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michal3141
04-16-2018, 12:56 PM
Hi,

Based on the data available in https://www.familytreedna.com/ws/PublicmyMaps.aspx?axn=getdata&group=R1a_and_subclades&dnaType=YDNA&subgroup= (FTDNA R1a project public data), R1a tree (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1a/) and a very cool tool by Hunter: https://phylogeographer.com/tool/ I was able to visualize the geographic distribution of R1a clades.

How it works:
1. Go to https://phylogeographer.com/tool
2. Select R1a from the list
3. Click a node on a tree (e.g. R-Z282)

The expected result should be similar to the one below:

22638

The tree is still cluttered because there are many branches and nodes but Hunter is working to improve it.

04-16-2018, 01:14 PM
Do you think he will add my R-Z283* to it?

michal3141
04-16-2018, 01:47 PM
Do you think he will add my R-Z283* to it?

Currently the dataset used is: https://www.familytreedna.com/ws/PublicmyMaps.aspx?axn=getdata&group=R1a_and_subclades&dnaType=YDNA&subgroup=
And I am using 'deephaplo' for final position in the tree which might not be the best because there are some R-Z283* in 'subgroup'.
This is still very much work in progress. I've heard there is a XML file that can be exported by FTDNA project admins that contains more information + info about negative SNPs.

04-16-2018, 02:04 PM
Currently the dataset used is: https://www.familytreedna.com/ws/PublicmyMaps.aspx?axn=getdata&group=R1a_and_subclades&dnaType=YDNA&subgroup=
And I am using 'deephaplo' for final position in the tree which might not be the best because there are some R-Z283* in 'subgroup'.
This is still very much work in progress. I've heard there is a XML file that can be exported by FTDNA project admins that contains more information + info about negative SNPs.

yes im in that dataset.

michal3141
04-16-2018, 02:36 PM
yes im in that dataset.

I guess your deephaplo in this dataset is R-Z283, is this correct?

04-16-2018, 03:09 PM
I guess your deephaplo in this dataset is R-Z283, is this correct?

No I’m R-Z283*
A novel branch off it, there are no Big Y testers yet who have tested and have matched my private SNP for us to create and name the new Branch.
It’s also on YFull as a novel branch, with my little Welsh flag on it.

Dibran
04-17-2018, 07:28 PM
My data does not seem to be in this program/app. Despite testing with FTDNA. Does it only show fullY testers?

michal3141
04-17-2018, 07:59 PM
My data does not seem to be in this program/app. Despite testing with FTDNA. Does it only show fullY testers?

It is based on yfull R1a tree. I've send an email to the R1a FTDNA project admins if they can help with Paternal Ancestry XML file. This would help a lot with getting more accurate results. We will see if they respond.

Dibran
04-18-2018, 12:39 PM
It is based on yfull R1a tree. I've send an email to the R1a FTDNA project admins if they can help with Paternal Ancestry XML file. This would help a lot with getting more accurate results. We will see if they respond.

I am already on Yfull though. L1029* confirmed. So my data should be up no?

On the 1029 plot I only see samples between Greece, Macedonia, Bulgaria, but I don't see my own.

michal3141
04-18-2018, 01:21 PM
I am already on Yfull though. L1029* confirmed. So my data should be up no?

On the 1029 plot I only see samples between Greece, Macedonia, Bulgaria, but I don't see my own.

What is your "kit" and "deephaplo" in https://www.familytreedna.com/ws/PublicmyMaps.aspx?axn=getdata&group=R1a_and_subclades&dnaType=YDNA&subgroup= ?
As I said - this is based on public data from the link above. Alternatively you can tell me "lat" (latitude) and "lng" (longitude). You can send a private message to me in case you don't want to disclose this information here.

Dibran
04-18-2018, 02:15 PM
What is your "kit" and "deephaplo" in https://www.familytreedna.com/ws/PublicmyMaps.aspx?axn=getdata&group=R1a_and_subclades&dnaType=YDNA&subgroup= ?
As I said - this is based on public data from the link above. Alternatively you can tell me "lat" (latitude) and "lng" (longitude). You can send a private message to me in case you don't want to disclose this information here.

