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Sapporo
01-25-2018, 06:22 PM
If you have any kit no., please run some results. I used A Butt's kit and think I might have found another Kashmiri Muslim result through his matches list:

Kit No. T465007 - Zaman

Y-DNA: H

No mt-DNA listed.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 38.61
2 S-Indian 31.78
3 Caucasian 14.45
4 NE-Euro 8.83
5 American 1.55
6 NE-Asian 1.5
7 Siberian 0.99
8 SW-Asian 0.86
9 Papuan 0.81
10 Beringian 0.5
11 SE-Asian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 2.54
2 kashmiri (harappa) 2.74
3 punjabi (harappa) 3.92
4 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 3.95
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.04
6 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 4.88
7 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 5.64
8 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 5.7
9 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 5.77
10 sindhi (harappa) 5.79
11 up-muslim (harappa) 6.76
12 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.81
13 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 6.91
14 punjabi-arain (xing) 7.15
15 pathan (hgdp) 8.83
16 sindhi (hgdp) 9.39
17 nepalese-a (xing) 9.57
18 bhatia (harappa) 9.62
19 burusho (hgdp) 10.38
20 haryana-jatt (harappa) 10.99

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.8% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.2% georgian (behar) @ 1.47
2 96.7% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.3% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 1.49
3 96.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.6% armenian (behar) @ 1.62
4 96.3% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.7% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 1.65
5 53.2% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 46.8% kashmiri (harappa) @ 1.65
6 96.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.6% azerbaijan-jew (behar) @ 1.65
7 96.9% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.1% druze (hgdp) @ 1.66
8 96.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.6% adygei (hgdp) @ 1.66
9 96.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.6% assyrian (harappa) @ 1.68
10 96.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.6% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 1.68
11 96.5% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.5% georgia-jew (behar) @ 1.68
12 95.7% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 4.3% kurd (yunusbayev) @ 1.7
13 96.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.6% iranian-jew (behar) @ 1.71
14 95.8% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 4.2% kurd (xing) @ 1.73
15 96.1% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.9% uzbekistan-jew (behar) @ 1.73
16 96.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.6% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) @ 1.73
17 96.2% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.8% chechen (yunusbayev) @ 1.73
18 96% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 4% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 1.74
19 95.9% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 4.1% azeri (harappa) @ 1.75
20 96.6% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.4% iraq-jew (behar) @ 1.75

Found another:

Kit No: M395810

Y-DNA: Q1*
mt-DNa: M4a

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 37.24
2 S-Indian 30.98
3 Caucasian 14.45
4 NE-Euro 10.42
5 NE-Asian 2.34
6 Beringian 1
7 Mediterranean 0.83
8 SW-Asian 0.8
9 Papuan 0.68
10 American 0.51
11 San 0.44
12 SE-Asian 0.31
13 Pygmy 0.03


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri (harappa) 2.64
2 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 3.75
3 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 3.91
4 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.48
5 punjabi (harappa) 4.9
6 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 5.58
7 sindhi (harappa) 6.16
8 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 6.27
9 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.43
10 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 6.5
11 up-muslim (harappa) 6.72
12 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 6.78
13 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 7.88
14 punjabi-arain (xing) 8.5
15 pathan (hgdp) 8.62
16 nepalese-a (xing) 9.22
17 haryana-jatt (harappa) 9.62
18 burusho (hgdp) 9.95
19 bhatia (harappa) 10.11
20 sindhi (hgdp) 10.63

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.2% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 10.8% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 1.95
2 89.3% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 10.7% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 1.96
3 89.4% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 10.6% adygei (hgdp) @ 2.04
4 90.9% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 9.1% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 2.18
5 91.2% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 8.8% georgian (behar) @ 2.2
6 79% kashmiri (harappa) + 21% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.27
7 89.5% kashmiri (harappa) + 10.5% up-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.32
8 88.2% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 11.8% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 2.32
9 90.7% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 9.3% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 2.32
10 90.8% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 9.2% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 2.33
11 88.7% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 11.3% chechen (yunusbayev) @ 2.34
12 92% kashmiri (harappa) + 8% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) @ 2.37
13 83.3% kashmiri (harappa) + 16.7% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) @ 2.37
14 72.6% kashmiri (harappa) + 27.4% punjabi-khatri (harappa) @ 2.41
15 89.6% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 10.4% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 2.42
16 90.9% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 9.1% adygei (hgdp) @ 2.43
17 74.5% kashmiri (harappa) + 25.5% kashmiri-pandit (reich) @ 2.43
18 91.4% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 8.6% georgian (harappa) @ 2.43
19 90% kashmiri (harappa) + 10% haryana-jatt (harappa) @ 2.43
20 89.9% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 10.1% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) @ 2.44




So, far, other than A Butt + Koshur_Sam, these may be the 3rd and 4th fully Kashmiri Muslim results I've seen. I wish 23andMe still had its old search functions. I would just search for surnames like Lone, Mir, Wani & Dar to convince them to upload their raw DNA to Gedmatch.

MonkeyDLuffy
01-25-2018, 08:17 PM
TIP : Search Kit number of kashmiris in one to many matches to find more kashmiris, inbreeding makes all of them related to each other. That's how I usually find matches for people.

Butt - Kit M500224

YDNA - J2
MtDNA - R5a2

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 37.54
2 S-Indian 33.25
3 Caucasian 14.6
4 NE-Euro 8.39
5 Beringian 1.72
6 NE-Asian 1.4
7 Papuan 1.12
8 American 1.04
9 W-African 0.51
10 Siberian 0.29
11 Mediterranean 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 3.31
2 kashmiri (harappa) 3.97
3 punjabi (harappa) 4.39
4 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.47
5 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 5.18
6 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.38
7 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 5.57
8 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 6.09
9 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 6.14
10 up-muslim (harappa) 6.16
11 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 7.27
12 sindhi (harappa) 7.69
13 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 8.19
14 punjabi-arain (xing) 8.35
15 nepalese-a (xing) 9.81
16 up-brahmin (harappa) 10.24
17 sindhi (hgdp) 10.63
18 pathan (hgdp) 10.66
19 bhatia (harappa) 11.56
20 burusho (hgdp) 11.87

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.7% kalash (hgdp) + 24.3% north-kannadi (chaubey) @ 1.76
2 76.1% kalash (hgdp) + 23.9% kurumba (reich) @ 1.85
3 75.8% kalash (hgdp) + 24.2% hakkipikki (metspalu) @ 1.91
4 72.1% kalash (hgdp) + 27.9% chenchu (metspalu) @ 1.94
5 74.5% kalash (hgdp) + 25.5% tamil-vishwakarma (harappa) @ 2.08
6 76.9% kalash (hgdp) + 23.1% ap-mala (xing) @ 2.11
7 75.3% kalash (hgdp) + 24.7% ap-madiga (xing) @ 2.11
8 76.7% kalash (hgdp) + 23.3% tn-dalit (xing) @ 2.12
9 77% kalash (hgdp) + 23% mala (reich) @ 2.21
10 74.3% kalash (hgdp) + 25.7% bhil (reich) @ 2.21
11 75.5% kalash (hgdp) + 24.5% madiga (reich) @ 2.24
12 74.2% kalash (hgdp) + 25.8% sakilli (chaubey) @ 2.31
13 73.8% kalash (hgdp) + 26.2% chamar (metspalu) @ 2.33
14 70.7% kalash (hgdp) + 29.3% hallaki (reich) @ 2.36
15 73.2% kalash (hgdp) + 26.8% kamsali (reich) @ 2.38
16 62.1% kalash (hgdp) + 37.9% caribbean-indian (harappa) @ 2.49
17 88.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 11.6% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 2.54
18 69.9% kalash (hgdp) + 30.1% tharu (reich) @ 2.56
19 61.7% kalash (hgdp) + 38.3% ap-hyderabad (harappa) @ 2.69
20 70.3% kalash (hgdp) + 29.7% kol (metspalu) @ 2.69

Sapporo
01-25-2018, 08:24 PM
Thanks MonkeyDLuffy. I think it is noteworthy that every single one of these Kashmiris is scoring NE Asian. Not just the Siberian/Amerindian/Beringian that various NW Indians can score. Kashmiri Pandits usually score some NE Asian as well. The elevated Caucasus/lower NE Euro/+ some NE Asian tends to point to a Kashmiri admixture profile.

MonkeyDLuffy
01-25-2018, 08:26 PM
Baig

Ydna - C
Mtdna - R5a2

Kit M444259

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 36.72
2 S-Indian 33.87
3 NE-Euro 10.72
4 Caucasian 10.43
5 Mediterranean 2.23
6 SW-Asian 2.16
7 NE-Asian 1.76
8 Siberian 0.84
9 Beringian 0.68
10 American 0.58
11 Papuan 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi (harappa) 3.79
2 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 4
3 up-muslim (harappa) 4.11
4 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 4.19
5 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 4.39
6 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 5.12
7 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 5.36
8 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 5.48
9 kashmiri (harappa) 5.81
10 nepalese-a (xing) 5.96
11 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 6.63
12 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.69
13 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.72
14 up-brahmin (harappa) 7.13
15 punjabi-arain (xing) 8.24
16 sindhi (harappa) 8.72
17 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 9.47
18 haryana-jatt (harappa) 9.66
19 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 9.92
20 bihari-muslim (harappa) 10.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.2% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 28.8% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 2.14
2 55.7% kashmiri (harappa) + 44.3% up-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.15
3 86.8% up-brahmin (harappa) + 13.2% kurd (xing) @ 2.15
4 85.6% up-brahmin (harappa) + 14.4% iranian (behar) @ 2.16
5 89.6% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 10.4% romanian-b (behar) @ 2.21
6 63.2% kashmiri (harappa) + 36.8% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) @ 2.22
7 51% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 49% up-muslim (harappa) @ 2.25
8 86.2% up-brahmin (harappa) + 13.8% kurd (harappa) @ 2.28
9 89.9% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 10.1% irula (xing) @ 2.28
10 54.4% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 45.6% pathan (hgdp) @ 2.29
11 90% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 10% pulliyar (metspalu) @ 2.32
12 62.9% pathan (hgdp) + 37.1% sri-lankan (harappa) @ 2.32
13 60.5% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 39.5% bengali-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.35
14 50.7% vaish (reich) + 49.3% pathan (hgdp) @ 2.36
15 52.4% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 47.6% pathan (hgdp) @ 2.39
16 50.7% up-muslim (harappa) + 49.3% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) @ 2.39
17 83.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 16.5% turkmen (yunusbayev) @ 2.4
18 63.9% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) + 36.1% pashtun (harappa) @ 2.4
19 64.1% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 35.9% vaish (reich) @ 2.42
20 53.5% sindhi (harappa) + 46.5% bengali-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.47

MonkeyDLuffy
01-25-2018, 08:28 PM
Thanks MonkeyDLuffy. I think it is noteworthy that every single one of these Kashmiris is scoring NE Asian. Not just the Siberian/Amerindian/Beringian that various NW Indians can score. Kashmiri Pandits usually score some NE Asian as well. The elevated Caucasus/lower NE Euro/+ some NE Asian tends to point to a Kashmiri admixture profile.

Strong possibility it comes via Balti/Tibeti people which Kashmiri muslims mixed more in comparison to Kashmiri Hindus.

MonkeyDLuffy
01-25-2018, 08:40 PM
Surname listed as Khan, but most likely kashmiri.

YDna - H1a*
MtDna - M35b

Kit M116281

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 38.18
2 S-Indian 32.71
3 Caucasian 13.63
4 NE-Euro 9.48
5 Beringian 1.77
6 American 1.54
7 SW-Asian 1.18
8 SE-Asian 0.99
9 Papuan 0.28
10 San 0.13
11 Pygmy 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 2.77
2 punjabi (harappa) 3.65
3 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 3.74
4 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 4.05
5 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 4.06
6 kashmiri (harappa) 4.39
7 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 5.1
8 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 5.76
9 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 5.92
10 up-muslim (harappa) 6.17
11 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 6.59
12 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.75
13 sindhi (harappa) 6.89
14 punjabi-arain (xing) 7.45
15 nepalese-a (xing) 9.35
16 up-brahmin (harappa) 9.76
17 sindhi (hgdp) 9.77
18 pathan (hgdp) 9.82
19 bhatia (harappa) 10.46
20 haryana-jatt (harappa) 10.67

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.4% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 10.6% vysya (reich) @ 1.37
2 86.7% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 13.3% velama (metspalu) @ 1.38
3 87.8% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 12.2% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 1.39
4 89% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 11% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) @ 1.4
5 86% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 14% karnataka (harappa) @ 1.4
6 88.9% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 11.1% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) @ 1.4
7 87.8% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 12.2% tamil-vellalar (harappa) @ 1.41
8 88.4% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 11.6% kurumba (metspalu) @ 1.41
9 87.3% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 12.7% sinhalese (harappa) @ 1.43
10 85.5% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 14.5% tharu (metspalu) @ 1.46
11 83.4% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 16.6% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) @ 1.47
12 87.9% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 12.1% lodi (reich) @ 1.47
13 89% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 11% hallaki (reich) @ 1.47
14 85.9% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 14.1% andhra-pradesh (harappa) @ 1.47
15 88.3% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 11.7% dusadh (metspalu) @ 1.48
16 90.1% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 9.9% kamsali (reich) @ 1.49
17 84.5% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 15.5% ap-hyderabad (harappa) @ 1.49
18 90.6% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 9.4% sakilli (chaubey) @ 1.49
19 88.8% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 11.2% kol (metspalu) @ 1.5
20 88.2% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 11.8% tamil-nadar (harappa) @ 1.5

khanabadoshi
01-25-2018, 10:31 PM
Just to let you know, Zaman, is typically a Pashtun surname. However, many I've known are mixed.

bmoney
01-25-2018, 10:45 PM
All of their scores are remarkably similar - this is unusual even for upper castes

Maybe it was the isolation of the valley

MonkeyDLuffy
01-25-2018, 10:48 PM
Just to let you know, Zaman, is typically a Pashtun surname. However, many I've known are mixed.

Don't many Kashmiri muslims claim Pashtun or central asian ancestries? I know Suddans do, who are basically Dogra brahmins converts.

khanabadoshi
01-25-2018, 11:11 PM
Don't many Kashmiri muslims claim Pashtun or central asian ancestries? I know Suddans do, who are basically Dogra brahmins converts.

There probably are a decent amount of Kashmiris (or people of Kashmir, if not the ethnic group itself) with some Pashtun ancestry or Shina ancestry, claimed or otherwise.
However Zaman can also be a given first name, so this maybe this person's father's name, not the clan/tribe name. Otherwise, it's a known proper Pashtun surname in the region.

khanabadoshi
01-25-2018, 11:17 PM
Let me know when this Kashmiri list is done. Also, in a bit I'm going to compare list of Jatts and Ramgharias with you guys, to include what I don't have.
I'm making everyone's wish come true and running everything on Harappa... I'm like 350 people done out of like 1100 so far. Making a PCA, dendrogram... the whole 9 yards.

