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curiousII
04-25-2018, 11:24 PM
This used to be on the news a lot in California, the East Side or East Area Rapist. It appears he's been caught now using DNA comparisons: http://fox40.com/2018/04/25/former-auburn-police-officer-named-as-suspect-in-east-area-rapist-case/

I have a lot of comments, but I'll save them. DeAngelo deserves a fair trial but the fact that he's an ex-police officer, combined with all the negative press that the nation's law enforcement agencies are experiencing now, is really going to hit him hard. No idea where he can get a change of venue to, but I doubt if he can get his trial out of California. Worse luck for him.

We really have to hope that CODIS is reliable. It's not the same science as that which Family Tree uses, but DNA Consultants and DNA Tribes are two that market commercial autosomal tests using CODIS markers. I'll save my comments for later.

curiousII
04-27-2018, 05:25 AM
This is worthy of a post of it's own rather than edit the original post. The East Area Rapist was caught by law enforcement using information from a commercial genealogy and DNA company's customers' results: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/04/26/authorities-begin-racking-up-cases-against-golden-state-killer-suspect-ex-cop-turned-mechanic/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5765d367f8eb

I mean that's good, that's solid, responsible police work that brought down one horrendously prolific criminal. But, of course that's always going to reopen the debate of what and who has access to a person's DNA once he or she has sent spit in for analysis. "Familial DNA," a couple of results: https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/familial-dna-searches.html and https://www.wired.com/2015/10/familial-dna-evidence-turns-innocent-people-into-crime-suspects/ and http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-familial-dna-20161023-snap-story.html and so on.

But which company did the police use this time? Wasn't 23andMe or Ancestry.com, according to those two companies. Maybe something like DNA Consultants or DNA Tribes that use CODIS for consumer autosomal tests. Probably not, though, as CODIS results aren't anywhere near as conclusive as the tests given by Family Tree.

Hmm, Family Tree...

Osiris
04-27-2018, 06:14 AM
There was a guy here early last month claiming to be a news reporter who had some STR results he said a policeman gave him that came from a killer. He was asking for advice on how he could use them to catch the guy. Around Mar 5. Oddly enough I can't find the thread anymore.

Hmm indeed.

curiousII
04-27-2018, 11:18 PM
Hmm indeed.

Nope, GEDmatch! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/04/27/golden-state-killer-dna-website-gedmatch-was-used-to-identify-joseph-deangelo-as-suspect-police-say/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.022db910b84d

I posted this in the "Medical Genetics" forum, I'm going to put it here, too. It popped up in one of the Family Tree projects right after DeAngelo hit the press, and, though it's a wonderful offer from Promethease, it couldn't be worse timing. I've already uploaded my Family Finder autosomal to their site, found out so far I'm light-skinned with normal body odor and have wet, yellow ear wax. I guess there's other important things in there but since they analyze thousands of SNPs it'll take me a while to get past my ear wax.

Unless I just got some unknown cousin of mine busted for something I know nothing about and he/she comes gunning for me. I'll grease the floor with my ear wax, he'll fall and drop his gun, maybe.

NOTE that this is considering your genes in terms of your inherited health!

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Osiris
04-27-2018, 11:59 PM
Nope, GEDmatch! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/04/27/golden-state-killer-dna-website-gedmatch-was-used-to-identify-joseph-deangelo-as-suspect-police-say/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.022db910b84d



Then it must have been some other case being researched. If adoptees can find biological family through DNA and police can find suspects through the DNA clues they left. Although unidentified bodies might also be identified. There was a case a year or so ago here where they found a bag containing the fingers of a small child they estimated were abandoned in 2005. They had no clue who they belonged too.

I wonder how this will shake out in the next few years. Interesting time.

curiousII
04-28-2018, 12:25 AM
I wonder how this will shake out in the next few years. Interesting time.

Right, and I bet that'll turn out to be a real understatement.

Gail said on Family Tree that Promethease is "...not a public website, unlike say Gedmatch." I'm certain she's right, but I also know that Family Tree customers who are members of certain projects have their DNA results on the Web that can be accessed by the general public. The Big Tree does, too, and all you need is the corresponding FTDNA kit number to match things up. I'm sure that's not hard to do for an experienced (or amateur, actually) hack to do.

This is going to get interesting and no telling how it'll affect DNA company's practices. Right after Family Tree's Y500 got posted, too. This is all really coincidental.

slievenamon
04-28-2018, 01:20 AM
Scottsdale, Arizona recently solved a cold case through familial DNA. Medical Examiners routinely identify bodies with forensic DNA. A Project member found an unknown sister. Sixty plus years - no knowledge of each other. Their family's are over the moon. The same discovery can cause unnecessary family disruption. It's all becoming commonplace.

Shared your Promethease post with Project members. Thanks for that. The timing is not the best. Agreed. What can you do? The onus is on each of us to protect our DNA, as best we can. We may have more transparency now, regarding the use of public DNA. More awareness. This use has been going on for some time, as Osiris intimated.

DNA has certainly changed the privacy landscape. Interesting times, indeed!

curiousII
04-29-2018, 02:02 AM
The onus is on each of us to protect our DNA, as best we can. We may have more transparency now, regarding the use of public DNA. More awareness. This use has been going on for some time, as Osiris intimated.

DNA has certainly changed the privacy landscape. Interesting times, indeed!

Seriously, you have to read this one: http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article209958794.html

"While most consumers would submit DNA to a commercial company such as Ancestry.com and 23andMe to create a genetic profile, the FBI did so for investigators...The profile was then uploaded to GEDmatch using a fake profile and pseudonym, the Times reported. The site allows users to remain anonymous."

"Fake profile and pseudonym." You understand what that does to consumers who are trying to research their families? Orphans and adoptees trying to find out who their biological families are? I'm sure you do, no need for a rant on my part.

Both paper and genetic trails are jokes now, we're simply buffoons wasting our money on a "science" that could cause our true bloodlines to end. Honestly, this is passive genocide. We sacrifice our privacy and personal information in the hopes of finding the unconditional love that a biological family is supposed to afford one another, but we're derailed by totalitarian police tactics that cause us to sacrifice relatives we don't and won't ever know. If the DNA profile that was uploaded to GEDmatch is false, then how do we know the actual results are valid? It's all a mockery.

