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Farhanum
02-16-2018, 11:23 AM
Hi Anthrogenica people! :)

I recently did an AncestryDNA test which showed to be 98% South Asian, so I decided to upload my test on GedMatch and see what harrapans :P
Only problem is I don't know what to make of it! Can anyone help me analyse this and share what origins they find? My Family always said we were mughals (surname is Mirza) but I think over time people change their surnames and titles for an easier life! Grandparents originate from Jelum and Rawalpindi Pakistan. I'd like to know more as I'm the only one in the family who's beard becomes ginger as it grows! :hail:

Here is my full breakdown:
Kit A901897

HarappaWorld Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 44.09
2 S-Indian 31.07
3 Caucasian 13.31
4 NE-Euro 7.13
5 Siberian 2.23
6 American 0.86
7 Beringian 0.84
8 SW-Asian 0.48

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi-arain (xing) 4.14
2 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 5.14
3 sindhi (hgdp) 5.54
4 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 5.74
5 punjabi (harappa) 6.04
6 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 6.14
7 sindhi (harappa) 6.18
8 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 6.35
9 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 6.4
10 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 6.57
11 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.9
12 kashmiri (harappa) 7.44
13 bhatia (harappa) 7.5
14 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 7.72
15 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 8.8
16 pathan (hgdp) 8.88
17 kalash (hgdp) 10.27
18 up-muslim (harappa) 10.66
19 burusho (hgdp) 10.92
20 nepalese-a (xing) 11.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.3% kalash (hgdp) + 29.7% gujarati-a (1000genomes) 1.82
2 71.6% kalash (hgdp) + 28.4% gujarati-patel (harappa) 1.9
3 64.9% kalash (hgdp) + 35.1% kerala-nair (harappa) 2.65
4 72.7% kalash (hgdp) + 27.3% velama (metspalu) 2.79
5 71.1% kalash (hgdp) + 28.9% ap-reddy (harappa) 2.87
6 63.3% kalash (hgdp) + 36.7% tn-brahmin (xing) 3.09
7 63% kalash (hgdp) + 37% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) 3.16
8 59.9% kalash (hgdp) + 40.1% gujarati-b (hapmap) 3.18
9 64.6% kalash (hgdp) + 35.4% iyer-brahmin (harappa) 3.26
10 53% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 47% sindhi (hgdp) 3.28
11 62.9% kalash (hgdp) + 37.1% gujarati (harappa) 3.29
12 96.1% punjabi-arain (xing) + 3.9% abhkasian (yunusbayev) 3.3
13 96.3% punjabi-arain (xing) + 3.7% georgian (behar) 3.31
14 68.1% kalash (hgdp) + 31.9% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 3.33
15 62.2% kalash (hgdp) + 37.8% meghawal (reich) 3.34
16 65.3% kalash (hgdp) + 34.7% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) 3.36
17 86% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 14% brahui (hgdp) 3.41
18 80.6% punjabi-arain (xing) + 19.4% kalash (hgdp) 3.41
19 95.9% punjabi-arain (xing) + 4.1% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) 3.44
20 75.2% kalash (hgdp) + 24.8% tamil-vellalar (harappa) 3.44

Dodecad V3 Admixture Proportions
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 44.90
2 West_Asian 26.49
3 West_European 10.04
4 East_European 5.32
5 Mediterranean 5.28
6 Northeast_Asian 3.58
7 Southwest_Asian 2.13
8 Southeast_Asian 2.01


Finished reading population data. 227 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Pakistani_Xing 5.142318
2 Sindhi_HGDP 5.415132
3 Kashmiri_Pandit_Reich 6.326868
4 Pathan_HGDP 7.184845
5 Burusho_HGDP 8.116156
6 Bnei_Menashe_Jews_Behar 14.662693
7 Balochi_HGDP 15.162167
8 Meghawal_Reich 15.810693
9 Cochin_Jews_Behar 16.231773
10 Brahui_HGDP 16.407778
11 Vaish_Reich 17.000095
12 Kalash_HGDP 18.400784
13 TN_Brahmin_Xing 18.918470
14 AP_Brahmin_Xing 20.222860
15 Srivastava_Reich 20.340635
16 Makrani_HGDP 20.448738
17 Indian_Dodecad 22.038725
18 Velama_Reich 23.525921
19 Nepalese_Xing 25.832634
20 Tharu_Reich 25.944473

