PDA

View Full Version : L21 Chromo2 tracking and results



Mikewww
10-04-2013, 01:26 PM
I think this has already been assembled, but I haven't found it yet. Can anyone point me to a current list of those who have Chromo2 on order? I know of at least one, but there must be quite a number.

fN54638 Walsh L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2 513-B2

Mikewww
10-04-2013, 08:34 PM
Alex W just posted on L21 Yahoo some additional Chromo2 people
fN22147 Chambers
f19822 Wilson

rms2
10-04-2013, 11:52 PM
Me: f59080 Stevens L21>DF13>DF41 B)

41-1123

JRW
10-05-2013, 03:24 AM
I ordered one as well: f65932 Wigand L21>DF13*.

rms2
10-06-2013, 01:40 AM
Harrington, kit f109174, has ordered Chromo2.

Brunetmj
10-08-2013, 06:50 PM
brunetmj kit 198135 L21>DF 13
ordered one

rms2
10-08-2013, 11:34 PM
I see David Reynolds has ordered Chromo2, as well.

RGM
10-09-2013, 12:24 AM
The news about M222 got me to pull the trigger. Ordered one this morning.

rms2
10-09-2013, 08:01 AM
The news about M222 got me to pull the trigger. Ordered one this morning.

I think that news is a hopeful sign for all of us. The results should be very interesting. I am really looking forward to them.

RGM
10-09-2013, 11:48 AM
I think that news is a hopeful sign for all of us. The results should be very interesting. I am really looking forward to them.

Definitely. And aside from what these results might teach us, I think a major perk is that the closer these markers get to the present, the easier it will be to recruit new people to surname projects. They provide more tangible reasons to test. I've just become an admin for the McFadden project. It's been up since 2004 but only had about 20 people in it when I took over. I've taken steps to get the word out, but it's not an easy sell. The wave of new markers coming in might help me out.

Celtarion
10-09-2013, 01:57 PM
Kit returned :)

f233265 Le Gall L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534*

rms2
10-12-2013, 09:26 PM
Here's a list of the L21+ guys I know of who have ordered the Chromo2 Y-DNA test (probably most have ordered the Y-DNA Raw test).

Harrington f109174 (L21>DF13>Z251)
Le Gall f233265 (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534)
MacMillan f47694 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Reynolds f20437 (L21>DF13>DF21>Z246>DF25>DF5>CTS3655)
Stevens f59080 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Walsh fN54638 (L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2)
Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)

I think there are more out there, but these are the ones I know of for sure.

rms2
10-13-2013, 01:51 PM
Here's a list of the L21+ guys I know of who have ordered the Chromo2 Y-DNA test (probably most have ordered the Y-DNA Raw test).

Harrington f109174 (L21>DF13>Z251)
Le Gall f233265 (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534)
MacMillan f47694 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Reynolds f20437 (L21>DF13>DF21>Z246>DF25>DF5>CTS3655)
Stevens f59080 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Walsh fN54638 (L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2)
Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)

I think there are more out there, but these are the ones I know of for sure.

Add Buchanan, f200481 (L21+ untested for DF13), to the list. B)

kaybee
10-13-2013, 04:43 PM
Did you order Chromo Complete or just ydna?

rms2
10-13-2013, 07:22 PM
Did you order Chromo Complete or just ydna?

I ordered the Chromo2 Complete.

RGM
10-13-2013, 08:03 PM
I just ordered the Chromo2 raw Y data. Cheapest option.

rms2
10-14-2013, 12:55 AM
This should be a more complete list. Hopefully I haven't overlooked anyone.

Brunet f198135 (L21>DF13)
Buchanan f200481 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Chambers fN22147 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Harrington f109174 (L21>DF13>Z251)
Le Gall f233265 (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534)
MacMillan f47694 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Reynolds f20437 (L21>DF13>DF21>Z246>DF25>DF5>CTS3655)
Stevens f59080 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Walsh fN54638 (L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2)
Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)
Wigand f65932 (L21>DF13)
Wilson f19822 (L21+, otherwise unknown - not in the R-L21 Plus Project)

(I would add you, RGM, but I don't know who you are.)

RGM
10-14-2013, 01:26 AM
This should be a more complete list. Hopefully I haven't overlooked anyone.

Brunet f198135 (L21>DF13)
Buchanan f200481 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Chambers fN22147 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Harrington f109174 (L21>DF13>Z251)
Le Gall f233265 (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534)
MacMillan f47694 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Reynolds f20437 (L21>DF13>DF21>Z246>DF25>DF5>CTS3655)
Stevens f59080 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Walsh fN54638 (L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2)
Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)
Wigand f65932 (L21>DF13)
Wilson f19822 (L21+, otherwise unknown - not in the R-L21 Plus Project)

(I would add you, RGM, but I don't know who you are.)

McFadden fB4058, M222+

rms2
10-14-2013, 01:30 AM
Thanks!

So here's the updated list:

Brunet f198135 (L21>DF13)
Buchanan f200481 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Chambers fN22147 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Harrington f109174 (L21>DF13>Z251)
Le Gall f233265 (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534)
MacMillan f47694 (L21>DF13>DF41)
McFadden fB4058 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Reynolds f20437 (L21>DF13>DF21>Z246>DF25>DF5>CTS3655)
Stevens f59080 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Walsh fN54638 (L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2)
Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)
Wigand f65932 (L21>DF13)
Wilson f19822 (L21+, otherwise unknown - not in the R-L21 Plus Project)

Celtarion
10-15-2013, 05:34 PM
Just got the email stating that they have received the kit and it is now processing. Results for xmas...?

rms2
10-15-2013, 07:22 PM
Just got the email stating that they have received the kit and it is now processing. Results for xmas...?

I hope it doesn't take that long!

Celtarion
10-15-2013, 08:49 PM
I hope it doesn't take that long!

"Please note, Chromo2 results will be available from September. For orders received thereafter, our typical turnaround time of 6-8 weeks will apply."

Results (http://support.britainsdna.com/entries/21545516-When-will-my-results-be-ready-)

rms2
10-15-2013, 09:31 PM
"Please note, Chromo2 results will be available from September. For orders received thereafter, our typical turnaround time of 6-8 weeks will apply."

Results (http://support.britainsdna.com/entries/21545516-When-will-my-results-be-ready-)

Yeah, I was told mine could take a couple of months, as well, and they are hoping to use my old original Ethnoancestry sample from the summer of 2006. I hope that works out! I don't want any extra delays!

David Wilson
10-16-2013, 11:05 PM
I'm doing the Chromo2 analysis. I suspect results will be delayed because I must submit a new DNA sample to them and haven't yet received the collection kit. My Ethnoancestry sample from years ago has been exhausted.

Wilson 8999 M222+.

I am also doing the FullGenomes complete Y. I'm in Batch 6, which I believe is an evaluation run at a lab different from the one that they expected to do all their processing when they set up operations.

David Wilson

rms2
10-17-2013, 12:10 AM
Thanks, David!

So, here's the current list:

Brunet f198135 (L21>DF13)
Buchanan f200481 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Chambers fN22147 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Harrington f109174 (L21>DF13>Z251)
Le Gall f233265 (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534)
MacMillan f47694 (L21>DF13>DF41)
McFadden fB4058 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Reynolds f20437 (L21>DF13>DF21>Z246>DF25>DF5>CTS3655)
Stevens f59080 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Walsh fN54638 (L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2)
Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)
Wigand f65932 (L21>DF13)
Wilson f8999 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Wilson f19822 (L21+, otherwise unknown - not in the R-L21 Plus Project)

Williamson
10-18-2013, 04:13 PM
Thanks, David!

So, here's the current list:

Brunet f198135 (L21>DF13)
Buchanan f200481 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Chambers fN22147 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Harrington f109174 (L21>DF13>Z251)
Le Gall f233265 (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534)
MacMillan f47694 (L21>DF13>DF41)
McFadden fB4058 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Reynolds f20437 (L21>DF13>DF21>Z246>DF25>DF5>CTS3655)
Stevens f59080 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Walsh fN54638 (L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2)
Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)
Wigand f65932 (L21>DF13)
Wilson f8999 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Wilson f19822 (L21+, otherwise unknown - not in the R-L21 Plus Project)

Both Wilson f19822 and Chambers fN22147 are L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190>S425. S425 isn't on the ISOGG tree yet, but should be eventually.

You can also add to the list:

Colson f32816 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)
Taylor f188409 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)
Williamson f196041 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)

Alex Williamson

Williamson
10-18-2013, 04:32 PM
I should add that yesterday, Colson (f32816) was found to be CTS1199+ in his Chromo2 results. CTS1199 was previously found near M35 in E. So this will be a second occurrence for this SNP. Chambers (fN22147), Wilson (f19822), Taylor (f188409) and Williamson (f196041) were all found to be CTS1199-. So this SNP is somewhere downstream of S190, but we don't know if it is private or not.

From what I understand from Jim Wilson, there are thousands of CTS SNPs that are not included on the Geno2.0 test, and this is one of them. Furthermore, there are about a few thousand of these CTS SNPs included on the Chromo2 test that were not included on Geno2.0.

Alex Williamson

rms2
10-18-2013, 10:17 PM
Thanks. Here's the updated list:

Brunet f198135 (L21>DF13)
Buchanan f200481 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Chambers fN22147 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190>S425)
Colson f32816 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)
Harrington f109174 (L21>DF13>Z251)
Le Gall f233265 (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534)
MacMillan f47694 (L21>DF13>DF41)
McFadden fB4058 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Reynolds f20437 (L21>DF13>DF21>Z246>DF25>DF5>CTS3655)
Stevens f59080 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Taylor f188409 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)
Walsh fN54638 (L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2)
Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)
Wigand f65932 (L21>DF13)
Williamson f196041 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)
Wilson f8999 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Wilson f19822 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190>S425)

Good to hear some Chromo2 results are rolling in. I figure mine won't arrive until late November or early December, but hope springs eternal.

rms2
10-18-2013, 10:22 PM
Both Wilson f19822 and Chambers fN22147 are L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190>S425. S425 isn't on the ISOGG tree yet, but should be eventually.

. . .

Wilson isn't in the R-L21 Plus Project, so I wasn't able to see his results, but Chambers is. Are those results from Chromo2? They don't show up in FTDNA.

Williamson
10-19-2013, 03:17 AM
Yes, Chambers S425 result is from Chromo2. His S424, S190, etc., results are from the previous ScotlandsDNA test. The Wilson is Jim Wilson, whose DNA was used to discover these S SNPs in the first place.

Alex Williamson

rms2
10-19-2013, 01:26 PM
Yes, Chambers S425 result is from Chromo2. His S424, S190, etc., results are from the previous ScotlandsDNA test. The Wilson is Jim Wilson, whose DNA was used to discover these S SNPs in the first place.

Alex Williamson

Ah, thanks.

It would be nice if the "scientific community" (I'm using quotes because I don't really like the overused word "community") could get together and standardize the names of these SNPs.

rms2
10-19-2013, 01:40 PM
Yes, Chambers S425 result is from Chromo2. His S424, S190, etc., results are from the previous ScotlandsDNA test. The Wilson is Jim Wilson, whose DNA was used to discover these S SNPs in the first place.

Alex Williamson

Thanks again. I created an S190+ category at the R-L21 Plus Project. You and Chambers are in it. If you know of any other R-L21 Plus Project members who belong in it, please let me know. I'll create an S425 category once S425 makes it onto ISOGG's tree.

David Wilson
10-19-2013, 09:57 PM
Jim Wilson is 3UEUC at Ysearch in case anyone wants to track DYS values in conjunction with recent SNP determinations.

Williamson
10-20-2013, 03:05 PM
If you know of any other R-L21 Plus Project members who belong in it, please let me know.

In the L21+ Project, the following men have tested S190+ at ScotlandsDNA:

32816 Colson
188409 Taylor
27994 Boggs


I don't know if the following men have been tested, but I suspect they would to fall into the S190+ group if tested:

124490 Johnson
62401 Savage
12461 Hinds
133832 Thompson


I Suspect the following to fall into S425+ group if tested:

130215 Sloan


There is also a special case which needs to be dealt with. Reddin is the only man tested to date who is S424+, but S190-. All of the other S424+ men are also S190+.

133832 Reddin

Regards,
Alex

rms2
10-21-2013, 09:37 PM
Okay, thanks. I added the S190+ guys to the appropriate category and created an S424+ category for Reddin.

I can foresee a time in the near future when I may have to cut the categories back to just the catchall major branches. As new public SNPs proliferate, keeping our 2,500+ members properly sorted is becoming an administrative nightmare.

rms2
10-22-2013, 12:04 PM
Here's another updated list of L21+ Chromo2 testers:

Brunet f198135 (L21>DF13)
Buchanan f200481 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Chambers fN22147 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190>S425)
Colson f32816 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)
Harrington f109174 (L21>DF13>Z251)
Le Gall f233265 (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534)
Looper f260814 (L21>DF13>L1335>L1065)
MacMillan f47694 (L21>DF13>DF41)
McFadden fB4058 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Preston f270944 (L21>DF13>L1335>L1065>L743)
Reynolds f20437 (L21>DF13>DF21>Z246>DF25>DF5>CTS3655)
Stevens f59080 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Taylor f188409 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)
Walsh fN54638 (L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2)
Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)
Wigand f65932 (L21>DF13)
Williamson f196041 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)
Wilson f8999 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Wilson f19822 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190>S425)

cilldara
10-23-2013, 08:14 AM
I didn't take the Chromo2 test but I looked up my results on Full Genomes and I am negative for both DF85 and
DF97.

