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Raza94
03-24-2018, 11:30 PM
Hey guys I started a thread a while back with my cousins results hes also on this forum known as Moahk. Anyways I decided to go and get my own DNA test done through 23&me and was wondering if anyone here could help decipher it or maybe lead me in the right direction.

on 23&me it shows 99.1% South Asian

22300

22301

This is what I got through Harrapa but I have heard that it is not the best calculator. If anyone has any suggestions about what calculator to use that would be great.

A little background is that we claim "Syed" ancestry. Paternal side is from Jhang, Punjab in Pakistan and Mothers side is from Sialkot, Punjab in Pakistan.

Y haplogroup-R-M417
mt- m5a2a1

Thank you.

Censored
03-25-2018, 01:45 AM
What is the other .9%?

kush
03-25-2018, 02:06 AM
Hey guys I started a thread a while back with my cousins results hes also on this forum known as Moahk. Anyways I decided to go and get my own DNA test done through 23&me and was wondering if anyone here could help decipher it or maybe lead me in the right direction.

on 23&me it shows 99.1% South Asian

22300

22301

This is what I got through Harrapa but I have heard that it is not the best calculator. If anyone has any suggestions about what calculator to use that would be great.

A little background is that we claim "Syed" ancestry. Paternal side is from Jhang, Punjab in Pakistan and Mothers side is from Sialkot, Punjab in Pakistan.

Y haplogroup-R-M417
mt- m5a2a1

Thank you.

Can you post your mixed population results as well from harappa? Harappa is a good calc imo not sure why many don't like it. Its like a base for south asians. You can try Eurogenes K13, ANE K7, MDLP K16, MDLP k23b, Dodecad k12b, Puntdnal K13 global, and Eurasia K9 ASI. These are some good calcs imo.

You might have some west asian type ancestry based on your E african, elevated SW asian. Also, your euro is quite low for that region so that's interesting as well.

Censored
03-25-2018, 03:01 AM
Agree with Kush you need to show your mixed population results also. Your NE Euro is quite low while Caucasian and E. African is high and SW Asian is elevated. I predict there is some kind of mixture but from that information alone it's almost impossible to tell what.

MonkeyDLuffy
03-25-2018, 01:36 PM
Damn that's low Euro. I said it last time as well, you've west asian input. Judging from super low steppe, it could be somewhere south Iran.

Raza94
03-25-2018, 02:30 PM
Hey guys so the other 0.9 % is 0.4% European,0.4% East Asian/Native American and 0.1 unassigned. This is my Harrapa mixed population results

22319

And this is Eurogenes K13

22320

22321

22322

Yea I see a lot of West Asian in the Eurogenes K13 calculator. How recent would do you guys think this would be?

kush
03-25-2018, 03:00 PM
Hey guys so the other 0.9 % is 0.4% European,0.4% East Asian/Native American and 0.1 unassigned. This is my Harrapa mixed population results

22319

And this is Eurogenes K13

22320

22321

22322

Yea I see a lot of West Asian in the Eurogenes K13 calculator. How recent would do you guys think this would be?

yeah you definitely have some west asian ancestry. You are getting iranian in the population splits and you are getting that with bhatias, kalash, and sindhis present in the oracles. not sure how recent this is though. Also can you post the mixed mode population from regular 'oracle' rather than the 'oracle-4'? Post it both for harappa and eurogenes k13. This way it will show what your primary population is and in what direction you deviate from it through the secondary population.

Censored
03-25-2018, 05:20 PM
Hey guys so the other 0.9 % is 0.4% European,0.4% East Asian/Native American and 0.1 unassigned. This is my Harrapa mixed population results

22319

And this is Eurogenes K13

22320

22321

22322

Yea I see a lot of West Asian in the Eurogenes K13 calculator. How recent would do you guys think this would be?

Your west Asian isn’t that high for your region. however east Med and Red Sea are so that says something. I just don’t get why nothing is showing up on 23andme.

Raza94
03-25-2018, 11:58 PM
yeah you definitely have some west asian ancestry. You are getting iranian in the population splits and you are getting that with bhatias, kalash, and sindhis present in the oracles. not sure how recent this is though. Also can you post the mixed mode population from regular 'oracle' rather than the 'oracle-4'? Post it both for harappa and eurogenes k13. This way it will show what your primary population is and in what direction you deviate from it through the secondary population.

