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Solothurn
10-18-2013, 05:30 PM
Just got my latest AncestryDNA Ethnicity Estimates

I get this on the new version.

Great Britain 34%
Scandinavia 28%
Ireland 20%
Europe West 7%
Trace Regions 10%
Italy/Greece 6%
Finnish/Northern Russia 4%
Europe East < 1%

Better than FTDNA's PF which gave me

95.44% European (Orcadian)
4.56% Middle East: Mixed

Thoughts or your own results are very welcome :)

Scarlet Ibis
10-18-2013, 05:50 PM
Is this the updated ancestrydna test? It looks like they're still overestimating "Scandinavian," but the results don't look too bad. Thanks for sharing them

Solothurn
10-18-2013, 06:02 PM
Hi

Yes the latest updated result. V1 had me as 27% Scandinavian.

My known roots are mainly British/Irish but records before 1837 are Parish and unreliable!

I do have distant cousins on the Family Finder with no known UK ancestry so I am keeping an open mind :)




Is this the updated ancestrydna test? It looks like they're still overestimating "Scandinavian," but the results don't look too bad. Thanks for sharing them

geebee
10-19-2013, 05:52 PM
Here are mine, in descending order:

Europe 93%

Europe West 44% ["Primarily located in: Belgium, France, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein; Also found in: England, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Czech Republic"]
Great Britain 27% ["Primarily located in: England, Scotland, Wales; Also located in: Ireland, France, Germany]
Iberian Peninsula 9% ["Primarily found in: Spain, Portugal"; May also be found in: France, Morocco, Algeria, Italy"]
Ireland 7% ["Primarily found in: Ireland, Wales, Scotland; Also found in: France, England"]
Italy/Greece 2% ["Primarily found in: Italy, Greece, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia
Also found in: France, Switzerland, Portugal, Spain, Serbia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Austria, Croatia, Bosnia, Romania, Turkey, Slovenia, Algeria, Tunisia"
Scandinavia 2% ["Primarily found in: Sweden, Norway, Denmark; Also found in: Great Britain, Scotland, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium"]
European Jewish <1% European Jewish ["Primarily found in: Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia, Hungary, Israel; Also found in: Germany, France, Lithuania, Latvia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Romania, Bosnia, Serbia, Estonia"]
Finnish/Northern Russia <1% ["Primarily found in: Finland, Russia; May also be found in: Estonia, Latvia, Sweden, Lithuania"]

Asia 3%

Asia Central 2% ["Primarily located in: Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan; Also located in: Iran, Pakistan"]
Asia South 1% ["Primarily found in: India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka; Also located in: Myanmar"]

West Asia 3%

Caucasus 3% ["Primarily located in: Iran, Georgia, Armenia, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Azerbijan; Also found in: Turkmenistan, Kuwait, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Italy, Jordan, Palestine"]

America 1% ["Modern Day Location: United States, Canada, Mexico, Central America, South America"]

For comparison purposes, here's my rough estimate on the basis of my paper trail: German 50%, British 25%, Spanish 12.5%. I would hesitate to attempt percentages for the groups in the remaining 12.5%, but they include French, Irish, Swiss, Belgian, Dutch, and Choctaw.

Here also is FTDNA's rather pitiful effort: 100.00% European, ±0.01%. The populations -- with no percentages -- are given as Finnish, Russian, Spanish, and Tuscan. You'll note that only one of these can even be found in my paper trail (which includes most of my ancestors for the past 300 years, and some even further removed). "Spanish", my 3rd-largest component, is included; but German (1st) and British (2nd) are not.

Instead, FTDNA includes "Finnish" and "Russian" (together given as <1% by Ancestry), and "Tuscan". "Italy/Greece" is included in Ancestry's estimate, but only at 2%. I have long thought that FTDNA's estimate may have been hampered by the fact that the algorithm first assigns a continent, and then possibly a second continent.

Having failed to assign that second continent (presumably because the threshold wasn't reached), the "best fit" for "European" required an overemphasis on "Finnish" and "Russian". But that's only speculative on my part.

Scarlet Ibis
10-27-2013, 06:47 PM
How long did it take y'all to get your results back?

geebee
11-13-2013, 08:16 AM
How long did it take y'all to get your results back?

I'm afraid I don't remember, but it seemed to take months in total. I know that at one point I had to submit a new sample. That request came while I was in Malaysia, but fortunately that time I was only here for three months. By the time I ordered a new test kit, I was about to head back to the U.S. anyway. So I resubmitted before coming back to Malaysia again.

From the time of the resubmission in June 2012, it was probably still a few more weeks. I know I was again in Malaysia, so it wouldn't have been any earlier than August 2012. Possibly even later than that.

Their first ancestry estimate didn't seem anything to brag about, at least for me. I still thought it was better than FTDNA's. Ancestry estimated 48% Central European, 23% Scandinavian, 16% Eastern European, 7% Finnish/Volga-Ural, and 6% uncertain.

By paper trail, as I've said elsewhere, I should be pretty close to 50% German, 25% British, and 12.5% Spanish (Minorcan). That leaves 12.5% to be untangled from French, Belgian, Dutch, Swiss, Irish, and Choctaw.

The newer estimate is a little lower in Native American than some estimates I've seen, but I think it's at least in the ballpark. Doug McDonald had come up with about that in a "by hand" estimate, though he told me he thought it was probably nearer 2%. Ancestry Composition has 1.4% for the combined East Asian and Native American in the standard estimate, and 2.0% in speculative. But the main thing is, it did find it.

It also found most of my Spanish ancestry -- with "9% Iberian". It's also possible that the 2% "Italy/Greece" is also attributable to this ancestry, since my Spanish ancestors were from a Mediterranean island, not the mainland.

I'm somewhat intrigued, though, by some other "trace regions". Specifically, the 3% Caucasus, 2% Asia Central, and 1% Asia South. But I'm sure quite a few folks with mostly European ancestry are coming up with these.

Interestingly, this time "Scandinavia" is a mere 2%; and "Finnish/Northern Russia" is less than 1%.

Scarlet Ibis
11-24-2013, 06:44 PM
I got a kit back when it was on sale, and I got the results back early yesterday morning. On a Saturday! I was pleased with that.

Asia 52%
Asia East: 49%
Asia Central: 3%

Europe 48%
Scandinavia: 22%
Iberian Peninsula: 11%
Ireland: 9%
Great Britain: 3%
Europe East: 2%
Europe West: 1%


http://oi44.tinypic.com/2gxe23r.jpg

Scarlet Ibis
11-24-2013, 07:17 PM
Right now, my main beef with the results is the description/history they have for the "Population History" of Asia East.

According to Ancestry.com: "After several years of revolt, the Han Dynasty, from the northern part of China and Korea, began in 206 B.C. and ruled for 424 years. Today, the majority of Chinese and Koreans are considered ethnic Han, making them the largest ethnic group in the world."

^ I honestly don't know where they're getting this information from, because it's incorrect. Koreans are not ethnic Hans, nor have they ever been. They were an entirely separate ethno, and lingual group before the Han Dynasty even existed.

I've never been keen on ethnic nationalism, and separation, but sometimes, claiming an overlap is flat-out wrong. Koreans are no more ethnic Hans than Poles are ethnic Germans.

I'm going to email Ancestry.com about this.

Solothurn
11-25-2013, 12:24 PM
I know this is an Ancestry ethnicity thread and if I posted on U152 I would probably be told get over to an ethnicity thread :)

I couldn't find a way to parse the two topics! So please go easy on me, they go hand in hand in the long run IMHO. Especially as I assume (rightly/wrongly?) the majority of Romans, Vikings and other groups came as single men that 'coupled' with native females.

I hope the BigY gives us 'big' clues for Scandinavia, as 28% for me is high. I remember a discussion on the old forums U152 was said to be low in Scandinavia! BUT many had not SNP tested at that time.

I took a look at Sweden's current SNP results
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Sweden/default.aspx?vgroup=Sweden&section=ycolorized

Of the 35 R1b1a2 that have SNP results 7 are U152. 26 still need to test for SNPs

Other Scando-R1b1a2 that still need SNP testing
43 Norway http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Norway/default.aspx?vgroup=Norway&section=yresults
28 Denmark http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Danish_Demes/default.aspx?section=yresults

I ran Gedmatch Eurogenes K36 for my mum and myself (no dad to test!)

Mum

North_Sea 21.25%
North_Atlantic 13.33%
Fennoscandian 13.72%
Iberian 12.90%
Italian 10.42%
East_Central_Euro 6.67%
Central_Euro 6.50%
East_Balkan 4.21%
French 4.21%
Eastern_Euro 3.08%
Basque 1.43%

Me

North_Sea 19.47%
North_Atlantic 16.32%
Iberian 12.61%
Fennoscandian 11.36%
Italian 11.18%
East_Central_Euro 8.92%
Central_Euro 6.77%
Eastern_Euro 3.50%
French 4.67%
West_Med 1.39%
South_Central_Asian 1.34%
East_Balkan 1.34%
Basque 1.14%

My Y is mainly Durham/Northumberland in NE England, UK. 3/8 of my paternal gt grandparents are from this area. The other 5/8 are from Lancashire/Cheshire/N.Wales.

Obviously we have many Y and MTDNA lines in our makeup and looking at my matches' ancestors we are very similar.

Just some thoughts :)

Edit

added this link as legend says my Y was Lindisfarne lol :)
http://www.englandsnortheast.co.uk/VikingNorthumbria.html

ZephyrousMandaru
12-18-2013, 09:44 AM
I ordered the AncestryDNA test a few days, I think I'll be one, if not the only Assyrian who's ever taken this test.

AJL
12-18-2013, 07:11 PM
I ordered the AncestryDNA test a few days, I think I'll be one, if not the only Assyrian who's ever taken this test.

It will be interesting to see what ethnicities they assign you!

Humanist
12-18-2013, 07:51 PM
I ordered the AncestryDNA test a few days, I think I'll be one, if not the only Assyrian who's ever taken this test.


It will be interesting to see what ethnicities they assign you!

Happen to know what reference populations they use?

Zeph, your Geno 2.0 results suggested you were most like Georgians, right?

AJL
12-18-2013, 08:28 PM
The map here is a little outdated but in broad strokes should give an idea:

http://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2013/01/11/ancestrydna-ethnicity-prediction-learning-to-speak-genetics/

http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/ancestrydna-now-a-more-comprehensive-dna-test-for-exploring-ethnic-origins-1842254.htm

I do not believe they have ever published a complete list.

ZephyrousMandaru
12-19-2013, 06:03 PM
Happen to know what reference populations they use?

Zeph, your Geno 2.0 results suggested you were most like Georgians, right?

Yes, that's correct followed by Lebanese.

ZephyrousMandaru
12-19-2013, 09:55 PM
Good news, the AncestryDNA kit arrived today and I just shipped it off. Now the wait begins.

vettor
12-29-2013, 05:21 PM
why is it that in all these studies on auDna they all have Bulgarian sitting near North_Italian in the charts?

Does this Bulgarian refer to ancient eastern Thracians or the bulgars which came from the northern caspian sea areas?

AJL
12-29-2013, 06:21 PM
why is it that in all these studies on auDna they all have Bulgarian sitting near North_Italian in the charts?

Does this Bulgarian refer to ancient eastern Thracians or the bulgars which came from the northern caspian sea areas?

Bulgarians, from yDNA and autosomes, apparently have very little connection to Bulgars/Steppe and much more to Thracians/Balkans.

evon
12-29-2013, 07:37 PM
Anybody know if they accept DNA transfer from 23andme like FTDNA does?

AJL
12-29-2013, 07:42 PM
Anybody know if they accept DNA transfer from 23andme like FTDNA does?

Sadly no, nor do they accept kits from outside the US.

vettor
12-29-2013, 07:53 PM
Bulgarians, from yDNA and autosomes, apparently have very little connection to Bulgars/Steppe and much more to Thracians/Balkans.

thanks

I was wondering if the latest finds that ancient venetic people ( paleoveneti) originated from Turkenistan in the middle-bronze age period
http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.agi.it/estero/notizie/201311101420-est-rt10045-archeologia_l_origine_dei_paleoveneti_in_turkmenis tan&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dveneti%2BTurkmenistan%253F%26client%3 Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DBwN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dnp%26biw%3D1598%26bih%3D77 4

Harvard university has taken the skeletal samples away for analysis and matching with NE-Italian samples

AJL
12-29-2013, 07:57 PM
^ I don't think we have seen the results of that yet but Jean M will probably let us know when we have.

newtoboard
12-29-2013, 08:26 PM
thanks

I was wondering if the latest finds that ancient venetic people ( paleoveneti) originated from Turkenistan in the middle-bronze age period
http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.agi.it/estero/notizie/201311101420-est-rt10045-archeologia_l_origine_dei_paleoveneti_in_turkmenis tan&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dveneti%2BTurkmenistan%253F%26client%3 Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DBwN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dnp%26biw%3D1598%26bih%3D77 4

Harvard university has taken the skeletal samples away for analysis and matching with NE-Italian samples
Why would a Celtic tribe come from Turkmenistan?

vettor
12-29-2013, 09:59 PM
Why would a Celtic tribe come from Turkmenistan?

depends what you believe,
-I believe the venetic came from old northern illyrian/pannonian/noric people.
-Homer believes they where phygian anatolians
-Herodous believes they where northern illyrian

but the question is ...the euganei are the original people in north east Italy, they where driven inland and absorbed by the venetic.........who took the eugenai script and used it. Thats the only way that venetic script can be similar to raetic script, lepontic script and camunic script. .........it could not have been brought to north-east Italy by the migrating veneti.

