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Sangarius
01-22-2018, 06:15 PM
Avgi, a young girl aged 9,000 years old, among the first inhabitants of what is today known as Greece, was introduced for the first time to Athenians on Friday, in the Museum of Acropolis. Avgi (or “Dawn”) lived at the end of the Mesolithic Period, around 7000 BC, and called home the Cave of Theopetra in Thessaly, Central Greece, where she was buried after her precocious death aged between 18 and 25. Her remains were brought to light by chief archaeologist Nina Kyparissi – Apostolika of the Ephorate for Paleoanthropology and Speleology. Theopetra is the first cave to have been excavated in Thessaly and the only one to date with Mesolithic deposits. The remains of the girl, named by Orthodontist Prof. Manolis Papagrigorakis after the dawn of civilization in Greece, were recovered in 1993, while the reconstruction of her features involved an international team including the Swedish laboratory of archaeologist and sculptor Oscar Nilsson, specialising in reconstructions.
https://greekcitytimes.com/neolithic-girls-reconstructed-face-unveiled-athens-acropolis-museum-2/amp/

https://greekcitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Avgi.png

https://greekcitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Screen-Shot-2018-01-21-at-6.03.05-pm.png


What a ... beauty.:biggrin1: I would probably break my hand if I punched her in the face.

And just for fun the only user comment of the article:

Interesting! How does her DNA compare to the other girl? To modern people? She appears a bit more white than modern greeks and the first girl reconstructed? Did they even get DNA? Was there a cause of death? How did she get preserved so long?

Batroun
01-22-2018, 06:19 PM
So Greeks of today mostly have the same ancestry as the ancient Greeks correct? I'm not too sure how true the theories of foreign conquest bringing new admixture to Greeks is...

Lion Heart
01-23-2018, 05:36 AM
that girl has thicker jaws than a bodybuilder on stereroids.

Sangarius
01-23-2018, 12:09 PM
So Greeks of today mostly have the same ancestry as the ancient Greeks correct? I'm not too sure how true the theories of foreign conquest bringing new admixture to Greeks is...

By "ancient Greeks" do you mean Myceneans? It looks like modern Greeks (also depends on the region) can be modelled as deriving about 70% of their ancestry from Myceneans, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they do. But I don't want to get into that here. If you are referring to Aegean/Anatolian Neolithic ancestry in modern Greeks, I believe estimates are around 50%. Not sure on that, though.

Helgenes50
01-23-2018, 12:37 PM
Probably Helen of Troy, for whom all the Greeks fought

MonkeyDLuffy
01-23-2018, 01:13 PM
Looks a bit like Jim Carrey on steroids.

Mis
01-23-2018, 01:18 PM
Now you know why the Sacred Band of Thebes was born

Kale
01-23-2018, 07:48 PM
Wouldn't 7000bc in any part of Europe be Mesolithic? She definitely looks like other mesolithic individuals.

Sangarius
01-23-2018, 08:55 PM
Wouldn't 7000bc in any part of Europe be Mesolithic? She definitely looks like other mesolithic individuals.

I wondered about that, too. She seems to be rather from the end of the Mesolithic. Her reconstruction certainly doesn't show signs of physical adaptation to farming.

Batroun
01-24-2018, 01:45 AM
By "ancient Greeks" do you mean Myceneans? It looks like modern Greeks (also depends on the region) can be modelled as deriving about 70% of their ancestry from Myceneans, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they do. But I don't want to get into that here. If you are referring to Aegean/Anatolian Neolithic ancestry in modern Greeks, I believe estimates are around 50%. Not sure on that, though.

Interesting yet not surprising..so by ancient Greeks I mean those Greeks who lived post Bronze Age Collapse and pre Roman conquest

PaintedPonies
01-24-2018, 02:14 AM
Very neat

Gravetto-Danubian
01-24-2018, 03:58 AM
Wouldn't 7000bc in any part of Europe be Mesolithic?

Yes she is from Theopetra cave, a notable Mesolithic site (but also Neolithic layers)


She definitely looks like other mesolithic individuals.
At face value, she looks like a 'robust Europoid'. But we are still to see where Greek-Aegean Mesolithics sit on a global PCA.

poi
01-24-2018, 05:45 AM
Yes she is from Theopetra cave, a notable Mesolithic site (but also Neolithic layers)


At face value, she looks like a 'robust Europoid'. But we are still to see where Greek-Aegean Mesolithics sit on a global PCA.

That was funny.

