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Kurd
01-26-2018, 01:39 PM
Finally a long needed DNA study of the various ethnic groups of Iraq using 500 samples. Too bad it was restricted to Y-DNA STRs and not a genomewide study. Here is an excerpt from http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0187408


A glimpse at the intricate mosaic of ethnicities from Mesopotamia: Paternal lineages of the Northern Iraqi Arabs, Kurds, Syriacs, Turkmens and Yazidis


Introduction

Often considered as one of the cradles of human civilization, Mesopotamia encompasses the ancient fertile lands defined by the Tigris and Euphrates river systems. Today, these lands are largely situated in Iraq, which shares borders with Jordan to the west, Syria to the north-west, Turkey to the north, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to the south and Iran to the east (Fig 1). Iraq has a population of ~40 million, comprising mainly of Arabs and Kurds, but also the Assyrians, Turkmens, Shabakis, Yazidis, Armenians, Mandeans, Circassians, and Kawliya minorities. Accordingly, population genetics of Iraqis is of interest not only because of this ethnic diversity, but also due to the fact that the country was home to the Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian and Babylonian civilizations, and ruled by the Persians, Greeks, Arabs, Mongolians, Ottomans and British [1, 2].

The birthplaces of the 500 samples are as follows:

https://i.imgur.com/MpsOyID.jpg



Not surprisingly, Kurds (n = 104) were the ethnic group that had the highest frequency of R1a and J2 which is consistent with previous studies on the Kurds of Iran and Turkey.

https://i.imgur.com/5EspfRl.jpg



What they also did was calculate genetic distance based on the Y-DNA STRs. A couple of things to keep in mind with this:

1- Y-DNA STRs reveal ancient relationships between those population because unlike STRs in the autosome they don't change from father to son. Thus they reflect old relationships going back to the TMRCA for the haplogroups they used, which are pretty deep into the phylogentic tree;

2- Females don't enter the equation here since we are talking patrilineal ancestors only

After removing a couple of non-informative groups, this is the sorted list of genetic distance to Kurds with the closest on top, based on their TABLE 3:

https://i.imgur.com/GbCpFpa.png?1

itsmrhoax
03-02-2018, 10:42 PM
Very interesting

ms85
05-10-2018, 02:27 PM
Finally a long needed DNA study of the various ethnic groups of Iraq using 500 samples. Too bad it was restricted to Y-DNA STRs and not a genomewide study. Here is an excerpt from http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0187408


The birthplaces of the 500 samples are as follows:


Not surprisingly, Kurds (n = 104) were the ethnic group that had the highest frequency of R1a and J2 which is consistent with previous studies on the Kurds of Iran and Turkey.


What they also did was calculate genetic distance based on the Y-DNA STRs. A couple of things to keep in mind with this:

1- Y-DNA STRs reveal ancient relationships between those population because unlike STRs in the autosome they don't change from father to son. Thus they reflect old relationships going back to the TMRCA for the haplogroups they used, which are pretty deep into the phylogentic tree;

2- Females don't enter the equation here since we are talking patrilineal ancestors only

After removing a couple of non-informative groups, this is the sorted list of genetic distance to Kurds with the closest on top, based on their TABLE 3:Yezidis (here 'Yazidis') are also Kurds. Their native language is Kurmanji, Northern Kurdish dialect. Yezidis have kept the original Kurdish/Median religion close to Mithraism and don't mix with outsiders. You are Yezidi only when both of your parents are born Yezidi.

jesus
05-12-2018, 02:08 AM
Any idea about the Yazidi L subclades?

ms85
05-12-2018, 08:28 PM
Ezidi religion was either reformed or found after Islam's spread like Bahai faith in Iran. They speak very close dialects to kurmanji spoken by muslim kurds in Mardin and Qamishlo. It would not surprise me, if muslim kurds from these regions also have high r1b frequencies.

We don't have any sources whether if kurds were zoroastrian or mithraist but most likely kurds were zoroastrian.Yezidism was never found after Islam because Ezdi Kurds never believed in 'Allah' and his prophet called Mohammed and never accepted him. So Ezdi Kurds were never Muslims at the first place, sicne they never believed in Allah or Mohammed.


Yezidi call their God 'Xode' or 'Xode Shems'. They believe in 7 Sumerian angels. Tause Melek is the supreme angel of the 7 angels. But Ezdi Kurds honour all the 7 angels.


