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View Full Version : Italian/Greek, Eastern Europe/Balkan categories in My Heritage



digital_noise
05-19-2018, 05:11 PM
I know this was briefly touched upon in the My Heritage results thread by Sikeliot, who came through with a ton of Sicilian examples, but I was hoping to reignite the discussion, or at the very least help satisfy some of my personal questions regarding the subject.

I show 30% Southern Europe, in various uploads (some multiple times) the bulk % stays the same but the Italian/Greek fluctuates. I also get an Eastern Europe component that I cannot figure out. This data comes from my Calabrese dna on my paternal side, in a town originally settled by Greeks. My haplogroup has Balkan origins (E-V13 based) and I have zero heritage that I can locate in any of the countries that fall under their Eastern European category.

I got my dads sisters raw data and uploaded it to My Heritage and got interesting results. Im not so concerned with the South Europe component (she shows higher Italian, almost no Greek) as I am the Eastern Europe one. She shows 25% Balkan and 1.2% East Euro, where i show 11.7% East Europe. Could these be the same, just that their algorithm is having trouble sorting out the data due to me having less of it so it just lumps it into a generalized East Euro category?



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Sikeliot
05-19-2018, 05:35 PM
I would not take the categories literally. "East European" on there does take into account Slavic people from further north as well as Balkan peoples (though they separate Albanians and Greeks), so your East European could be reflective of Greek ancestry. However, I would be more inclined to believe you score it due to poor component labeling.

Greeks score some Eastern European themselves, but it is unlikely that a Calabrese would score it for the following reasons:

A. Greek ancestry in Calabria would have come mostly from Anatolia and the Aegean islands (Ionian Greeks) and not Doric Greeks, and it would be the latter who would have had more Steppe ancestry. Aegean islanders are genetically similar to southern Italians to begin with.

B. Much of the East European input in Greece came from the Dorians, the Slavs, and other migrations down the Balkans, but none of these would have reached Calabria.

C. Calabria shares very limited to no IBD sharing with mainland Greece or Albania, which signifies that the population was mostly Hellenized and Italianized natives, and were not of Indo-European ancestry rather than transplanted Italic and Greek people. Surely there is Greek ancestry in Calabria but it does not make up the majority and it does not account for your East European unless you have recent Greek ancestry.

D. You could have ancestry from Apulia or southeast Sicily, two regions that did see substantial migration from the Doric parts of Greece and, compared to regions of southern Italy like NE Sicily or Calabria which have remained genetically isolated from foreign influence, have higher Steppe input than the southern Italian norm.

E. MyHeritage is very inconsistent between siblings and even between uploads of the same person. It is a good guide, but do not take the categories literally. I uploaded my mother's results twice and the percentages changed significantly; between me and her I do not score how I should given that I am her child.

digital_noise
05-19-2018, 05:55 PM
the thing is, I get an 11% Eastern Europe across many calculators or places who take uploads. Gencove, DNA Tribes, DNALand. Ansestry shows 6% Eastern Europe, 23 and Me even less but my results from both of those places are not very accurate according to my paper trail. I dont really trust DNA.Land and Gencove is ok for some backgrounds and rubbish for others.

My main question is where the heck is this coming from? And at 11% thats either DNA thats carried through the years due to inter-marriage within a select community or its a great great grandparent who was full blooded something and its been bred down to 11% with me. The only logical starting point that I can think of is its either like you said, input from another area although this would have to be ancient as my dads family was in Ciminŗ and married people from Ciminŗ for hundreds of years. Or is a mislabeled category for me but thats would be mislabeled across multiple platforms...

vettor
05-30-2018, 07:04 PM
I have to admit that the bulk of my matches in which I have checked and confirmed are from MyHeritage .............I have another match ( a distant relative ) from a wedding in 1945 with a Benetton .......

about 70% of my confirmed matches have now been through MyHeritage

digital_noise
05-30-2018, 07:28 PM
Im still wondering about the Eastern European thing, if anyone has any idea's or experience...

That said, a lot of my matches on My Heritage that are clearly Italians have a high Greek % and many have a lot of Eastern Euro/Balkan. Some have no Italian and are all Balkan, but an Italian surname...go figure.

Sizzles
05-30-2018, 08:45 PM
43.4% north and west european
31.3 % southern european
Italian
20.1% east european
Balkan 15.2%
East euro 4.9%
5.2% other
West Asian 4.4%
Middle east 0.8%
Much of my italian is sicilian, however gedmatch picks up on greek too. I do have Balkan. Dont think this helps you but FYI anyways

digital_noise
05-30-2018, 08:57 PM
so your Balkan is Croatian, correct (basing this on your flags)?

Sizzles
05-30-2018, 09:12 PM
so your Balkan is Croatian, correct (basing this on your flags)?

Yes Croatia and some Slovenia however as i mentioned gedmatch does match me with greek populations on some calculators. Probably doesnt help you

digital_noise
05-30-2018, 09:17 PM
got it, missed the edit. Thanks

Markos
07-06-2018, 05:33 PM
Let me know if you figure this out

digital_noise
07-06-2018, 06:14 PM
Im still at a loss unfortunately. I have no idea where this Eastern European could be coming from. I get it across virtualy all testing platforms and transfers except 23 and me. The rest have me anywhere between 4 and 14%

here's one of my distant cousins on My Heritage that lives in Argentina. He shows 7% Balkan (he's on the right)

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wombatofthenorth
07-10-2018, 04:44 AM
I know this was briefly touched upon in the My Heritage results thread by Sikeliot, who came through with a ton of Sicilian examples, but I was hoping to reignite the discussion, or at the very least help satisfy some of my personal questions regarding the subject.

I show 30% Southern Europe, in various uploads (some multiple times) the bulk % stays the same but the Italian/Greek fluctuates. I also get an Eastern Europe component that I cannot figure out. This data comes from my Calabrese dna on my paternal side, in a town originally settled by Greeks. My haplogroup has Balkan origins (E-V13 based) and I have zero heritage that I can locate in any of the countries that fall under their Eastern European category.

I got my dads sisters raw data and uploaded it to My Heritage and got interesting results. Im not so concerned with the South Europe component (she shows higher Italian, almost no Greek) as I am the Eastern Europe one. She shows 25% Balkan and 1.2% East Euro, where i show 11.7% East Europe. Could these be the same, just that their algorithm is having trouble sorting out the data due to me having less of it so it just lumps it into a generalized East Euro category?



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If you have ancestry from Northeastern Italy, some people there actually have Slavic Balkan backgrounds and erased their past for safety (same went for others in the opposite direction at times too). So that could be one explanation. Another is that Balkan and Italian can sometimes be hard to tell apart for some tests, especially without phasing.

wombatofthenorth
07-10-2018, 04:46 AM
the thing is, I get an 11% Eastern Europe across many calculators or places who take uploads. Gencove, DNA Tribes, DNALand. Ansestry shows 6% Eastern Europe, 23 and Me even less but my results from both of those places are not very accurate according to my paper trail. I dont really trust DNA.Land and Gencove is ok for some backgrounds and rubbish for others.

