helix.

RubenK
11-17-2017, 08:14 PM
I have entered my genographic results on the FTDNA-website, which is accessible (for free) with my results indeed. This is where I got more results about my haplogroup. For more options I have to pay. So yes, I do have access to FTDNA. Sorry to disturb you with these questions, but this interesting content is all very new to me.

Cdanel
01-06-2018, 05:14 PM
Chère Cindy,

You have now repeated several times that your dad was from the Northeast of France, south of Calais. But Calais is in the North WEST of France. Pretty important difference. :ranger:
—�—�—�—�

Hi Bwitlox,

My dad’s father, grandfather, etc (confirmed by French paternal birth records to 1615)are from the northeast of France. They’re from the Hesdin area which is about 40 miles south of Calais and 60 miles west of the Belgium border. Pretty sure that’s northeast. :)

Cindy

Jan_Noack
02-18-2018, 02:32 AM
My husband received his BigY results from FTDNA.
(brackets give SNPs about same position ) until clarified by further testing.
He is
U106+,
Z2265 untested(predicted as +ve), BY30097 untested(predicted as +ve),
Z381+
Z301 untested(predicted as +ve),
L48 presumed -ve ..to check as his haplotree shows no negative , only presumed negative
S1688 + ( S1684 +),
U198 presumed -ve ..to check as his haplotree shows no negative , only presumed negative
BY11542(tested +ve).
as he tested tested positive for BY11542, I assume he is negative for FGC8512 and
Z155 (L259), presumed negative under FGC8512
Z154 presumed negative under Z155.
Does this fit in here at all? I guess we are all under S1688?
His ancestry is from Kent, England since 1600's ? at least.

Jan_Noack
02-18-2018, 02:45 AM
By the way, in Iains table I am Witlox 291542 = BY11542 .

:biggrin1:
My husband is BY11542. Kent, England definite paper trail back to mid 1700's around Beneden , Kent with same surname and could pick a few likely paper trails back to early 1600's in close proximity in Kent. He is not in any Y-tree as yet. BigY results received end Jan 18.
His Unnamed Variants did not match any in the group listed with BY11542 I saw in a tree, but one of his unnamed variants matched someone else close by (under S1688, but not in group with BY11542)..so I figure a bit of tree rearranging?
It wasn't that he didn't match any of the unnamed variants either..it looks so far to me that he wasn't tested for any of the other variants that others have around him.
Also his group of unnamed variants (except for the one) were not in anyone elses group.( that I could see at a glance of those in the tree.)

Guess your male line wasn't ever in Kent at some stage? Maybe with William in 1066? LOL

My paper trail is going back to Brabant in 1300.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27s-Hertogenbosch

:)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Province_of_Brabant#/media/File:Map_of_the_Habsburg_Netherlands_by_Alexis-Marie_Gochet.png

http://maps.nls.uk/view/95750360 Beneden (ancestry 1750 probable) , Rolvenden (ancestry 1800-definite), HighHalden (ancestry 1600 - likely)- all in same area of Kent from 1600

not that far away from each other 1000 years ago. Now where did William the Conqueror come from exactly?
Ok he was from Normandy but he married from Flanders..and that bordered with Brabant ...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Burgundian-possessions-in-the-low-countries.png/500px-Burgundian-possessions-in-the-low-countries.png really close in 1400s

so could have been part of Flanders in 1066?..or ruled by William and "volunteers" from Brabant area could have gone with William to Kent in 1066 (need to check) more ..but it's a possibility.

Jan_Noack
02-19-2018, 02:54 AM
By the way, in Iains table I am Witlox 291542 = BY11542 .

:biggrin1:
My husband is BY11542. Kent, England definite paper trail back to mid 1700's around Beneden , Kent with same surname and could pick a few likely paper trails back to early 1600's in close proximity in Kent. He is not in any Y-tree as yet. BigY results received end Jan 18.
His Unnamed Variants did not match any in the group listed with BY11542 I saw in a tree, but one of his unnamed variants matched someone else close by (under S1688, but not in group with BY11542)..so I figure a bit of tree rearranging?
It wasn't that he didn't match any of the unnamed variants either..it looks so far to me that he wasn't tested for any of the other variants that others have around him.
Also his group of unnamed variants (except for the one) were not in anyone elses group.( that I could see at a glance of those in the tree.)

Guess your male line wasn't ever in Kent at some stage? Maybe with William in 1066? LOL

My paper trail is going back to Brabant in 1300.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27s-Hertogenbosch

:)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Province_of_Brabant#/media/File:Map_of_the_Habsburg_Netherlands_by_Alexis-Marie_Gochet.png

http://maps.nls.uk/view/95750360 Beneden (ancestry 1750 probable) , Rolvenden (ancestry 1800-definite), HighHalden (ancestry 1600 - likely)- all in same area of Kent from 1600

not that far away from each other 1000 years ago. Now where did William the Conqueror come from exactly?
Ok he was from Normandy but he married from Flanders..and that bordered with Brabant ...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Burgundian-possessions-in-the-low-countries.png/500px-Burgundian-possessions-in-the-low-countries.png really close in 1400s

so could have been part of Flanders in 1066?..or ruled by William and "volunteers" from Brabant area could have gone with William to Kent in 1066 (need to check) more ..but it's a possibility.
---------------------------------------

Doing a google search I came up with deleted posts from Flickr from 2008-2009 " I am Bjorn Witlox and my family dates back to 1300 in North Brabant, The Netherlands". "the earliest ancestor I know of is from 1300 near Tilburg Netherlands."
"Celtic? I know the Celts lived in my area. Gaul."