MonkeyDLuffy
01-26-2018, 12:12 AM
There probably are a decent amount of Kashmiris (or people of Kashmir, if not the ethnic group itself) with some Pashtun ancestry or Shina ancestry, claimed or otherwise.
However Zaman can also be a given first name, so this maybe this person's father's name, not the clan/tribe name. Otherwise, it's a known proper Pashtun surname in the region.

Also while I was going through kashmiri kit matches, your brother I believe or someone kashmiri in your family showed up as well there in first top 4 matches. Something like Khana's 2nd

pnb123
01-26-2018, 01:47 AM
Are Kashmiri Muslims scoring any differently from Kashmiri Hindus ?

Sapporo
01-26-2018, 02:26 AM
Also while I was going through kashmiri kit matches, your brother I believe or someone kashmiri in your family showed up as well there in first top 4 matches. Something like Khana's 2nd

Yeah, these Muslim Kashmiris are getting khana and his relatives as Gedmatch matches along with some Afghans. Along with their admixture profiles, it implies they’re actually of Koshur - Kashmir Valley ancestry.

I don’t believe Muslim Punjabis or Pahari speakers usually get those kinds of matches and they tend to score slightly different. However, I haven’t run enough kits to say it with full confidence.


Are Kashmiri Muslims scoring any differently from Kashmiri Hindus ?

Raina

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 37.57
2 S-Indian 32.21
3 Caucasian 11.4
4 NE-Euro 9
5 Siberian 2.4
6 Mediterranean 2.28
7 American 1.55
8 NE-Asian 1.26
9 Beringian 0.7
10 SE-Asian 0.55
11 SW-Asian 0.43
12 E-African 0.37
13 W-African 0.17
14 Pygmy 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 2.66
2 punjabi (harappa) 3.28
3 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 4.02
4 kashmiri (harappa) 4.21
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.4
6 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 4.47
7 up-muslim (harappa) 4.76
8 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 4.95
9 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 5.16
10 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.67
11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 5.97
12 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 6
13 punjabi-arain (xing) 6.93
14 nepalese-a (xing) 7.17
15 sindhi (harappa) 7.41
16 up-brahmin (harappa) 8.98
17 sindhi (hgdp) 9.55
18 haryana-jatt (harappa) 9.86
19 pathan (hgdp) 10.2
20 bhatia (harappa) 10.59

Bhan

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 36.03
2 S-Indian 33.05
3 Caucasian 14.7
4 NE-Euro 8.92
5 NE-Asian 4.01
6 Siberian 0.77
7 SW-Asian 0.7
8 Beringian 0.67
9 American 0.55
10 Mediterranean 0.29
11 Papuan 0.28
12 SE-Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri (harappa) 3.62
2 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 4.84
3 punjabi (harappa) 5.52
4 up-muslim (harappa) 5.97
5 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 6
6 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 6.04
7 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.42
8 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 6.57
9 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.12
10 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 7.13
11 sindhi (harappa) 8.23
12 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 8.4
13 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 8.95
14 nepalese-a (xing) 9.3
15 punjabi-arain (xing) 9.81
16 up-brahmin (harappa) 10.86
17 pathan (hgdp) 11.08
18 burusho (hgdp) 11.1
19 sindhi (hgdp) 12.04
20 haryana-jatt (harappa) 12.04

Dawar - married to an Arora

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 38.49
2 S-Indian 29.33
3 Caucasian 15.74
4 NE-Euro 9.49
5 NE-Asian 2.39
6 Siberian 1.5
7 American 1.42
8 SW-Asian 1.4
9 Papuan 0.15
10 Mediterranean 0.07
11 SE-Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri (harappa) 2.51
2 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 3.48
3 sindhi (harappa) 4.47
4 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 4.75
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 5.47
6 punjabi (harappa) 6.02
7 pathan (hgdp) 6.78
8 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.8
9 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 6.97
10 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 7.08
11 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.6
12 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 7.77
13 punjabi-arain (xing) 8.26
14 up-muslim (harappa) 8.54
15 bhatia (harappa) 8.63
16 burusho (hgdp) 8.76
17 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 8.91
18 kalash (hgdp) 9.27
19 sindhi (hgdp) 9.96
20 haryana-jatt (harappa)

See the results of Reich's samples on the 2nd tab below (labeled 4)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yroLfxb7NvkZ63tMJcRm-4yNH8PcXtzhJWm1Hpfr5-8/edit#gid=1750165129

nuplix
01-26-2018, 06:46 AM
Don't many Kashmiri muslims claim Pashtun or central asian ancestries? I know Suddans do, who are basically Dogra brahmins converts.

There are a lot of Suddhans in Rawalakot.

Afshar
01-26-2018, 07:46 AM
What is the difference between a Pandit and Jatt?

khanabadoshi
01-26-2018, 01:50 PM
Also while I was going through kashmiri kit matches, your brother I believe or someone kashmiri in your family showed up as well there in first top 4 matches. Something like Khana's 2nd

Khana's 2nd Cousin is Leghari Cousin from Bahwalpur, his maternal Grandmother is Lahori Punjabi. Probably the connection is via that. His father is full Leghari, his mother is half my tribe, half Punjabi.

khanabadoshi
01-26-2018, 01:53 PM
What is the difference between a Pandit and Jatt?

Others can answer better, but basically Pandit = Brahmin of Kashmir. Jatts are their own thing, existing outside the caste system for a long long time; also geographically not having much association with Kashmir at all until conquests later. So I suppose the difference is quite large in fact.

MonkeyDLuffy
01-26-2018, 02:02 PM
What is the difference between a Pandit and Jatt?

As khana said, Brahmins/Pandits are priest class in Hinduism, while Jatts are more like a land owning tribe found in all major 3 religions of south asia (Hinduism, Sikhism and Islam). Majority of Tribes of NW surprisingly don't fall under Hindu caste system even though it originated from there.

khanabadoshi
01-26-2018, 02:02 PM
Yeah, these Muslim Kashmiris are getting khana and his relatives as Gedmatch matches along with some Afghans. Along with their admixture profiles, it implies they’re actually of Koshur - Kashmir Valley ancestry.

I don’t believe Muslim Punjabis or Pahari speakers usually get those kinds of matches and they tend to score slightly different. However, I haven’t run enough kits to say it with full confidence.



Raina

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 37.57
2 S-Indian 32.21
3 Caucasian 11.4
4 NE-Euro 9
5 Siberian 2.4
6 Mediterranean 2.28
7 American 1.55
8 NE-Asian 1.26
9 Beringian 0.7
10 SE-Asian 0.55
11 SW-Asian 0.43
12 E-African 0.37
13 W-African 0.17
14 Pygmy 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 2.66
2 punjabi (harappa) 3.28
3 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 4.02
4 kashmiri (harappa) 4.21
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.4
6 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 4.47
7 up-muslim (harappa) 4.76
8 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 4.95
9 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 5.16
10 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.67
11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 5.97
12 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 6
13 punjabi-arain (xing) 6.93
14 nepalese-a (xing) 7.17
15 sindhi (harappa) 7.41
16 up-brahmin (harappa) 8.98
17 sindhi (hgdp) 9.55
18 haryana-jatt (harappa) 9.86
19 pathan (hgdp) 10.2
20 bhatia (harappa) 10.59

Bhan

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 36.03
2 S-Indian 33.05
3 Caucasian 14.7
4 NE-Euro 8.92
5 NE-Asian 4.01
6 Siberian 0.77
7 SW-Asian 0.7
8 Beringian 0.67
9 American 0.55
10 Mediterranean 0.29
11 Papuan 0.28
12 SE-Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri (harappa) 3.62
2 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 4.84
3 punjabi (harappa) 5.52
4 up-muslim (harappa) 5.97
5 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 6
6 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 6.04
7 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.42
8 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 6.57
9 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.12
10 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 7.13
11 sindhi (harappa) 8.23
12 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 8.4
13 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 8.95
14 nepalese-a (xing) 9.3
15 punjabi-arain (xing) 9.81
16 up-brahmin (harappa) 10.86
17 pathan (hgdp) 11.08
18 burusho (hgdp) 11.1
19 sindhi (hgdp) 12.04
20 haryana-jatt (harappa) 12.04

Dawar - married to an Arora

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 38.49
2 S-Indian 29.33
3 Caucasian 15.74
4 NE-Euro 9.49
5 NE-Asian 2.39
6 Siberian 1.5
7 American 1.42
8 SW-Asian 1.4
9 Papuan 0.15
10 Mediterranean 0.07
11 SE-Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri (harappa) 2.51
2 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 3.48
3 sindhi (harappa) 4.47
4 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 4.75
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 5.47
6 punjabi (harappa) 6.02
7 pathan (hgdp) 6.78
8 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.8
9 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 6.97
10 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 7.08
11 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.6
12 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 7.77
13 punjabi-arain (xing) 8.26
14 up-muslim (harappa) 8.54
15 bhatia (harappa) 8.63
16 burusho (hgdp) 8.76
17 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 8.91
18 kalash (hgdp) 9.27
19 sindhi (hgdp) 9.96
20 haryana-jatt (harappa)

See the results of Reich's samples on the 2nd tab below (labeled 4)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yroLfxb7NvkZ63tMJcRm-4yNH8PcXtzhJWm1Hpfr5-8/edit#gid=1750165129






If the matches are with my Uncle, Brother, Sister, or I -- then the match is via my Manto/Qureshi Kashmiri Grandmother. (surname Qureshi implies my grandmother is also mixed with Gujjar, but I don't know; Manto is proper Koshur from my understanding) I connected with my Father's confirmed 2nd cousin via 23andme, but I don't know if I have his Gedmatch # for him and his family.

If matches are coming via other parts of the family, then the route is different. If via Khana 2nd cousin the match is thru Punjab or via far NW,if Grandmother or her brother. If the match is via Khana mGF - Sister (sadia), then I have no plausible answer.

Look for strongest match with Khana pUncle - jam, as he is half Kashmiri.

parasar
01-26-2018, 05:22 PM
As khana said, Brahmins/Pandits are priest class in Hinduism, while Jatts are more like a land owning tribe found in all major 3 religions of south asia (Hinduism, Sikhism and Islam). Majority of Tribes of NW surprisingly don't fall under Hindu caste system even though it originated from there.

I think you mean the four tier varn system (essentially meaningless, especially in the deccan). Jats traditionally were the second highest 'caste' [as opposed to varn] in northern India, followed by the Gujjars, the craftsmen (Tarkhan etc.), and then the soldier class. Most (non Pandit) Brahmans were not that different from Jats and often at a lower tier.

surbakhunWeesste
01-26-2018, 05:33 PM
Just to let you know, Zaman, is typically a Pashtun surname. However, many I've known are mixed.

We don’t have surnames. Many of my family members hav different “surnames” lol. A lot of them
don’t wanna use the Zai/ khel which is our proper identification so they take more like a nom de plume sorta word. Some of them even use Iranian last names, sly, we are.
Zaman is used by a lot of Afghan Uzbeks as well.as
Zaman just means “time” in Pashto.

Just read your previous posts. Which area did you refer to, must be somewhere in Pakistan? A lot of zamanzai are durranis, unless the person you are referring to on gedmatch matches with us idk if they are of the same tribe or some other Pakhtun tribe from Pakistan. I found a lot of Indians with “durrani” lastname. Confuses the hell out of me.
All Pashtun Durranis are genetically related.

Sapporo
01-26-2018, 10:21 PM
Mahmood

Kit No. A756800

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 35.74
2 S-Indian 34.28
3 Caucasian 13.11
4 NE-Euro 8.95
5 NE-Asian 2.66
6 Siberian 1.67
7 American 1.63
8 SW-Asian 1.01
9 Papuan 0.49
10 Beringian 0.46

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 4.24
2 up-muslim (harappa) 4.36
3 kashmiri (harappa) 4.44
4 punjabi (harappa) 4.57
5 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 5.61
6 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 5.7
7 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 5.73
8 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 6.26
9 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 6.52
10 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.75
11 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 7.34
12 nepalese-a (xing) 8.13
13 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 8.72
14 sindhi (harappa) 8.86
15 up-brahmin (harappa) 9.08
16 punjabi-arain (xing) 9.48
17 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 10.95
18 bihari-muslim (harappa) 10.99
19 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 11.09
20 haryana-jatt (harappa) 11.87

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.3% kashmiri (harappa) + 18.7% srivastava (reich) @ 1.51
2 90.6% kashmiri (harappa) + 9.4% mala (reich) @ 1.57
3 90.5% kashmiri (harappa) + 9.5% tn-dalit (xing) @ 1.57
4 89.3% kashmiri (harappa) + 10.7% bhil (reich) @ 1.6
5 89% kashmiri (harappa) + 11% chamar (metspalu) @ 1.61
6 90% kashmiri (harappa) + 10% north-kannadi (chaubey) @ 1.61
7 89.4% kashmiri (harappa) + 10.6% tamil-vishwakarma (harappa) @ 1.61
8 89.8% kashmiri (harappa) + 10.2% ap-madiga (xing) @ 1.61
9 90.1% kashmiri (harappa) + 9.9% hakkipikki (metspalu) @ 1.62
10 89.9% kashmiri (harappa) + 10.1% madiga (reich) @ 1.63
11 90.6% kashmiri (harappa) + 9.4% ap-mala (xing) @ 1.64
12 87.1% kashmiri (harappa) + 12.9% kol (metspalu) @ 1.66
13 89.3% kashmiri (harappa) + 10.7% sakilli (chaubey) @ 1.66
14 88.7% kashmiri (harappa) + 11.3% kamsali (reich) @ 1.68
15 90.2% kashmiri (harappa) + 9.8% chenchu (reich) @ 1.69
16 90.3% kashmiri (harappa) + 9.7% kurumba (reich) @ 1.69
17 86.1% kashmiri (harappa) + 13.9% up-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 1.71
18 81% kashmiri (harappa) + 19% bihari (harappa) @ 1.75
19 88.3% kashmiri (harappa) + 11.7% chenchu (metspalu) @ 1.76
20 87.5% kashmiri (harappa) + 12.5% hallaki (reich) @ 1.76

Sapporo
01-26-2018, 10:27 PM
Not 100% sure if this one is Kashmiri. Is missing the NE Asian too.

