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Jaclyn
03-10-2018, 09:40 AM
So long story short (lol) . . . . . .

I had my DNA tested through Ancestry’s website a couple years ago. I recently learned about all of my Danish relatives on both sides of my family—mostly my mother’s side—and wanted to look at my pie chart again. I know that MANY people of European ancestry (like me) wonder if they have Viking blood. I’ve been researching this subject like mad and have come to the conclusion that my paper trail on both sides proves that I definitely do. However, my “DNA test” from Ancestry seems to suggest otherwise. >:(

Here is what my pie chart says: Europe West 46%, Great Britain 44%, Ireland 5%, Finland 3%, Scandinavia <1% and Italy/Greece <1%.

I have NO clue where Finland came from—I have NO Finnish ancestors. And I was stunned that I am LESS THAN 1% Scandinavian. I know that I inherit 50% randomly from each of my parents, but really?! By the way, I do have a decent amount of German (mainly around the Mannheim area) on both sides of my family. I have Irish and Scottish here and there too.

Seeing as how DNA testing is fairly new and half the time it doesn’t match people’s paper trails, I don’t look at DNA results as 100% accurate—nor should anyone. I found this article from Science Nordic (2017), which I thought could explain things; apparently, the Danes made a bigger impact on Britain than previously thought. I wish I could post it!

Could I have more Danish than I realize? Is it possible that some of the Scandinavian DNA got mistaken for Great Britain DNA? That seems the most plausible. Seeing as how Vikings were in all of the countries where my DNA is found, I feel that I can build a strong case that I have Danish/Viking/Scandinavian blood. Most of my English ancestors (on both sides) are in the most concentrated areas where geneticists found Scandinavian DNA! If you can find Ancestry's article called, "The Viking In The Room," you can find a color-coded map showing Scandinavian influence in Great Britain. There is an “L” shape where it is the darkest shades of red--that is where most of my British ancestors were!

Please be kind with your comments. I’m not trying to find something that isn’t there. Rather, I’m trying to find the “hidden.” THANK YOU for reading this insanely long post!

Jaclyn

Geborgenheit
03-10-2018, 09:51 AM
The percentage from Europe West could indicate Danish ancestry as well, especially because Danes are the closest to Germans among all Scandinavians. So you can perfectly have more Danish ancestry than this test indicates.

03-10-2018, 10:06 AM
So long story short (lol) . . . . . .

I had my DNA tested through Ancestry’s website a couple years ago. I recently learned about all of my Danish relatives on both sides of my family—mostly my mother’s side—and wanted to look at my pie chart again. I know that MANY people of European ancestry (like me) wonder if they have Viking blood. I’ve been researching this subject like mad and have come to the conclusion that my paper trail on both sides proves that I definitely do. However, my “DNA test” from Ancestry seems to suggest otherwise. >:(

Here is what my pie chart says: Europe West 46%, Great Britain 44%, Ireland 5%, Finland 3%, Scandinavia <1% and Italy/Greece <1%.

I have NO clue where Finland came from—I have NO Finnish ancestors. And I was stunned that I am LESS THAN 1% Scandinavian. I know that I inherit 50% randomly from each of my parents, but really?! By the way, I do have a decent amount of German (mainly around the Mannheim area) on both sides of my family. I have Irish and Scottish here and there too.

Seeing as how DNA testing is fairly new and half the time it doesn’t match people’s paper trails, I don’t look at DNA results as 100% accurate—nor should anyone. I found this article from Science Nordic (2017), which I thought could explain things; apparently, the Danes made a bigger impact on Britain than previously thought. I wish I could post it!

Could I have more Danish than I realize? Is it possible that some of the Scandinavian DNA got mistaken for Great Britain DNA? That seems the most plausible. Seeing as how Vikings were in all of the countries where my DNA is found, I feel that I can build a strong case that I have Danish/Viking/Scandinavian blood. Most of my English ancestors (on both sides) are in the most concentrated areas where geneticists found Scandinavian DNA! If you can find Ancestry's article called, "The Viking In The Room," you can find a color-coded map showing Scandinavian influence in Great Britain. There is an “L” shape where it is the darkest shades of red--that is where most of my British ancestors were!