Dubhthach
10-25-2013, 01:31 PM
I didn't take the Chromo2 test but I looked up my results on Full Genomes and I am negative for both DF85 and
DF97.

How many unique SNP's were found in your sample?

-Paul
(DF41+)

Mikewww
10-29-2013, 01:41 AM
Here is the latest list that I've seen of L21 people in Chromo 2. I think there are a few more M222 people we don't have tabs on.

Bennett fB1047 (L21>DF13>L1335>L1065)
Brunet f198135 (L21>DF13)
Buchanan f200481 (L21+ untested for DF13)
Burns f30771 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Callahan f201623 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Cameron f285203 (L21>DF13>L1335>L1065)
Chambers fN22147 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190>S425)
Colson f32816 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)
Conry f218112 (L21>DF13>DF21)
Crawford f180639 (L21+, awaiting DF13 result)
Creer f35212 (L21>DF13>DF41>L563)
Davitt f251441 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222>DF85)
Gardiner f219571 (L21>DF13>L513>L706.2)
Halligan f143812 (L21>DF13>L1335>L1065)
Harrington f109174 (L21>DF13>Z251)
Le Gall f233265 (L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534)
Looper f260814 (L21>DF13>L1335>L1065)
MacMillan f47694 (L21>DF13>DF41)
MacMillan f48641 (L21>DF13>L1335>L1065)
Maher fN3362 (L21>DF13>DF21)
McBride f235771 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
McFadden fB4058 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
McIlveen f23269 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
McNally f198682 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Preston f270944 (L21>DF13>L1335>L1065>L743)
Reynolds f20437 (L21>DF13>DF21>Z246>DF25>DF5>CTS3655)
Stevens f59080 (L21>DF13>DF41)
Taylor f188409 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)
Templeton f63127 (L21>DF13>L1335>L1065>L743)
Walsh fN54638 (L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2)
Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)
Whelan fB3060 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Wigand f65932 (L21>DF13)
Williamson f196041 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190)
Wilson f8999 (L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222)
Wilson f19822 (L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190>S425)

Mikewww
10-29-2013, 01:42 AM
I didn't take the Chromo2 test but I looked up my results on Full Genomes and I am negative for both DF85 and DF97.

Cilldara, can you tell what your values are at the new SNPs under M222 that Chromo 2 says they have identified? They are S series SNPs and I don't know if they provide the actual standard SNP addresses.

Dubhthach
10-29-2013, 10:11 AM
Cilldara, can you tell what your values are at the new SNPs under M222 that Chromo 2 says they have identified? They are S series SNPs and I don't know if they provide the actual standard SNP addresses.

As far as I know ScotlandsDNA hasn't release the positional data for these SNP's. In which case it wouldn't be possible to check for them in existing datasets (1000 genomes for example). Hopefully they will release them soon as I it will probably be needed so as to get them onto ISOGG etc.

-Paul
(DF41+)

Mikewww
10-30-2013, 12:20 PM
As far as I know ScotlandsDNA hasn't release the positional data for these SNP's. In which case it wouldn't be possible to check for them in existing datasets (1000 genomes for example). Hopefully they will release them soon as I it will probably be needed so as to get them onto ISOGG etc.
Have they announced plans to identify the addresses/locations of the SNPs they've discovered?

Here is the current list of Chromo 2 people that are L21 proven that have the package on order or have their results already.

f200481 Buchanan Scotland R1b-P312>L21 z4371418
fN22147 Chambers England R1b-P312>L21 21-5909-LS
fB4810 Hammond England R1b-P312>L21 zL21unassigned
f180639 zzzUnk(Crawford) Scotland R1b-P312>L21 zL21unassigned
f198135 Brunet France R1b-P312>L21>DF13 zDF13unassigned
f65932 Wigand Germany R1b-P312>L21>DF13 zDF13unassigned
f289737 Willis England R1b-P312>L21>DF13 zDF13unassigned
f290447 Brown zzCountry R1b-P312>L21>DF13>CTS4466+ 4466-T2
f218112 Conroy Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF21 21-5909-A
fN3362 Maher Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF21 21-5909-A
f196041 Williamson Scotland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF21 21-5909-LS
f32816 Colson England R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190+ 21-5909-LS
f188409 Taylor Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190+ 21-5909-LS
f19822 Wilson Scotland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF21>S424>S190+ 21-5909-LS
f20437 Reynolds zzCountry R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF21>Z246>DF25>DF5>CTS3655>L627>L626+ 21-246-255-3655-627
f59080 Stevens zzCountry R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF41 41-1123
f47694 MacMillan Scotland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF41** 41- uas
f35212 McCrere Scotland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF41>L563+ 41-563-1411
f30771 Burns Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222 49-2329222- uas
f201623 Callahan Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222 49-2329222- uas
fB3060 Early Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222 49-2329222- uas
f231979 Guinn zzCountry R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222 49-2329222-44927
f235771 McBride Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222 49-2329222- uas
fB4058 McFadden Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222 49-2329222- uas
f223269 McIlveen Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222 49-2329222- uas
f198682 McNally Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222 49-2329222-55717
f118913 Paterson Scotland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222 49-2329222-48714
f8999 Wilson Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222 49-2329222-55717
f251441 Devitt Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222>DF85 49-2329222-1922-A
f16646 Conroy Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF49>DF23>Z2961>M222>PF1169+ 49-2329222-48714-A
fB1047 Bennett zzCountry R1b-P312>L21>DF13>L1335>L1065 1335-Sc
f285203 Cameron Scotland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>L1335>L1065 1335-Sc
f260814 Loooper zzCountry R1b-P312>L21>DF13>L1335>L1065 1335-Sc
f48641 MacMillan Scotland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>L1335>L1065* 1335-Sc-2213
f143812 MacRae Scotland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>L1335>L1065** 1335-Sc-2424
fN44383 Tate Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>L1335>L1065** 1335-Sc
f270944 Preston Scotland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>L1335>L1065>L743+ 1335-Sc-743
f63127 Templeton Scotland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>L1335>L1065>L743+ 1335-Sc-743
f219571 Gardner England R1b-P312>L21>DF13>L513>L706.2* 513-B2-706-X
fN54638 Walsh Ireland R1b-P312>L21>DF13>L513>L706.2>L705.2+ 513-B2-706-W2
f109174 Harrington zzCountry R1b-P312>L21>DF13>Z251* 251- uas
f233265 Le Gall France R1b-P312>L21>DF13>Z253>Z2534 253-2534- uas

Mikewww
11-14-2013, 12:25 AM
I've got the following noted as L21/S145 people who have Chromo 2 on order or completed. I count 131.

f14555 MackMillion 1335-1065-1922-13
f48641 MacMillan 1335-1065-1922-13
fB1047 Bennett 1335-1065-Sc
f285203 Cameron 1335-1065-Sc
f260814 Loooper 1335-1065-Sc
f57711 McDonald 1335-1065-Sc
fN44383 Tate 1335-1065-Sc
f143812 MacRae 1335-1065-Sc2424
f270944 Preston 1335-1065-Sc-743
f63127 Templeton 1335-1065-Sc-743
f20437 Reynolds 21-246-255-3655-627
f218112 Conroy 21-5909-1336\
fN3362 Maher 21-5909-1336\
fN22147 Chambers 21-5909-LS
f32816 Colson 21-5909-LS
f188409 Taylor 21-5909-LS
f196041 Williamson 21-5909-LS
f19822 Wilson 21-5909-LS
f39409 McMahon 21-n922-A1
f109174 Harrington 251- uas
f149770 zzzUnknown 253-1716-Mc-825
f233265 Le Gall 253-2534- uas
f64633 Keefe 255-1411
f202249 McMahon 255-1411
f100136 Phelps 255-1411
f49867 McConnell 255-1412
f141428 McConnell 255-1412
f105824 Whelan 255-1830-11
f74904 McHale 255-1830-21
f96964 Anderson 255-1830-IS
fN12360 Anderson 255-1830-IS
f35805 Aspel 255-1830-IS
f174285 Bradley 255-1830-IS
f12691 Carmack 255-1830-IS
f74201 Dillon 255-1830-IS
f159523 Dooley 255-1830-IS
f89389 Ferguson 255-1830-IS
f151633 Fitzpatrick 255-1830-IS
fN17860 Foley 255-1830-IS
f175090 Gibbons 255-1830-IS
f43474 Mackenzie 255-1830-IS
f166364 McFarren 255-1830-IS
f38554 McInvale 255-1830-IS
f85858 Owen 255-1830-IS
f131768 Plummer 255-1830-IS
f85055 Quigley 255-1830-IS
f95057 Robinson 255-1830-IS
f142007 Shingleton 255-1830-IS
f48933 Stephens 255-1830-IS
fN82019 Synnset(Melhus) 255-1830-IS
f53904 zzzUnknown 255-1830-IS
fN47848 Adams 255-1830-IS-A
f131133 Cullen 255-1830-IS-A
f125806 Duoos 255-1830-IS-A
f96196 Jewett 255-1830-IS-A
f147668 Lawrence 255-1830-IS-A
f158919 Mckeanlaich 255-1830-IS-A
f129234 McKee 255-1830-IS-A
f138281 Rennie 255-1830-IS-A
f82065 Baity 255-1830-IS-B1
f66478 Baldwin 255-1830-IS-B1
f87861 Beattie 255-1830-IS-B1
f3055 Beattie 255-1830-IS-B1
f42452 Beattie 255-1830-IS-B1
f3032 Beatty 255-1830-IS-B1
f158241 Betty 255-1830-IS-B1
f148922 Brock 255-1830-IS-B1
f33100 Doty 255-1830-IS-B1
f84037 McLaughlin 255-1830-IS-B1
f29761 Spence 255-1830-IS-B1
f35733 Spence 255-1830-IS-B1
fN2553 Weymouth 255-1830-IS-B1
fN2871 Burns 255-1830-IS-B2
f31911 Byrne 255-1830-IS-B2
f45482 Byrne 255-1830-IS-B2
f14738 Carmack 255-1830-IS-B2
f72665 D'Arcy 255-1830-IS-C
f229505 Doyle 255-1830-IS-C
f92117 Kavanagh 255-1830-IS-C
f96585 Kavanagh 255-1830-IS-C
f166226 Ryan 255-1830-IS-C
f55943 Schneider 255-1830-IS-C
f92891 Downing 255-1830-IS-D
f11681 Ireland 255-1830-IS-D
f65178 Welsh 255-1830-IS-D
f169910 Fields 255-1830-IS-G
fN38274 Gaston 255-1830-IS-G
f140816 Gaston 255-1830-IS-G
f5074 Byrne 255-1830-IS-M
f138193 Flynn 255-1830-IS-M
f173273 Fowler 255-1830-IS-M
f9002 Jordan 255-1830-IS-M
f85603 McDonald 255-1830-IS-M
f51942 Megehee 255-1830-IS-M
f185218 Murphy 255-1830-IS-M
f47694 MacMillan 41- uas
f59080 Stevens 41-1123
f35212 McCrere 41-563-1411
f290447 Brown 4466-T2
f30771 Burns 49-2329222- uas
f201623 Callahan 49-2329222- uas
fB3060 Early 49-2329222- uas
f155225 Ford 49-2329222- uas
f235771 McBride 49-2329222- uas
fB4058 McFadden 49-2329222- uas
f223269 McIlveen 49-2329222- uas
f231979 Guinn 49-2329222-44927
f118913 Paterson 49-2329222-48714
f16646 Conroy 49-2329222-48714-A
f198682 McNally 49-2329222-55717
f8999 Wilson 49-2329222-55717
f251441 Devitt 49-23292228- uas
f46951 Ferguson 513-A1-193- uas
f29834 McGregor 513-A1-193-G
f41466 Kelly(Kildare) 513-A3-K
f129562 Kelly(Kildare) 513-A3-K
fN54638 Walsh 513-B2-706-W2
f219571 Gardner 513-B2-706-X
f200481 Buchanan z4371418
f33413 Andersen(Nordland) z4871418-N
f2224 McCeney z9919-A5
f198135 Brunet zDF13unassigned
f84034 Hamon zDF13unassigned
f88876 Kepler zDF13unassigned
f65932 Wigand zDF13unassigned
f289737 Willis zDF13unassigned
f119065 De Vasconcelos zL21unassigned
fB4810 Hammond zL21unassigned
f122950 Pruett zL21unassigned
f180639 zzzUnk(Crawford) zL21unassigned
f256386 zzzUnknown zL21unassigned

Mikewww
11-15-2013, 03:19 AM
Are there any updates on Chromo 2 orders?

Celtarion
11-15-2013, 10:24 AM
It seems to be very soon from now, the status has changed stating the following on my account:

Due to the scale of data resulting from our Chromo2 testing, we are still processing the results for All My Ancestry and this component of your results will be available later. We will notify you as soon as it is ready.

Also, I read on FB that some people got their results last night.

Mikewww
11-15-2013, 02:18 PM
It seems to be very soon from now, the status has changed stating the following on my account:

Due to the scale of data resulting from our Chromo2 testing, we are still processing the results for All My Ancestry and this component of your results will be available later. We will notify you as soon as it is ready.

Also, I read on FB that some people got their results last night.

Thank you. Do I have the right list below of 131 Chromo 2's pending and completed for L21?

