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misanthropy
03-05-2018, 08:29 AM
Take a look at this link.

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Lactose_intolerance


Lactose intolerance has primarily been linked to SNPs found in the introns of the MCM6 gene which turn out to have some control over the lactase LCT gene located many thousands of base pairs away. These SNPs include:

rs4988235 and rs182549, for which the (T) and (A) alleles, respectively, form a haplotype predicting lactase persistence (thus avoiding lactose intolerance) in 77% of Europeans studied. [PMID 11788828, PMID 15114531]
A different SNP, rs145946881, known as "G/C-14010", appears to be associated with lactase persistence in sub-Saharan African populations. Two other nearby SNPs, rs41380347 "T/G(-13915)" and rs41525747 "C/G(-13907)", are also associated to a lesser degree. [PMID 17159977, PMID 23029545]

From your raw data, post your allele status for the mentioned SNPs. I simply downloaded my 23andme raw data file and opened a text editor to search for the particular SNPs.

Mine:

rs4988235 - not found

rs182549 - CT (can digest milk)

I still have issues with digesting regular milk in moderate amounts, though, which probably started around early college years. I drink lactose-free milk almost every day. No issues with other dairy of course, as they have much lower if any lactose.

poi
03-05-2018, 06:47 PM
Take a look at this link.

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Lactose_intolerance



From your raw data, post your allele status for the mentioned SNPs. I simply downloaded my 23andme raw data file and opened a text editor to search for the particular SNPs.

Mine:

rs4988235 - not found

rs182549 - CT (can digest milk)

I still have issues with digesting regular milk in moderate amounts, though, which probably started around early college years. I drink lactose-free milk almost every day. No issues with other dairy of course, as they have much lower if any lactose.

Oh cool, i will check mine later. I never had issues with cow milk (part of diet along with buffalo milk) and ate probably too much swiss cheese until my early 30s. I have, however stopped drinking cow milk in the past few years as my daughter couldn't digest cow milk protein due to skin rashes when she was an infant. The whole family has switched over to cashew and almond "milk", which we make at home.

ajc347
03-05-2018, 08:24 PM
According to Promethease I have the following results:

rs4988235(T;T)
rs182549(T;T)

I used to be able to digest milk without problem until my mid 20's. Since then I've had a problem digesting dairy products.

This site gives a good account as to why changes can occur with age: https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/lactose-intolerance#inheritance

poi
03-05-2018, 09:41 PM
Woah, I looked up both SNPs for 4 Nepali brahmins for whom I have the raw files.

All 4 have:



rs182549 CC - possibly lactose intolerant
rs4988235 GG(->CC) - likely to be lactose intolerant


Quite surprising because of the use of cow milk in the culture. And nobody I know has issues drinking milk. Could there be more SNPs in effect?

MonkeyDLuffy
03-05-2018, 10:27 PM
Woah, I looked up both SNPs for 4 Nepali brahmins for whom I have the raw files.

All 4 have:



rs182549 CC - possibly lactose intolerant
rs4988235 GG(->CC) - likely to be lactose intolerant


Quite surprising because of the use of cow milk in the culture. And nobody I know has issues drinking milk. Could there be more SNPs in effect?

It shows me slightly intolerant as well on wegenes and 23&me. But I can consume it without any upset stomach. Actually milk is a huge part of my diet, I take whey protein supplement, and around 1-2ltrs of milk a day.

Varun R
03-05-2018, 11:20 PM
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-017-1847-y

'World-wide distributions of lactase persistence alleles and the complex effects of recombination and selection'

Risk Alleles Found in S Asian Populations
-13910 (rs4988235) (C>T)

-13906 T>A

-13779 (G>C) (rs527991977)

-13495 (C>T) (rs4954490)

For W Asians, see also
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/06/lactose-tolerance.html, written by Mfa

poi
03-06-2018, 12:05 AM
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-017-1847-y

'World-wide distributions of lactase persistence alleles and the complex effects of recombination and selection'

Risk Alleles Found in S Asian Populations
-13910 (rs4988235) (C>T)

-13906 T>A

-13779 (G>C) (rs527991977)

-13495 (C>T) (rs4954490)

For W Asians, see also
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/06/lactose-tolerance.html, written by Mfa

Varun, those SNPs don't exist in the list misanthropy posted. Are these the South Asian specific ?