This acheological link is to find if the ancient venetic started in turkmenistan, then moved to anatolia which would confirm homer's story

newtoboard
12-29-2013, 10:20 PM
In what time period are you thinking of for this migration from Turkmenistan?

None of the people you mentioned in your post existed in Centeal Asia.

vettor
12-29-2013, 10:26 PM
In what time period are you thinking of for this migration from Turkmenistan?

None of the people you mentioned in your post existed in Centeal Asia.

i think the middle-bronzeage or whatever the link states.

all we know from venetic archeology in Italy and austria is that so far its from 1070 BC

homer's trojan war and the eneti/veneti association is 1180BC

newtoboard
12-29-2013, 10:46 PM
Why would there be Illyrians in Asia around 1200 BC? How did they get there in the first place?

vettor
12-29-2013, 11:17 PM
Why would there be Illyrians in Asia around 1200 BC? How did they get there in the first place?

what illyrians in asia?

people move and take the identity of the people where they arrive. you need to re-read my post. ........i do not follow you.

to simplify read below
current theory from November 2013
1 - Veneti ( whoever they actually where, a pre-Turkmenistan tribe ) came from Turkmenistan
2- Veneti departed from Turkmenistan in middle bronze-age period
3- Veneti settled in northern anatolia mixing with pre-phygians and where named Eneti by Homer ( most likely after the city of Samsun which was called Enete in ancient times)...............some say enete since 2000BC
4 -Veneti migrated to north-east italy around 1200BC and absorbed the majority of the local Euganei population.

Euganei some say are liguri people, other claim they are linked with Raeti people...........more likely raeti IMO due to the script

I see nothing strange , same as vikings invaded normandy and took the term Normans as per the locals and learnt french .

Maybe you think that all people move and took their language with them and influenced via language the people where they settled, like slavic and germanic areas

Isidro
01-27-2014, 03:35 PM
Just got my results yesterday, wow it took lonly 2 weeks from lab processing notice.
My results are very similar to 23andMe to a tee:

AncestryDNA results January 26 2014

Europe 98%

Iberian Peninsula 68%
Europe West 14%
Italy/Greece 7%

Trace Regions: 9%

Great Britain 4%
Europe East 2%
Scandinavia 2%
Ireland 1%

Africa: < 1%
< 1% Africa North < 1%

West Asia < 1%

< 1% Caucasus < 1%

23andMe AC2 Speculative:

100%European

Southern European

58.8% Iberian
5.1% Italian
13.9% Nonspecific Southern European

Northern European

3.5% British & Irish
1.4% French & German
13.3% Nonspecific Northern European
0.5% Eastern European
0.1% Ashkenazi
3.3% Nonspecific European
< 0.1% Sub-Saharan African
< 0.1% Nonspecific Sub-Saharan African
< 0.1% Unassigned
"
My main component Iberian is very conservative at 23andMe , 58.8% Iberian is in the very low end of the "40 runs range" on Ancestry 56%-81%, and my score 68%.

Ron from PA
03-07-2014, 09:51 PM
Ancestry has me at 43% British and 21% Europe West. Meanwhile 23andMe has me in speculative 48% German and 16% British. All the calculators at Gedmatch have me as German. So for me Ancestry is the one that does'nt line up for me. But i've heard of another update so we will see what they come up with. Still have me at 15% Scandinavian while 23 has me at 2.1%. So I think they still have some tweaking to do.

Cryfder
05-16-2014, 03:47 PM
This is what I got, and from what I know it seems very accurate.

REGIONAPPROXIMATE AMOUNT
Europe 100%
Great Britain51%
Europe West22%
Europe East17%
Trace Regions 10%
Ireland4%
Finland/Northwest Russia3%
Iberian Peninsula2%
Italy/Greece1%

Cryfder
05-25-2014, 02:36 AM
Ancestry has me at 43% British and 21% Europe West. Meanwhile 23andMe has me in speculative 48% German and 16% British. All the calculators at Gedmatch have me as German. So for me Ancestry is the one that does'nt line up for me. But i've heard of another update so we will see what they come up with. Still have me at 15% Scandinavian while 23 has me at 2.1%. So I think they still have some tweaking to do.I have the same issue. All the gedmatch have me as more German than British.

MitchellSince1893
05-25-2014, 02:57 AM
I too often show up as Danish or north German on gedmatch admixture tools but genealogically I'm over 80% British and Irish.

I wonder if it's indicative of Angle and Saxon ancestry that came from these areas.

Cryfder
05-28-2014, 03:56 PM
I too often show up as Danish or north German on gedmatch admixture tools but genealogically I'm over 80% British and Irish.

I wonder if it's indicative of Angle and Saxon ancestry that came from these areas.That's what I'm thinking. On gedmatch I get Mixed Germanic, but second is mainly Scotland and British, which makes since. I'm thinking maybe it's the Saxon blood coming through.

Baltimore1937
05-29-2014, 01:09 AM
I have my saliva sample ready to mail back to Utah. I wonder how the results will compare to FTDNA "My Origins". They gave me an unexpected 20% Mediterranean (probably in place of my expected Austrian). Ancestry should break that down further, probably Italy/Greece.

Ron from PA
05-31-2014, 12:57 PM
I have the same issue. All the gedmatch have me as more German than British.

I sent my data to Davidski (Eurogenes) at Gedmatch. Wanted him to pin down my German vs British. His results closely mirrored my 23andMe. Gave me 65% German and 35% British. Which based on paper trail is dead on imo. Also gave me my GPS spot for my DNA which is in Eastern Netherlands on German border.

Baltimore1937
06-07-2014, 02:18 AM
I have my saliva sample ready to mail back to Utah. I wonder how the results will compare to FTDNA "My Origins". They gave me an unexpected 20% Mediterranean (probably in place of my expected Austrian). Ancestry should break that down further, probably Italy/Greece.

I got a message saying they received my sample, and it is now being tested. So now for the long wait.

Cryfder
06-08-2014, 05:45 PM
I got a message saying they received my sample, and it is now being tested. So now for the long wait.It doesn't take that long. I got my results back in about 2 weeks.

Baltimore1937
06-19-2014, 05:06 AM
My Ancestry results are in! I've just barely skimmed over it thus far. I'm firstly interested in my origins percentages. They are quite different from what I got from FTDNA! Here from Ancestry I have 98% European, one percent West Asia, and one percent Asia. Europe is broken down to: Europe West = 33%, Scandinavia = 28%, Ireland = 17%, Great Britain = 14%, and trace (European) results = 6%.

Since my father was 3/4 Norwegian, 28% seems a mite small. The two Asian sources may be from Attilla-the-Hun (heh heh), what with my maternal grandfather's origin in the Austro-Hungary Empire. Notice that there is no Mediterranean % at all! FTDNA gives me 20% southern European (formerly labeled North Mediterranean).;)

Baltimore1937
06-19-2014, 06:59 AM
My Ancestry results are in! I've just barely skimmed over it thus far. I'm firstly interested in my origins percentages. They are quite different from what I got from FTDNA! Here from Ancestry I have 98% European, one percent West Asia, and one percent Asia. Europe is broken down to: Europe West = 33%, Scandinavia = 28%, Ireland = 17%, Great Britain = 14%, and trace (European) results = 6%.

Since my father was 3/4 Norwegian, 28% seems a mite small. The two Asian sources may be from Attilla-the-Hun (heh heh), what with my maternal grandfather's origin in the Austro-Hungary Empire. Notice that there is no Mediterranean % at all! FTDNA gives me 20% southern European (formerly labeled North Mediterranean).;)

Looking at my origins at Ancestry a little more closely, it looks like Attilla-the-Hun is not in my tree. The 6% traces in Europe break down to Iberia = 4%, Italy/Greece = 1%, and Europe East = 1%. West Asia is Caucasus, and Asia is less than 1% South Asia (India, etc).

aarnisotka
06-19-2014, 07:13 AM
Notice that there is no Mediterranean % at all!

I'd reckon the med is under the west european label here.

Baltimore1937
06-19-2014, 11:30 PM
I'd reckon the med is under the west european label here.

Nope. That's not the way it went down. There are increased percentages elsewhere in Europe to take up the slack. Ancestry fine tunes the Med better than does FTDNA. Ancestry shows Iberia separately from Italy/Greece. FTDNA probably used different SNPs or DNA for their results. It's not that one company's results are wrong and the other right. As for my own results, both show a possibility that there was an NPE involved, although only I can be the judge of that. My tree does not allow for maneuver. The other 3 grandparents are "set in stone".

Baltimore1937
06-21-2014, 06:33 AM
Looking at my origins at Ancestry a little more closely, it looks like Attilla-the-Hun is not in my tree. The 6% traces in Europe break down to Iberia = 4%, Italy/Greece = 1%, and Europe East = 1%. West Asia is Caucasus, and Asia is less than 1% South Asia (India, etc).

Assuming no NPE with my maternal grandfather, Italy/Greece may be Balkans, Europe East may be Slavs, Caucasus may be Avars or Alans, and South Asia may be Gypsies (Roma). But I doubt that the 4% Iberian Peninsula was connected to him in Austria. My direct maternal line is not entirely clear during colonial times. There is an opening or blank thread down in NC. Maybe there is a Portuguese connection. If so, that could also include the <1% South Asian, since the Portuguese had colonial outposts in India back then. Hmm...

Baltimore1937
06-23-2014, 03:30 AM
Assuming no NPE with my maternal grandfather, Italy/Greece may be Balkans, Europe East may be Slavs, Caucasus may be Avars or Alans, and South Asia may be Gypsies (Roma). But I doubt that the 4% Iberian Peninsula was connected to him in Austria. My direct maternal line is not entirely clear during colonial times. There is an opening or blank thread down in NC. Maybe there is a Portuguese connection. If so, that could also include the <1% South Asian, since the Portuguese had colonial outposts in India back then. Hmm...

On the other hand, there may have been an NPE that produced my maternal great-grandmother. She had black hair, in a family of dishwater blondes. The illicit male lover of her mother seems to have been of French extraction (I won't go into specific details here).

Baltimore1937
06-25-2014, 02:50 PM
On the other hand, there may have been an NPE that produced my maternal great-grandmother. She had black hair, in a family of dishwater blondes. The illicit male lover of her mother seems to have been of French extraction (I won't go into specific details here).

I guess I'd better retract that statement. I just found a whole bunch of matches at Ancestry for the Puckett line. They are weak DNA matches, but then they are many generations back there. Daniel Boone is also included in a couple or so.:)

Anglo-Celtic DC
09-24-2014, 04:34 PM
I am personally a bit suspicious of the current AncestryDNA calculators for European ancestry, at least, as it has nearly the direct opposite percentages for me of "Europe West" versus Britain & Ireland. 23andme & FamilyTreeDNA's far larger estimate of the latter (Britain & Ireland) conform much more to my known paper trail as well as known (general) family history. I have certainly not traced all lines of my family back to the first generation, but of those I have, over 95% are from Britain and Ireland (I have found one French and one Swiss ancestor.) (In various Eurogenes tests my results line up pretty clearly with the reference samples of Southwest England and Ireland.)

Erik
09-24-2014, 05:21 PM
I am personally a bit suspicious of the current AncestryDNA calculators for European ancestry, at least, as it has nearly the direct opposite percentages for me of "Europe West" versus Britain & Ireland. 23andme & FamilyTreeDNA's far larger estimate of the latter (Britain & Ireland) conform much more to my known paper trail as well as known (general) family history. I have certainly not traced all lines of my family back to the first generation, but of those I have, over 95% are from Britain and Ireland (I have found one French and one Swiss ancestor.) (In various Eurogenes tests my results line up pretty clearly with the reference samples of Southwest England and Ireland.)
I agree! It underestimated Europe West and overestimated Britain and Iberia.

shazou
09-25-2014, 04:37 AM
Here is my ethnicity estimate. I just got the results today:

http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y315/shazou927/AncestryDNA/shazouAncestryDNA_zps8ccd84af.jpg~original

jeanL
10-19-2014, 04:52 AM
I have a question about AncestryDNA, in their estimate they have me as:

Great Britain 9%
Range:0-20%

This is a non-Trace region, that is, is a main region. Yet on 23andme I have a mere 1.9% Northern European and 0.7% British and Irish. I have no known English/Irish or anything of the like ancestry. My known ancestry is Southern European(Spain and Italy), some very distant Norman blood via the early colonizers of the Canary Islands, and Southern French blood.

Erik
10-19-2014, 12:34 PM
I have a question about AncestryDNA, in their estimate they have me as:

Great Britain 9%
Range:0-20%

This is a non-Trace region, that is, is a main region. Yet on 23andme I have a mere 1.9% Northern European and 0.7% British and Irish. I have no known English/Irish or anything of the like ancestry. My known ancestry is Southern European(Spain and Italy), some very distant Norman blood via the early colonizers of the Canary Islands, and Southern French blood.