Family Tree and YSearch are both mentioned in the article, and both deny any knowledge of what went on. We're defenseless. And we're even more alone now than we were when we sent in our spit.

I have some spit for people now.

Messier 67
04-29-2018, 02:50 AM
So you can walk down the street, spit on the side walk and moments later a pedestrian is stabbed and falls on your saliva, picks it up on her skin. The coppers see the saliva on the skin, assume it was either her's or her killer's and then 20 years later, you provided DNA to a testing company and...

This is assuming no political takedowns occur. For instance, Russian Senator wants to defund the FSB of Russia. Putin disagrees, Senator's DNA is in public. FSB says his DNA tests positive to an old murder case. "Hey, it's on TV, so you have to believe that the Russian Senator is the killer".

This is Orwellian.

So are they wanting people to only test dying male relatives, so the alive ones don't have to be paranoid about sending in their DNA samples.

curiousII
04-29-2018, 03:10 AM
So you can walk down the street, spit on the side walk and moments later a pedestrian is stabbed and falls on your saliva, picks it up on her skin. The coppers see the saliva on the skin, assume it was either her's or her killer's and then 20 years later, you provided DNA to a testing company and...

Great analogy, I had to read that a couple of times. Perhaps I'll save my spit.

Messier 67
04-29-2018, 03:14 AM
There should be a movement to prevent DNA testing being used in the criminal-justice system. Also a movement to prevent health insurance companies from denying people based on DNA testing.

This should only be for consumer use.

curiousII
04-29-2018, 04:02 AM
There should be a movement to prevent DNA testing being used in the criminal-justice system. Also a movement to prevent health insurance companies from denying people based on DNA testing.

This should only be for consumer use.

You know, it's hard to describe your feelings if and when you find out you've been duped by a DNA company. It's almost like an ultimate betrayal, you look to find who you are and what sort of family you came from and instead you find you've been played for a fool by some Craigslist killer who's figured out how to infest sites like GEDmatch or YSearch. Then, you fall prey not only for that perp but to the police chasing him.

That would be quite a bit of pain. What kind of movement or group could salve that hurt? In many ways it's too late now, a great damage has already taken place. But you're right, this example cannot but set some kind of precautions and safeguards in motion with these genetic testing companies. It's always too late, though, some tragedy always has to happen first.

And, can't lose sight of the EAR's victims in our self-pity. Or my self-pity, anyway, having to remember to speak for myself and my wallet which I've emptied into DNA tests. DeAngelo's fair trial is vital now to many who'd consider themselves uninvolved parties.

uintah106
04-29-2018, 04:36 AM
How are we duped? By our own stupidity. Don't sign up for this if you can't handle the outcome.

uintah106
04-29-2018, 04:48 AM
If your relative is a murderer ,good got him.

uintah106
04-29-2018, 05:02 AM
I'm not afraid

curiousII
04-29-2018, 06:52 AM
How are we duped? By our own stupidity. Don't sign up for this if you can't handle the outcome.

In a way, you're right. Genetic testing is still a new science, new discoveries all the time and bound to be a lot of surprises. But in America, at least, we're supposed to at least have a small sense of privacy and security left to us. Age of the Internet and Google has taken a lot of that from us but apparently those in control of things believe the sacrifice of privacy is a fair trade for all the technology we have given to us via the Internet.

Something as discordant as what just happened with GEDmatch brings it home to us, in a way. Genetic fingerprints are new to us just as much as our physical fingerprinting by law enforcement was in 1892, or when mug shots were invented in the 1880's. Usually the criminals protest the loudest when new police science is invented. This time, I don't know, it seems like a lot of innocents might suffer damage along the way.

curiousII
04-29-2018, 07:09 AM
Warrants or subponeas to access GEDmatch? They say they don't need no stinkin' warrants!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kArpSqZfsNI

This video is so versatile, I use it everywhere.

rms2
04-29-2018, 11:46 AM
So you can walk down the street, spit on the side walk and moments later a pedestrian is stabbed and falls on your saliva, picks it up on her skin. The coppers see the saliva on the skin, assume it was either her's or her killer's and then 20 years later, you provided DNA to a testing company and...

How likely is that? And how likely would such a scenario be to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt (the standard in criminal cases)? But a serial criminal whose dna shows up at multiple crime scenes? He must have spit on a lot of sidewalks where rape/murder victims just happened to fall.



This is assuming no political takedowns occur. For instance, Russian Senator wants to defund the FSB of Russia. Putin disagrees, Senator's DNA is in public. FSB says his DNA tests positive to an old murder case. "Hey, it's on TV, so you have to believe that the Russian Senator is the killer".

This is Orwellian.

So are they wanting people to only test dying male relatives, so the alive ones don't have to be paranoid about sending in their DNA samples.

If you fall afoul of Putin, you think he needs to go to the trouble of building a dna case against you?

Let's face it, any unscrupulous person in a position of real power is dangerous, dna or no dna.

curiousII
04-29-2018, 07:58 PM
Ever try to match up your GEDmatch kit with ancient DNA uploads there? I have, there's a couple of threads here that speak of it and how easy it is to upload a fossil's file (post #268): https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8672-List-of-ancient-samples-on-GEDmatch&p=386058#post386058

I post on that thread and I've compared my results "One-to-one" with ancient DNA files there. Lots of fun if not all too accurate as you have to lower the thresholds to 50/3 to get results. Did that with the Tollense Battle thread until some killjoy came along and said it's all irrelevant.

But see how so many things can be affected now with this bust? Even uploading ancient autosomal DNA by Anthrogenica citizen-scientists; in theory all that could come to an end now.

Osiris
04-30-2018, 05:52 AM
There are a lot of feasible DNA pitfalls that investigators should make sure to avoid. There was an interesting episode of Elementary early on where the killer left blood behind that matches an innocent man because the killer had undergone a bone marrow transplant and the innocent guy was the donor. Also cases where a son isn't the biological son of a couple due to switched at hospital which could point investigators in the completely wrong direction.