Varun R
03-06-2018, 12:28 AM
Varun, those SNPs don't exist in the list misanthropy posted. Are these the South Asian specific ?

They aren't S Asia specific. -13910 was found in all study populations (Eurasian), -13906 in S and E Asians at low frequencies, -13779 in S Asians and those from the Mid East at low frequencies, -13495 in moderate to high frequencies in all pops. They are taken from a table of derived alleles in the enhancer region of the lactase gene.


It would appear that quite a few variants are under-researched.

poi
03-06-2018, 02:40 AM
They aren't S Asia specific. -13910 was found in all study populations (Eurasian), -13906 in S and E Asians at low frequencies, -13779 in S Asians and those from the Mid East at low frequencies, -13495 in moderate to high frequencies in all pops. They are taken from a table of derived alleles in the enhancer region of the lactase gene.


It would appear that quite a few variants are under-researched.

Yeah, either there are others or we all have been damaging our intestines drinking milk everyday for decades.

khanabadoshi
03-06-2018, 03:04 AM
Funny thing is most of us drink Buffalo milk in South Asia not Cow milk (well at least in Pakistan) -- and Buffalo milk has a higher lactose content than Cow milk. In places like Baltitstan they drink Yak Milk and that is even higher lactose.

Caveat: Lactose increases as you process the milk. So most people don't have problems until > 12 grams. Whole milk usually never crosses 12 grams, and in SA we are usually drinking whole milk. Reduced fat crosses 12 grams, and this is where people may start to have problems. Hence, in the West you may have problems with milk but not back home, because you may not be drinking Whole Cow Milk... but reduced fat.

However, then you should have problems with Yoghurt as well, which is high in lactose, and significantly higher in reduced fat versions --- but you may not be consuming as much yoghurt to reach 13 grams of lactose... so one may think the problem is only with milk. If you want to know if you are really intolerant, eat 13-14 grams of lactose in one sitting and see what happens. Disclaimer: I take no responsibility for what occurs LOL.

Milk– unprocessed cow's milk is about 4.7% lactose; goat's milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goat_milk)4.7%; [51] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-51)sheep's milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep_milk)4.7%; [52] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-52)buffalo milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_milk)4.86%;[53] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-Peeva-53)and yak milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_yak)4.93%.[54] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-54)

JerryS.
03-06-2018, 03:08 AM
funny, I don't need a data program to let me know my lactose tolerance. :biggrin1:

poi
03-06-2018, 03:34 AM
Funny thing is most of us drink Buffalo milk in South Asia not Cow milk (well at least in Pakistan) -- and Buffalo milk has a higher lactose content than Cow milk. In places like Baltitstan they drink Yak Milk and that is even higher lactose.

Caveat: Lactose increases as you process the milk. So most people don't have problems until > 12 grams. Whole milk usually never crosses 12 grams, and in SA we are usually drinking whole milk. Reduced fat crosses 12 grams, and this is where people may start to have problems. Hence, in the West you may have problems with milk but not back home, because you may not be drinking Whole Cow Milk... but reduced fat.

However, then you should have problems with Yoghurt as well, which is high in lactose, and significantly higher in reduced fat versions --- but you may not be consuming as much yoghurt to reach 13 grams of lactose... so one may think the problem is only with milk. If you want to know if you are really intolerant, eat 13-14 grams of lactose in one sitting and see what happens. Disclaimer: I take no responsibility for what occurs LOL.