Brunetmj
11-18-2013, 01:50 AM
In case anyone had an interest here is the time line for my test

Today's date 11/17/13
Ordered 9/2/2013
Kit received 9/14
Mailed back 9/19
Received at lab 10/1
No results as of today - SNP raw data only

cilldara
11-18-2013, 03:35 PM
I've ordered the Chromo2 Raw YDNA test.

cilldara
11-19-2013, 01:22 PM
This is just a heads up for anyone from the Republic of Ireland (southern Ireland) who is testing with BritainsDNA.

Liquids are no longer allowed to be sent through regular post to mainland UK. This is due to restrictions placed by the airlines that deliver mail.

You have to pay a delivery charge. BritainsDNA arrange for UPS to deliver the kit to your house. When your sample is ready to be sent back, you ring BritainsDNA and they will arrange for the courier to pick up your sample from your house. This is very handy. And you don't have to pay when returning the sample as the return delivery is included.

Mikewww
11-19-2013, 02:18 PM
I've ordered the Chromo2 Raw YDNA test.

If you are not already on the list, please list your kit # and I'll add you.


BTW, I'm hearing very good things about subdivisions in L1335 and in CTS4466 that BISDNA is finding.

cilldara
11-19-2013, 03:15 PM
If you are not already on the list, please list your kit # and I'll add you.

Kit number -145320: Byrne

MacUalraig
11-19-2013, 07:01 PM
This is just a heads up for anyone from the Republic of Ireland (southern Ireland) who is testing with BritainsDNA.

Liquids are no longer allowed to be sent through regular post to mainland UK. This is due to restrictions placed by the airlines that deliver mail.

You have to pay a delivery charge. BritainsDNA arrange for UPS to deliver the kit to your house. When your sample is ready to be sent back, you ring BritainsDNA and they will arrange for the courier to pick up your sample from your house. This is very handy. And you don't have to pay when returning the sample as the return delivery is included.

Thanks for the heads up on this!

cilldara
11-19-2013, 07:38 PM
Thanks for the heads up on this!

No problem!

I forgot to mention, but the cost of delivery is £13.

Celtarion
11-29-2013, 01:44 PM
BritainsDNA has just published the results, I quickly had a look and they have presented the results as follow: R1b-S145 Your Genetic Signature

Which of course I knew that since a while. I'll have a look at the markers later on in details as I'm currently travelling in Brittany this week and I'll be back in Ireland from Tuesday. So, anyone who wants to discuss about it, please feel free.

Mikewww
11-29-2013, 10:53 PM
BritainsDNA has just published the results, I quickly had a look and they have presented the results as follow: R1b-S145 Your Genetic Signature ...

Please upload your Genetic Signature .txt (notepad) file of derived/positive SNPs into the Chromo 2 results folder of this R1b-L21-Yahoo group. Please use the FTDNA kit # (or if Ysearch ID if you don't have a kit #) as the start of the .txt file name.

This is the link to the Chromo 2 Folder underneath Files at the R1b-L21-Project yahoo group.
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/files/Chromo_2_L21_S145_results

I just uploaded mine. I named it
fN54638_Walsh_GS.txt

I added the "f" so you know the identifier is the FTDNA kit # (like the spreadsheet does and my MDKA surname as a double check. I also added "GS" for Genetic Signature.

I haven't seen how to download my Chromo 2 raw results yet but when I do I'll upload it as a spreadsheet file named
fN54638_Walsh_RAW.xls

I will take the Genetic Signature .txt files and add them together as rows in a spreadsheet. Effectively that will be a spreadsheet version for Chromo 2 of what FTDNA produces on their project screens as a Y DNA SNP report. Then I will be able to include them in the R1b-L21_Haplotypes spreadsheet with haplogroup labeling and relevant SNPs updated for Chromo 2. Essentially that will make the spreadsheet into a combo FTDNA/BISDNA(Chromo 2) report, without manual entries of SNP results (hurrah!).

David C has already done some comparisons.

Celtarion
11-30-2013, 09:47 AM
Please upload your Genetic Signature .txt (notepad) file of derived/positive SNPs into the Chromo 2 results folder of this R1b-L21-Yahoo group. Please use the FTDNA kit # (or if Ysearch ID if you don't have a kit #) as the start of the .txt file name.


I have uploaded the results in the Yahoo! group, I have no clue where is the raw data... I tried all the option, but I'm sure, I missed something. :-)

hoxgi
12-01-2013, 05:25 AM
I've compared the Chromo 2.0 SNPs of the first two Z253+ kits to post their results - Le Gall f233265 and Buchanan f200481. Le Gall has previously tested Z253+ Z2534+ with FTDNA.

Le Gall has three SNPs which Buchanan does not: CTS11226, PF4432 and s868.
Buchanan has six SNPs which Le Gall does not: CTS1414, CTS927, s2906, s10266, s13801 and s9040.

I have checked McClure's FG results and he is negative for all nine of these SNPs. He is Z253+ as well.

However the interpretation is difficult because all three of these kits have tested PF825+; McClure with Geno 2.0 and the two others with Chromo 2.0. Le Gall cannot be PF825.2+ because he is Z2534+ and these are parallel SNPs immediately below Z253.

Also, Rich Stevens (DF41+) has posted elsewhere that he is PF825+ in his Chromo 2.0 results.

Finally, McClure's FG results do not include PF825 at all as far as I can see.

Any thoughts ?

Greg H

Celtarion
12-01-2013, 10:24 AM
I've compared the Chromo 2.0 SNPs of the first two Z253+ kits to post their results - Le Gall f233265 and Buchanan f200481. Le Gall has previously tested Z253+ Z2534+ with FTDNA.

Le Gall has three SNPs which Buchanan does not: CTS11226, PF4432 and s868.
Buchanan has six SNPs which Le Gall does not: CTS1414, CTS927, s2906, s10266, s13801 and s9040.

I have checked McClure's FG results and he is negative for all nine of these SNPs. He is Z253+ as well.

However the interpretation is difficult because all three of these kits have tested PF825+; McClure with Geno 2.0 and the two others with Chromo 2.0. Le Gall cannot be PF825.2+ because he is Z2534+ and these are parallel SNPs immediately below Z253.

Also, Rich Stevens (DF41+) has posted elsewhere that he is PF825+ in his Chromo 2.0 results.

Finally, McClure's FG results do not include PF825 at all as far as I can see.

Any thoughts ?

Greg H

Hi Greg,

I noticed that when I got the results but was travelling at the same time, I've been confused as to know why it was showing PF825+ according to Morley's DNA tree. I haven't checked the other kits, but it was strange to see it.

According to Geno 2.0 DNA testing they don't show PF825+ for myself and my father.

And as you have mentioned in your previous post, FTDNA have tested 3 of my family members as Z2534+.

Could it be a mistake made by BrittainsDNA?

Joss

Wolds Wanderer
12-01-2013, 11:21 AM
Hi,

Chromo2 is showing that I'm also positive for PF825. I am negative for everything currently placed downstream of DF13 as well as DF63. Positive for L21 and a novel SNP PF5191 (confirming my Geno 2.0 result). Chromo2 doesn't appear to test for DF13, but I have a positive result from FTDNA for that one.

It isn't specified which variety of PF825 is being tested here. My interpretation is that it is an ancestral SNP from A (PF825.1), in the same way that I also have positive results for L1002, L1013, and L1053 from A1 and L1098, L1105 and L1123 from A0-T, amongst many others. Either that, or perhaps it is a glitch on the chip.

Keith

hoxgi
12-01-2013, 12:51 PM
There seem to be at least two possibilities for these F825+ results.

First, it could be an unstable SNP, like L69, which I think is up to about L69.5 now. The instability means that the same mutation occurs independently at more than position in the Y-tree, so it cannot be regarded as a unique genetic event; I think the terminology is UEP, for unique event polymorphism and the SNP is considered recurrent. However a number of SNPs are now known to occur at least twice, including L1066, and more will probably turn up in multi-SNP tests such as Full Genomes, Big Y and Chromo 2.0.

Second, it could be a problem with the chip used by Britain's DNA, the company doing the Chromo 2.0 tests. There were some false positives in the early Geno 2.0 results, which were recognised and addressed by some of our citizen scientists, presumably in collaboration with FTDNA. The same situation may have occurred in the early Chromo 2.0 results.

I suspect that it's more likely to be a technical problem with PF825 than an unstable SNP, because PF825 is included in Geno 2.0 and has also been tested from the a la carte FTDNA menu by several members of the Z253 Project, without turning up any inconsistent or unexpected PF825+ results, as far as I am aware.

Perhaps one or two of the unexpected PF825+ results in Chromo 2.0 should be checked by Sanger sequencing. I don't have the technical expertise to offer any more specific suggestions.

Greg H

Celtarion
12-01-2013, 01:59 PM
With FGC DNA testing results coming in Jan or Feb, it may answer the question. So when I'll get the results, we will know more.

Joss

hoxgi
12-01-2013, 10:37 PM
According to Geno 2.0 DNA testing they don't show PF825+ for myself and my father.

And as you have mentioned in your previous post, FTDNA have tested 3 of my family members as Z2534+.

Could it be a mistake made by BrittainsDNA?

Joss

Hi Joss

I have checked David Reynold's table of Geno 2.0 results and he has you as PF825-, which means that he checked the raw data and you were definitely negative for PF825; it wasn't a no-call.

So you are PF825- by Geno 2.0 and PF825+ by Chromo 2.0.

Given the other unexpected PF825+ results we are seeing in Chromo 2.0, I think you should email them about your PF825 result and see what they have to say.

Greg H

Celtarion
12-02-2013, 12:09 AM
Hi Joss

I have checked David Reynold's table of Geno 2.0 results and he has you as PF825-, which means that he checked the raw data and you were definitely negative for PF825; it wasn't a no-call.

So you are PF825- by Geno 2.0 and PF825+ by Chromo 2.0.

Given the other unexpected PF825+ results we are seeing in Chromo 2.0, I think you should email them about your PF825 result and see what they have to say.

Greg H

Hi Greg,

I sent an email early in the afternoon to get some clarification, however I got the answer that due too high number of emails it may take longer than usual to answer the emails.

An other question, does it mean that Chromo2 don't test Z2534?

Joss

hoxgi
12-02-2013, 02:34 PM
Joss, disappointingly for us Z253+ types it appears that Z2534, Z2185 and Z2184 may not be included in Chromo 2.0. There is a Cromo 2.0 result which is L1066+, surname Barry, in the L21+ Yahoo group, which should be positive for these 3 SNPs, but they are not listed in the positive SNPs. I haven't tried to check for negative results to exclude no-calls, but sus pect that all three being no-calls is very unlikely. Also, your Z2534+ result did not show up in your own Chromo 2.0 results.

However, the Barry kit was positive for Z2183 and Z2186. Z2183 is currently equivalent to L1066 and so downstream from Z2185 and Z2184. It is possible that we may find a Chromo 2.0 result which is Z2183+ and L1066-, which would then reposition L1066 below Z2183.

Z2186 is not available from FTDNA, so its inclusion in Chromo 2.0 could be interesting as well. Z2182, Z2183, Z2184, Z2185 and Z2186 were all found in the same Z253+ person in the 1000 Genomes Project. FTDNA only developed primers for the middle three. So Z2186 could be at any level from just below Z2534 down to below L1066.

As far as I can tell from the ISOGG SNP index, none of these Z SNPs have alternative names either.

Greg H

MacUalraig
12-02-2013, 04:05 PM
I checked Z2534, Z2185 and Z2184 in my complete raw Chromo2 file and none of them are present.

Celtarion
12-03-2013, 11:37 PM
Joss, disappointingly for us Z253+ types it appears that Z2534, Z2185 and Z2184 may not be included in Chromo 2.0. There is a Cromo 2.0 result which is L1066+, surname Barry, in the L21+ Yahoo group, which should be positive for these 3 SNPs, but they are not listed in the positive SNPs. I haven't tried to check for negative results to exclude no-calls, but sus pect that all three being no-calls is very unlikely. Also, your Z2534+ result did not show up in your own Chromo 2.0 results.

However, the Barry kit was positive for Z2183 and Z2186. Z2183 is currently equivalent to L1066 and so downstream from Z2185 and Z2184. It is possible that we may find a Chromo 2.0 result which is Z2183+ and L1066-, which would then reposition L1066 below Z2183.

Z2186 is not available from FTDNA, so its inclusion in Chromo 2.0 could be interesting as well. Z2182, Z2183, Z2184, Z2185 and Z2186 were all found in the same Z253+ person in the 1000 Genomes Project. FTDNA only developed primers for the middle three. So Z2186 could be at any level from just below Z2534 down to below L1066.

As far as I can tell from the ISOGG SNP index, none of these Z SNPs have alternative names either.

Greg H

Yes, it is very disappointing, but anyway, we now know that it is not tested anyway. BritainsDNA didn't answer my email yet, when I'll get the answer, I'll let you know.

Mikewww
12-04-2013, 10:30 PM
It is imperative that R1b-S145 (L21) people save their Chromo 2 Genetic signature .txt files at the R1b-L21-Project yahoo group file folder designated for this purpose.
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/files/Chromo_2_L21_S145_results

For more information, please see this post.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?791-R1b-L21-Phylogeny-(SNP-based-family-tree)&p=22021&viewfull=1#post22021

I'm looking for the Chromo 2 Genetic Signature of derived/positive SNPs only in the .txt file format.

