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View Full Version : Passing memory through DNA....fact or fiction!?



Finn
04-21-2018, 04:48 PM
Is this fact or fiction? And why?


See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Woh23cXbAJE

ajc347
04-21-2018, 05:01 PM
I love the idea on a conceptual level and it sounds quite similar to Jung's idea of the Collective Unconscious. Being able to prove it on an empirical level would, though, be nigh on impossible.

giorgio
04-21-2018, 07:39 PM
I think so.

Sebbo
04-22-2018, 05:50 PM
There appears to be some evidence for this

Kale
04-23-2018, 06:47 AM
I love the idea on a conceptual level and it sounds quite similar to Jung's idea of the Collective Unconscious. Being able to prove it on an empirical level would, though, be nigh on impossible.

Reading up a bit on Jung right now in my diploma mill classes. Collective unconscious sounds nothing like this, rather just human instinct + basic cultural values.

Sebbo
04-23-2018, 08:07 AM
The Telegraph (British paper) reported that phobias may be memories passed down.

ajc347
04-23-2018, 09:53 AM
Reading up a bit on Jung right now in my diploma mill classes. Collective unconscious sounds nothing like this, rather just human instinct + basic cultural values.

I have to disagree with you there I'm afraid. Jung saw the collective unconscious as a rich source of cultural and psychological motifs as evidenced by his understanding of the archetypal content which makes up the collective unconscious. The following link gives a good summary of how his thoughts on this developed over time:

https://aras.org/about/what-are-archetypes

Other authors have sought to take things a stage further by incorporating the idea of the collective unconscious into their theories. An example of this is Sheldrake's Morphic Resonance theory which is detailed in the link below:

https://www.sheldrake.org/research/morphic-resonance/part-i-mind-memory-and-archetype-morphic-resonance-and-the-collective-unconscious

The key element of both theories are that they allow the idea of collective memory to be positioned outside of an individual being, hence my comment on the similarity of the collective unconscious to the video Finn originally posted. In retrospect, it might have made more sense to have cited Sheldrake's Morphic Resonance theory as an example of similarity as well as the collective unconscious.

As I've mentioned above, whilst these theories sound appealing on one level, the prospect of being able to prove them empirally is another matter altogether.

evon
04-23-2018, 10:23 AM
Is this fact or fiction? And why?


See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Woh23cXbAJE

I think there is something to this, but I do not think we are talking about memories in the conventional way. Seems to me that extreme trauma that changed the genes in a parent, could subsequently be passed on to the offspring. However, the way this affects the offspring might be very different from how it affected the parent in the first place. I suspect my family has inherited some "changed genes" from a few individuals in our family tree that experienced extreme trauma, such as war, persecution and possibly slavery during the 17-1900's..

ajc347
04-23-2018, 12:48 PM
I've just found the following article which discusses the concept of genetic memory and it has some interesting material in it.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/genetic-memory-how-we-know-things-we-never-learned/

Judith
05-01-2018, 07:47 PM
My instinct says it is fiction using their analogy that instincts are genetic memories.
I totally agree that untutored talent can have a genetic component since a talent does not always get a chance to be expressed. But trauma would be passed down due to the behaviour of the traumatised person not his or her genetic contribution. It could only be proven by a seperated at birth twins experiment. Since considerably fewer babies are being put up for adoption nowadays it seems unlikely to be proven either.
Given the reputation of the contributors of the nicely put together videos then I suggest that this is an experiment in public gullibility!

MitchellSince1893
05-01-2018, 11:41 PM
Donít know about humans but mice have genetic memory
https://www.nature.com/news/fearful-memories-haunt-mouse-descendants-1.14272


Heritable traits
Studying the biological basis for those effects in humans would be difficult. So Ressler and his colleague Brian Dias opted to study epigenetic inheritance in laboratory mice trained to fear the smell of acetophenone, a chemical the scent of which has been compared to those of cherries and almonds. He and Dias wafted the scent around a small chamber, while giving small electric shocks to male mice. The animals eventually learned to associate the scent with pain, shuddering in the presence of acetophenone even without a shock.