Milk– unprocessed cow's milk is about 4.7% lactose; goat's milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goat_milk)4.7%; [51] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-51)sheep's milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep_milk)4.7%; [52] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-52)buffalo milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_milk)4.86%;[53] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-Peeva-53)and yak milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_yak)4.93%.[54] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-54)




I think ours was half cow, half buffalo milk overall. The local smalltime milk vendors raised cows, but they always added water to the milk haha. You could tell. You just pay extra so that they wouldn't mix water. Haha

Despite being Nepali, have not had yak milk, lol

Edit: just found out that Greek Yogurt has no lactose.

MonkeyDLuffy
03-06-2018, 04:25 AM
Funny thing is most of us drink Buffalo milk in South Asia not Cow milk (well at least in Pakistan) -- and Buffalo milk has a higher lactose content than Cow milk. In places like Baltitstan they drink Yak Milk and that is even higher lactose.

Caveat: Lactose increases as you process the milk. So most people don't have problems until > 12 grams. Whole milk usually never crosses 12 grams, and in SA we are usually drinking whole milk. Reduced fat crosses 12 grams, and this is where people may start to have problems. Hence, in the West you may have problems with milk but not back home, because you may not be drinking Whole Cow Milk... but reduced fat.

However, then you should have problems with Yoghurt as well, which is high in lactose, and significantly higher in reduced fat versions --- but you may not be consuming as much yoghurt to reach 13 grams of lactose... so one may think the problem is only with milk. If you want to know if you are really intolerant, eat 13-14 grams of lactose in one sitting and see what happens. Disclaimer: I take no responsibility for what occurs LOL.

Milk– unprocessed cow's milk is about 4.7% lactose; goat's milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goat_milk)4.7%; [51] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-51)sheep's milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep_milk)4.7%; [52] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-52)buffalo milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_milk)4.86%;[53] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-Peeva-53)and yak milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_yak)4.93%.[54] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#cite_note-54)




Buffalo milk in all over NW India. I couldn't stand cow milk actually. Buffalo (Majh in punjabi) milk is best tasting, perfectly creamy and doesnt have that Cattle smell to it.

poi
03-06-2018, 06:44 AM
Buffalo milk in all over NW India. I couldn't stand cow milk actually. Buffalo (Majh in punjabi) milk is best tasting, perfectly creamy and doesnt have that Cattle smell to it.

Hated buffalo milk... too sweet. Cattle smell is true though lol

khanabadoshi
03-06-2018, 07:58 AM
Hated buffalo milk... too sweet. Cattle smell is true though lol

Yeah it is considerably sweeter. Took me a while to get used to the taste.

MonkeyDLuffy
03-06-2018, 01:39 PM
Hated buffalo milk... too sweet. Cattle smell is true though lol

I like it because of sweetness lol. I drink a lot of raw milk, so the sweetness helps. Goat's milk has a very off-putting smell as well.

pegasus
03-06-2018, 02:42 PM
Goat milk has a raw leathery overtone and goat cheese has that issue as well but I am used to it . Buffalo milk consumption in South Asia easily probably dates to Eneolithic because in the Bronze Age, the IVC was exporting buffalos in large numbers to Mesopotamia (Iraq), where people to this day mostly drink buffalo milk. I like dairy milk from cows and the scent of dairy milk.

poi
03-06-2018, 02:48 PM
Goat milk has a raw leathery overtone and goat cheese has that issue as well but I am used to it . Buffalo milk consumption in South Asia easily probably dates to Eneolithic because in the Bronze Age, the IVC was exporting buffalos in large numbers to Mesopotamia (Iraq), where people to this day mostly drink buffalo milk. I like dairy milk from cows and the scent of dairy milk.

Isn't mozzarella cheese made from water buffalo milk?

khanabadoshi
03-06-2018, 03:01 PM
Isn't mozzarella cheese made from water buffalo milk?

I believe it is. Source: Intense cheese debate at work.