Here they are for both EuroGenes K13 and Harrapa

22333

22334


I also went and tried the K23b calculator and these are the results I got:
22335

22336

22337

Not sure if this matters but I am using the genesis beta on GEDMatch. On the site it said if you're using the 23&me V5 chip its better to use genesis.

Raza94
03-25-2018, 11:59 PM
Your west Asian isn’t that high for your region. however east Med and Red Sea are so that says something. I just don’t get why nothing is showing up on 23andme.

Think it may have anything to do with the V5 chip? I have seen people complaining about it

Censored
03-26-2018, 01:50 AM
Think it may have anything to do with the V5 chip? I have seen people complaining about it

It's possible. I got tested on the V4 chip and it shows me as .6% Middle Eastern even though there is nothing to suggest West Asian admixture using Gedmatch, DNAland, WeGene, or many other calculators :(

What sites can you upload your raw data to? Do it and see how much more you can find out about this West Asian ancestry.

Raza94
03-26-2018, 04:28 AM
It's possible. I got tested on the V4 chip and it shows me as .6% Middle Eastern even though there is nothing to suggest West Asian admixture using Gedmatch, DNAland, WeGene, or many other calculators :(

What sites can you upload your raw data to? Do it and see how much more you can find out about this West Asian ancestry.

I put it through the k12 admixture calculator on Geneplaza and these were my results

Ancient Farmers 35.5%:
-Neolithic Iran-15.9%
-Eastern European Farmers-18.8%
-Levant-0.9%

Southeast Eurasian 31.3%:

Steppe Cultures 25.9%:
-Scythian 0%
-Andronovo Srubnaya 16.7%
-Yamnaya 9.2%

Eastern Non-Africans 5.1%

African 2.1%

bmoney
03-26-2018, 05:04 AM
I put it through the k12 admixture calculator on Geneplaza and these were my results

Ancient Farmers 35.5%:
-Neolithic Iran-15.9%
-Eastern European Farmers-18.8%
-Levant-0.9%

Southeast Eurasian 31.3%:

Steppe Cultures 25.9%:
-Scythian 0%
-Andronovo Srubnaya 16.7%
-Yamnaya 9.2%

Eastern Non-Africans 5.1%

African 2.1%

V5 has low overlap with this calc as Kurd has mentioned - I had no EEF on v5 but it came through on ancestrydna for example - so the calculator is extrapolating using a relatively small part of your genome compared to other companies kits.

agent_lime
03-26-2018, 05:14 AM
I put it through the k12 admixture calculator on Geneplaza and these were my results

Ancient Farmers 35.5%:
-Neolithic Iran-15.9%
-Eastern European Farmers-18.8%
-Levant-0.9%

Southeast Eurasian 31.3%:

Steppe Cultures 25.9%:
-Scythian 0%
-Andronovo Srubnaya 16.7%
-Yamnaya 9.2%

Eastern Non-Africans 5.1%

African 2.1%

Is there a caste associated with your family? I haven't seen Punjabis with your kind of mix.

Raza94
03-26-2018, 05:33 AM
V5 has low overlap with this calc as Kurd has mentioned - I had no EEF on v5 but it came through on ancestrydna for example - so the calculator is extrapolating using a relatively small part of your genome compared to other companies kits.

Do you think Ancestry would be better?

Raza94
03-26-2018, 05:35 AM
Is there a caste associated with your family? I haven't seen Punjabis with your kind of mix.

Our caste would be "Syed", and Gilani Syed to be exact. Again these are just claims and I believe with our Y haplogroup you can tell we are not really "Syed". I do want to find out what caste/group we were.