For example here is mine. I named the file fN54638_Walsh_GS.txt because the "f" + kit # is used in the large R1b-L21_Haplotypes spreadsheet as the identifier. I need to know what individual haplotype to associate the Chromo 2 Genetic Signature with. This way I'll be able to merge these results in with the Geno 2 and a la carte Y DNA SNP (project) report results to produce a true haplogroup label and list of relevant (only) SNPs. Here is what is inside the my .txt file. I copied and pasted right off the BISDNA Chromo 2 results screen:
CTS10008+, CTS10149+, CTS11150+, CTS11226+, CTS11468+, CTS11575+, CTS11744+, CTS11948+, CTS11991+, CTS12057+, CTS12633+, CTS12773+, CTS1738+, CTS2134+, CTS2254+, CTS2480+, CTS2569+, CTS2664+, CTS3229+, CTS3315+, CTS3316+, CTS3358+, CTS3654+, CTS3818+, CTS3844+, CTS4293+, CTS4437+, CTS4740+, CTS4944+, CTS5139(+), CTS5248+, CTS524+, CTS543+, CTS6327+, CTS6376+, CTS6383+, CTS6445+, CTS6621+, CTS6942+, CTS7206+, CTS7301+, CTS7604+, CTS7659+, CTS7922+, CTS7941+, CTS8221+, CTS8627+, CTS8728+, CTS8890+, CTS9200+, CTS9556+, CTS9760+, F1794+, L1002+, L1013+, L1053+, L1084+, L1098+, L1105+, L1118+, L1123+, L1129+, L1130+, L1137+, L1143+, L1145+, L1150+, L1179+, L1220+, L132+, L1345+, L1350+, L1352+, L265+, L278+, L320+, L352+, L438+, L440+, L468+, L470+, L479+, L498+, L508+, L543+, L58+, L604+, L741+, L752+, L757+, L768+, L773+, L822+, L82+, L875+, L882+, L969+, M213+, M235+, M294+, M299+, M415+, M42+, M523+, M526+, M74+, P128+, P131+, P135+, P139+, P140+, P141+, P142+, P143+, P151+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P163+, P224+, P225+, P226+, P229+, P230+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P236+, P239+, P242+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P282+, P284+, P285+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, PAGE081+, PAGE083+, PF1030+, PF1067+, PF1081+, PF1252+, PF1253+, PF1416+, PF1695+, PF1911+, PF256+, PF2590+, PF2592+, PF2615+, PF2617+, PF2619+, PF2621+, PF2622+, PF2624+, PF2626+, PF2629+, PF2651+, PF2653+, PF2655+, PF2658+, PF2660+, PF2677+, PF2679+, PF2683+, PF2684+, PF2685+, PF2688+, PF2690+, PF2700+, PF2702+, PF2704+, PF2709+, PF2716+, PF2718+, PF2722+, PF2734+, PF2736+, PF2737+, PF2739+, PF2742+, PF2747+, PF2748+, PF2760+, PF2762+, PF2775+, PF3495+, PF3500+, PF5459+, PF5461+, PF5480+, PF5495+, PF5857+, PF5861+, PF5865+, PF5869+, PF5870+, PF5872+, PF5873+, PF5885+, PF5887+, PF5893+, PF5898+, PF5908+, PF5912+, PF5914+, PF5917+, PF5918+, PF5923+, PF5927+, PF5936+, PF5940+, PF5941+, PF5945+, PF5949+, PF5953+, PF5957+, PF5958+, PF5964+, PF5966+, PF5977+, PF5980+, PF5981+, PF5982+, PF6016+, PF6040+, PF6047+, PF6055+, PF6056+, PF6063+, PF6065+, PF6079+, PF6082+, PF6114+, PF6115+, PF6116+, PF6129+, PF6136+, PF6143+, PF6145+, PF6242+, PF6246+, PF6249+, PF6252+, PF6258+, PF6263+, PF6265+, PF6267+, PF6269+, PF626+, PF6271+, PF6272+, PF6399+, PF6409+, PF6410+, PF6419+, PF6429+, PF6430+, PF6432+, PF6434+, PF6435+, PF643+, PF6443+, PF6451+, PF6463+, PF6467+, PF6469+, PF6471+, PF6475+, PF6481+, PF6484+, PF6487+, PF6495+, PF6497+, PF6506+, PF6507+, PF6524+, PF6528+, PF653+, PF6541+, PF679+, PF733+, PF744+, PF825+, PF834+, PF869+, PF948+, S10738+, S11330+, S1159+, S11638+, S116+, S12547(+), S128+, S13801+, S138+, S145+, S1572+, S16059+, S163(+), S19777+, S1984(+), S19862(+), S1+, S2003+, S2017+, S20246+, S20315+, S215+, S26361+, S26903+, S26911+, S27544+, S27668+, S279+, S3023+, S349+, S3509+, S351+, S3826+, S3848+, S3+, S4276+, S461+, S4888+, S4+, S5191+, S5194+, S5196+, S5681+, S583+, S6365+, S6378+, S6814+, S8235+, S8587+, S8709+, S8889+, S9041+, S9158+, S959+, SRY10831(+), V102+, V104+, V126+, V168+, V186+, V187+, V221+, V226+, V231+, V241+, V244+, V29+, V41+, V52+, V9+, YSC0167+, YSC0186+, YSC0203+, YSC0227+, YSC1297+, Z1244+

When I compared my mine with Alex W's I found each of us had several positive/derived SNPs unique. Some of that may be just because of a "no call" in the other. Therefore, looking at raw results of actual allele values is still important but at least this will help do comparisons quickly so that we can figure out which SNPs need more evaluation.

BTW, we can easily handle the M222 guys in this too. They are part of the family and I know a good number of them are into Chromo 2. All L21+/S145+ are welcome.

Celtarion
12-05-2013, 01:30 PM
Just got the answer from Chromo2. To be honest, I'm not experienced enough to fully understand the meaning of what Laura said, maybe some of you may have a better understanding :)


Laura Marshall, Dec 05 11:57 (GMT):
Dear Joss,
Thank you for getting in touch. PF825 is one of those markers that occurred deep in the Y tree (at the BT branch) and then back-mutated again beneath Z253. So although your result says that you are positive, you actually do not carry the backmutation that defines this cluster. Thank you for bringing this to our attention - we will update our result outputs to report this SNP as a backmutation, rather than a normal SNP (as currently reported). For backmutation SNPs we have the system of reporting "-" if one is truly negative (i.e. anyone in haplogroup A for this SNP); "(+)" if one carries the inital change (i.e. anyone under BT on the tree (including you) for PF825) - the brackets signify that
although positive, this is not the "interesting" variant; and "!" for anyone who carries the backmutation (i.e. is negative AND beneath BT on the tree)- which is what defines the PF825 cluster beneath Z253 (which you do not belong to).
We will update all Y results in the coming weeks, and your result will then be modified to read: PF825(+).
I hope this makes sense and that you are reassured that there is no discrepancy between your Chromo2 and FTDNA results.
If you have any further queries then please don't hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,
Laura
Inside all of us lies a hidden history...

Mikewww
12-05-2013, 03:55 PM
It is imperative that R1b-S145 (L21) people save their Chromo 2 Genetic signature .txt files at the R1b-L21-Project yahoo group file folder designated for this purpose.
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/files/Chromo_2_L21_S145_results

For more information, please see this post.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?791-R1b-L21-Phylogeny-(SNP-based-family-tree)&p=22021&viewfull=1#post22021

I'm looking for the Chromo 2 Genetic Signature of derived/positive SNPs only in the .txt file format.


I finally woke up and realized not everyone has Chromo 2 Genetic Signature strings of positive/derived (only) results.

Since I got my hands dirty on Chromo 2 raw results files I went ahead and created a spreadsheet aid. It is at the below URL plus the Yahoo groups file folder for Chromo 2 results.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/Raw_Compare_Chromo2.zip

I've got myself and Alex W in as an example.

You can copy the three columns (but not the headings) from Chromo 2 raw results CSV/spreadsheet files and paste special values/text into the spreadsheet. The three columns from Chromo 2 are SNPID, genotype and result. The Genetic Signature string is in cell E15008. You can copy/paste that in to a .txt wordpad/notepad type file.

You can copy a second haplotype's raw results into the spreadsheet, pasting it in to the haplotype "B" columns. I then use the bluish columns to compare SNP results and mark a "x" where there are differences.

hoxgi
12-06-2013, 03:11 PM
I have looked at the Chromo 2.0 results of the three Z253+ kits so far available: Le Gall f233265 (Z2534+ Z2185-), Barry f288343 (L1066+, and therefore also Z2534+ and Z2185+) and Buchanan f200481.

Barry and Buchanan are both positive for CTS927, s2906 and s9040; Le Gall is negative for these three SNPs.
However Barry and Le Gall are both positive for s868, while Buchanan is s868-.
So, unless these results include no-calls or back-mutations, all four SNPs shouuld be below Z253.

Now let's look at these SNPs in other Chromo 2.0 kits which are L21+ but Z253-.
We have results available from Halligan f143812 (L1335+ L1065+), McMillan f48641 (L1335+ L1065+), Williamson f196041 (DF21+), Stevens f59080 (DF41+), Walsh fN54638 (L513+ L705.2+) and Gardner f219571 (L513+ L706.2+).

s868 is negative in all the above six, so this looks like a potentially promising SNP under Z253; McClure Z253+ PF825.2+ is also s868- in FG results.

CTS927 is positive in the two L1335+ L1065+ kits and negative in the other four. Perhaps it is a recurent SNP, occurring under Z253 and also under or equivalent to L1335. Alternatively, Le Gall's negative result may be a no-call or back-mutation, in which case CTS927 could be positioned above both Z253 and L1335 and unite these two sons of DF13.

The same results and discussion apply to s2906: positive in Halligan, McMillan, Buchanan and Barry, but negative in all the others, including Le Gall.

s9040 is more difficult again; it is positive in Barry, Buchanan, Halligan and McMillan, negative in Le Gall, but also positive in Wiliamson and and one of the two L513+ persons, Gardner (but negative in Walsh, who also is L513+, and Stevens). I can't attempt to explain these results without suggesting that s9040 is recurrent.

I thought at first that there these SNPs may have shown new branchings within L21 and/or Z253, but it worries me to have to keep suggesting no-calls, recurrent SNPs, etc, to make sense of these results. Any ideas?

Greg H

Mikewww
12-06-2013, 07:05 PM
Most of the L21 Chromo 2 folks, maybe all, are getting notifications of updates to their SNP results.

BritainDNA in an email to Chromo 2 customers wrote,

"Please log in to your myDNA account to download your updated results – we have now revised the clustering of all Y SNPs, which will have resulted in some minor changes to your results. Whilst some markers have been removed (when we discovered that they are giving false positive or negative results), others have been added and a few have been corrected."

Please upload your raw results .xlsx/.xls (CSV - Common Separated Variable) file to this folder in the R1b-L21-Project yahoo group under "files".
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/files/Chromo_2_L21_S145_results

Please upload your fine in this format:
fkit#_surname_RAW.xlsx

I will tie/merge the results into the R1b-L21_Haplotypes spreadsheet so I need a kit # (or what I call a spreadsheet ID - SS ID). The SS ID is just an "f" prefixed to the FTDNA kit #.

I am also creating a Y DNA SNP pseudo project report, but you have to upload your data. This will allow you to do comparisons using spreadsheet column heading autofiltering to see what combinations of SNP results are out there, thereby helping discover the phylogenetic tree. Essentially this is just a visual hands-on way of doing some of what Chris Morley's tool does.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/Example_Chromo_2_Y_DNA_SNP_report.pdf

In the same folder listed above I also have a Chromo 2 raw results comparison tool that lets you quickly compare the raw results on any two individuals. Here is an excerpt from that. It'll count # positives, # negatives, # no calls, and # differences between the two and let you sort to bring the differences to the top or just autofilter/select on the differences.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/Example_Chromo_2_Raw_compare.pdf

I use this compare spreadsheet to create a Genetic Signature string of positive/derived SNPs that gets copied over into the pseudo Y DNA SNP project report. This is just a work-around because Chromo 2 doesn't support project types of sharing directly.

haleaton
12-06-2013, 08:34 PM
Most of the L21 Chromo 2 folks, maybe all, are getting notifications of updates to their SNP results.

BritainDNA in an email to Chromo 2 customers wrote,

"Please log in to your myDNA account to download your updated results – we have now revised the clustering of all Y SNPs, which will have resulted in some minor changes to your results. Whilst some markers have been removed (when we discovered that they are giving false positive or negative results), others have been added and a few have been corrected."



Looking at my (U152+ L2+ with 45 Private FGC SNPS, but otherwise strictly R-L2* at the moment) "unofficial" Chromo2 Raw data I got yesterday compared along with Bolgeris (U152+ L2+ Z367+ L20+ through other testing) who published his positive SNPs in another Chromo2 thread it was apparent that the now old other U152- R-L21 chromo data was also positive for SNPs that Bolgeris was positive for and I was negative. Over half of them.

S28/U152, S139/L2, S144/L20 failed to work or were omitted on the Chromo2 Illumina chip, though they added S28 & S139 to my raw data presumably from alternate sequencing.

I have not received anything about updating my unofficial Chromo2 data. Bolgeris should check.

I think Chromo2 will be similar to GENO 2.0 but instead BritainsDNA jumped on the problems immediately instead of ignoring it.