Please be kind with your comments. I’m not trying to find something that isn’t there. Rather, I’m trying to find the “hidden.” THANK YOU for reading this insanely long post!

Jaclyn

Why don’t you download your results raw file, and upload it to other sites, to see how the other sites analyze it. e.g My heritage, Gedmatch, Genecove, LivingDNA, etc. just to get different perspectives.

ajc347
03-10-2018, 10:20 AM
I'd add the calculators at Geneplaza, FTDNA and the report on Gedmatch K36 results to the list as well. They're low cost options which can provide a wealth of extra information.

There's also DNA Tribes, 24 Genetics and GPS Origins. They're considerably more expensive but do offer some potentially interesting alternatives to the standard Ancestry report.

evon
03-10-2018, 01:12 PM
So long story short (lol) . . . . . .

I had my DNA tested through Ancestry’s website a couple years ago. I recently learned about all of my Danish relatives on both sides of my family—mostly my mother’s side—and wanted to look at my pie chart again. I know that MANY people of European ancestry (like me) wonder if they have Viking blood. I’ve been researching this subject like mad and have come to the conclusion that my paper trail on both sides proves that I definitely do. However, my “DNA test” from Ancestry seems to suggest otherwise. >:(

Here is what my pie chart says: Europe West 46%, Great Britain 44%, Ireland 5%, Finland 3%, Scandinavia <1% and Italy/Greece <1%.

I have NO clue where Finland came from—I have NO Finnish ancestors. And I was stunned that I am LESS THAN 1% Scandinavian. I know that I inherit 50% randomly from each of my parents, but really?! By the way, I do have a decent amount of German (mainly around the Mannheim area) on both sides of my family. I have Irish and Scottish here and there too.

Seeing as how DNA testing is fairly new and half the time it doesn’t match people’s paper trails, I don’t look at DNA results as 100% accurate—nor should anyone. I found this article from Science Nordic (2017), which I thought could explain things; apparently, the Danes made a bigger impact on Britain than previously thought. I wish I could post it!

Could I have more Danish than I realize? Is it possible that some of the Scandinavian DNA got mistaken for Great Britain DNA? That seems the most plausible. Seeing as how Vikings were in all of the countries where my DNA is found, I feel that I can build a strong case that I have Danish/Viking/Scandinavian blood. Most of my English ancestors (on both sides) are in the most concentrated areas where geneticists found Scandinavian DNA! If you can find Ancestry's article called, "The Viking In The Room," you can find a color-coded map showing Scandinavian influence in Great Britain. There is an “L” shape where it is the darkest shades of red--that is where most of my British ancestors were!

Please be kind with your comments. I’m not trying to find something that isn’t there. Rather, I’m trying to find the “hidden.” THANK YOU for reading this insanely long post!

Jaclyn

Unless you managed to time travel back in time and actually went on a Viking raid, you are not a Viking. The more correct label is Dane (norse for people from what is modern day Norway, and other terms for people from modern day Sweden etc) which was used during the Viking age, as it is today.

With regards to the admixture results, Danish ancestry is often mislabeled as UK/Irish and western European, in admixture calculations. This is because there is so little gene variations among the peoples living around the north sea, that it is more or less impossible to separate them, from each other using conventional admixture calculations. Another thing to keep in mind is that Danes have allot of German ancestry, as well as Norwegian to a lesser degree (so you might have some, or even allot of German DNA via Danish ancestry). This is because Germans and Norwegians have migrated to Denmark in large numbers through out modern history, and as an example, some stages of Danish history are marked by the huge influx of Germans (especially the 1700's).

Helgenes50
03-10-2018, 01:30 PM
Unless you managed to time travel back in time and actually went on a Viking raid, you are not a Viking. The more correct label is Dane (norse for people from what is modern day Norway, and other terms for people from modern day Sweden etc) which was used during the Viking age, as it is today.


Evon,
Do you know the correct term for people from Sweden of the Viking age ?
Not those of Skane who were Danes, of course !

evon
03-10-2018, 02:00 PM
Evon,
Do you know the correct term for people from Sweden of the Viking age ?
Not those of Skane who were Danes, of course !

I am far from an expert on Swedish history, but I think they used multiple terms for people from various regions. Such as Gotlanders, Svea, etc...