Censored
03-26-2018, 06:06 AM
I put it through the k12 admixture calculator on Geneplaza and these were my results

Ancient Farmers 35.5%:
-Neolithic Iran-15.9%
-Eastern European Farmers-18.8%
-Levant-0.9%

Southeast Eurasian 31.3%:

Steppe Cultures 25.9%:
-Scythian 0%
-Andronovo Srubnaya 16.7%
-Yamnaya 9.2%

Eastern Non-Africans 5.1%

African 2.1%

Try WeGene and DNAland too.

nuplix
03-26-2018, 06:14 AM
Hello,

Thank you for sharing your results. No offense but just curious, how come are you Syed and have Y haplogroup-R-M417?

bmoney
03-26-2018, 06:19 AM
Hey guys I started a thread a while back with my cousins results hes also on this forum known as Moahk. Anyways I decided to go and get my own DNA test done through 23&me and was wondering if anyone here could help decipher it or maybe lead me in the right direction.

on 23&me it shows 99.1% South Asian

22300

22301

This is what I got through Harrapa but I have heard that it is not the best calculator. If anyone has any suggestions about what calculator to use that would be great.

A little background is that we claim "Syed" ancestry. Paternal side is from Jhang, Punjab in Pakistan and Mothers side is from Sialkot, Punjab in Pakistan.

Y haplogroup-R-M417
mt- m5a2a1

Thank you.

I think misanthropy was the only other SA member ive seen with E African on Harappa - thats extremely rare

Like other posters have mentioned your high caucasian with low ne euro is an uncommon combo - suggesting non-SA West Asian admixture

agent_lime
03-26-2018, 06:20 AM
Our caste would be "Syed", and Gilani Syed to be exact. Again these are just claims and I believe with our Y haplogroup you can tell we are not really "Syed". I do want to find out what caste/group we were.

Is this a thing in Pakistani Punjab? A have met some Pakistanis in the States claim Syed or Middle Eastern Ancestry, and they don't even look like people from Haryana, actually looked similar to slightly lighter people from UP.

Raza94
03-26-2018, 06:37 AM
Is this a thing in Pakistani Punjab? A have met some Pakistanis in the States claim Syed or Middle Eastern Ancestry, and they don't even look like people from Haryana, actually looked similar to slightly lighter people from UP.

This is huge all over Pakistan. In fact Pakistan has more Syeds than the Arab world lmao. And somehow everyone is middle eastern, they will find a way to claim it.

Barely anyone in Pakistan looks Arab/middle eastern. We share more with our Punjabi brothers on the other side of the border but sadly we will deny it.

Raza94
03-26-2018, 06:39 AM
Hello,

Thank you for sharing your results. No offense but just curious, how come are you Syed and have Y haplogroup-R-M417?


Hey,

Yea thats what I am saying. We are definitely not Syed but thats what we have been claiming for a long time. This is something that has been bothering me for a while so I thought I'd just get my DNA test done.

Censored
03-26-2018, 06:52 AM
This is huge all over Pakistan. In fact Pakistan has more Syeds than the Arab world lmao. And somehow everyone is middle eastern, they will find a way to claim it.

Barely anyone in Pakistan looks Arab/middle eastern. We share more with our Punjabi brothers on the other side of the border but sadly we will deny it.

Not just Pakistani but Indian and Bangladeshi Muslims do this as well. Who knew South Asia had the largest population of Arabs in the world.


I think misanthropy was the only other SA member ive seen with E African on Harappa - thats extremely rare

Like other posters have mentioned your high caucasian with low ne euro is an uncommon combo - suggesting non-SA West Asian admixture

Interesting. By E African on Harappa, do you mean significant East African? I have it too though it's only .41%.

Raza94
03-26-2018, 06:54 AM
Not just Pakistani but Indian and Bangladeshi Muslims do this as well. Who knew South Asia had the largest population of Arabs in the world.

Yea they just want to think that they are "pure Muslims" like there is even anything like that. God forbid one of their ancestors was non Muslim

Censored
03-26-2018, 07:02 AM
Yea they just want to think that they are "pure Muslims" like there is even anything like that. God forbid one of their ancestors was non Muslim

It is always the same cliche story too. My grandmother told me her great grandfather came from some Muslim country to spread Islam. I asked her which country and she didn't even know. I asked my dad also and he would say Mecca or Egypt. However, I do believe part of his paternal family is Pashtun-mixed.

Raza94
03-26-2018, 07:16 AM
It is always the same cliche story too. My grandmother told me her great grandfather came from some Muslim country to spread Islam. I asked her which country and she didn't even know. I asked my dad also and he would say Mecca or Egypt. However, I do believe part of his paternal family is Pashtun-mixed.