Sikeliot
01-26-2018, 12:44 PM
Interesting yet not surprising..so by ancient Greeks I mean those Greeks who lived post Bronze Age Collapse and pre Roman conquest

Modern Greeks are a diverse group. Mainlanders, compared to ancient Greeks likely have up to 30% Slavic (but not all will have this much) as the Slavic conquest did impact Greece even if it did not result in complete assimilation. Greeks from Anatolia are similar to other native Anatolians and Caucasus people. And as you know, Aegean islanders are closer to Sicilians. So all of these groups are varied too much to say for sure.

RobinBMc
01-26-2018, 03:51 PM
Looks a bit like Jim Carrey on steroids.

I thought she looked like Val Kilmer :lol:

K33
01-26-2018, 04:36 PM
Yes she is from Theopetra cave, a notable Mesolithic site (but also Neolithic layers)


At face value, she looks like a 'robust Europoid'. But we are still to see where Greek-Aegean Mesolithics sit on a global PCA.My money is on Mesolithic Greeks more closely resembling Anatolian foragers/early farmers than WHGs. The Greek Middle Neolithic samples we have cluster right next to Anatolia_Kumtepe across the Aegean and lacked the WHG-shift displayed by MN farmers in Western and Central Europe.

https://i.imgur.com/9AR3JVt.jpg

moesan
01-26-2018, 10:30 PM
this girl, if not pure "mesolithiclike" seems having inherited more from the Mesolithic people than from Neolithic 'danubian' anatolan mediters - in this reconstruction she even looks a bit "viril"...
& bodybuilt with anabolisants cannot change too much the bone structures of an adult in my mind.

Saetro
01-27-2018, 12:39 AM
that girl has thicker jaws than a bodybuilder on stereroids.

Read the paper.
The authors considered the appearance of the lower jaw due to occupational not genetic factors.

surbakhunWeesste
01-27-2018, 02:08 AM
Aesthetics. Too bad she couldn't go under the knives nor could groom, prolly was busy surviving.

yelmex
01-27-2018, 05:57 PM
This was probably the standard of beauty back in her time and place.

Cassoulet
01-27-2018, 10:03 PM
So, is she WHG or EEF ?

Bas
01-27-2018, 10:15 PM
So, is she WHG or EEF ?

7000 BC would put her in the Hunter Gatherer frame but HGs from this sort of area probably contributed a fair bit anyway to those Anatolians that later became EEF. Greek HGs may even have been pretty much the same as Mesolithic Central/NW Anatolians. I guess the only thing missing from these pops on their way to becoming EEF is a bit of Levant Neolithic.

I stand to be corrected on that though.

pegasus
01-28-2018, 12:02 AM
She is too robust for a farmer woman, they made her look like an upper paleolithic man.

parasar
01-28-2018, 04:49 AM
Theo1?
"The mitochondrial haplogroups of two additional less well-preserved Greek Mesolithic individuals (Theo1, Theo5; SI Appendix, Table S6) belong to lineages observed in Neolithic farmers from across Europe; consistent with Aegean Neolithic populations, unlike central European Neolithic populations, being the direct descendants of the preceding Mesolithic peoples who inhabited broadly the same region."
http://www.pnas.org/content/113/25/6886.full

poi
01-28-2018, 05:10 AM
She is too robust for a farmer woman, they made her look like an upper paleolithic man.

They did say that her robust jaws were due to extensive chewing of animal skin to make soft leather. So, adapted to have robust jaw, ironically, to make clothes.

pegasus
01-28-2018, 10:01 AM
They did say that her robust jaws were due to extensive chewing of animal skin to make soft leather. So, adapted to have robust jaw, ironically, to make clothes.

I don't think have heavy set jaws is an adaptive trait to chewing leather to make clothes , it would have worn her teeth, as did eating the einkorn wheat they ate. She is even verging on a Neanderthal like robustness.

MonkeyDLuffy
01-28-2018, 10:58 AM
This is what peak performance looks like.

Awale
01-28-2018, 12:28 PM
By "ancient Greeks" do you mean Myceneans? It looks like modern Greeks (also depends on the region) can be modelled as deriving about 70% of their ancestry from Myceneans, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they do. But I don't want to get into that here. If you are referring to Aegean/Anatolian Neolithic ancestry in modern Greeks, I believe estimates are around 50%. Not sure on that, though.

Quite right about the ~70% depending on the region (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2017/10/lowdown-on-recent-minoan-and-mycenaean.html). As for the Aegean/Anatolian Neolithic seemingly native* to Greece itself, it seems more like it's at ~30% but I'm sure it's different in some regions:


distance%=0.3222 / distance=0.003222

Greek_Thessaly

Anatolia_BA 29.5
Srubnaya 28.3
Greece_N 27.9
Polish 14.3

---

distance%=0.1906 / distance=0.001906

Greek_Peloponnese

Srubnaya 36.8
Anatolia_BA 32.3
Greece_N 30.9
Polish 0.0

It kinda makes sense when you consider that the Minoans can be modeled as like 30-35% Anatolian Bronze-Age while the Mycenaeans can be modeled as something simialr to Minoans + 15% MLBA-Steppe whilst various modern mainland Greeks can be in turn run as something Mycenaean-like + extra steppe and some Slavic speaker associated admixture; the Neolithic inhabitants of Greece have found themselves quite thoroughly diluted by later expansions but it appears they're still a significant portion of the ancestry in modern Greeks.