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cochin_Jews_Behar +50% Kalash_HGDP 4.310149


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% INS_SGVP +25% Lezgins_Behar +25% Sindhi_HGDP 3.006063


Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Velama_Reich 1.875784
2 Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Sindhi_HGDP + Meghawal_Reich 1.876807
3 Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Pakistani_Xing + Meghawal_Reich 1.891655
4 Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Pakistani_Xing + TN_Brahmin_Xing 1.938731
5 Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + TN_Brahmin_Xing 2.035690
6 Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Sindhi_HGDP + TN_Brahmin_Xing 2.050202
7 Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + TN_Brahmin_Xing + Kashmiri_Pandit_Reich 2.071299
8 Adygei_HGDP + GIH_HapMap + Indian_Dodecad + Sindhi_HGDP 2.131046
9 Adygei_HGDP + Irula_Xing + Pakistani_Xing + Pakistani_Xing 2.132307
10 INS_SGVP + Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP 2.149452
11 Burusho_HGDP + Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + TN_Brahmin_Xing 2.168283
12 Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + AP_Brahmin_Xing 2.191803
13 Adygei_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Irula_Xing + Meghawal_Reich 2.197429
14 Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + AP_Brahmin_Xing + Pakistani_Xing 2.238086
15 Indian_Dodecad + Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP 2.241085
16 Adygei_HGDP + Sindhi_HGDP + Irula_Xing + Pakistani_Xing 2.243843
17 Adygei_HGDP + GIH_HapMap + Indian_Dodecad + Pakistani_Xing 2.261256
18 Adygei_HGDP + GIH_HapMap + GIH_HapMap + Pathan_HGDP 2.266291
19 Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + Kashmiri_Pandit_Reich + Meghawal_Reich 2.269587
20 Kalash_HGDP + Pathan_HGDP + AP_Brahmin_Xing + Kashmiri_Pandit_Reich 2.276617

MDLP World-22 4-Ancestors Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West-Asian 41.61
2 Indian 32.48
3 Indo-Iranian 7.22
4 North-East-European 5.77
5 Samoedic 2.67
6 North-European-Mesolithic 2.64
7 North-Siberean 1.38
8 Paleo-Siberian 1.28
9 Indo-Tibetan 1.26
10 Mesoamerican 1.19


Finished reading population data. 276 populations found.
22 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Pathan_derived 6.362753
2 Sindhi_derived 7.394692
3 Burusho_derived 8.310041
4 Balochi_derived 11.045626
5 Pashtun_derived 15.110307
6 Brahui_derived 16.290127
7 Makrani_derived 17.115271
8 Jew_India_derived 19.754023
9 Parsi_derived 21.024338
10 Tadjik_derived 25.136383
11 Hindu_derived 30.522547
12 Turkmen_derived 32.250404
13 Roma_derived 35.527775
14 Iranian_derived 36.315712
15 Azeri_derived 37.759243
16 Uzbek_derived 38.276928
17 Kumyk_derived 38.362045
18 Lezgin_derived 38.867374
19 Tabassaran_derived 38.894886
20 Lak_derived 39.004337

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Pathan_derived +50% Sindhi_derived 3.815895


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Pathan_derived +25% Sindhi_derived +25% Sindhi_derived 3.815895


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Brahui_derived + Hindu_derived + Pashtun_derived + Pathan_derived 3.620889
2 Pathan_derived + Pathan_derived + Sindhi_derived + Sindhi_derived 3.815895
3 Balochi_derived + Hindu_derived + Pashtun_derived + Pathan_derived 3.945989
4 Balochi_derived + Balochi_derived + Hindu_derived + Pashtun_derived 3.992287
5 Brahui_derived + Hindu_derived + Pashtun_derived + Sindhi_derived 4.037878
6 Brahui_derived + Hindu_derived + Pathan_derived + Pathan_derived 4.105013
7 Brahui_derived + Burusho_derived + Hindu_derived + Pashtun_derived 4.108976
8 Burusho_derived + Pathan_derived + Sindhi_derived + Sindhi_derived 4.265887
9 Balochi_derived + Brahui_derived + Hindu_derived + Pashtun_derived 4.300649
10 Balochi_derived + Brahui_derived + Hindu_derived + Pathan_derived 4.331851
11 Burusho_derived + Pathan_derived + Pathan_derived + Sindhi_derived 4.380636
12 Pathan_derived + Pathan_derived + Pathan_derived + Sindhi_derived 4.385514
13 Balochi_derived + Hindu_derived + Pashtun_derived + Pashtun_derived 4.440380
14 Balochi_derived + Burusho_derived + Pathan_derived + Sindhi_derived 4.494859
15 Brahui_derived + Brahui_derived + Hindu_derived + Pathan_derived 4.503561
16 Hindu_derived + Makrani_derived + Pashtun_derived + Pathan_derived 4.543916
17 Brahui_derived + Brahui_derived + Burusho_derived + Hindu_derived 4.557293
18 Balochi_derived + Balochi_derived + Hindu_derived + Pathan_derived 4.629110
19 Balochi_derived + Hindu_derived + Pashtun_derived + Sindhi_derived 4.693614
20 Brahui_derived + Hindu_derived + Sindhi_derived + Tadjik_derived 4.700836


Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 49.20
2 West_Asian 30.02
3 Eastern_Euro 11.94
4 North_Sea 3.98
5 East_Med 2.94
6 Siberian 1.11


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sindhi 6.799188
2 Punjabi_Jat 8.727810
3 Pathan 9.405046
4 Burusho 12.683456
5 Kalash 13.592389
6 Gujarati 17.331844
7 Brahmin_UP 18.215479
8 Kshatriya 19.362396
9 Balochi 21.694183
10 Brahui 21.714964
11 Afghan_Pashtun 23.388216
12 Bangladeshi 24.284184
13 Makrani 25.836538
14 Dharkar 28.303049
15 Kanjar 29.289885
16 Velamas 31.337103
17 Tadjik 32.307220
18 Afghan_Uzbeki 32.453598
19 Afghan_Tadjik 32.650112
20 Kurumba 32.710121

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Gujarati +50% Kalash 5.237959


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Kalash +25% Kalash +25% Piramalai 4.141026


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Kalash + Kalash + Kalash + Piramalai 4.141026
2 Kalash + Kalash + Kalash + Velamas 4.329060
3 Kalash + Kalash + Kalash + Kurumba 4.419629
4 Kalash + Kalash + Sindhi + Velamas 4.486817
5 Kalash + Kalash + Pathan + Velamas 4.549255
6 Kalash + Kalash + Kurumba + Sindhi 4.705638
7 Burusho + Kalash + Kalash + Velamas 4.712337
8 Kalash + Kalash + Kurumba + Pathan 4.746839
9 Dusadh + Kalash + Kalash + Kalash 4.779513
10 Kalash + Kalash + Kalash + Sakilli 4.803799
11 Kalash + Kalash + Kanjar + Sindhi 4.869840
12 Chamar + Kalash + Kalash + Kalash 4.870257
13 Kalash + Kalash + Pathan + Piramalai 4.895856
14 Gujarati + Kalash + Kalash + Sindhi 4.956403
15 Kalash + Kalash + Punjabi_Jat + Velamas 4.976433
16 Burusho + Kalash + Kalash + Kurumba 5.003100
17 Kalash + Kalash + Kalash + North_Kannadi 5.021422
18 Dharkar + Kalash + Kalash + Sindhi 5.039842
19 Burusho + Kalash + Kalash + Piramalai 5.045907
20 Kalash + Kalash + Kalash + Kol 5.069981

Ancient Eurasia K6 4-Ancestors Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 43.16
2 Natufian 29.43
3 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 15.70
4 East_Asian 9.12
5 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 2.60


Finished reading population data. 136 populations found.
6 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Punjabi 4.188320
2 Pathan 4.453994
3 Kalash 5.422011
4 Sindhi 5.507969
5 GujaratiA 6.331976
6 Burusho 7.911849
7 GujaratiB 7.941724
8 Kurd_SE 8.909945
9 Pashtun_Afghan 9.655630
10 Balochi 10.954196
11 Brahui 11.789017
12 GujaratiC 13.353939
13 Makrani 13.868005
14 GujaratiD 15.281570
15 Baloch_Iranian 15.565904
16 Tajik 16.849365
17 Punjabi_PJL 16.888094
18 CHG 18.757784
19 Iran_N 21.066420
20 Iranian_Mazandarani 22.420156

