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breckenheimer
09-17-2013, 10:49 PM
Up til now, the split of Z305/Z306 between DF96 and DF98 ("king's cluster") appeared to be predictable by the STR DYF395S1. DF96 men were usually 15-15, whereas DF98 men were 16-15. But now Wilson, kit 47991, who is 16-15 has tested positive for DF96.

Not sure how to explain this other than coincidental parallel mutation. It should become clearer after more results come in.

vramos11
02-03-2016, 05:30 PM
Up til now, the split of Z305/Z306 between DF96 and DF98 ("king's cluster") appeared to be predictable by the STR DYF395S1. DF96 men were usually 15-15, whereas DF98 men were 16-15. But now Wilson, kit 47991, who is 16-15 has tested positive for DF96.

Not sure how to explain this other than coincidental parallel mutation. It should become clearer after more results come in.

I am new to the board, so bear with me.
I am supposedly a DF96 with a DYF395S1 of 15-16. Can you enlighten me as to its meaning, if any? Thanks!

Johnr1974
10-10-2018, 12:50 AM
I also have a STR DYF39551 of 15-16. Would I test positive for DF96 or DF98, or neither?

Bollox79
10-11-2018, 02:29 AM
Up til now, the split of Z305/Z306 between DF96 and DF98 ("king's cluster") appeared to be predictable by the STR DYF395S1. DF96 men were usually 15-15, whereas DF98 men were 16-15. But now Wilson, kit 47991, who is 16-15 has tested positive for DF96.

Not sure how to explain this other than coincidental parallel mutation. It should become clearer after more results come in.

Hmm... I think you might not have the DF98 motif correct - I am DF98 and also share some sub groups with Dr. Iain McDonald (he maintains the King's Cluster PDF and is also DF98+)... I'm sure Dr. Iain (he's the expert on the STRs etc) could tell you the percentage of likelihood you are DF98 if you have the 16-16 mutation at S395S1 - but I remember it's very high as in the early days when I would search for possible DF98 kits (helping Dr. Iain with some leg work) I would first look for DYS492 result to = 13 for U106 and then next I would look at S395S1 for the 16-16... chances are they were always DF98... if you do a quick search at the U106 DNA project and look down the DF98 positive groups - easily over 90% are 16-16... only a very small handful are 15-16 (maybe 3 at a quick glance). So DF98 men are almost always 16-16!

I guess we can always have an exception to the rule though as a quick scan through DF96 at the U106 DNA project... I am sure I saw one or two DF96+ people who had 16-16... Dr. Iain would be the expert on this stuff though as he breaks down the STRs that seem be more common among certain SNP groups under DF98 etc in his King's Cluster pdf!

Here is Dr. Iain's web site etc... http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics.html

Cheers!!

Bollox79
10-11-2018, 02:35 AM
For the other questions on here... if you are 16-16 at S395S1 and also U106+ you are very likely to be DF98... but there are always exceptions. If you guys are U106 and tested at FTDNA make sure to join the U106 DNA project headed by Charles Moore and also join the U106 yahoo forum here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b1c_U106-S21/info

You can ask questions about testing etc on the forum... and all the experts are there... though they may not immediately answer as they are very busy working in the back ground!!!

It's really important that we group all U106+ people together in one place so we can run comparisons and etc and you can benefit from Dr. Iain's dating and the group's expertise in U106 analysis! Also if you want copy my message and give it to any other U106+ people you know and think they may not be a member of the U106 DNA project or the U106 yahoo forum!

Cheers!!!

Additionally I maintain a google doc on ancient DNA samples that have been confirmed U106+. Have a look as I collect all the data and info on the burials that I can find: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1h6ZFaJe9gUtwl2r2Iu33B5_kCc6er5n9oEthCe25wV0/edit?usp=sharing

KhanShushan
06-19-2019, 10:46 PM
I am new to the board, so bear with me.
I am supposedly a DF96 with a DYF395S1 of 15-16. Can you enlighten me as to its meaning, if any? Thanks!

I'm revisiting this because no one ever answered or acknowledged it; and it appears is a gray area I also fall into.

When looking at Mr.Thomas Krahns charts ,I also by definition of str numbers sitting closer to DF98 was assigned DF96.

l seem to be in the Gray zone between DF98 and DF96
with a DYF395S1 of 15-16 not following the pattern for normal DF96 assignment mentioned above.

Can someone explain this phenomenon of some of us with DYF395S1 of 15-16 being call DF96?

Also, can we revisit the variations now seen at DYF395S1? These branches containing findings of: 15-15,16-16,15-16,and 16-15?

How are you distinguishing assignment into DF98 or DF96 at this point year 2019?