Yuppp same here. Apparently we come from Abdul Qadir Gilani whose descendants spread Islam throughout the subcontinent but we have no idea when they came here or anything.

Raza94
03-26-2018, 02:47 PM
Try WeGene and DNAland too.

I tried it on both. Here are my DNALand results

22347

And this is WeGene

22348

One is telling me I have some Arab while the other says I have none

MonkeyDLuffy
03-26-2018, 03:46 PM
I tried it on both. Here are my DNALand results

22347

And this is WeGene

22348

One is telling me I have some Arab while the other says I have none

Can you expand the south asian section of wegene? The reason why it is not middle eastern ancestry is because of the populations used for component *Sindhi*. It is absorbing a lot of East african and SW asian.

passion
03-26-2018, 04:04 PM
This is huge all over Pakistan. In fact Pakistan has more Syeds than the Arab world lmao. And somehow everyone is middle eastern, they will find a way to claim it.

Barely anyone in Pakistan looks Arab/middle eastern. We share more with our Punjabi brothers on the other side of the border but sadly we will deny it.

Its not that big In Pakistan as it is made out to be, most Pakistanis live in rural areas and very few rural Punjabi/Pashtuns/SIndhis/Balochs/Gilgit Baltistanis claim any type of foreign ancestry. It is mostly done by Karachi Muhajirs but since they are over represented in daisporas/media people think it is a common phenomena.

Raza94
03-26-2018, 04:07 PM
Can you expand the south asian section of wegene? The reason why it is not middle eastern ancestry is because of the populations used for component *Sindhi*. It is absorbing a lot of East african and SW asian.

22349

That is quite a bit on Sindhi. Is that common?

Also the Y hapogroup on there is R1a1a1b2a1b, not sure what that means? I looked it up and it seems like it has something to do with Y6?

Mingle
03-26-2018, 04:40 PM
Not just Pakistani but Indian and Bangladeshi Muslims do this as well. Who knew South Asia had the largest population of Arabs in the world.

Actually, based on my experience, Desis that claim foreign origin tend to claim Pashtun ancestry for the most part and those that claim Arab ancestry make up a minority of Desis. Although, I admit I could be biased as I'm Pashtun myself so that is something I would readily notice more.

And among the Desis that claim Arab ancestry, they will only claim an Arab patriarchal origin rather than self-identify as ethnic Arab (this includes the Syeds, etc). The Desis that claim Pashtun ancestry on the other hand tend to self-identify as ethnic Pashtun/Pathan and claim ethnic camaraderie/kinship with Pashtuns from Pashtunistan, which sets them apart from all other Desis that claim foreign ancestry. I always found that to be strange. I guess it has something to do with their caste being called 'Pathan'. Interestingly enough, I've noticed that Desi Muslims that claim Pashtun ancestry tend to be mainly from North India and Hyderabad rather than from Punjab (excluding Attock & Mianwali) even though Punjab borders Pashtunkhwa.

Raza94
03-26-2018, 05:37 PM
Actually, based on my experience, Desis that claim foreign origin tend to claim Pashtun ancestry for the most part and those that claim Arab ancestry make up a minority of Desis. Although, I admit I could be biased as I'm Pashtun myself so that is something I would readily notice more.

And among the Desis that claim Arab ancestry, they will only claim an Arab patriarchal origin rather than self-identify as ethnic Arab (this includes the Syeds, etc). The Desis that claim Pashtun ancestry on the other hand tend to self-identify as ethnic Pashtun/Pathan and claim ethnic camaraderie/kinship with Pashtuns from Pashtunistan, which sets them apart from all other Desis that claim foreign ancestry. I always found that to be strange. I guess it has something to do with their caste being called 'Pathan'. Interestingly enough, I've noticed that Desi Muslims that claim Pashtun ancestry tend to be mainly from North India and Hyderabad rather than from Punjab (excluding Attock & Mianwali) even though Punjab borders Pashtunkhwa.