The ancient Medes were Mitraists and since Kurds are from the ancient Medes, native religion of Kurds is Mitra. Ezdi Kurds are the 'Sun' worshippers. 'Xode Shems' means in Kurdish 'Sun God'. Xode = God and Shamash/Utu was the Sumerians Sun God. Mithra was a 'Sun God' of Mitanni and the Medes etc.


Ezdi Kurds are one of the 'purest' Kurds. R1b can be connected to PIEans and therefore to proto-west Iranians (Aryans) like Mitanni/Medes.

ms85
05-12-2018, 08:57 PM
I never heard any kurd using Shams for sun, but in arabic it means sun. They have a prophet/reformer who has a arabic name. (shx ad) and he was born after islam's spread.


Ezdi Kurds call their God, ‘Xode Shems’. This is a fact! Just ask any Ezdi you meet.

And Shamas is an ancient Mesopotamian name for the Sun God.

"Shamash, (Akkadian), Sumerian Utu, in Mesopotamian religion, the god of the sun, who, with the moon god, Sin (Sumerian: Nanna), and Ishtar (Sumerian: Inanna), the goddess of Venus, was part of an astral triad of divinities. Shamash was the son of Sin"

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Shamash

The origin of Shex Adi is disputed. Ezdi Kurds are divided by 3 classes: Shexs, Pirs and Mrids. Those 3 classes don't marry each other. But we have got DNA of all those 3 classes and they are similar to each other. People from all these 3 classes are the same by DNA. They are full of CHG/Iranian neolithic farmer DNA like most West Iranian do. Actually Ezdi Kurds have more CHG/Iranian neolithic farmer DNA than most of the other Kurds. This can be seen as an indication that Ezdi Kurds are less mixed than other Kurds.

Yezidi Kurds predate Islam by thousands of years, because Yezidi Kurds still have their original religion and NEVER believed in Allah and never accepted his prophet Mohammed. The NEVER believe in Mohammed, so they are older.


This Ezdi guy is mentioning Shems in Kurmnaji:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD22f7JtuU8



Sun as most important symbol:

https://s31.postimg.cc/6qvllnwd7/0a04fdd09197383ce02d114a6aca747f.jpg



Sun at the entrance of Lalish:

https://s31.postimg.cc/j5idlzvl7/c_data_users_defapps_appdata_internetexplorer_temp _saved-images.jpg

ms85
05-12-2018, 09:19 PM
I know they are calling their "xod shems". I meant that the word shams isn't of kurdish origin and the shams is not used by any kurds its arabic word. even yezidis dont call the sun "shams".

SHAMS (شمس) in arabic means SUN. And the word SHAMS it is not present in ANY kurdish or iranian language and I doubt if it is present in historical languages like parthian, middle persian or old persian.Shamas is an ancient word and predate the Arabs.

Shamas was the ancient Mesopotamian Sun God. Shamas is much, much, much older than Arabs.


Maybe Arabs took this word from the Akkadians?


About Mithra in Kurdistan:

https://s31.postimg.cc/q12m5dspn/ein_altiranischer_mythos_im_heutigen_kurdistan.mp4 _snapshot_33.3.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/c7e9gekpn/ein_altiranischer_mythos_im_heutigen_kurdistan.mp4 _snapshot_43.5.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/x4ahl4nwb/ein_altiranischer_mythos_im_heutigen_kurdistan.mp4 _snapshot_45.2.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wn623TlM98




Mitanni ROYAL seal


https://s31.postimg.cc/m5z82ju1n/image.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/l68x6qzff/2000px-_Royal_seal_of_au_tatar_of_Mitanni.svg.png



Ezdixan Ezdi seal from Lalish holiest temple:

https://s31.postimg.cc/3qer5jl6j/gerb.jpg

https://s31.postimg.cc/toidb6dor/image.png
https://s31.postimg.cc/h8lnhccm3/Lalish_holy_temple_entrance.jpg

ms85
05-12-2018, 09:31 PM
"Shx, Pirs and Murids" these are common words used by muslims. Shkh (شيخ ) (old) and murid (المريد) (disciple) are words of arabic origin. Pr (meaning old) is used also by anatolian and iranian sufis, alevis and so on. It means old in persian just like the kurdish word pr (old).I don't know. But Ezdi Kurds are MORE Kurds than other Kurds. Ezdi Kurds are the 'purest' Kurds. DNA of Ezdi Kurds is more pure than DNA of Muslim Kurds. Muslim Kurds accepted the GOD of the Arabs, while Ezdi Kurds still have their own Iranic Sun God after thousands of years being loyal to the Sun God.