My main question is where the heck is this coming from? And at 11% thats either DNA thats carried through the years due to inter-marriage within a select community or its a great great grandparent who was full blooded something and its been bred down to 11% with me. The only logical starting point that I can think of is its either like you said, input from another area although this would have to be ancient as my dads family was in Ciminŗ and married people from Ciminŗ for hundreds of years. Or is a mislabeled category for me but thats would be mislabeled across multiple platforms...

what are your scores (and all dots) from 23?

do you have any matches on 23 that seem to be mostly Balkan or Eastern European?

digital_noise
07-10-2018, 07:49 PM
The only dots I get on 23 and me are English and Italian.
I ill check on the Eastern Euro aspect

digital_noise
07-13-2018, 06:34 PM
well, i figured out the eastern Europe thing. Turns out my great grandfathers mom wasnt who I thought it was. I had overlooked a date of death and his dads second wife (who was his mom) was French Canadian but had Hungarian ancestry. So while MyHeritage gives my about 11%, I think the reality is closer to what Ancestry DNA gives which is about 4%, but many other places score it higher than Ancestry, so who knows...

JerryS.
07-13-2018, 07:24 PM
well, i figured out the eastern Europe thing. Turns out my great grandfathers mom wasnt who I thought it was. I had overlooked a date of death and his dads second wife (who was his mom) was French Canadian but had Hungarian ancestry. So while MyHeritage gives my about 11%, I think the reality is closer to what Ancestry DNA gives which is about 4%, but many other places score it higher than Ancestry, so who knows...

you said your Calabrese comes from a town settle by Greeks... would that be Crotone (KR)? or something in the immediate vicinity?

digital_noise
07-13-2018, 11:00 PM
No they all lived in Ciminŗ, with relations in Antonimina, Cirellŗ and Platž.

Sikeliot
07-13-2018, 11:06 PM
In my experience with Italians, Albanians, and Greeks, now that I have seen more results, the Italian and Greek categories are clearly separate and not interchangeable.

"Greek" seems to represent a more indigenous southern Balkan strain, while "Balkan" represents a more Slavic-mixed one. "Greek" seems to peak in Albanians, and in the less Slavic parts of Greece.

A large part of the Sicilian and southern Italian population will score more Greek than Italian, because the Greek settlers in large part displaced the native Italic populations, but not completely -- Italian will still be scored. On the other hand, despite their genetic closeness to south Italians, I have not seen Aegean islanders or Cypriots scoring much Italian.

All Sicilians, south Italians, and Aegean islanders, in addition to their "Italian" and "Greek" will score significant (in my experience anywhere from 20-40%) combined Middle East, North African, West Asian, and Jewish. Inland Sicily and Palermo is better modeled with Italian + Jewish/MENA rather than Greek.

Mainland Greeks I have seen score Greek and Balkan both, because the "Greek" component is not capturing their Slavic ancestry and seems to be more indigenous Balkan, so their Slavic gets captured under "Balkan."

Aspar
07-14-2018, 12:04 AM
In my experience with Italians, Albanians, and Greeks, now that I have seen more results, the Italian and Greek categories are clearly separate and not interchangeable.

"Greek" seems to represent a more indigenous southern Balkan strain, while "Balkan" represents a more Slavic-mixed one. "Greek" seems to peak in Albanians, and in the less Slavic parts of Greece.

A large part of the Sicilian and southern Italian population will score more Greek than Italian, because the Greek settlers in large part displaced the native Italic populations, but not completely -- Italian will still be scored. On the other hand, despite their genetic closeness to south Italians, I have not seen Aegean islanders or Cypriots scoring much Italian.

All Sicilians, south Italians, and Aegean islanders, in addition to their "Italian" and "Greek" will score significant (in my experience anywhere from 20-40%) combined Middle East, North African, West Asian, and Jewish. Inland Sicily and Palermo is better modeled with Italian + Jewish/MENA rather than Greek.

Mainland Greeks I have seen score Greek and Balkan both, because the "Greek" component is not capturing their Slavic ancestry and seems to be more indigenous Balkan, so their Slavic gets captured under "Balkan."

Sorry but My Heritage as a company is totally clueless when it comes to identifying and naming some groups of people.
I have nothing to do with the Italians, and I don't have any Italian ancestry and yet, they've given me 21.1 percent of Italian ancestry???
That's ridiculous tbh.
And why is this so called 'Greek' cluster named as Greek in the first place when many Albanians score more Greek than some Greeks do?
That's simply unprofessional from this company!
And no, this so called 'Greek' cluster IS capturing the Slavic input and that's why it is identified as Greek.
What I think about the laughable 'Italian' ancestry of mine is that, this company probably was confused because I score higher than average 'North Sea' and many companies who have analysed my raw DNA data, have given me some Scandinavian ancestry, with the lowest been on FTDNA's My Origin, which is giving me only 2 percent of Scandinavian.
Probably, South Euro plus some Scandinavian is identified as Italian in this clueless company, while South Euro plus East Euro is identified as Greek!

digital_noise
07-14-2018, 12:18 AM
That sounds reasonable, so why dont other testing companies apply that?

One of my Aunt's matches gets 38% Greek, 26% Sardinian and 5% Iberian. 0% Italian. 20% Sephardic and like 4% West Asian and 1,8% Middle east. Others are less complicated.

Sikeliot
07-14-2018, 12:27 AM
That sounds reasonable, so why dont other testing companies apply that?

One of my Aunt's matches gets 38% Greek, 26% Sardinian and 5% Iberian. 0% Italian. 20% Sephardic and like 4% West Asian and 1,8% Middle east. Others are less complicated.

Where is this match from?

digital_noise
07-14-2018, 01:06 AM
Reggio Calabria area, although she does have Sardinian relatives

digital_noise
07-14-2018, 01:16 AM
Then theres this guy from Campania (on right)
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digital_noise
07-14-2018, 01:26 AM
And this guy from Platž

52.1% Greek
10% sardinian
5.6% Iberian
15% Middle east
14% North African
1.6% West Asian

I suspect MyHeritage West Asian/Mid East and North African have some overlap unless its clearly something that stands out

Sikeliot
07-14-2018, 03:13 AM
And this guy from Platž

52.1% Greek
10% sardinian
5.6% Iberian
15% Middle east
14% North African
1.6% West Asian

I suspect MyHeritage West Asian/Mid East and North African have some overlap unless its clearly something that stands out


Are the southern Calabrese not Italic at all? It is starting to look like the indigenous Italic element of Calabria and Sicily has become so diluted.

digital_noise
07-14-2018, 04:05 AM
According to My Heritage, no doesnt look like it. Here's another. The screen shot got cut off, but the west Asian is 10.8% Mizrahi Iran/Iraq and 8.1% West Asian
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msmarjoribanks
07-14-2018, 11:50 AM
I would be skeptical of anything based mostly on MyHeritage. Their results are a little odd in ways that for some doesn't seem backed up by other tests (and some of the Greek results fall in that category).

digital_noise
07-14-2018, 03:50 PM
To be fair one should be skeptical about every test as they are not 100% yet.