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Pathan +50% Punjabi 3.211684


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Burusho +25% CHG +25% GujaratiB 2.246666


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++
1 Burusho + Burusho + CHG + GujaratiB 2.246666
2 Burusho + Kurd_SE + Punjabi + Punjabi 2.339111
3 Burusho + GujaratiB + Kalash + Kurd_SE 2.395571
4 Burusho + GujaratiB + Kurd_SE + Pathan 2.428416
5 Burusho + Burusho + CHG + GujaratiA 2.546767
6 Burusho + CHG + GujaratiB + Punjabi 2.588639
7 Burusho + CHG + GujaratiB + GujaratiB 2.640298
8 Burusho + GujaratiA + Kurd_SE + Punjabi 2.665609
9 Burusho + Kalash + Pathan + Punjabi 2.673668
10 Burusho + GujaratiB + Kurd_SE + Punjabi 2.682261
11 Burusho + Pathan + Pathan + Punjabi 2.686395
12 Burusho + Kurd_SE + Pathan + Punjabi 2.694074
13 Burusho + Kalash + Kalash + Punjabi 2.697691
14 Burusho + CHG + GujaratiA + GujaratiB 2.701923
15 Burusho + Burusho + CHG + Punjabi 2.709986
16 Balochi + Burusho + Punjabi + Punjabi 2.715634
17 Burusho + Kurd_SE + Punjabi + Sindhi 2.748036
18 Burusho + GujaratiB + Kalash + Kalash 2.763621
19 Burusho + Kalash + Punjabi + Punjabi 2.765159
20 Burusho + Kalash + Kurd_SE + Punjabi 2.765353


So what gotras/castes/tribes is all this, are higher numbers better or less accurate?
If there's any more admixtures you'd like to see please let me know!

Many thanks and kind regards,
Farhan Mirza

bol_nat
02-16-2018, 12:42 PM
Your results are very similar to GT road punjabis irrespective of castes or tribes we have seen, not sure if there is any mughal there.

Sapporo
02-16-2018, 01:46 PM
Your results are very similar to GT road punjabis irrespective of castes or tribes we have seen, not sure if there is any mughal there.

I agree. Although, the notably high Baloch on Harappa does sort of give him a Punjabi Arain profile and that is what in turn comes out on his oracle's single population distance.

Farhanum
02-16-2018, 02:11 PM
Thank you for your comments, so does that mean ancestry travelled from Afghanistan side into Pakistan or something else? What else does the data tell you guys? :p

Heir of Gandhara
02-16-2018, 06:24 PM
Thank you for your comments, so does that mean ancestry travelled from Afghanistan side into Pakistan or something else? What else does the data tell you guys? :p

Chotala?

bol_nat
02-16-2018, 06:37 PM
I agree. Although, the notably high Baloch on Harappa does sort of give him a Punjabi Arain profile and that is what in turn comes out on his oracle's single population distance.

More similar to gujjar and that other awan/gondal from Mandi Bahaudin. Arains samples we have seen on anthrogenica score bit differently.


MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 South_Central_Asian 40.26
2 South_Indian 32.75
3 Caucasian 11.07
4 Ancestral_Altaic 6.64
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 4.09


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Punjabi_Gujjar_ @ 3.471389
2 Jatt_Pahari_ @ 5.080925
3 Pakistani_ @ 7.171113
4 Pathan_ @ 7.542749
5 GujaratiA_GIH_ @ 7.956855
6 Sindhi_ @ 8.017978
7 Jatt_Muslim_ @ 9.313622
8 Burusho_ @ 9.522017
9 Jatt_Haryana_ @ 11.451249
10 GujaratiB_GIH_ @ 15.078572
11 Tiwari_ @ 15.447925
12 Pakistani_Pushtun_ @ 16.004461
13 Hindi_ @ 17.852367
14 Marathi_ @ 18.539921
15 Kshatriya_ @ 18.647217
16 Brahmin_Tamil_ @ 18.688665
17 Mumbai_Jew_ @ 18.952703
18 Vaish_ @ 19.862595
19 Cochin_Jew_ @ 19.928114
20 Pashtun_Afghani_ @ 20.270153

Farhanum
02-16-2018, 07:33 PM
Whats the significance of reading 1 population approximation over the others?

