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soulblighter
02-09-2018, 09:49 PM
2134921350
There appears to be an animal like a Giraffe being hunted down by stone age hunters on horseback at Bhimbetka in Central India.
It has been described earlier, in scientific literature (http://www.jstor.org/stable/42931498?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) but there is no consensus
Some people think it is a wild horse, while others think it is a deer.
THe proportions of the other horses in the picture seem appropriate so I can't see the prey animal being a horse.
Central India is presently thickly forested and not savanna (preferred habitat of a wild horse) nor a savanna with thorny shurubs (preffered by girraffe).
Was there some point in history when the climate in central india was more suited to a savanna and if so when?

P.S: There has been claim that the horse paintings are after the Indo Aryans reached central India from the steppe well after the harappan times, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever if one takes a look at the images.

Kale
02-10-2018, 04:02 AM
Stone age? They have swords.

Varun R
02-10-2018, 04:36 AM
Stone age? They have swords.

Those look like spears to me...

Kale
02-10-2018, 05:20 AM
Those look like spears to me...

The two on the right absolutely, but the two on the left lack the thicker tip and have no 'back-end'. You hold a spear from the middle, not the far back.

soulblighter
02-10-2018, 05:30 AM
Stone age? They have swords.

Not in those, i don't think . The ones with swords are from the historical/medieval period in other caves and are very distinctively sword looking.
I would guess the shorter weapons may be clubs or mace of some kind, also quite popular in Indian mythology(the name of the place is coincidentally named after a mythical mace wielder)but who knows. A Giraffe makes even less sense if it is from the iron age historical period.

Nibelung
02-10-2018, 05:45 AM
War Giraffe

Kale
02-10-2018, 08:39 AM
Not in those, i don't think . The ones with swords are from the historical/medieval period in other caves and are very distinctively sword looking.
I would guess the shorter weapons may be clubs or mace of some kind, also quite popular in Indian mythology(the name of the place is coincidentally named after a mythical mace wielder)but who knows. A Giraffe makes even less sense if it is from the iron age historical period.

Club or mace sure. Still, the real revelation would be pushing horse-riding back to the stone age in India, not a lost giraffe.

Teutonic
02-10-2018, 11:47 PM
Possible. Many extinct Giraffids. Samotherium (Eurasia), Sivatherium (Okapi-like, India), Shansitherium (China), etc.

soulblighter
02-11-2018, 09:07 PM
Possible. Many extinct Giraffids. Samotherium (Eurasia), Sivatherium (Okapi-like, India), Shansitherium (China), etc.

After a quick search, I found this article (http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2009/dec/01/rock-paintings-show-species-that-roamed-india-109073.html) from 2009 that posits the prevalence of Sivatherium as late as 8000 ybp in that same general region, so this seems like very much a possibility!

Baltimore1937
02-12-2018, 02:33 PM
Weren't there Giraffes in Arabia and that region in prehistoric times? If so, they could've spread to India back then. The whole antelope-Bovid cloven-hoof group spread from Asia to Africa way back when. They did not originate in Africa.

razyn
02-12-2018, 03:43 PM
If anybody wants to refresh his or her memory on how to hunt a giraffe with simple equipment, there's film. These guys didn't have horses, and the chase lasted several days while the poison took effect. I saw this in grad school (Anthropology) 40 years ago, and it wasn't fresh then. It also wasn't digital, in the 1970s they still used a movie projector. https://archive.org/details/huntersfilmpart1

Mingle
05-12-2018, 04:40 PM
Weren't there Giraffes in Arabia and that region in prehistoric times? If so, they could've spread to India back then. The whole antelope-Bovid cloven-hoof group spread from Asia to Africa way back when. They did not originate in Africa.

Two giraffe species (meaning proper giraffes) known as Giraffa priscilla and Giraffa sivalensis were found in the Siwalik Hills region of Pakistan and Western India.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7ed0ffd4275976d4dbf31142fe6e603e

However, these species became extinct in South Asia before the arrival of modern day humans, so the the rock painting is most likely in reference to sivatherium.