But Iím not sure I can agree yet as the data has shown across many many plots, comparisons and whatnot that southern italian and Greek are very very close, with some exceptions based on location. As far as how My Heritage labels these components, I agree it might be confusing and I havenít figured out their methods quite yet.

emc
07-14-2018, 04:30 PM
I got really disappointed with MyHeritage, especially because they are the company I bought my tests from.
My maternal grandmother had 4 Italian grandparents, but MH says she's only 15.2% Italian.
My father, on the other hand, is mostly Italian, with one Portuguese great-grandfather, and he is not only "more Italian" than her but also has some weird East European and English %.

(I'm sorry my results are in Portuguese, but I guess you can figure it out).2463724638

digital_noise
07-14-2018, 04:45 PM
I understand the disappointment, or in most cases the confusion brought on by the unexpected. However, the results they provide are based on something that they feel confident enough sticking a label to. I suspect itís sonething along the lines of how the eurogenes K36 has an Italian category, yet is more Ancient Greek related than actual Italian. It certainly would help if they provided an explanation. I can only imagine how some Nonnaís react when they see they are 30% middle eastern and 0% Italian

emc
07-14-2018, 04:48 PM
I understand the disappointment, or in most cases the confusion brought on by the unexpected. However, the results they provide are based on something that they feel confident enough sticking a label to. I suspect it’s sonething along the lines of how the eurogenes K36 has an Italian category, yet is more Ancient Greek related than actual Italian. It certainly would help if they provided an explanation. I can only imagine how some Nonna’s react when they see they are 30% middle eastern and 0% Italian

I know, but if they can't differentiate Italian from Iberian and Greek maybe they should stick to a "South Europe" category...

digital_noise
07-14-2018, 07:06 PM
But maybe they can, and Italians are just not as Italian as they once were due to whatever reasons. Iím no expert though so take that for what itís worth. Who knows, really

msmarjoribanks
07-14-2018, 07:44 PM
To be fair one should be skeptical about every test as they are not 100% yet.

But Iím not sure I can agree yet as the data has shown across many many plots, comparisons and whatnot that southern italian and Greek are very very close, with some exceptions based on location. As far as how My Heritage labels these components, I agree it might be confusing and I havenít figured out their methods quite yet.

I would also be skeptical about many results, but MyHeritage is still in beta, isn't it? And it seems to have a documented record not just of confusing Scandinavian and English and the like (as many others do) but in certain components being way more common than elsewhere and in many cases kind of out of the blue.

The oh so common Nigerian is one example of this, but Greek seems to be another, and not just for people with Italian ancestry. So I wouldn't assume it must track to something super logical.

Erikl86
07-15-2018, 07:15 AM
I've got a link to this thread from Sikeliot (as a result of our mutual shared interest in Italian-Greek ancestry). I must say I personally know one of the PhD for genetics who work in MyHeritage. There is no reason to bash their work - they know what they're doing.

What you see, regarding Greek ancestry of South Italians and Sicilians, is totally compatible with other studies (Sarno et al., Heraclides et al., etc.) and known history (South Italy and Sicily were heavily settled by Greeks starting from the 8th century BC, and S. Italy was part of the Greek world until the 11th century AD. Syracuse in Sicily was even the capital of the Greek speaking Byzantine Empire for few decades in early medieval period, and many famous Greek philosophers were actually Sicilians - like Archimedes for example).
Palermo, or Ziz in Phoenician as it was originally called, was established by Phoenicians in the 9th century BC, and later on was also settled by Punics (part of Phoenician, part North African). Phoenicians were Levantine Middle Easterners, ie their direct modern descendants genetically are Lebanese. Sicily was also under Moorish, aka North African, rule for 260 years during the Medieval era.

Of course, as Sikeliot rightly say, the local pre-Greek, pre-Punic/Phoenician/Moorish population never disappeared, and so South Italians/Sicilians also get some Italians.

If anything, modern Sicilians and South Italians are closer to modern day Greek Islanders (Cretans, Aegeans and Dodecanese) that as opposed to Greek mainlanders have minimal Slavic admixture, than they are to North Italians, and vice versa - Cretans, Dodecanese Greeks, Kytherian Greeks etc., are closer to Calabrian Italians and East Sicilians than they are to Thracian Greeks.

Idwaajeden
07-15-2018, 10:01 AM
Cousin (Belarusian)

East European
9.8%

Baltic
60.9%

Balkan
29.3%

Idwaajeden
07-15-2018, 10:10 AM
Cousin (Croatian)

Balkan
96.8%

Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
3.2%

Idwaajeden
07-15-2018, 10:16 AM
Cousin (Russian)

Baltic
11.5%

Balkan
88.5%

Sikeliot
07-15-2018, 11:51 AM
I've got a link to this thread from Sikeliot (as a result of our mutual shared interest in Italian-Greek ancestry). I must say I personally know one of the PhD for genetics who work in MyHeritage. There is no reason to bash their work - they know what they're doing.

What you see, regarding Greek ancestry of South Italians and Sicilians, is totally compatible with other studies (Sarno et al., Heraclides et al., etc.) and known history (South Italy and Sicily were heavily settled by Greeks starting from the 8th century BC, and S. Italy was part of the Greek world until the 11th century AD. Syracuse in Sicily was even the capital of the Greek speaking Byzantine Empire for few decades in early medieval period, and many famous Greek philosophers were actually Sicilians - like Archimedes for example).
Palermo, or Ziz in Phoenician as it was originally called, was established by Phoenicians in the 9th century BC, and later on was also settled by Punics (part of Phoenician, part North African). Phoenicians were Levantine Middle Easterners, ie their direct modern descendants genetically are Lebanese. Sicily was also under Moorish, aka North African, rule for 260 years during the Medieval era.

Of course, as Sikeliot rightly say, the local pre-Greek, pre-Punic/Phoenician/Moorish population never disappeared, and so South Italians/Sicilians also get some Italians.

If anything, modern Sicilians and South Italians are closer to modern day Greek Islanders (Cretans, Aegeans and Dodecanese) that as opposed to Greek mainlanders have minimal Slavic admixture, than they are to North Italians, and vice versa - Cretans, Dodecanese Greeks, Kytherian Greeks etc., are closer to Calabrian Italians and East Sicilians than they are to Thracian Greeks.