Bas
03-10-2018, 02:56 PM
...Seeing as how DNA testing is fairly new and half the time it doesn’t match people’s paper trails, I don’t look at DNA results as 100% accurate—nor should anyone.

I can't really add much to Evon's great reply but I think the thing is that it isn't that DNA tests are not accurate (I guess nothing can ever be 100% accurate) it's more a case of how they are interpreted. DNA tests get a really bad rep from people because of this. The stuff like Finnish, Italy/Greece almost every European will have these and it doesn't literally mean Finnish or Italian/Greek ancestors.

The key is to compare your results of someone from the same ethnicity and see where the differences lie. There are also other calculators as others have said and with a few of these run, it should be quite easy to nail down your ancestry to quite a specific area, which is quite amazing I think.

kikkk
03-10-2018, 04:18 PM
You may upload your data to gedmatch and look for possible Scandinavian relatives

Jaclyn
03-10-2018, 10:50 PM
WOW. Thank you all so much for the replies! I will def check out these other sites and try and upload my results to a few to see how THEY interpret the data. :)

Jaclyn
03-10-2018, 11:01 PM
Unless you managed to time travel back in time and actually went on a Viking raid, you are not a Viking. The more correct label is Dane (norse for people from what is modern day Norway, and other terms for people from modern day Sweden etc) which was used during the Viking age, as it is today.

With regards to the admixture results, Danish ancestry is often mislabeled as UK/Irish and western European, in admixture calculations. This is because there is so little gene variations among the peoples living around the north sea, that it is more or less impossible to separate them, from each other using conventional admixture calculations. Another thing to keep in mind is that Danes have allot of German ancestry, as well as Norwegian to a lesser degree (so you might have some, or even allot of German DNA via Danish ancestry). This is because Germans and Norwegians have migrated to Denmark in large numbers through out modern history, and as an example, some stages of Danish history are marked by the huge influx of Germans (especially the 1700's).

From my research, I've also come to that conclusion as well--just that Danish ancestry is thrown into UK/Ireland/Germany. It only makes sense. But those blasted DNA tests make everything more complicated sometimes! It is also VERY interesting how close Germans and Danes really are DNA-wise. And then there's the migrations of the Anglo-Saxons (who were almost identical to Vikings) to Great Britain. Fascinating stuff, for sure.

There is such a ridiculous amount of overlap with all of my ethnicities........no wonder my results were confusing. :P

Goodman
03-10-2018, 11:09 PM
deleted.

Jaclyn
03-13-2018, 11:04 PM
So I sent my AncestryDNA results to My Heritage, Gencove and Gedmatch!!!

GENCOVE:
36% N British Isles
35% SCANDINAVIA (WOOHOO!)
12% Eastern Mediterranean (Weird percentage. :P)
9% SW Europe
3% Northern/Central Europe
3% NE Europe

MY HERITAGE:
81% NW European (I don't have THAT much German. Maybe more Danish???)
4.5% Scandinavian
3.2% English (I have more English than that.)
9% Baltic (WHAT?!)
2% Africa (Highly doubt that percentage.)

As for Gedmatch, I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to interpret all of the different "matrixes", if you will. I know that the spreadsheet is a reference guide, but I just don't know HOW to use it.

That's where you all come in.........................how do I interpret these different pie charts WITH the spreadsheet to find my Danish/Scandinavian heritage?

THANK YOU in advance! :D

greerpalmer
03-13-2018, 11:12 PM
I would caution you not to assume being Danish and being Viking are the same thing. The viking era stretched from the 8th to the 11th century, leaving lots, and lots of time for your ancestors to move into an area. It should also be noted that many people report AncestryDNA actually overestimates Scandinavian, so I'd be weary that you get so little. I have most of my family lines traced back to the 1500s (Irish, Cornish, Scottish, Bavarian, Palatinate and Pomeranian) and Ancestry gives me 33% Scandinavian-- all other estimate me at under 4%.

spruithean
03-13-2018, 11:50 PM
Unless you managed to time travel back in time and actually went on a Viking raid, you are not a Viking. The more correct label is Dane (norse for people from what is modern day Norway, and other terms for people from modern day Sweden etc) which was used during the Viking age, as it is today.