Hmm that is interesting. I'll admit majority of my friends are Punjabi and a few Muhajirs here and there. Don't know many Pashtuns but I personally haven't seen anyone claim that ancestry but like you said you would notice it more than I would. The one I see the most is Syed though and you are right they dont necessarily claim to be Arab but they just want everyone to know that they're pure.

Kulin
03-26-2018, 05:49 PM
Hmm that is interesting. I'll admit majority of my friends are Punjabi and a few Muhajirs here and there. Don't know many Pashtuns but I personally haven't seen anyone claim that ancestry but like you said you would notice it more than I would. The one I see the most is Syed though and you are right they dont necessarily claim to be Arab but they just want everyone to know that they're pure.


There are many Muhajirs I've met who claim Pashtun heritage, but obviously don't identify with Pashtuns of Pakhtunkhwa, but with Hindustani culture and the Urdu language. I even have one friend, who's paternal family are of Pathan origin from Saharanpur in Uttar Pradesh, and maternal family are Pashto speaking Yousafzais from the tribal belt settled in Karachi. Despite him having direct Pashtun ancestry, he says he mostly identifies with the Muhajir culture of Sindh and doesn't speak Pashto.

I mean as I've said before, being pathan is a caste-like status, especially in the Hindi belt, with them actually having some (diluted) Pashtun ancestry. They still wouldn't really identify with the far-flung culture of the Pashtun tribal areas though.

Censored
03-26-2018, 06:15 PM
Actually, based on my experience, Desis that claim foreign origin tend to claim Pashtun ancestry for the most part and those that claim Arab ancestry make up a minority of Desis. Although, I admit I could be biased as I'm Pashtun myself so that is something I would readily notice more.

And among the Desis that claim Arab ancestry, they will only claim an Arab patriarchal origin rather than self-identify as ethnic Arab (this includes the Syeds, etc). The Desis that claim Pashtun ancestry on the other hand tend to self-identify as ethnic Pashtun/Pathan and claim ethnic camaraderie/kinship with Pashtuns from Pashtunistan, which sets them apart from all other Desis that claim foreign ancestry. I always found that to be strange. I guess it has something to do with their caste being called 'Pathan'. Interestingly enough, I've noticed that Desi Muslims that claim Pashtun ancestry tend to be mainly from North India and Hyderabad rather than from Punjab (excluding Attock & Mianwali) even though Punjab borders Pashtunkhwa.

I have never seen anyone claiming Pashtun ancestry so I find it hard to believe it’s the most common one to claim. Not even that many people are familiar with Pashtuns whereas everyone knows what Arabs are, and Arab ancestry is more prestigious anyway. Turkic ancestry is also claimed due to the reverence people have for Mughals.

I don’t think that claims of Pashtun ancestry should be lumped into the same category as the others. Very few Arabs actually settled in South Asia and everyone wants to have some connection. Naturally most claims are false. Pathan descent on the other hand is much more common and claims are less, so the probably of it being genuine are magnitudes higher.

Mingle
03-26-2018, 06:34 PM
I have never seen anyone claiming Pashtun ancestry so I find it hard to believe it’s the most common one to claim. Not even that many people are familiar with Pashtuns whereas everyone knows what Arabs are, and Arab ancestry is more prestigious anyway. Turkic ancestry is also claimed due to the reverence people have for Mughals.

I don’t think that claims of Pashtun ancestry should be lumped into the same category as the others. Very few Arabs actually settled in South Asia and everyone wants to have some connection. Naturally most claims are false. Pathan descent on the other hand is much more common and claims are less, so the probably of it being genuine are magnitudes higher.

Indians are not familiar with "Pathans"? Hard to believe considering Bollywood and people with Pathan as their surname (e.g. Yousaf Pathan, Irfan Pathan).

Most Desis that claim Arab ancestry tend to be from the peripheral western parts of the subcontinent where Arabs did settle. Similarly, a lot of Desis that claim Pashtun origin tend to be from the north where Pashtuns did settle.

Arab ancestry claims may be more common, but the people that claim Arab ancestry don't ever identify as ethnic Arab. People that do claim Pashtun ancestry tend to call themselves Pathan based on my experience. This could have given me the false impression that Pashtun ancestry is more common. I don't know how common it is for Desis to identify as ethnic Pathan or just say that they simply have partial Pashtun ancestry, but I've met Desis in real life (from Gujarat and Uttar Pradesh) that told me that they were also Pathan when they found out about my ethnicity. Most may not be like that though.