My experience from seeing many results is, on average, Sicilians would score 65-70% "European" which is a mixture of Greek, Italian, and Sardinian, and then the other 30% is divided between West Asia, North Africa, and Middle East. From what I have seen all southern Italians score significant Greek, but some people in western Sicily are better modeled with less Southern European more Jewish. In this case I think it is because the "Jewish" (especially if it is North African Jewish scored) is capturing Punic ancestry.

Erikl86
07-15-2018, 12:36 PM
My experience from seeing many results is, on average, Sicilians would score 65-70% "European" which is a mixture of Greek, Italian, and Sardinian, and then the other 30% is divided between West Asia, North Africa, and Middle East. From what I have seen all southern Italians score significant Greek, but some people in western Sicily are better modeled with less Southern European more Jewish. In this case I think it is because the "Jewish" (especially if it is North African Jewish scored) is capturing Punic ancestry.

I tend to agree with your analysis.

kingjohn
07-15-2018, 01:52 PM
That sounds reasonable, so why dont other testing companies apply that?

One of my Aunt's matches gets 38% Greek, 26% Sardinian and 5% Iberian. 0% Italian. 20% Sephardic and like 4% West Asian and 1,8% Middle east. Others are less complicated.

nice:)
do other calabrians score Sephardi or this is the only match your aunt got who score it ?
because up untill now only west sicilians cases are known who score sefhardi along with a woman from salento puglia who score 11.5% sephardi also
i see that they{ calabrians } score middle eastern so this componentnot only limited to sicilians
that is inline with there high red sea 5% or more in eurogenes k13

p.s
and i can back it up since i do have some calabrian gedmatch kits and i can post there results .....

digital_noise
07-15-2018, 04:13 PM
I've got a link to this thread from Sikeliot (as a result of our mutual shared interest in Italian-Greek ancestry). I must say I personally know one of the PhD for genetics who work in MyHeritage. There is no reason to bash their work - they know what they're doing.

What you see, regarding Greek ancestry of South Italians and Sicilians, is totally compatible with other studies (Sarno et al., Heraclides et al., etc.) and known history (South Italy and Sicily were heavily settled by Greeks starting from the 8th century BC, and S. Italy was part of the Greek world until the 11th century AD. Syracuse in Sicily was even the capital of the Greek speaking Byzantine Empire for few decades in early medieval period, and many famous Greek philosophers were actually Sicilians - like Archimedes for example).
Palermo, or Ziz in Phoenician as it was originally called, was established by Phoenicians in the 9th century BC, and later on was also settled by Punics (part of Phoenician, part North African). Phoenicians were Levantine Middle Easterners, ie their direct modern descendants genetically are Lebanese. Sicily was also under Moorish, aka North African, rule for 260 years during the Medieval era.

Of course, as Sikeliot rightly say, the local pre-Greek, pre-Punic/Phoenician/Moorish population never disappeared, and so South Italians/Sicilians also get some Italians.

If anything, modern Sicilians and South Italians are closer to modern day Greek Islanders (Cretans, Aegeans and Dodecanese) that as opposed to Greek mainlanders have minimal Slavic admixture, than they are to North Italians, and vice versa - Cretans, Dodecanese Greeks, Kytherian Greeks etc., are closer to Calabrian Italians and East Sicilians than they are to Thracian Greeks.

thanks for chiming in. This was my understanding as well, but on a much more basic level. Im no expert at this stuff as its all relatively new to me.

msmarjoribanks
07-15-2018, 06:23 PM
I've got a link to this thread from Sikeliot (as a result of our mutual shared interest in Italian-Greek ancestry). I must say I personally know one of the PhD for genetics who work in MyHeritage. There is no reason to bash their work - they know what they're doing.

It's not "bashing" to point out that they are still at a stage where they have certain odd patterns in their results that seem to be inconsistent with other results.

Similarly, it's not "bashing" to say that Ancestry currently tends to (not always, but there's a pattern) overestimate Scandinavian.

Some of these components are hard to separate out, especially for mixed people.

I know that there are significant Greek components in Southern Italian ancestry, that's extremely well-known. I also suspect that it's very hard to separate out Southern European results (or Italian and Greek) in a mixed individual just as it is obviously very difficult to separate out NW European results in some cases (and I think MyHeritage has some issues there too, and tends to overestimate Irish, etc.).

I don't think that's a huge flaw, but I would be skeptical before assuming that a result that has surprising Greek demonstrates some kind of actual recent ancestry that one can get to the bottom of, as MyHeritage seems to be claiming (and why they attempt to separate out Greek and Italian based on their supposed sample populations, which most companies don't claim they can do). If they can't, in fact, separate out Greek and Southern Italian due to the overlap in the current populations (which is the situation Ancestry admits to in having a Greek/Italian result), then I'm not sure why they pretend they can. Unlike many of the Gedmatch tests, MyHeritage is trying to peg ancestry to actual current countries or regions, and not historical components.

Anyway, my point in pointing to quirky MyHeritage results was not about Greek for people with Southern Italian heritage, but that "Greek" seems to be extra common even for lots of other people (kind of how Nigerian is, though I don't think it's to that extent). Yes, this might be reflecting something real (although ancient), but that's not what MyHeritage is claiming and I'm not sure what it would be -- I'm talking about people who don't otherwise get Italian results either.

Rather than assuming it must mean a hidden Greek (or Sicilian) ancestor, I think it makes sense to note that it's a quirk of MyHeritage. Obviously if it reflects a pattern that is otherwise apparent in other tests, that could be different.

digital_noise
07-16-2018, 06:13 PM
nice:)
do other calabrians score Sephardi or this is the only match your aunt got who score it ?
because up untill now only west sicilians cases are known who score sefhardi along with a woman from salento puglia who score 11.5% sephardi also
i see that they{ calabrians } score middle eastern so this componentnot only limited to sicilians
that is inline with there high red sea 5% or more in eurogenes k13

p.s
and i can back it up since i do have some calabrian gedmatch kits and i can post there results .....

this is the only one thus far. However, one of our matches scores like 8% Red Sea in K13. I'll keep digging.

Alexandra_K
07-20-2018, 06:42 PM
this is the only one thus far. However, one of our matches scores like 8% Red Sea in K13. I'll keep digging.

