PDA

View Full Version : New Brother Clade to P312 and U106: DF100+



R.Rocca
10-01-2013, 11:13 PM
A new SNP has been verified that looks to make up an important amount (but not all) of former L11(xP312,U106). It has been designated DF100, and once FTDNA resumes accepting new SNP information, we will send it to them.

It has been found in HG00148 (Kent, UK), PGP45 (Georgia, USA), PGP124 (USA), and also derived in 12 samples from the Genome of the Netherlands project.

GRCh37 position: 16775613
Ancestral allele: C
Derived allele: T

rms2
10-01-2013, 11:17 PM
Awesome!

Aren't there 500 samples total in the Genome of the Netherlands Project? Or is my memory faulty there?

R.Rocca
10-01-2013, 11:22 PM
Awesome!

Aren't there 500 samples total in the Genome of the Netherlands Project? Or is my memory faulty there?

That's correct, there are 500.

jdean
10-01-2013, 11:24 PM
Great news !!

Got to be said, FTDNA really have got to get there act together, there's far too much going on right now to be sitting around twiddling your thumbs !!

rms2
10-01-2013, 11:36 PM
Great news !!

Got to be said, FTDNA really have got to get there act together, there's far too much going on right now to be sitting around twiddling your thumbs !!

I agree. Don't get me wrong: I like FTDNA and Bennett Greenspan a lot, and I have experienced a great deal of success with them, but there are a few areas lately that I am less than pleased about - the neglect of Ysearch being a major one, for example.

rms2
10-02-2013, 12:10 AM
Hey, it occurs to me that, since DF100 was found in 12 men in the Genome of the Netherlands Project, and BritainsDNA is using SNPs from that project in its Chromo2, DF100 is likely to be included in the Chromo2 test, probably under an "S" name.

alan
10-02-2013, 12:27 AM
Well it looks a bit like northern L11 will mainly be within this new clade. I wonder how old this new SNP will turn out to be. Just under L11 or a later one? No way of telling yet as we dont know how widespread it is. If its as old as U106 or older then that would be interesting as we can rule them out as ancestors of U106. However, and I think people tend to overlook this, if it is an SNP that is later than U106 and P312 it still could be ancestral and the SNP simply happened later.

Rathna
10-02-2013, 02:18 AM
This could be very interesting. I agreed with ballardgen's hypothesis that his R-L11* was of Italian origin but from a Langobard descent and this could explain the rarity of R-L11* in Italy and this was a lack in my theory of the Italian Refugium, but I have posted some posts also about very varied Italian R-L11*, and my hypothesis was that these samples were the witness of the most ancient R-L11* from the Italian Refugium. If these "German" R-L11* were actually" R-DF100* and the Italian R-L11+/DF100-, this could be good for me.

TigerMW
10-02-2013, 01:51 PM
Thanks again to the discovery team. Great work.

We don't know anything about the STRs of the DF100 people, do we?


That's correct, there are 500.
If any, how many L11+ U106- P312- DF100- men were found in the Genome of Netherlands project?

R.Rocca
10-02-2013, 05:27 PM
Thanks again to the discovery team. Great work.

We don't know anything about the STRs of the DF100 people, do we?


If any, how many L11+ U106- P312- DF100- men were found in the Genome of Netherlands project?

Mike, the way they released their data thus far, it is impossible to tell. Hopefully when they officially publish their findings, it will be more obvious.

razyn
10-02-2013, 06:31 PM
Well it looks a bit like northern L11 will mainly be within this new clade.

I was just reading a brief note in Jean Manco's new book about northern R1b-L11*. If anybody wants to know, it's on p. 210. Some of those guys probably just lost their asterisk.

Grossvater
10-02-2013, 06:36 PM
I was just reading a brief note in Jean Manco's new book about northern R1b-L11*. If anybody wants to know, it's on p. 210. Some of those guys probably just lost their asterisk.

Quick Newby question...what do those asterisks actually mean?

Scarlet Ibis
10-02-2013, 07:04 PM
Quick Newby question...what do those asterisks actually mean?

It typically means there's nothing else downstream of it. There are no more unique markers.

R.Rocca
10-02-2013, 07:31 PM
It typically means there's nothing else downstream of it. There are no more unique markers.

And more specifically, it means that it is negative for all known down stream markers, and usually there are unkown markers as witnessed by DF100 which would previously be classified as L11*

Rathna
10-03-2013, 04:55 AM
Maliclavelli
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2052



This I wrote to ballardgen on Worldfamilies:

Quote from: ballardgen on October 02, 2013, 02:43:12 PM
We accept the current pathway from Anatolia/Armenia that places the evolved P310*/L11* peoples in the area of Germany and Sth Baltic.


I remember to you all what I wrote here (thread: R-L11 in Italy):

Now the few Italian R-L11 (and some could be amongst the Italians tested by SMGF I put on ySearch, but about them there isn’t the certitude of the SNP test) are just outliers amongst the R-L11 known.