Heir of Gandhara
02-16-2018, 09:49 PM
Farhan if you have relatives in Chotala, Jhelum I would probably know a thing or two about them because I am from that region.

Also, where did you get your Y-DNA and mtDNA tested from?

bol_nat
02-17-2018, 12:08 AM
Thank you for your comments, so does that mean ancestry travelled from Afghanistan side into Pakistan or something else? What else does the data tell you guys? :p

In Kharian at least mughals are known as lohars, not sure about Jhelum. Its hard to see any mongol like admixture in your result.

bol_nat
02-17-2018, 04:19 AM
My Family always said we were mughals (surname is Mirza) but I think over time people change their surnames and titles for an easier life!


Changing titles in rural areas have little effect for better or worse. I think only exception are Syeds. For exemple some telis adopt Malik title in Kharian and maybe try to pass of as awans but it doesn't work. All it does now people know malik is used by awans and telis. Another case some Kashmiris who were into shawl-weaving profession adopted Bhatti instead of Butt which is rajput surname. But people in Kharian never confused them for native rajas like chibs or khokhars. All it did is now people here think Bhattis are Kashmiris. My grandmother doesn't know bhattis are supposed to be rajputs.

Pretty much everyone believe famous Aziz Bhatti is rajput and his real origin being Kashmiri is only known to locals in Kharian. I don't know why they changed it, their family was in army before 1947 and maybe in those days one had to belong to "martial race" to get in to army.

khanabadoshi
02-17-2018, 04:34 AM
Try MDLP K16, the oracle list is extensive in that calculator.

MonkeyDLuffy
02-17-2018, 05:38 AM
Didn't lohars also started using mughal as well recently? Although your results seems more similar to Paharis punjabis except lower NE asian.

passion
02-17-2018, 05:58 AM
Your results fit in the ballpark of punjabis well.

bol_nat
02-17-2018, 06:07 AM
Didn't lohars also started using mughal as well recently? Although your results seems more similar to Paharis punjabis except lower NE asian.

Yes but OP case could be different. Some people who were not lohars could have adopted mughal like surnames for being in association with them for one way or another.

Heir of Gandhara
02-17-2018, 06:33 AM
Didn't lohars also started using mughal as well recently? Although your results seems more similar to Paharis punjabis except lower NE asian.

Many Mughals are well respected in Jhelum and Chakwal at least. The Kassars of Chakwal are well established and so are the Mirzas of Chotala in Jhelum. Mirza basically was a title given to some people by the Mughals. Maybe those who were alotted the title later also assumed a Mughal identity just to project an association with them?

Kulin
02-17-2018, 06:56 AM
Changing titles in rural areas have little effect for better or worse. I think only exception are Syeds. For exemple some telis adopt Malik title in Kharian and maybe try to pass of as awans but it doesn't work. All it does now people know malik is used by awans and telis. Another case some Kashmiris who were into shawl-weaving profession adopted Bhatti instead of Butt which is rajput surname. But people in Kharian never confused them for native rajas like chibs or khokhars. All it did is now people here think Bhattis are Kashmiris. My grandmother doesn't know bhattis are supposed to be rajputs.

Pretty much everyone believe famous Aziz Bhatti is rajput and his real origin being Kashmiri is only known to locals in Kharian. I don't know why they changed it, their family was in army before 1947 and maybe in those days one had to belong to "martial race" to get in to army.


Isn't Aziz Bhatti related to the Sharif family? How can that be if he's not a Rajput.

Farhanum
02-17-2018, 07:14 AM
Many Mughals are well respected in Jhelum and Chakwal at least. The Kassars of Chakwal are well established and so are the Mirzas of Chotala in Jhelum. Mirza basically was a title given to some people by the Mughals. Maybe those who were alotted the title later also assumed a Mughal identity just to project an association with them?

I've got family in chakwal but not in chotala, and grandma is from a place called machine mohalla in Jhelum I think...

Farhanum
02-17-2018, 07:17 AM
In Kharian at least mughals are known as lohars, not sure about Jhelum. Its hard to see any mongol like admixture in your result.

Is there any south Indian or is it mainly all Baloch?

(Apologies for double post guys, I'm on the phone xD)

bol_nat
02-17-2018, 04:00 PM
Is there any south Indian or is it mainly all Baloch?

