PDA

View Full Version : The Tutankhamun DNA Project



PLogan
01-16-2018, 01:38 AM
https://www.igenea.com/en/tutankhamun

Ok... so I came across some controversy about King Tut's DNA and some supposed conspiracy to hide it. Just happened across this while looking at other stuff. Anyways, decided to do what we all do these days, Google it. Came across this website supposedly posting his Y-STR and stating he was R-M269. Say what?

Figured I'd look here to possibly get better insight into what the "truth" might be. Searched the forums and to my surprise, no hits on "King Tut". Anybody know anything about this subject matter?

Here's some excerpts....


Are you a direct male descendant of the Pharaos? iGENEA exclusively publishes the Y-DNA profile of Tutankhamun and starts the search for his last living relatives.

In the year 2009 extended DNA-tests had been carried out with the mummy of Tutankamun and other members for his family. These have only partially been published in February 2010. Despite several demands, the results of the Y-DNA tests have been shut away.


Tutankhamun belongs to the haplogroup R-M269, which more than 50% of all men in Western Europe belong to.

DYS# 393 390 19 391 385a 385b 439 389-1
Allele 13 24 8/14 11 11 14 10 13

DYS# 392 389-2 458 437 448 GATA H4 456 438
Allele 13 30 16 9/14 19 10 15 12
Y-DNA profile of Tutankhamun

TIA

RobinBMc
01-16-2018, 01:48 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_haplogroups_of_historic_people#Tutankhamun

"Tutankhamun's Y-DNA haplogroup was not published in the academic paper,[29][30][31] however iGENEA, a Swiss personal genomics company, claimed to have reconstructed King Tut's Y-DNA profile based on screencaps from a Discovery Channel documentary about the study."

This doesn't sound very reliable, if you ask me.

Silesian
01-16-2018, 01:50 AM
https://www.igenea.com/en/tutankhamun

Ok... so I came across some controversy about King Tut's DNA and some supposed conspiracy to hide it. Just happened across this while looking at other stuff. Anyways, decided to do what we all do these days, Google it. Came across this website supposedly posting his Y-STR and stating he was R-M269. Say what?

Figured I'd look here to possibly get better insight into what the "truth" might be. Searched the forums and to my surprise, no hits on "King Tut". Anybody know anything about this subject matter?

Here's some excerpts....





TIA
It would be odd if they released officially Ramses III strs and not KiIng Tut's
http://www.bmj.com/content/345/bmj.e8268.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGLfcUgXWNI
FAIK the results have never been made officially public. Nor have there been follow up testing. If you can find official paper -let us know.

PLogan
01-16-2018, 01:53 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_haplogroups_of_historic_people#Tutankhamun

"Tutankhamun's Y-DNA haplogroup was not published in the academic paper,[29][30][31] however iGENEA, a Swiss personal genomics company, claimed to have reconstructed King Tut's Y-DNA profile based on screencaps from a Discovery Channel documentary about the study."

This doesn't sound very reliable, if you ask me.

Good find.... Thanks!

I'm no Spencer Wells, but Tut being R1b just seemed odd.

PLogan
01-16-2018, 01:58 AM
AFAIK the results have never been made officially public. Nor have there been follow up testing. If you can find official paper -let us know.

So I guess that begs the question, why haven't they made it public? There are "tons" of DNA reports coming out all the time on ancient DNA samples, what's the big secret? Guess I kind of understand now why some folks were talking about controversy and conspiracy. I just thought it was because he got supposedly classified as R1b.

Strange...

Umer
01-16-2018, 02:00 AM
King Tut was New Kingdom. I don't think he's a good example of the traditional Egyptian.

PLogan
01-16-2018, 02:13 AM
Ok... here's what I've found so far... basically the initial test is challenged by many as possibly being the results of contamination. They're now utilizing new techniques to bypass soft tissue and get samples from inside bone and teeth.

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2017/06/29/mummy-dna-ancient-egyptians-middle-eastern-todays-african-mixed-population/



Even more surprisingly, when comparing the mummies’ DNA to modern Egyptians, the scientists found quite a bit of difference. Modern Egyptians have a significant amount -- about 20 percent -- of DNA traced to sub-saharan African. The mummies had much less -- 6 to 15 percent. The ancient Egyptians’ DNA more closely resembled modern day Middle Easterners.

....

This mummy DNA study is the most widely covered since King Tutenkhamun was sequenced in 2014. That study was controversial because of the level of DNA contamination which led some people to allege that King Tut was white or European.

....

The techniques for the 151-mummy study could potentially be used to re-analyze King Tut and family’s DNA because the technique looks for damage in the DNA before analyzing it. But only if access to the tomb can be granted. That may remain impossible given the current political climate in Egypt. One of the goals of analyzing DNA from ancient peoples is to understand the political relationships of the time. Ironically, access to those is dependent on current political relationships.

razyn
01-16-2018, 06:02 AM
This doesn't sound very reliable, if you ask me.

The unreliability is based on the suspicion (not held by everyone) that the sample tested was contaminated by some more recent handler of the remains. But the sequence they displayed on that Discovery Channel program was, indeed, readable if one captured a frame or three -- the camera was panning across it as displayed on a lab computer screen. So, those STR allele values were captured. And they do look rather like M269 values. The unresolved question is, whose?

Silesian
01-16-2018, 10:04 AM
So I guess that begs the question, why haven't they made it public? There are "tons" of DNA reports coming out all the time on ancient DNA samples, what's the big secret? Guess I kind of understand now why some folks were talking about controversy and conspiracy. I just thought it was because he got supposedly classified as R1b.