Raza94
03-26-2018, 06:48 PM
Indians are not familiar with "Pathans"? Hard to believe considering Bollywood and people with Pathan as their surname (e.g. Yousaf Pathan, Irfan Pathan).

Most Desis that claim Arab ancestry tend to be from the peripheral western parts of the subcontinent where Arabs did settle. Similarly, a lot of Desis that claim Pashtun origin tend to be from the north where Pashtuns did settle.

Arab ancestry claims may be more common, but the people that claim Arab ancestry don't ever identify as ethnic Arab. People that do claim Pashtun ancestry tend to call themselves Pathan based on my experience. This could have given me the false impression that Pashtun ancestry is more common. I don't know how common it is for Desis to identify as ethnic Pathan or just say that they simply have partial Pashtun ancestry, but I've met Desis in real life (from Gujarat and Uttar Pradesh) that told me that they were also Pathan when they found out about my ethnicity. Most may not be like that though.

I can understand UP but Gujarat is a pretty surprising, but I am guessing it is mostly Muslim Gujaratis, correct? I thought they would claim more Arab ancestry since they had a lot of trade with Arabs along the coast if I am not mistaken.

Mingle
03-26-2018, 07:45 PM
I can understand UP but Gujarat is a pretty surprising, but I am guessing it is mostly Muslim Gujaratis, correct? I thought they would claim more Arab ancestry since they had a lot of trade with Arabs along the coast if I am not mistaken.

I should have mentioned that it was just one guy from Gujarat that claimed that. Yes, he was Muslim. That being said, Yousaf Pathan and Irfan Pathan are from Gujarat. Maybe coastal Gujaratis are more likely to claim Arab origin whereas those from the interior are different.

Censored
03-26-2018, 10:13 PM
Indians are not familiar with "Pathans"? Hard to believe considering Bollywood and people with Pathan as their surname (e.g. Yousaf Pathan, Irfan Pathan).

Most Desis that claim Arab ancestry tend to be from the peripheral western parts of the subcontinent where Arabs did settle. Similarly, a lot of Desis that claim Pashtun origin tend to be from the north where Pashtuns did settle.

Arab ancestry claims may be more common, but the people that claim Arab ancestry don't ever identify as ethnic Arab. People that do claim Pashtun ancestry tend to call themselves Pathan based on my experience. This could have given me the false impression that Pashtun ancestry is more common. I don't know how common it is for Desis to identify as ethnic Pathan or just say that they simply have partial Pashtun ancestry, but I've met Desis in real life (from Gujarat and Uttar Pradesh) that told me that they were also Pathan when they found out about my ethnicity. Most may not be like that though.

Perhaps I worded it wrongly. By not being familiar I meant that they may know what Pathans are but generally very little is actually known their culture and practices generally speaking. Compare this to Arabs where every Muslim knows a shit ton about them because of the Islamic influence.

Also, it's not at all limited to the western coast where Arabs did settle. I really don't even know how to argue this because there's just so many anecdotal examples to the contrary.

A lot of people call themselves "Arab" or "Persian" because supposedly one ancestor several generations back happened to be one. I remember this one time where a Pakistani guy told me that he was an Arab because his last name was Qureshi. So it does happen I guess. The reason people claim to be Pathan rather than just saying they have Pashtun ancestry, I suppose, is due to people being unaware of how different the culture really is which I alluded to earlier. I doubt a Syed would go to Saudi Arabia and call himself Arab because he understands he would be laughed at, but many people of supposed Pashtun ancestry are 100% assimilated and mostly ignorant of cultural differences between their local culture and Pashtun culture.

Toor
03-26-2018, 11:05 PM
I have never seen anyone claiming Pashtun ancestry so I find it hard to believe it’s the most common one to claim. Not even that many people are familiar with Pashtuns whereas everyone knows what Arabs are, and Arab ancestry is more prestigious anyway. Turkic ancestry is also claimed due to the reverence people have for Mughals.

