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Scott
02-06-2018, 12:18 AM
My Dad (whose known ancestry is entirely Western European) received the following AncestryDNA Results:

Great Britain - 44% (16-71)
Scandinavian - 16% (0-33)
Ireland/Scotland/Wales - 15% (3-27)
Iberian Peninsula - 15% (6-24)
Caucasus - 5% (<1-9)
Europe West - 3% (0-15)
Finland/Northwest Russia - <1% (0-3)
European Jewish - <1% (0-2)

A Caucasus result is hardly unusual for a person of primarily European ancestry. However, his score stood out to me since Europeans with Caucasus results above 1 or 2% tend to receive higher percentages for nearby regions. When transferred to FTDNA myOrigins he was 2% Ashkenazi Jewish but his Caucasus Result became South Asian. When transferred to DNA.Land he became 100% European with a surprising 10% Balkan.

Two questions:
1. Could his percentage being interpreted as Caucasus, then South Asian, then Balkan indicate a possible Roma connection?
2. Could the above Caucasus?/Balkan?/South Asian? result be connected to the small Ashkenazi Jewish percentage he has received?

msmarjoribanks
02-06-2018, 01:17 AM
Could it? Maybe. But there are other explanations too.

The Balkan on DNA.Land probably is just reflecting the same slightly higher than expected Caucasian component that the Ancestry result is.

If you look at the spreadsheet for Eurogenes K13 at Gedmatch (showing how their average population pools score), you can see that British Isles get around 4-5% West Asian, Germans get more like 6%, Austrians get 7%, Italians get higher, Eastern Europeans generally get higher, Jewish populations tend to get higher. Apparently your father is scoring higher than what they pegged the rest of his genealogy to, but it could mean he's just a bit of an outlier for those populations (it's not that significant a difference), or it could mean that he has some ancestry that would have higher Western Asian than the other populations that you don't yet know about.

Have you done any of the Gedmatch calculators?

Mine is a bit higher than average for West Asian too -- I only get 2% on Ancestry, but it's enough for FTDNA to find 14% Eastern Europe even though my most Eastern known (or likely) ancestry is some German and it's less than 14%. But what it's reflecting is that Eurogenes K13 gives me about 7% West Asian, 2% South Asian, and 5% Eastern Med. The oracles include this as follows:

1 Austrian + Danish + Irish + West_German @ 1.687760
2 Danish + Irish + Irish + Serbian @ 1.714830
3 Hungarian + Irish + Irish + West_German @ 1.740776
4 Hungarian + Irish + West_German + West_Scottish @ 1.773570
5 Danish + Irish + Serbian + West_Scottish @ 1.795156

So on.

I think that kind of think can have a lot of causes, but some Ashkenazi admixture would be one (I don't think it's that for me, I never get any Ashkenazi matches and don't score high on JTest). I don't know much about Roma, but it wouldn't surprise me (South Asian seems more significant). There are ways to check for that specifically that I don't know but others here do.

Scott
02-06-2018, 02:12 AM
I should have noted his Gedmatch results in my original post. His 4 Population approximations on Eurogenes consist entirely of Western European groups + North Italy (He has Swiss ancestry). His 4 population approximations on puntDNAL include Tatar, Serbian, Mordovian, Macedonian, Croatian, Chechen, Lithuanian, Turkish, Albanian, and Kurdish. Below is applicable GedMatch info from Eurogenes:

Eurogenes K13: 8.53 West Asian
Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15: 9.01 West Asian
Eurogenes JTest: 7.72 West Asian, 4.21 Ashkenazi
Eurogenes EUTest: 8.41 West Asian
Eurogenes K36: 8.25 North Caucasian, 5.57 East Balkan, 0.83 West Caucasian

Mixed Mode Results:

K13

1 93.4% Southwest_English + 6.6% Abhkasian @ 2.32
2 92.4% Southwest_English + 7.6% Ossetian @ 2.34
3 93.1% Southwest_English + 6.9% Georgian @ 2.37
4 93% Southwest_English + 7% Kurdish @ 2.5
5 92.4% Southwest_English + 7.6% Balkar @ 2.54
6 92.2% Southwest_English + 7.8% Turkmen @ 2.56
7 92.7% Southwest_English + 7.3% North_Ossetian @ 2.57
8 92.6% Southwest_English + 7.4% Adygei @ 2.58
9 92.2% Southwest_English + 7.8% Kumyk @ 2.61
10 92.6% Southwest_English + 7.4% Azeri @ 2.61
11 93.3% Southwest_English + 6.7% Armenian @ 2.61
12 92% Southwest_English + 8% Tabassaran @ 2.63
13 92.3% Southwest_English + 7.7% Lezgin @ 2.65
14 93.9% Southwest_English + 6.1% Makrani @ 2.67
15 92.3% Southwest_English + 7.7% Chechen @ 2.68
16 93.2% Southwest_English + 6.8% Iranian @ 2.68
17 92.4% Southwest_English + 7.6% Kabardin @ 2.69
18 94.2% Southwest_English + 5.8% Brahui @ 2.73
19 92.3% Southwest_English + 7.7% Turkish @ 2.74
20 94.1% Southwest_English + 5.9% Balochi @ 2.76


EUTest V2 K15:

1 77.8% North_German + 22.2% French_Basque @ 5.66
2 91.1% Southeast_English + 8.9% North_Ossetian @ 5.78
3 91.2% Southeast_English + 8.8% Ossetian @ 5.84
4 89.8% Irish + 10.2% Ossetian @ 5.86
5 90.9% Southeast_English + 9.1% Balkar @ 5.88
6 90% Irish + 10% North_Ossetian @ 5.9
7 89.5% Irish + 10.5% Balkar @ 5.9
8 91.4% Southwest_English + 8.6% North_Ossetian @ 5.91
9 91.2% Irish + 8.8% Abhkasian @ 5.92
10 90.9% Southeast_English + 9.1% Kabardin @ 5.92
11 92.5% Southeast_English + 7.5% Abhkasian @ 5.94
12 91.3% Southeast_English + 8.7% Adygei @ 5.96
13 90.9% Southeast_English + 9.1% Chechen @ 5.96
14 89.5% Irish + 10.5% Kabardin @ 6
15 77.4% Irish + 22.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.01
16 90.9% Irish + 9.1% Georgian @ 6.01
17 91.6% Southwest_English + 8.4% Ossetian @ 6.02
18 90% Irish + 10% Adygei @ 6.03
19 80.8% Irish + 19.2% French_Basque @ 6.03
20 92.3% Southeast_English + 7.7% Georgian @ 6.04


JTest

1 85.1% IE + 14.9% Tuscan @ 3.95
2 82.4% IE + 17.6% North_Italian @ 3.97
3 93.2% Cornish + 6.8% GE @ 3.99
4 89% IE + 11% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.05
5 92.4% IE + 7.6% Armenian @ 4.07
6 79.9% IE + 20.1% ES @ 4.16
7 90.7% IE + 9.3% AJ @ 4.17
8 92.4% Cornish + 7.6% Lezgin @ 4.18
9 90% IE + 10% GR @ 4.22
10 93.1% IE + 6.9% GE @ 4.23
11 91.6% IE + 8.4% TR @ 4.24
12 80.9% IE + 19.1% PT @ 4.3
13 82% Scottish + 18% Tuscan @ 4.31
14 70.2% IE + 29.8% FR @ 4.33
15 78.9% Scottish + 21.1% North_Italian @ 4.35
16 93.2% IE + 6.8% Assyrian @ 4.38
17 92.9% IE + 7.1% Sardinian @ 4.41
18 90.4% Scottish + 9.6% Sardinian @ 4.44
19 90.6% Scottish + 9.4% Armenian @ 4.47
20 93.6% IE + 6.4% Mandean @ 4.5


