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Kelmendasi
02-18-2018, 04:04 PM
Hey guys. My maternal Ydna results came a few days ago and it shows that my mothers side belong to E-V13 although the markers seem to be unique and my maternal uncles seem to have no matches at 37 markers but the do have matches at 12 and 25 markers, most matches seem to come from NW and Central Europe with some Balkanites(Pomaks, Bulgarians, Arvanites). The closest match on both Y12 and Y25 is a German(?) from southern Czechia who going by the SNPs he has tested he is just E-V13*. We still don't know the exact subclade as it's hard to determine a subclade of V13 with only 37 markers so I will buy a SNP pack later this month or next month. My mothers side are from Borove in Diber(North eastern Albania). Would be interesting to see what clade you guys think my maternal uncles belong to going by STRs or by close matches on the E-M35 project if you are an admin there or involved there. Thanks

STR results:
https://s14.postimg.org/lzi7dc7r5/image_72.png

Y12 matches map:
https://s14.postimg.org/px5h2lx3l/image_73.png

Y25 matches map:
https://s14.postimg.org/b16xv2ykh/image_74.png

Kelmendasi
02-18-2018, 05:47 PM
BUMP!

eastara
02-18-2018, 10:27 PM
My advice to Balkan people is to look first to other Balkan matches and ignore the West European. I remember how many members of R1b-BY611 wasted money to test under L21, claiming most of their matches were under this Atlantic branch.
My opinion is these results are under V13->Z5018->S2979, you have a couple of Bulgarians with Big Y matching there.

Skerdilaidas
02-19-2018, 03:15 AM
I don't think the fella Bulgarians are real matches, they just appear to be close due to convergence. Getting the SNP pack would the best option, and also upgrade up to 67 markers if you could in the future.

eastara
02-19-2018, 12:57 PM
Yes, it is hard to predict the V13 subbranch even with 67 markers. You can use also the tool Fetch a Match on the Haplozone project, it shows matches with more than 5 differences, the limit at 37 STR on FTDNA:
http://www.haplozone.net/e3b/project/match
I have entered your results there and some of your closest matches are also from the Middle East S7461+

(26) Matches found at a distance <= 6

GD kitnum surname haplo snp cluster 393 390 19 391 385a 385b 426 388 439 389-1 392 389-2 458 459a 459b 455 454 447 437 448 449 464a 464b 464c 464d 460 gatah4 ycaiia ycaiib 456 607 576 570 cdya cdyb 442 438
5 B22545 McLemore E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 15 18 11 12 12 13 11 31 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 16 17 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 32 34 11 10
5 625496 DAWSON D-78 E1b1b1 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 16 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 16 16 9 12 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 36 11 10
5 289974 Smith E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 15 18 11 12 12 13 11 31 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16 17 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 30 34 11 10
5 467313 Kee E1b1b1a L117 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 15 16 16 16 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 35 11 10
5 176680 Fattal E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 14 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 19 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 30 34 11 10
5 191415 Demir E1b1b1a V13 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 13 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 20 30 33 11 10
6 274490 Hristov E1b1b1a BY5350 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 31 32 11 10
6 E14425 Gacaferi E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 20 30 34 11 10
6 310294 Savalchak E1b1b1a BY5610 E-L241 14 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 16 16 17 17 9 12 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 33 10 10
6 371277 Coquard E1b1b1a BY6420 E-V13 13 24 13 10 17 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 36 12 10
6 5960 Bartlett E1b1b1a Z17264 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 25 14 20 34 14 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 501872 Silikyan E1b1b1 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 15 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 31 34 11 10
6 254329 Litvinov E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 17 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 21 32 34 11 10
6 186894 Bryant E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 25 14 20 34 14 16 16 16 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 N92783 Bozovic E1b1b1 E-V13 13 25 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 31 33 11 10
6 122881 Boyer E1b1b1 E-V13 13 23 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 22 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 20 30 35 11 10
6 N19717 Wolfinger E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 16 21 32 34 11 10
6 402393 Grammont E1b1b1b L542 E-V13 13 25 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 16 8 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 14 16 16 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 19 32 37 11 10
6 E8272 Abdurrahmani E1b1b1a L241 E-L241 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 15 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 338942 Altmeier E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 31 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 18 19 29 35 11 10
6 EV13 Modal E1b1b1b V13 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 34 11 10
6 167532 Zarzaliev E1b1b1a L542 E-V13 13 25 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 14 16 16 9 11 19 21 17 12 16 19 34 34 11 10
6 422356 Gage E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 20 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 21 34 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 30 37 11 10
6 210110 O'Bryant E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 25 14 20 34 14 16 16 16 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 547074 Sharp E1b1b1 13 24 13 10 16 17 11 12 10 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 18 30 34 11 10
6 153169 Kronen E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 16 18 31 35 11 10