It's known to mix up British and West/Central European blood.

Wulf Warrior
10-19-2014, 06:19 PM
I'm still waiting for this to come to the UK :(.

As soon as it's available, I'll be buying it.

Baltimore1937
12-06-2014, 10:19 AM
My latest (partial) view of my ethnic breakdown is that the 4% Iberian and 1% Italy-Greece may have come from a female servant attached to a Dutch family who immigrated from the Netherlands to Pennsylvania way back in colonial times. She may have been an illegitimate daughter of a Spanish officer in the Spanish Netherlands. Spain ruled over Sicily and southern Italy for a period in history back then. I'm hallucinating of course. But there may be something to it. A new match at Ancestry looks to have the same trace Iberian and I-G that I have. And she is in the same genealogical line.

Another trace, "<1%" South Asian, could be connected to early Virginia. The British brought in people from India to the West Indies for sugarcane plantation work. They probably also brought some of them up to Virgina for plantation work or as household servants. They were free people of color, and not slaves. I have two vague maternal lines from colonial times that are not verified as to their surnames, including my direct maternal line. Hmm...

Baltimore1937
12-06-2014, 04:08 PM
I don't know how to do that - putting up my map. But mine has 9 regions all together: 4 main ones in western Europe, and then 5 trace regions. I suspect the trace Eastern Europe and Caucasus are connected to my Austrian-born maternal grandfather. The Iberia and Italy-Greece traces now apparently come from the colonial-originating line that includes Quakers. I already mentioned my latest view about my South Asia trace. My Irish region seems unusually strong (17%). But Ancestry includes Welsh and Scotch Celtic with that. Then the other 3 European regions wrap it all up.

Erik
12-06-2014, 05:45 PM
I don't know how to do that - putting up my map. But mine has 9 regions all together: 4 main ones in western Europe, and then 5 trace regions. I suspect the trace Eastern Europe and Caucasus are connected to my Austrian-born maternal grandfather. The Iberia and Italy-Greece traces now apparently come from the colonial-originating line that includes Quakers. I already mentioned my latest view about my South Asia trace. My Irish region seems unusually strong (17%). But Ancestry includes Welsh and Scotch Celtic with that. Then the other 3 European regions wrap it all up.

Just attach an image to your post and you can post it here

Baltimore1937
12-07-2014, 02:04 AM
3134

Did this upload?

I'm not good at computers. This map is a screen shot from earlier.

Neacal
12-08-2014, 09:07 PM
Here are my results, does anyone have any thoughts?
http://i.imgur.com/meyKKiQ.png

The top three are consistent with my known background. I don't have any Irish ancestry, but my mother is primarily Scottish so it's understandable that there's some degree of overlap. The rest were somewhat surprising, but I suppose the Scandinavian and Eastern Euro are connected to my British ancestry and the others to my Spanish ancestry. I found the Jewish category interesting, as I score less than 1% Ashkenazi with 23andMe. Because of my Iberian ancestry, I think it could be Sephardic but I'm not really certain at this point.

http://i.imgur.com/ujnRAb5.png

The North African almost certainly comes from my Spanish (more specifically Canarian ancestry). I'm not sure about where the Senegalese would have come from or if it legitimate or merely "noise".

http://i.imgur.com/RlfLccx.png
Pretty self explanatory and significant with other results I have. I don't know any specifics and I wasn't even aware of any Native ancestry before I tested, but it was definitely a cool discovery!

Gray Fox
12-08-2014, 10:43 PM
My latest (partial) view of my ethnic breakdown is that the 4% Iberian and 1% Italy-Greece may have come from a female servant attached to a Dutch family who immigrated from the Netherlands to Pennsylvania way back in colonial times. She may have been an illegitimate daughter of a Spanish officer in the Spanish Netherlands. Spain ruled over Sicily and southern Italy for a period in history back then. I'm hallucinating of course. But there may be something to it. A new match at Ancestry looks to have the same trace Iberian and I-G that I have. And she is in the same genealogical line.

Another trace, "<1%" South Asian, could be connected to early Virginia. The British brought in people from India to the West Indies for sugarcane plantation work. They probably also brought some of them up to Virgina for plantation work or as household servants. They were free people of color, and not slaves. I have two vague maternal lines from colonial times that are not verified as to their surnames, including my direct maternal line. Hmm...

I was of the assumption that all people of wholly west Euro descent will show some degree of ancestral west/southwest Asian?

Baltimore1937
12-08-2014, 11:56 PM
I'm now inclined to view my "<1%" South Asian as Gypsy/Romany, given the historical record of Gypsies being transported to Virginia as convicts in colonial times, from England and Scotland. There are a few possible sources in my maternal branch, even including my direct maternal ancestress if I erred in her surname.

jeanL
12-09-2014, 02:03 AM
H
The North African almost certainly comes from my Spanish (more specifically Canarian ancestry). I'm not sure about where the Senegalese would have come from or if it legitimate or merely "noise".


Interesting? How much Canary Islander ancestry do you have? My paternal grandmother has 7/16 Great-Great Grandparents born in the Canary Islands, the other ones I haven't traced them back to the Canary Islands, but a lot of them have common Canarian surnames. Your Senegal <1% is likely noise. I haven't tested my grandmother with Ancestry, but I bet she would probably score ~7-15% North African, because that's how she scores in different calculators. Surprisingly she also scored 5% Native American as per 23andme, of which I inherited a good chunk, I'm about 3.6% Native American per 23andme. This are her 23andme results, if you are interested:

https://www.23andme.com/published/ancestry/composition/d9f4e0cdbb39d545/032eb6d9c74bd69f/

Neacal
12-09-2014, 02:56 AM
Interesting? How much Canary Islander ancestry do you have? My paternal grandmother has 7/16 Great-Great Grandparents born in the Canary Islands, the other ones I haven't traced them back to the Canary Islands, but a lot of them have common Canarian surnames. Your Senegal <1% is likely noise. I haven't tested my grandmother with Ancestry, but I bet she would probably score ~7-15% North African, because that's how she scores in different calculators. Surprisingly she also scored 5% Native American as per 23andme, of which I inherited a good chunk, I'm about 3.6% Native American per 23andme. This are her 23andme results, if you are interested:

https://www.23andme.com/published/ancestry/composition/d9f4e0cdbb39d545/032eb6d9c74bd69f/

Thanks! I'm 1/4 Canarian, my Grandfather was from Tenerife. It was really cool to see your grandmother's 23andMe results. Do you have any theories regarding the Amerindian ancestry? It's interesting that we both showed up with unexpected Native ancestry when so many people on 23andme complain about not finding any.

jeanL
12-09-2014, 03:57 AM
Thanks! I'm 1/4 Canarian, my Grandfather was from Tenerife. It was really cool to see your grandmother's 23andMe results. Do you have any theories regarding the Amerindian ancestry? It's interesting that we both showed up with unexpected Native ancestry when so many people on 23andme complain about not finding any.

Cool, my grandmother's maternal grandmother was also from Tenerife, more specifically from Santa Cruz de Tenerife. She also had a great-grandmother from Las Palmas de Gran Canaria. I have no idea how she got the Native, but I'm inclined to believe that a person of Spanish-Native ancestry from Florida is probably responsible for it, but I haven't been able to trace it yet though.

rod
01-19-2015, 01:33 AM
Here are 3 generations of Ethnicity Estimates from AncestryDNA (I'm the old guy in the upper left)
3438

Bleuteufel
10-10-2015, 06:08 PM
I finally did Ancestry DNA.... Interesting like TribeCode and FTDNA my mostly North German and Latvian European ancestry is read by Ancestry as almost all Eastern Europe, Scandinavia, GB/Ireland with little or none Europe West.

My results:

Europe:
Europe East 35%
Scandinavia 7%
Great Britain 5%
Trace Regions
Ireland 5%
Finland / NW Russia 1%
Europe West <1%

Africa:
Cameroon / Congo 14%
Benin / Togo 13%
Mali 8%
Trace Regions
Ivory Coast Ghana 3%
Senegal 3%
Nigeria 2%
Africa Southeastern Bantu 2%
Africa South-Central Hunter-Gatherers <1%

Other:
Trace Regions
Polynesia <1%

Bleuteufel
10-11-2015, 04:01 AM
I generally prefer my 23andme results over the others (AncestryDNA, FtDNA, and TribeCode), but I do like that Ancestry provides ranges. The minimum range I get for Europe East is 25% which is pretty good I think as I have a Latvian grandparent.

For Comparison if I group my results I get quite different results from all 4 companies. I am 1/4 Northwest European, 1/4 Northeast/East European and 1/2 African American.


populations 23andme Ancestry FtDNA Tribe Code
African 46.1%, 46%, 48%, 44.44%,

Scandinavia 6.2%, 7%, 35%, 8.47%,

East Euro+NE 20.7%, 36%, 13%, 9.66%,

Brit/Ireland 0.7%, 10%, 5%, 23.5%,

West Europe 12.7% (Ger), less 1 %, 0%, 8.19%

WFG80
12-26-2015, 07:41 AM
Europe 100%
European Jewish 33%
Europe West 30%
Finland/Northwest Russia 19%
Ireland 8%
Scandinavia 6%
Trace Regions 4%
Iberian Peninsula 2%
Europe East 1%
Italy/Greece < 1%

Sikeliot
12-26-2015, 04:37 PM
The North African almost certainly comes from my Spanish (more specifically Canarian ancestry). I'm not sure about where the Senegalese would have come from or if it legitimate or merely "noise".

Slaves brought to the Canary Islands from Senegambia (just like to Madeira and Cape Verde).

AJL
01-20-2016, 04:34 PM
Thoughts or your own results are very welcome :)

I just got mine in:

European Jewish 45%
Ireland 33%
Europe West 10%
Italy/Greece 4%
Iberian Peninsula 3%
Great Britain 2%
Caucasus 1%
Scandinavia 1%
Europe East < 1%

Ancestry gives a very similar average to other tests yet some of the individual regions are a little higher or lower than expected. But overall not bad.

I also wish there was more breakdown in Europe West.

shazou
04-30-2016, 03:03 AM
I found this interesting:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4grhB7bZhA

crossover
05-01-2016, 08:54 PM
my grandpa's results
9114

my grandpa's uncle's results
9115

Dimanto
05-05-2016, 09:32 PM
http://i65.tinypic.com/qn1i7a.png

marinesaxon
05-10-2016, 12:18 PM
Here are my AncestryDNA results. I received much higher Mediterranean percentages on GEDMatch and DNA.land- but the British remained about the same.

9213

ADW_1981
05-10-2016, 12:37 PM
I keep getting that ad on Youtube with the guy who thinks he was Scottish because he scored no "German" on AncestryDNA, but scored Great Britain (and about 27%Scandinavian). Well, it doesn't actually look like there is a German category here....

ArmandoR1b
05-10-2016, 02:37 PM
I keep getting that ad on Youtube with the guy who thinks he was Scottish because he scored no "German" on AncestryDNA, but scored Great Britain (and about 27%Scandinavian). Well, it doesn't actually look like there is a German category here....
It's included in the general category of Europe West.

This is the description of Europe West


Primarily located in: Belgium, France, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein

Also found in: England, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Czech Republic

The Europe West region is a broad expanse stretching from Amsterdam's sea-level metropolis to the majestic peaks of the Alps. Geographically dominated by France in the west and Germany in the east, it includes several nations with distinct cultural identities. From the boisterous beer gardens of Munich to the sun-soaked vineyards of Bordeaux and the alpine dairy farms of Switzerland, it is a region of charming cultural diversity.

Tjada
05-20-2016, 05:52 PM
*Deleted*

Tjada
05-20-2016, 05:53 PM
And my results are in;

Pacific Islander 65%
Melanesian 39%
Polynesian 26%

&

Asia East 35%


9407

blinketyblink
05-21-2016, 01:25 PM
Europe 99%
Ireland 43%
Great Britain 20%
Scandinavia 17%
Italy/Greece 12%
Trace Regions 7%
West Asia < 1%
Trace Regions < 1%
Middle East < 1%
Show all regions

Goodman
06-12-2016, 03:46 PM
Hi,
I've just got my AncestryDNA results so I thought I'd share them. Funny thing for me is that there's a bit more Ireland than Great Britain but I live in the N.W. of England so I suppose this is to be expected. Also I have 8% Scandinavia and this result towers above my 23andMe result for that region in which I get 0.6% and 0.4% in Speculative and Standard modes respectively.

EUROPE 99%

Ireland 46%
Great Britain 35%
Scandinavia 8%

Trace Regions 10%:

Finland/Northwest Russia 3%
European Jewish 2%
Europe East 2%
Italy/Greece 1%
Iberian Peninsula < 1%
Europe West < 1%
West Asia 1%

Trace Regions 1%:

Caucasus < 1%
Middle East < 1%

AJL
06-12-2016, 04:51 PM
Hi,
I've just got my AncestryDNA results so I thought I'd share them. Funny thing for me is that there's a bit more Ireland than Great Britain but I live in the N.W. of England so I suppose this is to be expected.