JRW
12-07-2013, 05:05 AM
Although I have not received my Chromo2 raw data, I have compared my "genetic signature" with those "genetic signatures" uploaded to the referenced Yahoo folder. I really don't know what to make of it. I am a true DF13** -- meaning that I have tested negative for all downstream SNPs to DF13 on the L21 phylogenetic tree. My Chromo2 classification is R1b-S145*. Yet, I share multiple sets of "positive" results on specific markers with testers who are classified in one of the L21 subclades. Those testers, in turn, may or may not share those positive results with others in the same subclade. Here is a listing of markers/SNPs (all of which are positive in my report) that illustrate my point:

CTS1414 - Positive: MacRae(L1335), Buchanan(z253), Gardner(L513), Dunbar(M222)
Negative: MacMillan (L1335), LeGall(z253), Walsh(L513), Barry(z253)

S10266 - Positive: Buchanan(z253), Gardner(L513), Dunbar(M222)
Negative: LeGall(z253), Walsh(L513), Barry(z253)

S8620, S8645, S8649, S8701, S8705, S8714, S8742, S8751 - Positive: Barry(z253), Dunbar(M222)
Negative: Buchanan(z253), LeGall(z253)

S9040 - Positive: Gardner(L513), Barry(z253)
Negative: Walsh(L513), LeGall(z253), Dunbar(M222)

Can anyone explain these results? Are SNP mutations much more frequent than conventional wisdom assumes? Is the Chromo2 chip error prone? Any insights would be very much appreciated.

haleaton
12-07-2013, 07:03 AM
Although I have not received my Chromo2 raw data, I have compared my "genetic signature" with those "genetic signatures" uploaded to the referenced Yahoo folder. I really don't know what to make of it. I am a true DF13** -- meaning that I have tested negative for all downstream SNPs to DF13 on the L21 phylogenetic tree. My Chromo2 classification is R1b-S145*. Yet, I share multiple sets of "positive" results on specific markers with testers who are classified in one of the L21 subclades. Those testers, in turn, may or may not share those positive results with others in the same subclade. Here is a listing of markers/SNPs (all of which are positive in my report) that illustrate my point:

CTS1414 - Positive: MacRae(L1335), Buchanan(z253), Gardner(L513), Dunbar(M222)
Negative: MacMillan (L1335), LeGall(z253), Walsh(L513), Barry(z253)

S10266 - Positive: Buchanan(z253), Gardner(L513), Dunbar(M222)
Negative: LeGall(z253), Walsh(L513), Barry(z253)

S8620, S8645, S8649, S8701, S8705, S8714, S8742, S8751 - Positive: Barry(z253), Dunbar(M222)
Negative: Buchanan(z253), LeGall(z253)

S9040 - Positive: Gardner(L513), Barry(z253)
Negative: Walsh(L513), LeGall(z253), Dunbar(M222)

Can anyone explain these results? Are SNP mutations much more frequent than conventional wisdom assumes? Is the Chromo2 chip error prone? Any insights would be very much appreciated.

With myself Eaton or Bolgeris are also positive for about half of these "S" SNPs yet we are are U152+ L2+ based on other testing, so certainly not R-L21.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1336-Will-you-be-ordering-the-BritainsDNA-Chromo2-Test&p=21377&viewfull=1#post21377

Bolgeris (U152+ L2+ L20+) - S10266+, S8620+, S8645+, S8649+, S8701+, S8705+, S8714+, S8742+, S8751+

Eaton(U152+ L2+) -S8620+, S8705+, S8714+, S8751+, S9040+

So BritainsDNA should come out with corrections and again my data was released as tentative and unofficial. If they had also released the definitions of the S SNPs I would have checked them against my Full Genomes results. My comparisons show that once specific problem SNPs are eliminated Chromo2 is accurate in general but unlike NGS full sequencing is can be wrong often due to ambiguous cases such as heterozygosity. "S" SNPs seem extra squirrelly for some unknown reason, so they should be defined.

JRW
12-07-2013, 02:57 PM
Thanks for the information. I received my Chromo2 results on November 29th and have not heard from BritainsDNA regarding an update to my results. Regardless, it appears that the cleansing of problematic SNPs and interpretation of results will be a challenge in these large-scope Y chromosome tests.

hoxgi
12-07-2013, 11:48 PM
The following have posted Chromo 2 updated raw data files in the L21 Yahoo group: McRae-Halligan L1335+, McMillan L1335+, Williamson DF21+, Stevens DF41+, Dunbar DF49+, Walsh L513+, Gardner L513+, Buchanan Z253+ and Barry Z253+. I'm just looking at the sons of DF13 at the moment, not terminal SNPs.

Some of the initial s9040+ results have been changed to negative in the updated files, but I still can't make sense of this SNP's results.

s2906 is only positive in the two Z253+ people and the two L1335+ people, and is negative in all the others.

CTS927 is positive in the two Z253+ people, the two L1335+ people and the one DF49+ person, and is negative in the others.

So these SNPs may link some of the clades immediately below DF13.

However Joss Le Gall's initial results were inconsistent with the above, as he is Z253+ and was negative for the above two SNPs; Joss, I would be very interested to see your updated results when they are available.

Finally, s868 appears to be downstream of Z253 and somewhere in the 253>2534>2185 branch at this early stage.

Greg H

Celtarion
12-08-2013, 12:51 AM
The following have posted Chromo 2 updated raw data files in the L21 Yahoo group: McRae-Halligan L1335+, McMillan L1335+, Williamson DF21+, Stevens DF41+, Dunbar DF49+, Walsh L513+, Gardner L513+, Buchanan Z253+ and Barry Z253+. I'm just looking at the sons of DF13 at the moment, not terminal SNPs.

Some of the initial s9040+ results have been changed to negative in the updated files, but I still can't make sense of this SNP's results.

s2906 is only positive in the two Z253+ people and the two L1335+ people, and is negative in all the others.

CTS927 is positive in the two Z253+ people, the two L1335+ people and the one DF49+ person, and is negative in the others.

So these SNPs may link some of the clades immediately below DF13.

However Joss Le Gall's initial results were inconsistent with the above, as he is Z253+ and was negative for the above two SNPs; Joss, I would be very interested to see your updated results when they are available.

Finally, s868 appears to be downstream of Z253 and somewhere in the 253>2534>2185 branch at this early stage.

Greg H

Hi Greg,

I haven't received any email from BritainsDNA relating to any update of the Genetic Signature and the RAW datas don't appear on my profile yet. Will keep you posted when released.

Joss.

hoxgi
12-08-2013, 08:30 AM
I haven't received any email from BritainsDNA relating to any update of the Genetic Signature and the RAW datas don't appear on my profile yet. Will keep you posted when released.

Joss.

Thanks Joss. I notice that none of the updated Chromo 2 files have PF825 correct yet. My reading of the email you received is that all R1b results should read PF825(+), indicating the derived form of this SNP (referred to by FTDNA as PF825.1), except for those who have the back-mutation to the ancestral SNP under Z253; their result should read PF825! in Chromo 2, which is analogous to PF825.2 in FTDNA.

Perhaps this explains why we don't seem to have any PF825 results in Full Genomes.

Greg H

hoxgi
12-09-2013, 11:50 AM
Another question, does it mean that Chromo2 don't test Z2534?

Joss

I enquired about downstream SNPs on the Britain's DNA blog and have now received the following reply:

Hi Greg,
Thanks for your message. We test for both Z2534 and Z2185 on Chromo2 – these have the alternative names S868 and S893 respectively.
I hope this helps, but if you have any further queries please don’t hesitate to get in touch.
Very best
Helen

Joss Le Gall is s868+ s893- and was already known to be Z2534+ Z2185- from FTDNA testing, so his two sets of results are consistent.
Mike Barry is L1066+ in his Chromo 2.0 results and is s868+ s893+ as expected.
John Buchanan is s868- s893- in his Chromo 2.0 results and so belongs to the Z2534- segment of Z253.

I'll ask Britain's DNA for other duplicate names; they have an on-line list of alternate names for CTS SNPs only, as far as I am aware.

Greg H

hoxgi
12-10-2013, 12:28 PM
Here are the duplicate names for SNPs downstream from Z253:
Z253 = S218
Z2534 = S868
Z2182 = S882 = CTS2646
Z2184 = S883
Z2185 = S893
DF73 = S923
L226 = S168
L1066 = CTS1202

All these are included in Chromo 2.0, along with SNPs below Z253 which do not have duplicate names: Z2183, Z2186, L643, L1308, L554, F4036 and, of course, the troublesome PF825.

Greg H

Celtarion
12-11-2013, 01:13 PM
Just got an email from BritainsDNA stating that "All my Ancestry" results are now available to view.

1054

David Wilson
12-16-2013, 10:25 PM
Just had a preliminary report from IrelandsDNA that the Chromo2 test put me in S7073, the first-encountered downstream SNP below M222. I seem to be negative for S568 and S658, the next two downstream SNPs. (S658 is a milestone on the road to DF85 and DF97, the two best known sub-haplogroups below M222.) Fuller data will be available in a few days, and I will pass it along when it is in hand.

My 111-marker haplotype is very close to the modal haplotype for all M222.

David Wilson / FTDNA 8999

Celtarion
12-17-2013, 02:16 AM
L21 - Haplogroup Distribution Map

From BritainsDNA
We are proud to be the first company to present a breakdown of your haplogroup distribution at a regional level across Britain and Ireland. As with the World Distribution map, it represents the locations of lineages 100 years ago or more, in the era before mass transport. Some maps show a steady decline from west to east whereas others show a more complicated pattern.

What does this map mean to you? Perhaps your haplogroup is common in an area you had not considered in your genealogical research or maybe your ancestral lineage has not moved far over a long line of generations.


1067


World Distribution of the R1b-S145 Haplogroup

Since the markers which define your haplogroup first arose, they have been spread far and wide by the migrations of people over many millennia. The frequency estimated for each population relates to the whereabouts of your haplogroup about 1500, in the era before inter-continental travel.

When a country is greyed out it means that we do not at present have data to plot, it does not mean that your haplogroup is not found there. A graduated colour scale is provided to highlight where your group is common and rare. When a country is coloured the lightest colour, it means that reasonable numbers have been tested but that your haplogroup has not been found there.

A list of the populations tested is provided with their frequencies shown descending from highest to lowest. In some cases the figures relate to a particular people within that country.

The results for the world distribution have been brought to you from a combination of the published literature, our own data and databases available from other research projects.


1068


R1b Phylogenetic tree
If this is not clearly readable, feel free to let me know.


1069

hoxgi
12-17-2013, 11:47 AM
There may be a problem with Z252 (aka S471) results in Chromo 2.0. Z252 has generally been thought to be equivalent to Z253 so far. ISOGG and FG list the ancestral form as A and the derived form as T. In the reference kits from 1000 Genomes and the Personal Genomes Projects used by FG, all the Z253+ people are also Z252+ and all the L21+ and DF13+ kits which are Z253-are also Z252-.

However, in the Chromo 2.0 results, everyone who is L21+ appears to be Z252-, even those who are Z253+. In addition, Chromo 2.0 reports a negative result for this SNP if the base is T, which is inconsistent with ISOGG and FG.

Hopefully this just represents a teething problem for Britain's DNA, which can be rectified.

Greg H

RGM
12-17-2013, 11:57 AM
R1b Phylogenetic tree

I can't quite make out the SNP tree under M222. I assume it's the same as has already been presented here?

Dubhthach
12-17-2013, 12:57 PM
Their map about "S145" distribution seems bit strange, 23% in Ulster? It sounds to me like it's a "S145*" map, eg. they aren't including major subclades of L21 in that.

The 38% figure for Ireland would seem to back that up. It be curious to see their maps for stuff like M222 and L159.2

-Paul
(DF41+)

Dubhthach
12-17-2013, 03:32 PM
I can't quite make out the SNP tree under M222. I assume it's the same as has already been presented here?

Iain Kennedy posted the following on the M222 mailing list today:

http://www.kennedydna.com/M222_2013Dec16.jpg



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Iain Kennedy <ikennedy_msdn2@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:44 PM
Subject: [R-M222] M222 revised tree
To: "dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com" <dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com>


List,

I have received a revised M222 tree from Dr. Jim Wilson. From what I can make out,

S661 and S658 are now split with the former a son of the latter
S673 is now a child of S675
S7050 is now a new child under S588

a few lower level ones have been clarified

The main problem area for my tree is the S673/S675 bit. To avoid throwing everyone out as unplaced I have for now assumed everyone DF85+ is also S673+.

S668/DF97 relationship is still a bit murky so I've not touched that.

I have updated

http://www.kennedydna.com/M222.pdf

and also uploaded the raw tree structure as

http://www.kennedydna.com/M222_2013Dec16.jpg

Iain

Mikewww
12-17-2013, 06:11 PM
BISDNA's Jim Wilson has okay'd that I can upload his draft sub of L21/S145 trees. I want to caution that they are draft only, but his versions of M222, S1136/CTS4466 and L1135/S530 are uploaded in the Chromo file folder of the R1b-L21-project yahoo group.

I hope he'll complete a few more "sub of" trees soon. There seems to be a lot of L21 pertinent SNPs packed into their Chromo 2 tests. It is a not really a novel SNP discovery test but they appear to have done a good job of surveying the academic genome studies and National Genographic results to include Isles oriented stuff into their package. That makes sense since they are Isles specialists.

I do have a plea for every L21/S145 Chromo 2 tester to upload their raw results .xlsx common separated variable files to that Chromo 2 folder with their FTDNA kit #s. I've now got Wilson's tree updates and the S series incorporated into the R1b-L21_Haplotypes and R1b-L21_SNPs spreadsheets. I just need the data and I can start pushing buttons and we can see S series (and FGC series) defined haplogroups assigned along side the STR signature variety assignments.