(Apologies for double post guys, I'm on the phone xD)

South Indian and baloch are just component names on calculater. Your ancestors were likely associated with mughals or in their army and adopted mughal surname. Some lohars in Kharian were probably not associated with mughal and may have adopted surname recently. I've read that they were forced to become lohars by sikhs, it was written by someone claiming to be mughal lohar who tried to explain why mughals now are lohars so maybe not historically accurate.

jazmb
05-19-2018, 05:45 PM
Changing titles in rural areas have little effect for better or worse. I think only exception are Syeds. For exemple some telis adopt Malik title in Kharian and maybe try to pass of as awans but it doesn't work. All it does now people know malik is used by awans and telis. Another case some Kashmiris who were into shawl-weaving profession adopted Bhatti instead of Butt which is rajput surname. But people in Kharian never confused them for native rajas like chibs or khokhars. All it did is now people here think Bhattis are Kashmiris. My grandmother doesn't know bhattis are supposed to be rajputs.

Pretty much everyone believe famous Aziz Bhatti is rajput and his real origin being Kashmiri is only known to locals in Kharian. I don't know why they changed it, their family was in army before 1947 and maybe in those days one had to belong to "martial race" to get in to army.

I was reading "A Glossary of tribes and Castes of Punjab and Northwest", it is public book you can also read it online, i found there that "Batti" not "Bhatti" was a clan of Kashmiris found in Gujrat and other areas of Punjab pre-1947. Surprisingly I have recently found that "Batti" again not "Bhatti" is also a surname used by Kamboj/Kambo of Indian Punjab who have migrated from Pakistani Punjab who were of hindu agriculturist/cultivator origin. I found it interesting and read the history of Kamboh/Kamboj in the Glossary book and found that "Batti" was indeed a sub-caste of Kamboh/Kambojs of West Punjab and according to british authors there were claims by many Kamboj/Kamboh communities particularly from east of Punjab neear Meerath that their ancestors had come from Kashmir but they don't know when, they wrote that this was particularly the case with Muslim Kambohs who had adopted "Zuberi" surname and you might know there are many Muhajirs in Pakistan with "Zuberi" surname, interestingly I also found a statement in Glossary book that until few generations ago Zuberi Kamboh women of Meerath didn't pierce their noses which is surprisingly a custom only found among some Kashmiri Muslims of Punjab. It looks to me that ethnic genesis of many of the people of Punjab is much more complicated than I used to think before. So I learnt from Glossar booky that many Kamboh/Kambojs are potentially of distant Kashmiri descent, another fact was that most Arains and Kambo/Kamboj in areas of central Punjab particularly in Lahore and Amritsar were essentially same people with two different labels as it was common at some time in history for Kamboh converts to Islam to take on Arain family name, so Kamboj have a significant contribution in the ethnogenisis of Arains, and the reason why there are no non-Muslim Arains also become very easy to understand, the label Arain was used by Muslims Kamjohs to differentiate themselves from their non-Muslim counterparts, offcourse there are many muslim Kambohs too with the family name Kamboh but it looks like the trend must have been different in different eras and geographical areas of conversion.

bol_nat
05-19-2018, 05:56 PM
I was reading "A Glossary of tribes and Castes of Punjab and Northwest", it is public book you can also read it online, i found there that "Batti" not "Bhatti" was a clan of Kashmiris found in Gujrat and other areas of Punjab pre-1947. Surprisingly I have recently found that "Batti" again not "Bhatti" is also a surname used by Kamboj/Kambo of Indian Punjab who have migrated from Pakistani Punjab who were of hindu agriculturist/cultivator origin. I found it interesting and read the history of Kamboh/Kamboj in the Glossary book and found that "Batti" was indeed a sub-caste of Kamboh/Kambojs of West Punjab and according to british authors there were claims by many Kamboj/Kamboh communities particularly from east of Punjab neear Meerath that their ancestors had come from Kashmir but they don't know when, they wrote that this was particularly the case with Muslim Kambohs who had adopted "Zuberi" surname and you might know there are many Muhajirs in Pakistan with "Zuberi" surname, interestingly I also found a statement in Glossary book that until few generations ago Kamboh women didn't pierce their noses which is surprisingly a custom only found among some Kashmiri Muslims of Punjab. It looks to me that ethnic genesis of many of the people of Punjab is much more complicated than I used to think before. Another thing that I learnt from Glossar booky that many Kamboh/Kambojs are actually of northern/Kashmiri descent, another fact was that most Arains and Kambo/Kamboj in areas of central Punjab are essentially same people with two different labels as it was common at some time in history for Kamboh converts to Islam to take on Arain family names.