It has been said that Kurds are children of the sun and fire.

ms85
05-12-2018, 09:39 PM
the resembleance of mitanni and yezidi seals are interesting however.In a treaty between the Hittites and the Mitanni (between Suppiluliuma and Shattiwaza, c. 1380 BC) Mitra (SUN God) was mentioned as a deity.


The Medes believed also in Mithra. "The Medes had an ancient Iranian religion (a form of pre-Zoroastrian Mazdaism or Mithra worshipping) with a priesthood named as "Magi"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes


Sumerian Sun God, Mitanni/Medes Sun God and Ezdi Sun God are all the same. That's why it has been said that the Yezism is an ancient North Mesopotamian religion.



"Before ancient religious reformer Zarathustra (Greek name Zoroaster) gained influence in the region during the 6th century bce, the Iranians had a polytheistic religion, and Mithra was the most important of their gods."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mithraism

ms85
05-12-2018, 09:49 PM
it can be in aramaic. arabic evolved from aramaic. and this building was in possession of aramaics before shex adi gave it back to ezdi kurds.

Akra20m
05-12-2018, 10:03 PM
that sounds a lot of kurdo-centrism.

Do you have yezidi samples or gedmatch kits?

There are some scripts in the wall on that picture you posted. (written in arabic scrip - wether it is kurmanji or arabic I dont know). I wonder the translation of these scripts.

You are absolutely right. I tried to look for better pictures. I can at least read بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم "In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful".
It might not be Arabic, but it is certainly written in Arabic script.
23104

another pic
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b4/46/f5/b446f505f46a7a500f05267c4edf1bc5.jpg

ms85
05-12-2018, 10:27 PM
You are absolutely right. I tried to look for better pictures. I can at least read بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم "In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful".
It might not be Arabic, but it is certainly written in Arabic script.
23104

another pic
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b4/46/f5/b446f505f46a7a500f05267c4edf1bc5.jpgWhich line, I don't see it.

https://s31.postimg.cc/g564jgwvv/rgtre.jpg

ms85
05-12-2018, 10:32 PM
There are some Arabic-scripts there. I will try to read it tomorrow. they aren't pahlavi scripts. left corner of the door.

well I wish you could share some kit numbers. but here I post my results:

MDLP K16:

1 Caucasian 47.85
2 Indian 16.97
3 Steppe 11.04
4 Neolithic 9.8
5 NearEast 8.2
6 NorthEastEuropean 2.24
7 Siberian 1.5
8 Oceanic 1.18
9 Amerindian 0.91
10 EastAfrican 0.3

1 Kurd (Syria) 2.72
2 Iran_Lor (Lor) 2.98
3 Zoroastrian (Iran) 3.77
4 Iranian (Iran) 3.88
5 Iranian (Fars) 3.92
6 Azeri (Azerbaijan) 4.27
7 Jew (Uzbekistan) 5.44
8 Iranian (Kerman) 5.84
9 Azerbaijani (Azerbaijan) 6.74
10 Azerbaijani_Dagestan (Azerbaijan_Dagestan) 7.08
11 Azerbaijani_Dagestan (Azerbaijan_Dagestan) 7.2
12 Azerbaijani_Khachmaz (Azerbaijan_Khachmaz) 7.3
13 Iran_Mazandrani (Mazandrani) 7.74
14 Assyrian (Iraq) 7.82
15 Iraki (Irak) 7.91
16 Azerbaijani_Agdzhabedi (Azerbaijan_Agdzhabedi) 7.94
17 Armenian (Chambarak) 8.04
18 Armenian (Gavar) 8.21
19 Armenian (Martuni) 8.26
20 Azerbaijani (Baku) 8.3