I think there are two things to note in this regard:

(1) For Ancestry, "Ireland" appears to refer more broadly to insular Celtic origins rather than origins precisely from Ireland. "Scandinavia" can possibly encompass the Netherlands, northern Germany, or even Anglo-Saxon ancestry; and

(2) Ancestry was not available outside the US until recently. As such I suspect it relies heavily on self-reporting of Americans. Many Americans tend to overstate their degree of Irish ancestry for complex reasons going back to ambivalence about English ancestry since the War of Independence, and later involving a sort of "one-drop rule" which treated Irish as minorities. On a 19th-century American census, it's quite common to see someone who is largely English but 1/8th or even 1/16th Irish report their ethnicity as "Irish." Americans also seem entirely to have forgotten about Welsh as an ancestry, for the most part, though many Americans have some Welsh ancestry dating back as far as the 1620s.

loisrp
06-13-2016, 05:27 PM
I think there are two things to note in this regard:

(1) For Ancestry, "Ireland" appears to refer more broadly to insular Celtic origins rather than origins precisely from Ireland. "Scandinavia" can possibly encompass the Netherlands, northern Germany, or even Anglo-Saxon ancestry; and

(2) Ancestry was not available outside the US until recently. As such I suspect it relies heavily on self-reporting of Americans. Many Americans tend to overstate their degree of Irish ancestry for complex reasons going back to ambivalence about English ancestry since the War of Independence, and later involving a sort of "one-drop rule" which treated Irish as minorities. On a 19th-century American census, it's quite common to see someone who is largely English but 1/8th or even 1/16th Irish report their ethnicity as "Irish." Americans also seem entirely to have forgotten about Welsh as an ancestry, for the most part, though many Americans have some Welsh ancestry dating back as far as the 1620s.

Ancestry relies on reference populations and other methodologies, not self-reporting of Americans. Read more about it here:
http://thegeneticgenealogist.com/2013/09/12/ancestrydna-launches-new-ethnicity-estimate/

As for Welsh ancestry, I would be curious to know where the Welsh went in America and Canada.
So far as I know, I have only one known Welsh ancestor, who was born around 1566, and I don't see any sign of Welsh ancestry popping up in autosomal matches. As for the Irish self-identification, I've seen that myself in the Canadian census, but I attributed it in part to the idea that only the father's ancestry mattered, not the mother's.

AJL
06-13-2016, 06:25 PM
So far as I know, I have only one known Welsh ancestor

It is not wise to generalize about populations based on one's personal family tree.

In the early wave, Welsh Puritans were fairly well represented and you can find Welsh families in the Massachusetts Colony
and other early colonies, and prominent among Americans (John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and J.P. Morgan spring to mind). There's even a town called "Wales" in Massachusetts.

In the next wave Welsh people went mainly to Pennsylvania, which was first called "New Wales" (other place names such as "Bryn Mawr" attest to their presence), and to the South, where they were often lumped into the category of Ulster Scots (http://www.genealogytoday.com/articles/reader.mv?ID=681). Some of these arrived as convicts exiled to the Virginia Colony. Southern Welsh-descended people include Jefferson Davis and General Lee.

There were also later waves who came to the US as coal miners (https://www.amazon.com/Welsh-Americans-History-Assimilation-Coalfields/dp/0807832200/188-4816906-0144326?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0).

Not many came to Canada. Hamilton, Ont., used to have a stadium named Ivor Wynne (the Welsh spelling of the personal name is "Ifor").

Nobody is saying that the Welsh are ancestors of more than a small percentage of Americans, but the converse appears true: it seems likely more Americans have some Welsh ancestry than identify as such (http://www.genealogytoday.com/articles/reader.mv?ID=681).

It's also interesting to note that African Americans (e.g. Tracy Morgan, Colin Powell, etc.) have a high proportion of Welsh surnames. Possibly, Pennsylvania Welsh Quakers were involved in freeing them, and they took their surname in gratitude, though there might be other reasons for this phenomenon, such as slaveholding Welsh Americans in the South.

loisrp
06-13-2016, 06:33 PM
I should clarify - because I've found only one Welsh ancestor does not mean I think I've found them all. I have huge swathes of untouched family forest to explore after the last 220 years or so. From the examples provided, it may be that Welsh ancestry dates to a time which is out of memory for most Americans.
As a related example, I did find a Cornish ancestor by paper trail from the 1600s, but I have no links to this person in any DNA match's family tree on Ancestry (Samuel Penhallow), which is not surprising because no autosomal trace would likely remain at this point and/or few people have comprehensive trees going back to the 1600s.
In my case, I have some lines of colonial American ancestry but it was not immediately discoverable because all relevant ancestors on those lines for the past 200-300 years have identified as Canadian or Newfoundlander (the stay in the 13 original colonies was interrupted).

Kiln
08-08-2016, 05:51 PM
Is it just me or is the ancestry ethnicity estimate really quite terrible?

My ancestry is nearly entirely from the British Isles while having one German/English great grandmother and one Dutch/German great grandmother.

Many other calculators correctly identify this.

Ancestry on the other hand...

52% Central Euro
19% Irish
11% Great Britain
11% Southern Euro

Much too central euro shifted.

leonardo
08-08-2016, 07:21 PM
As for Welsh ancestry, I would be curious to know where the Welsh went in America and Canada.
So far as I know, I have only one known Welsh ancestor, who was born around 1566, and I don't see any sign of Welsh ancestry popping up in autosomal matches.
I am only 1/16 Welsh ancestry, but I am getting matches on Ancestry DNA for my Welsh ancestry. My Welsh ancestors settled in western Pennsylvania. My matches seem to be from PA, for the most part.

Eochaidh
08-08-2016, 08:01 PM
As for Welsh ancestry, I would be curious to know where the Welsh went in America and Canada.
So far as I know, I have only one known Welsh ancestor, who was born around 1566, and I don't see any sign of Welsh ancestry popping up in autosomal matches.
Many of the Quakers who settled in Pennsylvania were from Wales. They stayed in their own communities. The 'Welsh Suburbs' stretch west from Philadelphia along the old Lincoln Highway.

Titane
08-18-2016, 12:59 PM
Just got my results last night. Ancestry is ludicrous. Well, no, the map is fine, just the numbers are way off.
I am 99% French, but not a word about it. 11034
It gives me 55% Great Britain! On 23andMe I am 33% FrenchandGerman and 15% BritishandIrish

From the map, I can see why. They seem to have annexed the North West of France and Belgium to Great Britain...

cvolt
08-18-2016, 01:16 PM
My percentages are way off, map is ok I guess. For someone who is pretty much guaranteed to score "Western European", none. 80% Great Britain is laughable. I guess there's just a problem distinguishing Northwestern areas. Thankfully Gedmatch and DNA Land give me more accurate results.

11035

Africa North- 0-2%
Great Britain- 56-100%
Scandinavia- 0-23%
Finland/ Northwest Russia- 0-10%
Ireland- 0-12%
Iberian Peninsula- 0-9%

Jessie
08-18-2016, 01:53 PM
Might as well add mine so that people can compare. I'm 100% Irish and Ancestry does a good job of picking that up. :)

http://i64.tinypic.com/xmohp2.jpg

Mofrad
08-18-2016, 01:54 PM
3 of my grandparents were born in 1. Iran 2. Quebec & 3. Sicily, the 4th is a mixed Italian/Polish/French

That makes me more than 1/4 French (1/4+1/16) yet French is misrepresented on all Autosomal tests Ive taken FTDA,23andMe, Geno2 & Ancestry and attributes that part of my ancestry to Great Britain and Scandanvia, or "western Europe" without clarity.

here is my Ancestry.com result:

11036

rms2
08-18-2016, 03:47 PM
I find Ancestry's ethnicity estimate to be pretty accurate for me, much better than FTDNA's Family Finder (and I like FTDNA, don't get me wrong).

11039

Amerijoe
08-18-2016, 04:23 PM
My mAunt results.

11041

Here are mine.

11042

Would it be presumptive to say my paternal line is the major contributor to my British line?

rms2
08-19-2016, 12:03 AM
My mAunt results.

11041

Here are mine.

11042

Would it be presumptive to say my paternal line is the major contributor to my British line?

It would seem so, but you really need to have a look at your mom's and dad's results. Your mom might have gotten a quite different suite of autosomal SNPs than her sister did.

Amerijoe
08-19-2016, 03:35 AM
It would seem so, but you really need to have a look at your mom's and dad's results. Your mom might have gotten a quite different suite of autosomal SNPs than her sister did.

rms2, DNA from my Mom is not possible and I have no knowledge of dad or his national breakdown. When I run my Aunt through Eurogenes K13 & 15, she is Irish across the board. Mine is West Scottish up to 4 pop., where it picks up a quarter of Southwest English. We are both originally from Scotland.

At present awaiting results for Y-Elite. Be interesting to see what additional info will be extracted for the R-Y15121 clade from the results.

JFWinstone
09-05-2016, 09:47 PM
11420
Mum's ethnicity estimates

11421
My ethnicity estimates (had to close the trace regions otherwise it wouldn't all fit in one screenshot :/ )

L1983
09-06-2016, 01:43 PM
Got mine! Can't believe I apparently have only trace amounts of GB lol

CelticGerman
10-25-2016, 08:32 PM
My result

12348

sktibo
10-25-2016, 09:20 PM
My result

12348

A German who actually scored Europe west as the highest category... Never thought I'd see the day! Very cool

firemonkey
10-25-2016, 10:09 PM
My result

12349

jpb
11-19-2016, 03:25 PM
Got my 94 y/o Great Grandmother's results in a couple months ago.
Her mom was fully English, with a little bit of French, German, and Scots-Irish (Colonial).
Her dad was born in Leipzig, Saxony, Germany, with all grandparents being born there.
So she is half Colonial and half German.

Her results were:
100% Europe
40% Great Britain
18% Scandinavia
14% Europe West
13% Europe East
7% Ireland
7% Italy/Greece
<1% Iberian Peninsula

We just found her father, who she'd never known through DNA, so at first the Europe East was a surprise, but now knowing where her father was from, it makes sense. The Scandinavia just seems a little high for her.

Asimakidis
12-07-2016, 09:24 AM
http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12935&stc=1

L1983
12-08-2016, 03:47 PM
I thought I'd posted my families results, although may be on another thread. Added mother and father's dna land also.

Jutlander
01-05-2017, 11:00 AM
What part of Ireland Jesse?

jeanL
02-24-2017, 07:37 PM
Thanks! I'm 1/4 Canarian, my Grandfather was from Tenerife. It was really cool to see your grandmother's 23andMe results. Do you have any theories regarding the Amerindian ancestry? It's interesting that we both showed up with unexpected Native ancestry when so many people on 23andme complain about not finding any.

I actually recently tested my paternal grandmother's DNA through Ancestry and unlike what I thought she only got 5% North African, not 7-15%.

Main Regions:

14206

Main+Trace Regions:

14207

NewAlbion
02-28-2017, 06:03 AM
http://rsmg.pbsrc.com/albums/v336/naudiz/Screenshot_20170228-004149_zpsgie8bx8i.png?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

Honestly, I don't find these results helpful. The Irish category is too broad e.g. includes Scotland and Wales etc.. and the Scandinavian and Finnish or Fennoscandian should be lumped in with the British (I have no direct scandinavian ancestry); I also think it is overestimating my non-euro ancestry with statistical noise under 1% in various categories.

Dna.land has my non west-Eurasian ancestry as 1.3% oceanian which probably came from the British empire.

I find Gedmatch more useful. According to AncestryDNA ulster Scots score about 51.9% 'Irish' on average and Eurogenes Eutest has my single population at Orcadian and Dodecad V3 with Argyll Scotland. Eurogenes does not have an Argyll-Bhute sample and Dodecad suffers from calculator effect.I think I have more in common with the Scots but tests like AncestryDNA won't tell you that shit. I don't think I would cluster with Orcadians, closest, but maybe Glaswegians or Argyll-Bhute but these tests are too limited currently.

AFAIK, my ancestry is Irish, Scottish, English and German/French.

NewAlbion
02-28-2017, 06:42 AM
rms2, DNA from my Mom is not possible and I have no knowledge of dad or his national breakdown. When I run my Aunt through Eurogenes K13 & 15, she is Irish across the board. Mine is West Scottish up to 4 pop., where it picks up a quarter of Southwest English. We are both originally from Scotland.

At present awaiting results for Y-Elite. Be interesting to see what additional info will be extracted for the R-Y15121 clade from the results.

I dunno why so many people , of European ancestry, use eurogenes K13 and Eutest K15. K13 is meant for Euros with significant Asian ancestry and K15 for people of European ancestry with significant Amerindian components. Since, I am 99% West Eurasian the regular Eutest is more accurate. K13 had me as Irish and K15 as English which suggests the middle population of Scottish. I would have your aunt do the regular Eutest not K13 or K15. Eutest has my single closest population at Orcadian but my mixed mode as :Orcadian+Scottish+Cornish+Cornish.

I don't take those results literally, though, because Eurogenes has no Kent or Argyll+Bhute samples. I suspect my genetic distance would be closer with Argyll Scotland and Kent England samples.

Jessie
02-28-2017, 07:01 AM
What part of Ireland Jesse?

Not sure if you meant me? Anyway my paternal ancestry is all from Co Sligo/North Roscommon and maternal is from North Tipperary.