With regards to the admixture results, Danish ancestry is often mislabeled as UK/Irish and western European, in admixture calculations. This is because there is so little gene variations among the peoples living around the north sea, that it is more or less impossible to separate them, from each other using conventional admixture calculations. Another thing to keep in mind is that Danes have allot of German ancestry, as well as Norwegian to a lesser degree (so you might have some, or even allot of German DNA via Danish ancestry). This is because Germans and Norwegians have migrated to Denmark in large numbers through out modern history, and as an example, some stages of Danish history are marked by the huge influx of Germans (especially the 1700's).

I can echo this post. Adding to this, we can't totally rely on ethnicity estimates to define ourselves.

Jaclyn
03-14-2018, 02:08 AM
I would caution you not to assume being Danish and being Viking are the same thing. The viking era stretched from the 8th to the 11th century, leaving lots, and lots of time for your ancestors to move into an area. It should also be noted that many people report AncestryDNA actually overestimates Scandinavian, so I'd be weary that you get so little. I have most of my family lines traced back to the 1500s (Irish, Cornish, Scottish, Bavarian, Palatinate and Pomeranian) and Ancestry gives me 33% Scandinavian-- all other estimate me at under 4%.

Okay...

But what test should I be trusting more?

I'm starting to learn that DNA results depend on the company itself and how they interpret the DNA data. For example, Ancestry says that I have less than 1% Scandinavian, My Heritage says 4.5% and Gencove says I have 35%.

And I know now that Danish doesn't always equal Viking...but I'd at least like to know how much Danish I supposedly have. If you or someone could help me interpret the data I see on Gedmatch (and comparing it to their "spreadsheet"), I would appreciate it. I'm not completely sure what I'm looking for.

I guess I should sell that Danish Thor's Hammer I bought a few weeks ago. :P

03-14-2018, 12:44 PM
Okay...

But what test should I be trusting more?

I'm starting to learn that DNA results depend on the company itself and how they interpret the DNA data. For example, Ancestry says that I have less than 1% Scandinavian, My Heritage says 4.5% and Gencove says I have 35%.

And I know now that Danish doesn't always equal Viking...but I'd at least like to know how much Danish I supposedly have. If you or someone could help me interpret the data I see on Gedmatch (and comparing it to their "spreadsheet"), I would appreciate it. I'm not completely sure what I'm looking for.

I guess I should sell that Danish Thor's Hammer I bought a few weeks ago. :P

I think, if you have ancestors who came from UK or Ireland, the chances are that, you probably have at least some "Viking" ancestors, even if that dna has been bred out or not.
Dark age / Medieval Britain and Ireland, like many other places was a mixing pot of Britons, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, Picts, Scots, Irish, Danish Vikings, Norwegian, Vikings, then Normans, Flemish, Bretons, maybe others, to one extent or another.

Edward J
03-14-2018, 12:56 PM
An interesting take. "Constructing Masculinity through Genetic Legacies: Family Histories, Y-Chromosomes, and “Viking Identities”
http://www.mdpi.com/2313-5778/2/1/8/htm

spruithean
03-14-2018, 08:41 PM
Okay...

But what test should I be trusting more?

I'm starting to learn that DNA results depend on the company itself and how they interpret the DNA data. For example, Ancestry says that I have less than 1% Scandinavian, My Heritage says 4.5% and Gencove says I have 35%.

And I know now that Danish doesn't always equal Viking...but I'd at least like to know how much Danish I supposedly have. If you or someone could help me interpret the data I see on Gedmatch (and comparing it to their "spreadsheet"), I would appreciate it. I'm not completely sure what I'm looking for.

I guess I should sell that Danish Thor's Hammer I bought a few weeks ago. :P

What does your paper trail reveal? How many ancestors in your recent family tree (10 generations) are from Denmark?

Jaclyn
03-14-2018, 09:36 PM
What does your paper trail reveal? How many ancestors in your recent family tree (10 generations) are from Denmark?

That is quite a ways back, but I know I should start searching further into the past and build that family tree!