Censored
07-31-2018, 08:07 PM
If this creature is being hunted by men on horseback, then how can that creature be sivatherium? The horse was only domesticated in the Eurastian steppes in 3500 BC by which time it would have already been extinct. And yes, I did read somewhere about the geography of India being more suited to giraffids.

parasar
08-01-2018, 05:22 PM
If this creature is being hunted by men on horseback, then how can that creature be sivatherium? The horse was only domesticated in the Eurastian steppes in 3500 BC by which time it would have already been extinct. And yes, I did read somewhere about the geography of India being more suited to giraffids.

A few possibilities:
Sivatherium existed until much later.
The painting are not that old and the sivatherium is imagined
Horses of the Siwalik type were present until the Late Pleistocene/Mesolithic period or perhaps there were Przewalski's* horses in the region.

*Przewalski's were thought to be wild but are actually descended of the first domesticated horses - the Botai (the current domesticated horses have a different non-Botai origin.)
"based on DNA results, Botai horses didn’t give rise to today's modern domesticated horses—they gave rise to the Przewalski horses ... these early domestic horses gave birth to now feral Przewalski's"
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/02/przewalski-wild-horses-botai-kazakhstan-spd/
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2018/02/21/science.aao3297/tab-pdf

And supposedly the Przewalski's have the same number of ribs - 34 - as the Arabian and the Rg Vedic horse!
There also was a report of a birdled domesticated horse in Arabia from 7000 BC. http://blogs.nature.com/houseofwisdom/2011/09/horses_domesticated_in_saudi_a.html

Censored
08-01-2018, 07:58 PM
A few possibilities:
Sivatherium existed until much later.
The painting are not that old and the sivatherium is imagined
Horses of the Siwalik type were present until the Late Pleistocene/Mesolithic period or perhaps there were Przewalski's* horses in the region.

*Przewalski's were thought to be wild but are actually descended of the first domesticated horses - the Botai (the current domesticated horses have a different non-Botai origin.)
"based on DNA results, Botai horses didn’t give rise to today's modern domesticated horses—they gave rise to the Przewalski horses ... these early domestic horses gave birth to now feral Przewalski's"
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/02/przewalski-wild-horses-botai-kazakhstan-spd/
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2018/02/21/science.aao3297/tab-pdf

And supposedly the Przewalski's have the same number of ribs - 34 - as the Arabian and the Rg Vedic horse!
There also was a report of a birdled domesticated horse in Arabia from 7000 BC. http://blogs.nature.com/houseofwisdom/2011/09/horses_domesticated_in_saudi_a.html

Not sure I understood-are you saying that the animal being hunted is a type of wild horse? I’d say it’s proportion and size make it clearly distinct from a horse considering there are horses being ridden in the same drawing. If sivatherium has managed to survive by the time steppe people arrived in that part of India then I’d assume there’s be some kind of written accounts of giraffe like animals from the time period. I hope to god it’s true though. The idea of Indo-Aryans encountering and hunting down giant giraffes is really cool.

Censored
08-01-2018, 08:16 PM
Check it out here are biomes in Asia during the last ice age. India was mainly grassland/Savannah.
24937

Some say giraffes went extinct as a result of it being converted to forest.

soulblighter
08-09-2018, 05:58 PM
Check it out here are biomes in Asia during the last ice age. India was mainly grassland/Savannah.
24937

Some say giraffes went extinct as a result of it being converted to forest.

Interesting... I don't know how accurate the map is, but if true and India was majority grassland that then became wooded, then it was ideal for not only the Giraffe but also some form of Horse.

parasar
08-09-2018, 08:36 PM
Interesting... I don't know how accurate the map is, but if true and India was majority grassland that then became wooded, then it was ideal for not only the Giraffe but also some form of Horse.

I think it is accurate.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.180.4749&rep=rep1&type=pdf