Its no trouble. Well I belong to a founder effect with me and my Albanian match from Macedonia. He did not do bigy/yfull, so I am classified as L1029* basal on yfull, since my match did not test fullY to define our founder clade.

My Yfull ID is, YF11397. My earliest ancestor on paper was born in Okshtun i Vogel, Diber Vogel, Albania. coordinates 41.384173, 20.347410

M FTDNA kit: B188498, I am defined as L1029 - (FGC72553)* on R1a project. However, it is a theoretical placement. I am having my novels tested for my match at Yseq to confirm if the founder affect occurs there or elsewhere. It is believed to be upstream of YP263.

michal3141
04-18-2018, 05:53 PM
Its no trouble. Well I belong to a founder effect with me and my Albanian match from Macedonia. He did not do bigy/yfull, so I am classified as L1029* basal on yfull, since my match did not test fullY to define our founder clade.

My Yfull ID is, YF11397. My earliest ancestor on paper was born in Okshtun i Vogel, Diber Vogel, Albania. coordinates 41.384173, 20.347410

M FTDNA kit: B188498, I am defined as L1029 - (FGC72553)* on R1a project. However, it is a theoretical placement. I am having my novels tested for my match at Yseq to confirm if the founder affect occurs there or elsewhere. It is believed to be upstream of YP263.

Dibran, Thanks for info.

You see this is your data:

{"kit":"B188498","lat":41.3839073,"lng":20.34801,"savedLoc":"Okshtun I Vogel, Albania","kitName":"Not Disclosed","ancestor":null,"basehaplo":"R","deephaplo":"R-M198","isConfirmed":false,"subgroup":"4. ..\u003eZ282\u003ePF6155\u003eM458\u003ePF7521\u00 3eCTS11962\u003eL1029\u003e(FGC72553)*"}

Note that I am using deephaplo which is R-M198 in your case to identify your final position in the R1a haplotree. Probably I should be using subgroup instead. This is surely not the final version of the tree. I hope to update it at some point.

Dibran
04-18-2018, 06:02 PM
Dibran, Thanks for info.

You see this is your data:

{"kit":"B188498","lat":41.3839073,"lng":20.34801,"savedLoc":"Okshtun I Vogel, Albania","kitName":"Not Disclosed","ancestor":null,"basehaplo":"R","deephaplo":"R-M198","isConfirmed":false,"subgroup":"4. ..\u003eZ282\u003ePF6155\u003eM458\u003ePF7521\u00 3eCTS11962\u003eL1029\u003e(FGC72553)*"}

Note that I am using deephaplo which is R-M198 in your case to identify your final position in the R1a haplotree. Probably I should be using subgroup instead. This is surely not the final version of the tree. I hope to update it at some point.

Look forward to the update. Considering known position, M198 is too general of an assessment for the data tree. It would be cool to add a feature that allows users to upload project data for their placement, and or yfull.

Additionally, for some reason now R1a drop down does not populate the map or side panel. The others seem to be working well.

Best

michal3141
04-18-2018, 06:13 PM
Additionally, for some reason now R1a drop down does not populate the map or side panel. The others seem to be working well.

Best

Try to refresh the page. I also experienced a similar issue. Maybe it is because there is a lot of data and browser has hard time with plotting the data.
Ask Hunter about technical issues - he created the website: https://phylogeographer.com/about-me/

angscoire
04-18-2018, 08:47 PM
Try to refresh the page. I also experienced a similar issue. Maybe it is because there is a lot of data and browser has hard time with plotting the data.
Ask Hunter about technical issues - he created the website: https://phylogeographer.com/about-me/

It seems to work on my phone but not on the laptop .