I don't know if you think it is relevant in some way, but my father who's Greek (1/2 Kephalonia, 1/2 Kea) scores close to 18% Sephardic Jewish from North Africa in MyHeritage. Also around 72% Greek if I remember right, almost 4% Italian and another 5% Eastern European and Baltic. His Italian component is very high in both Ancestry and 23andme (around 30%). I don't remember his results by heart but I could find them if you are interested.
On the other hand, influenced by the 100% Epirot ancestry of my mother, I score around 45% Balkan and almost 42% Greek at MyHeritage, also almost 8% North African and 5% Ashkenazi. At Ancestry before the recent update I got around 72% Greek/Italian, 14% Eastern European etc (the rest were small percentages of Middle East, Caucasus, Northwestern Europe, Britain, European Jewish and Iberian). Now with the update I have around 70% Greece and the Balkans and for the rest just Italy. My husband who is Italian (1/2 Sicilian, 1/2 Marche) scores 50% Greek, 30% Italian, 10% Iberian and smaller percentages of Northwestern Europe, Middle East and North Africa at MyHeritage.
I think that all the companies are in the process of refining their results gradually and that one can get a more global picture through comparing the results of various companies about the same person to each other. They are all still experimenting a bit with their categories (look at the huge shift of Ancestry from Italy and Greece to Greece and the Balkans: funnily although the category changed my percentage remained almost the same).
Also judging from Gedmatch and LMgentetics (whose report seems to be really on the spot), MyHeritage is not so inaccurate concerning all of my family's results. For example, my Italian husband's "Greek" component is very evident also at his reports at Gedmatch and LMgenetics. Also my own Balkan/Slavic and Albanian admixture. My father who is a Greek islander (has some more limited than me Slavic and Albanian admixture too) but for the rest, his profile is almost more similar to my Italian husband's than to mine, so to say. Mine on the other hand is heavily influenced by my mother's Northwestern Greek ancestry. So I have noticed some of the patterns you discuss here even in myself and my own family.
The high Sephardic of my father without any known ancestor is a bit weird (in other companies he does get low European Jewish or Sephardic percentages though). But I am sure it can be explained on some way.

Alexandra_K
07-20-2018, 08:33 PM
this is the only one thus far. However, one of our matches scores like 8% Red Sea in K13. I'll keep digging.

By the way I forgot to mention that my father's Red Sea at Gedmatch (Eurogenes K13) is 5,38.

czl
07-20-2018, 11:16 PM
It's not "bashing" to point out that they are still at a stage where they have certain odd patterns in their results that seem to be inconsistent with other results.

Similarly, it's not "bashing" to say that Ancestry currently tends to (not always, but there's a pattern) overestimate Scandinavian.

Some of these components are hard to separate out, especially for mixed people.

I know that there are significant Greek components in Southern Italian ancestry, that's extremely well-known. I also suspect that it's very hard to separate out Southern European results (or Italian and Greek) in a mixed individual just as it is obviously very difficult to separate out NW European results in some cases (and I think MyHeritage has some issues there too, and tends to overestimate Irish, etc.).

I don't think that's a huge flaw, but I would be skeptical before assuming that a result that has surprising Greek demonstrates some kind of actual recent ancestry that one can get to the bottom of, as MyHeritage seems to be claiming (and why they attempt to separate out Greek and Italian based on their supposed sample populations, which most companies don't claim they can do). If they can't, in fact, separate out Greek and Southern Italian due to the overlap in the current populations (which is the situation Ancestry admits to in having a Greek/Italian result), then I'm not sure why they pretend they can. Unlike many of the Gedmatch tests, MyHeritage is trying to peg ancestry to actual current countries or regions, and not historical components.

Anyway, my point in pointing to quirky MyHeritage results was not about Greek for people with Southern Italian heritage, but that "Greek" seems to be extra common even for lots of other people (kind of how Nigerian is, though I don't think it's to that extent). Yes, this might be reflecting something real (although ancient), but that's not what MyHeritage is claiming and I'm not sure what it would be -- I'm talking about people who don't otherwise get Italian results either.

Rather than assuming it must mean a hidden Greek (or Sicilian) ancestor, I think it makes sense to note that it's a quirk of MyHeritage. Obviously if it reflects a pattern that is otherwise apparent in other tests, that could be different.

I canít speak for 23 and me since thatís the only one I havenít done but everything else overestimates Scandinavian by a ton, I donít think itís just an ancestry thing same with my heritage and their Irish and northwestern Europe, itís kinda just an everywhere kinda thing

msmarjoribanks
07-21-2018, 05:16 PM
All of the services have trouble separating English and Scandinavian and German, so it's possible that you get extra Scandinavian from any service (and it definitely happens sometimes at MyHeritage). The pattern seems more consistent at Ancestry. Both my sister and I get way high Scandinavian at Ancestry, and I get none at FTDNA, a generally correct amount at LivingDNA, a bit low at 23andMe (but with unassigned NW Europe, so I think it evens out), and a bit low at MyHeritage (but lots of people get high at MyHeritage). I'm going by what others have reported, not just my own results, though.

The patterns I see at MyHeritage are more all over the place or odd, like Greek sometimes appearing for people who don't otherwise get any Greek and are of generally NW European background (like my mom). And the little bit of Nigerian they like to give.

Scandinavian could come from your Russian background as well as the British Isles, so you could be getting it from both sides, even if you have no more recent Scandinavian ancestry.

czl
07-21-2018, 05:37 PM
Yeah definitely! Having an influence for the Scandinavian result from both sides really would boost the estimate Iíd say as well.
On ancestry I got 0-6%
On my heritage I got 14%
No known recent Scandinavian ancestors
My heritage basically did everything correct for me except the large 14% and perhaps a 2% Eskimo number but Iím still looking into that

Dimanto
07-22-2018, 05:52 PM
It's not "bashing" to point out that they are still at a stage where they have certain odd patterns in their results that seem to be inconsistent with other results.

Similarly, it's not "bashing" to say that Ancestry currently tends to (not always, but there's a pattern) overestimate Scandinavian.

Some of these components are hard to separate out, especially for mixed people.

I know that there are significant Greek components in Southern Italian ancestry, that's extremely well-known. I also suspect that it's very hard to separate out Southern European results (or Italian and Greek) in a mixed individual just as it is obviously very difficult to separate out NW European results in some cases (and I think MyHeritage has some issues there too, and tends to overestimate Irish, etc.).

I don't think that's a huge flaw, but I would be skeptical before assuming that a result that has surprising Greek demonstrates some kind of actual recent ancestry that one can get to the bottom of, as MyHeritage seems to be claiming (and why they attempt to separate out Greek and Italian based on their supposed sample populations, which most companies don't claim they can do). If they can't, in fact, separate out Greek and Southern Italian due to the overlap in the current populations (which is the situation Ancestry admits to in having a Greek/Italian result), then I'm not sure why they pretend they can. Unlike many of the Gedmatch tests, MyHeritage is trying to peg ancestry to actual current countries or regions, and not historical components.

Anyway, my point in pointing to quirky MyHeritage results was not about Greek for people with Southern Italian heritage, but that "Greek" seems to be extra common even for lots of other people (kind of how Nigerian is, though I don't think it's to that extent). Yes, this might be reflecting something real (although ancient), but that's not what MyHeritage is claiming and I'm not sure what it would be -- I'm talking about people who don't otherwise get Italian results either.

Rather than assuming it must mean a hidden Greek (or Sicilian) ancestor, I think it makes sense to note that it's a quirk of MyHeritage. Obviously if it reflects a pattern that is otherwise apparent in other tests, that could be different.

