PDA

View Full Version : Concerns about privacy of data of public DNA projects, etc. .....



MacUalraig
09-18-2013, 12:24 PM
I agree that peoples' data should not be added to projects or redisplayed without their permission, that gives the whole community a bad name. As for how best to spend *your* money everyone has to weigh that up based on what they are trying to find out and how advanced discoveries are in their genetic neck of the woods. But FullG is fundamentally different from just buying more STRs because the SNPs they find are effectively guaranteed to make people identical by descent whereas the additional Y37 tests you mention aren't. Being a bit of a SNP purist then I find the idea of FullG very tempting and I wouldn't call STRs a tool to 'define some boundaries' unless your circumstances are such that you can prove an IBD local tree. I take your point about your SNP being quite a recent one (I'm not clear just how young it is, sorry) but results so far indicate about 1 new SNP every 1-2 generations so you can do the maths yourself. That's a typical rate so YMMV.

As for your data, if it is gone from all public projects and ysearch etc then it isn't in the public domain and anyone displaying it is breaching your data privacy. I would suggest you write formally to anyone doing this and if they don't delete it complain to their ISP. If the project they are displaying it in has some association with FTDNA then copy in the directors too.

MacUalraig

MJost
09-18-2013, 02:16 PM
When a person purchases a FtDNA product, personal profiles are defined with an informational notices of what information entered that can be public or private. The customer has the choice. Just as the choice of joining a project, uploading to YSearch, etc. Joining a project does expose some identifying information about you to the project volunteer administrator. It may also expose non-identifying information about you through the project's Public Project Website (should it have one).

>It seems from your Post that you and Mike W view yourself as "Standard Setters".
>looking at USA Surname frequencies based on the 2000 Census
>As noted above, neither of you are for L371. I doubt neither of you have the expressed written and formal consent from FTDNA nor FTDNA paying participants to datamine / datascrape the data you are harvesting - analyzing - reposting.

With public posted Kit data, no permission is needed for researchers, "Standard Setters", hobbyists and or anyone else to take and analyze your data and incase you do not know what the word Analysis effectively means;

Wiki: 'Analysis of data is a process of inspecting, cleaning, transforming, and modeling data with the goal of discovering useful information, suggesting conclusions, and supporting decision making. Data analysis has multiple facets and approaches, encompassing diverse techniques under a variety of names, in different business, science, and social science domaains."

We all know where the data would have came from so please, do not make yourself Public in the World's DNA data bases going forward. I am sure we can do without it.

MJost

jonesge
09-18-2013, 05:37 PM
Second, I will look for a place to open a thread on project data privacy. That has been discussed on multiple forums but if someone wants to discuss it lets get it in the right category of this forum.

OK Mike go for it and open up a thread on data privacy / data mining / data scraping of DNA records. And, explain your system of contacting persons who let their DNA records be shown at FTDNA ... then had a change of heart and made their data non-public. How do you, Robert, Mark and other DNA Excellers think you can continue to use their data in "your" Excel data hosted at Yahoo?

TigerMW
09-18-2013, 07:46 PM
I've started this up as there are concerns about this and this is general to a number of projects. It also pertains to mt DNA projects but I didn't see a general/other category for both.

Here is the original portion of another posting that kicked this off. I've excerpted these two contiguous paragraphs verbatim and edited them out of the original post since they were off-topic. I did not add or change any highlighting/underlining, etc. This was originally a response to Robert Casey under a thread I created so I'm referenced to as well.


... It seems from your Post that you and Mike W view yourself as "Standard Setters" and I doubt neither of you have the expressed written and formal consent from FTDNA nor FTDNA paying participants to datamine / datascrape the data you are harvesting - analyzing - reposting.

How does one remove themselves BOTH from FTDNA and Your and Mike's unauthorized data? I know how it's done at FTDNA ... so what is your and Mike's process? As FTDNA Project Admins ... do you think you may be taken to task on this? Do you think that Yahoo knows the real scoop on your cavalier antics and how they breach both personal privacies & familial privacies?
...

MJost
09-18-2013, 07:51 PM
>persons who let their DNA records be shown at FTDNA ... then had a change of heart and made their data non-public. How do you, Robert, Mark and other DNA Excellers think you can continue to use their data in "your" Excel data hosted at Yahoo

Geewiz, you have already taken the public fork in the road and its no turning back. I am sorry you have felt neglected and even slighted in the past in a few other venues concerning your L371 surname heritage and your insistant comments, and now wish to step out of the lime light, but now give us your complete data so we can do the best job possible, such as your bank account number, your central government ID number, your first born, credit card numbers, home address, keys to your vehicle, etc.

I am out.

MJost

RobertCasey
09-18-2013, 11:02 PM
OK Mike go for it and open up a thread on data privacy / data mining / data scraping of DNA records. And, explain your system of contacting persons who let their DNA records be shown at FTDNA ... then had a change of heart and made their data non-public. How do you, Robert, Mark and other DNA Excellers think you can continue to use their data in "your" Excel data hosted at Yahoo?

There are several legally binding releases that made along the way:

1) When you sent your kit into FTDNA, you have to sign a release to make your results available to those who match other submissions:

http://www.familytreedna.com/forms/FTDNA-release-form.pdf

2) When you join any FTDNA project, you agree to let your information be displayed in the manner established by that project administrator (which can be changed at any time).
Any and all your genetic data (as well as genealogical data entered) could be be posted on web sites (FTDNA and others) and then becomes public domain data. Once your
information has been released to public domain - that is permanent release which can not be rescinded.