Wing Genealogist
06-20-2019, 11:04 AM
While STR results can be used to predict where a person would fall. SNP testing is still needed to prove the prediction is correct (or incorrect). In general, STRs mutate frequently (especially compared to SNPs) and parallel mutations as well as back mutations can occur.

IIRC (If I recall correctly) Dr. Iain McDonald (the DF98 & DF96 guru) has stated where he can more confidently predict many subclades below DF98 & DF96 (based on STR results) than he can predict DF98 or DF96 itself. This is due to the fact of looking at multiple STR mutations. I also believe there were some subclades which "broke the rule" about DYF395S1 (but may be mistaken on this point).

I don't think there is any difference between 15-16 and 16-15, but don't have any "proof" of this.

reyesdeleon
01-11-2020, 07:24 PM
While STR results can be used to predict where a person would fall. SNP testing is still needed to prove the prediction is correct (or incorrect). In general, STRs mutate frequently (especially compared to SNPs) and parallel mutations as well as back mutations can occur.

IIRC (If I recall correctly) Dr. Iain McDonald (the DF98 & DF96 guru) has stated where he can more confidently predict many subclades below DF98 & DF96 (based on STR results) than he can predict DF98 or DF96 itself. This is due to the fact of looking at multiple STR mutations. I also believe there were some subclades which "broke the rule" about DYF395S1 (but may be mistaken on this point).

I don't think there is any difference between 15-16 and 16-15, but don't have any "proof" of this.

I believe this should be revisited , especially since with Big Y Testing, I have rare and limited matches with any true haplogroup drifting quite away from L1 at -11 distance.

I appear to be thrown in a lost loop, despite all my testing. THE DYS439 Null group was assigned very early on over a decade ago. L1 being created because of a Null. I was later assigned a 12 at this position then it was changed to a 13?

From my family history of my Male line in America we are attached to the Last name Brown. With "no" true Brown Matches to any Septs or Browns' outside of American Brown Family.

Family oral tradition of being descendants of a Ship Captain who had a alliance to Portugal; with a wife who may have been Native American or a Portuguese Princess.

Sure, scientist have done a great job at pointing out the Kings Cluster, yet, focus on DF96 still seems limited, although, in my case coming from the same Z305+ line.

I would like point out that, very early on in American history my male line owned land early 1700's in old Rowan County and Davidson County North Carolina. We had land very Close to the Spanish Exploration of Both Soto and Pardo.

Pardo Name Meaning: Pardo Name Meaning
Spanish and Portuguese: nickname for someone with tawny hair, from pardo ‘dusky’, ‘brown’, ‘dark gray’, (from Latin pardus ‘leopard’)

The Pardo family may have derived its name from Prado in Castile, Spain or from Prado del Rey in the province of Cadiz.
The place-name Prado is derived from the Spanish word prado, which means meadow.
The Spanish word Pardo means grey.
As with the name Castro/Crasto, letters have become transposed.
The family crests above are of Spanish origin.
The town of Prado is one of many with similar name in Spain.

The PARDO family which apparently originated in Prado del Rey, Castile, and which flourished during the 16th–18th centuries in the Ottoman Empire, Italy, the Netherlands, England, and America. The more celebrated members of the family are dealt with under separate entries.
The Pardo family was scattered throughout North America, where they became known as Brown (or Browne; although the actual meaning of Pardo is "grey").

This theory may also match my family name being Brown , as well as, add to the idea of how I inherited the Noble Z381, Z305 male DNA.

Although, FTDNA's family finder origins results seem off, other types of autosomal testing show I inherited quite a huge amount of Iberian DNA.

The Pardo name has a Iberian history of Being Jewish which I have been trying to present to FTDNA since 2009.

I tested randomly for various SNPs before packages and grouping were available. I tested SNPs known to be Levite or Jewish in finding. I began testing in haplogroups different than mine with hopes of overlapping results. Individually I tested for L136 and was assigned a neg result, YET, in my Big Y marker L136 came positive. This could be a indicator I am from the Jewish Pardo line.

I do believe my line may have been connected to Iberian Ashkenazi/Sephardic groups.

Could DF96 be the House Of Bourbon? or connected to the Royal Spanish/Portuguese Germanic Families?

I hope you will visit this idea, as it matches both my DNA and my family history here in America.

My Brown line becoming very Noble here in America with Ancestors: James Stephens Brown : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stephens_Brown_(Mormon)

Ultimately, connecting into the Presidents and leaders of the LDS MORMON Church.
Wilford Woodruff another Royal DNA line being my 4th grandfather.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilford_Woodruff

Please help push discovery of DF96 being connected to the Royal families possibly coming from Iberia.