Anyway, the pathway for my clade is very wayward indeed , and this only shows the inherent limitations of using mostly modern Y-DNA to plot ancient movements .

kostoffj
04-19-2018, 03:13 AM
The migration route for my clade of R1a (YP-263) is crazy - it enters Italy as R1a then to Austria, then the UK, then off to Poland, then Russia, back to Poland, then finally in the North Sea between Holland and Britain. Pretty sure that is not the ancestral wanderings of R1a - Z645>Z282>M458>L1029>YP263. Wonder how that was calculated?

angscoire
04-19-2018, 08:27 AM
The migration route for my clade of R1a (YP-263) is crazy - it enters Italy as R1a then to Austria, then the UK, then off to Poland, then Russia, back to Poland, then finally in the North Sea between Holland and Britain. Pretty sure that is not the ancestral wanderings of R1a - Z645>Z282>M458>L1029>YP263. Wonder how that was calculated?

It looks like a method based solely on modern DNA findings - in other words it is completely useless .R1a expanding from Italy ? A certain Italian on another forum will be pleased indeed !!!

Waldemar
04-19-2018, 08:43 AM
(FGC72553)>YP263 is currently most diverse in Germany, Poland and Sweden, but its original homeland is still a big unknown...https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RtqWyE3JCaNG6ns4PQjjwNVUL45yCJKNvkuEyoz-wrQ/edit?usp=sharing

leonardo
04-19-2018, 11:10 AM
(FGC72553)>YP263 is currently most diverse in Germany, Poland and Sweden, but its original homeland is still a big unknown...https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RtqWyE3JCaNG6ns4PQjjwNVUL45yCJKNvkuEyoz-wrQ/edit?usp=sharing

I am YP263 (and beyond). I have been listed as "unknown," although after using close autosomal matches, it appears that my patrilineage is from Poland. I believe the West Slavs are primarily responsible for its spread to the British Isles and Ireland through Vikings such as the Danes. We know that the West Slavs and Danes were intertwined in settlements and battles during the 9th, 10th and 11th centuries.

Waldemar
04-19-2018, 11:45 AM
I am YP263 (and beyond). I have been listed as "unknown," although after using close autosomal matches, it appears that my patrilineage is from Poland. I believe the West Slavs are primarily responsible for its spread to the British Isles and Ireland through Vikings such as the Danes. We know that the West Slavs and Danes were intertwined in settlements and battles during the 9th, 10th and 11th centuries.

It would be great if you could update country of origin on YFull and FTDNA.

Dibran
04-19-2018, 05:36 PM
(FGC72553)>YP263 is currently most diverse in Germany, Poland and Sweden, but its original homeland is still a big unknown...https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RtqWyE3JCaNG6ns4PQjjwNVUL45yCJKNvkuEyoz-wrQ/edit?usp=sharing

The highest diversity seems then to occur within the vicinity of where Goths/Vandals were situated. I have also read that Goths/Vandal may have been a genetic mix between Germanics and Slavs.

If Corded was already in Central Europe, and the largest contributor to Proto-Balto-Slavs, then, perhaps the cultural horizon of the Proto-Slavs was overlapping with Germanics already. Not all supposed Germanic tribes are confirmed as such. The Lugii is one of which is still out for debate on whether they were Germanic, Slavic or Celtic.

leonardo
04-19-2018, 07:47 PM
It would be great if you could update country of origin on YFull and FTDNA.

That is a good idea.

Darko
04-20-2018, 09:37 AM
nice, the migration route of R-YP1272-YP1276 was from north africa or middle east to Europe.

Theramster
04-20-2018, 01:19 PM
I'm not there either.

Grimbold
03-02-2019, 10:00 AM
Lol, my subclade (R-FGC11555, downstream to Z280) is Celtic (according to this data);)

03-02-2019, 11:07 AM
Lol, my subclade (R-FGC11555, downstream to Z280) is Celtic (according to this data);)

Maybe it’s dependant on which tribal grouping of peoples it might be more associated with?