What I'd hope for is just some ethical guidelines on how to handle cases where you have DNA and want to use it to find the family of the perpetrator to narrow in on the guilty party. I'm worried we'll see some poorly thought out over reactions written into the law when I don't think that's really necessary.

curiousII
04-30-2018, 06:28 AM
There are a lot of feasible DNA pitfalls that investigators should make sure to avoid. There was an interesting episode of Elementary early on where the killer left blood behind that matches an innocent man because the killer had undergone a bone marrow transplant and the innocent guy was the donor. Also cases where a son isn't the biological son of a couple due to switched at hospital which could point investigators in the completely wrong direction.

What I'd hope for is just some ethical guidelines on how to handle cases where you have DNA and want to use it to find the family of the perpetrator to narrow in on the guilty party. I'm worried we'll see some poorly thought out over reactions written into the law when I don't think that's really necessary.

You can probably find better examples but this one of twins and crime is good as it shows a mutation in the genes: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25371014

Surprisingly there's multiple examples of fertility doctors who used their own sperm to impregnate their customers all the while stating that they had anonymous donors: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2017/12/14/fertility-doctor-accused-impregnating-patients-with-own-sperm-receives-no-jail-time.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_Jacobson are just two examples. These are caught by parental DNA testing.

"Ethical guidelines," really needed to avoid "knee-jerk reactions" which we could all be subject to once the public really lets this sink in. Genetics appears to have been manipulated and abused not only by science and the doctors behind the study but now, also, by law enforcement. We're the ones at risk now, who knows who's had access to our files? What if the general public decides to clump in all our "citizen-scientists" into one big mass of potential crime? Remember DNA testing is illegal in France, so there's already a precedent in place if a nation were to decide to ban the science outright.

curiousII
05-01-2018, 12:43 AM
Just found this article, it's from a couple of months ago and before the EAR bust: https://gizmodo.com/what-dna-testing-companies-terrifying-privacy-policies-1819158337

One of the co-admins in the Family Tree DNA project really pushes Yahoo haplogroup membership, and when your Big Y comes in he also directs you to send it off to DNA Warehouse. I did the latter, but I'm not in any Yahoo DNA group now. Here's the example of you taking one DNA test and getting your results spread around to numerous websites. That's spread pretty thin.

I'm on The Big Tree and my VCF file's at YFull, but I haven't gotten my BAM file back so my inclusion there isn't complete yet. I did get into my specific haplogroup group as I'd backed my DF27>Z2573 with SNP tests at both FTDNA and YSEQ, but it's all still incomplete until my BAM file gets here.

So it appears my genes are at all the at-risk hotspots now. Except for the Yahoo groups, of course. If someone wanted to hack my genes, there's not much to be done to stop him or them. No idea why I'd be a target, seems like someone in the U106 kings cluster somewhere would be much more profitable to clone. Sure don't want to give these dudes any ideas, though.

curiousII
05-03-2018, 04:51 AM
A quick search didn't give many results for any ACLU commentary on EAR and DNA websites. Matter of fact, this video is the only hit I got:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Amnc2lstPQ

And I just realized the election's almost here, I got my sample ballot in the mail yesterday. Relevance? Gov. Brown was in office the first time when EAR started catching the news, and he's just about to finish his last term. He's been getting a lot of criticism from the federal government for certain political positions he's taken; I don't want to stray off topic but recent developments in DC had at least one reporter talking of the "deafening silence of the ACLU" when a certain lawyer's office was raided by the FBI.

Not much on the Web about this particular EAR bust from that civil liberties organization. Nor could I find any statement from Gov. Brown himself. No idea what this means or if it means anything at all, but there's certainly a shake-up at Family Tree already.

curiousII
05-14-2018, 08:38 PM
"The innovative strategy of using consumer genealogy websites for criminal investigations is fraught with questions about privacy and civil liberties. Sacramento County Dist. Atty. Anne Marie Schubert...was responsible for what became known as the "John Doe warrant," which sought evidence from an unnamed suspect based on his DNA."

DeAngelo's attorney isn't wanting to let info on how he was caught let loose to the public: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-golden-state-killer-court-20180514-story.html

This, from an earlier article:

"The company whose genetic website was used by investigators...says it was never contacted by law enforcement. A spokeswoman for FamilyTreeDNA.com, which operates YSearch.org, says Friday that the company takes the privacy of its customers seriously. But, the company says it supports 'ethically and legally justified uses of groundbreaking advancements of scientific research in genetics and genealogy.' Court records obtained by The Associated Press showed that investigators used a genetic profile based off DNA from crime scenes linked to the serial killer and compared it to information from YSearch.org." https://wtop.com/national/2018/04/the-latest-investigator-free-dna-website-helped-crack-case/

I sent over my y-DNA to YSearch and I always read on Family Tree that YSearch is basically defunct, that it has no one person or group keeping it apace with Family Tree or any other company. I wonder who the FTDNA spokesperson is that law enforcement talked to? We always hear that 12 Marker matches are useless; now it seems they're good enough for subpoena purposes. I'm Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype and (just checked) I have 6,974 12 Marker matches. This number changes every couple of days.

Interesting viewpoint:

"DNA is a matter of science, not conjecture. DNA does not lie or change its story. DNA suffers no sudden loss of memory, and has no need to plead the Fifth Amendment. The value of DNA as tool to convict the guilty and clear the innocent outweighs the concerns over privacy." http://dailycaller.com/2018/05/11/genetic-evidence-identified-golden-state-killer-but-alarmists-want-it-barred/

I know at least one admin from a Family Tree project I'm in deleted his Family Tree, removed his photo from his Profile, and actually took his name down and just uses his initials when he posts to projects. Comments found in other projects include suppositions that it's great to have your DNA on file to catch crooks and send your DNA in to the FBI and get a bounty if it's useful in catching a perp. Certainly that last was made in jest. This link was posted in one: https://dna-explained.com/2018/04/30/the-golden-state-killer-and-dna/

However this ends, our days of being simple amateur online genealogists are soon to be over.

Saetro
05-14-2018, 11:44 PM
Remember DNA testing is illegal in France

Any DNA test that can identify a father is illegal in France.

Saetro
05-15-2018, 12:05 AM
DeAngelo's attorney isn't wanting to let info on how he was caught let loose to the public: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-golden-state-killer-court-20180514-story.html

If you were his attorney, would you not want to prevent the public (and any potential jurors) prejudging the case?
The stuff in the press might be bad enough, but the stuff in the legal documents is surely part of the case.