Y-DNA: R2
mt-DNA: M30

No surname listed and goes by Mustafa

Kit No: M330050

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 41.21
2 S-Indian 30.2
3 Caucasian 13.1
4 NE-Euro 7.67
5 Mediterranean 2.49
6 Beringian 2.32
7 Siberian 1.54
8 SE-Asian 0.93
9 Papuan 0.29
10 American 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 3.95
2 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.39
3 punjabi (harappa) 4.93
4 punjabi-arain (xing) 4.94
5 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.39
6 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 5.41
7 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 5.51
8 kashmiri (harappa) 5.66
9 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 5.72
10 sindhi (harappa) 5.79
11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.07
12 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 6.1
13 sindhi (hgdp) 6.84
14 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 7.22
15 pathan (hgdp) 8.18
16 bhatia (harappa) 8.31
17 up-muslim (harappa) 8.61
18 kalash (hgdp) 10.07
19 burusho (hgdp) 10.3
20 nepalese-a (xing) 10.55

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.2% kalash (hgdp) + 28.8% dharkar (metspalu) @ 2.62
2 67.8% kalash (hgdp) + 32.2% up (harappa) @ 2.67
3 63.7% kalash (hgdp) + 36.3% tn-brahmin (xing) @ 2.71
4 64.8% kalash (hgdp) + 35.2% iyer-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.74
5 68.3% kalash (hgdp) + 31.7% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) @ 2.79
6 62.3% kalash (hgdp) + 37.7% meghawal (reich) @ 2.81
7 65.4% kalash (hgdp) + 34.6% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.84
8 63.4% kalash (hgdp) + 36.6% maharashtrian (harappa) @ 2.84
9 63.6% kalash (hgdp) + 36.4% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.85
10 63.2% kalash (hgdp) + 36.8% gujarati (harappa) @ 2.85
11 63.5% kalash (hgdp) + 36.5% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) @ 2.85
12 88.6% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 11.4% balochi (hgdp) @ 2.86
13 66.8% kalash (hgdp) + 33.2% ap-brahmin (xing) @ 2.87
14 71.7% kalash (hgdp) + 28.3% tharu (metspalu) @ 2.87
15 76.1% kalash (hgdp) + 23.9% dusadh (metspalu) @ 2.88
16 90.2% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 9.8% brahui (hgdp) @ 2.89
17 72.8% kalash (hgdp) + 27.2% gujarati-patel (harappa) @ 2.89
18 60.4% kalash (hgdp) + 39.6% gujarati-b (hapmap) @ 2.91
19 64.3% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 35.7% kalash (hgdp) @ 2.92
20 72.4% kalash (hgdp) + 27.6% karnataka (harappa) @ 2.92


Unsure about this individual as well.

Iqbal

Y-DNA: R2
mt-DNA: HV

Kit No: M969433

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.02
2 S-Indian 33.31
3 Caucasian 11.74
4 NE-Euro 7.23
5 SW-Asian 3.46
6 NE-Asian 2.27
7 American 0.85
8 Beringian 0.84
9 SE-Asian 0.53
10 Papuan 0.41
11 Siberian 0.25
12 Pygmy 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi (harappa) 2.6
2 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 3.93
3 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 4.07
4 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.31
5 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 4.33
6 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 4.52
7 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 4.79
8 kashmiri (harappa) 5.23
9 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 5.6
10 up-muslim (harappa) 5.71
11 punjabi-arain (xing) 6.34
12 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.43
13 sindhi (harappa) 7.04
14 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 7.78
15 sindhi (hgdp) 8.39
16 nepalese-a (xing) 8.75
17 up-brahmin (harappa) 9.66
18 bhatia (harappa) 10.81
19 pathan (hgdp) 11
20 burusho (hgdp) 11.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.3% sindhi (harappa) + 20.7% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 1.69
2 74.8% sindhi (harappa) + 25.2% kerala-muslim (harappa) @ 1.71
3 80.6% sindhi (harappa) + 19.4% naidu (reich) @ 1.75
4 81.1% sindhi (harappa) + 18.9% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) @ 1.75
5 81.3% sindhi (harappa) + 18.7% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) @ 1.76
6 83% sindhi (harappa) + 17% kamsali (reich) @ 1.79
7 79.7% sindhi (harappa) + 20.3% tamil-nadar (harappa) @ 1.79
8 76.2% sindhi (harappa) + 23.8% andhra-pradesh (harappa) @ 1.79
9 79.3% sindhi (harappa) + 20.7% tamil-vellalar (harappa) @ 1.79
10 80.1% sindhi (harappa) + 19.9% dusadh (metspalu) @ 1.81
11 76.4% sindhi (harappa) + 23.6% karnataka (harappa) @ 1.81
12 81.3% sindhi (harappa) + 18.7% hallaki (reich) @ 1.82
13 78.5% sindhi (harappa) + 21.5% sinhalese (harappa) @ 1.84
14 70% sindhi (harappa) + 30% kerala-christian (harappa) @ 1.84
15 80.8% sindhi (harappa) + 19.2% kol (metspalu) @ 1.85
16 83.8% sindhi (harappa) + 16.2% sakilli (chaubey) @ 1.85
17 75.7% sindhi (harappa) + 24.3% ap-reddy (harappa) @ 1.85
18 82.4% sindhi (harappa) + 17.6% chenchu (metspalu) @ 1.86
19 82% sindhi (harappa) + 18% vysya (reich) @ 1.87
20 79.6% sindhi (harappa) + 20.4% lodi (reich) @ 1.87

note: There is a chance these are Paharis rather than Koshur speaking Kashmiris.

Sapporo
01-26-2018, 10:37 PM
This one seems to definitely be Kashmiri:

Ali

Kit No. A077284

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 36.11
2 S-Indian 33.06
3 Caucasian 15.33
4 NE-Euro 8.07
5 SW-Asian 2.27
6 NE-Asian 1.69
7 Siberian 1.57
8 American 1.08
9 Beringian 0.57
10 Mediterranean 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri (harappa) 3.69
2 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 4.62
3 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 4.69
4 punjabi (harappa) 5.13
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 5.33
6 up-muslim (harappa) 5.67
7 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.71
8 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 6.61
9 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 7.31
10 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.32
11 sindhi (harappa) 7.58
12 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 8.38
13 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 8.83
14 punjabi-arain (xing) 9.39
15 nepalese-a (xing) 10.41
16 pathan (hgdp) 10.73
17 up-brahmin (harappa) 11.19
18 sindhi (hgdp) 11.53
19 burusho (hgdp) 12.19
20 bhatia (harappa) 12.26

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.4% sindhi (harappa) + 11.6% irula (xing) @ 1.96
2 71.1% kerala-nair (harappa) + 28.9% lezgin (behar) @ 2.06
3 84.2% pathan (hgdp) + 15.8% irula (xing) @ 2.1
4 77.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 22.6% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 2.11
5 84.4% pathan (hgdp) + 15.6% pulliyar (metspalu) @ 2.21
6 88.7% sindhi (harappa) + 11.3% pulliyar (metspalu) @ 2.22
7 70.7% kerala-nair (harappa) + 29.3% urkarah (xing) @ 2.29
8 95.1% kashmiri (harappa) + 4.9% irula (xing) @ 2.31
9 83.2% kashmiri (harappa) + 16.8% cochin-jew (behar) @ 2.43
10 95.3% kashmiri (harappa) + 4.7% pulliyar (metspalu) @ 2.44
11 93.5% kashmiri (harappa) + 6.5% hakkipikki (metspalu) @ 2.5
12 93.5% kashmiri (harappa) + 6.5% north-kannadi (chaubey) @ 2.52
13 93.9% kashmiri (harappa) + 6.1% mala (reich) @ 2.52
14 93.8% kashmiri (harappa) + 6.2% tn-dalit (xing) @ 2.52
15 88.1% kashmiri (harappa) + 11.9% ap-hyderabad (harappa) @ 2.54
16 93.1% kashmiri (harappa) + 6.9% tamil-vishwakarma (harappa) @ 2.55
17 93.7% kashmiri (harappa) + 6.3% kurumba (reich) @ 2.55
18 93.5% kashmiri (harappa) + 6.5% ap-madiga (xing) @ 2.57
19 93.1% kashmiri (harappa) + 6.9% sakilli (chaubey) @ 2.57
20 91.9% kashmiri (harappa) + 8.1% hallaki (reich) @ 2.58

pnb123
01-27-2018, 01:32 AM
I see lots of H and C haplogroups. Are these two haplogroups dominant among Kashmiris?

khanabadoshi
01-27-2018, 01:34 AM
We don’t have surnames. Many of my family members hav different “surnames” lol. A lot of them
don’t wanna use the Zai/ khel which is our proper identification so they take more like a nom de plume sorta word. Some of them even use Iranian last names, sly, we are.
Zaman is used by a lot of Afghan Uzbeks as well.as
Zaman just means “time” in Pashto.

Just read your previous posts. Which area did you refer to, must be somewhere in Pakistan? A lot of zamanzai are durranis, unless the person you are referring to on gedmatch matches with us idk if they are of the same tribe or some other Pakhtun tribe from Pakistan. I found a lot of Indians with “durrani” lastname. Confuses the hell out of me.
All Pashtun Durranis are genetically related.

Zaman means time for most of the surrounding languages. But specifically in Pakistan, Zaman is a tribal name taken by a group of Pashtuns and they would say this is their tribe. I say surname, because I don't know if it's some main tribe or subtribe, or actually even a proper tribe; as I think the Zaman seem to be more likely of Turkic or Dardic background but came to eventually speak Pashto and identify themselves as Pashtun. They are typically from far Northwest, like this cricketer from Mardan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fakhar_Zaman_(cricketer)

Whatever they are: The gist is, there is a group of people with the last name/2nd name/surname/tribe/shanakht called Zaman in Pakistan, they speak Pashto, and they and everyone else in Pakistan calls them Pashtun. They are from pretty far north, so a Zaman being in Kashmir is not unlikely, and probably not some distant claim.

tl'dr: I think the Kashmiri guy is eventually paternally not Kashmiri.


There are a decent amount of Durranis in Punjab in Pakistan, but I wouldnt' say it's common. You will find more Khogani/Khakwani names than Durrani and most common is something-something-khel or zai. But most Durranis in Punjab live along the border with KPK. The most distant one I know is from Bahawalpur. He doesn't look very Pashtun, but he doesn't look very Bahawalpuri either.. so there's that. I've never met an Indian Durrani though, or a Durrani outside of Punjab or KPK, Balochistan for that matter. Generally speaking though, most Pashtun don't use their tribal name as their last name, even in Punjab, unless that name has historical significance. This is why the Durranis go by the name and not the typical "Khan" or use a subtribe name.

Kulin
01-27-2018, 03:11 AM
Durrani isn't common at all in India and there's about 950 people carrying the surname according to forebears.

surbakhunWeesste
01-27-2018, 03:16 AM
Durrani isn't common at all in India and there's about 950 people carrying the surname according to forebears.

That's a lot of Indians, in Afghanistan or Pakistan, that'd constitute to population of a tribal village.

Sapporo
01-27-2018, 03:18 AM
I see lots of H and C haplogroups. Are these two haplogroups dominant among Kashmiris?

I haven't seen enough haplogroups for Kashmiris to say. I doubt H is any more prominent than it is for other Northwest South Asians (ie not frequent but Kalash score elevated amounts of H despite their location and isolation so it wouldn't be that surprising). As for C, it may be noteworthy since Kashmiris tend to have non-negligible East Asian admixture. Might be from relations with Northern Dardic groups such as Kho/Shina or populations such as Burusho. I have seen a few Kashmiris get R2 though.

Kulin
01-27-2018, 03:20 AM
That's a lot of Indians, in Afghanistan or Pakistan, that'd constitute a population of a village.

lol that is true, but out of a population of 1.3 billion, its insignificant. Some sparse Pashtun tribal names are probably from some old Pashtun progenitor who settled in those lands.

kakiasumi
01-27-2018, 03:48 AM
Zaman means time for most of the surrounding languages. But specifically in Pakistan, Zaman is a tribal name taken by a group of Pashtuns and they would say this is their tribe. I say surname, because I don't know if it's some main tribe or subtribe, or actually even a proper tribe; as I think the Zaman seem to be more likely of Turkic or Dardic background but came to eventually speak Pashto and identify themselves as Pashtun. They are typically from far Northwest, like this cricketer from Mardan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fakhar_Zaman_(cricketer)

Whatever they are: The gist is, there is a group of people with the last name/2nd name/surname/tribe/shanakht called Zaman in Pakistan, they speak Pashto, and they and everyone else in Pakistan calls them Pashtun. They are from pretty far north, so a Zaman being in Kashmir is not unlikely, and probably not some distant claim.

tl'dr: I think the Kashmiri guy is eventually paternally not Kashmiri.


There are a decent amount of Durranis in Punjab in Pakistan, but I wouldnt' say it's common. You will find more Khogani/Khakwani names than Durrani and most common is something-something-khel or zai. But most Durranis in Punjab live along the border with KPK. The most distant one I know is from Bahawalpur. He doesn't look very Pashtun, but he doesn't look very Bahawalpuri either.. so there's that. I've never met an Indian Durrani though, or a Durrani outside of Punjab or KPK, Balochistan for that matter. Generally speaking though, most Pashtun don't use their tribal name as their last name, even in Punjab, unless that name has historical significance. This is why the Durranis go by the name and not the typical "Khan" or use a subtribe name.

There are two unrelated Kho Zaman families in my neighbourhood. Hovever I have never seen someone with Durrani surname.

bmoney
01-27-2018, 04:09 AM
I see lots of H and C haplogroups. Are these two haplogroups dominant among Kashmiris?

Wonder what the r1a % is among valley Kashmiris - they look BMACey to me like the Kalash

Some of these oracles are interesting, modelled as South Indian shifted Kalash or Sindhis:

1 71.2% kalash (hgdp) + 28.8% dharkar (metspalu) @ 2.62

1 79.3% sindhi (harappa) + 20.7% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 1.69

1 88.4% sindhi (harappa) + 11.6% irula (xing) @ 1.96

khanabadoshi
01-27-2018, 04:12 AM
There are two unrelated Kho Zaman families in my neighbourhood. Hovever I have never seen someone with Durrani surname.

Very interesting! Is Zaman a typical family name amongst the Kho, or is this unique? I think they came with Turkic peoples and settled in the far north and adapted languages of where they ended up.
The only reason I think there is a some Turk connection, is because it seems its the Turkic people who took the word Zaman and started using it as a name -- it's pretty strange to take the name "Time/Era".

Of course, Zaman may mean something else in different regional languages. So there is that too. Could be unrelated Zamans in different regions, with the names arising independently.

It doesn't help that in most our langauges the name could be spelled the same in English, but is actually different: زمان; ضمان; ذمان; ظمان

kakiasumi
01-27-2018, 04:14 AM
duplicate post

kakiasumi
01-27-2018, 04:15 AM
Talking about Kalash and names you will find this amusing😂. Origionally published on Dawn.


Kalash people have been naming their children after household items since long. If asking for a 'telephone' or 'cooker' in the remote Kalash valley of Rumbur or Bumburate the local people lead you to someone's house; take it easy as Kalash people have been naming their children after household items since long.

The people of primitive culture and civilisation living in the segregated valleys in south of Chitral share strange habits and ways in their daily life and naming their babies is one of them. Qudratullah, a development worker in the valley, said that names of many people in the area were humourous in nature and there had been no hard and fast rules to name a child.
He said that in some cases, the Kalash had been named after the kitchen utensils like balti, glass, cooker etc. He observed that the Kalash people were fond of naming their children after 'new things' such as telephone and computer.

Zahid Ali, a university student doing research on Kalash culture, said that in the Kalash dialect the local names of both men and women hardly carried any meaning. However, he said that the Kalash try to avoid repeating a name already used.

"No two Kalash can be found with the same name,” he said, adding that the Muslim names like Saifullah Jan, Abdullah were now being used.

He said that a stranger could not differentiate between a man and woman through their names, but now the Kalash women had starting using Muslim names like Fatima, Khadija, Shahida and others. Enumerating some funny names of the Kalash, he mentioned Number-One, Mobile, Radio, Cassette, Akhbar, Chaprasi. He said that 'Pepsi' was the original name of a young boy living in his neighbourhood.