However, you can at a later point in time, make your data private which means that your genetic data will no longer be included in future FTDNA reports. However, anyone
who has acquired your genetic data has no obligation to remove any data that has been published to the public domain. As a courtesy, most FTDNA admins will remove
any data upon request. However, WFN and custom reports include copies of FTDNA reports which could take time to update. FTDNA reports are immediately updated
and since most people use these reports regularly, data that is taken private usually goes away in a short time frame.

http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=6#395

David
09-19-2013, 12:36 AM
Anyone else on here old enough to remember when the monolithic Ma Bell went after companies doing knock-off phone books? Lost soundly. Can't copyright data...

MJost
09-19-2013, 02:36 AM
Yes, there was U.S. Supreme Court case FEIST PUBLICATIONS, INC. v. RURAL TEL. SERVICE CO., 499 U.S. 340 (1991) that really buried the copyright status olf data.

MJost

TigerMW
09-19-2013, 04:55 AM
I agree that peoples' data should not be added to projects or redisplayed without their permission, that gives the whole community a bad name. As for how best to spend *your* money everyone has to weigh that up based on what they are trying to find out and how advanced discoveries are in their genetic neck of the woods. But FullG is fundamentally different from just buying more STRs because the SNPs they find are effectively guaranteed to make people identical by descent whereas the additional Y37 tests you mention aren't. Being a bit of a SNP purist then I find the idea of FullG very tempting and I wouldn't call STRs a tool to 'define some boundaries' unless your circumstances are such that you can prove an IBD local tree. I take your point about your SNP being quite a recent one (I'm not clear just how young it is, sorry) but results so far indicate about 1 new SNP every 1-2 generations so you can do the maths yourself. That's a typical rate so YMMV.

As for your data, if it is gone from all public projects and ysearch etc then it isn't in the public domain and anyone displaying it is breaching your data privacy. I would suggest you write formally to anyone doing this and if they don't delete it complain to their ISP. If the project they are displaying it in has some association with FTDNA then copy in the directors too.

MacUalraig

Just as an FYI. I only collect data from from clearly public web pages like the FTDNA public project screens and Ysearch. I also do not use any automated programs or robots to collect data.

Anyone who asks to be removed from any data I maintain is removed. I don't think it is a big deal though as I can only remember that happening once.... about a year ago or so and that fellow might even be involved in this thread. At the time, I actually went through an extra gyration of purging files on the yahoo group folders inserted by others just as a courtesy to the fellow, although others had to recreate network diagrams and the like so I don't think the purging was universally appreciated. I think the fellow forgot to delete his Ysearch ID though, but I certainly wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole...

Still, when someone makes data public, I don't know how one gets it back. It's kind of like spilt milk or letting the cat out of the bag. Just checked for grins.... whoops, if it is the same fellow, the Ysearch record is still there even today. It really is hard to get the cat back in the bag. I think I'll save another screen print file for proof as well. Gees, its even easy to find his FTDNA kit # through internet searches.

It won't do any good to contact ISPs or other corporate entities in these cases, from what I can see.

Scarlet Ibis
09-19-2013, 04:57 AM
your bank account number, your central government ID number, your first born, credit card numbers, home address, keys to your vehicle

Mike (Mod.) ... the above intimidating type of comments relating for a plan of nefarious identity theft is over the top and a severe and unwarranted violation of my personal privacy. Plus, what he is threatening is out and out illegal.

Remove those comments by Mark and consider banning him permanently for making such illegal threats.

Here's this forum rules: 2.) Administrators should only be contacted with questions or complaints if an issue is beyond the scope of forum moderators to satisfactorily address, or if a situation is serious enough (e.g., threats, violation of privacy) to warrant administrator involvement.

It wasn't a threat, a "plan of nefarious identity theft," or anything of the sort. It was a sarcastic remark in response to your aggression. And there is nothing illegal happening here. But you know that.

Tone it down, and consider this a warning.

jonesge
09-19-2013, 05:40 AM
Please, I ask that you remove Mark Josts remarks which I clearly said were threatening to my privacy. Or perhaps, Mark Jost can remove those remarks himself. Thanks

ilmari
09-19-2013, 05:46 AM
jonesge, your silly sideline data says it all, you're a troll.

Case in point:
============
jonesge

Junior Member

Posts
7
Sex
Omitted
Location
Not near the Robert Casey / Mike W / Mark Jost fan club.
Ethnicity
Neolithic Savage
Nationality
Quite Well Mixed
===========
There is absolutely nothing that M Jost wrote that is anywhere near threatening to your privacy or anyone else's, you're the one that has gone down the wrong path, I suggest you stand down.

MikeWhalen
09-19-2013, 11:45 AM
684

wonder what the winning wager would be for the over/under on this trolls age? 15 sound right?


jonesge, your silly sideline data says it all, you're a troll.

Case in point:
============
jonesge

Junior Member

Posts
7
Sex
Omitted
Location
Not near the Robert Casey / Mike W / Mark Jost fan club.
Ethnicity
Neolithic Savage
Nationality
Quite Well Mixed
===========
There is absolutely nothing that M Jost wrote that is anywhere near threatening to your privacy or anyone else's, you're the one that has gone down the wrong path, I suggest you stand down.