There are two aspects in this whole situation that seem to be ignored in most comments:
1) there is already a massive CODIS database available to Law Enforcement (LE) that can be used to identify family.
LE is also using additional autosomal tools to estimate appearance, ethnicity and other characteristics.
(Heaps of papers on this stuff in forensic journals.)
2) the DNA was first used in this case to RELEASE an innocent person who had been imprisoned for decades in connection with this case.
(There seems to be no discussion at all about why this person had been convicted and what had been in error and what if any compensation might be being offered.)

Also - comments that DNA might be carried over to an innocent person, or used to fit someone up relate to previous cases and would not be any easier with genetic genealogy.
LE still needs to use a CODIS type or similar highly discriminating test to exclude anyone else.
Not to mention all of that information most people leave on social media or exercise sites. Noone seems to be campaigning to have that unavailable to LE - or are they?


We always hear that 12 Marker matches are useless; now it seems they're good enough for subpoena purposes. I'm Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype and (just checked) I have 6,974 12 Marker matches.
So you could easily challenge a subpoena based on a 12 marker match.
Really, that's like saying the perp has the surname "Smith" and you do too.

I have ZERO matches at 12 markers due to a rare haplotype.
If someone turns up as a match, then they are certainly related.
But statistically they are probably distant cousins: far more evidence would be required in an eventual court case, but with me LE would probably have grounds for getting a sample from me.

I think some people should read up on old cases where a person was brought into court and few words were said before someone was condemned to death in as little as 15 minutes.
With the sentence being carried out not long afterwards without the chance of appeal.
Modern system might be imperfect but it has improved.

curiousII
05-15-2018, 01:10 AM
If you were his attorney, would you not want to prevent the public (and any potential jurors) prejudging the case?

Of course not, good point. But you know the newshounds are going to be wanting to follow the whole show along as it's happening.


There are two aspects in this whole situation that seem to be ignored in most comments:
1) there is already a massive CODIS database available to Law Enforcement (LE) that can be used to identify family.
LE is also using additional autosomal tools to estimate appearance, ethnicity and other characteristics.
(Heaps of papers on this stuff in forensic journals.)

Have you ever taken an autosomal DNA test from a company that uses that process? DNA Tribes is one. Quite a bit different from the process Family Tree uses and some startling differences in the results. I don't think CODIS is preferable, but that's what LE uses at the moment and the CODIS autosomal test I took (from another company) is years old now, so maybe I'm not being fair about it. But I certainly wouldn't want to put money into a CODIS test again when I can use Family Tree or one of its competitors.


2) the DNA was first used in this case to RELEASE an innocent person who had been imprisoned for decades in connection with this case.
(There seems to be no discussion at all about why this person had been convicted and what had been in error and what if any compensation might be being offered.)

I've found articles about a suspect in a nursing home that was tested for GSK DNA, but was cleared after the results came back. I haven't found anything about anyone being convicted for EAR/GSK crimes, though. Do you have a link?


Also - comments that DNA might be carried over to an innocent person, or used to fit someone up relate to previous cases and would not be any easier with genetic genealogy.
LE still needs to use a CODIS type or similar highly discriminating test to exclude anyone else.
Not to mention all of that information most people leave on social media or exercise sites. No one seems to be campaigning to have that unavailable to LE - or are they?

I have an old post around this site somewhere about synthetic DNA (AGTC and now XY) when it hit the news a year ago, wish I could find it now. This is on the Web: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_gene_synthesis and this is a good article: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2017/11/30/dna-base-pair-codon-artificial/#.WvowU9-YUb0

There's more, I'm sure you can find better. But from what I remember from the article I read a year ago yes, your DNA can be replicated. That's terrifying, but true. There was something in the article that said science can tell the difference between natural DNA and a new product, something about the synthesis but I could be remembering incorrectly. So no, DNA is not the perfect crime-solving tool it's purported to be as it can be produced and placed wherever Dr. Evil Dude wants, except his nemesis Dr. Nice Man can (or should be able to) see where the alteration takes place in the chain. Something like that and my post is around here somewhere; I'll see if I can find it.


So you could easily challenge a subpoena based on a 12 marker match.
Really, that's like saying the perp has the surname "Smith" and you do too.

That seems to be correct at this writing, true.


I think some people should read up on old cases where a person was brought into court and few words were said before someone was condemned to death in as little as 15 minutes.
With the sentence being carried out not long afterwards without the chance of appeal.
Modern system might be imperfect but it has improved.

You're right again, and I found this: https://www.wired.com/story/detectives-cracked-the-golden-state-killer-case-using-genetics/

"After 33 days in police custody a DNA test cleared Michael Usry, and Ancestry has since shuttered the database."

Arrested for a familial DNA match, but then cleared after he took a test. "But it highlighted two big potential problems with this kind of familial searching." That's an understatement.

curiousII
05-27-2018, 08:09 PM
the DNA was first used in this case to RELEASE an innocent person who had been imprisoned for decades in connection with this case.
(There seems to be no discussion at all about why this person had been convicted and what had been in error and what if any compensation might be being offered.)

I found this, it may be the person you're referring to: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/04/30/did-man-serve-39-years-for-slayings-actually-committed-by-golden-state-killer-suspect/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c18337a8fdaf and http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-simi-pardon-evidence-20171124-story.html

From what I can figure out, the murder itself hasn't been definitively laid on DeAngelo yet. But that argument can be used on a lot of crimes that LE are trying to put on him now that he's in jail. That's typical LE tactics: if they grab someone for one thing, they'll try to lay as many similar crimes on that person as they can.

But actually one of the GSK's crimes? Could be, but then this:

"Deputy Chief Joseph May, of the Simi Valley Police Department, told CBS Los Angeles it is 'within the realm of possibility that he could be a suspect in our case.' The time periods for the crimes match up, and so do the general locations. 'He is suspected of committing a homicide in Ventura County,' May said. 'We’re part of Ventura County.'”

"Within the realm of possibility" is grasping, "He is suspected of committing a homicide in Ventura County. We're part of Ventura County." Well, there it is. GSK's suspected of committing crimes in Ventura County and, yes, there was a crime there as a matter of fact. Done deal, case closed.