He, however, said that now changes were also taking place in the Kalash culture and more and more people were using Muslim names.

khanabadoshi
01-27-2018, 04:25 AM
Talking about Kalash and names you will find this amusing. Origionally published on Dawn.


Kalash people have been naming their children after household items since long. If asking for a 'telephone' or 'cooker' in the remote Kalash valley of Rumbur or Bumburate the local people lead you to someone's house; take it easy as Kalash people have been naming their children after household items since long.

The people of primitive culture and civilisation living in the segregated valleys in south of Chitral share strange habits and ways in their daily life and naming their babies is one of them. Qudratullah, a development worker in the valley, said that names of many people in the area were humourous in nature and there had been no hard and fast rules to name a child.
He said that in some cases, the Kalash had been named after the kitchen utensils like balti, glass, cooker etc. He observed that the Kalash people were fond of naming their children after 'new things' such as telephone and computer.

Zahid Ali, a university student doing research on Kalash culture, said that in the Kalash dialect the local names of both men and women hardly carried any meaning. However, he said that the Kalash try to avoid repeating a name already used.

"No two Kalash can be found with the same name,” he said, adding that the Muslim names like Saifullah Jan, Abdullah were now being used.

He said that a stranger could not differentiate between a man and woman through their names, but now the Kalash women had starting using Muslim names like Fatima, Khadija, Shahida and others. Enumerating some funny names of the Kalash, he mentioned Number-One, Mobile, Radio, Cassette, Akhbar, Chaprasi. He said that 'Pepsi' was the original name of a young boy living in his neighbourhood.

He, however, said that now changes were also taking place in the Kalash culture and more and more people were using Muslim names.

That is very interesting! In your own experience have you found this to be true? Do Kalash travel to Chitral city, or do they stay in their valley?

Kulin
01-27-2018, 04:27 AM
Talking about Kalash and names you will find this amusing��. Origionally published on Dawn.


Kalash people have been naming their children after household items since long. If asking for a 'telephone' or 'cooker' in the remote Kalash valley of Rumbur or Bumburate the local people lead you to someone's house; take it easy as Kalash people have been naming their children after household items since long.

The people of primitive culture and civilisation living in the segregated valleys in south of Chitral share strange habits and ways in their daily life and naming their babies is one of them. Qudratullah, a development worker in the valley, said that names of many people in the area were humourous in nature and there had been no hard and fast rules to name a child.
He said that in some cases, the Kalash had been named after the kitchen utensils like balti, glass, cooker etc. He observed that the Kalash people were fond of naming their children after 'new things' such as telephone and computer.

Zahid Ali, a university student doing research on Kalash culture, said that in the Kalash dialect the local names of both men and women hardly carried any meaning. However, he said that the Kalash try to avoid repeating a name already used.

"No two Kalash can be found with the same name,” he said, adding that the Muslim names like Saifullah Jan, Abdullah were now being used.

He said that a stranger could not differentiate between a man and woman through their names, but now the Kalash women had starting using Muslim names like Fatima, Khadija, Shahida and others. Enumerating some funny names of the Kalash, he mentioned Number-One, Mobile, Radio, Cassette, Akhbar, Chaprasi. He said that 'Pepsi' was the original name of a young boy living in his neighbourhood.

He, however, said that now changes were also taking place in the Kalash culture and more and more people were using Muslim names.

That is really interesting and funny indeed. Btw, what are native Kalash names? And do some Kho people also use these names?

kakiasumi
01-27-2018, 04:32 AM
Very interesting! Is Zaman a typical family name amongst the Kho, or is this unique? I think they came with Turkic peoples and settled in the far north and adapted languages of where they ended up.
The only reason I think there is a some Turk connection, is because it seems its the Turkic people who took the word Zaman and started using it as a name -- it's pretty strange to take the name "Time/Era".

Of course, Zaman may mean something else in different regional languages. So there is that too. Could be unrelated Zamans in different regions, with the names arising independently.


Zaman is not that common. The most common are Baigs and Shahs. Most people don't use their tribe name with their names and the surnames don't necessarily represent their tribe. Although not a surname but there there a large number of names ending with Din, Allah, Rehmat, Azam, Nawaz etc

kakiasumi
01-27-2018, 04:40 AM
SOME TRADITIONAL KHOWAR NAMES


Names Attributed to Birds (Smartness, Wisdom, Independence)

Khowar English Literal meaning
طوطی Toti Parrot
مینا Myna Myna
شریکی Shareki Myna
شربڑانگ Sharbalang Bank myna
مایون Mayon Golden oriol
طیغون Taighoon Variety of Hawk
سیورج sayurj Variety of Hawk
باجگی Bajgi Variety of Hawk



Names Attributed to Animals (Bravery, Fierceness)

Khowar English Literal meaning
شاپیر Shapir Wolf
پُردوم Purdum Leopard
اژدار Axdar Dragon
شیر Sher Tiger



Names Attributed to Precious Stones/ Metals
(Preciousness, Rarity)

Khowar English Literal meaning
زمرد Zimrat Emerald
مسار Masar A kind of Akik
سوروم Sorum Gold
جفریات Jafaryat
لعل Laghal Ruby
یاقوت Yaqut
فیروزہ Fairooza Jade
مُت Mut
لاجوحت Lajwaht Lapis Lazuli
دُردانہ Durdana Pearl



Names Attributed to Flowers (Beauty, Delicacy)

Khowar English Literal meaning
گلسمبر Gulsambar Marigold
رجولی Rajuli
گلاب Gulab Rose
زیربلی Zerbali Yellow rose
کھورور Khorur
مرگست Margast Nargis
ملکھون Milkhon Violet
نازک بدن Nazuk Badan
بیرݰ Berish
گلبونگ Gulbong
قلاہور Qalahur Clove



Names Attributed to Colours/Smells/Gifts (Uniqueness, Valuableness)

Khowar English
وور Woar
خوش Khosh
شوکھور Shokhor
زووالی Zowali
ݯھیر گوڑی Chirgoli
خونځا Khonza
خدائے دیرو Khodai Diru



Full Khowar Names (Attributed to Objects of Nature, Natural Phenomenon and Dearness etc)

Khowar English
ژانویار Xano Yar
یورمس Yormas
ژان روئے Xan Roy
ژانہ ٹِپ Xana Tip
ختانہ زار Khatana Zar
شکھورمن Shokhorman
خوش روئے Khosh Roy
شیر کوٹی Sherkoti
ݯھیر گوڑی Chirgoli
خدائے دیرو Khodai Diru

Origionally Published in Mahraka.com by Farid Ahmad Reza

kakiasumi
01-27-2018, 04:45 AM
Yes its true. When I go to the bazar I always see Kalash women doing groceries in their traditional clothes. They are no more confined to their villages and move freely inside Pakistan.

khanabadoshi
01-27-2018, 04:53 AM
I haven't seen enough haplogroups for Kashmiris to say. I doubt H is any more prominent than it is for other Northwest South Asians (ie not frequent but Kalash score elevated amounts of H despite their location and isolation so it wouldn't be that surprising). As for C, it may be noteworthy since Kashmiris tend to have non-negligible East Asian admixture. Might be from relations with Northern Dardic groups such as Kho/Shina or populations such as Burusho. I have seen a few Kashmiris get R2 though.

So far these are the C and H I've catalogued, just for reference:




yDNA
mtDNA


MALAYALI C 16
C
M2a1


KAZAKH - ZHetyru [Tleu]
C
M7c


GUJARAT- [Sumaria]
C5*
M33a


MALAYALI C 22
C5a
R30a


ANCIENT; NE5
C-F3393
J1c


BEB_HG03917
C-F3777*
M42'74


GUJARAT - [Shah] 02
C-M216



ANCIENT; NE6
C-P255
K1a3a3


ANCIENT; Bot15
C-PH3092
B4a1a1a


ANCIENT; RISE97
CT-Y1580
K2a5


ANCIENT; La Braña-Arintero
C-V183
U5b2c1


ANCIENT; Kostenki14
C-V199
U2


ANCIENT; Bot17
C-Z31878
B4a1a1


BEB_HG04155
C-Z5900
M3a1


BEB_HG03593
C-Z5900
M41a








yDNA
mtDNA


BEB_HG03600
H-FGC54719
M30d1


BEB_HG03941
H-M3038*
M30


BEB_HG04164
H-Y28192
M3c2


BEB_HG04176
H-Y28202
M65a


BEB_HG04146
H-Y33670*
M18a


BEB_HG03809
H-Z34492
M38b


BEB_HG03009
H-Z34721
HV12


BEB_HG04188
H-Z4469*
M30b


BEB_HG03812
H-Z4487*
R5a2a


BEB_HG03594
H-Z5868
M


BEB_HG03815
H-Z5876*
W3a1b


BEB_HG04185
H-Z5877
M35a


BEB_HG04161
H-Z5890*
M3




EDIT: If I remember, a good amount of the PJL/ITU/GIH samples are H, just haven't got to them yet. I only got all the Rs for them so far.

khanabadoshi
01-27-2018, 05:08 AM
Might as well add the few L/O/Qs as well:




yDNA
mtDNA


MALAYALI C 13
L
M


MALAYALI C 12
L1
M3


SAM - (U07)
L1
M37e


MALAYALI C 11
L1
M5a


SAU - [Singh]
L1
R31a1


MALAYALI C 21
L1
U1a3


AFG - Tajik [Syed; Shah]
L1b1a (L-M349)
U7


AFG; KANDAHAR - Pashtun [Ayubi]
L3
J1b1b1


AFG - Pashtun [Barakzai]
L3*
M


SINDH - [heksindhi]
L3*
M3


MALAYALI C 23
L3*
M3


BEB_HG03824
L-683*
M3a1


AZERI 1
L-M317
U7


BEB_HG03821
L-Y12415*
R6


BEB_HG03920
L-Z5932
R6a1a


KAZAKH 3
N1c1
M9a3a


ANCIENT; IR1
N-M231
G2a1


UYGHUR 11 [Urumqi]
O2
G2b2


BEB_HG03830
O-A9463*
M30d1


BEB_HG04134
O-CTS1642*
U7a3


BEB_HG04173
O-Y9033*
M2b2


BEB_HG04140
O-Y9033*
M57


ANCIENT; Palaeo-Eskimo
Q1a
D2a1


SAU - [Sanghvi]
Q1a3*
M37


ANCIENT; RISE493
Q-L712
C4a1c


ANCIENT; Kennewick Man
Q-M199
X2a


BEB_HG03914
Q-Y1150*
M30


ANCIENT; Clovis-Anzick-1
Q-Z780
D4h3a

parasar
01-27-2018, 05:34 AM
Wonder what the r1a % is among valley Kashmiris - they look BMACey to me like the Kalash


non valley
Pakistan: "The highest frequency of R1a1* was observed in the Mohanna (71.4%) and lowest in the Parsi
(7.8%). Other populations with appreciable (>50%) frequency of R1a1* included the Kashmiri (58.3%), Punjabi caste (56.7%), and Sindhi (51.4%)."

valley
https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg20082/tables/1
Kashmir Brahmans ~36%
Kashmir Gujjars ~43%

khanabadoshi
01-27-2018, 02:20 PM
Zaman is not that common. The most common are Baigs and Shahs. Most people don't use their tribe name with their names and the surnames don't necessarily represent their tribe. Although not a surname but there there a large number of names ending with Din, Allah, Rehmat, Azam, Nawaz etc

My family's last name is Baig, so at least it's common haha.

kakiasumi
01-27-2018, 02:40 PM
My family's last name is Baig, so at least it's common haha.

Hmm. I didn't know that. There are many common things which I will inforn you with time. I was going through the electricity bills ( Electricity bills are not delievered at home. You have to collect it from your village mosque) in my village mosque and most of the common surnames were Beg, Shah and Khan.

vintage_sky
01-27-2018, 07:57 PM
Me

A551070

Kashmiri Pakhreel Jat Muslim


Admix Results (sorted):

PopulationPercent
1Baloch40.32
2S-Indian32.95
3Caucasian14.29
4NE-Euro7.71
5SW-Asian2.16
6Beringian0.99
7Papuan0.6
8NE-Asian0.58
9American0.4


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 kashmiri-pandit_reich @ 3.741129
2 punjabi_harappa @ 4.212628
3 punjabi-jatt-muslim_harappa @ 4.611193
4 punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 5.298704
5 kashmiri-pahari_harappa @ 5.387569
6 kashmiri_harappa @ 5.538891
7 punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 5.715806
8 singapore-indian-c_sgvp @ 5.830420
9 gujarati-muslim_harappa @ 5.920405
10 punjabi-arain_xing @ 6.747118
11 sindhi_harappa @ 6.849985
12 punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 6.934797
13 pushtikar-brahmin_harappa @ 7.391061
14 up-muslim_harappa @ 8.258970
15 punjabi-jatt-sikh_harappa @ 8.501687
16 sindhi_hgdp @ 8.935065
17 rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 9.557906
18 pathan_hgdp @ 10.790153
19 bhatia_harappa @ 10.879108
20 nepali_harappa @ 11.390075

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu +50% kalash_hgdp @ 3.279274


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% kalash_hgdp +25% sindhi_harappa +25% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 2.067334


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 brahui_hgdp + gujarati-a_hapmap + urkarah_xing + vysya_reich @ 1.749579
2 brahui_hgdp + gujarati-a_1000genomes + urkarah_xing + vysya_reich @ 1.950516
3 brahui_hgdp + gujarati-patel_harappa + urkarah_xing + vysya_reich @ 1.982455
4 balochi_hgdp + gujarati-a_hapmap + urkarah_xing + vysya_reich @ 2.050733
5 brahui_hgdp + gujarati-a_hapmap + piramalai-kallar_metspalu + urkarah_xing @ 2.063459
6 kalash_hgdp + kalash_hgdp + sindhi_harappa + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 2.067334
7 brahui_hgdp + gujarati-a_hapmap + kol_metspalu + urkarah_xing @ 2.117905
8 brahui_hgdp + gujarati-a_hapmap + singapore-indian-a_sgvp + urkarah_xing @ 2.159141
9 kalash_hgdp + kalash_hgdp + naidu_reich + sindhi_harappa @ 2.167609
10 brahui_hgdp + gujarati-a_hapmap + naidu_reich + urkarah_xing @ 2.206892
11 brahui_hgdp + gujarati-a_hapmap + kurumba_metspalu + urkarah_xing @ 2.208119
12 kalash_hgdp + pathan_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + velama_reich @ 2.225961
13 kalash_hgdp + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 2.226621
14 brahui_hgdp + gujarati-patel_harappa + kol_metspalu + urkarah_xing @ 2.241166
15 goan_harappa + gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 2.251942
16 brahui_hgdp + gujarati-patel_harappa + piramalai-kallar_metspalu + urkarah_xing @ 2.253066
17 kalash_hgdp + pathan_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + velama_metspalu @ 2.259629
18 goan_harappa + gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + sindhi_harappa @ 2.266506
19 kalash_hgdp + kalash_hgdp + piramalai-kallar_metspalu + sindhi_harappa @ 2.269329
20 kalash_hgdp + pathan_hgdp + sindhi_harappa + velama_reich @ 2.274789

Done.