P.S. If you have trouble with yahoo groups just send me the file and I'll upload it and incorporate it.

Mikewww
12-17-2013, 06:26 PM
BISDNA's Jim Wilson ... his versions of M222 ...are uploaded in the Chromo file folder of the R1b-L21-project yahoo group.
I didn't upload it because it is just one update but Wilson has an insertion upstream of M222 too.

This is what ISOGG shows today under R1b-L21>DF13 for DF49 to M222:

R1b1a2a1a2c1a DF49/S474
R1b1a2a1a2c1a1 DF23/S193
R1b1a2a1a2c1a1a Z2961
R1b1a2a1a2c1a1a1 M222/Page84/USP9Y+3636

Wilson would insert S476. It is NOT phylogenetically equivalent to DF49 or DF23.

R1b1a2a1a2c1a DF49/S474
S476
R1b1a2a1a2c1a1 DF23/S193
R1b1a2a1a2c1a1a Z2961
R1b1a2a1a2c1a1a1 M222/Page84/USP9Y+3636

hoxgi
12-30-2013, 10:03 AM
I have been looking for new SNPs under Z253 in the Chromo 2 results in the L21 Yahoo group. Three Z253+ persons have made their results available: Le Gall Z253+ Z2534*, Barry Z253+ L1066+ and Buchanan Z253*. There are also results from 14 others who are L21+, comprising DF13* (2), L1335+ L1065+ (4), L513+ (3), DF49+ (2), DF41+ (1), DF21+ (1) and Z255+ (1). Most but not all of these have provided their raw data. Le Gall was awaiting an updated set of results when he last posted.

Barry has four SNPs which are not present in any of the other sets of results, including the other two Z253+ persons. These are CTS11831, CTS11843, CTS9881 and Z2300. The first three were originally found in the 1000 Genomes Project, which included several Z253+ persons, and so may be significant SNPs somewhere in the Z2534>Z2185>L1066 branch of Z253, as opposed to private SNPs. Barry is also positive for all of the other unpositioned SNPs known to be in this branch: Z2182, Z2183, Z2184 and Z2186.

Z2300 is listed by ISOGG as being downstream of J-L147.1, so Barry's Z2300+ result is presumably Z2300.2, and again may be private or help to divide Z2534>Z2185>L1066 into subgroups. However, Z2300 does not appear to have been included in the most recent Chromo 2 results posted in the L21+ Yahoo group, those of Preston, and he appears to be missing several other SNPs which have so far given inconsistent results across the sons of L21, so perhaps Z2300 may not be a reliable SNP.

Buchanan is Z2534- and so would only have a shared new SNP with Barry if there was an SNP between Z253 and Z2534 which is tested in Chromo 2; I could not identify any such SNPs. He has five SNPs which he shares with only Le Gall (Z2534+) and Noe (L513+); these are S8556, S8563, S8565, S8567 and S8569. Presumably these are unreliable for some reason (unstable or recurrent), although I don't understand why all 5 always occur with the same results (all positive or all negative) in every one of the above 17 sets of results; perhaps they are linked in some way.

It is surprising that no new SNPs below Z253 were identified in Buchanan, as there must be such SNPs given the number of Z253* people already identified, including a couple of large varieties such as the various 253-1716 ones. Hopefully the Full Genomes and Big Y results will yield more SNPs.

I also attempted to check Barry's new SNPs against McClure's FG results; McClure is Z253+ Z2534- PF825+. McClure's gtype file indicates that he is negative for the three CTS SNPs, which is consistent with their being below Z2534. I think he's probably negative for Z2300 as well, as he has the ancestral "T" for this SNP, although his result is given as x (rather than + or -) in the gtype file, he has a -2 (rather than a 1 or 0) for this result, and "reference" is replaced by "unknown".

Unfortunately I cannot locate Barry's three CTS SNPs in the Z253+ 1000 Genomes references used by Full Genomes. Robert Casey, if you read this, would you mind checking your own FG results for Barry's SNPs, just in case any of them are above Z2185 and L226 (but below Z2534)?

Greg H

Celtarion
12-30-2013, 10:23 AM
Hi Greg,

I sent an email to BDNA few days ago asking them to provide the Raw data, awaiting their answer.

Also, my mtDNA is still not available, I have the feeling that they are struggling with work or something else as most of the people have their results delayed for some unknown reason.

Joss.

MikeABarry
01-02-2014, 11:47 PM
I'm just checking in to say hello to all. I'd be interested if anyone else who is L1066+ would let me know through this web site, I seem to be the only Chromo2 result that's L1066 and in the public domain so far. I'd just like to thank those with more experience and knowledge for their efforts and I look forward to what this year might bring us in new knowledge. MB

Celtarion
01-03-2014, 01:35 PM
Hello all,

I just published a review of my BritainsDNA results, it is currently in french language, however, there is a translator included if need.

http://legall-bzh.blogspot.ie/2014/01/la-genetique-le-cas-britainsdna.html

palamede
01-03-2014, 08:36 PM
Hello all,

I just published a review of my BritainsDNA results, it is currently in french language, however, there is a translator included if need.

http://legall-bzh.blogspot.ie/2014/01/la-genetique-le-cas-britainsdna.html

For their global results, Britishsdna seems to give
R1b 69,8% with

Total S145/L21=38,3% S145/L21* Predani 23,5% M222 Ancient Irish 7,0% S539/L1335 Pictish 4,9% S169.2/L159.2 (below Z255) Hibernia 1,0% S190/CTS2187 (below DF21) Maeatae (south of the Caledonii, north of the Antonine Wall) 1,1% L744/S388 (below DF41) Royal Stewart 0,4% L226/S168 (below Z253) Dalcassian 0,1%

Total S116/P312*=10,3% S116/P312** Beaker folk 8,8% SRY2627 Iberian 1,0% L165/S68 Hebridian Viking 0,5%

Others R1b =21,2% S21/U106 Germani 14,8% S28/U152 Alpine 4,3% M269* Anatolian 1,8% L238/S182 Norse 0,3%

Total R1b = 38,3+10,3+21,2=69,8%

Remarks :
1) labels are the responsability of Britainsdna http://www.isogg.org/wiki/BritainsDNA_haplogroup_nicknames
2) M269* includes M269xL23 , L23xL51, L51xL11 and L11x(P312,U106).


I 18,1% with

Total I1-M253=9,4% M253* Teutonic 6,9% S142/L22 Scandinavian 2,5%

Total I2a2a-M223=4,7% I2a2a-M223* Saxon 3,3% S125/L126 Caledonian 1,0% M284 Ancient British 0,5%

Others=3,9% I2a1a-M26 Nuraghic 0,4% S185/L161.1 (below M423) Deep Hunter 0,9% S392/L621 (below M423) Illyrian 0,3% I2a2b-S155/L39 Rhineland 0,8% I2a1c-L233/S183 Chauci 0,6% ?-S197 AngloSaxon 0,5% I2c-S333/L597 Thracian 0,4%

Total I=9,4+4,7+3,9=18,0%


R1a=4,6% with
Z284-S443/Z289 Norse Viking 2,7% Z282/S198* Kurgan 0,9% L664/S298 Yamna 0,6% Z93/S202 Indo-Iranian 0,3% M17-M512* Pit Grave Culture
0,1%

E= 2,5% with
Total E1b1b-M35=2,2% V13 Balkans 1,2% M123 Saracen 0,4% M81 Berber 0,3% M35* Elmenteitan 0,1% V22 Ancient Egyptian 0,1% M78 Luxor 0,1%
Others=0,3% E1a-M33 Mali 0,1% E1b1a1-P1 Niger-Congo 0,2%

J=2,3% with J2-M172 Herdsman Farmer 1,7% J1-M167 Arabian 0,6%

Others=2,7% with G-S314 Caucasian 1,6% Q-M342 Altaï 0,2% N-M46 Uralic 0,2% T-M184 Babylon 0,2% A-M13 Nilotic 0,1% C-M216 Ancient Asia 0,1% O-P186 Sunda 0,1%.

Celtarion
01-07-2014, 05:46 PM
Just got an email stating that my RAW data is available for downloading. I have uploaded the file in the yahoo groups.

I'm now attending FTDNA webinar about X Chromosome Matches in Family Finder.

Cheers,

Joss.

Mikewww
01-09-2014, 01:17 PM
Just got an email stating that my RAW data is available for downloading. I have uploaded the file in the yahoo groups....
Cheers,

Joss.

Thanks, Joss. We had several folks add their Chromo 2 results to the R1b-L21-Project yahoo group files folder.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/files/Chromo_2_L21_S145_results/

For anyone who is interested, in that file folder full of individuals' results, there are the following:

Chromo2_Raw_Compare_Tool.xlsm - a spreadsheet that you can copy any two raw results files into and then compare positives, negatives, no calls. It has a sort built in (if you turn on macros) that sorts the differences to the top.

These three are Dr. Jim F. Wilson's draft trees for parts of L21:

R1b-M222_Tree_draft.pptx
R1b-S1136_CTS4466_Tree_draft.pptx
R1b-S1136_CTS4466_Tree_draft.pptx

Muireagain
01-09-2014, 07:31 PM
Buchanan is Z2534- and so would only have a shared new SNP with Barry if there was an SNP between Z253 and Z2534 which is tested in Chromo 2; I could not identify any such SNPs. He has five SNPs which he shares with only Le Gall (Z2534+) and Noe (L513+); these are S8556, S8563, S8565, S8567 and S8569. Presumably these are unreliable for some reason (unstable or recurrent), although I don't understand why all 5 always occur with the same results (all positive or all negative) in every one of the above 17 sets of results; perhaps they are linked in some way.
Greg H


I and another member of M222 project have the five same SNPs S8556, S8563, S8565, S8567 and S8569. We also share the more reliable S660 under M222.

Is there any value in this mutation?

hoxgi
01-09-2014, 11:57 PM
I suspect that these SNPs are not reliable. I am not familiar with S660, but in Mike's spreadsheet of SNP results there are 22 persons who are S660+, 13 of whom are M222+.

S8556, S8563, S8565, S8567 and SS8569 are all positive in six people spread across various clades, including Z253, M222, DF41 and L513. There is at least one other member of each of these clades who is negative for all these SNPs. I can't explain why all five SNPs always seem to occur in the same state (ancestral or derived) in every individual tested, but I very much doubt that they will be useful phylogenetically.

Joss Le Gall's results are negative for all the SNPs already known to be downstream mfrom Z2534 (Z2185, Z2184, Z2183, L1066/CTS1202, Z2182 and Z2186). I also can't see any reliable new SNPs for which he and Barry (Z253>Z2534>Z2185>L1066) are both positive and Buchanan (Z253*) is negative.

However, Barry is positive for three SNPs for which Le Gall and Buchanan are negative. These are CTS11831, CTS11843 and CTS9881 and were all included in Geno 2 (as well as Chromo 2). All three are positive in the Geno 2 results of another L1066+ person, McElroy f157233. McElRoy and Barry are both members of Irish Type 4 in Mike's spreadsheet, and have a GD=16 to each other.

Twelve other L1066+ persons in the Z253 Project have Geno 2 results; all are negative for CTS11831, CTS11843 and CTS9881. However, only one of these twelve is from Irish Type 4, O'Shea f237481, and he is an outlier on GDs (GD=26 to Barry).

So it is likely that these three SNPs cover some, perhaps most, of Irish Type 4 and may separate it out from the rest of L1066. They may also enable Irish Type 4 to be divided into subclades.

Greg H

marosjor
01-10-2014, 08:38 AM
I suspect that these SNPs are not reliable. I am not familiar with S660, but in Mike's spreadsheet of SNP results there are 22 persons who are S660+, 13 of whom are M222+.

S8556, S8563, S8565, S8567 and SS8569 are all positive in six people spread across various clades, including Z253, M222, DF41 and L513. There is at least one other member of each of these clades who is negative for all these SNPs. I can't explain why all five SNPs always seem to occur in the same state (ancestral or derived) in every individual tested, but I very much doubt that they will be useful phylogenetically.

Joss Le Gall's results are negative for all the SNPs already known to be downstream mfrom Z2534 (Z2185, Z2184, Z2183, L1066/CTS1202, Z2182 and Z2186). I also can't see any reliable new SNPs for which he and Barry (Z253>Z2534>Z2185>L1066) are both positive and Buchanan (Z253*) is negative.

However, Barry is positive for three SNPs for which Le Gall and Buchanan are negative. These are CTS11831, CTS11843 and CTS9881 and were all included in Geno 2 (as well as Chromo 2). All three are positive in the Geno 2 results of another L1066+ person, McElroy f157233. McElRoy and Barry are both members of Irish Type 4 in Mike's spreadsheet, and have a GD=16 to each other.

Twelve other L1066+ persons in the Z253 Project have Geno 2 results; all are negative for CTS11831, CTS11843 and CTS9881. However, only one of these twelve is from Irish Type 4, O'Shea f237481, and he is an outlier on GDs (GD=26 to Barry).

So it is likely that these three SNPs cover some, perhaps most, of Irish Type 4 and may separate it out from the rest of L1066. They may also enable Irish Type 4 to be divided into subclades.

Greg H

Thanks, Greg for this useful information. Just one question, would you consider O'Shea f237481 as Irish Type 4? This O'Shea does not have the typical off modal markers associated with Irish Type 4. Geno 2.0 was used for f237481 as it was proving very difficult to identify which SNP downstream of DF13, would prove positive.