1 94.5% Kurd (Syria) + 5.5% Balochi (Baluchistan) @ 2.02
2 94.5% Kurd (Syria) + 5.5% Brahui (Baluchistan) @ 2.02
3 95.1% Kurd (Syria) + 4.9% Pathan (Punjab) @ 2.05
4 93.9% Kurd (Syria) + 6.1% Makrani (Pakistan) @ 2.06
5 96.3% Kurd (Syria) + 3.7% Kalash (Khyber_Pakhtunkhwa) @ 2.08
6 92.2% Kurd (Syria) + 7.8% Pashtun (Afganistan) @ 2.08
7 95.7% Kurd (Syria) + 4.3% Gujjar (Punjab) @ 2.08
8 94% Kurd (Syria) + 6% Pashtun (Pakistan) @ 2.09
9 96.1% Kurd (Syria) + 3.9% Sindhi (Sindh) @ 2.09
10 95% Kurd (Syria) + 5% Jatt (Haryana) @ 2.1
11 96.1% Kurd (Syria) + 3.9% Meena (Rajasthan) @ 2.11
12 96.5% Kurd (Syria) + 3.5% GujaratiA (Gujarat) @ 2.11
13 96.8% Kurd (Syria) + 3.2% GujaratiB (Gujarat) @ 2.13
14 95.5% Kurd (Syria) + 4.5% Kashmiri_Pandit (Kashmir) @ 2.14
15 97.3% Kurd (Syria) + 2.7% GujaratiC (Gujarat) @ 2.15
16 65.2% Kurd (Syria) + 34.8% Zoroastrian (Iran) @ 2.16
17 96% Kurd (Syria) + 4% Burusho (Pakistan) @ 2.16
18 96.4% Kurd (Syria) + 3.6% Kshatriya (India) @ 2.17
19 97.5% Kurd (Syria) + 2.5% GujaratiD (Gujarat) @ 2.18
20 96.1% Kurd (Syria) + 3.9% Brahmin (India) @ 2.18

Eurogenes K13


1 West_Asian 40.98
2 East_Med 25.83
3 South_Asian 9.44
4 West_Med 6.71
5 Red_Sea 6.1
6 Baltic 3.98
7 North_Atlantic 3.58
8 Amerindian 1.49
9 Sub-Saharan 0.81
10 Oceanian 0.44
11 Siberian 0.41
12 Northeast_African 0.23

1 Kurdish 4.04
2 Iranian 5.44
3 Azeri 7.4
4 Armenian 11.64
5 Turkish 12.61
6 Kumyk 12.67
7 Georgian_Jewish 12.73
8 Georgian 13.1
9 Adygei 14.25
10 Abhkasian 14.7
11 Assyrian 15.76
12 Ossetian 15.87
13 Balkar 16.25
14 Turkmen 16.6
15 North_Ossetian 16.86
16 Kabardin 17.19
17 Iranian_Jewish 17.99
18 Lezgin 18.11
19 Chechen 18.14
20 Kurdish_Jewish 18.52

1 89.9% Kurdish + 10.1% Balochi @ 2.51
2 91.3% Kurdish + 8.7% Kalash @ 2.52
3 90.1% Kurdish + 9.9% Brahui @ 2.58
4 88.4% Kurdish + 11.6% Makrani @ 2.66
5 88.8% Kurdish + 11.2% Afghan_Pashtun @ 2.68
6 77% Iranian + 23% Ossetian @ 2.81
7 92.4% Kurdish + 7.6% Burusho @ 2.82
8 93.1% Kurdish + 6.9% Punjabi_Jat @ 2.85
9 92.1% Kurdish + 7.9% Pathan @ 2.86
10 73.5% Iranian + 26.5% Georgian @ 2.92
11 93.2% Kurdish + 6.8% Sindhi @ 2.94
12 90.1% Kurdish + 9.9% Tadjik @ 3.13
13 95.3% Kurdish + 4.7% Brahmin_UP @ 3.21
14 95.4% Kurdish + 4.6% Gujarati @ 3.22
15 69.4% Georgian_Jewish + 30.6% Balochi @ 3.23
16 76.1% Iranian + 23.9% Adygei @ 3.25
17 95.6% Kurdish + 4.4% Kshatriya @ 3.26
18 89.4% Kurdish + 10.6% Tabassaran @ 3.27
19 88.3% Kurdish + 11.7% Chechen @ 3.27
20 90.7% Kurdish + 9.3% Afghan_Tadjik @ 3.28
Sorry for privacy


Ezdi Kurd


MDLP K16

https://s31.postimg.cc/miv7mvme3/image.jpg

Eurogenes K13

https://s31.postimg.cc/db2z68s7f/image.jpg

Kulin
05-12-2018, 10:32 PM
@ms85, you keep referring to Mitanni and their supposed relation to Kurds and whatnot, but the Mitanni were basically native Hurrians with an Indo-Aryan (not Iranian) aristocracy.

