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shutout52
04-09-2018, 02:41 PM
Wondering if anyone might have some insight into this. I also posted this in the North American section.

My dad just got tested via Ancestry and it came out pretty much as we expected: All four of his grandparents were born in Finland, so of course that would expect to come out mostly Finnish, maybe some Swedish/Norwegian/Russian in there, perhaps some British Isles since there's a paper trail that leads back to Scotland on one ancestor.

Well, we were close: 99+% Finnish... and <1% Native American.

He said a more specific breakdown put the Finnish to Lakeland/Lapland and also Western Finland/Oulu. Both of those make sense: his mother's parents were from Western Finland (Ylivieska and Toysa and before them it mostly traces back to the Western coast and a bit into Sweden), and his father's parents from up near the Arctic Circle (Tervola, with previous lines in Rovaniemi, Kemijarvi, Sodankyla, Ii, Kittila, and into Northern Sweden).

So... Where would this tiny amount of Native American come from?

AJL
05-26-2018, 05:30 PM
It's probably a relic of a Saami-like DNA component from the ancient mammoth hunters who stretched across North Eurasia, and which is also found in some Native Americans.

razyn
05-26-2018, 07:01 PM
There were a good many Finns and Finlandsvenskar in the Delaware Valley colony of New Sweden, which didn't last long (becoming Dutch, and then English, in rapid succession by 1664). A good few of the males married (or bred with) native ladies, and their descendants in a few cases went back to Swedish controlled lands (Finland and Estonia among them). A fairly famous example was Sandels, remembered because of a poem by Runeberg. http://runeberg.org/fstal/1k.html

IIRC his grandfather Rev. Anders Sandel had married a girl in the colony whose maternal grandmother was Native American, and local (more or less from present Camden, NJ), married to a Finn. Sandel returned to Sweden after a tour of duty as the pastor of Gloria Dei "Old Swedes" church in present Philadelphia. They got ennobled, so there's some 18th century Swedish nobility with 17th century NA ancestry, campaigning against the Russians in Finland. Weird, isn't it? I'm not making all of this up, although possibly a little bit...

And there are other possibilities, including Scotland (as you mentioned); and including very ancient relationships by way of Beringia, before the lower Americas were populated from there -- assuming that current aDNA work is fairly correct. https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7447-Ancient-DNA-revealing-the-peopling-of-the-Americas&p=345294&viewfull=1#post345294

JohnHowellsTyrfro
05-27-2018, 12:31 PM
I'm British and regularly score around 1% Native American/Arctic Amerindian. I don't think it is that unusual in some European populations, possibly a hint of some ancient shared origins I would think.

JerryS.
05-27-2018, 07:33 PM
With 1% or less I would also agree with it being an ancient trace holdover...

J1 DYS388=13
05-27-2018, 07:52 PM
Wondering if anyone might have some insight into this. I also posted this in the North American section.

My dad just got tested via Ancestry and it came out pretty much as we expected: All four of his grandparents were born in Finland, so of course that would expect to come out mostly Finnish, maybe some Swedish/Norwegian/Russian in there, perhaps some British Isles since there's a paper trail that leads back to Scotland on one ancestor.

Well, we were close: 99+% Finnish... and <1% Native American.

He said a more specific breakdown put the Finnish to Lakeland/Lapland and also Western Finland/Oulu. Both of those make sense: his mother's parents were from Western Finland (Ylivieska and Toysa and before them it mostly traces back to the Western coast and a bit into Sweden), and his father's parents from up near the Arctic Circle (Tervola, with previous lines in Rovaniemi, Kemijarvi, Sodankyla, Ii, Kittila, and into Northern Sweden).

So... Where would this tiny amount of Native American come from?

There seems to be a clue in this paper: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/05/23/327122.full.pdf

shutout52
06-11-2018, 07:11 PM
There were a good many Finns and Finlandsvenskar in the Delaware Valley colony of New Sweden, which didn't last long (becoming Dutch, and then English, in rapid succession by 1664). A good few of the males married (or bred with) native ladies, and their descendants in a few cases went back to Swedish controlled lands (Finland and Estonia among them). A fairly famous example was Sandels, remembered because of a poem by Runeberg.

IIRC his grandfather Rev. Anders Sandel had married a girl in the colony whose maternal grandmother was Native American, and local (more or less from present Camden, NJ), married to a Finn. Sandel returned to Sweden after a tour of duty as the pastor of Gloria Dei "Old Swedes" church in present Philadelphia. They got ennobled, so there's some 18th century Swedish nobility with 17th century NA ancestry, campaigning against the Russians in Finland. Weird, isn't it? I'm not making all of this up, although possibly a little bit...

And there are other possibilities, including Scotland (as you mentioned); and including very ancient relationships by way of Beringia, before the lower Americas were populated from there -- assuming that current aDNA work is fairly correct.

As far as I know, none of our ancestors were ever in the Delaware colony, at least I haven't seen any evidence of it. The first records of any of my family ending up in the US were from around 1880 when two of my great-great-grandfather's brothers went over. I'm still trying to find where they went, and may have finally nailed it down recently. My grandfather was born in Finland and came to the US in 1909.


There seems to be a clue in this paper

Thanks, I'll give it a check tonight.

Kurki
10-06-2018, 03:57 PM
My family history is 100% Scandivanian and I end up with Amerindian 1-2% on any of the GEDmatch calculators, or up to 6% Samoyed. Most likely Sami/Lapp as others noted (my great grandmother's family was from a Swedish Sami parish). Your dad could upload his raw data to GEDmatch and try all the MDLP calculators for Sami references. They have Sami, Sami Kola, Swede Sami (I get Swede Sami and with that reference my admixtures are pretty accurate too.. others made me Russian, though Eurogenes distinguishes "North Swede"... likely has good references for Finland too. But MDLP very good for Sami. And Sami very normal for Finland. So is this "Native American" miscategorization. Might be closer to Selkup, etc, which just have no reference in these big tests right now. But really just Sami, most likely.

Nino90
08-19-2019, 02:19 PM
My family history is 100% Scandivanian and I end up with Amerindian 1-2% on any of the GEDmatch calculators, or up to 6% Samoyed. Most likely Sami/Lapp as others noted (my great grandmother's family was from a Swedish Sami parish). Your dad could upload his raw data to GEDmatch and try all the MDLP calculators for Sami references. They have Sami, Sami Kola, Swede Sami (I get Swede Sami and with that reference my admixtures are pretty accurate too.. others made me Russian, though Eurogenes distinguishes "North Swede"... likely has good references for Finland too. But MDLP very good for Sami. And Sami very normal for Finland. So is this "Native American" miscategorization. Might be closer to Selkup, etc, which just have no reference in these big tests right now. But really just Sami, most likely.

I know MDLP has Saami reference but it is not a very good calculator and give most people Saami anyways.

My father who is 1/4 Saami score Chuvash and Mari on most Calculators.

Kurki
11-02-2019, 03:02 PM
I know MDLP has Saami reference but it is not a very good calculator and give most people Saami anyways.

My father who is 1/4 Saami score Chuvash and Mari on most Calculators.

Yes, I would not take this seriously if this reference shows up a couple times. It is like any and just a reference, sometimes showing up like a combo Scandinavian-Volga, which is common for many things. My dad gets more Erzya, Selkup, minor Koryak, only Chuvash on one tool. But he is mostly Swedish/Scandinavian. Main point, he is not Native American and I would never claim that ancestry but I do not claim Sami either. We are Swedish.