Noticed all the furor at Family Tree since the GDPR started a couple of days ago? I think the fair and impartial trial of DeAngelo is tantamount to all our safety and privacy with our genetic information that Family Tree, GEDMatch, YSearch (which is defunct now according to emails from Family Tree) for if he cannot have a fair trial, then neither will our digital chromosomes on file with these companies. But I'm in the United States and I may not have the same viewpoint on crime and guilt as other countries have. That could be a personal problem of mine, but I imagine Craig Coley probably thinks along the same lines. I also imagine that the real GSK's victims would also share that belief as I suspect that they'd wish their true killer be punished rather than a stranger. Coley was Wicht's ex-boyfriend, and even if she didn't carry the same sentiments for him during their break-up as she did when they were together, she may not have wished to see him lose the majority of his life to confinement for her death.

Personally I believe that wrongful imprisonment for an horrendous crime that you did not commit is one of the worst things that can happen to a citizen of the United States. In this day of equality between the sexes, the removal of fathers from the American family ("I'm tired of angry fathers!" is a quote from the Web I've remembered for maybe 14 years now), and eye witnesses who either deliberately lie or who distort their testimony for cash, drugs, or other reasons have simply destroyed the lives of too many people for that type of law enforcement to continue. We're nearing the science that can eliminate human error and fickleness from witness court testimony and, once here, that science should be implemented immediately. The stigma and ostracization that follows confinement for a crimes of this nature, crimes against women, are so debilitating now in the days of " no possible rehab for sex offenders" makes the false imprisonment after a wrongful conviction unendurable by a man, there is no way to recompense him after realizing the depths of human depravity exist on both sides of the wall.

But science has also found a way to create DNA, like I mentioned before. I think the article I found a while back spoke of methylation (not "synthesis" as I misquoted before) as a method for determining if DNA was faked or real; this may further that: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9217255

But if crime does figure a way around methylation evidence, then it's all back to the basics in crime detection. This nation will always have enraged fathers as long as crime like those the GSK is accused of happens. Countries like France can ban parental genetic testing but it will never eradicate human emotion from the species, the will to procreate also engenders the emotion of love. French is simply not a romantic language any longer, I say we're back to English.

curiousII
08-18-2018, 03:48 PM
DeAngelo charged with another homicide:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/13/report-golden-state-killer-suspect-tied-to-yet-another-murder/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=38&v=v0IE_pxQhdE

Still no comments from Gov. Brown. I'm sorry, but that's really wrong.

curiousII
08-22-2018, 06:44 PM
And even more wrong: All the homicides from every county DeAngelo was charged in are to be consolidated into one single trial in a Sacramento County trial: https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article217060610.html

He can plea bargain all individual counts down to one? He's convicted of one, he's convicted of all? If he's not guilty of one, he's not guilty of all? These are murder charges, not traffic tickets.

There was a effort to let the state's citizens vote on whether to break the state into smaller sections; not there now. They should charge DeAngelo with that, too. His governor did it.

curiousII
08-27-2018, 02:16 AM
Barbara Rae-Venter, the DNA sleuth "...behind the scenes who helped capture the Golden State Killer:" https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/24/exclusive-the-woman-behind-the-scenes-who-helped-capture-the-golden-state-killer/

Interesting story; "Italian heritage and blue eyes." Yep, that's him. Thank goodness I'm DF27, no Italian in my GEDmatch at all. Or my myOrigins, either, so I guess I swiped my blue eyes from elsewhere.

Anyhow, my Promethease report's been there for a couple of months and I haven't been arrested. Nor any of my family members, either, so my family's proven law-abiding. Now, being as Hall is a Border Reiver name, that's interesting, too, as in the US many of these Border descendants seem to have become legitimate and entered law enforcement in one field or another. Skulky past, to say the least, but all appear to have reformed now.

Right, Gail?

curiousII
10-17-2018, 02:50 AM
Not much in the recent media about DeAngelo, I guess Sacramento's being cautious about what they release to the news about him. But there's this now, sort of a development of what's been going on at GEDmatch since all the new rules came into play after DeAngelo: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/06/gedmatch-police-genealogy-database/561695/

curiousII
11-10-2018, 09:12 PM
No needless commentary, just a link: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/genetic-genealogy-tracing-family-trees-to-catch-killers-60-minutes/

At 2:28, speaking about GEDmatch DNA and DeAngelo's arrest: "...led them to the doorstep of one of their own, a retired police officer..."

DeAngelo was a "fired" police officer, not a "retired" one.

The quote is from the video in the link, this is a brief interview with Kroft and Karzis:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ1ZUoAoRPg&list=PLI1yx5Z0Lrv5ZzsYjTYw1lXPvdbOqn2k4

curiousII
01-10-2019, 12:41 PM
DNA cleared DeAngelo of one charge. There hasn't been too much in the news about him lately but after all his trials are over you know we'll be hearing about him for years afterwards.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/dna-clears-accused-golden-state-killer-1975-murder-60255352

DNA testing excluded Joseph DeAngelo as a suspect in the murder of Donna Jo Richmond and — along with other evidence — indicates that another man was rightfully convicted of the slaying, according to a conviction review.

The girl vanished on Dec. 26, 1975 while bicycling from a friend's house to her home near Exeter. Her body was later found in an orange grove. She had been strangled, beaten and stabbed 17 times.

A convicted sex offender, Oscar Clifton, was convicted of kidnapping, attempted rape and murder. He was sentenced to life in prison and died there in 2013.

curiousII
02-02-2019, 07:35 PM
Here it is, Bennett Greenspan gives all Family Tree to the FBI: https://www.forensicmag.com/news/2019/02/family-tree-dna-and-fbi-collaborating-investigations-marking-major-private-genealogy-milestone and https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/dna-fbi-sharing-privacy-database-788304/ and https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/salvadorhernandez/family-tree-dna-fbi-investigative-genealogy-privacy and lots more because it's all over the Web and the FTDNA project forums.

The difference between Greenspan and GEDmatch's GSK is that law enforcement slipped into GEDmatch with chicanery and a fake DNA profile. Bennett Greenspan cheerfully renounced all of our confidence in him, all of our safety, and blabbed to the FBI who we are and who all are unknown, never-met, distant cousins are. Out of how many thousands of customers Family Tree has, how many seriously evil perps will be caught for terrible? And how many will be busted for old parking tickets? Drunk in public?