Kikkuli, the Hurrian horse trainer clearly mentions "Aika" corresponding to Sanskrit "Eka" as opposed to Iranian "Aiva" which suggests that the Mitanni were Indo-Aryan, and not Iranian.

Furthermore, other facts confirming this belief are the fact of the names of Gods mentioned in the treaties formed by the Mitanni with Hittites. These include, Indra (one of the prime dieties in Vedic Hinduism), Varuna (Vedic deity of the Sky and water), Nasatya (Two divine horsemen deities) among others that are not found in the Iranian pantheon of Gods, and only in the Vedic one.

The Name of Mitr (Vedic God of Treaties) is mentioned, which is a cognate of the Mithra in the Iranian pantheon, ultimately descending from Indo-Iranian Mitra, but in the case of the Mitanni, it refers to the Vedic God. The names of Mitanni rulers also confirms this fact.

In any case of the matter, the Mitanni lands were fully taken over by the incoming Assyrians, and the Hurrian language spoken by the majority became extinct in the area (only surviving as Urartian near the Armenian Highlands), while the Sanskrit dialect spoken by the Mitanni elite completely vanished.

ms85
05-12-2018, 10:43 PM
@ms85, you keep referring to Mitanni and their supposed relation to Kurds and whatnot, but the Mitanni were basically native Hurrians with an Indo-Aryan (not Iranian) aristocracy.

Kikkuli, the Hurrian horse trainer clearly mentions "Aika" corresponding to Sanskrit "Eka" as opposed to Iranian "Aiva" which suggests that the Mitanni were Indo-Aryan, and not Iranian.

Furthermore, other facts confirming this belief are the fact of the names of Gods mentioned in the treaties formed by the Mitanni with Hittites. These include, Indra (one of the prime dieties in Vedic Hinduism), Varuna (Vedic deity of the Sky and water), Nasatya (Two divine horsemen deities) among others that are not found in the Iranian pantheon of Gods, and only in the Vedic one.

The Name of Mitr (Vedic God of Treaties) is mentioned, which is a cognate of the Mithra in the Iranian pantheon, ultimately descending from Indo-Iranian Mitra, but in the case of the Mitanni, it refers to the Vedic God. The names of Mitanni rulers also confirms this fact.

In any case of the matter, the Mitanni lands were fully taken over by the incoming Assyrians, and the Hurrian language spoken by the majority became extinct in the area (only surviving as Urartian near the Armenian Highlands), while the Sanskrit dialect spoken by the Mitanni elite completely vanished.Mitanni were proto-Iranian. The Medes evolved from them. Mitanni were similar to the Kassites.


In Kurdish 1 = 'Yek' and not 'Aiva'.

1= Aika = Yek (Kurdish)

You don't believe me? Use google translate.


Mitanni believed in many GODS, like Hittites and Kassites. Hittites also believed in Indra, Varuna etc. Doesn't make them also Indic.


Sanskrit is for 99% the same as Avestan. And Avestan is Eastern Iranic. Mitanni spoke some kind of proto-Iranian, or proto-West Iranian dialect.

Kulin
05-12-2018, 10:46 PM
Mitanni were proto-Iranian. The Medes evolved from them. Mitanni were similar to the Kassites.


In Kurdish 1 = 'Yek' and not 'Aiva'.

1= Aika = Yek (Kurdish)

You don't believe me? Use google translate.


Mitanni believed in many GODS, like Hittites and Kassites. Hittites also believed in Indra, Varuna etc. Doesn't make them also Indic.


Sanskrit is for 99% the same as Avestan. And Avestan is Eastern Iranic. Mitanni spoke some kind of proto-Iranian, or proto-West Iranian dialect.

Can you cite some credible sources in terms of the names of the Gods, especially in relation to the Hittites worshiping Indra/Varuna etc?

ms85
05-12-2018, 10:54 PM
Here: https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23104&d=1526162473

first line.


But it looks like there is definitely some reformations after Islam. probably by shkh ad.I don't see. it is very different!

