View Full Version : James Lick calculator and 23andme v5 chip, H(G16129A) with an extra R11a mutation?

03-11-2018, 08:53 PM
23andme gave me H3. I entered my data into James Licks calculator and saw confusing results. Can someone help me understand what Iím seeing?

This is my top match:
1) H(G16129A)

Defining Markers for haplogroup H(G16129A):
HVR2: 263G
CR: 750G 1438G 4769G 8860G 15326G
HVR1: 16129A

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H(G16129A) (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 16129A ⇨ H(G16129A) ⇨ 10978G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(4): 263G 1438G 8860G 16129A
Extras(1): 10978G
Untested(3): 750 4769 15326

When I look up H(G16129A) google says it experienced a ďback mutation?Ē Whatís this mean?

When I look up the mutation 16129A I find itís haplogroup R11a

Iím so confused.

Thank you

03-12-2018, 09:52 AM
This wil not be a perfect explanation but I will have a go. 23&me tests ~20% of the mtdna genome but sometimes the gaps do not matter and James Lick can predict the right sub clade.
In your case the gaps do matter sadly, strange since H3 is so common in Europe and hence USA but they have not tested the positions which would define the next level down.
Each mutation can be used in the tree more than once, in some cases very many times, so looking up the mutation will be confusing since it will direct you one of many wrong ways (it did!).

Back mutations (to what that position was further up the tree) are commonly used to define sub branches.

The H3 project of ftdna does not say much at all but H3 reaches a peak in Galicia, Basque Country and Sardinia. The admin name is given.
You could trail through the mtdna philo-tree under H3 to look for the back mutation you have but the info is only the same as what James Licks calculator uses.
Does his output list the other sub clades that you might be with % likelihoods? If so you may be able to follow his algorithm’s logic through the tree, but with 3 missing mutations it will not be easy to follow down.

03-12-2018, 04:41 PM
Thank you I think I’m following along. There weren’t any percent likelihood. These are my top matches:

1. H(G16129A) - Matches: 263G, 1438G, 8860G, 16139A - Extra: 10878G, 3 untested
2. H3af - matches: same as above - extra: same as above - no calls: 6776C and 8470G
3. 11 options for 3rd place. Besides H, all other haplotypes have at least 1 mismatch.

On haplogroup.org H3af includes G16129A! as a defining mutation. But I don’t see the exclamation mark on the James lick site.

Is there a difference between G16129A! and G16129A (without the ! )?

Btw it says 14.6% mtdna was tested at 23 using the V5 chip.

Thank you!