Strange...

I would think if paternal identity is in question[contamination]or a lot of samples[16]-that any scientific paper would mention the remote possibility that the sample does not belong to the King Tut dynastic line. The conclusions on identity by logic would precede the science of physical sickness/maladies and other attributes? Logic- one determines identity with proof- first.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/king-tut-dna/


Secretary General Zahi Hawass of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities teamed up with paleogeneticist Carsten Pusch from the University of Tübingen in Germany, to examine Tutankhamen and 10 royal mummies, including the two fetuses, presumed to be related to him for kinship, inherited disorders and infectious diseases. Five mummies that were thought to be unrelated served as morphological and genetic controls. Hawass, Pusch and 15 other scientists continue to perform detailed anthropological, radiological and genetic studies on the precious mummies in a lab built into the basement of the Museum of Egyptian Antiquities in Cairo—two floors below the famous golden mask.

After extracting tiny amounts of ancient DNA from the mummies' bones, the researchers amplified 16 short tandem repeats (short sequences in the DNA that create a genetic fingerprint) and eight polymorphic microsatellites (hereditary molecular markers) to testable quantities using techniques commonly employed in criminal or paternity investigations. They also looked for DNA sequences from the malaria pathogen.

Based on their results so far, the researchers were able to name several mummies who were previously anonymous (referred to only by tomb number), including Tut's grandmother "Tiye" and Tut's father, the KV55 mummy probably named "Akhenaten". "This is the most important discovery since the finding of the tomb of Tutankhamen in 1922," Hawass says. The team also identified the mummy likely to be Tut's mother as KV35YL, not Queen Nefertiti as was once thought. "Now I'm sure that it cannot be Nefertiti, and therefore the mother of King Tut is one of the daughters of Amenhotep III and Tiye—and there are five," Hawass says, adding that he plans to investigate this further........
"The more data we collected, the more the museum specimens came back to life," Pusch says, who admits he was worried about working with such ancient "pharaohic" DNA. "We had 16 mummies," Pusch explained. "You have a lot to do in the lab when you have a single mummy!" But the embalming process used to preserve these royal remains worked in Pusch's favor. "Some embalming really enhances the preservation of genetic material," he says.

Lupriac
11-07-2018, 07:09 PM
How correct is this claim? Would not he be more of an E1b1b man? :\

MTU
11-07-2018, 09:09 PM
Tut ankh Amun (TWT=DWD) this name is it modern form DAVIDA , DAWEDA , TAWEDO ,TAWETU, = ANKHAA (appearing like ) AMUN (God -the unseen)

The Partenal Lineage of TUT stretches back to the AHMOSE 17 Dynasty . This dynasty carries the name of the GOD YAH . IAH MZAA ( YAH begot him)


The Moon God YAH is equivalent of Djehuti (God of Wisdom and Intellect ) YAH is of Canaanite Origin meaning the Kings of the 17th Dynasty had close ties to Canaan they war probably a group of Egypto Canaanites who had settled in Egypt over the Periods of Mass migrations from Canaan either through marriage or cultural assimilation had become Egyptians and war involved in the war of reparation against Hyksos occupation of Egypt.

The use of the GOD name YAH suggest a Canaanite or Northern canaanites origin INDO EUROPEANS who had migrated ,settled and became Egyptians over the Periods of Migration ,conquests and intensified relationships with Canaan .

YAH MOSES and TWT (DWD) DAVID sound very similar to biblical narratives names. The period between the 12th and 17th Dynasties was characterized by massive interactions with Canaan , big Migrations and complete take over of Egypt by Canaanites hence R1b is likely to be TWT ANKH AMN Paternal lineage of Canaanite , Hurrian , or Mittani origin

Lupriac
11-09-2018, 03:12 PM
But Carsten Pusch, a geneticist at Germany's University of Tubingen who was part of the team that unraveled Tut's DNA from samples taken from his mummy and mummies of his family members, said that iGENEA's claims are "simply impossible." Pusch and his colleagues published part of their results, though not the Y-chromosome DNA, in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) in 2010. The Y chromosome is the sex chromosome found only in males, and looking at the genes in this chromosome would show Tut's male lineage.

But people hoping to prove that they've got an ancestor in common with the notoriously sickly boy king should take iGENEA's claims with a grain of salt, Pusch said: "It appears that they try to better sell their DNA testing kit by using the media attention connected to King Tut."

A more basic criticism of iGENEA's claim is that they didn't have access to the DNA at all before they made their analysis. Although the DNA test which matched Tutankhamun to Akhenaten and Amenhotep III was done with the actual tissue of the mummy, iGENEA admits that they reconstructed the haplotype by watching the Discovery channel episode, where a computer screen shows the data that they needed to do their analysis -- the DNA itself has "been locked away" and is not available to other researchers.

Even this guy who commented on a website, lol: The meme circulating about the alleged R1b Y-DNA results of King Tut is based on a Nat Geo video segment showing a DYS393 marker allelle of 9. If this represents his accurate number then there is a 95.3% probability of Y-DNA HG L , 1% for R1b and the remainder with various other groups according to Whit Athey’s HG predictor. There is no official nor published peer-reviewed release of any Y-Dna results for Tut.

The fact that the 18th dynasty is Theban makes E-V12 or E-V22 or T a more legit claim to his Y-DNA. (Unless the 18th dynasty is of Hittite origins, or Akhenaten or someone was a Hittite who was adopted etc..)

High time they actually publish the results for him and Ramesses III, It'd be great if they could get their hands on Ramesses II too..