This reaction was passed on to their pups, Dias and Ressler report today in Nature Neuroscience1. Despite never having encountered acetophenone in their lives, the offspring exhibited increased sensitivity when introduced to its smell, shuddering more markedly in its presence compared with the descendants of mice that had been conditioned to be startled by a different smell or that had gone through no such conditioning. A third generation of mice ó the 'grandchildren' ó also inherited this reaction, as did mice conceived through in vitro fertilization with sperm from males sensitized to acetophenone. Similar experiments showed that the response can also be transmitted down from the mother.

Paul Shunamon
02-18-2019, 02:35 PM
I am somewhat new here and I notice this topic is somewhat old (05/2018) but I want to add some witness to this suspected phenomenon. One of the things I notice in my own life (which I only found out recently) is that propensities, interests, and insights somehow appear to be carried on. In my own life, though many in my family are builders and musicians (a talent passed down...we all can play and sing), I had a curious insatiable interest in philosophy, psychology, theology, mysticism (symbols and archetypes particularly), and so on. Then when exploring family roots and heritage I found these same interests in past relatives. One on my father's side (only a few generations back) preceded bby another about 5 generations ago, and one (on my mothers side) who had published many works (in the Scottish Dalrymple clan) about history of the church, the early church fathers, and more which were areas I had previously been drawn to intensely.

I also shared a distinct memory once about an event in Haymarket Sq Boston only to find it was not mine but my moms (which she had totally forgotten and never thought significant enough to speak about) which she witnessed when I was just a babe in the belly....go figure....

Then when I was watching Professor Henry Gates (a history detective on PBS) do the past of Paul Ryan and Tulsi Gabbard I saw the same pattern. Ryans great great grand was a lawyer and two had entered public service (one of whom was a politician). After a few generations of poor workers he found attraction to this (unaware) and well we know he is now a senator.

Tulsi Gabbard's story was a little different showing a lineage of interest in military service and care for the downtrodden...what is really strange was that her parents allegedly had chosen her name randomly (tulsi) but in the historical search it turned out her great great great was a well known person in Samoa who lived in a town named Tulsi (who could have known?).

So though we may never find "scientific proof" of such a thing there is evidence for it.

So though never encouraged in this direction I could see a clear lineage of interest

Angriff
02-20-2019, 03:06 AM
I've suspected this is the case since learning some foreign languages. I found languages with recent family history much, much easier to learn and I retain them better.

Rupert Sheldrake has done some studies that show signs of inherited memory in animals as well.

mildlycurly
02-21-2019, 02:01 PM
Genetic memory is an interesting subject to me, as I've long been drawn to cultures that it later turns out I have heritage from.

It's been suggested that the reason for the children and grandchildren of Holocaust survivors being disproportionately treated for mental health issues is genetic trauma. Some have also said the same about the descendants of slaves. On a global scale, the rise in mental health issues post WWII could be due to inherited trauma.

It's so fascinating.

MitchellSince1893
02-21-2019, 03:40 PM
I keep hoping I have a genetic memory of the name of my father’s mystery paternal great grand father. So far nothing. ;-)

Lirio100
02-21-2019, 06:42 PM
I go back and forth on this. I like to make things, and garden. I particularly like roses; my great grandfather came from a farming family in England but here in the US he ended up as a gardener at an estate in Detroit called Rose Hill. My grandfather always grew roses, as did my father. I always make sure to have a few bushes too. Memory or learned trait, or as a way to preserve a childhood memory of a parent growing them?

Go not far back and you'll find most people made things on their own, either from necessity or desire. I've learned to sew, to spin, to weave, generally quite a few crafts. At the same time, even with encouragement and apparent ability, neither of my children is inclined that way. And they both have black thumbs.

Even phobias--I literally break out in hives if I can't remove a spider from the vicinity while my mother and siblings have no problem smacking one. With the Holocaust survivors the preference for mental health occupations could just as likely be from a desire to recover from, understand the trauma, and deal with it as from inherited trauma.

As expressed above, I don't think there's a way to empirically prove the idea.

JosephK
02-21-2019, 06:48 PM
There's some truth to this sort of thing... it's referred to as "epigenetics"... experiences can affect DNA expression for several generations.

Paul Shunamon
04-26-2019, 10:55 AM
There's some truth to this sort of thing... it's referred to as "epigenetics"... experiences can affect DNA expression for several generations.

I agree...Epigenetics plays a role. Today the work of Denis Noble is showing it possibly has more of an import than most Evolutionary Biologists would have previously admitted (though his work more emphasizes physical propensities).