I looked back as far as I could on both sides (about the mid 1700s) and it looks like I definitely have 14 on my mom and dad's sides. I'm assuming from those people that their parents were born in Denmark too. Their last names are a dead giveaway. :P So I could probably say I have at least 30 on both sides, up until the mid-1700s, anyway. There is probably a lot more the further back I go. My great great? grandmother's tree hasn't been built yet (on my dad's side) and her last name ends with "sen", so I could add another good amount of Danes!

I need to ask my brother how to go about adding more members to the tree--he is letting me use his Ancestry account and I'm a little new on how to do it. hehe

sktibo
03-14-2018, 09:48 PM
So on the topic of Ancestry DNA - specifically the Western Europe category, what we have is a very poorly assembled set of references jammed into one category and I think your result may indicate just how poorly done this actually is.
22107

So you see the yellow markers represent Western Europe in Ancestry's test - and man are they in a lot of places: Belgium and the Netherlands, France, every region of Germany, and it looks like some markers might be making it over the border into Southern Denmark too. These regions that Ancestry has grouped together aren't really related and I think it was quite a long time ago that their test was updated. We know that for example, Northern Germany and Southern Germany aren't close genetically (IN TERMS OF NORTHERN EUROPEAN GROUPS) and they've been shoved into the same category. This Western Europe category has such a wide variety of different genetic groups packed into it that I think two people can get high Western Europe scores on Ancestry and on another test won't show to be similar at all.

Try Lucasz's K36 analysis and see where that places you.

msmarjoribanks
03-15-2018, 12:27 AM
Okay...

But what test should I be trusting more?

I'm starting to learn that DNA results depend on the company itself and how they interpret the DNA data. For example, Ancestry says that I have less than 1% Scandinavian, My Heritage says 4.5% and Gencove says I have 35%.

And I know now that Danish doesn't always equal Viking...but I'd at least like to know how much Danish I supposedly have. If you or someone could help me interpret the data I see on Gedmatch (and comparing it to their "spreadsheet"), I would appreciate it. I'm not completely sure what I'm looking for.

I guess I should sell that Danish Thor's Hammer I bought a few weeks ago. :P

I know it's frustrating, but it varies person to person, and the paper trail will tell you more when it comes to overlapping ethnicities like this.

I get it, my own is quite similar: English, Swedish, Welsh, Irish, Scottish, German, and a little Dutch and French. I have some idea of the likely percentages and tested my mother and father, which helps some (for example, I know my mother is around a quarter Swedish, and I don't think my dad is at all, unless he has Viking ancestors by way of the British Isles or France (which of course could be)), but I get wacky and quite different results from different tests.

Ancestry has me as 4% Great Britain (totally off), 28% Scandinavian (too high), 42% Europe West (sure, whatever, most of my ethnicities would fit), 19% Irish, Scots, Welsh (this one isn't so bad).

LOTS of people with very little English ancestry get high GB at ancestry, it seems to sometimes classify Scandinavian and German as such. I have the opposite issue, since a majority of my ancestors were English, and yet Ancestry (unlike the rest) seems to think it's a low confidence region. It's just hard to classify mixes, especially when the source populations are mixes too.

FTDNA, by contrast, has me as 83% British Isles and 14% Eastern European (I don't have any Eastern European to my knowledge).

MyHeritage ends up being my happy medium and the best match (although we seem to all get the 2% Nigerian that shows up nowhere else for me), but for many others it seems to be the farthest off.

Gedmatch is fun. If you have immigrant ancestors recent enough to have matches in other countries, that's fun too. My mother has a number of Swedish matches at FTDNA (glad I tested her, since they don't match me), and I did get a Welsh match at ancestry.

A Norfolk L-M20
03-15-2018, 01:09 AM
We have historical evidence of the Danes in England, such as the Anglo Saxon Chronicles.

We have place-name and linguistic evidence of the Danes in England. Here's one such cluster of -by place-names in East Anglia:

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12805&d=1480505296

We have archaeology of the Danes in England - but they quickly disappear from the archaeological trail. The hypothesis is, that they were so similar in many ways to the Anglo-Saxons living here. Once they converted to Christianity, they simply blended in. After all, the home of the Angles (as in Anglia), was Schweig Holstein, right up against the modern border of Denmark. Compare the ship burial of Sutton Hoo here in East Anglia, to the later Viking Ship Burials.

