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misanthropy
06-30-2018, 06:24 PM
Iíve heard mixed things about this. Someone I talked to said their last name is based on their grandfatherís first name, as was in my case as well. In my case, my fatherís generation ended up changing the originally Arab tribal name to something more generic for societal reasons, as people from my paternal community were looked down upon. It seems like most still keep their surname, especially people like Khans and such.

parasar
07-04-2018, 12:51 AM
I’ve heard mixed things about this. Someone I talked to said their last name is based on their grandfather’s first name, as was in my case as well. In my case, my father’s generation ended up changing the originally Arab tribal name to something more generic for societal reasons, as people from my paternal community were looked down upon. It seems like most still keep their surname, especially people like Khans and such.

Yes.
In our family the gotr remained Parasar, but titles depended on the qualification or vocation - Dixit, Parasar, Sahi, Pandey, Singh, Sen, Mall, etc.

poi
07-04-2018, 07:09 AM
Yes.
In our family the gotr remained Parasar, but titles depended on the qualification or vocation - Dixit, Parasar, Sahi, Pandey, Singh, Sen, Mall, etc.

Technically the gotra is the "surname" since marriage was determined based on gotra. Is wasn't like surname was necessary back in the days... nobody opened a bank account or renewed passports back in those days. For casual use, occupation was likely used.

Rahuls77
07-05-2018, 10:39 PM
I really doubt if our lot ever cared about the Gotra, we had things like Clan Names, mine was Chaswal. Some gave it up for Bakshi, which was a title BTW, and others a more Indic-sounding Sharma.

RougeS
07-06-2018, 04:50 AM
Changes of surname occurred when people tried to elevate themselves like Ranas dynasty of Nepal,falsely claiming Rajput descent and some low caste group did change surname in past to escape untouchable status.Only surname change that usually occurs these days is when one changes their surname into a more generic one which is linked with or refers to whole ethnic group.

Rahuls77
07-06-2018, 05:13 AM
Changes of surname occurred when people tried to elevate themselves like Ranas dynasty of Nepal,falsely claiming Rajput descent and some low caste group did change surname in past to escape untouchable status.Only surname change that usually occurs these days is when one changes their surname into a more generic one which is linked with or refers to whole ethnic group.
It certainly has much truth in it.
I personally notice the loss of roots, by giving up the old surname, or an effort to distance themselves from their roots.

MonkeyDLuffy
07-06-2018, 06:07 AM
Changes of surname occurred when people tried to elevate themselves like Ranas dynasty of Nepal,falsely claiming Rajput descent and some low caste group did change surname in past to escape untouchable status.Only surname change that usually occurs these days is when one changes their surname into a more generic one which is linked with or refers to whole ethnic group.

My family changed the surname to community name like pandits use Sharma or all Sainis use saini or rajputs can use thakur. But we still carry our gotra.

Zaid
07-06-2018, 06:08 AM
All of my relatives seem to have Siddiqui or Khan

RougeS
07-06-2018, 06:35 AM
My family changed the surname to community name like pandits use Sharma or all Sainis use saini or rajputs can use thakur. But we still carry our gotra.

Yeah gotras aren’t normally changed . My father started using the community/generic name over our surname but my great great grandfather too used generic one so there were switching happening between surname & community one over the generations.Apparently All Brahmins are Sharmas and Kshatriyas are burmas but use of Burma isn’t that prevalent.

26284729292
07-12-2018, 10:03 AM
In the south, lastnames change due to odd naming customs. As such, even within higher castes, which are considered interbred, it's hard to read into appearance/ancestry based on a surname. 2 people of the surname could look incredibly different in Tamil Nadu, for example, with one looking close to the average Tamil and another looking very very north shifted.

bmoney
07-12-2018, 11:06 AM
I don't know about other South Indians but my community uses caste based titles. I have noticed a trend for South Indians to use paternal last names or, particularly for Tamils, for names that tend to be a combination of two Sanskritic nouns with a Dravidian 'am' at the end

My generation introduced a small change in some families where we dropped the caste name due to being generic and adopted the joint-family village name of clan origin, so my last name is a slight spelling change on a village searchable on google maps lol. And I also have a different surname to my parents which is confusing

bmoney
07-12-2018, 12:08 PM
In the south, lastnames change due to odd naming customs. As such, even within higher castes, which are considered interbred, it's hard to read into appearance/ancestry based on a surname. 2 people of the surname could look incredibly different in Tamil Nadu, for example, with one looking close to the average Tamil and another looking very very north shifted.

Btw sidenote another M30, where is your maternal line from?

26284729292
07-12-2018, 10:54 PM
Define from? My mom is a brahmin (paternal) , though her family is "mixed" within India, and we suspect connections to UP based on surnames, her appearance, etc. and such, but it's hard to say.

bmoney
07-12-2018, 11:54 PM
Define from? My mom is a brahmin (paternal) , though her family is "mixed" within India, and we suspect connections to UP based on surnames, her appearance, etc. and such, but it's hard to say.