Jan_Noack
06-23-2019, 10:27 PM
I am YP263 (and beyond)..https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
In this doc I also come out as FGC72553>YP263 and no other matches. What do the brackets around FGC72553 mean?

leonardo
06-24-2019, 12:16 AM
In this doc I also come out as FGC72553>YP263 and no other matches. What do the brackets around FGC72553 mean?

I believe that is one of the SNPs that is particular to your ydna. If I understand things, back in the day, when these deep ancestry tests first came out, Full Genomes Corp. would find novel SNPs, originally "private," as no other man had this. Once it was found among another man who was not closely related, it became "public" and then others could test for these SNPs.

leonardo
06-24-2019, 12:17 AM
DUPLICATE

Wolf-Deer
11-10-2019, 09:53 PM
Interesting, it suggests my subclade R1a-Z284 YP398 was formed in Sweden and 800BC.

I wonder then if it were the Geats or Swedes that brought it to England later during the migrational period.


34511

It's a shame it's a monthly subscription, and you can't give a one-off payment for the Y-DNA Storyline they offer.

Dibran
11-11-2019, 02:46 PM
Interesting, it suggests my subclade R1a-Z284 YP398 was formed in Sweden and 800BC.

I wonder then if it were the Geats or Swedes that brought it to England later during the migrational period.


34511

It's a shame it's a monthly subscription, and you can't give a one-off payment for the Y-DNA Storyline they offer.

Monthly subscription? Since when was that required for that site? I am assuming thats Phylogeographer?

If I am not mistaken that site(whilst very interesting) seems to be based mostly on theoretical algorithms. R1a-M417 for instance(or at least the oldest one) was found in Ukraine, not in north-west europe.

I could be wrong but I don't think anyone should have to pay for a theoretical platform.

Wolf-Deer
11-11-2019, 03:22 PM
Monthly subscription? Since when was that required for that site? I am assuming thats Phylogeographer?

If I am not mistaken that site(whilst very interesting) seems to be based mostly on theoretical algorithms. R1a-M417 for instance(or at least the oldest one) was found in Ukraine, not in north-west europe.

I could be wrong but I don't think anyone should have to pay for a theoretical platform.

It's on his 'Services' page,

https://phylogeographer.com/get-your-story/




I analyze your ancestors' computed migration path and write a short article, posted publicly under Stories summarizing:

Reliability of computed path
What groups they may have been associated with
What type of additional data might confirm or reject various hypotheses

Examples:

D-Z3660 The Ainu-Andaman Connection
I-Y15473 Atlantic Megalithic in Iberia
J-Y12000 Temnikov Tatars - The Black Sheep of J-L283

$12 per month includes this updated every six months along with Get On the Map service

Should you no longer wish to receive updates on your lineage's story you can downgrade to the $5 monthly Get On The Map subscription to remain on the map.

Dibran
11-11-2019, 03:31 PM
It's on his 'Services' page,

https://phylogeographer.com/get-your-story/

That just seems like a money grab on his part. I can understand a flat rate as you describe. Especially since its a theoretical evolving service. However, to continue paying? even after you don't want continuous updates, you need to still pay 5 dollars a month to stay on "his" map?

So we are basically just paying 144 dollars a year for what will most probably be some evidence mixed with his opinion?

Also, going through some "examples" there is barely much written beside a paragraph or two. It amounts to nothing more than pretty pictures, a map with questionable placements of some clades and as far as I can see, no sources for his "story".

Shouldn't have to pay monthly for theoretical analysis. So a one time fee for 12 dollars would be more sensible I think. That would be something I would do and I believe others as well.

Anything more than that is silly.

ph2ter
04-11-2020, 11:16 AM
https://i.imgur.com/CPtzOSb.png

Andour
04-11-2020, 01:48 PM
Congrats, Ph2ter... Next thing you have to do is... do the same for R1b!!!:amen:

ph2ter
04-11-2020, 06:16 PM
With terminal SNP:

https://i.imgur.com/ZA8Wos1.png