Genetic studies so far have been unable to distinguish Danish ancestry in England. POBI (Peopling of the British Isles) only found convincing evidence of the Vikings in modern Orcadian families. However, critics since have pointed out that Orkney was settled by Norwegian Vikings. The Danish were simply too much alike to Anglo Saxons to differentiate. We know from the above forms of evidence that they settled here. Early Medieval Danish farmers and traders. A study of Anglo Saxon DNA at Cambridgeshire, compared modern populations to a number of AS remains from local cemeteries, and reported that the modern populations most like them were the Dutch and Danish.

If you have both recent Danish, and Eastern English ancestry, I think that you can safely assume that you would have had some rural pagan Danish ancestors during the 9th and 10th centuries AD. If you wish, consider them "Viking".

Jaclyn
03-15-2018, 07:16 AM
We have historical evidence of the Danes in England, such as the Anglo Saxon Chronicles.

We have place-name and linguistic evidence of the Danes in England. Here's one such cluster of -by place-names in East Anglia:

We have archaeology of the Danes in England - but they quickly disappear from the archaeological trail. The hypothesis is, that they were so similar in many ways to the Anglo-Saxons living here. Once they converted to Christianity, they simply blended in. After all, the home of the Angles (as in Anglia), was Schweig Holstein, right up against the modern border of Denmark. Compare the ship burial of Sutton Hoo here in East Anglia, to the later Viking Ship Burials.

Genetic studies so far have been unable to distinguish Danish ancestry in England. POBI (Peopling of the British Isles) only found convincing evidence of the Vikings in modern Orcadian families. However, critics since have pointed out that Orkney was settled by Norwegian Vikings. The Danish were simply too much alike to Anglo Saxons to differentiate. We know from the above forms of evidence that they settled here. Early Medieval Danish farmers and traders. A study of Anglo Saxon DNA at Cambridgeshire, compared modern populations to a number of AS remains from local cemeteries, and reported that the modern populations most like them were the Dutch and Danish.

If you have both recent Danish, and Eastern English ancestry, I think that you can safely assume that you would have had some rural pagan Danish ancestors during the 9th and 10th centuries AD. If you wish, consider them "Viking".

Thank you for all that info! I agree completely with that analysis. Even though I might not be able to find specific ancestors who were Vikings, I sure have more Danish than I realize. I'm just so fascinated with the fact that it is near impossible to separate English from Danish and even German DNA--whoah. I guess I could say I'm half-Danish/Anglo-Saxon, technically. :D

Genetics and history are so intriguing!

JohnHowellsTyrfro
03-15-2018, 08:29 AM
We have historical evidence of the Danes in England, such as the Anglo Saxon Chronicles.

We have place-name and linguistic evidence of the Danes in England. Here's one such cluster of -by place-names in East Anglia:

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12805&d=1480505296

We have archaeology of the Danes in England - but they quickly disappear from the archaeological trail. The hypothesis is, that they were so similar in many ways to the Anglo-Saxons living here. Once they converted to Christianity, they simply blended in. After all, the home of the Angles (as in Anglia), was Schweig Holstein, right up against the modern border of Denmark. Compare the ship burial of Sutton Hoo here in East Anglia, to the later Viking Ship Burials.

Genetic studies so far have been unable to distinguish Danish ancestry in England. POBI (Peopling of the British Isles) only found convincing evidence of the Vikings in modern Orcadian families. However, critics since have pointed out that Orkney was settled by Norwegian Vikings. The Danish were simply too much alike to Anglo Saxons to differentiate. We know from the above forms of evidence that they settled here. Early Medieval Danish farmers and traders. A study of Anglo Saxon DNA at Cambridgeshire, compared modern populations to a number of AS remains from local cemeteries, and reported that the modern populations most like them were the Dutch and Danish.

If you have both recent Danish, and Eastern English ancestry, I think that you can safely assume that you would have had some rural pagan Danish ancestors during the 9th and 10th centuries AD. If you wish, consider them "Viking".