EUTest

1 84.6% IE + 15.4% Tuscan @ 3.6
2 91.9% IE + 8.1% Armenian @ 3.65
3 81.8% IE + 18.2% North_Italian @ 3.66
4 88.7% IE + 11.3% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 3.77
5 91.1% IE + 8.9% TR @ 3.83
6 89.4% IE + 10.6% GR @ 3.83
7 93.1% Cornish + 6.9% GE @ 3.89
8 92.7% IE + 7.3% GE @ 3.9
9 92.7% IE + 7.3% Assyrian @ 3.99
10 81.4% Scottish + 18.6% Tuscan @ 4.05
11 80.3% IE + 19.7% ES @ 4.06
12 92.1% Cornish + 7.9% Lezgin @ 4.09
13 78.2% Scottish + 21.8% North_Italian @ 4.12
14 93.2% IE + 6.8% Mandean @ 4.17
15 89.5% IE + 10.5% AJ @ 4.17
16 81.1% IE + 18.9% PT @ 4.2
17 90.2% Scottish + 9.8% Armenian @ 4.21
18 92.7% IE + 7.3% Kurdish @ 4.21
19 70.3% IE + 29.7% FR @ 4.22
20 92.8% IE + 7.2% Sardinian @ 4.23

fostert
02-06-2018, 03:34 PM
I too have a mysterious 6% Caucasus, yet my paper trail is 100% European. At first I assumed it was from my Ukrainian quarter, from the Ottoman Empire invasions of Ukraine where my grandmother is from. Being a scientist myself however, I had a hard look at the whitepapers on these methods used to assign ethnicity. I have been forced to conclude that any ethnic component less than about 5% is baseless and to be ignored, which is now what I do with my Caucasus component. The best these calculators can do is tell you what continent you are from. As well I think that higher Signal/noise assignments above 10% are probably correct too. The uncertainties in the reference populations make more specific assignments with low signal/noise like 5% problematic. Think about it: how can a reference population be free of even the usual 2% or more NPE rate?

Also strange is that I have had both my parents tested, and they show only a 1-2% Caucasus component. It shouldn't be possible for their child to end up as 6%.

msmarjoribanks
02-06-2018, 08:14 PM
Also strange is that I have had both my parents tested, and they show only a 1-2% Caucasus component. It shouldn't be possible for their child to end up as 6%.

I think this is because the components end up split up differently. Your parents may have gotten other results that would account for the "West Asian" (or whatever) component (which is in European populations, the amount just varies).

fostert
02-06-2018, 09:20 PM
I think this is because the components end up split up differently. Your parents may have gotten other results that would account for the "West Asian" (or whatever) component (which is in European populations, the amount just varies).

My Caucasus must be coming from a European component because Ancestry's population region boundaries for "Caucasus" and for "Middle Eastern" are nearly identical (they overlap nearly atop each other), and I have 0% ME.

Scott
02-06-2018, 10:33 PM
I think that, in many cases, a Caucasus result for a European is due to a European component. I know Ancestry lists Romania and Bulgaria as places where that result is also found. A fair number of my top matches on Ancestry have a small Caucasus percentage but very few of them have Middle Eastern. My Dad's case is a little odd because he is not assigned any nearby regions with the exception of <1% European Jewish. His known ancestry is entirely Western European and the bulk of his results reflect that.

The Non-European results that my Mom and I receive are quite consistent (My Mom consistently receives a small Native American percentage and I consistently receive a small Native American percentage and a small South Asian percentage). Obviously my Dad's Non-European results have not been so consistent (I forgot to mention that MyHeritage assigned him a bizarre 1.2% Central American and his DNA.Land results included 1.2% Unassigned). Oh the joys of small percentages....

greerpalmer
02-07-2018, 12:03 AM
I would say most likely this is Caucasus ancestry is from recombination of multiple grandparents, not a more recent ancestor, and is likely originated from the Romania-Ukraine part of Europe which is not all too uncommon in German genetics. That'd be my guess. Ancestry's Eastern European and Balkan groups both have a good chunk of the population with Caucasus. I'm no anthropologist but many migrations came out of the Caucasus region and went north into Russia, then East and South.

Angriff
02-10-2018, 06:54 PM
Could potentially be Volga German, especially in German ancestry in an American.