vintage_sky
01-27-2018, 08:02 PM
Surname Mir

Ydna r1a
Mtdna r0

A930463


Admix Results


#PopulationPercent
1Baloch37.442
S-Indian31.51
3Caucasian12.334
NE-Euro11.33
5American2.16
Beringian1.54
7Siberian1.358
NE-Asian0.84
9Papuan0.68
10W-African0.57
11SE-Asian0.24
12Mediterranean0.07

Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 kashmiri-pandit_reich @ 3.350857
2 pushtikar-brahmin_harappa @ 4.387612
3 punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 4.405591
4 punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 4.519566
5 kashmiri_harappa @ 4.578045
6 punjabi-jatt-muslim_harappa @ 4.692883
7 punjabi_harappa @ 4.693942
8 rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 5.590734
9 singapore-indian-c_sgvp @ 5.794565
10 punjabi-jatt-sikh_harappa @ 5.861412
11 up-muslim_harappa @ 6.977906
12 kashmiri-pahari_harappa @ 7.045763
13 nepali_harappa @ 7.413058
14 punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 7.446785
15 sindhi_harappa @ 7.600156
16 gujarati-muslim_harappa @ 8.269722
17 nepalese-a_xing @ 8.415895
18 punjabi-arain_xing @ 8.911106
19 haryana-jatt_harappa @ 9.245721
20 pathan_hgdp @ 10.254879

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% bengali-brahmin_harappa +50% kalash_hgdp @ 2.397831


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu +25% kalash_hgdp +25% pashtun_harappa @ 1.971334


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 bihari-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 1.916175
2 kalash_hgdp + pashtun_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + srivastava_reich @ 1.929058
3 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + kalash_hgdp + pashtun_harappa @ 1.971334
4 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + kalash_hgdp + nepali_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.974741
5 caribbean-indian_harappa + haryana-jatt_harappa + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 2.010352
6 haryana-jatt_harappa + kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + srivastava_reich @ 2.012434
7 bihari_harappa + haryana-jatt_harappa + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 2.036128
8 bengali-brahmin_harappa + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.039330
9 kashmiri-pandit_reich + punjabi-khatri_harappa + pushtikar-brahmin_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.071100
10 haryana-jatt_harappa + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + srivastava_reich @ 2.073863
11 kalash_hgdp + kalash_hgdp + nepali_harappa + srivastava_reich @ 2.081846
12 nepali_harappa + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 2.110905
13 haryana-jatt_harappa + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + sourastrian_harappa @ 2.116586
14 kashmiri_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 2.117042
15 bengali-brahmin_harappa + kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.117196
16 bihari-muslim_harappa + haryana-jatt_harappa + kalash_hgdp + kashmiri-pandit_reich @ 2.144709
17 kashmiri-pandit_reich + kashmiri-pandit_reich + punjabi-khatri_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.157448
18 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + kalash_hgdp + pashtun_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 2.157728
19 haryana-jatt_harappa + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + rajasthani_harappa @ 2.163393
20 caribbean-indian_harappa + kalash_hgdp + kalash_hgdp + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.165712

Done.

vintage_sky
01-27-2018, 08:09 PM
I haven't seen enough haplogroups for Kashmiris to say. I doubt H is any more prominent than it is for other Northwest South Asians (ie not frequent but Kalash score elevated amounts of H despite their location and isolation so it wouldn't be that surprising). As for C, it may be noteworthy since Kashmiris tend to have non-negligible East Asian admixture. Might be from relations with Northern Dardic groups such as Kho/Shina or populations such as Burusho. I have seen a few Kashmiris get R2 though.

Nehru's are Kashmiri Pandits with R2 ydna

Sapporo
01-27-2018, 08:43 PM
M. A Butt - looks to be half Northwest European (British per info)

Kit No. A368755

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 31.15
2 Baloch 22.83
3 Mediterranean 16.7
4 S-Indian 15.46
5 Caucasian 7.72
6 SW-Asian 2.41
7 NE-Asian 1.85
8 American 0.95
9 Siberian 0.54
10 Beringian 0.29
11 Papuan 0.09
12 SE-Asian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 haryana-jatt (harappa) 24.29
2 romanian-b (behar) 25.58
3 tajik (yunusbayev) 25.67
4 romanian-a (behar) 26.89
5 hungarian (behar) 27.25
6 slovenian (xing) 28.14
7 pashtun (harappa) 28.29
8 french (hgdp) 28.44
9 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 28.93
10 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 29.31
11 utahn-white (1000genomes) 29.4
12 n-european (xing) 29.58
13 utahn-white (hapmap) 29.91
14 british (1000genomes) 30.12
15 pathan (hgdp) 30.58
16 orcadian (hgdp) 30.93
17 nepalese-a (xing) 31.08
18 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 31.09
19 burusho (hgdp) 31.27
20 chuvash (behar) 31.53

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.1% n-european (xing) + 46.9% punjabi (harappa) @ 1.98
2 52.9% utahn-white (hapmap) + 47.1% punjabi (harappa) @ 2.05
3 54.1% n-european (xing) + 45.9% kashmiri-pahari (harappa) @ 2.09
4 53.6% utahn-white (hapmap) + 46.4% gujarati-muslim (harappa) @ 2.18
5 53.3% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 46.7% punjabi (harappa) @ 2.2
6 50.6% orcadian (hgdp) + 49.4% kashmiri (harappa) @ 2.39
7 51.9% utahn-white (hapmap) + 48.1% up-muslim (harappa) @ 2.4
8 52.7% orcadian (hgdp) + 47.3% gujarati-muslim (harappa) @ 2.41
9 51.5% utahn-white (hapmap) + 48.5% kashmiri (harappa) @ 2.43
10 53.1% n-european (xing) + 46.9% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) @ 2.46
11 51.3% british (1000genomes) + 48.7% kashmiri (harappa) @ 2.57
12 53.9% n-european (xing) + 46.1% gujarati-muslim (harappa) @ 2.63
13 53% n-european (xing) + 47% kashmiri-pandit (reich) @ 2.63
14 52.7% utahn-white (hapmap) + 47.3% kashmiri-pandit (reich) @ 2.65
15 52.2% utahn-white (hapmap) + 47.8% punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) @ 2.67
16 53.8% utahn-white (hapmap) + 46.2% kashmiri-pahari (harappa) @ 2.67
17 51.9% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 48.1% kashmiri (harappa) @ 2.68
18 53.8% n-european (xing) + 46.2% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) @ 2.69
19 53.1% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 46.9% kashmiri-pandit (reich) @ 2.73
20 52.3% utahn-white (1000genomes) + 47.7% up-muslim (harappa) @ 2.73

M. Qasim - Baloch seems too low to be Pahari but I'm unsure on this one

Kit No. M465209

Y-DNA: R2
mt-DNA: U5a1a1

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 36.9
2 S-Indian 33.83
3 Caucasian 12.37
4 NE-Euro 7.69
5 Mediterranean 1.84
6 SW-Asian 1.79
7 NE-Asian 1.45
8 Siberian 1.4
9 Beringian 1.38
10 American 0.91
11 SE-Asian 0.43

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi (harappa) 3.08
2 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 3.39
3 up-muslim (harappa) 3.66
4 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 4.13
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.31
6 kashmiri (harappa) 4.57
7 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 4.67
8 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 4.98
9 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 5.05
10 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 5.79
11 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.37
12 punjabi-arain (xing) 7.72
13 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 7.83
14 sindhi (harappa) 8.12
15 nepalese-a (xing) 8.39
16 up-brahmin (harappa) 8.79
17 sindhi (hgdp) 10.19
18 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 11
19 bihari-muslim (harappa) 11.04
20 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 11.06

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.7% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 22.3% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 1.55
2 73.1% pathan (hgdp) + 26.9% chenchu (metspalu) @ 1.58
3 58.4% kalash (hgdp) + 41.6% sri-lankan (harappa) @ 1.59
4 81.1% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 18.9% cochin-jew (behar) @ 1.65
5 76.4% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 23.6% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 1.68
6 71.6% pathan (hgdp) + 28.4% hallaki (reich) @ 1.7
7 77.7% kashmiri (harappa) + 22.3% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) @ 1.74
8 52.6% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 47.4% up-muslim (harappa) @ 1.75
9 54.2% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) + 45.8% pashtun (harappa) @ 1.75
10 61.9% pathan (hgdp) + 38.1% ap-hyderabad (harappa) @ 1.77
11 76.3% kashmiri (harappa) + 23.7% tn-brahmin (xing) @ 1.77
12 75% kashmiri (harappa) + 25% meghawal (reich) @ 1.79
13 77.4% kashmiri (harappa) + 22.6% iyer-brahmin (harappa) @ 1.81
14 79.7% kashmiri (harappa) + 20.3% up (harappa) @ 1.82
15 80.4% kashmiri (harappa) + 19.6% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) @ 1.84
16 75.6% kashmiri (harappa) + 24.4% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) @ 1.84
17 86.1% punjabi (harappa) + 13.9% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 1.84
18 75.5% kashmiri (harappa) + 24.5% maharashtrian (harappa) @ 1.84
19 76% kashmiri (harappa) + 24% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) @ 1.84
20 84.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 15.6% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 1.85

Reza
01-27-2018, 08:50 PM
Baig

Ydna - C
Mtdna - R5a2

Kit M444259

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 36.72
2 S-Indian 33.87
3 NE-Euro 10.72
4 Caucasian 10.43
5 Mediterranean 2.23
6 SW-Asian 2.16
7 NE-Asian 1.76
8 Siberian 0.84
9 Beringian 0.68
10 American 0.58
11 Papuan 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi (harappa) 3.79
2 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 4
3 up-muslim (harappa) 4.11
4 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 4.19
5 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 4.39
6 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 5.12
7 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 5.36
8 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 5.48
9 kashmiri (harappa) 5.81
10 nepalese-a (xing) 5.96
11 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 6.63
12 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.69
13 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.72
14 up-brahmin (harappa) 7.13
15 punjabi-arain (xing) 8.24
16 sindhi (harappa) 8.72
17 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 9.47
18 haryana-jatt (harappa) 9.66
19 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 9.92
20 bihari-muslim (harappa) 10.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.2% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 28.8% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 2.14
2 55.7% kashmiri (harappa) + 44.3% up-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.15
3 86.8% up-brahmin (harappa) + 13.2% kurd (xing) @ 2.15
4 85.6% up-brahmin (harappa) + 14.4% iranian (behar) @ 2.16
5 89.6% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 10.4% romanian-b (behar) @ 2.21
6 63.2% kashmiri (harappa) + 36.8% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) @ 2.22
7 51% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 49% up-muslim (harappa) @ 2.25
8 86.2% up-brahmin (harappa) + 13.8% kurd (harappa) @ 2.28
9 89.9% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 10.1% irula (xing) @ 2.28
10 54.4% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 45.6% pathan (hgdp) @ 2.29
11 90% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 10% pulliyar (metspalu) @ 2.32
12 62.9% pathan (hgdp) + 37.1% sri-lankan (harappa) @ 2.32
13 60.5% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 39.5% bengali-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.35
14 50.7% vaish (reich) + 49.3% pathan (hgdp) @ 2.36
15 52.4% bihari-muslim (harappa) + 47.6% pathan (hgdp) @ 2.39
16 50.7% up-muslim (harappa) + 49.3% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) @ 2.39
17 83.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 16.5% turkmen (yunusbayev) @ 2.4
18 63.9% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) + 36.1% pashtun (harappa) @ 2.4
19 64.1% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 35.9% vaish (reich) @ 2.42
20 53.5% sindhi (harappa) + 46.5% bengali-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.47

This guy isn't Kashmiri. He was a distant match of my mum's, so I emailed him :

Father: Mughal from his dad side and Pathan from his mother's. From Delhi originally.

Mother: father from Bareilly and mother Punjabi.

The C likely M217 sounds quite genuine for Central Asian ancestry given the Mughal background from Delhi.

Sapporo
01-27-2018, 09:02 PM
This guy isn't Kashmiri. He was a distant match of my mum's, so I emailed him :

Father: Mughal from his dad side and Pathan from his mother's. From Delhi originally.

Mother: father from Bareilly and mother Punjabi.

The C likely M217 sounds quite genuine for Central Asian ancestry given the Mughal background from Delhi.

The Caucasian seems a bit low for a Kashmiri (they tend to score upwards of 13%). Looks like he is a Delhi Muslim with Central Asian admixture which can give a pseudo Kashmiri profile. I'm not sure if Punjabis use Baig so I thought he might just have slightly off results but your explanation fits better. It seems Delhi/UP Muslims with Central Asian admixture can show up frequently in Kashmiri Muslim matches on Gedmatch.

vintage_sky
01-28-2018, 01:59 PM
The Caucasian seems a bit low for a Kashmiri (they tend to score upwards of 13%). Looks like he is a Delhi Muslim with Central Asian admixture which can give a pseudo Kashmiri profile. I'm not sure if Punjabis use Baig so I thought he might just have slightly off results but your explanation fits better. It seems Delhi/UP Muslims with Central Asian admixture can show up frequently in Kashmiri Muslim matches on Gedmatch.

Hi Sapporo, I am looking at my results, the pakreel jatt results which were posted. Do they seem synonymous with Kashmiris. I know the pakreel increase in numbers in Naushera, Kashmir and are said to descend from the rajput of Jammu. Further to this, atleast 6 generations ago there was little endogamy compared to generations 2-4 ago. My paternal forefathers although settle in Bhimber were trading in Jammu and as far as Srinagar, and possibly even tool brides from there.

What are you thoughts?

Sapporo
01-28-2018, 07:09 PM
Hi Sapporo, I am looking at my results, the pakreel jatt results which were posted. Do they seem synonymous with Kashmiris. I know the pakreel increase in numbers in Naushera, Kashmir and are said to descend from the rajput of Jammu. Further to this, atleast 6 generations ago there was little endogamy compared to generations 2-4 ago. My paternal forefathers although settle in Bhimber were trading in Jammu and as far as Srinagar, and possibly even tool brides from there.

What are you thoughts?

There is some similarity with Kashmiris (higher Caucasian and lower NE Euro admixture profiles) but Pahari speakers (at least Muslim ones; haven't seen enough Dogra Jammu Brahmin results) from Azad Kashmir/Potohar Plateau/Jammu regions tend to score higher Baloch and lower Caucasian versus Kashmiris. They are also usually less East Asian admixed than Koshur speaking Kashmiris (1-3% or so for Paharis versus 4.5-5%+ for Kashmiris).

So, imo, Pahari admixture isn't synonymous with Koshur Kashmiris (both groups are fairly distinct) but there is some similarity but not significantly more in comparison to other NW South Asians.