Yeah, there was some reformation by Sufism when Shex Adi arrived. Yezidism is a little bit influenced by Sufism. But Sufism itself was also influenced by Zoroastrianism


Nevertheless

MDLP K16:

You

1 West_Asian 40.98
2 East_Med 25.83
3 South_Asian 9.44
4 West_Med 6.71
5 Red_Sea 6.1
6 Baltic 3.98
7 North_Atlantic 3.58
8 Amerindian 1.49
9 Sub-Saharan 0.81
10 Oceanian 0.44
11 Siberian 0.41
12 Northeast_African 0.23

Ezdi Kurd

1 West_Asian 39.6
2 East_Med 31.77
3 South_Asian 8.5
4 West_Med 7.71
5 Red_Sea 5.03
6 Baltic 3.21
7 North_Atlantic 2.3
8 Siberian 1.01
9 Sub-Saharan 0.42
10 Amerindian 0.38
11 Northeast_African 0.06


Eurogenes K13

You

1 Caucasian 47.85
2 Indian 16.97
3 Steppe 11.04
4 Neolithic 9.8
5 NearEast 8.2
6 NorthEastEuropean 2.24
7 Siberian 1.5
8 Oceanic 1.18
9 Amerindian 0.91
10 EastAfrican 0.3

Ezdi Kurd

1 Caucasian 50.06
2 Indian 16.23
3 Steppe 11.82
4 Neolithic 10.11
5 NearEast 8.74
6 Amerindian 0.89
7 EastAfrican 0.57
8 NorthEastEuropean 0.56
9 Arctic 0.45
10 Siberian 0.32
11 NorthAfrican 0.26


Looks very similar

Lupus82
05-12-2018, 11:07 PM
Goga, is it you? Since you are so insistent with your claim, I assume you are :)

ms85
05-12-2018, 11:07 PM
@ms85:

I have more south-asian and indian scores than yezidi kurd (not real south asian but neolithic iranian). and I get closer to zoroastrian than the yezidi. I know my results aren't typical but what does that mean for the yezidi kurd?

In my opinion they have had much more contact with muslim kurds than you think.Are you Lori Kurd. Your results look like you are from Eastern Iran. Lori Kurds had a lot contact with Persians.


Ezdi Kurds don't even mary among each other, do you really think they would marry outside their own religion. When an Ezdi Kurd marries somebody else outside own religion, his or her children are not considered Ezdi anymore. You are Ezdi when both of your parents are Ezdi.


Can I see your Dodecad K12b results?


1 Caucasus 37.76
2 Gedrosia 28.04
3 Southwest_Asian 14.71
4 Atlantic_Med 8.76
5 North_European 4.87
6 South_Asian 2.69
7 Northwest_African 1.76
8 Siberian 0.88
9 Southeast_Asian 0.32
10 East_Asian 0.21

https://s31.postimg.cc/nrnolto63/dodecad.jpg

ms85
05-12-2018, 11:18 PM
Can you cite some credible sources in terms of the names of the Gods, especially in relation to the Hittites worshiping Indra/Varuna etc?What do you mean? Those names occurred in Hittites texts. The Hittites mentioned them and not the Mitanni.

The land of the Hittites was the land of thousands deities or a nation of thousands GODS.

Lehmann, J. (1977). The Hittites: people of a thousand gods. HarperCollins.

Kulin
05-12-2018, 11:26 PM
What do you mean? Those names occurred in Hittites texts. The Hittites mentioned them and not the Mitanni.

The land of the Hittites was the land of thousands deities or a nation of thousands GODS.

Um not really, they were found in the treaties that the Hittites had formed with the Mitanni as Gods of the Mitanni, not in any other Hittite texts. It would be sort of odd that the Hittites mention these particular deities in this only particular treaty, while having never mentioned them again.

This only tells me you have no concrete proof/source. Indra/Varuna etc are all from the Vedic Pantheon, which is an accepted fact in any academic source you look at. Indra for e.g. is the Indro Aryan continuation/modification of the Indo-Iranian God Verethragna, so it would not make sense if deities like Indra suddenly appear in Hittite mythology, which is an unrelated Centum Speaking IE culture.

ms85
05-12-2018, 11:30 PM
Can you read arabic?

K12bThanks. Ezdi Kurd has higher 'Gedrosia' according to Dodecad K12b calculator.

I believe it is still the best calculator on Gedmatch. Oldie but goodie.



I can't read Arabic and to be honest I don't see any resembles. it looks very very different to my eyes.