Regards,
Margaret

hoxgi
01-10-2014, 10:15 AM
Just one question, would you consider O'Shea f237481 as Irish Type 4? This O'Shea does not have the typical off modal markers associated with Irish Type 4. Margaret

Hi Margaret. I was using the classification in Mike's spreadsheet, but on closer examination I think O'Shea f237481 and O'Shea f185955 (who are clearly closely related) as pretty dubious for Irish Type 4. They lack the three slowest off-modals and have a couple of slow off-modals of their own which are not part of the Irish Type 4 signature.

I can see why Mike speculatively called them T4, as they do share at least six medium and fast off-modals with T4. However it might be that these three new SNPs define the limits of Irish Type 4 more reliably than the STRs.

Greg H

Dubhthach
01-10-2014, 11:40 AM
I suspect that these SNPs are not reliable. I am not familiar with S660, but in Mike's spreadsheet of SNP results there are 22 persons who are S660+, 13 of whom are M222+.

Greg,

S660 is one of the new dividing SNP's under M222. It's part of Chromo2 product from ScotlandsDNA/IrelandsDNA. See M222 tree from Iain Kennedy here:

http://www.kennedydna.com/M222_2013Dec16.jpg

Alot of the Irish M222 is potentially S660+.

-Paul
(DF41+)

MacUalraig
01-10-2014, 01:44 PM
I and another member of M222 project have the five same SNPs S8556, S8563, S8565, S8567 and S8569. We also share the more reliable S660 under M222.

Is there any value in this mutation?

For anyone else interested, the five S85** SNPs named above have just been axed by Dr. Wilson due to lack of phylogenetic value.

RGM
01-10-2014, 03:14 PM
For anyone else interested, the five S85** SNPs named above have just been axed by Dr. Wilson due to lack of phylogenetic value.

Were any others also dismissed?

MacUalraig
01-10-2014, 05:10 PM
Were any others also dismissed?
There will be a more general revision shortly - maybe a couple of weeks time. I will post on the M222 forum (and on here since it will effect other branches) when there is more news. Updated files should be available for download.

Mikewww
01-10-2014, 09:06 PM
Hi Margaret. I was using the classification in Mike's spreadsheet, but on closer examination I think O'Shea f237481 and O'Shea f185955 (who are clearly closely related) as pretty dubious for Irish Type 4. They lack the three slowest off-modals and have a couple of slow off-modals of their own which are not part of the Irish Type 4 signature.

I can see why Mike speculatively called them T4, as they do share at least six medium and fast off-modals with T4. However it might be that these three new SNPs define the limits of Irish Type 4 more reliably than the STRs.

Greg H
I switched them to 1066- uas (unassigned) in the spreadsheet. They are quite a GD off besides missing a couple of signature markers..
so even though there are L1066+ T4 O'Shea folks there are other O'Shea folks that are L1066+ but not T4.

hoxgi
01-10-2014, 10:00 PM
S660 is one of the new dividing SNP's under M222.

Paul, thank you for correcting my inaccuracy. I have rechecked Mike's spreadsheet of SNPs and cannot see any inconsistencies with S660; all the S660+ results are also either M222+ or S661+, so it does appear to be compleely reliable. My apologies for any confusion I may have caused with my earlier post.

Greg H

hoxgi
01-10-2014, 10:14 PM
Were any others also dismissed?

I haven't attempted a comprehensive listing but have picked up the following SNPs as no longer included in the more recent Chromo 2 results:
CTS1414
CTS927
PF1557
S10266
S26911
S2906
S3826
S8587
S8620
S8705
S8751
S9040
Z2300

In each case the results were inconsistent across the various DF13 clades and the DF13* paragroup.
There goes my earlier idea of a superclade below DF13!

Greg H

MacUalraig
01-10-2014, 10:32 PM
I haven't attempted a comprehensive listing but have picked up the following SNPs as no longer included in the more recent Chromo 2 results:
CTS1414
CTS927
PF1557
S10266
S26911
S2906
S3826
S8587
S8620
S8705
S8751
S9040
Z2300

In each case the results were inconsistent across the various DF13 clades and the DF13* paragroup.
There goes my earlier idea of a superclade below DF13!

Greg H

That is a subset of the 19 that I make dropped in mid-December when the call count dropped from 14285 to 14266.
SNPID
CTS10011
CTS11226
CTS1414
CTS1476
CTS927
PF6685
S10266
S26911
S2906
S3826
S8587
S8620
S8626
S8634
S8648
S8705
S8751
S9040
Z2300

Dubhthach
01-11-2014, 12:08 AM
Morten Stryhn on L21 list posted the following:


From: <mortenstryhn@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 11:44 PM
Subject: [R1b-L21-Project] CTS4466, DF41, DF49 and L1335 have a common ancestor.
To: R1b-L21-Project@yahoogroups.com



Chromo2 tests in files section compared:



CTS4466, DF41, DF49 and L1335 share following SNPs: S19739, S5025, S9189 and Z2069.



DF13, DF21, L513 and Z253 do not have above SNPs.





Kind regards,



Morten Stryhn, f210257, CTS3974+/CTS4466+CTS5714+/CTS8358+/CTS6058+/S27519+/L1312-/L270-/S293-


If those are stable SNP's that points to quite a major dividing line under DF13.

-Paul
(DF41+)

rms2
01-11-2014, 12:24 AM
Morten Stryhn on L21 list posted the following:


If those are stable SNP's that points to quite a major dividing line under DF13.

-Paul
(DF41+)

Yes, I have all those, and John Creer has them, but Angus Mac Millan does not show any of those, and he is DF41+.

Could he have gotten no-calls at all four of them? That doesn't seem likely, but I guess it's possible.

rms2
01-11-2014, 12:34 AM
Now here's a coincidence for you! I had written Dr. Jim Wilson awhile back and asked him about the following SNPs in my Chromo2 results:

S1415
S1416
S1417
S19739
S27730

S5025
S524 (DF41)
S836 (CTS2501)
S839
S8587
S9189
Z2032
Z2069

I put the four from Morten Stryhn's Yahoo email in bold.

I got an email from Dr. Wilson this evening telling me that ". . . apart from S524, S836, S839, none of these are showing phylogenetically consistent patterns".

Dr. Wilson says they have zeroed those out and they will not appear in future Chromo2 releases.

It's too bad, really. It would be cool if they really could establish a connection between DF41, DF49, L1335 and CTS4466.

castillianscot
01-12-2014, 12:04 AM
Now here's a coincidence for you! I had written Dr. Jim Wilson awhile back and asked him about the following SNPs in my Chromo2 results:

S1415
S1416
S1417
S19739
S27730

S5025
S524 (DF41)
S836 (CTS2501)
S839
S8587
S9189
Z2032
Z2069

I put the four from Morten Stryhn's Yahoo email in bold.

I got an email from Dr. Wilson this evening telling me that ". . . apart from S524, S836, S839, none of these are showing phylogenetically consistent patterns".

Dr. Wilson says they have zeroed those out and they will not appear in future Chromo2 releases.