Koshur_Sam
02-07-2018, 02:29 AM
Nehru's are Kashmiri Pandits with R2 ydna

Fellow R2 Kashmiri here too ;)

Koshur_Sam
02-07-2018, 02:37 AM
My GEDMatch Harappa results for comparison

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 36.56
2 S-Indian 33.58
3 Caucasian 13.91
4 NE-Euro 8.52
5 NE-Asian 3.22
6 Beringian 1.04
7 Siberian 1.04


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 kashmiri_harappa @ 4.064928
2 kashmiri-pandit_reich @ 4.186894
3 punjabi_harappa @ 4.978486
4 up-muslim_harappa @ 5.628189
5 punjabi-jatt-muslim_harappa @ 5.710090
6 pushtikar-brahmin_harappa @ 5.893005
7 gujarati-muslim_harappa @ 5.949738
8 punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 6.084645
9 kashmiri-pahari_harappa @ 6.744030
10 singapore-indian-c_sgvp @ 6.758454
11 punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 6.904011
12 nepali_harappa @ 7.877853
13 punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 7.998734
14 rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 8.164626
15 sindhi_harappa @ 9.067569
16 punjabi-jatt-sikh_harappa @ 9.362876
17 nepalese-a_xing @ 9.700295
18 punjabi-arain_xing @ 9.842245
19 up-brahmin_harappa @ 10.943994
20 bihari-brahmin_harappa @ 11.382726

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% kashmiri_harappa +50% up-muslim_harappa @ 3.301187


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% ap-reddy_harappa +25% burusho_hgdp +25% urkarah_xing @ 2.344908

vintage_sky
02-07-2018, 09:11 PM
Koshur how did I not know this. You and I need a chat! lol

Reza
03-26-2018, 11:10 PM
So got the results of a Kashmiri Muslim family friend. Her family are from the Valley, north of Srinagar, Koshur speaking and teli by background.

MtDNA on james lick - M65a (which is coincidentally same as mine and my mum's!)

Autosomal results subtly different to what I was expecting - in terms of clustering closely with Kashmiri Pundits.

I suspect on harappaworld, the normally higher caucasian in Kashmiris is simply distributed into SW Asian and Mediterranean.


Harappaworld




# Population Percent
1 Baloch 38.31
2 S-Indian 32.76
3 Caucasian 9.76
4 NE-Euro 7.97
5 SW-Asian 3.89
6 Mediterranean 2.44
7 Beringian 1.94
8 Siberian 1.3
9 American 1.29
10 Pygmy 0.27
11 Papuan 0.06
12 NE-Asian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi (harappa) 3.15
2 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.29
3 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 4.57
4 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 4.7
5 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 4.72
6 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 4.75
7 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 4.96
8 up-muslim (harappa) 5.07
9 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 5.33
10 punjabi-arain (xing) 6.35
11 kashmiri (harappa) 6.48
12 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.56
13 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.74
14 sindhi (harappa) 7.8
15 nepalese-a (xing) 8.22
16 sindhi (hgdp) 8.51
17 up-brahmin (harappa) 8.71
18 haryana-jatt (harappa) 11.08
19 bhatia (harappa) 11.17
20 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 11.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.7% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 6.3% yemen-jew (behar) @ 2.06
2 93.7% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 6.3% saudi (behar) @ 2.14
3 93.6% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 6.4% bedouin (hgdp) @ 2.18
4 92.3% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 7.7% yemenese (behar) @ 2.29
5 93.2% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 6.8% qatari (henn2012) @ 2.3
6 97.1% punjabi (harappa) + 2.9% tunisia (henn2012) @ 2.34
7 68.9% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 31.1% cochin-jew (behar) @ 2.34
8 96.9% punjabi (harappa) + 3.1% mozabite (hgdp) @ 2.35
9 97% punjabi (harappa) + 3% saharawi (henn2012) @ 2.35
10 97% punjabi (harappa) + 3% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 2.35
11 96.9% punjabi (harappa) + 3.1% algeria (henn2012) @ 2.39
12 97% punjabi (harappa) + 3% moroccan (behar) @ 2.43
13 93% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 7% egyptian (behar) @ 2.43
14 92.9% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 7.1% egypt (henn2012) @ 2.44
15 96.9% punjabi (harappa) + 3.1% libya (henn2012) @ 2.48
16 92.8% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 7.2% palestinian (hgdp) @ 2.49
17 64.9% up-muslim (harappa) + 35.1% sindhi (hgdp) @ 2.53
18 97.3% punjabi (harappa) + 2.7% morocco-s (henn2012) @ 2.58
19 92.7% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 7.3% jordanian (behar) @ 2.6
20 93.5% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 6.5% samaritian (behar) @ 2.63



Eurogenes K36




Amerindian 1.30
Arabian -
Armenian 4.12
Basque 1.23
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 0.91
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 1.49
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 2.81
Fennoscandian 0.19
French 1.83
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 1.94
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy 0.37
Siberian -
South_Asian 33.17
South_Central_Asian 48.18
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 2.47
West_Med -



PuntDNAL K15 Global




1 South_Asia 38.04
2 West_Asia 36.07
3 NE_Europe 10.39
4 SW_Asia 4.75
5 SW_Europe 3.66
6 Americas 3.46
7 Siberia 1.75
8 West_Africa 1.09
9 Oceania 0.44
10 South_Africa 0.35

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kashmir_Pandit 5.64
2 Sindhi 6.86
3 Punjabi 7.55
4 Burusho 10.86
5 Tamil_Nadu_Brahmin 13.74
6 Pakistan_Pashtun 14.89
7 Pathan 15.09
8 Balochi 15.57
9 Makrani 15.73
10 Brahui 15.98
11 Bengali 16.88
12 Afghan_Pashtun 17.85
13 Velamas 20.17
14 UP_Muslim 22.55
15 Tamil_Nadu_Caste 23.07
16 Kurumba 23.74
17 Piramalai_Kallars 24.59
18 Tadjik 25.76
19 Chenchus 25.98
20 Gond 27.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.8% Kashmir_Pandit + 6.2% Bedouin @ 4.06
2 60.4% Pathan + 39.6% UP_Muslim @ 4.13
3 93.6% Kashmir_Pandit + 6.4% Saudi @ 4.16
4 58.3% Afghan_Pashtun + 41.7% Piramalai_Kallars @ 4.27
5 93% Kashmir_Pandit + 7% Yemeni @ 4.28
6 56.1% Afghan_Pashtun + 43.9% UP_Muslim @ 4.34
7 93.9% Kashmir_Pandit + 6.1% Egyptian_Copts @ 4.41
8 60.9% Pakistan_Pashtun + 39.1% UP_Muslim @ 4.43
9 57.4% Afghan_Pashtun + 42.6% Kurumba @ 4.45
10 93.5% Kashmir_Pandit + 6.5% Egyptian @ 4.45
11 63% Pakistan_Pashtun + 37% Piramalai_Kallars @ 4.48
12 69% Pathan + 31% Hakkipikki @ 4.48
13 75.9% Sindhi + 24.1% Bengali @ 4.52
14 60.5% Kashmir_Pandit + 39.5% Sindhi @ 4.53
15 56.7% Afghan_Pashtun + 43.3% Tamil_Nadu_Caste @ 4.54
16 62.7% Pathan + 37.3% Piramalai_Kallars @ 4.54
17 66.8% Pathan + 33.2% Sakilli @ 4.55
18 69.3% Pakistan_Pashtun + 30.7% Hakkipikki @ 4.55
19 89.2% Sindhi + 10.8% Paniya @ 4.56
20 65% Afghan_Pashtun + 35% Hakkipikki @ 4.56



MDLP K16




# Population Percent
1 Indian 52.59
2 Caucasian 25.52
3 Steppe 7.99
4 NorthEastEuropean 3.67
5 Arctic 2.81
6 SouthEastAsian 2.48
7 Oceanic 2.19
8 Amerindian 1.43
9 NearEast 1.19
10 Siberian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Gujjar (Punjab) 3.61
2 Jatt (Pahari) 4.59
3 Pathan (Punjab) 5.1
4 Kashmiri_Pandit (Kashmir) 6.68
5 Jatt (Muslim) 7.04
6 Meena (Rajasthan) 7.72
7 Sindhi (Sindh) 7.73
8 Brahmin (India) 9.11
9 Balochi (Baluchistan) 10.17
10 Burusho (Pakistan) 10.25
11 Brahui (Baluchistan) 10.36
12 Jatt (Haryana) 10.47
13 Kshatriya (India) 10.69
14 Kalash (Khyber_Pakhtunkhwa) 10.97
15 Pashtun (Pakistan) 11.03
16 GujaratiA (Gujarat) 11.36
17 Brahmin (Uttar_Pradesh) 11.59
18 Brahmin (Tamil_Nadu) 11.6
19 Jew (Mumbai) 11.95
20 Vaish (Odisha) 12.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 3.7% Tlingit (NA) @ 2.87
2 97.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 2.8% Athabask (NA) @ 2.93
3 97% Gujjar (Punjab) + 3% Greenlander (WestGreenland) @ 2.97
4 97.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 2.8% Greenlander (EastGreenland) @ 2.97
5 92.6% Gujjar (Punjab) + 7.4% Shugnan (Badachshan) @ 3.04
6 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Quechua (NA) @ 3.05
7 68% Gujjar (Punjab) + 32% Pathan (Punjab) @ 3.05
8 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Cachi (NA) @ 3.05
9 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Colla (NA) @ 3.05
10 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Wichi (NA) @ 3.06
11 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Mixtec (NA) @ 3.06
12 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Mayan (NA) @ 3.06
13 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Pima (NA) @ 3.07
14 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Zapotec (NA) @ 3.07
15 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Mixe (NA) @ 3.07
16 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Bolivian (Cochabamba) @ 3.07
17 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Karitiana (NA) @ 3.07
18 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Surui (NA) @ 3.08
19 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Piapoco (NA) @ 3.08
20 97.8% Gujjar (Punjab) + 2.2% Eskimo (Greenland) @ 3.1



Gedrosia K9 ASI




# Population Percent
1 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 51.37
2 Ancestral_South_Indian 13.2
3 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 11.78
4 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 9.36
5 SE_Asian 5.84
6 Siberian_E_Asian 3.43
7 WHG 2.94
8 SW_Asian 2.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pathan 6.27
2 Punjabi 7.67
3 Pashtun_Afghan 7.93
4 Kurd_SE 8.51
5 Kalash 8.51
6 Burusho 8.67
7 Balochi 14.31
8 Brahui 15.21
9 Tajik_Afghan 16.47
10 Makrani 16.56
11 Tajik_Pomiri 16.7
12 Uzbek_Afghan 19.01
13 KOTIAS 20.96
14 Bengali 23.55
15 Lezgin 24.12
16 Azeri_Dagestan 24.2
17 Chechen 25.77
18 Iranian 25.98
19 Kurd_C 26.13
20 Hazara_Afghan 26.37

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.6% Punjabi + 6.4% LBK_EN @ 3.59
2 93.6% Punjabi + 6.4% Anatolia_Neolithic @ 3.61
3 92.8% Punjabi + 7.2% Iceman @ 4.35
4 92.2% Punjabi + 7.8% Stuttgart @ 4.6
5 96% Pathan + 4% LBK_EN @ 4.7
6 96% Pathan + 4% Anatolia_Neolithic @ 4.71
7 86.6% Kalash + 13.4% Kharia @ 4.74
8 89.8% Kalash + 10.2% Kusunda @ 4.82
9 86.5% Kalash + 13.5% Ho @ 4.86
10 91.1% Kurd_SE + 8.9% Great_Andamanese @ 4.86
11 93.9% Kalash + 6.1% Ami @ 4.9
12 93.4% Kalash + 6.6% Dai @ 4.99
13 82.2% Punjabi + 17.8% Adygei @ 5.12
14 51.5% Punjabi + 48.5% Pashtun_Afghan @ 5.16
15 82.7% Punjabi + 17.3% Kumyk @ 5.24
16 81% Punjabi + 19% Azeri_Dagestan @ 5.29
17 66.5% Pathan + 33.5% Kurd_SE @ 5.31
18 82% Punjabi + 18% Chechen @ 5.32
19 88.4% Kalash + 11.6% Papuan @ 5.33
20 86.1% Punjabi + 13.9% Turkish @ 5.33

Sapporo
03-27-2018, 06:02 AM
@Reza

Do you mind sharing what platform she was tested on (23andMe V5, Ancestry DNA, FTDNA, etc.) as well as her Eurogenes K13, Eurogenes ANE K7, Dodecad V3, MDLP K23b and puntDNAL K12 Modern results? Also, does she use a stereotypically common Kashmiri surname such as Bhat/Butt, Dar, Mir, Wani, Lone, etc?

I really hope khana can run the Kashmiri Muslim samples he downloaded soon. They were collected from the Valley as well. I have a feeling some might score like her with lower Caucasian offset by high SW Asian and some Med.

edit: Also, try running her kit no. on GEDMatch and see what cousins pop up in her one to one matches. I'm sure you'll find a few Kashmiri Muslims and maybe some Pandits.

Sapporo
05-03-2018, 12:09 PM
Found a Kashmiri from the UK in a Tarkhan's one to one matches:

Mohsin Butt - M492231

Tested on V4 with Y-DNA: L3* & mtdna: U2c


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 36.07
2 S-Indian 31.77
3 Caucasian 12.91
4 NE-Euro 9.31
5 Siberian 2.98
6 SW-Asian 2.35
7 Beringian 1.4
8 NE-Asian 1.39
9 Papuan 0.91
10 American 0.78
11 W-African 0.11
12 SE-Asian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri (harappa) 3.68
2 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 3.84
3 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 3.97
4 punjabi (harappa) 4.02
5 up-muslim (harappa) 5
6 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.06
7 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 5.48
8 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 5.83
9 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 6.45
10 sindhi (harappa) 6.69
11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.86
12 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 6.95
13 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 7.49
14 nepalese-a (xing) 8.55
15 punjabi-arain (xing) 8.79
16 pathan (hgdp) 9.92
17 up-brahmin (harappa) 10.25
18 haryana-jatt (harappa) 10.5
19 burusho (hgdp) 10.91
20 sindhi (hgdp) 10.92

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.6% pashtun (harappa) + 47.4% meghawal (reich) @ 1.86
2 55.9% pashtun (harappa) + 44.1% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) @ 1.92
3 54% pashtun (harappa) + 46% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) @ 2.01
4 90.3% sindhi (harappa) + 9.7% paniya (chaubey) @ 2.06
5 54% pashtun (harappa) + 46% gujarati (harappa) @ 2.07
6 85.9% pathan (hgdp) + 14.1% paniya (chaubey) @ 2.11
7 53.1% pashtun (harappa) + 46.9% maharashtrian (harappa) @ 2.14
8 90.1% sindhi (harappa) + 9.9% pulliyar (metspalu) @ 2.15
9 55.7% pashtun (harappa) + 44.3% iyer-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.16
10 51.5% pashtun (harappa) + 48.5% gujarati-b (hapmap) @ 2.16
11 52.7% pashtun (harappa) + 47.3% up-kshatriya (metspalu) @ 2.2
12 54.5% pashtun (harappa) + 45.5% tn-brahmin (xing) @ 2.23
13 92.8% punjabi (harappa) + 7.2% nogai (yunusbayev) @ 2.23
14 56% pashtun (harappa) + 44% rajasthani (harappa) @ 2.27
15 57.3% pashtun (harappa) + 42.7% ap-brahmin (xing) @ 2.28
16 90.1% sindhi (harappa) + 9.9% irula (xing) @ 2.31
17 80.6% pathan (hgdp) + 19.4% kurumba (reich) @ 2.37
18 59.4% pashtun (harappa) + 40.6% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) @ 2.38
19 86.4% sindhi (harappa) + 13.6% chenchu (reich) @ 2.4
20 53.3% pashtun (harappa) + 46.7% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.41



