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lgmayka
02-24-2018, 10:15 PM
Kit 809841, of Filipino patrilineage, was classified as P-P295 by 23andMe. He ordered Y-DNA12 from FTDNA, which then ran a Y-Hap-Backbone test for him. The result was K-M9, but we must remember that for haplogroup P, FTDNA tests M45 which according to ISOGG (https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpP.html) is downstream from P295. ISOGG places P295 at the level of P itself, whereas M45 is P1.

Kit 809841 is therefore likely to belong to what ISOGG calls P2 (P295+ M45-) and says is found in the Philippines.

FTDNA has agreed to reserve a Big Y order for #809841 at the Christmas discount/coupon price of $400. I myself have personally contributed $100 already. The recipient himself can afford only a small contribution. Can we crowdfund this? This early offshoot of P may be very significant in charting the history of P and its children Q and R.

Please make contributions to the Y-DNA Early Branches project (https://www.familytreedna.com/group-general-fund-contribution.aspx?g=Y-DNA_Early). (The page is administered by PayPal but you don't need an account--you can use a credit card directly.) In the Note box, enter "toward Big Y for #809841".

parasar
02-25-2018, 04:33 AM
Thanks lgmayka.
Another $100 in.
So halfway there folk!

lgmayka
02-25-2018, 09:26 PM
Another $100 in.
Safely received by project!

Dubhthach
02-27-2018, 10:03 AM
$100 donation just made

lgmayka
02-27-2018, 03:14 PM
$100 donation just made
Safely received. Thank you! We are now only $40 short of a Big Y! Again, here is the contribution hyperlink (https://www.familytreedna.com/group-general-fund-contribution.aspx?g=Y-DNA_Early).

Petr
02-27-2018, 05:12 PM
Paid.

lgmayka
02-27-2018, 09:53 PM
Paid.
Great! Order has now been paid for, and should go to the lab in Wednesday night's batch.

TuaMan
04-08-2018, 12:34 PM
Any results for this guy yet?

lgmayka
04-08-2018, 02:30 PM
Any results for this guy yet?
Not yet. His account shows the projected date of completion as 05/09/2018 - 05/23/2018.

TuaMan
04-08-2018, 03:05 PM
Not yet. His account shows the projected date of completion as 05/09/2018 - 05/23/2018.

Please keep us posted when you find out the results, definitely interested in learning more about the phylogeny of P and what this particular sample might elucidate therein.

lgmayka
04-14-2018, 11:28 PM
Any results for this guy yet?
His Big Y results have arrived, and YFull has already analyzed his VCF/BED file. For the moment, he has been placed in the K2b category (https://yfull.com/tree/K2b/); but in the next version of YFull's haplotree he should be P*. The P level (https://yfull.com/tree/P/) itself will have to be split (as FTDNA's P tree already illustrates), because he tested positive for P295 and F115 but negative for almost all the rest.

(I am perhaps giving more information than I usually would because his Big Y was crowdfunded.)

TuaMan
04-14-2018, 11:53 PM
So this guy is practically a basal P*? Will the addition of his kit have much of an impact on the age estimates for P?

lgmayka
04-15-2018, 12:52 AM
So this guy is practically a basal P*? Will the addition of his kit have much of an impact on the age estimates for P?
Yes, he is essentially a basal P*. Any impact on age estimates will have to wait until FTDNA resumes generation of BAM files. YFull counts 199 best/acceptable unnamed unshared SNPs from his VCF/BED files; the BAM file will presumably add some more (or perhaps move some of his 97 low-quality SNPs to acceptable).

parasar
04-15-2018, 08:36 PM
His Big Y results have arrived, and YFull has already analyzed his VCF/BED file. For the moment, he has been placed in the K2b category (https://yfull.com/tree/K2b/); but in the next version of YFull's haplotree he should be P*. The P level (https://yfull.com/tree/P/) itself will have to be split (as FTDNA's P tree already illustrates), because he tested positive for P295 and F115 but negative for almost all the rest.

(I am perhaps giving more information than I usually would because his Big Y was crowdfunded.)


Karafet: "we estimate the total time between the common ancestor of K-M9 and that of P-P295 to be <5 ky, and the time between the common ancestor P-P295 and that of P-P27 to be 12.3 ky ... An alternative explanation would involve an extinction event of ancestral P-P295* chromosomes everywhere in Asia. These scenarios are equally parsimonious. They involve either a migration event (P* chromosomes from Indonesia to mainland Asia) or an extinction event of P-P295* paragroup in Eurasia. However, given the geographic distribution of the P331 mutation, the immediate predecessor of P lineage and its likely origin in Southeast Asia/Indonesia, the existing evidence favors the first scenario."

So assuming he is P27-, the split from the rest of R, Q, P27 would be about 40000years back?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xIyCVSPSm3I/U5LqVD5nawI/AAAAAAAACsM/TEjs1OTRu7k/s1600/Karafet-Y-DNA-K-tree-annotated.png
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jPSRG8AsE1Q/U5LtU89W2EI/AAAAAAAACsY/LsgDC0XZLas/s1600/Y-DNA-K-Sundaland.png
http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2177&d=1406861568

parasar
04-15-2018, 08:54 PM
P295xP27 is in Timor and the north Philippines.
So on both side of Wallace's line.

Dubhthach
04-18-2018, 09:24 AM
P295xP27 is in Timor and the north Philippines.
So on both side of Wallace's line.

Wallace line might stop other mammals but it's no match for dug-out canoes though ;)

ATjunior1
05-29-2018, 09:58 PM
BAM File sent to lgmayka and loaded......don't know how long it will take...that file is HUGE!!!

lgmayka
05-29-2018, 10:47 PM
BAM File sent to lgmayka and loaded......don't know how long it will take...that file is HUGE!!!
YFull has stated that hundreds of such BAM files have been submitted since FTDNA resumed generation. I suspect that the backlog will take some time to clear.

Osiris
05-30-2018, 12:04 AM
Since they only get paid once they complete analysis their motivation should be strong. I can't wait to pay them myself for my new submission.

Osiris
06-25-2018, 11:49 PM
I noticed that the sample in K2b at YFULL is no longer italicized but they haven't moved it further down the tree than K2b. Have you attempted to manually verify any of the P SNPs? Of course there's lots of them so it's a long and drawn out task but just curious if anything is happening to see where this fellow's line truely split off from mine.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/K2b/

lgmayka
06-26-2018, 02:54 PM
I noticed that the sample in K2b at YFULL is no longer italicized but they haven't moved it further down the tree than K2b.
The hg38 BAM file has indeed been fully analyzed, at no charge. (YFull graciously offered to cover the cost because of the sample's research significance.) The next iteration of YFull's tree should make the situation clear.