Dibran
02-19-2018, 03:32 PM
Did the Thracian Auxilla unit that may have carried this branch go to the middle east? Maybe left with Roman soldiers, or even carried during the Byzantine Empire. Perhaps his Bulgarian matches are only due to a Thracian link.

Kelmendasi
02-19-2018, 06:01 PM
Yes, it is hard to predict the V13 subbranch even with 67 markers. You can use also the tool Fetch a Match on the Haplozone project, it shows matches with more than 5 differences, the limit at 37 STR on FTDNA:
http://www.haplozone.net/e3b/project/match
I have entered your results there and some of your closest matches are also from the Middle East S7461+

(26) Matches found at a distance <= 6

GD kitnum surname haplo snp cluster 393 390 19 391 385a 385b 426 388 439 389-1 392 389-2 458 459a 459b 455 454 447 437 448 449 464a 464b 464c 464d 460 gatah4 ycaiia ycaiib 456 607 576 570 cdya cdyb 442 438
5 B22545 McLemore E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 15 18 11 12 12 13 11 31 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 16 17 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 32 34 11 10
5 625496 DAWSON D-78 E1b1b1 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 16 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 16 16 9 12 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 36 11 10
5 289974 Smith E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 15 18 11 12 12 13 11 31 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16 17 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 30 34 11 10
5 467313 Kee E1b1b1a L117 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 15 16 16 16 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 35 11 10
5 176680 Fattal E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 14 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 19 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 30 34 11 10
5 191415 Demir E1b1b1a V13 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 13 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 20 30 33 11 10
6 274490 Hristov E1b1b1a BY5350 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 31 32 11 10
6 E14425 Gacaferi E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 20 30 34 11 10
6 310294 Savalchak E1b1b1a BY5610 E-L241 14 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 16 16 17 17 9 12 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 33 10 10
6 371277 Coquard E1b1b1a BY6420 E-V13 13 24 13 10 17 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 36 12 10
6 5960 Bartlett E1b1b1a Z17264 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 25 14 20 34 14 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 501872 Silikyan E1b1b1 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 15 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 31 34 11 10
6 254329 Litvinov E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 17 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 21 32 34 11 10
6 186894 Bryant E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 25 14 20 34 14 16 16 16 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 N92783 Bozovic E1b1b1 E-V13 13 25 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 31 33 11 10
6 122881 Boyer E1b1b1 E-V13 13 23 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 22 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 20 30 35 11 10
6 N19717 Wolfinger E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 16 21 32 34 11 10
6 402393 Grammont E1b1b1b L542 E-V13 13 25 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 16 8 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 14 16 16 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 19 32 37 11 10
6 E8272 Abdurrahmani E1b1b1a L241 E-L241 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 15 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 338942 Altmeier E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 31 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 18 19 29 35 11 10
6 EV13 Modal E1b1b1b V13 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 34 11 10
6 167532 Zarzaliev E1b1b1a L542 E-V13 13 25 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 14 16 16 9 11 19 21 17 12 16 19 34 34 11 10
6 422356 Gage E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 20 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 21 34 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 30 37 11 10
6 210110 O'Bryant E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 25 14 20 34 14 16 16 16 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 547074 Sharp E1b1b1 13 24 13 10 16 17 11 12 10 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 18 30 34 11 10
6 153169 Kronen E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 16 18 31 35 11 10
The closest matches are still mainly from Western Europe though? From what I have seen the only close match from West Asia is an Udi from Azerbaijan and is S7461 suggesting European origin. So going by this would you assume that the clade is S7461 or Z5018?