And I have heard that names ending in an "x" are supposed to be "Gaul" ?
and "I discovered my haplotype is connected to the Cimbri and its branches like the Nervii. My haplotype is also connected to the Normans of Norway......r1b1c10" ...
https://www.flickr.com/groups/genographic/discuss/72157604961245290/72157609610508432/

--------------------------------

some change to BY11542 these days
I still looking at where BY11542 maybe came from originally ..looks like Gaul or Norman or Anglo-Saxon still even. I had read that R-U106 or the S1688 branch of it? was thought to be Germanic , and thought maybe the Saxons in Kent from 500AD, so Anglo-Saxon. I still haven't ruled this out. Perhaps if we find another match :)

It could always be that the Saxons (or Angles)..I'm still unsure where they came from ..except on the coast , west and south Of Jutland (Denmark) went to Kent and over to Brabant then back again...
-----------------------

Jan_Noack
02-19-2018, 03:19 AM
Z301 is the large subclade that has both the monster L48 lineage and U198 so these are the people that are Z301+ but negative for those two subclades.

U198 is the subclade that has been around for a while, also labeled as S29. It is more common in England and Germany but hard to find in Scandinavia. The Old Norway Project does have U198 show up in Ostergotland, if I remember, basically Baltic facing.

f106361 Cannon R1b-U106>Z381>Z301** Z301+ L132+ U198- L48- Z154- L5- L6- P107- s381301- uas England
f245863 Coleman R1b-U106>Z381>Z301* Z301+ U198- L48- L6- P107- L217- s381301-56513 England
f97148 Coleman R1b-U106>Z381>Z301* Z301+ U198- L48- L6- P107- L217- s381301-56513 England
f89750 Corbett R1b-U106>Z381>Z301* Z301+ U198- L48- P107- s381301-154-2510 zzCountry UK
f104946 Dick R1b-U106>Z381>Z301** Z301+ U198- L48- Z154- L5- L6- P107- L217- s381301- uas Ireland

f42776 Glass R1b-U106>Z381>Z301** Z301+ U198- L48- Z154- P107- s381301a-40611 Germany, Baden-Wrttemberg

I continue to be surprised that some of these early branching paragroup people seem to be more likely from southern Germany rather than northern.

Hi Mike, 4.3 yrs after your initial post, see my post directly above titled BY11542 Brabant and Kent on my thoughts on origins. (longer time frame say 300AD-1300AD ?)
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1315-Z301*-(U106-gt-Z381-gt-Z301)-Z301-L48-U198&p=351448#post351448

It was great to locate someone else from near BY11542.

Has anyone further thoughts on origins of S1688 or BY11542 from more recent discoveries from BigY?

Bwitlox_s1688
02-19-2018, 08:41 AM
Okay check your compass again then. Calais is in the west of france.

johnp
02-19-2018, 10:07 AM
I hesitate to get involved in someone else's debate but Calais might be on the western coast of France but that does not place it in the west of France. There is a considerable chunk of the country that is more west than Calais. The region Hauts-de-France is the northernmost region so that places it firmly in France's geographical north - in fact the region straddles an imaginary longitudinal centre-line. Furthermore popular convention (in France) lumps H-de-F & Grand Est collectively together as the 'North-East' and Calais is a part of that.

Jan_Noack
02-22-2018, 02:40 AM
I hesitate to get involved in someone else's debate but Calais might be on the western coast of France but that does not place it in the west of France. There is a considerable chunk of the country that is more west than Calais. The region Hauts-de-France is the northernmost region so that places it firmly in France's geographical north - in fact the region straddles an imaginary longitudinal centre-line. Furthermore popular convention (in France) lumps H-de-F & Grand Est collectively together as the 'North-East' and Calais is a part of that.
wow I would have said Calais was the north west of France too... if you take the northern boundary of France , Calais is the most westerly point on the northern boundary ..on the coast,to me, the north west coast. I would never have thought of interpreting it your way..but I guess you can, and the French do.

Let's agree on Calais is in the north of France on the coast near Kent in England and near the old Flanders coast in say 1400 too.
I'm on the the other side of the world, I personally would always interpret North -East France as over towards the alps not on the North- Western coast of France.

I always think of France as having a Western Coastline facing the Atlantic, running north into a north-western coast facing England and finishing around Calais as the most northerly point of its north west coast and a Southern Coastline (on the Mediterranean).

Actually I'm interested in where in the area in 1066, or earlier (say from 500AD) to about 1300. It seems like some of us come from fairly close areas -Kent and near olden day Flanders and nearby.

full web address starts with https: followed by
//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Burgundian--possessions-
in-the-low-countries.png/500px-Burgundian-possessions-in-the-low-countries.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Burgundian-possessions-in-the-low-countries.png/500px-Burgundian-possessions-in-the-low-countries.png

looking for an earlier map

palamede
03-02-2018, 11:19 PM
For French people, Calais is in the North (of France is implicit) . But we have to choose between the NW France and the NE France , Calais is in the NW.
In the Middle Age between 900AD and 1181, Calais was in the county of Flandres, then in the county of Boulogne until the conquest by the England king in 1347 and Englisk king has kept it during two centuries.
The coastal region of Boulogne-Calais was occupied by the Saxons and the local dialect has kept a strong influence. Flemish have been spoken inland from 600AD to 1000AD, but the local dialects were also strongly impregnated.

In Netherland, U106 is between 30 and 40%- average 37%
In Belgium U106 is between 20 (Wallony) and 30% (North of Belgium)) average 25%
In North of France, I suppose between 10 and 20% average ??

There was a dna project of Leuwen University in Belgium which gives the frequency by province in Belgium.

bwitlox
10-04-2019, 11:13 AM
Well, anyways. I am in the group (U106>Z381>Z301) Z301+ L48- U198-

Witlox from North Brabant, NL. Oldest known ancestor 1300.