It's too bad, really. It would be cool if they really could establish a connection between DF41, DF49, L1335 and CTS4466.

~~~~~~
I have just completed a comparison of my Chromo2 results (DF19+) against 11 U106, 29 L21, 2 DF27, and another DF19 (Kent who is DF88-), and the only possible new DF19+ DF88+ SNPs are (these were the only SNPs checked against the L21 files for uniqueness), do you know of any issues for these Chromo2 SNPs????:
S23780 ~ CC-negative <> AA-positive
S4267 ~ AA-negative <> AG-positive (why isn't this GG-positive)????
S4274 ~ GG-negative <> AA-positive
S7445 ~ CC-negative <> AA-positive

Here is the data from the comparisons:

Comparing U106 Chromo2 Ref3.csv and f93184_Ranney_Raw_YDNA_Test_Results.csv
------------------------------------------------
Differences with no no-calls (Negatives Removed)

"Inconsistent1" match rms2 posting (Dr. James Wilson's phylogenically inconsistent):
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1403-L21-Chromo2-tracking-and-results/page12

"Inconsistent2" from MacUalraig lists SNPs no longer included in more recent Chromo2 results:
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1403-L21-Chromo2-tracking-and-results/page11

"In Mikol Ryon DF27" match his positives to mine, where not in inconsistent list
Also checked "Corner DF27" file against my results, no additional issues found, beyond those above

"In U106 Samples" Chr2MultiTest7.csv P312 Yahoo Groups Chromo2 File (11 U106, 3 P312)

Also listed are my known FTDNA results that match Chromo2:
P312+ DF19+ DF88+ L1199+ L1200+

where:
S116 = P312+
S232 = DF19+
S4298 = DF88+ (Kent, who is S232, did not show S4298 as positive, and therefore is presumed DF88-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SNP: CTS1476 AA-negative <> AG-positive **** Inconsistent2 ****

SNP: L1199 GG-negative <> AA-positive ~~~~ L1199+, Found in my WTY first ~~~~
SNP: L1200 AA-negative <> GG-positive ~~~~ L1200+, Found in my WTY first ~~~~

SNP: PF5980 AA-positive <> AG-positive **** In Mikol Ryon DF27 ****
SNP: PF6055 AA-positive <> AC-positive **** In Mikol Ryon DF27 ****

SNP: S116 CC-negative <> AC-positive ~~~~ P312+, Matches FTDNA ~~~~

SNP: S19739 CC-negative <> CC-positive **** Inconsistent1 ****

SNP: S232 CC-negative <> AA-positive ~~~~ DF19+, Matches FTDNA ~~~~

SNP: S23780 CC-negative <> AA-positive ++++ Possible New DF19+/DF88+ SNP ++++

SNP: S26911 AA-negative <> AG-positive **** Inconsistent2 ****
SNP: S27730 AA-negative <> AA-positive **** Inconsistent1 ****

SNP: S4267 AA-negative <> AG-positive ++++ Possible New DF19+/DF88+ SNP ++++
SNP: S4274 GG-negative <> AA-positive ++++ Possible New DF19+/DF88+ SNP ++++

SNP: S4298 GG-negative <> AA-positive ~~~~ DF88+, Matches FTDNA ~~~~

SNP: S4888 GG-(positive) <> AG-positive **** In Mikol Ryon DF27 ****
SNP: S5025 GG-negative <> GG-positive **** In Mikol Ryon DF27 ****
SNP: S6157 GG-negative <> AG-positive **** In U106 Samples ****
SNP: S6165 AA-negative <> AG-positive **** In U106 Samples ****

SNP: S7445 CC-negative <> AA-positive ++++ Possible New DF19+/DF88+ SNP ++++

SNP: S8587 GG-negative <> AG-positive **** Inconsistent1/2 ****
SNP: S8933 AA-negative <> AG-positive **** In U106 Samples ****
SNP: S9189 GG-negative <> GG-positive **** Inconsistent1 ****
SNP: Z2032 CC-negative <> AC-positive **** Inconsistent1 ****
SNP: Z2069 AA-negative <> AA-positive **** Inconsistent1 ****

I am sorry about posting this in the L21 area, but you had the most Chromo2 files and info to check against. Thanks again.

George

rms2
01-12-2014, 03:33 AM
No problem, George. Glad to be of service.

I am negative for all of those, and I have not heard of any problems with them, but you should check with Dr. Wilson or Angelika at BDNA to be sure.

Maybe Mike has heard something, though, and will see your post and comment, as well.

DavidCar
01-14-2014, 08:23 PM
I've compared the Chromo 2.0 SNPs of the first two Z253+ kits to post their results - Le Gall f233265 and Buchanan f200481. Le Gall has previously tested Z253+ Z2534+ with FTDNA.

Le Gall has three SNPs which Buchanan does not: CTS11226, PF4432 and s868.
Buchanan has six SNPs which Le Gall does not: CTS1414, CTS927, s2906, s10266, s13801 and s9040.

I have checked McClure's FG results and he is negative for all nine of these SNPs. He is Z253+ as well.

However the interpretation is difficult because all three of these kits have tested PF825+; McClure with Geno 2.0 and the two others with Chromo 2.0. Le Gall cannot be PF825.2+ because he is Z2534+ and these are parallel SNPs immediately below Z253.

Also, Rich Stevens (DF41+) has posted elsewhere that he is PF825+ in his Chromo 2.0 results.

Finally, McClure's FG results do not include PF825 at all as far as I can see.

Any thoughts ?

Greg H

I'm just surfing into the middle of this discussion, so I don't know if anything new has turned up on PF4432, but I've got it in two U106 cases, but not in about 16 other U1106 and P312 cases.

DavidCar
01-17-2014, 08:06 AM
Could PF4432 be at the top of Z253 and L513? Are there any other Chromo2 raw files in these groups besides Le Gall and Noe?

hoxgi
01-17-2014, 11:25 AM
Could PF4432 be at the top of Z253 and L513? Are there any other Chromo2 raw files in these groups besides Le Gall and Noe?

Sorry to disappoint you. PF4432 is negative in Barry Z253+, Buchanan Z253+, Walsh L513+ and Gardner L513+
PF4432 is also negative in Wigand DF13* and Brunet DF13*, but positive in Willis DF13*, as well as Le Gall Z253+ and Noe L513+.

So it looks like another unreliable SNP at this stage.

Greg H

Wolds Wanderer
01-17-2014, 01:03 PM
This is an exercise that I’ve been working through for my own interest, over the last couple of weeks, comparing my Chromo2 results (f289737 Willis) with the other raw results posted in the R1b-L21-Project Yahoo files.

In early December, Rich Stevens and I compared our Chromo2 results and produced a reference sequence of SNPs for everything upstream of, and including, DF13. Rich is DF41+ and CTS2501+ and I am DF13*. Deducting this reference sequence from my complete set of positive results produces a list of SNPs which, theoretically, should be downstream of DF13, and that I show positive for. I then compared this residual list with the other raw result files to see where there might be any matches.

The results are a first draft and I need to go back and double check, but I think they are accurate enough to give a good indication of match occurrence.

The three SNPs preceded by an asterisk now appear to have been dropped by BritainsDNA. PF5191 so far appears to be specific to me and the Chromo2 result confirms my earlier Geno 2.0 result. I’ve now “Wish(ed) a SNP” at YSEQ and Astrid Krahn has already designed primers ready for testing. S7958 is equivalent to FGC5495, part of MJost’s Full Genomes results.

There are matches with various haplotypes and L21 subclades. I think this tells us that most of these SNPs are either highly recurrent or, more likely, erroneous. Another possibility, depending upon the positioning of each SNP, is that there is more than one path along the phylogenetic tree from L21 to DF13.

From left: SNPID, Genotype, Raw result set reference number, Number of times the SNP occurs in all results.

Following on below, is a list of reference numbers to identify each set of raw results.

CTS1549 CC 002,009,010,012,016 = 5 occurrences
*CTS927 AG 002,004,009,016,017,021,027 = 7 occurrences
PF4432 CG 006,012,014,024 = 4 occurrences
PF5191 AA = 0 occurrence
S19777 AA 001,004,008,009,012,015,016,017,021,023 = 10 occurrences
S27519 GG 006,008,009,012,013,015,017,024,025 = 9 occurrences
*S2906 AG 002,004,009,016,017,021,027 = 7 occurrences
S3023 AA 001,004,008,009,012,015,016,017,021,023 = 10 occurrences
*S3826 AA 001,004,006,009,016,017,021,023 = 8 occurrences
S4276 AA 001,004,008,009,012,015,016,017,021,023 = 10 occurrences
S5681 AA 001,004,008,009,012,015,016,017,021,023 = 10 occurrences
S583 AA 001,004,008,009,012,015,016,017,021,023 = 10 occurrences
S6814 AA 001,004,008,009,012,015,016,017,021,023 = 10 occurrences
S7958 AG 008,023 = 2 occurrences
S8889 AA 001,004,008,009,012,015,016,017,021,023 = 10 occurrences
V244 AA 001,004,008,009,012,015,016,017,021,023 = 10 occurrences

*Appear to have been dropped by BDNA

001=Walsh fN54368 = 9 occurrences
002=Dunbar = 3 occurrences
003=Fritts f131998 = 0 occurrence
004=Macrae f143812 = 11 occurrences
005=Crawford f180639 = 0 occurrence
006=Noe f188436 >L513 = 3 occurrences
007=Williamson f196041 = 0 occurrence
008=Brunet f198135 = 10 occurrences
009=Buchanan f200481 = 13 occurrences
010=Callahan f201623 = 1 occurrence
011=Stryhn f210257 = 0 occurrence
012=Le Gall f23365 = 11 occurrences
013=McBride f235771 = 1 occurrence
014=Davitt f251441 = 1 occurrence
015=Preston f270944 = 9 occurrences
016=Cameron f285203 = 12 occurrences
017=Barry f288343 = 12 occurrences
018=Brown f290447 = 0 occurrence
019=Creer f35212 = 0 occurrence
020=Tate f44383 = 0 occurrence
021=MacMillan f48641 = 11 occurrences
022=Stevens f59080 = 0 occurrence
023=Wigland f65932 = 10 occurrences
024=Slavens f6897 = 2 occurrences
025=McFadden fB4058 = 1 occurrence
026=Milliken ff23702 = 0 occurrence
027=Singleton = 2 occurrences

Keith

MacUalraig
01-17-2014, 01:24 PM
S27519 has been dropped in the last few days.

DavidCar
01-17-2014, 05:10 PM
Sorry to disappoint you. PF4432 is negative in Barry Z253+, Buchanan Z253+, Walsh L513+ and Gardner L513+
PF4432 is also negative in Wigand DF13* and Brunet DF13*, but positive in Willis DF13*, as well as Le Gall Z253+ and Noe L513+.

So it looks like another unreliable SNP at this stage.

Greg H

Thanks, that helps. I don't know enough about L21 to recognize the bad SNPs. Has anyone made a list of all the bad SNPs? I've got my own list from U106 but I find other bad SNPs when comparing with a few L21s.

DavidCar
01-17-2014, 05:15 PM


001=Walsh fN54368 = 9 occurrences
002=Dunbar = 3 occurrences
003=Fritts f131998 = 0 occurrence
004=Macrae f143812 = 11 occurrences
005=Crawford f180639 = 0 occurrence
006=Noe f188436 >L513 = 3 occurrences
007=Williamson f196041 = 0 occurrence
008=Brunet f198135 = 10 occurrences
009=Buchanan f200481 = 13 occurrences
010=Callahan f201623 = 1 occurrence
011=Stryhn f210257 = 0 occurrence
012=Le Gall f23365 = 11 occurrences
013=McBride f235771 = 1 occurrence
014=Davitt f251441 = 1 occurrence
015=Preston f270944 = 9 occurrences
016=Cameron f285203 = 12 occurrences
017=Barry f288343 = 12 occurrences
018=Brown f290447 = 0 occurrence
019=Creer f35212 = 0 occurrence
020=Tate f44383 = 0 occurrence
021=MacMillan f48641 = 11 occurrences
022=Stevens f59080 = 0 occurrence
023=Wigland f65932 = 10 occurrences
024=Slavens f6897 = 2 occurrences
025=McFadden fB4058 = 1 occurrence
026=Milliken ff23702 = 0 occurrence
027=Singleton = 2 occurrences

Keith

Is this list in order of which kits should be phylogenetically next to each other? I've been thinking of doing my own comparison of U106 kits against L21 kits, but I don't know how to arrange the L21 kits.

Wolds Wanderer
01-17-2014, 06:01 PM
Is this list in order of which kits should be phylogenetically next to each other? I've been thinking of doing my own comparison of U106 kits against L21 kits, but I don't know how to arrange the L21 kits.

No, not at all. It's just as I pulled them from the Yahoo file.

Keith

cilldara
01-23-2014, 01:26 PM
I received my results yesterday. It took 7 weeks. I'm S603.

Mikewww
01-23-2014, 01:34 PM
I received my results yesterday. It took 7 weeks. I'm S603.
If you haven't already, please send me to me your raw results file. m w w d n a @gmail.com (no spaces)

I'll upload it to the L21 yahoo folder for Chromo 2 results so people can compare at the detail level. I'll incorporate those results in the R1b-L21 and R1b-M222 haplotypes spreadsheets so people can look at both the SNPs and STRs together.

Iain Kennedy will also want a copy for the M222 tree he maintains so it would be helpful to send it to him as well.

David Wheeler
01-31-2014, 06:14 PM
Hi, I just signed up to join this website after getting my results back from 23andme. I found out that I'm a M222, so after a quick google search for M222 Wheeler, I found this website. My father and grandfather had done some boots on the ground research, ended up going over to Kilkenny before they lost the paper trail they'd been following from town hall to town hall. So we know there is Irish ancestry and confirmed with the M222 results.

However, It looks like you guys know a whole lot more about this stuff than I do. I was wondering for starters what "Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)" means, and is there anything more I can find out or research I can be a part of?

-Thanks

Dubhthach
01-31-2014, 11:03 PM
David,

First off welcome to the world of genetic genealogy.

In case of "Wheeler f289737 (L21>DF13)" that can be explained as following:


Surname = Wheeler
Kit ID: 289737 -- tested with FamilytreeDNA (FTDNA)
L21+, DF13+ (negative for major subclades)


The version of the Y-Chromosome tree that 23andme use for testing is very outdated. It only tests for three branches under L21 one of these been M222. Over the last several years the picture has been broaden out by discovery of alot of new snp's each marking a particular branch/subclade. Here is a copy of Mike Walsh's latestet L21 cladeogram:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/R1b-L21_Tree_Chart.png

In your case with your 23andme test we can safely say that you are:

L21+ -> DF13+ -> DF49+ -> S476+ -> DF23+ -> Z2961+ -> M222+

Any common ancestry you share with f289737 is back at DF13 branch, which could be at any stage back to Bronze age, so definetly pre-surname formation.

M222 is a very large subclade, if you want to find closer connections with other M222+ men you will probably need to test with other genetic companies. ScotlandsDNA/IrelandsDNA for example are somewhat of the leaders at the moment with regards to testing of SNP's (23andme tested circa 1million SNP's across your genome) that define subclades of M222. If you look at Mike's tree the vast bulk of the branches under M222 come from their Chromo2 product.

In general I would recommend testing with FTDNA for STR's as these can help find closer matches within genealogical time. However I will warn that as hobbies go this one can be an expensive one :)

-Paul
(DF41+)

Wolds Wanderer
02-01-2014, 11:46 AM
Sorry David, Kit f289737 is mine but Wheeler is a red herring. Although Wheeler is my surname, it's not my ancestral surname. My great great grandfather ran away from home to join the army. To cover his tracks, he changed his name to his maternal grandmother's maiden name, Wheeler. So, although I do have some Wheeler DNA, it's not my paternal line.

Usually my kit number is prefixed by the name Willis; Wheeler must have slipped through one time.

Keith

Mikewww
03-07-2014, 12:35 AM
Jim Wilson's release of the Chromo 2 Anonymized 2000 file is great news to go with his release of the SNP positions in a standard format (hg19/GRCh37).

I've taken his file, stripped out the non-L21 folks, turned it on its side so each individual/person is a row and hid all of the all ancestral (-) SNPs. This makes the patterns much easier to spot. I've included the position numbers with the SNP labels so you can compare with Big Y and FGC results more easily. The file is here.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/R1b-L21_SNPs_Chromo2.zip

To make it really useful and integrate with STRs and with other company SNP results we need a cross-reference of Chromo spreadsheet IDs with FTDNA kits. I've got the 15 below already.

f8999 418 M222 R1b-M222*
f210257 601 CTS4466 R1b-S1136
f109174 749 DF13x R1b-CTS8221
fN54638 864 L513(L705.2) R1b-S215
f131998 872 L513(CTS3087) R1b-S215
f200481 915 Z253 R1b-S218
f288343 918 Z253(L1066/CTS9881) R1b-S218
f122950 957 DF49x R1b-S474
f35212 968 DF41(L563) R1b-S524
f289737 982 FGC5496 R1b-S7958/FGC5495
f196041 1011 DF21 R1b-S190*
f270944 1404 L1335(L1065) R1b-S530
fN44383 1406 L1335(L1065) R1b-S530
f143812 1435 L1335(L1065) R1b-S530
f48641 1450 L1335(L1065) R1b-S530

There are only 760 to go! I know not all have kit #s and not all will respond but if we could build up a couple of hundred in the cross-reference that would be huge. It would support a surrogate "public project" for Chromo 2 people. Even if you don't have an FTDNA kit #, if you have a Ysearch ID, I'll take that (I just don't trust Ysearch).

To get your correct spreadsheet ID #, please don't guess by looking at the results. Just get it from BISDN. You have to email Angelika Krist at angelika@scotlandsdna.com

I've asked Jim Wilson to give us periodic updates to the big Anonymized 2000 spreadsheet.

Mikewww
03-07-2014, 05:21 PM
I've updated this file to make it much more friendly for L21 people. It is much smaller - only 1MB versus 27 MB.
I delete all of the not relevant SNPs and sorted the SNP columns by highest frequency derived's to the left. This makes it much easier to see the tree unfold from older SNPs to younger, left to right. It is at the link below.


Jim Wilson's release of the Chromo 2 Anonymized 2000 file is great news to go with his release of the SNP positions in a standard format (hg19/GRCh37).

I've taken his file, stripped out the non-L21 folks, turned it on its side so each individual/person is a row and hid all of the all ancestral (-) SNPs. This makes the patterns much easier to spot. I've included the position numbers with the SNP labels so you can compare with Big Y and FGC results more easily. The file is here.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/R1b-L21_SNPs_Chromo2.zip

To make it really useful and integrate with STRs and with other company SNP results we need a cross-reference of Chromo spreadsheet IDs with FTDNA kits. I've got the 15 below already.....

To get your correct spreadsheet ID #, please don't guess by looking at the results. Just get it from BISDNA. You have to email Angelika Krist at angelika@scotlandsdna.com

I've asked Jim Wilson to give us periodic updates to the big Anonymized 2000 spreadsheet.

Barellalee
04-13-2014, 10:02 PM
Thisis very iinteresting how certain Haplotypes are aligned to tribes here. I am I2a1c. How, for example, do they draw a connection with that an the Chauci tribe as origin, for example?

seferhabahir
04-15-2014, 12:36 AM
Here is a copy of Mike Walsh's latestet L21 cladeogram:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/R1b-L21_Tree_Chart.png


-Paul
(DF41+)


Is there a later version of this tree? This seems to be the latest. Mike will need to put L583 under S9294 whenever the next version gets made, since I'm positive for S11556 and for S9294.

Dubhthach
04-15-2014, 08:29 AM
Is there a later version of this tree? This seems to be the latest. Mike will need to put L583 under S9294 whenever the next version gets made, since I'm positive for S11556 and for S9294.

Well Mike obviously updated it with same URL back at beginning of April (my post above was from January). I imagine he will updated when he gets a chance. There's some big changes coming through that's for sure.

-Paul
(DF41+)