Bollox79
03-06-2018, 03:11 PM
Hmm interesting thread ;-). I am American... here is my autosomal map to give you an idea of my overall (with admixture of course) make up etc... I drink a lot of dairy cow milk over here in the States... since I've been a kid and since I've grown up (I'm 38) I have LOVED chocolate milk so drank a ton of that with my Dad every night. I drink a lot of milk in my protein shakes and just in general as I like it for the protein content. I love the taste of the whole milk more... reduced fat is ok, but I make myself drink the skim milk since I drink so much of it I don't want all that saturated fat from the whole stuff... some is ok, but not in the amount I'm drinking (gallon every two days perhaps). Never had any issues with it... even on top of eating a lot of cheese on top of that milk etc... great source of protein!! I would be interested in trying the other milks you guys are talking about! 21959

Tirunelvi
03-06-2018, 08:15 PM
Intolerant to all types of dairy as soon as I reached adulthood.
rs4988235- C;C
rs182549- C;C

poi
03-06-2018, 08:58 PM
Intolerant to all types of dairy as soon as I reached adulthood.
rs4988235- C;C
rs182549- C;C

Do you get physically sick after dairy? Any amount or certain amount?

I have the same SNP profile as you (based on those 2 SNPs), but can eat dairy(cheese, including processed crap cheese, yogurt, skim/whole milk etc). I always assumed I (and everybody I knew) was lactose tolerant until these SNP markers indicated otherwise. My daughter does have cow milk protein allergy, but not after you boil it and the protein has broken down I suppose.

Anyway, it has been 2 years I have had straight raw milk, so I will try that tonight. Khana, would 12 ounce of skim milk be enough to tell you whether or not your lactose tolerant? If I stop posting messages, just assume that the lactose got me. lol

JerryS.
03-07-2018, 01:38 AM
pasteurized homogenized. no right from the udder for me.

poi
03-07-2018, 01:47 AM
pasteurized homogenized. no right from the udder for me.

The udder test will be the ultimate lactose tolerant test.

khanabadoshi
03-07-2018, 05:52 AM
The udder test will be the ultimate lactose tolerant test.

Half my cousins drink it straight from the udder. I, being civilized, drink straight from the bucket that is under the udder.
PS: Breast milk has more lactose than any bovine milk ... so I assume we've all passed the "udder test" at some point LOL.

khanabadoshi
03-07-2018, 06:07 AM
Do you get physically sick after dairy? Any amount or certain amount?

I have the same SNP profile as you (based on those 2 SNPs), but can eat dairy(cheese, including processed crap cheese, yogurt, skim/whole milk etc). I always assumed I (and everybody I knew) was lactose tolerant until these SNP markers indicated otherwise. My daughter does have cow milk protein allergy, but not after you boil it and the protein has broken down I suppose.

Anyway, it has been 2 years I have had straight raw milk, so I will try that tonight. Khana, would 12 ounce of skim milk be enough to tell you whether or not your lactose tolerant? If I stop posting messages, just assume that the lactose got me. lol

I don't know. You actually have to look it up by company/brand, because it does vary. There are ranges:



Fluid Milks
Range
Average


Regular Whole Milk
3.7-5.1%
4.8%


2% Lowfat Milk
3.7-5.3%
4.9%


1% Lowfat Milk
4.8-5.5%
5.0%


Nonfat (Skim) Milk
4.3-5.7%
5.2%


Chocolate Milk
4.1-4.9%
5.0%


Half-and-half
4.0-4.3%
4.2%


Light Cream
3.7-4.0%
3.9%


Whipping Cream
2.8-3.0%
2.9%


70% Lactose-reduced Milk

1.6%


80% Lactose-reduced Milk

1.1%


100% Lactose-reduced Milk
0.0-0.5%






Cultured Milk Products
Range
Average


Sour Cream
3.0-4.3%
3.9%


Buttermilk
3.6-5.0%
4.3%


Yogurt, commercial lowfat
1.9-6.0%



Yogurt, commercial whole milk
4.1-4.7%



Sweet Acidophilus Milk

4.4%


Kefir, commercial part-skim

4.0%



So let's assume 5% Lactose content in your skim milk -- 13 grams = 0.4395 fl oz. So 8.79 fl oz. of Skim Milk should be enough to get 13 grams of Lactose if the content is 5%.
12 fl oz. should be more than enough.

