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Pappy
03-05-2018, 02:37 AM
http://ancientnews.net/2017/09/07/humans-present-at-brazils-santa-elina-rock-shelter-23120-years-ago-confirms-national-museum-of-natural-history-in-paris/

Saetro
03-07-2018, 01:40 AM
http://ancientnews.net/2017/09/07/humans-present-at-brazils-santa-elina-rock-shelter-23120-years-ago-confirms-national-museum-of-natural-history-in-paris/

I take the basic report at face value.


Some South American sites once occupied by Stone Age people are closer to the Atlantic coast, raising the possibility of the first colonisation involving a movement of people from Africa.
This comment, however, ignores the need to invent ocean-going sailing and open ocean navigation.
(There may be something on that in the paper. I can't see beyond the pay wall.)

Pappy
03-16-2018, 05:42 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-native-american-origins-dna-20150721-story.html%3foutputType=amp

Squad
03-19-2018, 09:19 AM
It is not the first time an early migration from Africa to America is being proposed. However the distance is pretty large and I find it doubtful that Humans could make this kind of travel 23kya or older. Atlanteans maybe :biggrin1: ?

Kaipiro
12-07-2018, 11:35 PM
It is not the first time an early migration from Africa to America is being proposed. However the distance is pretty large and I find it doubtful that Humans could make this kind of travel 23kya or older. Atlanteans maybe :biggrin1: ?

I've heard once of a castaway fisherman from Cape Verde that arrived to Brazil after nearly 54 days, It's not completely impossible, but unlikely either way taken the year in account.

https://brasil.estadao.com.br/noticias/geral,apos-54-dias-perdido-no-mar--naufrago-de-cabo-verde-chega-em-santos,10000003840
another example:
https://www.cfr.org/blog/west-african-migrants-arrive-brazil-after-weeks-adrift-sea

Milkyway
09-18-2019, 03:23 PM
Some anthropologists don't take these dates as valid, or think that these stones or fires weren't made by humans. Here's a review according to which most Indigenous Americans trace their ancestry to the Clovis people that arrived in South America no earlier than 13,000 YBP. If there were other humans, they either became extinct or didn't make a significant contribution to present-day Amerindians.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618217308029

konian lusitanum
11-16-2019, 08:10 AM
humans only reached Brasil around 12 000 years ago , that is why we call it new world

Milkyway
11-17-2019, 11:50 PM
humans only reached Brasil around 12 000 years ago , that is why we call it new world

We have sites like Monte Verde (https://anthropology.net/2008/05/08/earliest-known-archaeological-evidence-of-americans-found-in-monte-verde-chile/) in Chile that show humans were already present in South America >14,000 YPB (although not all scientists believe these artefacts were made by people). There are also artefacts and hearths in Pedra Furada (Brazil) with Carbon-14 dates of 32,000 to 48,000 YBP but it's unclear if these were made by humans or by natural phenomena. I recently posted a study (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/idaho-site-shows-humans-were-north-america-16000-years-ago-180973024/) that found evidence of human presence in North America by 16,000 years ago.

Milkyway
11-17-2019, 11:51 PM
-duplicated-

RP48
11-18-2019, 12:20 AM
The “Clovis first” position is not supportable. And there’s no need to prove that ocean travel was happening at these early dates. Those are red herring arguments. Evidence is evidence. Accurate dating of human-made artifacts carefully mapped from digs is sufficient. Data is agnostic. It doesn’t depend on belief.

Paradigm-challenging new data does raise new questions but the lack of answers to those questions does not change the data or the conclusions that must be drawn. Human-made artifacts present at a particular time means humans were there at that time.