Kelmendasi
02-19-2018, 06:03 PM
Did the Thracian Auxilla unit that may have carried this branch go to the middle east? Maybe left with Roman soldiers, or even carried during the Byzantine Empire. Perhaps his Bulgarian matches are only due to a Thracian link.
The people from the Middle East with the S7461 branch have European paternal origin although I’m not sure where from exactly. I think the Balkan matches are due to convergences like Skerdi said. The S7461 in west Europe though is believed to come from Balkan troops in the Roman army

eastara
02-19-2018, 10:36 PM
S7461 is the major V13 branch in the Middle East and I don't think it is due to recent European origin like Ottoman Turks, etc. This is in fact the most widely spread V13 branch, which, for now has been found on the Balkans among Bulgarians and Pomaks only.
It will be interesting if you are the first Albanian with it, but you don't fit any of the close STR Albanian clusters, so it will not be that common there.

Kelmendasi
02-19-2018, 11:07 PM
S7461 is the major V13 branch in the Middle East and I don't think it is due to recent European origin like Ottoman Turks, etc. This is in fact the most widely spread V13 branch, which, for now has been found on the Balkans among Bulgarians and Pomaks only.
It will be interesting if you are the first Albanian with it, but you don't fit any of the close STR Albanian clusters, so it will not be that common there.
It seems to have a earlier expansion there then from Europe/Balkans possibly due to Romans or Greeks/Macedonians maybe. In the Balkans it has also been found among a Greek iirc.

Dibran
02-20-2018, 01:29 AM
It seems to have a earlier expansion there then from Europe/Balkans possibly due to Romans or Greeks/Macedonians maybe. In the Balkans it has also been found among a Greek iirc.


Pėrgjigja e saj nė kėtė diskutim pėr ēdo diskutim YDNA ėshtė gjithmonė bullgare. Mos i kushtoni shumė mendje.

Johane Derite
02-20-2018, 01:59 AM
I have entered your results there and some of your closest matches are also from the Middle East S7461+