Possible because old people in Kharian around Kotla region from where Aziz Bhatti was from don't know anything bhatti rajputs. Though on wikipedia and in general people confuse him for bhatti but around Kotla people say they are Kashmiris. And they also intermarry with butts which is another reason people say they are kashmiris.

jazmb
05-19-2018, 06:27 PM
.....

jazmb
05-19-2018, 06:30 PM
Possible because old people in Kharian around Kotla region from where Aziz Bhatti was from don't know anything bhatti rajputs. Though on wikipedia and in general people confuse him for bhatti but around Kotla people say they are Kashmiris. And they also intermarry with butts which is another reason people say they are kashmiris.

I think the history of ethnogenesis of people in Punjab particularly of Muslims is very complicated. For example in the last couple of years many victims of Punjab partion have been interviewed and their videos have been uploaded on youtube, there are many such channels. One thing I learned from many of those videos was that for example coversion of many Sikh Jatts to Islam in Gujranwala, Sialkot and Lahore rural areas in 1800s was usually in such a way that many Sikh Jatts converted to Islam and married Muslim women of any caste in their villages and then their offsprings will be muslims afterwards even though their Sikh paternal relatives were still living in the same village side by side with them, according to the Jatt Sikh elders this was the most common mode of conversion in 1800s and before in Gujranwala, Sialkot and Lahore rural areas. So it seems that most of the Muslim Jatts from these areas are mostly of Jatts mixed with some other Muslim local castes. So no one is pure caste in these regions though endogamy has been there but not so strict as I used to think before. It looks to me people were not as strict to marry outside their castes among Muslims of Punjab in the past compared to what they became during 20th century onwards possibly as a result of cultural changes that took place during British occupation of Punjab.

Hhuyhhbhh
08-16-2019, 03:12 PM
Yo bro I'm a Azad kashmiri gujjar(mirpuri) what was your gedmatch score (south Indian Baloch Caucasian etc etc)

tipirneni
08-16-2019, 04:57 PM
High South Indian & Caucasus match showing up with South Asian having similar profile.
I am getting on 100/1cM Largest segment = 5.7 cM Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 464.4 cM (12.950 Pct) 299 shared segments found for this comparison 395646 SNPs used for this comparison.

MDLP 16 profile

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.9% Gujjar (Punjab) + 26.1% Burusho (Pakistan) @ 2.79
2 96.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 3.8% Tubalar ((Altai)) @ 2.81
3 89.5% Sindhi (Sindh) + 10.5% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 3
4 89.9% Sindhi (Sindh) + 10.1% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 3.11
5 90% Sindhi (Sindh) + 10% Adygei (Adygea) @ 3.19
6 71.3% Gujjar (Punjab) + 28.7% Kashmiri_Pandit (Kashmir) @ 3.25
7 70.7% Gujjar (Punjab) + 29.3% Pathan (Punjab) @ 3.25
8 72.8% Gujjar (Punjab) + 27.2% Jatt (Muslim) @ 3.25
9 56.7% Pathan (Punjab) + 43.3% Sindhi (Sindh) @ 3.26
10 97% Gujjar (Punjab) + 3% Shor (Kemerovo) @ 3.28
11 97.7% Gujjar (Punjab) + 2.3% Forest-Nenets (Nadym) @ 3.29
12 98.1% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.9% Sakha (Yakutia) @ 3.31
13 85.6% Gujjar (Punjab) + 14.4% Jatt (Haryana) @ 3.32
14 97.4% Gujjar (Punjab) + 2.6% Ket (Krasnoyarski_Krai) @ 3.32
15 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Nganasan (Taymyr) @ 3.32
16 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Dolgan (Taymyr) @ 3.32
17 97.8% Gujjar (Punjab) + 2.2% Tundra_Nenets (Kanin) @ 3.33
18 97.5% Gujjar (Punjab) + 2.5% Selkup ((Yamalo_Nenets_okrug)) @ 3.34
19 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Tundra_Yukaghir (Andryushkino) @ 3.34
20 98.2% Gujjar (Punjab) + 1.8% Even (Sakha) @ 3.35