There's a difference between the two types of intrusions, GEDmatch and Family Tree. Federal Witness Protection (which Greenspan is eligible for and entitled to now): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Federal_Witness_Protection_Program

Bennett's new friends, his federal bodyguards:

28748

Bennett may choose a new name and be issued a new Social Security number now. He can have no contact with his past life, family, or finances if he enters Witness Protection for obvious reasons. Ergo, Family Tree is now potentially without an owner.

Hmmm...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maBv7fzrTVI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIcVXp_iOBs

Silesian
02-02-2019, 07:47 PM
Here it is, Bennett Greenspan gives all Family Tree to the FBI.........
28748

Bennett may choose a new name and be issued a new Social Security number now. He can have no contact with his past life, family, or finances if he enters Witness Protection for obvious reasons. Ergo, Family Tree is now potentially without an owner.............[/video

Does this not have the potential to go both ways? Judges, lawyers, law enforcement,politicians, beauracrats etc.... not providing dna samples, might prove in group bias, and or possible genetic profiling on a verdict -possible to connect crimes and or corruption?

curiousII
02-02-2019, 09:06 PM
Does this not have the potential to go both ways? Judges, lawyers, law enforcement,politicians, beauracrats etc.... not providing dna samples, might prove in group bias, and or possible genetic profiling on a verdict -possible to connect crimes and or corruption?

What? Group bias how? You mean by law enforcement not surrendering their own DNA samples? Or by not requiring DNA by subpoenas when a sample may yield a match? Even when a sample is in a private company's files and not in CODIS? Are all DNA samples to be considered accessible to law enforcement even if they're not originally given to law enforcement? Meaning, now is there to be no difference between a private company's DNA samples (Family Tree, 23andMe, the rest) and the FBI's CODIS records?

Then there could eventually be no need for Family Tree and its ilk at all as we'd just give our spit to whatever law enforcement agency works that part of town we live in as we'd all be legally required to surrender our DNA to the police when we're born (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-biobank-dna-babies-who-has-access/)
or when we reach majority age? Even when we're not arrested or suspected of committing crimes?

That might be a difficult position to take, and one that wouldn't do much to figure out who gets Family Tree after Bennett's entrance into witness protection. We can only hope that the FBI doesn't seize it with some kind of RICO Act allegations:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePzhxMjBBwA

curiousII
05-16-2019, 12:29 PM
Interesting article. No comment.

The Arrest Of A Teen On An Assault Charge Has Sparked New Privacy Fears About DNA Sleuthing

Critics fear we’re on a slippery slope of genetic genealogy being used to investigate less serious crimes. “We’re right here on the precipice, sliding down,” one expert said.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/genetic-genealogy-parabon-gedmatch-assault

Osiris
05-24-2019, 11:02 PM
Hmm, it's all manual now too but both Ancestry.com and MyHeritage have started using submitted family trees on their website to start making pretty good guessing on relationships. It's certainly not too hard to follow that within a decade they can put in the DNA from a sample into a program and it will spit out a list of names of potential suspects. Pull in a couple more data sources like dump the entire 1850 to 1950 census (1950 becomes public record in 3 years) into a computer program and have that build a family network spanning all 50 states, combine that with the family trees willingly submitted by people and it creates a net able to identify or come close to identifying almost anyone.

But maybe a person's opinion is formed by what they were thinking when they put their data out there. I always thought of my putting my data out there as a donation of information to the greater good of genealogy and considered that other people were doing the same. By people making that small donation of data big things can happen, like reuniting my mother with her half sisters, and I have a hard time considering the consequences of those actions as anything other than vastly positive.

curiousII
05-25-2019, 11:54 PM
On Ancestry I found some distant relatives of my ex-wife, who's now deceased. Her mother and her sister-in-law both have their last names spelled differently than I remember them as being, and I viewed her mother's death certificate myself.

I found out after we married some of her family were employed in law enforcement. My daughter told me much later that one of my ex's good friend's husband worked at a youth prison in the north part of the state. No idea how many more of her people were law enforcement in some capacity, but I'm certain that their names are not the same on this ancestry site than they were when I was married.

Pot's legal in California now, it wasn't then. Her friends consumed quite a bit of it. I never would have guessed. But now I don't feel like anyone should have any guesswork in law enforcement intruding into their genetics. A person can enter a protected witness program should his life be in jeopardy. His chromosomes can't.

edit: I'm really not laughing about any of this. The idea of a law enforcement agency raiding someone unsuspecting DNA company client and using his genetics to make arrests, then go home and have a good laugh about it around the living room bong is unconscionable.

30612

curiousII
06-07-2019, 11:09 PM
Recent email from GEDmatch:

As you may know, we at GEDmatch recently instituted a change of policy regarding law enforcement (LE) use of our site. We now require specific approval from each user who wishes to have their information available for LE use. If permission is not given there is no change in user ability to use GEDmatch for genealogical purposes. We have also redefined the definition of violent crimes in our Terms of Service to better fit the national standard established by the FBI. This email will bring you up to date on these changes.

Most importantly, we wish to make it clear that we strongly support law enforcement. The use of genetic genealogy for providing leads in violent crimes has been called the “Biggest crime-fighting breakthrough in decades” Its incredible success to date has been due almost entirely to the GEDmatch database. We encourage users who approve of LE use to “opt-in” (make their information available for use in catching violent criminals). Those who opt-in may never know if their information has been used to catch a murderer, rapist or otherwise dangerous person. One reason police do not contact users whose information might be used to solve cases is that it runs the risk of alerting a potential suspect. It is also important to note that LE does not have any special access to GEDmatch. They simply use the system and its features in the exact same manner as any member of the public but are limited to seeing only matches with opted-in kits.

There may be some users of GEDmatch who do not wish to make their information available to LE. These persons do not need to take any action; their previously uploaded kits are automatically “opted-out.” They can use GEDmatch as they always have and their information remains invisible to LE.

