PDA

View Full Version : K14 Ancient Cultures Calculator - Gene Plaza



Kurd
05-07-2018, 02:34 AM
I'm posting the K14 PCA here, because it would get buried in the Autosomal section. Shown are the 2 dimensions of maximum variation. Keep in mind distances will differ between samples with PC3/PC4. The eigenvalues and eigenvectors were calculated using raw SNP data and not ADMIXTURE results . I was not able to add Africans because the resolution would become poor and Eurasian samples would get too cluttered.

https://i.imgur.com/NCRwMQi.jpg

Huck Finn
05-07-2018, 05:20 AM
Kurd, I saw that some Finns have also taken the test, at least Nikiforov and his wife. Unluckily they are not in the PCA, but what kind of biases would you say Finns have, according to the calculator?

jortita
05-07-2018, 06:39 AM
Can you kindly also include me in the PCA, thank you

Kurd
05-07-2018, 04:55 PM
The K14 PCA shown with Dluffy, Sapporo, Reza, Punjabi-Rajput, and a couple of public Finns added. Punjabi is McNinja

@ Jortita, I don't have V3/V4 data for you.

Edit: Since the E Asian and ASI vectors have the same direction in PC1/PC2, a pull towards the SW is not informative to ASI vs E Asian, in other words either or will pull in that direction . So a SE pull is the result of cumulative ASI + E Asia.

ASI-EAsian vectors get split in PC3/PC4


https://i.imgur.com/VCeVQFK.jpg

jesus
05-07-2018, 05:09 PM
The K14 PCA shown with Dluffy, Sapporo, Reza, Punjabi-Rajput, and a couple of public Finns added. Punjabi is McNinja

@ Jortita, I don't have V3/V4 data for you.

Edit: Since the E Asian and ASI vectors have the same direction in PC1/PC2, a pull towards the SW is not informative to ASI vs E Asian, in other words either or will pull in that direction . So a SE pull is the result of cumulative ASI + E Asia.

ASI-EAsian vectors get split in PC3/PC4


https://i.imgur.com/VCeVQFK.jpg

Interesting. the closest modern groups to turan C are Kurds and Iranians.

Kurd
05-07-2018, 05:44 PM
Interesting. the closest modern groups to turan C are Kurds and Iranians.Yes, clearly genetically closest to Turan C, thus indicating Iranians/Kurds having the most contribution (forgot to plot Haji-Firuz. My guess is Haji-Firuz less relevant than Turan)

Interestingly, Kurds/Iranians fall on a MLBA-Turan cline, whereas S Asians on a Siberian-HG- IVC cline. There are other clines of course also , for ex Kura-Araxes- IVC for Kurds/ Iranians, and IVC-ASI/E Asian for some S Asians.

If you gaze at it you can see other clines as well

ms85
05-07-2018, 06:03 PM
Which one is Turan_C here?

https://s31.postimg.cc/dtfjegga3/yamna-steppe-emba-mlba-cloud.png


23032

Huck Finn
05-07-2018, 06:24 PM
The K14 PCA shown with Dluffy, Sapporo, Reza, Punjabi-Rajput, and a couple of public Finns added.
Very interesting, thank you. It seems that these public Finns either overlap MLBA_East or are very close to that group, being even more biased towards WSHG. Would you agree?

ms85
05-07-2018, 06:36 PM
Yes, clearly genetically closest to Turan C, thus indicating Iranians/Kurds having the most contribution (forgot to plot Haji-Firuz. My guess is Haji-Firuz less relevant than Turan)

Interestingly, Kurds/Iranians fall on a MLBA-Turan cline, whereas S Asians on a Siberian-HG- IVC cline. There are other clines of course also , for ex Kura-Araxes- IVC for Kurds/ Iranians, and IVC-ASI/E Asian for some S Asians.

If you gaze at it you can see other clines as wellMLBA-Turan is BMAC right? I don't agree with you. As you can see:

1: Haji-Firuz_C = Iranian Farmers + Anatolian farmers (50/50) = proto-(West-)Iranians
2: Turan_C = Haji-Firuz_C + some West Siberian HG = proto-East Iranians
3: BMAC = Turan_C + AASI = East Iranians


I think Kurds as Northwest Iranians would still match the closest with proto-(West-)Iranian Haji-Firuz_C. Although, Kurds have some East Iranian ancestry, and since East Iranians derived/evolved from the West Iranians (proto-Iranians) it looks like Kurds evolved from Turan_C or BMAC. But it is actually the other way around. Ancient East Iranians were basically West Iranians + some local Central Asian auDNA (West Siberian HG + AASI).


https://s31.postimg.cc/5f4i4cwzf/yamna-migrations-indo-iranian.png

Kurd
05-07-2018, 06:42 PM
Which one is Turan_C here?