MyHeritage even has issues splitting up mixed raced individuals. My girlfriend also got a 7+% overestimation on one side (in her case her Dutch side) over her Southeast Asian side. I also have a 7+% overstimation for my Italian side, so this seems to be a common issue with MyHeritage and mixed individuals.

Dimanto
07-22-2018, 06:07 PM
24809 Ancestry

24810 23andme

24811 FTDNA

Dimanto
07-22-2018, 07:03 PM
I've got a link to this thread from Sikeliot (as a result of our mutual shared interest in Italian-Greek ancestry). I must say I personally know one of the PhD for genetics who work in MyHeritage. There is no reason to bash their work - they know what they're doing.

What you see, regarding Greek ancestry of South Italians and Sicilians, is totally compatible with other studies (Sarno et al., Heraclides et al., etc.) and known history (South Italy and Sicily were heavily settled by Greeks starting from the 8th century BC, and S. Italy was part of the Greek world until the 11th century AD. Syracuse in Sicily was even the capital of the Greek speaking Byzantine Empire for few decades in early medieval period, and many famous Greek philosophers were actually Sicilians - like Archimedes for example).
Palermo, or Ziz in Phoenician as it was originally called, was established by Phoenicians in the 9th century BC, and later on was also settled by Punics (part of Phoenician, part North African). Phoenicians were Levantine Middle Easterners, ie their direct modern descendants genetically are Lebanese. Sicily was also under Moorish, aka North African, rule for 260 years during the Medieval era.

Of course, as Sikeliot rightly say, the local pre-Greek, pre-Punic/Phoenician/Moorish population never disappeared, and so South Italians/Sicilians also get some Italians.

If anything, modern Sicilians and South Italians are closer to modern day Greek Islanders (Cretans, Aegeans and Dodecanese) that as opposed to Greek mainlanders have minimal Slavic admixture, than they are to North Italians, and vice versa - Cretans, Dodecanese Greeks, Kytherian Greeks etc., are closer to Calabrian Italians and East Sicilians than they are to Thracian Greeks.

I know a half Lombardian/Dutch guy that scores mostly Greek for his Italian side but his Southern Europe score is lower than mine confirming Northern Italian ancestry. I score no Greek at all on 3 different RAW data uploads but always 7+% more Southern Euro than Northwestern Euro (My Dutch side scores 100% Northwestern Euro) and I'm just half Southern Italian..
I'd take both labels at face value, only indicating either Greek, Albanian or Italian ancestry.

Sikeliot
07-22-2018, 08:30 PM
You can now see on MyHeritage the way your cousin matches score. The vast majority of my cousin matches, most of whom appear to be from the Palermo area as well as those of my cousin whose DNA I manage, all score more Greek than anything else, with varying amounts of MENA ranging from 20-45% and then the rest Italian and Sardinian.

Nibelung
07-22-2018, 08:38 PM
It looks like there's still some Norman heritage in Sicily, at least on the Y-DNA map.

Sikeliot
07-22-2018, 08:41 PM
It looks like there's still some Norman heritage in Sicily, at least on the Y-DNA map.

I see some evidence of it autosomally in part of Trapani but that's about it. Possibly also the towns in Palermo nearest the Trapani border.

I think overall we're talking about one ancestor a very long time ago reflected in the y-dna, but the autosomal profile for most people does not show it very much.

JerryS.
07-22-2018, 10:49 PM
I see some evidence of it autosomally in part of Trapani but that's about it. Possibly also the towns in Palermo nearest the Trapani border.

I think overall we're talking about one ancestor a very long time ago reflected in the y-dna, but the autosomal profile for most people does not show it very much.

in the southeast of the island, near Ragusa there is a higher level or I1 Y-DNA (Scandinavian?). is this the local concentration you are referring to?

Sikeliot
07-22-2018, 10:55 PM
in the southeast of the island, near Ragusa there is a higher level or I1 Y-DNA (Scandinavian?). is this the local concentration you are referring to?


Not sure who made up that map but it is wildly inaccurate.

JerryS.
07-22-2018, 11:00 PM
Not sure who made up that map but it is wildly inaccurate.


https://www.theapricity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-74732.html

Sikeliot
07-22-2018, 11:39 PM
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-74732.html

So it was me. Well then :lol:

Still, it was based on a small sample and not something to take as gospel truth.

JerryS.
07-23-2018, 12:07 AM
So it was me. Well then :lol:

Still, it was based on a small sample and not something to take as gospel truth.

so is it that about 5% of Sicilian males have the Scandinavian Y DNA group and it is scattered, or just concentrated in a different area?

Nibelung
07-23-2018, 12:20 AM
Some of that R1b must be Scandinavian also. As far as I understand it Danes were in the majority in Normandy. I1 peaks far higher in Sweden/Norway. Plus the French/Celtic in the Normans, not to mention other things, has to affect the autosomal percentages, so what looks near negligible in certain Sicilian regions could really mean significant trace Norman ancestry.

Sikeliot
07-23-2018, 01:41 AM
Some of that R1b must be Scandinavian also. As far as I understand it Danes were in the majority in Normandy. I1 peaks far higher in Sweden/Norway. Plus the French/Celtic in the Normans, not to mention other things, has to affect the autosomal percentages, so what looks near negligible in certain Sicilian regions could really mean significant trace Norman ancestry.

The only way this could be true is if the GEDMatch average "South Italian" clusters already contain Norman ancestry (as I have seen only very few Sicilians who are noticeably more NW European than that average) and that before the Norman input, Sicily was basically Cyprus.

There is an area in Sicily that extends from Messina through Caltanissetta and makes up the eastern 2/3 of Palermo province where any North European input is very, very low. I doubt there is anything Norman in this area, but you should find it in Trapani.

JerryS.
07-24-2018, 08:09 PM
I found this interesting story today.... http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/07/24/rare-viking-discovery-made-in-italy.html

Sikeliot
07-24-2018, 09:31 PM
I found this interesting story today.... http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/07/24/rare-viking-discovery-made-in-italy.html

Hopefully they're tested. I don't think Normans in Sicily were anywhere close to purely Scandinavian though.

JerryS.
07-25-2018, 11:59 AM
Hopefully they're tested. I don't think Normans in Sicily were anywhere close to purely Scandinavian though.

I agree. by the time Sicily was freed from the Moors, the Norman rulers probably married into the local population a generation or two. the story based its beliefs on the skeletal structure being more "Viking" like, and not on DNA. time will tell if they even bother to investigate further.

Dimanto
08-01-2018, 11:41 PM
The only way this could be true is if the GEDMatch average "South Italian" clusters already contain Norman ancestry (as I have seen only very few Sicilians who are noticeably more NW European than that average) and that before the Norman input, Sicily was basically Cyprus.