Dr. Anwar M. Ibrahim #214417

reyesdeleon
01-11-2020, 07:43 PM
https://www.tzorafolk.com/genealogy/history/pardo.htm

reyesdeleon
01-12-2020, 01:05 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardo

reyesdeleon
01-12-2020, 07:37 PM
The origin of the Melungeons has been the focus of various hypotheses. Many articles in the popular (as opposed to academic) literature highlight the exotic potential of European ancestry:
- some of the men from Hernando de Soto's 1540 expedition, or Juan Pardo's explorations of western North Carolina in 1566-67, fathered children with the local Native Americans and triggered a new genetic subgroup
- Sir Francis Drake released hundreds of Turks captured from his raid on Cartagena onto Roanoke Island in 1586, and they migrated inland over the next 400 years while retaining their distinctive physical and cultural patterns
- North African Moors sailed to the eastern edge of North America and moved to the Clinch River valley near Cumberland Gap, maintaining enough cultural and genetic cohesion to start the Melungeon community

English colonists did not intermarry widely with Native Americans. In contrast to Mexico and other places settled by Spanish and Portuguese colonists in the 1500's, Virginia did not develop a mestizo society where mixed-race heritage was common. Both social and legal barriers also blocked marriage between whites and blacks.

http://www.virginiaplaces.org/population/melungeon.html

reyesdeleon
01-12-2020, 07:44 PM
Mostly, My Brown Family in America were listed as White on records, yet, in a Stillwell Court case listing all our family matching a Brown Family Will, or family were mentioned as Mixed Blood, or, colored people.

"The defendants further saith, that since the Bill in this case has
been filed they have endeavored to ascertain whether the mother of
the said Thomas STILLWELL deceased, was related to the said James
BROWN, of whom it is alleged the Complaint purchased, & whose sister
she was; and the result of the inquiry has been, that the mother of
their intestate could not have been, or as they are persuaded, his
sister; for they show, that upon inquiry of old and respected persons, now living in Davidson County, it appears that William BROWN, /
father of James, / and the wife of William were colored people, that
they had the following children Wm. BROWN, James BROWN, Charity
BROWN, Betty BROWN, Hannah BROWN, Pepper(?) [Patsy or Margaret]
BROWN, Susanna BROWN, & Constant BROWN; the latter of whom is said to
dead, but which of the others are dead it is not known, but all of
them, or most of them are believed still to be living, or to have had
children who are living, but who live as they are informed in distant
parts of the United States, but where is unknown to any persons from
whom information has been obtained; but all of whom are colored persons, & from their appearance & complexion, afforded evidence to
every body, that they were of mixed blood; and that Pepper(?) ROBERTS, the mother of their intestate, was known to be a woman of fair
complexion & never suspected by her neighbors in Johnson County to be
mixed blood.
"

reyesdeleon
01-12-2020, 07:53 PM
https://anthrogenica.com/member.php?60-Wing-Genealogist :

Hope you consider my family history and Portuguese / Spanish connection and how it may connect to the Z381 > Z305 Family branch. Also, considering the overlaping idea of our Brown family line in America which matches no other Brown Family clans, to possible a connection to Pardo and the Spanish/Portuguese ruling Z381+ branch.

Ray, I hope you add my family history and understanding back to the U106 FTDNA group, as well as, updating Iain McDonald about our Brown family history and Portuguese Spanish connection.

reyesdeleon
01-12-2020, 08:09 PM
Family records state that William BROWN was of Scotch/Portuguese or "Portigee" descent.

Capitalis
07-29-2020, 05:01 PM
For the other questions on here... if you are 16-16 at S395S1 and also U106+ you are very likely to be DF98... but there are always exceptions. If you guys are U106 and tested at FTDNA make sure to join the U106 DNA project headed by Charles Moore and also join the U106 yahoo forum here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b1c_U106-S21/info

You can ask questions about testing etc on the forum... and all the experts are there... though they may not immediately answer as they are very busy working in the back ground!!!

It's really important that we group all U106+ people together in one place so we can run comparisons and etc and you can benefit from Dr. Iain's dating and the group's expertise in U106 analysis! Also if you want copy my message and give it to any other U106+ people you know and think they may not be a member of the U106 DNA project or the U106 yahoo forum!

Cheers!!!

Additionally I maintain a google doc on ancient DNA samples that have been confirmed U106+. Have a look as I collect all the data and info on the burials that I can find: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1h6ZFaJe9gUtwl2r2Iu33B5_kCc6er5n9oEthCe25wV0/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks for keeping the U106 document going. It's helpful for me to check in every now and then in case I've missed an ancient U106 paper.

I'm currently nearing the end of R1b-U106 Superclade Panel testing at YSEQ. To help explain the results to family I produced a spreadsheet which I'll also share here.

I'll update when I get my final results. :)

38798