Jessie
02-28-2017, 07:11 AM
http://rsmg.pbsrc.com/albums/v336/naudiz/Screenshot_20170228-004149_zpsgie8bx8i.png?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

Honestly, I don't find these results helpful. The Irish category is too broad e.g. includes Scotland and Wales etc.. and the Scandinavian and Finnish or Fennoscandian should be lumped in with the British (I have no direct scandinavian ancestry); I also think it is overestimating my non-euro ancestry with statistical noise under 1% in various categories.

Dna.land has my non west-Eurasian ancestry as 1.3% oceanian which probably came from the British empire.

I find Gedmatch more useful. According to AncestryDNA ulster Scots score about 51.9% 'Irish' on average and Eurogenes Eutest has my single population at Orcadian and Dodecad V3 with Argyll Scotland. Eurogenes does not have an Argyll-Bhute sample and Dodecad suffers from calculator effect.I think I have more in common with the Scots but tests like AncestryDNA won't tell you that shit. I don't think I would cluster with Orcadians, closest, but maybe Glaswegians or Argyll-Bhute but these tests are too limited currently.

AFAIK, my ancestry is Irish, Scottish, English and German/French.

All the categories are broad. I actually think Ancestry should have just used a British & Irish category like 23andMe instead of Ireland. People take it too literally and I've lost track of the amount of people with no known Irish ancestry think they have a chunk of Irish ancestry they never knew about. :) Also people appear to think that Ancestry separates British & Irish when they don't. The Ireland category to me is just similar to British & Irish on 23andMe. A lot of these categories blend together or have overlap including the Great Britain category. People think that because they get a low amount of Great Britain they are less British when this category is very similar to Europe West. English people usually get a combination of Ireland and/or Great Britain / Europe West, and smaller amounts of Scandinavian and some Southern European.

Jessie
02-28-2017, 07:17 AM
I dunno why so many people , of European ancestry, use eurogenes K13 and Eutest K15. K13 is meant for Euros with significant Asian ancestry and K15 for people of European ancestry with significant Amerindian components. Since, I am 99% West Eurasian the regular Eutest is more accurate. K13 had me as Irish and K15 as English which suggests the middle population of Scottish. I would have your aunt do the regular Eutest not K13 or K15. Eutest has my single closest population at Orcadian but my mixed mode as :Orcadian+Scottish+Cornish+Cornish.

I don't take those results literally, though, because Eurogenes has no Kent or Argyll+Bhute samples. I suspect my genetic distance would be closer with Argyll Scotland and Kent England samples.

Both the Eurogenes are specifically made for Europeans that's why they are called Eurogenes. IMO they are the best calculators on Gedmatch.

sktibo
02-28-2017, 09:07 AM
All the categories are broad. I actually think Ancestry should have just used a British & Irish category like 23andMe instead of Ireland. People take it too literally and I've lost track of the amount of people with no known Irish ancestry think they have a chunk of Irish ancestry they never knew about. :) Also people appear to think that Ancestry separates British & Irish when they don't. The Ireland category to me is just similar to British & Irish on 23andMe. A lot of these categories blend together or have overlap including the Great Britain category. People think that because they get a low amount of Great Britain they are less British when this category is very similar to Europe West. English people usually get a combination of Ireland and/or Great Britain / Europe West, and smaller amounts of Scandinavian and some Southern European.

These are some excellent points but I must add my own 2 cents to this. I think it does separate Britain and Ireland to some degree, or at least, in some cases. I got 52.3% B&I on 23andMe, and 73% Great Britain along with 6% Irish on ancestry (2% Europe west, so that doubtfully counts towards this). And so I'm somewhat confident the Ireland category isn't that similar to British and Irish on 23andMe.. I'd say it really is a mix of Ancestry's GB along with Ireland. When I got my ancestry test I thought it must have been incorrect for sure, as the Irish was much lower than I expected. According to Living DNA, I got 1.9% SW Scotland, and 4.8% Aberdeenshire, which are the two regions I have which cluster most closely with Ireland. They total 6.7%, close enough to give me some reason to believe they can differentiate "Irish" genetics from British. Of course, I'm only one example, so I'm not making these statements with complete certainty!

@NewAlbion
Your DNA test results scream "Scottish" around half Irish with the rest GB and Scandinavia. You even have a trace of Finland, which seems to happen a lot to Scottish people. I'm going to guess you have lots of Scottish ancestry, some of which is from the west coast? I don't think those results are worthless at all.

Jessie
02-28-2017, 10:33 AM
These are some excellent points but I must add my own 2 cents to this. I think it does separate Britain and Ireland to some degree, or at least, in some cases. I got 52.3% B&I on 23andMe, and 73% Great Britain along with 6% Irish on ancestry (2% Europe west, so that doubtfully counts towards this). And so I'm somewhat confident the Ireland category isn't that similar to British and Irish on 23andMe.. I'd say it really is a mix of Ancestry's GB along with Ireland. When I got my ancestry test I thought it must have been incorrect for sure, as the Irish was much lower than I expected. According to Living DNA, I got 1.9% SW Scotland, and 4.8% Aberdeenshire, which are the two regions I have which cluster most closely with Ireland. They total 6.7%, close enough to give me some reason to believe they can differentiate "Irish" genetics from British. Of course, I'm only one example, so I'm not making these statements with complete certainty!

@NewAlbion
Your DNA test results scream "Scottish" around half Irish with the rest GB and Scandinavia. You even have a trace of Finland, which seems to happen a lot to Scottish people. I'm going to guess you have lots of Scottish ancestry, some of which is from the west coast? I don't think those results are worthless at all.

The Ireland category on Ancestry is centred on Ireland just like the British & Irish on 23andMe. Because all these categories have so much overlap someone might get eg 40% Ireland and a sibling might get 40% Great Britain and very little Ireland. Also one might get high Scandinavian and Europe West and one might get no Scandinavian and Great Britain and Europe West etc. I've seen this quite a few times. What is obvious is that an Irish person will get a high Ireland result on Ancestry and also high British & Irish on 23andMe. They are very similar IMO. Someone of more mixed European ancestry can get different percentages of Ireland, Great Britain, Scandinavian etc (I'm including English in this). Look at a sibling's results and also a parent to compare. I'm sure there are people on here that have results like this on dna testing.

What is obvious to me is that what they call Ireland on Ancestry or British & Irish on 23andMe is most likely something like Rathlin or Bell Beaker. If you look at the Cassidy report Rathlin shares most haplotype input into Scotland, Ireland and Wales. The Great Britain on Ancestry is a more mixed signal and I've heard Ancestry were thinking of getting rid of it. If you look at enough results of these tests you can see that people like the South East English and Dutch get a very similar Ancestry Comp and also I put Northern French in that category. I would say that all the Benelux areas and Eastern England have a very similar genetic makeup going by these tests anyway.

These are my Ancestry results compared to 23andMe.

Ireland 91%
Europe East 3%
Europe West 2%
Great Britain 2%
European Jewish 1%
Scandinavia 1%

23andMe
94% British & Irish
2.6% French & German
3.4% Broadly Northwest European
<0.1% Broadly European

NewAlbion
02-28-2017, 11:00 AM
Both the Eurogenes are specifically made for Europeans that's why they are called Eurogenes. IMO they are the best calculators on Gedmatch.

Eurogenes K15 should be more useful for New Worlders, of Euro descent, with significant Amerindian ancestry. Though, some Europeans may find it accurate. I happen to find the regular Eutest more accurate and other people may find the same. I have no amerindian ancestry.

People of different ancestry may kind K13, K15, or Eutest v1 to be more accurate it is not a one size fits all thing.

Also, Eutest K15 suffers from calculator effect in regards to the Orcadian population sample.

sktibo
02-28-2017, 11:17 AM
The Ireland category on Ancestry is centred on Ireland just like the British & Irish on 23andMe. Because all these categories have so much overlap someone might get eg 40% Ireland and a sibling might get 40% Great Britain and very little Ireland. Also one might get high Scandinavian and Europe West and one might get no Scandinavian and Great Britain and Europe West etc. I've seen this quite a few times. What is obvious is that an Irish person will get a high Ireland result on Ancestry and also high British & Irish on 23andMe. They are very similar IMO. Someone of more mixed European ancestry can get different percentages of Ireland, Great Britain, Scandinavian etc (I'm including English in this). Look at a sibling's results and also a parent to compare. I'm sure there are people on here that have results like this on dna testing.

What is obvious to me is that what they call Ireland on Ancestry or British & Irish on 23andMe is most likely something like Rathlin or Bell Beaker. If you look at the Cassidy report Rathlin shares most haplotype input into Scotland, Ireland and Wales. The Great Britain on Ancestry is a more mixed signal and I've heard Ancestry were thinking of getting rid of it. If you look at enough results of these tests you can see that people like the South East English and Dutch get a very similar Ancestry Comp and also I put Northern French in that category. I would say that all the Benelux areas and Eastern England have a very similar genetic makeup going by these tests anyway.

These are my Ancestry results compared to 23andMe.

Ireland 91%
Europe East 3%
Europe West 2%
Great Britain 2%
European Jewish 1%
Scandinavia 1%

23andMe
94% British & Irish
2.6% French & German
3.4% Broadly Northwest European
<0.1% Broadly European

Hey Jessie,
I looked up the sample numbers for b and I in 23andme, they list united kingdom for 870, and Ireland for 292. It makes sense that it's close to Ireland on ancestry as it holds all the Irish samples, but I'm betting a good number of English people contribute to this dataset also. IIRC Jean M is one of these UK sample donors. I would love to see what would happen if they split the UK and Irish samples into separate categories, might be interesting. Of course United kingdom isn't really that specific... For all I know it could be a bunch of Scots and north Irish. Although your results from the two companies do indicate a correlation between the two categories, mine appear to indicate the opposite! (6% Ancestry Irish vs 52.3% 23andme British and Irish) one potential explanation is that you have a decent match with all the Irish and UK samples, whereas I don't match many of the Irish, but a large chunk of the UKers.

Jessie
02-28-2017, 11:17 AM
Eurogenes K15 should be more useful for New Worlders, of Euro descent, with significant Amerindian ancestry. Though, some Europeans may find it accurate. I happen to find the regular Eutest more accurate and other people may find the same. I have no amerindian ancestry.

People of different ancestry may kind K13, K15, or Eutest v1 to be more accurate it is not a one size fits all thing.

Also, Eutest K15 suffers from calculator effect in regards to the Orcadian population sample.

The Amerindian that a lot of Euros get is just ANE. It's a test for Europeans. The EUtest is just an older version of Eurogenes K15.

Jessie
02-28-2017, 11:26 AM
Hey Jessie,
I looked up the sample numbers for b and I in 23andme, they list united kingdom for 870, and Ireland for 292. It makes sense that it's close to Ireland on ancestry as it holds all the Irish samples, but I'm betting a good number of English people contribute to this dataset also. IIRC Jean M is one of these UK sample donors. I would love to see what would happen if they split the UK and Irish samples into separate categories, might be interesting. Of course United kingdom isn't really that specific... For all I know it could be a bunch of Scots and north Irish. Although your results from the two companies do indicate a correlation between the two categories, mine appear to indicate the opposite! (6% Ancestry Irish vs 52.3% 23andme British and Irish) one potential explanation is that you have a decent match with all the Irish and UK samples, whereas I don't match many of the Irish, but a large chunk of the UKers.

It just reaches a maximum in the Irish and this is why I have some qualms about what having an Irish sample will do to LivingDNA. On 23andMe all Irish people that I have seen get 90% and over of the British & Irish category. Irish on all these tests get very bland results. Just as an example on 23andMe this is what my brother gets.

96.8% British & Irish
3.0% Broadly Northwestern European
0.1% Broadly European
0.1% Unassigned

And that is not an uncommon result either. I have someone on there with 98.1% British & Irish and I'm sure I've got someone on there higher but I share with quite a lot so would have to look more closely.

sktibo
02-28-2017, 11:52 AM
It just reaches a maximum in the Irish and this is why I have some qualms about what having an Irish sample will do to LivingDNA. On 23andMe all Irish people that I have seen get 90% and over of the British & Irish category. Irish on all these tests get very bland results. Just as an example on 23andMe this is what my brother gets.

96.8% British & Irish
3.0% Broadly Northwestern European
0.1% Broadly European
0.1% Unassigned

And that is not an uncommon result either. I have someone on there with 98.1% British & Irish and I'm sure I've got someone on there higher but I share with quite a lot so would have to look more closely.

Ah OK I think I see your point now. Maybe the Irish dataset could bring issues to living DNA, but I bet it's exciting for you Irish folks to be able to see your ethnicity in such high definition... At least it's more exciting than 91% Ireland

NewAlbion
02-28-2017, 12:07 PM
These are some excellent points but I must add my own 2 cents to this. I think it does separate Britain and Ireland to some degree, or at least, in some cases. I got 52.3% B&I on 23andMe, and 73% Great Britain along with 6% Irish on ancestry (2% Europe west, so that doubtfully counts towards this). And so I'm somewhat confident the Ireland category isn't that similar to British and Irish on 23andMe.. I'd say it really is a mix of Ancestry's GB along with Ireland. When I got my ancestry test I thought it must have been incorrect for sure, as the Irish was much lower than I expected. According to Living DNA, I got 1.9% SW Scotland, and 4.8% Aberdeenshire, which are the two regions I have which cluster most closely with Ireland. They total 6.7%, close enough to give me some reason to believe they can differentiate "Irish" genetics from British. Of course, I'm only one example, so I'm not making these statements with complete certainty!