There is an area in Sicily that extends from Messina through Caltanissetta and makes up the eastern 2/3 of Palermo province where any North European input is very, very low. I doubt there is anything Norman in this area, but you should find it in Trapani.

We know that's not what happened. If so all of the Mezzogiorno must've had a similar admixture from the Normans and I think this is extremely implausible.

kingjohn
09-27-2018, 12:50 PM
Are the southern Calabrese not Italic at all? It is starting to look like the indigenous Italic element of Calabria and Sicily has become so diluted.

i think the sardinian and the iberian in this southern calabrese represent the italic elements that wasn't reduced by greeks

digital_noise
09-27-2018, 04:50 PM
Just want to say that I am skeptical about my eastern european background actually being 11% or more according to My Heritage (and FTDNA). The Living DNA raw data has me at about 2% Eastern Euro, which I guess makes more sense considering how far back the Hungarian ancestor actually was.

I ran Living DNA through My Heritage and while I feel Living DNA is a bad test at this point, the raw data wasnt much better. However, According to My Heritage I am 22% Greek and 4% Italian. We have seen that southern Italians/Sicilians get high Greek scores and at times almost no Italian.

So at this point I have seen the following with MyHeritage (23and Me V5 I dont remember what it was)
-Ancestry DNA upload: cant recall exact %'s but basically 18% Italian and 9% Greek (12% Eastern Euro)
-MyHeritage swab: 15.6% Italian 14.7% Greek (11% Eastern Euro)
-Living DNA upload 22.4% Greek 4.7% Italian. (1.7% Eastern Euro)

kingjohn
09-27-2018, 05:03 PM
Just want to say that I am skeptical about my eastern european background actually being 11% or more according to My Heritage (and FTDNA). The Living DNA raw data has me at about 2% Eastern Euro, which I guess makes more sense considering how far back the Hungarian ancestor actually was.

I ran Living DNA through My Heritage and while I feel Living DNA is a bad test at this point, the raw data wasnt much better. However, According to My Heritage I am 22% Greek and 4% Italian. We have seen that southern Italians/Sicilians get high Greek scores and at times almost no Italian.

So at this point I have seen the following with MyHeritage (23and Me V5 I dont remember what it was)
-Ancestry DNA upload: cant recall exact %'s but basically 18% Italian and 9% Greek (12% Eastern Euro)
-MyHeritage swab: 15.6% Italian 14.7% Greek (11% Eastern Euro)
-Living DNA upload 22.4% Greek 4.7% Italian. (1.7% Eastern Euro)

but you score eastern europe in my heritage swab
and also in dna tribes snp report .. as much as it is weird it might be real stuff
i am more confused than you
because i can't explain to you how you got it but maybe the Swedish heritage of you is responsible for it ..... :)

msmarjoribanks
09-29-2018, 12:26 PM
As I said in the FTDNA thread, I think FTDNA has issues, and one is excessive EE (in my case due to splitting my German and Swedish into British Isles and EE). I don't get any EE at 23andMe (which I find much more trustworthy) or Ancestry (both pre and post update).

I get about 3% at LivingDNA (which is currently problematic, though, and I think this could be related to putting my German in England).

My lack of trust for MyHeritage particularly is that its results are all over the place for the people I've looked at, and seem to vary based on when you uploaded. My personal results are reasonable (and I only get 1.9% Baltic for EE, which isn't crazy), but given others I've seen I think that's more luck than anything else. Among other things, my dad gets 8.9% Iberian (way higher than anywhere else but Gedmatch) plus 4.5% Balkan (I get 2% Iberian, no Balkan), and my mom gets 3.4% Balkan and 5.9% Greek (neither of which makes any sense with her background, no she's not Italian at all either, but has some SW German). My parents were uploaded at a different time than me, so this Balkan thing I think relates more to when they were uploaded.

JerryS.
09-29-2018, 01:34 PM
Just want to say that I am skeptical about my eastern european background actually being 11% or more according to My Heritage (and FTDNA). The Living DNA raw data has me at about 2% Eastern Euro, which I guess makes more sense considering how far back the Hungarian ancestor actually was.

I ran Living DNA through My Heritage and while I feel Living DNA is a bad test at this point, the raw data wasnt much better. However, According to My Heritage I am 22% Greek and 4% Italian. We have seen that southern Italians/Sicilians get high Greek scores and at times almost no Italian.

So at this point I have seen the following with MyHeritage (23and Me V5 I dont remember what it was)
-Ancestry DNA upload: cant recall exact %'s but basically 18% Italian and 9% Greek (12% Eastern Euro)
-MyHeritage swab: 15.6% Italian 14.7% Greek (11% Eastern Euro)
-Living DNA upload 22.4% Greek 4.7% Italian. (1.7% Eastern Euro)

Ancestry DNA gave me less than 1% Eastern European, however Dodecad gives me 10-11%. I do have north German ancestry, but to my knowledge nothing east of that at all.

digital_noise
09-29-2018, 07:57 PM
Ancestry DNA gave me less than 1% Eastern European, however Dodecad gives me 10-11%. I do have north German ancestry, but to my knowledge nothing east of that at all.

I wonder if at this point we are dealing with different timelines with different tests. I have read, and admittedly have no idea if its true or not, but some tests test further back than others.

msmarjoribanks
10-01-2018, 04:26 PM
Ancestry DNA gave me less than 1% Eastern European, however Dodecad gives me 10-11%. I do have north German ancestry, but to my knowledge nothing east of that at all.

EE on Dodecad means something else than on Ancestry. Ancestry is trying to predict whether you have genealogical time ancestors from EE. Dodecad is identifying components that exist in the largest amounts in people from EE, but also in people not from EE for possibly thousands of years.

If you look at the spreadsheet for V3, they have a Swedish sample with 13%, Norwegian with 10%, Orkney with 11%, France 5%, German (doesn't say from where) 17%, so on.

There also seems to be quite a lot of variety between different samples from the same place, which isn't surprising.

msmarjoribanks
10-01-2018, 04:32 PM
I wonder if at this point we are dealing with different timelines with different tests. I have read, and admittedly have no idea if its true or not, but some tests test further back than others.

I would put that differently. Gedmatch tests are identifying components (often they have misleading names, IMO). People in NW Europe may have southern and eastern components (or Asian), in fact usually do, although in smaller amounts than people from SE Europe, say. Is this measuring older ancestry? In the sense that NW populations generally came from the E (steppes) and SE (early farmers), maybe, but I think it's more simply recognizing that these are components that don't exist in one area alone.

Ancestry (like 23andMe and also MyHeritage) tries to look at DNA and identify the actual ancestral breakdown, not simply components. (Not that they necessarily do it that well, but one reason is that it's very hard to do, especially with people who are mixes of ancestry from different areas that have a lot of overlap.)