* As in not owed to steppe or Anatolian Bronze-Age-related admixture but seemingly from local Neolithic farmers in Greece itself.

Sangarius
01-28-2018, 12:48 PM
Quite right about the ~70% depending on the region (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2017/10/lowdown-on-recent-minoan-and-mycenaean.html). As for the Aegean/Anatolian Neolithic seemingly native* to Greece itself, it seems more like it's at ~30% but I'm sure it's different in some regions:


distance%=0.3222 / distance=0.003222

Greek_Thessaly

Anatolia_BA 29.5
Srubnaya 28.3
Greece_N 27.9
Polish 14.3

---

distance%=0.1906 / distance=0.001906

Greek_Peloponnese

Srubnaya 36.8
Anatolia_BA 32.3
Greece_N 30.9
Polish 0.0

It kinda makes sense when you consider that the Minoans can be modeled as like 30-35% Anatolian Bronze-Age while the Mycenaeans can be modeled as something simialr to Minoans + 15% MLBA-Steppe whilst various modern mainland Greeks can be in turn run as something Mycenaean-like + extra steppe and some Slavic speaker associated admixture; the Neolithic inhabitants of Greece have found themselves quite thoroughly diluted by later expansions but it appears they're still a significant portion of the ancestry in modern Greeks.

* As in not owed to steppe or Anatolian Bronze-Age-related admixture but seemingly from local Neolithic farmers in Greece itself.

Oh yeah, I'm sure you are correct. I.e. local Neolithic ancestry is probably lower. It was a ballpark estimate based on the table below. Seems like I didn't even account for EEF ancestry of the admixing Steppe population, as no estimates are provided.

http://pichoster.net/images/2018/01/22/eb5227b08603f8fbeaac142f6276d662.png

Saetro
02-05-2018, 08:31 PM
I don't think have heavy set jaws is an adaptive trait to chewing leather to make clothes , it would have worn her teeth, as did eating the einkorn wheat they ate. She is even verging on a Neanderthal like robustness.

I don't think they are talking about inherited adaptation.
I think they are talking about physical adaptation from undertaking this occupation from an early age.
(Personally, I don't understand this either, as I know of no similar examples. They seem to. Have seen examples of other bones thickening due to occupation, though.)
And if this work was hard on the jaw anyway, wouldn't you select those people with stronger jaws in the first place?
So perhaps the basic shape was there to begin with, and the occupation merely caused thickening.

Aleph
02-13-2021, 04:57 PM
Theo1?
"The mitochondrial haplogroups of two additional less well-preserved Greek Mesolithic individuals (Theo1, Theo5; SI Appendix, Table S6) belong to lineages observed in Neolithic farmers from across Europe; consistent with Aegean Neolithic populations, unlike central European Neolithic populations, being the direct descendants of the preceding Mesolithic peoples who inhabited broadly the same region."
http://www.pnas.org/content/113/25/6886.full

They had the mtDNA K but then so did some mesolithic HGs of Balkans. The following had K and H13, which are associated with ANF:

Target,Distance,ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso,RUS_Sid elkino_HG,TUR_Barcin_N
SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5407,0.05314737,69.4,23.8,6.8
ROU_Iron_Gates_HG:I4081,0.05725229,58.2,30.6,11.2
SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5238,0.05889616,58.6,32.6,8.8
SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5244,0.04581432,66.2,24.0,9.8
Average,0.05377753,63.1,27.8,9.2

All of them also have ANF autosomal ancestry, but only a little bit of it. As such, it should not be surprising to find mostly non-Anatolian Balkan hunter gatherers having Anatolian lineages. Prior to the full on migration of farmers into the Balkans and Greece, there was some minor Anatolian ancestry among the inhabitants and what little of it existed was mostly maternally derived.

Aleph
02-13-2021, 05:05 PM
I don't think have heavy set jaws is an adaptive trait to chewing leather to make clothes , it would have worn her teeth, as did eating the einkorn wheat they ate. She is even verging on a Neanderthal like robustness.

The jaw appearance might be so because of her overall narrow profile. Her dry skull width was 129 mm and bizygomatic width was 114 mm. As such if she had the jaw width of the hotu cave females of ~100 mm (for example) then it would look excessive compared to her overall face width.