I certainly think the "Scandinavian" contribution in the British Isles may be larger than thought and maybe not always where expected. From my own local research the Domesday Book records a Thorkil and a Burning "Thanes" holding land in West Herefordshire near the border with Wales.
The Book "Danes in Wessex - the Scandinavian impact on southern England c.800-c.1100 " looks at subject in some detail.

http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/2029

A Norfolk L-M20
03-15-2018, 12:26 PM
Under the rule of Genetic Folding, anyone with ancestry from Scandinavia, Britain, Ireland, France, Netherlands, Germany, and Poland - and much further afield - will have some Viking - or if you prefer ... Early Medieval Scandinavian adventurer ancestry.

However, a sad irony is that some DNA-4-Ancestry vendors use the current popularity of the Vikings in order to sell their products ... but one thing that DNA can not yet be used for, is to prove this descent. I have seen arguments for autosomal DNA, some Y haplogroup subclades, and even some mtDNA haplogroups. None of them convince me that they are absolute evidence of Viking ancestry. Altogether, with that truth of genetic folding across NW European populations - they could be seen as suggestive evidence at best.

The Danes into Eastern England are a particular problem, as I demonstrated above. They were so similar, and close to some of the migrants that had arrived and made an impact in SE Britain, only 300 years earlier, that we cannot as yet, distinguish them - by autosomal DNA, nor by haplogroups.

Ruderico
03-15-2018, 12:33 PM
What kind of grinds my gears is how so many jump on this Viking bandwagon label just because they are culturally popular today.
Unless one is an Old Norse-speaking pirate, then no, they're not viking, even if all their family is from Norway or Denmark.

A Norfolk L-M20
03-15-2018, 12:44 PM
@Ruderico. With out wanting to sound rude to anyone seeking Viking ancestry, I do agree with your point. After all, the sea raiders were not nice people. The early attacks were on the softest targets - undefended religious communities. They have been romanticised. However, it appears that asides from the pirates and sea raiders - there were also many more (judging by the place-name evidence), rural, farming, and trading settlers during the 9th and 10th centuries, from the region of Denmark. They hardly get a mention. Whether they are considered as "Vikings" is questionable, but they were here.

Curleyprow
03-15-2018, 04:40 PM
Jaclyn, on your male inheritance side, do you know whether your Father's haplogroup was/is U106? If it is, and you have stated Danish family connections on both sides, and you have a long heritage in the UK, I would say it is quite likely that you do have Viking genes going back to the Danelaw. However, what you must understand is that genealogy is an imprecise 'science' and you will NEVER know with anything like absolute certainty whether your origins are Viking, or any other group. All you can hope to achieve is start and continue an endless quest for clues as to where you might originate. Bon Voyage!

A Norfolk L-M20
03-15-2018, 05:08 PM
From the R-U106 Project: "R1b-U106 is a patrilineal descended family that appears to descend from an ancestral R1b group located among or near the Yamnaya culture, north of the Black Sea area. The group rose to significance in southern Germany and the surrounding areas about 3000 BC. Although U106 is found all over Europe, and in countries that Europeans have migrated to, it is most significant in Germany and surrounding countries, Scandinavia, and Britain. Depending on which branch of U106 a member descends from, the people on that branch adapted to a variety of different cultures along the way, including various derivatives of Slavic, Latin, Celtic, Belgae, Saxon, Viking, and other cultural groups. U106 is a family, not a culture.".

This is what I mean. How can anyone claim that R-U106 was not in SE Britain previous to the late 9th Century AD? We can not. Therefore we cannot ascertain that any particular English Y line originated with Viking. It could have arrived with Anglo-Saxon, or even earlier.

A Norfolk L-M20
03-15-2018, 05:20 PM
The other haplogroup often cited as Anglo-Danish is mtDNA T1a. This started when it was found in some Late Saxon human remains from an excavation in Norwich. A little investigation and you can find 1) T1a is a very old haplogroup, if I recall, from SW Asia, with ancient DNA found in Armenia, with no proven connection to Early Medieval Scandinavia, and 2) We actually do not have a very wide representative sample of ancient DNA from 5th - 9th century Anglo Saxon remains to make these claims. Again, it's pushing things a bit to claim that the Danes brought mtDNA hg T1 to East Anglia during the 9th/10th centuries. We can't make these assumptions. That the Danes were so close to the Angles makes it unlikely that they brought them.

The first time that I heard the T1 claim made online, it was associated with marauding, raping and pillaging Vikings. I did point out that it was mtDNA.