You seem to know more about this than me but AncestryDNA's 'Irish' category seems to be a generic indigenous British isles 'celtic' category , excluding Cornwall, while the 'British' category is probably close to pure anglo-saxon that is why the have a seperate Europe West category.



@NewAlbion
Your DNA test results scream "Scottish" around half Irish with the rest GB and Scandinavia. You even have a trace of Finland, which seems to happen a lot to Scottish people. I'm going to guess you have lots of Scottish ancestry, some of which is from the west coast? I don't think those results are worthless at all.

What I meant by worthless is that Irish, British, and Scandinavian is not an ethnicity while Scottish is. AFAIK, my ancestry in my paternal line is Scottish, from Donegal (grandfather) and Scottish/English(grandmother).I mean my father's first name is Gordon and that is Scottish .My maternal line Irish, though not far from the Pale, so probably isn't pure Irish because of earlier plantations and German/French from Alsace-Lorraine but Mary Queen of Scots was half French with her house of Guise in Lorraine France.

The fact of the matter is mainland Scots are halfway genetically between the Native Irish and Welsh, on the one hand, and the English/Germanics on the otherhand. I think some Scots try to deny they have Irish blood because of the Ulster plantation. I know of one lady from Glasgow, with all four ancestors , from Scotland , who scored 60% Irish.

Gedmatch says I am very close to Orcadians and Argyll-Bhute but I think that is because of lack if sample size I don't think I am Orcadian probably more like Argyll or Glasgow.

I was having an identity crisis because I have an Irish Norman name but I think that is just because the Irish have been oppressed historically. As far as the Finnish that could come from a stray Prussian, there were Germans in Ulster, or from a viking who had some Finnish.

I am actually a New Yorker, American, but I am probably what Americans call Scotch-Irish.

Anyway, moral of the story is that the Scots and the Irish are closely related but political motivations , like the Ulster plantation, cause some Scots to absurdly proclaim they have no Irish blood, whatsoever.

P.S. I think my German blood is being picked up as 'saxon' or 'British' because it is related to the Saxon tribe the Swaefas from Swaffham England.

Jessie
02-28-2017, 12:17 PM
It just reaches a maximum in the Irish and this is why I have some qualms about what having an Irish sample will do to LivingDNA. On 23andMe all Irish people that I have seen get 90% and over of the British & Irish category. Irish on all these tests get very bland results. Just as an example on 23andMe this is what my brother gets.

96.8% British & Irish
3.0% Broadly Northwestern European
0.1% Broadly European
0.1% Unassigned

And that is not an uncommon result either. I have someone on there with 98.1% British & Irish and I'm sure I've got someone on there higher but I share with quite a lot so would have to look more closely.

Yes there is one with 98.2% but that the highest B&I.

Jessie
02-28-2017, 12:23 PM
You seem to know more about this than me but AncestryDNA's 'Irish' category seems to be a generic indigenous British isles 'celtic' category , excluding Cornwall, while the 'British' category is probably close to pure anglo-saxon that is why the have a seperate Europe West category.



What I meant by worthless is that Irish, British, and Scandinavian is not an ethnicity while Scottish is. AFAIK, my ancestry in my paternal line is Scottish, from Donegal (grandfather) and Scottish/English(grandmother).I mean my father's first name is Gordon and that is Scottish .My maternal line Irish, though not far from the Pale, so probably isn't pure Irish because of earlier plantations and German/French from Alsace-Lorraine but Mary Queen of Scots was half French with her house of Guise in Lorraine France.

The fact of the matter is mainland Scots are halfway genetically between the Native Irish and Welsh, on the one hand, and English/Germanic on the otherhand. I think some Scots try to deny they have Irish blood because of the Ulster plantation. I know of one lady from Glasgow, with all four ancestors , from Scotland , who scored 60% Irish.

Gedmatch says I am very close to Orcadians and Argyll-Bhute but I think that is because of lack if sample size I don't think I am Orcadian probably more like Argyll or Glasgow.

I was having an identity crisis because I have an Irish Norman name but I think that is just because the Irish have been oppressed historically. As far as the Finnish that could come from a stray Prussian, there were Germans in Ulster, or from a viking who had some Finnish.

I am actually a New Yorker, American, but I am probably what Americans call Scotch-Irish.

Anyway, moral of the story is that the Scots and the Irish are closely related but political motivations , like the Ulster plantation, cause some Scots to absurdly proclaim they have no Irish blood, whatsoever.

P.S. I think my German blood is being picked up as 'saxon' or 'British' because it is related to the Saxon tribe the Swaefas from Swaffham England.

I think it is very possibly for a Scots person to get 60% Ireland and not have any Irish blood. I'm sure there are many Scots who get higher in that category. Interesting that you have ancestry from Donegal that you call Scottish or am I reading that wrong? Yes I agree with a lot of what you posted above about the different categories.

Amerijoe
02-28-2017, 01:49 PM
I dunno why so many people , of European ancestry, use eurogenes K13 and Eutest K15. K13 is meant for Euros with significant Asian ancestry and K15 for people of European ancestry with significant Amerindian components. Since, I am 99% West Eurasian the regular Eutest is more accurate. K13 had me as Irish and K15 as English which suggests the middle population of Scottish. I would have your aunt do the regular Eutest not K13 or K15. Eutest has my single closest population at Orcadian but my mixed mode as :Orcadian+Scottish+Cornish+Cornish.

I don't take those results literally, though, because Eurogenes has no Kent or Argyll+Bhute samples. I suspect my genetic distance would be closer with Argyll Scotland and Kent England samples.

It's great that the EU test works out best for you. Others not so much. Here is my aunt's single pop. 1 IE @ 3.687173 and
4 pop. 1 IE + IE + IE + IE @ 3.687173. Now this is what I would classify as worthless in regards to my search. :\

NewAlbion
02-28-2017, 02:23 PM
I think it is very possibly for a Scots person to get 60% Ireland and not have any Irish blood. I'm sure there are many Scots who get higher in that category. Interesting that you have ancestry from Donegal that you call Scottish or am I reading that wrong? Yes I agree with a lot of what you posted above about the different categories.

Yeah, there are Scots from East Donegal, as well as native Irish. My point was, about the 60%, that regardless of family history, genetically speaking all Scots have at least some Gaelic/Irish blood. Whether, one calls that Ghaidlig or Gaelic does not matter from a technical genetic point of view. From a genetic point of view mainland Scots are half Irish and Brythonic and half Anglo-Saxon and Viking. When you get into genealogy/history that is when politics and religion start to warp reality or objective science. Objective science does not differentiate between Gaelic and Ghaidlig blood but humans do. Objectively, ethnically I am Scots-American.

That the Scots and Irish are closely related is so trivial that even a dog on the street can see it (hyperbole).

Jessie
02-28-2017, 03:09 PM
Ah OK I think I see your point now. Maybe the Irish dataset could bring issues to living DNA, but I bet it's exciting for you Irish folks to be able to see your ethnicity in such high definition... At least it's more exciting than 91% Ireland

I'm hoping that with the Irish DNA Atlas they can also break down what countries in Continental Europe that Irish dna has contributions from like they did with the PoBI samples.

Amerijoe
02-28-2017, 05:16 PM
Here is my aunt @ Ancestry
Ireland 67%
Great Britain 16%
Scandinavia 10%
Europe West 7%

Aunt @ 23andMe
Northwestern European 100%
British & Irish 90.6%
French & German 3.0%
Scandinavian 0.4%
Broadly Northwestern European 6.0%

Me @ Ancestry
Europe 100%
Ireland 49%
Great Britain 47%
European Jewish 1%
Italy/Greece < 1%
Europe West < 1%
Finland/Northwest Russia < 1%

Me @ 23andMe
Northwestern European 98.2%
British & Irish 90.8%
Scandinavian 1.4%
Broadly Northwestern European 6.0%
Southern European 0.8%
Italian 0.4%
Broadly Southern European 0.3%
Broadly European 1.0%

Ancestry has my aunt @ 10% Scandinavian. My ancestry results has no Scandinavian. 23andMe has my aunt 's Scandinavian 0.4% and me @ 1.4%. I recommend DNA for dummies. It's finally starting to clear! B)

sktibo
02-28-2017, 05:33 PM
You seem to know more about this than me but AncestryDNA's 'Irish' category seems to be a generic indigenous British isles 'celtic' category , excluding Cornwall, while the 'British' category is probably close to pure anglo-saxon that is why the have a seperate Europe West category.



What I meant by worthless is that Irish, British, and Scandinavian is not an ethnicity while Scottish is. AFAIK, my ancestry in my paternal line is Scottish, from Donegal (grandfather) and Scottish/English(grandmother).I mean my father's first name is Gordon and that is Scottish .My maternal line Irish, though not far from the Pale, so probably isn't pure Irish because of earlier plantations and German/French from Alsace-Lorraine but Mary Queen of Scots was half French with her house of Guise in Lorraine France.

The fact of the matter is mainland Scots are halfway genetically between the Native Irish and Welsh, on the one hand, and the English/Germanics on the otherhand. I think some Scots try to deny they have Irish blood because of the Ulster plantation. I know of one lady from Glasgow, with all four ancestors , from Scotland , who scored 60% Irish.

Gedmatch says I am very close to Orcadians and Argyll-Bhute but I think that is because of lack if sample size I don't think I am Orcadian probably more like Argyll or Glasgow.


In my experience you can't trust gedmatch oracles. Mine usually tell me I'm Irish, I'm not, or if I am it's miniscule. Great Britain isn't an anglo Saxon category on ancestry, if it were I would score German and south east English ony other tests. I think I mentioned I'm 73% GB on Ancestry, and according to living DNA, nearly all of my ethnicity scores outside of the large red English cluster, (see POBI map) while still being connected to England .. most is Scottish borders. Also in the AncestryDNA write up for it it mentions it's not entirely an Anglo-Saxon cluster, and that it is likely mostly comprised of iron age groups. Irish isn't "Celtic" there is no single "Celtic" group. Even south and north Wales appear somewhat distinct from one another. Irish correlates to "Gael" ethnically speaking.

You might find it interesting that on gedmatch there actually is a pure anglo Saxon, hinxton 2. Apparently it clusters with Scandinavian people. Thus, true unmixed Saxon would likely show up as Scandinavia

Scarlet Ibis
03-01-2017, 12:00 AM
Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Everyone is reminded to review Anthrogenica's ToS http://www.anthrogenica.com/faq.php

MischievousRaven
03-02-2017, 02:58 AM
Here are my results :)

Europe 98%:
Scandinavia 30%
Great Britain 29%
Europe West 16%
Italy/Greece 9%
Europe East 7%
Iberian Peninsula 4%
Finland/Northwest Russia 1%
European Jewish 1%
Ireland <1%

Africa <1%:
Africa North <1%

West Asia <1%:
Middle East <1%

Calas
03-03-2017, 02:36 AM
You might find it interesting that on gedmatch there actually is a pure anglo Saxon, hinxton 2. Apparently it clusters with Scandinavian people. Thus, true unmixed Saxon would likely show up as Scandinavia

Isn't Hixton 2 rather Finnish not Scandinavian?


The Anglo-Saxon individual is the biggest surprise. His admixtures do not match any modern population. If we look only at the the West European, East European and Mediterranean admixtures, he appears to lie somewhere in between East Germans and Poles, probably close to the modern population of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern or Brandenburg. However, he also has over 2% of East Asian admixture and virtually no West Asian or Southwest Asian admixture, which places him closer to modern Finnish people (as reported in the paper) or Northwest Russians. Another oddity is his nearly 9% of African admixture (see below), which shouldn't be there at all.


In addition the Anglo-Saxon period samples appear to share a stronger older component with Finnish (1000GP FIN) individuals

Kiln
03-03-2017, 03:08 AM
Lets revisit Ancestry since I understand more of my ancestry.

As far as I can tell paper trailwise, my recent ethnic make up is Ulster Scott, English, and German in roughly equal proportion. Maybe leaning slightly lower on the German side of things.

http://i.imgur.com/J1ZCFnZ.jpg

While ancestry identifies a large "celtic" component, I still believe it overstates my continental component.

I still don't like any of the commercial company calculators, but what's a mutt to argue?

sktibo
03-03-2017, 03:41 AM
Isn't Hixton 2 rather Finnish not Scandinavian?

I got this info from http://eurogenes.blogspot.ca/2014/10/hinxton-ancient-genomes-roundup.html

"For instance, plotting the f3-statistics of Hinxton2, which actually looks like the genome of someone straight off the boat from the Jutland Peninsula, against those of Hinxtons 1 and 4, we see that the former shares most drift with the Danes. Moreover, the Danes, Swedes and Germans, all Germanic-speakers of course, deviate strongly on both graphs from the lines of slope that run from the Erzya to the Irish. The reason they deviate from these lines is because they don't share enough drift with Hinxtons 1 and 4 compared to the other reference populations from Northwestern Europe, especially the Irish."