I don’t think that claims of Pashtun ancestry should be lumped into the same category as the others. Very few Arabs actually settled in South Asia and everyone wants to have some connection. Naturally most claims are false. Pathan descent on the other hand is much more common and claims are less, so the probably of it being genuine are magnitudes higher.

Actually it is very common within the North and the East at least. From my experience, UP seems to have loads of Muslim communities claiming to be Pathans. There is even a politician from Western UP who goes around wearing a Pakol although I forget his name.

In Darbhanga, near me, there is a section of the city called "Pathantoli". I think there was a historical community of Afghans who traded there and some Muslims today claim descent from them.

Raza94
03-27-2018, 05:23 PM
You guys have any other idea of which calculators to try? Or if maybe I should get another test done through Ancestry and compare the results?

pegasus
03-31-2018, 04:17 AM
Perhaps I worded it wrongly. By not being familiar I meant that they may know what Pathans are but generally very little is actually known their culture and practices generally speaking. Compare this to Arabs where every Muslim knows a shit ton about them because of the Islamic influence.

Also, it's not at all limited to the western coast where Arabs did settle. I really don't even know how to argue this because there's just so many anecdotal examples to the contrary.

A lot of people call themselves "Arab" or "Persian" because supposedly one ancestor several generations back happened to be one. I remember this one time where a Pakistani guy told me that he was an Arab because his last name was Qureshi. So it does happen I guess. The reason people claim to be Pathan rather than just saying they have Pashtun ancestry, I suppose, is due to people being unaware of how different the culture really is which I alluded to earlier. I doubt a Syed would go to Saudi Arabia and call himself Arab because he understands he would be laughed at, but many people of supposed Pashtun ancestry are 100% assimilated and mostly ignorant of cultural differences between their local culture and Pashtun culture.

In terms of language yes, because obviously Arabic is the liturgical language of Islam and its true most Pashtuns in Northern India have assimilated though there is a level of endogamy among them , those in Maler Kotla in Punjab, more so Pashtuns in some districts in Kashmir, where half of them still speak Pashto in their homes while the other half are Kashmiri speakers.

Censored
03-31-2018, 04:46 AM
Actually it is very common within the North and the East at least. From my experience, UP seems to have loads of Muslim communities claiming to be Pathans. There is even a politician from Western UP who goes around wearing a Pakol although I forget his name.

In Darbhanga, near me, there is a section of the city called "Pathantoli". I think there was a historical community of Afghans who traded there and some Muslims today claim descent from them.

I might be biased cause most Indians I've met were Hyderabadis like myself. Although I did see one obnoxious Muhajir with roots from north India on 23andme claiming to be Syed despite not having any Middle Eastern results.

Kulin
03-31-2018, 10:57 PM
Actually it is very common within the North and the East at least. From my experience, UP seems to have loads of Muslim communities claiming to be Pathans. There is even a politician from Western UP who goes around wearing a Pakol although I forget his name.

In Darbhanga, near me, there is a section of the city called "Pathantoli". I think there was a historical community of Afghans who traded there and some Muslims today claim descent from them.



In my city of Chittagong, there's also an area called "Pathantoli". :lol:

Taqi_G
04-01-2018, 12:47 AM
Why would an South Asians Syed say that he himself is "arab"? That makes completely no sense, because culturally and linguistically he is much closer to the indian subcontinent.

Kulin
04-01-2018, 04:33 AM
Why would an South Asians Syed say that he himself is "arab"? That makes completely no sense, because culturally and linguistically he is much closer to the indian subcontinent.


Never really seen that ever, atleast in real life.

Tirunelvi
04-03-2018, 07:20 PM
Deleted

saud2237
12-29-2020, 06:51 AM
Came across this thread so thought I would respond - first off whether or not you are Syed shouldn't really bother you. It doesn't make you any better or worse than anyone.

Secondly, your haplogroup suggests that you forefathers were immigrants from Afghanistan - If you don't have haplogroup J1 then its highly unlikely (over 90% certain) you are not Syed

Lastly, the descendants of Jilani belonged to all sorts of haplogroups - so there are plenty of cases of people claiming descendancy.

But long story short if you don't belong to J1 then highly unlikely not Syed and you should come to accept it

- A fellow Gilani