(26) Matches found at a distance <= 6

GD kitnum surname haplo snp cluster 393 390 19 391 385a 385b 426 388 439 389-1 392 389-2 458 459a 459b 455 454 447 437 448 449 464a 464b 464c 464d 460 gatah4 ycaiia ycaiib 456 607 576 570 cdya cdyb 442 438
5 B22545 McLemore E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 15 18 11 12 12 13 11 31 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 16 17 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 32 34 11 10
5 625496 DAWSON D-78 E1b1b1 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 16 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 16 16 9 12 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 36 11 10
5 289974 Smith E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 15 18 11 12 12 13 11 31 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16 17 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 30 34 11 10
5 467313 Kee E1b1b1a L117 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 15 16 16 16 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 35 11 10
5 176680 Fattal E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 14 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 19 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 30 34 11 10
5 191415 Demir E1b1b1a V13 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 13 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 20 30 33 11 10
6 274490 Hristov E1b1b1a BY5350 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 31 32 11 10
6 E14425 Gacaferi E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 20 30 34 11 10
6 310294 Savalchak E1b1b1a BY5610 E-L241 14 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 16 16 17 17 9 12 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 33 10 10
6 371277 Coquard E1b1b1a BY6420 E-V13 13 24 13 10 17 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 19 30 36 12 10
6 5960 Bartlett E1b1b1a Z17264 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 25 14 20 34 14 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 501872 Silikyan E1b1b1 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 15 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 31 34 11 10
6 254329 Litvinov E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 17 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 21 32 34 11 10
6 186894 Bryant E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 25 14 20 34 14 16 16 16 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 N92783 Bozovic E1b1b1 E-V13 13 25 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 31 33 11 10
6 122881 Boyer E1b1b1 E-V13 13 23 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 22 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 20 30 35 11 10
6 N19717 Wolfinger E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 16 21 32 34 11 10
6 402393 Grammont E1b1b1b L542 E-V13 13 25 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 16 8 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 14 16 16 9 11 19 21 16 12 16 19 32 37 11 10
6 E8272 Abdurrahmani E1b1b1a L241 E-L241 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 15 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 338942 Altmeier E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 31 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 18 19 29 35 11 10
6 EV13 Modal E1b1b1b V13 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 34 11 10
6 167532 Zarzaliev E1b1b1a L542 E-V13 13 25 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14 14 16 16 9 11 19 21 17 12 16 19 34 34 11 10
6 422356 Gage E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 20 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 21 34 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 19 30 37 11 10
6 210110 O'Bryant E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 25 14 20 34 14 16 16 16 9 11 19 21 17 12 17 19 30 33 11 10
6 547074 Sharp E1b1b1 13 24 13 10 16 17 11 12 10 13 11 31 16 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17 18 30 34 11 10
6 153169 Kronen E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 33 14 16 17 17 9 11 19 21 17 12 16 18 31 35 11 10


Almost all those names on that list are western european, which makes your remark about middle east slightly odd. The only obviously muslim name there is "Abdurrahmani" but that could easily be a Bosnian who
is autosomally more slav than the average serb but simply has a muslim name.

Also there is an albanian name there:

6 E14425 Gacaferi E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17

Skerdilaidas
02-20-2018, 03:03 AM
^^Adburrahmani is actually Albanian from Kosove - Vushtrri, and closely related to Gacaferi - who is fis Gash (Bardhe) from western Kosove - and other Gashi L241 samples.

eastara
02-20-2018, 10:31 AM
WEll, I said ALSO S7461+ from the Middle East as he mentioned in his initial post West European matches only. On this list is an Armenian Silikyan who just came as S7461+ from Big Y, there are also top matches a Turk and a Syrian. They did not test deeper, but S7461 is a major V13 clade among Druze and is found in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. He does not match the Bulgarian S7461's, but some under Z5018/S2979 are on his list. He probably will be from a different branch if he really is under S7461.

eastara
02-20-2018, 10:53 AM
Sorry, just found something interesting - Silikyan is in fact Udin, this is supposed to be one of the older nationalities on the Caucasus, being a part of Caucasian Albania. As far as I remember there were theories Albanians actually came from there until genetics proved they are 100% Balkan people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udi_people

Kelmendasi
02-20-2018, 03:51 PM
WEll, I said ALSO S7461+ from the Middle East as he mentioned in his initial post West European matches only. On this list is an Armenian Silikyan who just came as S7461+ from Big Y, there are also top matches a Turk and a Syrian. They did not test deeper, but S7461 is a major V13 clade among Druze and is found in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. He does not match the Bulgarian S7461's, but some under Z5018/S2979 are on his list. He probably will be from a different branch if he really is under S7461.
I didn't only show Western European matches lol but I said that the vast majority of the matches are west European which is true, basically all of the matches are Europeans(Ones who are probably actual matches). The matches which are Middle Eastern are nearly all on Y12 which isn't accurate for matches, only Silikyan and a Turk are matches from Asia on Y25 and they are pretty distant