Good luck.

poi
03-07-2018, 07:05 AM
I don't know. You actually have to look it up by company/brand, because it does vary. There are ranges:



Fluid Milks
Range
Average


Regular Whole Milk
3.7-5.1%
4.8%


2% Lowfat Milk
3.7-5.3%
4.9%


1% Lowfat Milk
4.8-5.5%
5.0%


Nonfat (Skim) Milk
4.3-5.7%
5.2%


Chocolate Milk
4.1-4.9%
5.0%


Half-and-half
4.0-4.3%
4.2%


Light Cream
3.7-4.0%
3.9%


Whipping Cream
2.8-3.0%
2.9%


70% Lactose-reduced Milk

1.6%


80% Lactose-reduced Milk

1.1%


100% Lactose-reduced Milk
0.0-0.5%






Cultured Milk Products
Range
Average


Sour Cream
3.0-4.3%
3.9%


Buttermilk
3.6-5.0%
4.3%


Yogurt, commercial lowfat
1.9-6.0%



Yogurt, commercial whole milk
4.1-4.7%



Sweet Acidophilus Milk

4.4%


Kefir, commercial part-skim

4.0%



So let's assume 5% Lactose content in your skim milk -- 13 grams = 0.4395 fl oz. So 8.79 fl oz. of Skim Milk should be enough to get 13 grams of Lactose if the content is 5%.
12 fl oz. should be more than enough.

Good luck.

It's been a few hours for me and no adverse reaction yet.

poi
03-07-2018, 04:32 PM
I can officially say that I am completely lactose tolerant. No side effect and it has been over 10 hours. But downing that much skim milk was just disgusting. Almond milk is much more tasty without the 'cattle smell' lol. I think I am partially vegan now. I still love to grill chicken though.

khanabadoshi
03-07-2018, 07:35 PM
I can officially say that I am completely lactose tolerant. No side effect and it has been over 10 hours. But downing that much skim milk was just disgusting. Almond milk is much more tasty without the 'cattle smell' lol. I think I am partially vegan now. I still love to grill chicken though.

Welcome to the team! LOL.

MonkeyDLuffy
03-07-2018, 08:51 PM
Full fat buffalo milk is how I roll but can't get that in Canada.

lgmayka
03-08-2018, 04:35 PM
PS: Breast milk has more lactose than any bovine milk ... so I assume we've all passed the "udder test" at some point LOL.
No. For decades, American mothers were told not to breast-feed their children, but rather to use infant formula (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_formula)--typically, modifiied cow's milk. Some statistics (https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/131/2/409S/4686955#FN1):
---
During the 1950s and 1960s, the trend in breast-feeding was steadily downward, and by the early 1970s, only ∼25% of infants were breast-fed at age 1 wk and only 14% between 2 and 3 mo of age (Fig. 3).
---

American mothers were then told to wean their children off infant formula as quickly as possible (as early as 4 months), and onto baby food (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_food). Of course, both infant formula and baby food cost $$$.