Btw, it it most likely written in Aramaic. Arabic evolved from the Aramaic. And this building was in possession of Aramaics before Shex Adi gave it back to Ezdi Kurds again.

ms85
05-12-2018, 11:42 PM
Um not really, they were found in the treaties that the Hittites had formed with the Mitanni as Gods of the Mitanni, not in any other Hittite texts. It would be sort of odd that the Hittites mention these particular deities in this only particular treaty, while having never mentioned them again.

This only tells me you have no concrete proof/source. Indra/Varuna etc are all from the Vedic Pantheon, which is an accepted fact in any academic source you look at. Indra for e.g. is the Indro Aryan continuation/modification of the Indo-Iranian God Verethragna, so it would not make sense if deities like Indra suddenly appear in Hittite mythology, which is an unrelated Centum Speaking IE culture.Ok, all what we got is the name of Indra, Varuna in Hittites texts. It was written by the Hittites and not by Mitanni.

I don't know more about it than you.

Humanist
05-13-2018, 01:12 AM
it can be in aramaic. arabic evolved from aramaic. and this building was in possession of aramaics before shex adi gave it back to ezdi kurds.

That is not the word for "sun" in the form of Aramaic spoken in Iraqi Kurdistan. Our word for "sun" is emā. I agree with Mori Yek, the form you have cited likely came from Arabic.

ms85
05-13-2018, 01:28 AM
That is not the word for "sun" in the form of Aramaic spoken in Iraqi Kurdistan. Our word for "sun" is šemšā. I agree with Mori Yek, the form you have cited likely came from Arabic.I had about the writing on that temple in Lalish. It could be written in Aramaic. I don't know. I cant's read. I must ask somebody who is more informed.


Btw, I don't understand why Ezdi Kurds would refer to their (Sun) God partly in Arabic? Xode Shems. 'Xode' is an Iranic name for 'God'. Why would they use Arabic name for 'Sun'? Arabs don't have a Sun God, they call their God 'Allah'.

Xode = God = sounds very Iranic to me
Shems = Sun = can be just an abbreviation from Shamash?



Native language of Ezdi Kurds is Kurmanji and not Arabic. They pray in Kurmanji.

Kurd
05-13-2018, 02:32 AM
Sun in Kurmanji is Hataav

See here for similarities between Yezidism and Hinduism

http://murugan.org/research/yezidis.hindus.malik.taus.htm

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-yazidi-culture-is-very-similar-to-a-hindu-sect-ancient-hindu-lost-tribe.331191/

Edit:the 1st line in the arabic script is bism illah alrahman alrahim (in the name of god the merciful)

The rest is not clear. 1st word is Khaliq (creator). Maybe someone fluent in Arabic can read it

ms85
05-13-2018, 02:49 AM
Sun in Kurmanji is Hataav

See here for similarities between Yezidism and Hinduism

http://murugan.org/research/yezidis.hindus.malik.taus.htm

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-yazidi-culture-is-very-similar-to-a-hindu-sect-ancient-hindu-lost-tribe.331191/I think 'Shams' is just a Mesopotamian name for 'Sun'. Nothing to do with the Arabs.


I read on your site quoting Izady.


He wrote this: "The Mittanis could have introduced during this early period some of the Indic/Vedic tradition that appears to be manifest in the Kurdish religion of Yazdanism."

http://www.eurasiandna.com/2017/02/06/hello-world/


Maybe he was right? I mean, according to this new study on Northern Iraq, Yezidi Kurds score almost 12% of Y-DNA hg. L. As far as I know is L not native to Mesopotamia. It is possible that it arrived from Central Asia with Mitanni.



There is a huge difference between Hinduism and Yezidism. Cow is holy in Hinduism, while Yezidis sacrifice an ox in their ceremonies.

"They sacrifice an ox, which is one reason they have been connected to Mithraism, in addition to the presence of the dog and serpent in their iconography. The sacrifice of the ox is meant to declare the arrival of fall and to ask for precipitation during winter to bring back life to the Earth in the next spring. Moreover, in astrology, the ox is the symbol of Tashrīn."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis



I think that Yezidism is closer related to Buddhism than Hinduism. But at the end of the day, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Mithraism, Yezidism are all part of the Indo-Iranian world.

ms85
05-13-2018, 12:29 PM
Yes, but those Rojava and Mardin Kurds were Ezdi Kurds in the past before they converted into Islam.