Kelmendasi
02-20-2018, 03:56 PM
Sorry, just found something interesting - Silikyan is in fact Udin, this is supposed to be one of the older nationalities on the Caucasus, being a part of Caucasian Albania. As far as I remember there were theories Albanians actually came from there until genetics proved they are 100% Balkan people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udi_people
Are you trying to suggest a link with Caucasian Albania :biggrin1: lol? In fact it's that this Silikyan guy has distant origin from the Balkans as suggested by how E-V13 and S7461 have origin in the Balkans so it does suggest that his ancestors came via the Romans or Balkan peoples such as the Macedonians. The Caucasus theory was also proved wrong by culture and linguistics, the theory was only based on the name of the country which was in fact given to them by Romans. He isn't even close, the people who are actually pretty close(not really close as they are just Y25 matches) are from the Czech republic, Italy, Ireland and the US as they are Step 1 matches on Y25.

Dibran
02-20-2018, 04:41 PM
Are you trying to suggest a link with Caucasian Albania :biggrin1: lol? In fact it's that this Silikyan guy has distant origin from the Balkans as suggested by how E-V13 and S7461 have origin in the Balkans so it does suggest that his ancestors came via the Romans or Balkan peoples such as the Macedonians. The Caucasus theory was also proved wrong by culture and linguistics, the theory was only based on the name of the country which was in fact given to them by Romans. He isn't even close, the people who are actually pretty close(not really close as they are just Y25 matches) are from the Czech republic, Italy, Ireland and the US as they are Step 1 matches on Y25.

It was actually the Normans who named us in Latin of course, as Albania. As the classification roughly arose within 100 years of Norman arrival, if I am not mistaken.

Kelmendasi
02-20-2018, 04:43 PM
It was actually the Normans who named us in Latin of course, as Albania. As the classification roughly arose within 100 years of Norman arrival, if I am not mistaken.
Perhaps for us it was but for the Caucasian Albanians it was given to them by the Romans, they have absolutely no link to us

Kelmendasi
02-20-2018, 04:55 PM
I am convinced that the S7461 in Lebanon could be of Crusader origin. This is because the clade found among them is also found among Europeans and has a TMRCA of 900ybp which is at around 1118 AD which fits with the county of Tripoli which was a Crusader state in Lebanon from between 1102-1289 AD.

Dibran
02-20-2018, 06:49 PM
Perhaps for us it was but for the Caucasian Albanians it was given to them by the Romans, they have absolutely no link to us

Ahh I read it wrong, Thought you meant us. lol

eastara
02-20-2018, 09:29 PM
Are you trying to suggest a link with Caucasian Albania :biggrin1: lol? In fact it's that this Silikyan guy has distant origin from the Balkans as suggested by how E-V13 and S7461 have origin in the Balkans so it does suggest that his ancestors came via the Romans or Balkan peoples such as the Macedonians. The Caucasus theory was also proved wrong by culture and linguistics, the theory was only based on the name of the country which was in fact given to them by Romans. He isn't even close, the people who are actually pretty close(not really close as they are just Y25 matches) are from the Czech republic, Italy, Ireland and the US as they are Step 1 matches on Y25.

I clearly said Albanians are 100% Balkan, but if really connected to the Udi people, the explanation is up to you. If connected to an Azerbaijani, yes, they have recent Turkish input, but the Udi lived in isolation in the mountains for a long time.
Anyway, this discussion is useless until your deep SNP results come out. But my initial advice stays - Balkan people should look first at their local matches for a guidance. Even having recent Middle East matches is more likely than British as we were 500 years under the Ottoman, not British empire.

Kelmendasi
02-20-2018, 09:57 PM
I clearly said Albanians are 100% Balkan, but if really connected to the Udi people, the explanation is up to you. If connected to an Azerbaijani, yes, they have recent Turkish input, but the Udi lived in isolation in the mountains for a long time.
Anyway, this discussion is useless until your deep SNP results come out. But my initial advice stays - Balkan people should look first at their local matches for a guidance. Even having recent Middle East matches is more likely than British as we were 500 years under the Ottoman, not British empire.
The Udi or Azeris have no link to Albanians. And the matches that are from west Europe are by far closer than this one guy from Asia as I have explained before.