This appears to be the relative (tested on Ancestry) of Mohsin Butt:

Ali Butt - A056782


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 40.01
2 S-Indian 32.29
3 Caucasian 11.51
4 NE-Euro 7.85
5 SW-Asian 1.92
6 Beringian 1.36
7 Siberian 1.24
8 Papuan 1.06
9 NE-Asian 1.05
10 American 0.94
11 Mediterranean 0.39
12 SE-Asian 0.34
13 San 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi (harappa) 1.41
2 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 2.21
3 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 2.9
4 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 3.36
5 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 3.51
6 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 3.51
7 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 4.42
8 punjabi-arain (xing) 4.82
9 kashmiri (harappa) 4.85
10 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 5.3
11 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.36
12 sindhi (harappa) 6
13 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.13
14 up-muslim (harappa) 6.25
15 sindhi (hgdp) 7.2
16 nepalese-a (xing) 8.37
17 bhatia (harappa) 9.37
18 up-brahmin (harappa) 9.54
19 pathan (hgdp) 9.74
20 burusho (hgdp) 10.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 95.9% punjabi (harappa) + 4.1% balochi (hgdp) @ 1.02
2 96.5% punjabi (harappa) + 3.5% brahui (hgdp) @ 1.04
3 92.8% punjabi (harappa) + 7.2% kalash (hgdp) @ 1.04
4 96.5% punjabi (harappa) + 3.5% makrani (hgdp) @ 1.05
5 88.5% punjabi (harappa) + 11.5% sindhi (hgdp) @ 1.06
6 84.2% punjabi (harappa) + 15.8% punjabi-arain (xing) @ 1.1
7 91.5% punjabi (harappa) + 8.5% bhatia (harappa) @ 1.12
8 69.6% pathan (hgdp) + 30.4% ap-reddy (harappa) @ 1.12
9 87.4% punjabi (harappa) + 12.6% sindhi (harappa) @ 1.13
10 71.4% sindhi (harappa) + 28.6% tn-brahmin (xing) @ 1.17
11 92.8% punjabi (harappa) + 7.2% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.2
12 70.7% sindhi (harappa) + 29.3% gujarati (harappa) @ 1.2
13 72.5% sindhi (harappa) + 27.5% iyer-brahmin (harappa) @ 1.21
14 54.3% punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) + 45.7% kashmiri-pahari (harappa) @ 1.22
15 70.8% sindhi (harappa) + 29.2% maharashtrian (harappa) @ 1.25
16 75.9% sindhi (harappa) + 24.1% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) @ 1.28
17 69.9% sindhi (harappa) + 30.1% meghawal (reich) @ 1.28
18 76.2% punjabi (harappa) + 23.8% kashmiri-pandit (reich) @ 1.29
19 71.2% sindhi (harappa) + 28.8% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) @ 1.3
20 98.8% punjabi (harappa) + 1.2% kurd (xing) @ 1.31


They have the same email attached to the kit and the shared segments are too high for a non-relative.

One of M. Butt's top GEDMatch one to one matches is this Kashmiri from Canada:

E. Ali (WD40_2) - M438213


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 38.61
2 S-Indian 33.48
3 Caucasian 12.55
4 NE-Euro 8.76
5 NE-Asian 2.45
6 Siberian 1.12
7 American 0.96
8 Beringian 0.7
9 Papuan 0.59
10 SW-Asian 0.45
11 SE-Asian 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 2.06
2 punjabi (harappa) 2.83
3 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 3.64
4 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 4.11
5 kashmiri (harappa) 4.16
6 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 4.2
7 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.51
8 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 5.33
9 up-muslim (harappa) 5.68
10 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.79
11 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 5.87
12 punjabi-arain (xing) 6.96
13 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 7.28
14 sindhi (harappa) 7.33
15 nepalese-a (xing) 7.7
16 up-brahmin (harappa) 9
17 sindhi (hgdp) 9.49
18 pathan (hgdp) 10.62
19 bhatia (harappa) 10.69
20 burusho (hgdp) 10.86

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.6% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 5.4% nepalese-c (xing) @ 1.5
2 97.7% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 2.3% nepalese-b (xing) @ 1.6
3 97.9% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 2.1% pulliyar (metspalu) @ 1.66
4 96.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.6% chenchu (metspalu) @ 1.67
5 98% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 2% irula (xing) @ 1.68
6 98% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 2% paniya (chaubey) @ 1.68
7 98.9% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 1.1% japanese (1000genomes) @ 1.7
8 96.9% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.1% tamil-vishwakarma (harappa) @ 1.7
9 98.7% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 1.3% nysha (reich) @ 1.71
10 98.7% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 1.3% aonaga (reich) @ 1.71
11 97.2% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 2.8% north-kannadi (chaubey) @ 1.72
12 98.7% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 1.3% naga (metspalu) @ 1.72
13 97.2% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 2.8% kurumba (reich) @ 1.72
14 97.1% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 2.9% ap-madiga (xing) @ 1.72
15 94.7% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 5.3% bengali (harappa) @ 1.72
16 97.2% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 2.8% hakkipikki (metspalu) @ 1.72
17 76.2% kashmiri (harappa) + 23.8% gujarati-b (hapmap) @ 1.72
18 97% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3% sakilli (chaubey) @ 1.73
19 96.8% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 3.2% kamsali (reich) @ 1.73
20 95% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 5% kerala-muslim (harappa) @ 1.74

pegasus
05-03-2018, 01:27 PM
So got the results of a Kashmiri Muslim family friend. Her family are from the Valley, north of Srinagar, Koshur speaking and teli by background.

MtDNA on james lick - M65a (which is coincidentally same as mine and my mum's!)

Autosomal results subtly different to what I was expecting - in terms of clustering closely with Kashmiri Pundits.

I suspect on harappaworld, the normally higher caucasian in Kashmiris is simply distributed into SW Asian and Mediterranean.


Harappaworld




# Population Percent
1 Baloch 38.31
2 S-Indian 32.76
3 Caucasian 9.76
4 NE-Euro 7.97
5 SW-Asian 3.89
6 Mediterranean 2.44
7 Beringian 1.94
8 Siberian 1.3
9 American 1.29
10 Pygmy 0.27
11 Papuan 0.06
12 NE-Asian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi (harappa) 3.15
2 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.29
3 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 4.57
4 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 4.7
5 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 4.72
6 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 4.75
7 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 4.96
8 up-muslim (harappa) 5.07
9 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 5.33
10 punjabi-arain (xing) 6.35
11 kashmiri (harappa) 6.48
12 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.56
13 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.74
14 sindhi (harappa) 7.8
15 nepalese-a (xing) 8.22
16 sindhi (hgdp) 8.51
17 up-brahmin (harappa) 8.71
18 haryana-jatt (harappa) 11.08
19 bhatia (harappa) 11.17
20 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 11.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.7% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 6.3% yemen-jew (behar) @ 2.06
2 93.7% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 6.3% saudi (behar) @ 2.14
3 93.6% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 6.4% bedouin (hgdp) @ 2.18
4 92.3% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 7.7% yemenese (behar) @ 2.29
5 93.2% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 6.8% qatari (henn2012) @ 2.3
6 97.1% punjabi (harappa) + 2.9% tunisia (henn2012) @ 2.34
7 68.9% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 31.1% cochin-jew (behar) @ 2.34
8 96.9% punjabi (harappa) + 3.1% mozabite (hgdp) @ 2.35
9 97% punjabi (harappa) + 3% saharawi (henn2012) @ 2.35
10 97% punjabi (harappa) + 3% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 2.35
11 96.9% punjabi (harappa) + 3.1% algeria (henn2012) @ 2.39
12 97% punjabi (harappa) + 3% moroccan (behar) @ 2.43
13 93% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 7% egyptian (behar) @ 2.43
14 92.9% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 7.1% egypt (henn2012) @ 2.44
15 96.9% punjabi (harappa) + 3.1% libya (henn2012) @ 2.48
16 92.8% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 7.2% palestinian (hgdp) @ 2.49
17 64.9% up-muslim (harappa) + 35.1% sindhi (hgdp) @ 2.53
18 97.3% punjabi (harappa) + 2.7% morocco-s (henn2012) @ 2.58
19 92.7% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 7.3% jordanian (behar) @ 2.6
20 93.5% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 6.5% samaritian (behar) @ 2.63



Eurogenes K36




Amerindian 1.30
Arabian -
Armenian 4.12
Basque 1.23
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 0.91
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 1.49
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 2.81
Fennoscandian 0.19
French 1.83
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 1.94
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy 0.37
Siberian -
South_Asian 33.17
South_Central_Asian 48.18
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 2.47
West_Med -



PuntDNAL K15 Global




1 South_Asia 38.04
2 West_Asia 36.07
3 NE_Europe 10.39
4 SW_Asia 4.75
5 SW_Europe 3.66
6 Americas 3.46
7 Siberia 1.75
8 West_Africa 1.09
9 Oceania 0.44
10 South_Africa 0.35

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kashmir_Pandit 5.64
2 Sindhi 6.86
3 Punjabi 7.55
4 Burusho 10.86
5 Tamil_Nadu_Brahmin 13.74
6 Pakistan_Pashtun 14.89
7 Pathan 15.09
8 Balochi 15.57
9 Makrani 15.73
10 Brahui 15.98
11 Bengali 16.88
12 Afghan_Pashtun 17.85
13 Velamas 20.17
14 UP_Muslim 22.55
15 Tamil_Nadu_Caste 23.07
16 Kurumba 23.74
17 Piramalai_Kallars 24.59
18 Tadjik 25.76
19 Chenchus 25.98
20 Gond 27.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.8% Kashmir_Pandit + 6.2% Bedouin @ 4.06
2 60.4% Pathan + 39.6% UP_Muslim @ 4.13
3 93.6% Kashmir_Pandit + 6.4% Saudi @ 4.16
4 58.3% Afghan_Pashtun + 41.7% Piramalai_Kallars @ 4.27
5 93% Kashmir_Pandit + 7% Yemeni @ 4.28
6 56.1% Afghan_Pashtun + 43.9% UP_Muslim @ 4.34
7 93.9% Kashmir_Pandit + 6.1% Egyptian_Copts @ 4.41
8 60.9% Pakistan_Pashtun + 39.1% UP_Muslim @ 4.43
9 57.4% Afghan_Pashtun + 42.6% Kurumba @ 4.45
10 93.5% Kashmir_Pandit + 6.5% Egyptian @ 4.45
11 63% Pakistan_Pashtun + 37% Piramalai_Kallars @ 4.48
12 69% Pathan + 31% Hakkipikki @ 4.48
13 75.9% Sindhi + 24.1% Bengali @ 4.52
14 60.5% Kashmir_Pandit + 39.5% Sindhi @ 4.53
15 56.7% Afghan_Pashtun + 43.3% Tamil_Nadu_Caste @ 4.54
16 62.7% Pathan + 37.3% Piramalai_Kallars @ 4.54
17 66.8% Pathan + 33.2% Sakilli @ 4.55
18 69.3% Pakistan_Pashtun + 30.7% Hakkipikki @ 4.55
19 89.2% Sindhi + 10.8% Paniya @ 4.56
20 65% Afghan_Pashtun + 35% Hakkipikki @ 4.56



MDLP K16




# Population Percent
1 Indian 52.59
2 Caucasian 25.52
3 Steppe 7.99
4 NorthEastEuropean 3.67
5 Arctic 2.81
6 SouthEastAsian 2.48
7 Oceanic 2.19
8 Amerindian 1.43
9 NearEast 1.19
10 Siberian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Gujjar (Punjab) 3.61
2 Jatt (Pahari) 4.59
3 Pathan (Punjab) 5.1
4 Kashmiri_Pandit (Kashmir) 6.68
5 Jatt (Muslim) 7.04
6 Meena (Rajasthan) 7.72
7 Sindhi (Sindh) 7.73
8 Brahmin (India) 9.11
9 Balochi (Baluchistan) 10.17
10 Burusho (Pakistan) 10.25
11 Brahui (Baluchistan) 10.36
12 Jatt (Haryana) 10.47
13 Kshatriya (India) 10.69
14 Kalash (Khyber_Pakhtunkhwa) 10.97
15 Pashtun (Pakistan) 11.03
16 GujaratiA (Gujarat) 11.36
17 Brahmin (Uttar_Pradesh) 11.59
18 Brahmin (Tamil_Nadu) 11.6
19 Jew (Mumbai) 11.95
20 Vaish (Odisha) 12.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 3.7% Tlingit (NA) @ 2.87
2 97.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 2.8% Athabask (NA) @ 2.93
3 97% Gujjar (Punjab) + 3% Greenlander (WestGreenland) @ 2.97
4 97.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 2.8% Greenlander (EastGreenland) @ 2.97
5 92.6% Gujjar (Punjab) + 7.4% Shugnan (Badachshan) @ 3.04
6 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Quechua (NA) @ 3.05
7 68% Gujjar (Punjab) + 32% Pathan (Punjab) @ 3.05
8 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Cachi (NA) @ 3.05
9 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Colla (NA) @ 3.05
10 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Wichi (NA) @ 3.06
11 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Mixtec (NA) @ 3.06
12 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Mayan (NA) @ 3.06
13 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Pima (NA) @ 3.07
14 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Zapotec (NA) @ 3.07
15 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Mixe (NA) @ 3.07
16 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Bolivian (Cochabamba) @ 3.07
17 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Karitiana (NA) @ 3.07
18 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Surui (NA) @ 3.08
19 98.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.7% Piapoco (NA) @ 3.08
20 97.8% Gujjar (Punjab) + 2.2% Eskimo (Greenland) @ 3.1



Gedrosia K9 ASI




# Population Percent
1 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 51.37
2 Ancestral_South_Indian 13.2
3 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 11.78
4 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 9.36
5 SE_Asian 5.84
6 Siberian_E_Asian 3.43
7 WHG 2.94
8 SW_Asian 2.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pathan 6.27
2 Punjabi 7.67
3 Pashtun_Afghan 7.93
4 Kurd_SE 8.51
5 Kalash 8.51
6 Burusho 8.67
7 Balochi 14.31
8 Brahui 15.21
9 Tajik_Afghan 16.47
10 Makrani 16.56
11 Tajik_Pomiri 16.7
12 Uzbek_Afghan 19.01
13 KOTIAS 20.96
14 Bengali 23.55
15 Lezgin 24.12
16 Azeri_Dagestan 24.2
17 Chechen 25.77
18 Iranian 25.98
19 Kurd_C 26.13
20 Hazara_Afghan 26.37

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.6% Punjabi + 6.4% LBK_EN @ 3.59
2 93.6% Punjabi + 6.4% Anatolia_Neolithic @ 3.61
3 92.8% Punjabi + 7.2% Iceman @ 4.35
4 92.2% Punjabi + 7.8% Stuttgart @ 4.6
5 96% Pathan + 4% LBK_EN @ 4.7
6 96% Pathan + 4% Anatolia_Neolithic @ 4.71
7 86.6% Kalash + 13.4% Kharia @ 4.74
8 89.8% Kalash + 10.2% Kusunda @ 4.82
9 86.5% Kalash + 13.5% Ho @ 4.86
10 91.1% Kurd_SE + 8.9% Great_Andamanese @ 4.86
11 93.9% Kalash + 6.1% Ami @ 4.9
12 93.4% Kalash + 6.6% Dai @ 4.99
13 82.2% Punjabi + 17.8% Adygei @ 5.12
14 51.5% Punjabi + 48.5% Pashtun_Afghan @ 5.16
15 82.7% Punjabi + 17.3% Kumyk @ 5.24
16 81% Punjabi + 19% Azeri_Dagestan @ 5.29
17 66.5% Pathan + 33.5% Kurd_SE @ 5.31
18 82% Punjabi + 18% Chechen @ 5.32
19 88.4% Kalash + 11.6% Papuan @ 5.33
20 86.1% Punjabi + 13.9% Turkish @ 5.33



Teli are Mustard oil sellers typically, they like Bakarwals are considered to have come from the South. I suspect Shina from Pahalgam and other northern rural areas would be most different, culturally they are very similar to people in Gilgit and even Kho. They are famous for their Hareep dance.