Tepe_Anau_EN
I4085


Tepe_Anau_EN
I4086


Tepe_Anau_EN
I4087


Tepe_Hissar_C
I2923


Tepe_Hissar_C
I2924


Tepe_Hissar_C
I2513


Tepe_Hissar_C
I2925


Tepe_Hissar_C
I2514


Parkhai_EBA
I6671


Parkhai_EN
I4259


Parkhai_EN
I6669


Parkhai_EN
I4634


Parkhai_EN
I4635


Parkhai_LBA
I6668


Parkhai_MBA
I6674

Kurd
05-07-2018, 06:43 PM
Very interesting, thank you. It seems that these public Finns either overlap MLBA_East or are very close to that group, being even more biased towards WSHG. Would you agree?

yes I do. Although, on PC3/PC4 SC Asians and S Asians are closer to them. But overall adding PC1-PC4, the Finns are.

ms85
05-07-2018, 06:54 PM
Tepe_Anau_EN
I4085


Tepe_Anau_EN
I4086


Tepe_Anau_EN
I4087


Tepe_Hissar_C
I2923


Tepe_Hissar_C
I2924


Tepe_Hissar_C
I2513


Tepe_Hissar_C
I2925


Tepe_Hissar_C
I2514


Parkhai_EBA
I6671


Parkhai_EN
I4259


Parkhai_EN
I6669


Parkhai_EN
I4634


Parkhai_EN
I4635


Parkhai_LBA
I6668


Parkhai_MBA
I6674

Thanks! But Tepe_Hissar is not 'Turan'. It is on the Southeast of the Caspian Sea / North Central Iranian Plateau.


It was on the Aryan trade route between Mesopotamia and Far East.


" It was occupied continuously from the mid-5th through to the 2nd millennium B.C., at which time its economic importance in antiquity derived from the fact it lay on a major trade route–the Great Khorasan Road–which connected Mesopotamia to the Far East. "


https://s31.postimg.cc/a3khzfbuj/naamloos.png

http://avirtualmuseum.org/publications/mesopotamian_metals/hissar/hissar_index.html

Kurd
05-07-2018, 07:18 PM
MLBA-Turan is BMAC right? I don't agree with you. As you can see:

1: Haji-Firuz_C = Iranian Farmers + Anatolian farmers (50/50) = proto-(West-)Iranians
2: Turan_C = Haji-Firuz_C + some West Siberian HG = proto-East Iranians
3: BMAC = Turan_C + AASI = East Iranians


I think Kurds as Northwest Iranians would still match the closest with proto-(West-)Iranian Haji-Firuz_C. Although, Kurds have some East Iranian ancestry, and since East Iranians derived/evolved from the West Iranians (proto-Iranians) it looks like Kurds evolved from Turan_C or BMAC. But it is actually the other way around. Ancient East Iranians were basically West Iranians + some local Central Asian auDNA (West Siberian HG + AASI).


https://s31.postimg.cc/5f4i4cwzf/yamna-migrations-indo-iranian.png

I will not contest what you say because it's nearly impossible to determine direction of geneflow with great precision, and your scenario also makes sense, and I agree with you it could be the greater overall genetic similarity between Kurds and Turan-C vs Kurds and Haji Firuz Chl that makes it seem that way.

I just plotted a PCA with the highest coverage Haji Firuz Chl and BA samples. On the PCA Kurds are on a Haji-Firuz - Scythian and Haji Firuz - IVC cline, alternatively, they are on a Turan - MLBA cline. Overall, they are almost equidistant from Turan and Haji Firuz Chl.

To summarize, Kurds have more AASI/IVC/E Asian and Steppe than those ancients (Haji Firuz BA excluded wrt to steppe).

Edit:

PCA with Haji-Firuz samples added


https://i.imgur.com/gwO4PEh.jpg

Kurd
05-07-2018, 07:44 PM
Thanks! But Tepe_Hissar is not 'Turan'. It is on the Southeast of the Caspian Sea / North Central Iranian Plateau.


It was on the Aryan trade route between Mesopotamia and Far East.


" It was occupied continuously from the mid-5th through to the 2nd millennium B.C., at which time its economic importance in antiquity derived from the fact it lay on a major trade route–the Great Khorasan Road–which connected Mesopotamia to the Far East. "




Historical accounts vary on the geographical extent of Turan. The paper refers to them as Iran/Turan in the spreadsheet. As you can see Tepe Hissar genetically clusters with the rest of the Turan samples on the PCA

jortita
05-08-2018, 02:12 AM
The K14 PCA shown with Dluffy, Sapporo, Reza, Punjabi-Rajput, and a couple of public Finns added. Punjabi is McNinja

@ Jortita, I don't have V3/V4 data for you.

Edit: Since the E Asian and ASI vectors have the same direction in PC1/PC2, a pull towards the SW is not informative to ASI vs E Asian, in other words either or will pull in that direction . So a SE pull is the result of cumulative ASI + E Asia.

ASI-EAsian vectors get split in PC3/PC4


https://i.imgur.com/VCeVQFK.jpg

Thanks Kurd, I have not tested with 23andMe so will not be able to provide you with my data

Censored
05-09-2018, 07:02 AM
Where can we post our results?