I got this from http://www.eupedia.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-30542.html
It's a forum post from eupedia discussing the A/S individual with the Iron Age Briton in terms of what look to be gedmatch oracles, using dodecad k12b and dodecad k12. It says a small component pulls him closer towards the Finnish, not that the sample is representative of Finnish. The conclusion states that the sample doesn't match any current population, and falls in between Germany and Poland, which is very interesting.

"Conclusion

Of the two Iron Age samples from East England tested by Schiffels et al. (2014), the Celtic Briton individual displays the greatest affinity to modern Belgian, then German, then French people, indicating a probable Belgic/La Tčne or Hallstatt origin.

The Anglo-Saxon genome fits in between the modern populations of northeast Germany and northwest Poland, which may indicate an East Germanic (Gothic ?) origin. This is further corroborated by the fact that this individual possess a substantial percentage (2-5%) of East Asian and Siberian admixture, present in a proportion that is consistent with an introgression of Hunnic (Mongol) genes."

So I may be misunderstanding Davidski's analysis, I got the impression that it was closest to the Danish. Macciamo's interpretation was very interesting, and I hadn't read that one before. If I am correctly understanding that one analysis found it to be closest to Denmark, and the other, in between NE Germany and NW Poland, then wouldn't that average out around the Danish Islands or the south tip of Sweden?

sktibo
03-03-2017, 03:59 AM
Lets revisit Ancestry since I understand more of my ancestry.

As far as I can tell paper trailwise, my recent ethnic make up is Ulster Scott, English, and German in roughly equal proportion. Maybe leaning slightly lower on the German side of things.

While ancestry identifies a large "celtic" component, I still believe it overstates my continental component.

I still don't like any of the commercial company calculators, but what's a mutt to argue?

Hey Kiln, Europe West and Great Britain on that test are virtually the same thing. My aunt and I both took this test and the scores were:

Aunt: 70 Europe West, 19 Great Britain, 6 Ireland
Me: 2 Europe West, 73 Great Britain, 6 Ireland

We're both more English than anything else - in fact she has even less continental ancestry than I do - I actually have some German, along with a tiny bit of Dutch. She only has some French and Native American outside of Britain. She's about 80% England, Scotland, and Wales... most of which is England but Scotland isn't too far off that number.

Europe West, GB, Ireland, and Iberia all contain some "Celtic" Component... because it's not an ethnicity it's a cultural term.

Ancestry write up for GB says:
"The history of Great Britain is often told in terms of the invasions with different groups of invaders displacing the native population. The Romans, Anglo-Saxon, Vikings and Normans have all left their mark on Great Britain both politically and culturally. However, the story of Great Britain is far more complex than the traditional view of invaders displacing existing populations. In fact modern studies of British people tend to suggest the earliest populations continued to exist and adapt and absorb the new arrivals."

Write up for Iberia says:
"A number of Iberian civilizations had developed by the Bronze Age and were trading with other Mediterranean communities. Celtic tribes arrived from central Europe and settled in the northern and western parts of the peninsula, intermixing with the local populations."

Europe West:
"Although “Celtic” is often associated with the people of Ireland and Scotland, the Celts emerged as a unique culture in central Europe more than 2,500 years ago. From an epicenter in what is now Austria, they spread and settled in the areas of today’s western Germany and eastern France, generally near the Rhine and Danube Rivers. By 450 B.C., their influence and Celtic languages had spread across most of western Europe, including the areas that are now France, the Iberian Peninsula and the British Isles. The Celts either conquered or assimilated the previous inhabitants of the area, and almost all languages and cultural and religious customs were replaced. The only exception, most scholars believe, is the Basque language, which managed to persist in the Pyrenees of southern France and northern Spain."

and Ireland doesn't even need to be mentioned because as we all know it's super "Celtic". The point I'm making here is that Celtic culture is mentioned as leaving it's mark on all of these Ancestry DNA regions, and despite these I often see people referring to Ireland as the "Celtic" marker on Ancestry's forums and other places. If I am misunderstanding your post, I do apologize, but I am assuming you are referring to the "large celtic component" as your Irish component?

To me, your DNA estimate looks like that of an English person, with a surprisingly large chunk of Iberia thrown in. I wholly agree with you that it's overstating your continental component, but it's a very screwy test when it comes to GB and EW. Any idea where that Iberia might have come from? You're only Ulster Scots, English, and German?

Kiln
03-03-2017, 05:22 AM
Hey Kiln, Europe West and Great Britain on that test are virtually the same thing. My aunt and I both took this test and the scores were:

Aunt: 70 Europe West, 19 Great Britain, 6 Ireland
Me: 2 Europe West, 73 Great Britain, 6 Ireland

We're both more English than anything else - in fact she has even less continental ancestry than I do - I actually have some German, along with a tiny bit of Dutch. She only has some French and Native American outside of Britain. She's about 80% England, Scotland, and Wales... most of which is England but Scotland isn't too far off that number.

Europe West, GB, Ireland, and Iberia all contain some "Celtic" Component... because it's not an ethnicity it's a cultural term.

Ancestry write up for GB says:
"The history of Great Britain is often told in terms of the invasions with different groups of invaders displacing the native population. The Romans, Anglo-Saxon, Vikings and Normans have all left their mark on Great Britain both politically and culturally. However, the story of Great Britain is far more complex than the traditional view of invaders displacing existing populations. In fact modern studies of British people tend to suggest the earliest populations continued to exist and adapt and absorb the new arrivals."

Write up for Iberia says:
"A number of Iberian civilizations had developed by the Bronze Age and were trading with other Mediterranean communities. Celtic tribes arrived from central Europe and settled in the northern and western parts of the peninsula, intermixing with the local populations."

Europe West:
"Although “Celtic” is often associated with the people of Ireland and Scotland, the Celts emerged as a unique culture in central Europe more than 2,500 years ago. From an epicenter in what is now Austria, they spread and settled in the areas of today’s western Germany and eastern France, generally near the Rhine and Danube Rivers. By 450 B.C., their influence and Celtic languages had spread across most of western Europe, including the areas that are now France, the Iberian Peninsula and the British Isles. The Celts either conquered or assimilated the previous inhabitants of the area, and almost all languages and cultural and religious customs were replaced. The only exception, most scholars believe, is the Basque language, which managed to persist in the Pyrenees of southern France and northern Spain."

and Ireland doesn't even need to be mentioned because as we all know it's super "Celtic". The point I'm making here is that Celtic culture is mentioned as leaving it's mark on all of these Ancestry DNA regions, and despite these I often see people referring to Ireland as the "Celtic" marker on Ancestry's forums and other places. If I am misunderstanding your post, I do apologize, but I am assuming you are referring to the "large celtic component" as your Irish component?

To me, your DNA estimate looks like that of an English person, with a surprisingly large chunk of Iberia thrown in. I wholly agree with you that it's overstating your continental component, but it's a very screwy test when it comes to GB and EW. Any idea where that Iberia might have come from? You're only Ulster Scots, English, and German?

I meant Celtic as simply an offhand term for the people of Scotland & Ireland.

As far as the Iberian, I have no idea.

I find nothing in the information I have but I don't have all of the information. I have rather average South Eastern USA colonial heritage. Its unlikely but not impossible.

I do think "English" is a good fit if one has to choose even if the similar admixture was reached in slightly different ways.

Other calculators show even more Iberian:

http://i.imgur.com/n6BEbqZ.png

sktibo
03-03-2017, 06:14 AM
I meant Celtic as simply an offhand term for the people of Scotland & Ireland.

As far as the Iberian, I have no idea.

I find nothing in the information I have but I don't have all of the information. I have rather average South Eastern USA colonial heritage. Its unlikely but not impossible.

I do think "English" is a good fit if one has to choose even if the similar admixture was reached in slightly different ways.

Other calculators show even more Iberian:

Sometimes French shows up as Iberian I think... and I notice you have consistent native american similar to myself. Did you get a native american score on FTDNA? every test I take shows it in my case, and yours looks to be similar. If it does show up on every test it's a pretty darn sure thing you have it. And if you have it, there's a chance it could also include some French ancestry, as French people and native americans have always seen to have gotten along quite well, although why is something I've not looked into. Basically, I think there's a chance your Iberian score could be representative of French, especially if you have confirmed Native American ancestry... which it looks like you might

Kiln
03-03-2017, 06:34 AM
Sometimes French shows up as Iberian I think... and I notice you have consistent native american similar to myself. Did you get a native american score on FTDNA? every test I take shows it in my case, and yours looks to be similar. If it does show up on every test it's a pretty darn sure thing you have it. And if you have it, there's a chance it could also include some French ancestry, as French people and native americans have always seen to have gotten along quite well, although why is something I've not looked into. Basically, I think there's a chance your Iberian score could be representative of French, especially if you have confirmed Native American ancestry... which it looks like you might

No NA on FTDNA just 99% euro.

The Scotts-Irish were regarded as undesirable & war like. As such they were pushed to the far edges of the colonies and used as a buffer between the natives and colonists. It's understood there was a degree of intermixing.

I have legend of native ancestry on both sides of family but nothing that amounts to tangible proof.

For the Iberian,

Unless my paternal grandmother's mother, for which I have no information on, was southern french or spanish I have nothing else. It's not impossible a cajun queen snuck in there given the close proximity to Northeastern TX.

sktibo
03-03-2017, 06:37 AM
No NA on FTDNA just 99% euro.

The Scotts-Irish were regarded as undesirable & war like. As such they were pushed to the far edges of the colonies and used as a buffer between the natives and colonists. It's understood there was a degree of intermixing.

I have legend of native ancestry on both sides of family but nothing that amounts to tangible proof.

Unless my paternal grandmother's mother, for which I have no information on, was southern french or spanish I have nothing else. It's not impossible a cajun queen snuck in there given the close proximity to Northeastern TX.

What's the 1% non-european? is your paternal grandmother's mother a straight brick wall without any info or documentation whatsoever, including family stories?

Kiln
03-03-2017, 06:44 AM
What's the 1% non-european? is your paternal grandmother's mother a straight brick wall without any info or documentation whatsoever, including family stories?

FTDNA estimate doesn't say, just 99% euro.

Grandmother is still alive, but I've never had much contact.

It's not out of the realm of possibility to ask her should I get the opportunity.

My search on ancestry was a complete brick wall. Her maiden name is Scotts-Irish however.

sktibo
03-03-2017, 07:15 AM
FTDNA estimate doesn't say, just 99% euro.

Grandmother is still alive, but I've never had much contact.

It's not out of the realm of possibility to ask her should I get the opportunity.

My search on ancestry was a complete brick wall. Her maiden name is Scotts-Irish however.

If you get a hold of her I'm interested in what you find out, or what she has to say about it.

NewAlbion
03-08-2017, 03:49 AM
In my experience you can't trust gedmatch oracles. Mine usually tell me I'm Irish, I'm not, or if I am it's miniscule. Great Britain isn't an anglo Saxon category on ancestry, if it were I would score German and south east English ony other tests. I think I mentioned I'm 73% GB on Ancestry, and according to living DNA, nearly all of my ethnicity scores outside of the large red English cluster, (see POBI map) while still being connected to England .. most is Scottish borders. Also in the AncestryDNA write up for it it mentions it's not entirely an Anglo-Saxon cluster, and that it is likely mostly comprised of iron age groups. Irish isn't "Celtic" there is no single "Celtic" group. Even south and north Wales appear somewhat distinct from one another. Irish correlates to "Gael" ethnically speaking.

You might find it interesting that on gedmatch there actually is a pure anglo Saxon, hinxton 2. Apparently it clusters with Scandinavian people. Thus, true unmixed Saxon would likely show up as Scandinavia

I dunno that the Great Britain category would be mostly Iron age because the Irish sample should be about half Iron age and half upper paleolithic. Although, I guess the Great Britain samples, if they were mostly Iron age, could be differentiated by absorbtion of Romans, Normans and Anglo-Saxons. However, that then begs the question how ancestrydna differentiates between Europe West and GB ? Also, Wales would be Iron age, mesolithic/neolithic, and Téviec so it should be easy to differentiate Wales, from Ireland, theoretically but AncestryDNA does not do it. I dunno that AncestryDNA's 'Irish' category simply correlates to 'Gael' ethnically speaking because it includes Wales.

Anyway, thanks for helping me figure out my results were Scottish. As an American with a hiberno-norman name figuring that out was non-trivial.

NewAlbion
03-08-2017, 04:06 AM
As far as Kiln is concerned, I think ancestrydna might overestimate non-european ancestry. Anything 1% and below could be statistical noise ( especially below 1%) AncestryDNA only has me as 97% European but wegenes has me as 99.23 % European and dna.land has me at 98% European and like 99% West Eurasian with about 1.3% native oceanian. Although, like 1% of the West Eurasian is ambiguous (I am using rough estimates, here, so if they don't add up exactly don't kill me LOL) :

"West Eurasian is a very general category containing Arab/Egyptian, Ashkenazi/Levantine, Central Asian, Northeast European, South Asian, South European, Northwest European, Southwestern European and Central Indoeuropean"

I figure the Oceanian is from the British empire , days, around Australia and New Zealand.