Kelmendasi
02-20-2018, 10:02 PM
Almost all those names on that list are western european, which makes your remark about middle east slightly odd. The only obviously muslim name there is "Abdurrahmani" but that could easily be a Bosnian who
is autosomally more slav than the average serb but simply has a muslim name.

Also there is an albanian name there:

6 E14425 Gacaferi E1b1b1 E-V13 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 11 30 15 9 9 11 11 26 14 20 32 16 16 16 17 9 11 19 21 16 12 17
Exactly, there are only 2 matches from west Asia on 25 markers(not even close) and they are step 2 which is not close at all, the closest are all from Europe like the rest of the matches apart from those 2 west Asian

Kelmendasi
02-20-2018, 10:09 PM
Y25 ancestral origins matches:

https://s14.postimg.org/y9zq4gp29/image_75.png

Dibran
02-20-2018, 11:37 PM
The Udi or Azeris have no link to Albanians. And the matches that are from west Europe are by far closer than this one guy from Asia as I have explained before.

Ignore her. She is literally on Eupedia saying that Albanians only spread out from a small population 300 years ago. Yes, according to her, most Albanians weren't occupying any of the lands they hold today only 300 years ago. Can't speak more ignorance than with records to the contrary.

Kelmendasi
02-20-2018, 11:54 PM
Ignore her. She is literally on Eupedia saying that Albanians only spread out from a small population 300 years ago. Yes, according to her, most Albanians weren't occupying any of the lands they hold today only 300 years ago. Can't speak more ignorance than that recorded records to the contrary.
Lol, evidence suggests 1,500 years ago but she can believe whatever she wants to. Im not taking much of it seriously after her trying to make some big deal out of 1 step 2 Y25 match from Azerbaijan lol xD

Labėria
02-22-2018, 06:28 AM
I clearly said Albanians are 100% Balkan, but if really connected to the Udi people, the explanation is up to you. If connected to an Azerbaijani, yes, they have recent Turkish input, but the Udi lived in isolation in the mountains for a long time.
Anyway, this discussion is useless until your deep SNP results come out. But my initial advice stays - Balkan people should look first at their local matches for a guidance. Even having recent Middle East matches is more likely than British as we were 500 years under the Ottoman, not British empire.

Macedonian Prime Zoran Zaev: I'm of Albanian descent! There are 25 million Orthodox Albanians in Balkans

Following news that Vice Prime Minister and Vice President of SDSM, Radmila Šekerinska has Albanian roots, the media close to VMRO have declared of Albanian Orthodox descent also the Prime Minister of Macedonia Zoran Zaev.

"I have Albanian Orthodox origin, both from grandmother and grandfather since the Illyrians of Strumica accepted the Orthodox faith. Over time, the Slavs, mostly with violence, assimilated and imposed the Macedonian language.

But all this is history. I forgive and we have to forget those things now and we should build a society and life for everyone. I do not know how to speak in Albanian because the Albanian language is not my mother tongue, but the language of the elderly grandparents, but it does not matter how we talk but important is of how we feel. I feel an Albanian Orthodox.

More than 25 million Orthodox Albanians live in the Balkans, mainly in FYROM, Greece, Albania and Serbia. That is why we easily understand the Greeks. Gruevski was fascist and ethnically pure, and with such a person can not be negotiated "- Zaev said.

Dibran
02-25-2018, 07:34 PM
Macedonian Prime Zoran Zaev: I'm of Albanian descent! There are 25 million Orthodox Albanians in Balkans

Following news that Vice Prime Minister and Vice President of SDSM, Radmila Šekerinska has Albanian roots, the media close to VMRO have declared of Albanian Orthodox descent also the Prime Minister of Macedonia Zoran Zaev.

"I have Albanian Orthodox origin, both from grandmother and grandfather since the Illyrians of Strumica accepted the Orthodox faith. Over time, the Slavs, mostly with violence, assimilated and imposed the Macedonian language.