A Norfolk L-M20
03-15-2018, 05:21 PM
deleted

Curleyprow
03-15-2018, 06:15 PM
Jaclyn, on your male inheritance side, do you know whether your Father's haplogroup was/is U106? If it is, and you have stated Danish family connections on both sides, and you have a long heritage in the UK, I would say it is quite likely that you do have Viking genes going back to the Danelaw. However, what you must understand is that genealogy is an imprecise 'science' and you will NEVER know with anything like absolute certainty whether your origins are Viking, or any other group. All you can hope to achieve is start and continue an endless quest for clues as to where you might originate. Bon Voyage!

Curleyprow
03-15-2018, 08:25 PM
Quite right too, but I think the lady's credentials suggest that with a YDNA of U106 ( which she hasn't confirmed) it is quite as likely as not (i.e. from the spread of possibilities there is no way of discounting one over another, just as there is no way of choosing one over any other, with any certitude). To pour water over her aspiration to be Viking is no more or less scientifically plausible than promoting it.

Jaclyn
03-16-2018, 10:29 PM
The only DNA test I did was AncestryDNA and I used my results with a few other places to see what they said (like Gencove, My Heritage and Gedmatch). I have no clue what people are talking about when they mention "haplo." :P I haven't done any other specialized tests--those are too bloody expensive. I have been able to confirm that my ethnicities match up very well with the AncestryDNA test just by looking at my mom and dad's trees.

I appreciate everyone's input! :) Everyone has been VERY helpful on this forum.

Jaclyn
03-16-2018, 11:16 PM
Under the rule of Genetic Folding, anyone with ancestry from Scandinavia, Britain, Ireland, France, Netherlands, Germany, and Poland - and much further afield - will have some Viking - or if you prefer ... Early Medieval Scandinavian adventurer ancestry.

However, a sad irony is that some DNA-4-Ancestry vendors use the current popularity of the Vikings in order to sell their products ... but one thing that DNA can not yet be used for, is to prove this descent. I have seen arguments for autosomal DNA, some Y haplogroup subclades, and even some mtDNA haplogroups. None of them convince me that they are absolute evidence of Viking ancestry. Altogether, with that truth of genetic folding across NW European populations - they could be seen as suggestive evidence at best.

The Danes into Eastern England are a particular problem, as I demonstrated above. They were so similar, and close to some of the migrants that had arrived and made an impact in SE Britain, only 300 years earlier, that we cannot as yet, distinguish them - by autosomal DNA, nor by haplogroups.

That is interesting! So, since my results on AncestryDNA said I was 44% Great Britain, would it be correct to say that I am basically (almost) half Danish? Seeing as how it is near impossible to separate Anglo-Saxon DNA (true Briton DNA) from Scandinavian/Danish DNA, I think that could be a fair argument. This seems to be the general consensus that their DNA is just too similar with little to no differentiating genetic markers.

What do you think? I hope I don't upset anyone, but it's an interesting thought.

I saw some people mention here and elsewhere that Danish and Viking don't always mean the same thing, which I agree with. I'm proud just to have Danish and English period. Even if my ancestors didn't all go "a-viking", that is fine with me! lol

I probably should re-title my thread as "Am I DANISH or what?!" I'm guilty of clickbait! :P

Jaclyn
03-20-2018, 08:54 PM
I think I may have been looking at my English side too closely. While I could make a decent Danish argument, I should have been looking at my other side--German! I wrote down all of the German surnames (on both sides) as far as I could go.

I know that surnames can be a big help in determining not only what my ancestors did for a living, but also the region where the surname originated FROM. I know that my real last name (Bosch) originated in *Northern* Germany (so, basically Danish). The problem is, I can't seem to find a "cardinal" region (northern, eastern, etc.) for most of the other German surnames I wrote down. If I can pinpoint WHERE the surname came from (not just Germany in general), that would help me immensely.

Do any of you know where I could find a trustworthy search engine for surnames that can give me this kind of info? I can't seem to find anything! Ancestry.com doesn't seem to be of much help; I tried entering one of the German surnames in my family (Netscher) and it didn't tell me ANYTHING. Very frustrating. >:(

Thank you in advance!