This sample from Boattini’s:

DYS390=25
DYS391=12
DYS388=14
DYS389I=12
DYS448=20
H4=12
DYS438=13
DYS635=24

And here are the Zohrab's values from Armenia:
N9165 Zohrab b Erevan, Armenia ca 1580 d New Julfa 1620 Armenia R1b1a2a1a1
14 24 15 10 10-14 12 12 12 13 13 30 16 9-10 11 11 24 14 19 27 15-15-17-17 11 11 19-23 15 15 16 17 36-39 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23-23 17 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

In the "ht 35 FTDNA Project" there is this only R-L11 and no R-L51, whereas Italy had probably the highest percentage of this haplogroup. I agree that probably R-L11 (but there is the possibility that they are all R-DF100) is linked with Germans, but not that R-L51 and R-L11 came from Armenia. All this could be the witness that the Armenian R-L23 came from the Balkans (and before from Italy) with the first migrations of Indo-Europeans, but the subclades didn't reach the Caucasus.

Peter M
11-22-2013, 11:32 PM
For those who care about DF100:

We tend to use the marker DYS492 as a predictor for U106 versus P312. With very few known exceptions all P312 have DYS492=12 and all U106 have DYS492=13.

1kG HG00148, the single DF100+ sample that has revealed anything of itself, most likely is DYS492=12. There's only a single observation in the .bam file, but it looks clean and is the best we have until we discover a tested profile that is DF100+. An eager optimist will immediately conclude DF100 is closer to P312 than to U106. I guess it's wee bit early for conclusions like that, but it might help finding candidates for testing (once the SNP is available for testing).

vettor
11-23-2013, 01:19 AM
In re: to U106 and P312, Hammer's map sees U106 forming in old east germany, later moving north into denmark etc.
History also states the lombards settled in the area stated as U106 birthplace. The lombards then moved firstly for a period of generations to eastern austria and later italy. The rugii tribe a Pomeranian people also settled in Eastern Austria. Doesn't this indicate the lombards are the reason for this marker -U106
IIRC eastern austria has about 15% of U106 and lombard italy about 7%.

The P312 is classed as East-Med ( pontid race) by some scholars, a pre slavic/scythian race but a thracian/getae race .........

IIRC DYS390 numbers 22, 23, 24 , 25 and 26 are designated as European. with 22 being the oldest. The DYS390=25 in boattini sample indicates a later migration

similligan
01-01-2014, 12:16 AM
Is there any more information on DF100? I had a relative tested and he is DF100+. He is kit 169774 Adams and his 111 marker results can be viewed on the FTDNA Adams surname project site under the presidential Adams heading. He is also a member of both the FTDNA and Worldfamilies P11/P310* projects. His line has been traced to 1500's Somersetshire, England.

Here is his SNP testing history: Haplogroup R-P310 Tests Taken DF100+, P310+, P312-, U106-

Susan

Joe B
01-06-2014, 11:48 PM
A new SNP has been verified that looks to make up an important amount (but not all) of former L11(xP312,U106). It has been designated DF100, and once FTDNA resumes accepting new SNP information, we will send it to them.

It has been found in HG00148 (Kent, UK), PGP45 (Georgia, USA), PGP124 (USA), and also derived in 12 samples from the Genome of the Netherlands project.

GRCh37 position: 16775613
Ancestral allele: C
Derived allele: T
Has it been determined if DF100 is really ancestral? No, I did not suddenly become an expert. I will be doing some testing with YSEQ DNA and Thomas Krahn was wondering if the phylogenetic position of DF100 is completely resolved. Would there be any value in having a R1b-Z2103 test for DF100?

R.Rocca
01-07-2014, 12:13 AM
Has it been determined if DF100 is really ancestral? No, I did not suddenly become an expert. I will be doing some testing with YSEQ DNA and Thomas Krahn was wondering if the phylogenetic position of DF100 is completely resolved. Would there be any value in having a R1b-Z2103 test for DF100?

All of the DF100+ samples I've seen are L11+ P312- U106-

ballardgen
02-02-2014, 02:05 PM
Currently we only have 1 tested DF100 in our project but major testing is under way so should have some more results soon.

CTS4528 seem to be the dominant group at the moment.

http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/r1b1a2a1a

VinceT
02-02-2014, 06:55 PM
Haplogroup R-U106 is confirmed negative for DF100.
http://shop.yseq.net/group_alleles.php?gid=12

MJost
02-02-2014, 08:06 PM
Haplogroup R-U106 is confirmed negative for DF100.
http://shop.yseq.net/group_alleles.php?gid=12

Is ID6 providing his name Publicly?

MJost

VinceT
02-02-2014, 11:09 PM
I am not authorized to confirm who YSEQ 6 is, but I can confirm that YSEQ 7 is R-U106 > L199+, and was sourced from the same donor identified as:
FTDNA 63831
Ysearch & Mitosearch 2GXWW
WTY GRC007712
GenBank GQ368895
"VinceT" on this here forum.

VinceT
02-12-2014, 05:58 AM
Dr. Jim Wilson of BritainsDNA/ScotlandsDNA etc. has informed ISOGG that "DF100 is S1203" and is on the Chromo2 chip, and it "looks to be very rare" to him.

ballardgen
10-07-2014, 10:03 AM
Currently we only have 1 tested DF100 in our project but major testing is under way so should have some more results soon.

CTS4528 seem to be the dominant group at the moment.

http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/r1b1a2a1a


New Project Address - 52 samples

Adrian Ballard - CTS4528 & DF100 Private Project Manager
https://www.facebook.com/groups/r1b1a1a1a1c/
https://sites.google.com/site/cts4528/