But all this is history. I forgive and we have to forget those things now and we should build a society and life for everyone. I do not know how to speak in Albanian because the Albanian language is not my mother tongue, but the language of the elderly grandparents, but it does not matter how we talk but important is of how we feel. I feel an Albanian Orthodox.

More than 25 million Orthodox Albanians live in the Balkans, mainly in FYROM, Greece, Albania and Serbia. That is why we easily understand the Greeks. Gruevski was fascist and ethnically pure, and with such a person can not be negotiated "- Zaev said.

Where is the source? the only source that pops up with him "saying this" is ocnal.com.(http://www.ocnal.com/2018/02/macedonian-prime-zoran-zaev-im-of.html) A site run by Albanians. Even a google search of the quote bares only this site as a reference. It is important to make sure the site you pull your source from has multiple outlets of transmission to support the story. Don't get me wrong, Eastara is a complete delusional person. However, you spreading delusions too, does not help.

ernekar
02-25-2018, 07:55 PM
The news above about Zaev is fake.
If i remember correctly it was just some of Zaev's political opponents who did this article as a joke(because they think he is to pro-albanian).

I think that ocnal website also is a joke made by anti-albanians. For example it has articles about Donald Trump and George Washington being albanian. Haha. I dont think any albanian would post stuff like that, as it just makes us seem plain dumb.

Dibran
03-06-2018, 05:21 PM
The news above about Zaev is fake.
If i remember correctly it was just some of Zaev's political opponents who did this article as a joke(because they think he is to pro-albanian).

I think that ocnal website also is a joke made by anti-albanians. For example it has articles about Donald Trump and George Washington being albanian. Haha. I dont think any albanian would post stuff like that, as it just makes us seem plain dumb.

Yes, but, don't forget, we also have those of our own who actually believe crap like that. The George Washington/Donald Trump thing made me chuckle lolol.

Labėria
03-08-2018, 12:18 PM
Where is the source? the only source that pops up with him "saying this" is ocnalA site run by Albanians. Even a google search of the quote bares only this site as a reference. It is important to make sure the site you pull your source from has multiple outlets of transmission to support the story. Don't get me wrong, Eastara is a complete delusional person. However, you spreading delusions too, does not help.

Yes, the article was from oncal but the source is from Macedonian newspapers. Search in Macedonian newspapers and you will find it, i can not post links for the moments. Just translate the title in Macedonian and you will find it. Just watch the second photo in the article. Personally i don't believe in all this because.....of mathematics. Maybe is fyromski humor or maybe they intend to remove the statue of Alexander The Great and will replace it with the statue of King Bardhyl. I was waiting for an answer from eastara but was you who took the bait.

Kelmendasi
03-22-2018, 04:42 PM
I bought an E-V13 SNP pack yesterday and it also batched yesterday, it is batch 844 iirc and it's expected between April 5th and 12th

rafc
03-22-2018, 06:20 PM
Good choice!

Kelmendasi
05-10-2018, 01:50 PM
The results are in and turns out my uncle is E-V13>CTS5856*. This is interesting as CTS5856 is the father clade of all main downstream of V13 apart from PH1246.

eastara
05-11-2018, 12:27 AM
It seems all E-V13>CTS5856* until now are in fact BY3880*, the third and largest branch under CTS5856. The other two are S3003/L540 and Z16663.

Kelmendasi
05-11-2018, 06:40 AM
It seems all E-V13>CTS5856* until now are in fact BY3880*, the third and largest branch under CTS5856. The other two are S3003/L540 and Z16663.
I guess that there is a chance of him being E-V13>CTS5856>BY3880* as it isn't tested in the SNP pack but I would have to order BigY to be certain

Lupriac
08-26-2018, 03:28 PM
Edit: I found the answer later. Sorry.

Hawk
12-19-2019, 01:49 PM
My maternal side are Berisha, so i think they are E-V13 too.