JerryS.
10-02-2018, 12:51 AM
I would put that differently. Gedmatch tests are identifying components (often they have misleading names, IMO). People in NW Europe may have southern and eastern components (or Asian), in fact usually do, although in smaller amounts than people from SE Europe, say. Is this measuring older ancestry? In the sense that NW populations generally came from the E (steppes) and SE (early farmers), maybe, but I think it's more simply recognizing that these are components that don't exist in one area alone.

Ancestry (like 23andMe and also MyHeritage) tries to look at DNA and identify the actual ancestral breakdown, not simply components. (Not that they necessarily do it that well, but one reason is that it's very hard to do, especially with people who are mixes of ancestry from different areas that have a lot of overlap.)

GEDmatch does this as well with their mixed mode population groupings (oracles).

msmarjoribanks
10-02-2018, 01:48 AM
GEDmatch does this as well with their mixed mode population groupings (oracles).

Yes, that's true. But not very well.

mildlycurly
10-12-2018, 06:41 PM
I also scored some Balkan on Myheritage (1.4%), despite having no known Balkan ancestry. I score 2% Southern European on DNA Land, and the locations given seem to indicate a Northern Italian match. Is this "Balkan" indicative of Northern Italian ancestry? I may have had a great-great-great-great grandfather or somewhere along those lines who was from Lombardy.

digital_noise
10-18-2018, 08:49 PM
Just want to say that I am skeptical about my eastern european background actually being 11% or more according to My Heritage (and FTDNA). The Living DNA raw data has me at about 2% Eastern Euro, which I guess makes more sense considering how far back the Hungarian ancestor actually was.

I ran Living DNA through My Heritage and while I feel Living DNA is a bad test at this point, the raw data wasnt much better. However, According to My Heritage I am 22% Greek and 4% Italian. We have seen that southern Italians/Sicilians get high Greek scores and at times almost no Italian.

So at this point I have seen the following with MyHeritage (23and Me V5 I dont remember what it was)
-Ancestry DNA upload: cant recall exact %'s but basically 18% Italian and 9% Greek (12% Eastern Euro)
-MyHeritage swab: 15.6% Italian 14.7% Greek (11% Eastern Euro)
-Living DNA upload 22.4% Greek 4.7% Italian. (1.7% Eastern Euro)


Just ran a 23 and Me V5 to V3 conversion through My Heritage and got (surprise surprise) another %

12.1% Greek, 11.7% Italian, 5.4% Eastern European.

I didnt mention, but all the tests thus far also have a 1% to 1.9% Ashkenazi as well.

JerryS.
10-18-2018, 10:47 PM
Just ran a 23 and Me V5 to V3 conversion through My Heritage and got (surprise surprise) another %

12.1% Greek, 11.7% Italian, 5.4% Eastern European.

I didnt mention, but all the tests thus far also have a 1% to 1.9% Ashkenazi as well.

what accounts for the changing results using the same data just run at different times?

digital_noise
10-19-2018, 03:36 AM
its actually different raw data from different companies but I dont know why some of the %'s vary so drastically.

JerryS.
10-19-2018, 08:37 AM
its actually different raw data from different companies but I dont know why some of the %'s vary so drastically.

I don't understand why the raw data would be different? is it because certain companies are bias toward certain things?

Sizzles
10-19-2018, 09:35 AM
Subject Kind of related here, I'm still wondering why I inherited 15% greek when my mom is at 4% and dad is at 5%. Is it possible.

FionnSneachta
10-19-2018, 12:08 PM
I don't understand why the raw data would be different? is it because certain companies are bias toward certain things?

It's because the different companies test different SNPs.

digital_noise
10-19-2018, 06:06 PM
Subject Kind of related here, I'm still wondering why I inherited 15% greek when my mom is at 4% and dad is at 5%. Is it possible.

What are your results? Do you have more than one raw data uploaded?

I haven't figured out My Heritage yet. I think they are inconsistent with the details but the overall regional % is accurate. I get anywhere from 4% to 18% Italian, same with Greek but in the end it all adds up to 24%-30% which matches what I know. Same with the NW European that I see in the many uploads I have.

Look at My NW Euro vs my daughters NW Euro. Then look at her Italian % vs my Italian%...
26803
26804

msmarjoribanks
10-19-2018, 10:00 PM
They don't all test the same markers.

I think part of the difference is that MyHeritage is in beta (I think it still is?) and changes around how it does the results. I've seen different patterns depending on when the data was uploaded.

digital_noise
10-19-2018, 10:05 PM
I think they are out of beta at this point. I read on a different forum that they will be introducing a new algorithm later this year. I have zero reference to back that up though so take it with a grain of salt.

Sizzles
10-20-2018, 12:41 PM
What are your results? Do you have more than one raw data uploaded?

I haven't figured out My Heritage yet. I think they are inconsistent with the details but the overall regional % is accurate. I get anywhere from 4% to 18% Italian, same with Greek but in the end it all adds up to 24%-30% which matches what I know. Same with the NW European that I see in the many uploads I have.

Look at My NW Euro vs my daughters NW Euro. Then look at her Italian % vs my Italian%...
26803
26804

No I'm sorry that is from ancestry. My heritage not very accurate for me.
Mine from heritage
43.4% north and west euro
31.3% italian Im 25% italian
15.2% balkan
4.9% east euro
5.2% west asian and middle east

My father is 95 % east euro and 5% balkan according to ancestry.
My mother is
38% sicilian
24% England Wales northwest euro
19% ireland and scotland
11% Germanic euro
4% greek and balkan
2% france
2% portugal

Her dad is from sicily

Ancestry mine
42% east euro
22% sicilian
15% greek and balkan
13% ireland and scotland
3% Germanic euro
3% french
1% sweden
2% baltic states

vettor
10-20-2018, 08:39 PM
the beauty about myHeritage is that they do not merge Italian with Greek but seperate it

my cousin below

Europe 100.0%

South Europe 73.5%
Italian 54.9%
Iberian 12.1%
Greek 6.5%

North and West Europe 16.4%
North and West European 16.4%

East Europe 8.2%
Balkan 8.2%

Ashkenazi Jewish 1.9%
Ashkenazi Jewish 1.9%


and mine below

Europe 100.0%

South Europe 70.2%
Italian 70.2%

East Europe 15.6%
Balkan 15.6%

North and West Europe 14.2%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh 14.2%

vettor
10-20-2018, 08:41 PM
the beauty about myHeritage is that they do not merge Italian with Greek but seperate it

my cousin below

Europe 100.0%

South Europe 73.5%
Italian 54.9%
Iberian 12.1%
Greek 6.5%

North and West Europe 16.4%
North and West European 16.4%

East Europe 8.2%
Balkan 8.2%

Ashkenazi Jewish 1.9%
Ashkenazi Jewish 1.9%


and mine below

Europe 100.0%

South Europe 70.2%
Italian 70.2%

East Europe 15.6%
Balkan 15.6%

North and West Europe 14.2%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh 14.2%