Eh? is she from Trinidad or something?

26284729292
07-13-2018, 12:26 AM
Nah, not Trinidad. Family lived in Mumbai, now lives in the states.

bmoney
07-13-2018, 12:33 AM
Nah, not Trinidad. Family lived in Mumbai, now lives in the states.

If Mumbai, it should be relatively easy to trace where she's from. Mumbai is largely Gujarati or Marathi/Konkani so people outside these groups generally keep their distinct identity

26284729292
07-13-2018, 12:36 AM
Her dad is an iyer, mom is a "pandey" if that helps?

redifflal
07-13-2018, 12:59 AM
Iyer is Tamil Brahmins, Pandey is Hindi belt Brahmin. Seems like an uncommon mix, and such marriage would not be arranged.

redifflal
07-13-2018, 01:24 AM
Concept of a constant surname is relatively new and ultimately Anglo derived I think as far as Indian subcontinent goes. My crew have been doing it for a few centuries now due to older British presence in the area relative to rest of subcontinent. The Brits even Anglicized a few surnames to suit their pronunciation. All the bong bromin surnames used to be some upadhyay (meaning teacher) prefixed with original village. So Upadhyay from village Bandoghat became Bandyopadhyay according to them Panini grammar rules. Then Brits turned that into Banerjee. I'm guessing it probably is some abbreviation attempt of Bandyopadhyay Jee (as in the regular sir/madam honorific suffix). Some of the even more Anglicized took it a step further and made it into Bonner-jay
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womesh_Chunder_Bonnerjee

Of course, having a jee stuck to the end of your last name gives a tongue twister to the Hindi speakers. So if you are a stage giving an award to Mr Banerjee, you will have to say "abh manch per bulate hain BanerjeeJEE ko". You gotta double up on your jees for us. The double jee tongue twister extends to our fellow bong bromin surnames Mukherjee, Chatterjee and Bhattacharji, which are Anglicized from Mukhopaddhyay, Chattopadhyay and Bhattacharya (last one is not the upadhyay addition of the other three but rather Bhatt + Acharya latter also means teacher). Of the Upadhyayas, it seems the Gangopadhyay avoided the double jee by being turned into Ganguly from Gangopadhyay instead of something grotesque like a Gangerjee or Gangsterjee even.

Of course the Banerjee kids get the worst of possible bullying from the Hindi kids, because they can easily turn your surname into Bandarjee (Mr Monkey), a fate that the other jees can avoid. Your boy redifflal may have been subject to such treatment at the playground.

26284729292
07-13-2018, 02:45 AM
Yeah agreed. They were living in a big city, it definitely wasn't arranged. My gramps is pretty phenotypically north shifted (pretty built, tall, skin/features) so maybe that eased tensions? Hard to say, I'd have to ask him.

NickedName
07-13-2018, 09:01 AM
A little off-topic but one is reminded of the hilarious UK BBC Asian comedy show Goodness Gracious Me and their sketch of two couples, the Coopers (Kapoors) and the Robinsons (Rabindranaths), trying to out-British each other. Worth a search on YouTube.

There's also that joke about something long and hard being given by the husbands from certain communities to the newly married wives - the punchline being the surname. Apologies if considered offensive and mods welcome to delete as appropriate.


Back on-topic we don't have surnames, family names or clan/tribal names, just X son of Y son of Z etc. Although folk tended to have two names usually. This was formalised with migration which usually required a family name for paperwork. Makes finding relatives harder of course.

bmoney
07-13-2018, 10:17 AM
A little off-topic but one is reminded of the hilarious UK BBC Asian comedy show Goodness Gracious Me and their sketch of two couples, the Coopers (Kapoors) and the Robinsons (Rabindranaths), trying to out-British each other. Worth a search on YouTube.

There's also that joke about something long and hard being given by the husbands from certain communities to the newly married wives - the punchline being the surname. Apologies if considered offensive and mods welcome to delete as appropriate.


Back on-topic we don't have surnames, family names or clan/tribal names, just X son of Y son of Z etc. Although folk tended to have two names usually. This was formalised with migration which usually required a family name for paperwork. Makes finding relatives harder of course.

that show was amazing heres one of the skits for y'all


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKc9EXo_CoU

bol_nat
07-20-2018, 02:10 AM
This is very common in Pakistan. If one move to cities or "kammi" was displaced from ancestral land in east punjab or beyond after 1947 and moved to west punjab, vast majority of them have changed surname/caste to claim some kind of perceived higher status in new homeland.

MonkeyDLuffy
07-20-2018, 02:19 AM
This is very common in Pakistan. If one move to cities or "kammi" was displaced from ancestral land in east punjab or beyond after 1947 and moved to west punjab, vast majority of them have changed surname/caste to claim some kind of perceived higher status in new homeland.

Yea I noticed Tarkhans and lohars have started using mughal in Pak punjab. Although they still carry their gotra, like my dad's best friend in Dubai was Panesar tarkhan from gujrat punjab. But he had mughal as last name.