It is important to understand the role played by genetic genealogy in solving cases. Genetic genealogy does NOT identify suspects. It points to a complicated process involving many people, that if successful will result in identifying persons of interest. Most cases that do not go cold start with persons of interest. Genetic genealogy simply puts police in the position most cases start; it provides a person or persons of interest where none existed previously. Once LE has a person of interest it is up to them to use traditional investigative techniques to identify and arrest a suspect.

We have clarified our definition of violent crimes because the original definition was not consistent with the definition in general use by the FBI and others. We learned this when a 71 year old church organist was attacked and apparently left for dead as she practiced alone in church. There was no known motive for the attack other than possibly the thrill of doing it. There are those who felt that this did not fit our definition of a violent crime.

We changed our Terms to require an affirmative action by the kit owner to allow information to be visible to LE because we believe it is the right thing to do. Because there are those who do not wish to have their information used for LE purposes, we believe the ethically responsible position is to require users to specifically agree to the LE use of their data. This was a very difficult decision to make because of the temporary immediate impact it will have.

We are concerned about the handicap our actions have placed on solving cold cases. There are millions of victims, including family and friends of violent crime victims and unidentified remains who need some sense of closure. We have a fast start to rebuilding the LE portion of the GEDmatch database. We encourage everyone who has had a genetic DNA test done to consider helping to build the database for law enforcement use as quickly as possible.

The GEDmatch Management

curiousII
07-02-2019, 05:49 PM
GEDmatch catches another Sacramento rapist cop:

Serial rape suspect linked to decades-old crimes through genealogy, DNA, officials say
Mark Manteuffel, 59, was arrested in a series of crimes that occurred in the Sacramento area between 1992 and 1994.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/serial-rape-suspect-linked-decades-old-crimes-through-genealogy-dna-n1025551

curiousII
08-18-2019, 01:04 PM
A woman woke up to a stranger assaulting her in 1983. A DNA match finally led to an arrest

DNA is cracking cold cases

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/18/us/coral-springs-cold-case-rape-dna-arrest/index.html

curiousII
09-23-2019, 12:15 AM
Another cold case DNA arrest:
DNA leads to arrest of 2 in man's 1983 Oklahoma cold case murder in motel room https://www.foxnews.com/us/dna-arrest-oklahoma-cold-case-murder-motel

Not much in the news about Eastside, the police must be handling it very cautiously so as not to damage their case by too much publicity. This is a couple months old now:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/24/us/golden-state-killer-one-year-later/index.html

They can't take too long or DeAngelo will die of old age, or take the Epstein way out. Epstein's alleged victims really got upset over that one. Odd taste in art, too:

33362

curiousII
09-28-2019, 09:34 PM
Feds release policy for using DNA kits to solve crimes

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/feds-release-policy-for-using-dna-kits-to-solve-crimes/vi-AAHWZTE

curiousII
10-05-2019, 07:37 AM
Pretty good article from a few months ago, Parabon NanoLabs and GEDmatch:

'I wasn't sure we would ever find out': How DNA, genetic genealogy made 2018 the year to crack cold cases

https://abcnews.go.com/US/find-dna-genetic-genealogy-made-2018-year-crack/story?id=59367684

curiousII
11-17-2019, 02:23 AM
Interesting video which won't post here for some reason, the link goes to CBS 48 Hours which is a SFW site (not being argumentative, just a comment).

There's a few things in here that's pivotal to consumer trust with genetic testing sites. And, the entire concept of having an unknown, crazed criminal relative that gets busted by your GEDmatch or Ancestry upload and knowing he's counting the days until he gets out of prison to come find you can either give you sleepless nights or send you to your liquor cabinet far more than usual.

Or not. Angie Dodge:


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/angie-dodge-murder-how-a-discarded-cigarette-led-to-an-arrest-in-idaho-falls-teens-cold-case/

curiousII
12-18-2019, 11:02 PM
Got this in my inbox from GEDmatch, seems that website's been sold.

GEDMatch Message from Curtis Rogers

To GEDmatch users,

As you may know, on December 9 we shared the news that GEDmatch has been purchased by Verogen, Inc., a forensic genomics company whose focus is human ID. This sale took place only because I know it is a big step forward for GEDmatch, its users, and the genetic genealogical community. Since the announcement, there has been speculation about a number of things, much of it unfounded.

There has been concern that law enforcement will have greater access to GEDmatch user information. The opposite is true. Verogen has firmly and repeatedly stated that it will fight all unauthorized law enforcement use and any warrants that may be issued. This is a stronger position than GEDmatch was previously able to implement.

There has been concern that Verogen will eliminate GEDmatch free tools and raise Tier 1 rates. In fact, Verogen has made it clear that the free tools will remain, and there are no immediate plans to raise Tier 1 rates.

It has been reported on social media that there is a mass exodus of kits from the GEDmatch database. There has been a temporary drop in the database size only because privacy policies in place in the various countries where our users reside require citizens to specifically approve the transfer of their data to Verogen. As users grant permission, that data will again be visible on the site. We are proactively reaching out to these users to encourage them to consent to the transfer.

The sale to Verogen will be a tremendous benefit to genealogists. Verogen has pledged to continue the GEDmatch philosophy of providing free services. It recognizes that all information belongs to the users who have placed it on GEDmatch, that this information may be removed by the users at any time, and that strong privacy protections need to be in place. It is to Verogen's advantage to build the consumer database, meaning more and better matches for users. Verogen recognizes that law enforcement use of genetic genealogy is here to stay and is in a better position to prevent abuses and protect privacy than GEDmatch ever could have done on its own.

Bottom line: I am thrilled that the ideal company has purchased GEDmatch. The baby I created will now mature for the benefit of all involved. If anyone has any doubts, I may be reached at [email protected] I will do my best to personally respond to all concerns.

Curtis Rogers
GEDmatch

(108195)

curiousII
06-05-2020, 11:48 AM
This article says EAR's trial was supposed to have started last month, but I haven't read anything about it yet.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article239358223.html

Personally I think EAR should demand a change of venue. Sacramento's the state capitol and EAR made the news nearly every day back then. Sacramento judges aren't too impartial, sorry but it's true. I'm sure there's not a single one of them in that town who didn't read EAR news back when they were in high school.