Sapporo
05-03-2018, 02:03 PM
@pegasus

I found this peculiar kit high in M. Butt's GEDmatch one to one matches:

Zubair Tah



Kit: A553949

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 33.52
2 S-Indian 29.51
3 Caucasian 17.01
4 SW-Asian 5.77
5 NE-Euro 5.03
6 Mediterranean 3.33
7 NE-Asian 2.5
8 American 1.65
9 SE-Asian 0.96
10 Beringian 0.41
11 Papuan 0.31
12 E-African 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 5.9
2 kashmiri (harappa) 7.22
3 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 8.78
4 up-muslim (harappa) 8.91
5 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 9.14
6 sindhi (harappa) 9.72
7 punjabi (harappa) 9.86
8 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 10.1
9 bene-israel-jew (behar) 10.49
10 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 11.84
11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 11.96
12 pathan (hgdp) 12.01
13 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 12.02
14 pashtun (harappa) 12.1
15 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 12.18
16 punjabi-arain (xing) 12.65
17 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 13.12
18 burusho (hgdp) 13.71
19 sindhi (hgdp) 13.9
20 kalash (hgdp) 14.46

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.9% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.1% cypriot (behar) @ 2.08
2 89.8% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.2% lebanese-christian (haber) @ 2.26
3 89% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11% lebanese (behar) @ 2.28
4 61.6% gujarati (harappa) + 38.4% iranian (behar) @ 2.29
5 90.8% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 9.2% druze (hgdp) @ 2.29
6 90.6% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 9.4% samaritian (behar) @ 2.3
7 63% gujarati (harappa) + 37% kurd (harappa) @ 2.3
8 89.4% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.6% georgia-jew (behar) @ 2.32
9 89.7% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.3% lebanese-druze (haber) @ 2.32
10 89.2% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.8% lebanese-muslim (haber) @ 2.34
11 88.8% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.2% syrian (behar) @ 2.37
12 88.3% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.7% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) @ 2.37
13 89.3% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.7% iraq-jew (behar) @ 2.38
14 88.4% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.6% turk (behar) @ 2.43
15 88.1% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.9% uzbekistan-jew (behar) @ 2.43
16 88.6% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.4% palestinian (harappa) @ 2.43
17 89.5% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.5% azerbaijan-jew (behar) @ 2.43
18 88.3% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.7% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) @ 2.44
19 87.4% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 12.6% turkish (harappa) @ 2.45
20 89.2% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.8% iranian-jew (behar) @ 2.46

Does that name ring any bells to you? That Caucasian score is not too far off some Lohana and Khatris but the SW Asian is on the high end even for Pashtuns. However, the NE Asian is there too.

pegasus
05-03-2018, 05:12 PM
@pegasus

I found this peculiar kit high in M. Butt's GEDmatch one to one matches:

Zubair Tah



Kit: A553949

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 33.52
2 S-Indian 29.51
3 Caucasian 17.01
4 SW-Asian 5.77
5 NE-Euro 5.03
6 Mediterranean 3.33
7 NE-Asian 2.5
8 American 1.65
9 SE-Asian 0.96
10 Beringian 0.41
11 Papuan 0.31
12 E-African 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 5.9
2 kashmiri (harappa) 7.22
3 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 8.78
4 up-muslim (harappa) 8.91
5 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 9.14
6 sindhi (harappa) 9.72
7 punjabi (harappa) 9.86
8 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 10.1
9 bene-israel-jew (behar) 10.49
10 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 11.84
11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 11.96
12 pathan (hgdp) 12.01
13 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 12.02
14 pashtun (harappa) 12.1
15 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 12.18
16 punjabi-arain (xing) 12.65
17 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 13.12
18 burusho (hgdp) 13.71
19 sindhi (hgdp) 13.9
20 kalash (hgdp) 14.46

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.9% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.1% cypriot (behar) @ 2.08
2 89.8% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.2% lebanese-christian (haber) @ 2.26
3 89% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11% lebanese (behar) @ 2.28
4 61.6% gujarati (harappa) + 38.4% iranian (behar) @ 2.29
5 90.8% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 9.2% druze (hgdp) @ 2.29
6 90.6% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 9.4% samaritian (behar) @ 2.3
7 63% gujarati (harappa) + 37% kurd (harappa) @ 2.3
8 89.4% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.6% georgia-jew (behar) @ 2.32
9 89.7% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.3% lebanese-druze (haber) @ 2.32
10 89.2% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.8% lebanese-muslim (haber) @ 2.34
11 88.8% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.2% syrian (behar) @ 2.37
12 88.3% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.7% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) @ 2.37
13 89.3% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.7% iraq-jew (behar) @ 2.38
14 88.4% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.6% turk (behar) @ 2.43
15 88.1% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.9% uzbekistan-jew (behar) @ 2.43
16 88.6% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.4% palestinian (harappa) @ 2.43
17 89.5% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.5% azerbaijan-jew (behar) @ 2.43
18 88.3% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 11.7% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) @ 2.44
19 87.4% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 12.6% turkish (harappa) @ 2.45
20 89.2% gujarati-muslim (harappa) + 10.8% iranian-jew (behar) @ 2.46

Does that name ring any bells to you? That Caucasian score is not too far off some Lohana and Khatris but the SW Asian is on the high end even for Pashtuns. However, the NE Asian is there too.

A good amount of Kashmiri Muslims in particular Shias have a good amount of modern Iranian ancestry, in particular the Shia business class in Srinagar, as trades like carpet weaving, saffron production, samovar manufacturing were brought by Iranians and some Bukhara Jews. This guy looks to be one of them. They look a different as well, some of them remind me of Mizrahi Jews.

jazmb
05-19-2018, 05:12 PM
I will take the claims of belonging to various clans, biradaris by people in Pakistani Punjab with a pinch of salt as there is no organized caste classification system in Pakistan. I personally know two families in my area in Sialkot who claim to be Butt Kashmiri but one of them is actually Kumhar and the other one is Tarkhan/Lohar or something like this. Similarly I know a Nai family in our area in Sialkot city who have come from a distant village of Sialkot mainly inhabited by Cheema Jatts, this Nai family writes Cheema with their names in all official and non-official documents or posters during elections, their National ID cards and certificate of Births all have Cheema inserted along with their name yet the whole neighborhood knows that they are not Jatt but Nai from a village mainly inhabited by Cheema Jatt. Similary another Nai family in the neighborhood of my friend is using Sandhu Jatt family name. I am describing the real life situation in Pakistan. The caste/Clan claims are quite dubious in almost all cities of Punjab Pakistan because we don't have any Brahmin class here awarding people some caste status, here people just follow trends in the big cities, so if Malik family name is in fashion you will see many artisan class families taking up Malik surname or claim. My advice of caution , never take caste/clan claims of Pakistanis seriously, they could be anything and claiming anything which they want to and no one in the cities really care about their caste/surname claims as these claims don't have any significance in our society unless someone is economically rich and politically influential in his area. For example almost all my Butt caste/clan friends have never been able to pinpoint which particular city/town/village of Kashmir valley they have migrated from, they have no clue which is so strange given that whichever Kashmiris settled in Punjab have done so within last 150-200 years, this isn't a long time span to forget the name of your original city/town or village in Kashmir. Many of my Butt friends simply say they are Kashmiri Paharis so they are from mountains of Kashmir, in fact very rarely you will see some Kashmiri Butt who says that their ancestors came from Kashmir valley and can pinpoint their ancestral city/town/village in Kashmir valley. So become Kashmiri Butt is also part of a trend that extends to many other clan/caste names in Lahore/Gujranwala/Sialkot region, heck I even know one highly mixed family who were Pathan/Mughal/Mirasi mixed origin who also started claiming being Kashmiri Butt in our area because they were light skinned a trait often associated with Kashmiri Butt origin people in our area, there is a dubious "Rajput" family (some think they are Mirasis pretending to be Rajput) in my own street and their son was telling in his school that he belongs to Butt family because he looked fat and many in our area associate being fat with Butt families. So you can see how fragile the so called clan/caste claims are in big cities of Pakistani Punjab.

pegasus
05-20-2018, 04:29 AM
I will take the claims of belonging to various clans, biradaris by people in Pakistani Punjab with a pinch of salt as there is no organized caste classification system in Pakistan. I personally know two families in my area in Sialkot who claim to be Butt Kashmiri but one of them is actually Kumhar and the other one is Tarkhan/Lohar or something like this. Similarly I know a Nai family in our area in Sialkot city who have come from a distant village of Sialkot mainly inhabited by Cheema Jatts, this Nai family writes Cheema with their names in all official and non-official documents or posters during elections, their National ID cards and certificate of Births all have Cheema inserted along with their name yet the whole neighborhood knows that they are not Jatt but Nai from a village mainly inhabited by Cheema Jatt. Similary another Nai family in the neighborhood of my friend is using Sandhu Jatt family name. I am describing the real life situation in Pakistan. The caste/Clan claims are quite dubious in almost all cities of Punjab Pakistan because we don't have any Brahmin class here awarding people some caste status, here people just follow trends in the big cities, so if Malik family name is in fashion you will see many artisan class families taking up Malik surname or claim. My advice of caution , never take caste/clan claims of Pakistanis seriously, they could be anything and claiming anything which they want to and no one in the cities really care about their caste/surname claims as these claims don't have any significance in our society unless someone is economically rich and politically influential in his area. For example almost all my Butt caste/clan friends have never been able to pinpoint which particular city/town/village of Kashmir valley they have migrated from, they have no clue which is so strange given that whichever Kashmiris settled in Punjab have done so within last 150-200 years, this isn't a long time span to forget the name of your original city/town or village in Kashmir. Many of my Butt friends simply say they are Kashmiri Paharis so they are from mountains of Kashmir, in fact very rarely you will see some Kashmiri Butt who says that their ancestors came from Kashmir valley and can pinpoint their ancestral city/town/village in Kashmir valley. So become Kashmiri Butt is also part of a trend that extends to many other clan/caste names in Lahore/Gujranwala/Sialkot region, heck I even know one highly mixed family who were Pathan/Mughal/Mirasi mixed origin who also started claiming being Kashmiri Butt in our area because they were light skinned a trait often associated with Kashmiri Butt origin people in our area, there is a dubious "Rajput" family (some think they are Mirasis pretending to be Rajput) in my own street and their son was telling in his school that he belongs to Butt family because he looked fat and many in our area associate being fat with Butt families. So you can see how fragile the so called clan/caste claims are in big cities of Pakistani Punjab.

Well to say there is no kind of caste structure in Western Punjab would be ignorant, you might call it tribalism but it has the same modulus operandi, though I agree its no where as rigid as it is in parts of rural Northern India. Also I do agree many Pakistani Punjabi claiming Kashmiri descent when they are essentially Mirpuri Punjabis which is odd because they are not that many ethnic Kashmiris to begin with compared to the sea of millions of Punjabis.

purohit
06-07-2018, 07:46 AM
Looks like kashmiri muslims are basically all brahmins. But why they sometime looks like afghans? But we despite having similar(almost) genetics looks like central indians?

pegasus
06-07-2018, 12:24 PM
Looks like kashmiri muslims are basically all brahmins. But why they sometime looks like afghans? But we despite having similar(almost) genetics looks like central indians?

Some were former Brahmins, but many were not.
Central Indians are usually very tribal shifted ie Adivasis. Over all most Kashmiris are closely related with Gujar populations in Western Pakistan and some Punjabi groups, who in turn are very similar to those Saidu Sharif groups from 400 BC. Living in high altitude mountainous areas there is a positive selection for certain traits, larger noses, light skin, leptomorphic faces.

Kulin
06-07-2018, 03:43 PM
Looks like kashmiri muslims are basically all brahmins. But why they sometime looks like afghans? But we despite having similar(almost) genetics looks like central indians?

Probably bigger diversity among them as they're a bigger population. Many Kashmiri Pandits can also look a bit exotic like Raj Zutshi. Most Kashmiris regardless of religion look pretty "South Asian" and similar. Never met Kashmiri Muslims from the valley in real life, but have met Kashmiris from Punjab, and Pandits and all have a similar appearance to me.

purohit
06-07-2018, 04:22 PM
Probably bigger diversity among them as they're a bigger population. Many Kashmiri Pandits can also look a bit exotic like Raj Zutshi. Most Kashmiris regardless of religion look pretty "South Asian" and similar. Never met Kashmiri Muslims from the valley in real life, but have met Kashmiris from Punjab, and Pandits and all have a similar appearance to me.

2 kashmiri engineers used to workout with me one was pandit and other was wani. Pandit was darker than me and wani was lighter. They both fit in rajasthan easily. There heights were short 5'6 5'7. They used to talk with each other in kashmiri. I was not able to understand a single word. Two jaat engineers also used to come there. They looked very different. One was sikh jatt(light skin 5'6) and other was from hisar(6ft) Hisar jaat was very non indian looking. When me and my friend saw him first time to mere dost no bola angrej aaya hai gym mein

pegasus
06-07-2018, 04:34 PM
Probably bigger diversity among them as they're a bigger population. Many Kashmiri Pandits can also look a bit exotic like Raj Zutshi. Most Kashmiris regardless of religion look pretty "South Asian" and similar. Never met Kashmiri Muslims from the valley in real life, but have met Kashmiris from Punjab, and Pandits and all have a similar appearance to me.

Most Kashmir Brahmins are split into 2 , Karkun and non Karkun like Purabs, Karkuns are local, the others are Brahmins from Jammu or Himachal Pradesh, they form a tiny portion of the ethnic group 5-7%. Kashmiri Muslims form the remainder and have more diverse looks as they have mixed with Shina and some of the other Dardic groups in Baltistan, also some traders/merchant families in particular Shites have mixed with Iranian traders. They don't have a pan South Asian look , so I would not say they that either, they fit the cline with other upper caste NW South Asian groups but with unique accretions owing to the climate and isolation of the valley which has acted like a refigium in ways. Outside the valley the closest group which resembles them for whatever reason seem be certain Sikh groups IMO , why that is I am not sure, but its my observation.