The old version of 23andMe pointed out that for people who have particular (rather common) genetic mutations, breastfeeding raises IQ. Here is an article about one of the two such mutations (https://medicalxpress.com/news/2007-11-gene-iq-boost-breastfeeding.html). So to put it bluntly, many mothers who refused to breast-feed were effectively "dumbing down" their children. :(

poi
03-08-2018, 05:52 PM
No. For decades, American mothers were told not to breast-feed their children, but rather to use infant formula (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_formula)--typically, modifiied cow's milk. Some statistics (https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/131/2/409S/4686955#FN1):
---
During the 1950s and 1960s, the trend in breast-feeding was steadily downward, and by the early 1970s, only ∼25% of infants were breast-fed at age 1 wk and only 14% between 2 and 3 mo of age (Fig. 3).
---

American mothers were then told to wean their children off infant formula as quickly as possible (as early as 4 months), and onto baby food (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_food). Of course, both infant formula and baby food cost $$$.

The old version of 23andMe pointed out that for people who have particular (rather common) genetic mutations, breastfeeding raises IQ. Here is an article about one of the two such mutations (https://medicalxpress.com/news/2007-11-gene-iq-boost-breastfeeding.html). So to put it bluntly, many mothers who refused to breast-feed were effectively "dumbing down" their children. :(

Can't beat 50 million years of mammalian evolution with the formula, despite added DHA.

misanthropy
03-09-2018, 06:49 AM
Just pulled this up on my WeGene:


rs182549 MCM6 CT

Lactose metabolism ability

rs4988235 MCM6 AG

Lactose metabolism ability

I wonder which of my parents side is responsible, because lactase persistence is atypical for South Indians.

The LCT gene and its associated modulating SNPs are on chromosome 2.

Not sure how accurate, but this is my 23andme chromosome 2 painting at 50% speculative (default). Orange = "South Asian"; Blue = "Middle Eastern" Smaller blue = Broadly European
https://i.imgur.com/UhmLoLd.png

This is where the LCT gene is located on chromosome 2
https://i.imgur.com/iDGxbQP.png

It probably is a whole can of worms to open though. I gotta sleep, don't have time for this now lol

misanthropy
09-02-2018, 03:06 AM
With the wet/dry ear wax thread, would like to see more results for this as well.

discreetmaverick
02-11-2021, 10:22 PM
SNP's


rs4988235 GG

rs182549 CC

rs145946881 CC

rs41380347 AA

rs41525747 GG

rs869051967 Not Found

rs4954490 Not Found



https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4988235

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs182549

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs145946881

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs41380347

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs41525747

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs869051967

http://pdgene.org/view?poly=rs4954490


Result: Lactose intolerant based on these SNP's available, are there other SNP/'s that have been identified for lactase persistence?

subzero85
02-13-2021, 03:47 AM
rs4988235 - GG
rs182549 - CC

lana6765
02-13-2021, 04:22 AM
Little confused here:

"In northern Europe, the GG genotype of the rs4988235 SNP in and the CC genotype of the rs182549 SNPwere identified as causal for lactose intolerance. In North Africa and the Middle East, a different set of alleles are associated with lactose intolerance: CC for rs145946881, AA for rs41380347 and GG for rs41525747."

CC - rs145946881, AA - rs41380347, GG - rs41525747 - I have all these variants :confused: But are these not associated with lactose intolerance in Europeans?

Bbgum
02-13-2021, 05:13 AM
Little confused here:

"In northern Europe, the GG genotype of the rs4988235 SNP in and the CC genotype of the rs182549 SNPwere identified as causal for lactose intolerance. In North Africa and the Middle East, a different set of alleles are associated with lactose intolerance: CC for rs145946881, AA for rs41380347 and GG for rs41525747."

CC - rs145946881, AA - rs41380347, GG - rs41525747 - I have all these variants :confused: But are these not associated with lactose intolerance in Europeans?

I think those are only associated with isolated tribes in the middle east and east africa. For the vast majority of people the gg/cc from the other two predict it

I also remember reading somewhere that was due to the eurasian bottleneck and lower genetic diversity.

lana6765
02-13-2021, 11:56 AM
I think those are only associated with isolated tribes in the middle east and east africa. For the vast majority of people the gg/cc from the other two predict it

I also remember reading somewhere that was due to the eurasian bottleneck and lower genetic diversity.

I understand, thanks. :)