However this plays out, EAR and GEDmatch sure popped the cork out of that bottle.

curiousII
06-15-2020, 02:21 AM
So, anyway, while we're all waiting to read the court files about EAR and genetic detectives, here's another name that was in California news back then for similar crime or crimes. And, for anyone who's taken haplogroup tests at Family Tree or, maybe, YSEQ, it's a name that we've all used when we try to talk about our tests like we understand them or know what we're talking about.

Lawrence Singleton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Singleton

He died in a Florida prison but in California he perpetrated a crime so heinous his name is still remembered decades later. A quick Google showed that singleton shows up in science in a few places, surprising.

In genetics we all know about singleton snps: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18197193/ and a newer article from 2017: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2017.00139/full

So the point I was going to make is weakened now due to the use of "singleton" in many settings in science. Shows you how much I know about that, but when I first saw that word used at Family Tree I was really surprised that no one had made comment about it or asked that the word be replaced with something else. That was years before EAR's arrest with GEDmatch aid, and Singleton the rapist was caught without DNA evidence as it was a pretty long time before all that came about.

But now, whilst the world is waiting with bated breath for news about De Angelo (or however his name's spelled), one may wonder if the science world may want to better vett its source of names and terms for its discoveries. Why, look at this one, the "singleton pattern:" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singleton_pattern

It's even got "gang of four:" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_Patterns

I must be an old person now, I remember this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Four#:~:text=The%20Gang%20of%20Four%20(sim plified,a%20series%20of%20treasonous%20crimes.

When we try to talk smart we speak of crime!

curiousII
06-28-2020, 01:00 AM
There's an HBO show on tomorrow about the EAR crimes: https://www.abc10.com/article/news/crime/hbo-golden-state-killer-documentary-to-focus-on-survivors/103-669e9fed-1842-434e-86b9-ddeb2a118de1

curiousII
06-30-2020, 05:33 AM
All done, DeAngelo has made his plea:

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/golden-state-killer-court-june-2020/index.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yScwhGqMUE

All done, hopefully it brings some semblance of closures to the victims and their survivors.

It's going to be interesting reading when all the evidence gets publicized. Those who know more about how a genetic testing company's business works than I will post some opinions and guidelines for us amateurs to be aware of now when we place our orders.

Really odd how a terrible tragedy and crime could affect something so far removed, so distant, from that element as a business like genetics is, but I guess that's how law, science, and government all work together. One massive Gordian knot.

38201

curiousII
07-22-2020, 10:26 PM
And now GEDmatch is entirely offline. The're sending this email out when you try to log into their site. Cause-and-effect with DeAngelo, someone better versed in all this can try that one...

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21182-GEDmatch-Down-and-Out&p=687608#post687608

Dear GEDmatch member,

On the morning of July 19, GEDmatch experienced a security breach orchestrated through a sophisticated attack on one of our servers via an existing user account. We became aware of the situation a short time later and immediately took the site down. As a result of this breach, all user permissions were reset, making all profiles visible to all users. This was the case for approximately 3 hours. During this time, users who did not opt-in for law enforcement matching were available for law enforcement matching, and, conversely, all law enforcement profiles were made visible to GEDmatch users.

On Monday, July 20, as we continued to investigate the incident and work on a permanent solution to safeguard against threats of this nature, we discovered that the site was still vulnerable and made the decision to take the site down until such time that we can be absolutely sure that user data is protected against potential attacks. It was later confirmed that GEDmatch was the target of a second breach in which all user permissions were set to opt-out of law enforcement matching.

We can assure you that your DNA information was not compromised, as GEDmatch does not store raw DNA files on the site. When you upload your data, the information is encoded, and the raw file deleted. This is one of the ways we protect our users’ most sensitive information.

Further, we are working with a leading cybersecurity firm to conduct a comprehensive forensic review and help us implement the best possible security measures. We expect the site will be up within the next day or two.

We have reported the unauthorized access to the appropriate authorities and continue to work toward identifying the individuals responsible for this criminal act.

Today, we were informed that MyHeritage customers who are also GEDmatch users were the target of a phishing scam. Please remember to exercise caution when opening emails and clicking links. Never provide sensitive information via email. If an email seems suspicious, contact the company in question directly through the phone number or email address listed on their website, not via a reply to the suspicious email. You can reach GEDmatch at [email protected] or (858) 285-4101. At this time, we have no evidence to suggest the phishing scam is a result of the GEDmatch security breach this week. We are continuing to investigate the incident.

Please be assured that we take these matters very seriously. Our Number 1 responsibility is to protect the data of our users. We know we have not lived up to this responsibility this week, and we are working hard to regain your trust. We apologize for the concern and frustration this situation has caused.

Sincerely,

Brett Williams
CEO, Verogen Inc.

curiousII
08-19-2020, 12:02 AM
Guess this is all winding down now.

Victims of Golden State Killer line up to call him 'subhuman', 'monster' during emotional day in court

https://www.foxnews.com/us/golden-state-killer-victims-subhuman-monster

curiousII
08-22-2020, 11:41 PM
All done, DeAngelo gets life:

Golden State Killer Joseph DeAngelo sentenced to life in prison

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/21/us/golden-state-killer-sentencing/index.html

Personally, I'm wondering just how much effect this will have on commercial genetic testing companies. The tactics law enforcement used with GEDmatch to catch DeAngelo was very efficient and effective and we read about more cold case arrests via perp DNA each day in the news. But once all the effort that law enforcement used is displayed post-sentencing by movies and documentaries, who knows what else it'll show. Possibly endangering who knows how many innocent lives, the unsuspecting customers of the DNA companies, by using their genetics to track down and arrest their unknown, abandoned, and adopted Uncle Cecil for a string of violent crimes 42 years ago is an ethical and moral dilemma that someone somewhere is going tto have to figure out eventually. If that type of crime is genetic, if the propensity to enact some form of misbehavior and social disharmony can be passed down from one generation to the next, then Uncle Cecil just got his whole family busted. Not being facious at all; maybe the signature of a serial criminal is in a chromosome somewhere, in a position that Promethease can uncover for the general public. And if the common customer can find it along with his blue/brown/green eyes and gummy ear wax on Prometheus, everyone else can and here comes the lynch mob running down the street in Uncle Cecil's cousin-cousin-cousin three times removed's front yard.

Time to get CRISPR off the closet shelf and start modifying those genes before the crowd shows up...