The only common thread, of all these tests, as far as non-european ancestry , is the native oceanian which is so miniscule as not to affect my identity.

Anyway, kiln I wouldn't sweat that 1% if I was you.

NewAlbion
03-08-2017, 04:23 AM
The Scotts-Irish were regarded as undesirable & war like.

Yeah, and that warlike tradition came in handy --especially during WWI and WWII e.g. general MacArthur etc...You do realize that both Sktibo and I are Scotch-Irish, right ? The scotch-Irish includes people from northern England, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The northern English feel closer to Scotland than East Anglia.

sktibo
03-08-2017, 04:43 AM
I dunno that the Great Britain category would be mostly Iron age because the Irish sample should be about half Iron age and half upper paleolithic. Although, I guess the Great Britain samples, if they were mostly Iron age, could be differentiated by absorbtion of Romans, Normans and Anglo-Saxons. However, that then begs the question how ancestrydna differentiates between Europe West and GB ? Also, Wales would be Iron age, mesolithic/neolithic, and Téviec so it should be easy to differentiate Wales, from Ireland, theoretically but AncestryDNA does not do it.

Anyway, thanks for helping me figure out my results were Scottish. As an American with a hiberno-norman name figuring that out was non-trivial.

Ancestry DNA can't appear to differentiate GB between Europe West, it constantly mixes the two up and they said a long time ago that they planned on merging them into one cluster. When I said "Iron Age" I meant the population of Britain prior to Roman occupation, which would be a mixture of many different waves of settlers. I'm not sure what the Irish sample is, aside from Irish of course. Earlier on, the POBI project planned to incorporate Ireland as it's own cluster into their analysis of the British Regions. This indicates that Ireland is fairly distinct from the British populations... Western Scotland excluded. As for Wales, there's one guy who posted his and his father's results on youtube. He is Welsh and Irish, and his Father is what he called pure North Welsh. He got 50% GB and 50% Ireland, and his father got 30% Ireland and I think almost all the rest GB. Of course lots of English get Ancestry's Irish component as well. So, the Iron Age population of England and the Iron Age population of Ireland were probably fairly different, although I'd bet still closer than the mainland populations to one another.

Yeah, your results could be Scotch Irish too, if so, your people probably mixed a fair bit with the native Irish when they arrived

Kiln
03-08-2017, 06:40 AM
Yeah, and that warlike tradition came in handy --especially during WWI and WWII e.g. general MacArthur etc...You do realize that both Sktibo and I are Scotch-Irish, right ? The scotch-Irish includes people from northern England, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The northern English feel closer to Scotland than East Anglia.

You do realize you are talking to a Stewart? :)

Read the rest of the posts, much of my ancestry and cultural base comes from the Scotch-Irish.

I was simply referring to the attitude of the era.

(Jim Webb's "Born Fighting" is an excellent book on how the Scotch-Irish made the USA what it is today)

Jessie
03-08-2017, 07:17 AM
Ancestry DNA can't appear to differentiate GB between Europe West, it constantly mixes the two up and they said a long time ago that they planned on merging them into one cluster. When I said "Iron Age" I meant the population of Britain prior to Roman occupation, which would be a mixture of many different waves of settlers. I'm not sure what the Irish sample is, aside from Irish of course. Earlier on, the POBI project planned to incorporate Ireland as it's own cluster into their analysis of the British Regions. This indicates that Ireland is fairly distinct from the British populations... Western Scotland excluded. As for Wales, there's one guy who posted his and his father's results on youtube. He is Welsh and Irish, and his Father is what he called pure North Welsh. He got 50% GB and 50% Ireland, and his father got 30% Ireland and I think almost all the rest GB. Of course lots of English get Ancestry's Irish component as well. So, the Iron Age population of England and the Iron Age population of Ireland were probably fairly different, although I'd bet still closer than the mainland populations to one another.

Yeah, your results could be Scotch Irish too, if so, your people probably mixed a fair bit with the native Irish when they arrived

I think Ireland measures "Insular Celtic". It is most dominant in Ireland, Scotland and Wales so yes Gaelic and Brythonic. I think the best definition is something like Rathlin Bell Beaker. I'm not really sure if "Celtic" can be measured genetically as we don't even have a genome of someone who was Celtic e.g. Le Tene / Hallstatt. Also what is Celtic? Some people stick to the La Tene / Hallstatt definition but there is a lot of discussion about pre-Celtic being Tumulus / Urnfield / Bell Beaker. I not sure how homogenous the Celts were anyway. In Ireland the majority ydna is L21, in Southern Switzerland / N Italy it is U152 and in the Iberian Peninsular it is DF27.

I don't think that the Ireland cluster in PoBI was distinct from British populations as when they used the Ireland cluster places like the Highlands were 63% of that cluster. Also PoBI is very finescale and if other European populations are added Irish and British cluster together. Just some of my thoughts and observations.

sktibo
03-08-2017, 09:47 AM
I think Ireland measures "Insular Celtic". It is most dominant in Ireland, Scotland and Wales so yes Gaelic and Brythonic. I think the best definition is something like Rathlin Bell Beaker. I'm not really sure if "Celtic" can be measured genetically as we don't even have a genome of someone who was Celtic e.g. Le Tene / Hallstatt. Also what is Celtic? Some people stick to the La Tene / Hallstatt definition but there is a lot of discussion about pre-Celtic being Tumulus / Urnfield / Bell Beaker. I not sure how homogenous the Celts were anyway. In Ireland the majority ydna is L21, in Southern Switzerland / N Italy it is U152 and in the Iberian Peninsular it is DF27.

I don't think that the Ireland cluster in PoBI was distinct from British populations as when they used the Ireland cluster places like the Highlands were 63% of that cluster. Also PoBI is very finescale and if other European populations are added Irish and British cluster together. Just some of my thoughts and observations.

Fair enough, but I don't agree with you in this. I don't think Ireland is representative of "insular Celtic", and I don't think Gaelic and Brythonic people are genetically the same at their core. the highlands being 63% of the old POBI Irish cluster makes complete sense as we all know the highland language originated in Ireland.. I'm surprised it isn't higher. This number is significantly lower in the other parts of Scotland: drops to 45% in SW Scotland, still high as it's along the west coast, 36% for NE Scotland, and 32% for Cumbria and Northumbria. What i observe looking at this is that the further from Ireland, the lower the score.. indicating it's representative of Irish / Gaelic and not "Celtic" or pre-Roman as a whole in the isles. NW Wales got 35% of the Irish cluster, and southwest wales 31. We know there was a lot of contact between the Irish and the Welsh earlier on, which could account for this. Of course, it could be an older genetic connection between the two groups. I find it interesting that these POBI numbers correspond to the only north Welsh AncestryDNA sample I've heard of from north Wales, with 30% Irish. I don't think the Welsh are less "Celtic" than the Irish, just different.... But not so different they won't cluster together if compared to mainland Europe of course. 30-35% is a large amount to share, but 65-70% is a larger difference.

14411

Jessie
03-08-2017, 11:25 AM
Fair enough, but I don't agree with you in this. I don't think Ireland is representative of "insular Celtic", and I don't think Gaelic and Brythonic people are genetically the same at their core. the highlands being 63% of the old POBI Irish cluster makes complete sense as we all know the highland language originated in Ireland.. I'm surprised it isn't higher. This number is significantly lower in the other parts of Scotland: drops to 45% in SW Scotland, still high as it's along the west coast, 36% for NE Scotland, and 32% for Cumbria and Northumbria. What i observe looking at this is that the further from Ireland, the lower the score.. indicating it's representative of Irish / Gaelic and not "Celtic" or pre-Roman as a whole in the isles. NW Wales got 35% of the Irish cluster, and southwest wales 31. We know there was a lot of contact between the Irish and the Welsh earlier on, which could account for this. Of course, it could be an older genetic connection between the two groups. I find it interesting that these POBI numbers correspond to the only north Welsh AncestryDNA sample I've heard of from north Wales, with 30% Irish. I don't think the Welsh are less "Celtic" than the Irish, just different.... But not so different they won't cluster together if compared to mainland Europe of course. 30-35% is a large amount to share, but 65-70% is a larger difference.

14411

I'm basing some of what I've said on the Rathlin haplotype input into populations. The Irish today are very like Rathlin so I think British & Irish (on 23andMe) and Ireland (Ancestry) is measuring something old like Rathlin or similar Bell Beaker types.

Scottish 36.512
Ireland 36.313
Welsh 35.745
Germany/Austria 33.658
French 32.299
English 32.213
Norwegian 31.425
Orcadian 30.072
Tuscan 29.202
Spanish 28.613
Hungarian 28.995
Belorussian 28.418
Polish 26.957
NorthItalian 27.829
Bulgarian 26.21
SouthItalian 26.127
Russian 25.537
Lithuanian 25.067
Greek 24.341
Syrian 23.896
Turkish 23.886
Chuvash 23.865
Basque 23.824

PoBI is very finescale and it would be interesting if they used the PoBI to see what would happen in Ireland. Would Ireland receive some British results? I think it would judging by the results of LivingDNA. Ireland would also show input from British areas, I only received 51% Ireland in my LivingDNA result. Both Britain and Ireland cluster beside each other so it is obvious they have very similar genetics.

Using finescale if you remove enough populations you can tease out differences just like they did between places like Devon and Cornwall but on a European plot those populations will be the same or very similar.

avalon
03-08-2017, 12:58 PM
Just on the differences between modern Irish and Welsh, the key question for me is when and how did the shift to Brythonic occur. It's explaining the language shift between Gaelic and Brythonic that is crucial imo and nobody really seems to know when and how it happened? And was the language shift caused by a genetic change in the British/Welsh population.

I guess we really need ancientDNA but my view would be that Bronze Age Welsh and Bronze Age Irish were likely very similar to each and Rathlin 'like'. So was it something during the later Bronze Age or Iron Age that caused them to split apart genetically or is it just a long period of genetic drift from each other that distinguishes Irish and Welsh, as we know from the PCA in Irish Travellers paper that Welsh and Irish are far apart.

avalon
03-08-2017, 02:56 PM
Jessie and sktibo,

It looks to me like you are more or less in agreement with each other.:)

The Irish component that POBI had in their original analysis was really an ancestral profile, just like the final report had FRA17, GER6, etc, but they stripped out the Irish one in the final paper because they were trying to determine the deep, continental European ancestry of the UK.

What it probably represents, and I think you are both saying this, is a sort of Gaelic Celtic shared ancestry which the Scottish Highlands has a lot of but the Welsh have less of because they have more of a Brythonic Celtic ancestry which may be slightly different in origin, perhaps more Western French/Armorican in origin that didn't impact on Ireland.

sktibo
03-08-2017, 05:02 PM
PoBI is very finescale and it would be interesting if they used the PoBI to see what would happen in Ireland. Would Ireland receive some British results? I think it would judging by the results of LivingDNA. Ireland would also show input from British areas, I only received 51% Ireland in my LivingDNA result. Both Britain and Ireland cluster beside each other so it is obvious they have very similar genetics.

Using finescale if you remove enough populations you can tease out differences just like they did between places like Devon and Cornwall but on a European plot those populations will be the same or very similar.

When it comes to Britain and Ireland, I think it's safe to assume we're always going to be discussing things in terms of finescale. As for the Living DNA results, I don't think we can take the Irish results seriously at this time. IIRC you posted a note that claimed they're currently having trouble with the region due to sample limitations? Another thing to note is that we recently found out they were having problems with their illumina chip. Before we can discuss Living DNA's Ireland category (or any of their results aside from those that line up irrefutably with one's documented ancestry), I think we need to wait and see if they can sort out their technical difficulties.. otherwise our arguments could be built upon an unstable foundation.
I'm assuming the chart you've posted here, listing Scotland at 36.5 and Ireland at 36.3 is a similarity of some kind between Rathlin and modern populations? The first thing I notice about it is that Scotland is first on the list... and Scottish people don't get as high an Irish as the Irish themselves. They do get a huge chunk of Irish from what I've seen (50-60% sometimes higher or lower) but nothing like the 85-100% native Irish seem to consistently get. Going off of the numbers you've posted, it would mean that Scottish people would get around the same amount of Irish Ancestry DNA score that the Irish do, and I don't think that is the case.



Just on the differences between modern Irish and Welsh, the key question for me is when and how did the shift to Brythonic occur. It's explaining the language shift between Gaelic and Brythonic that is crucial imo and nobody really seems to know when and how it happened? And was the language shift caused by a genetic change in the British/Welsh population.

I guess we really need ancientDNA but my view would be that Bronze Age Welsh and Bronze Age Irish were likely very similar to each and Rathlin 'like'. So was it something during the later Bronze Age or Iron Age that caused them to split apart genetically or is it just a long period of genetic drift from each other that distinguishes Irish and Welsh, as we know from the PCA in Irish Travellers paper that Welsh and Irish are far apart.

Looking at the table which includes Irish, North Wales gets 55% of a France 17 Component, SW Wales 51%. I think there was a theory which proposed P-Celtic entered Britain from mainland France, perhaps Armorica. I don't know if this is true, but it would appear to line up with this genetic difference between the Welsh and the Irish.



What it probably represents, and I think you are both saying this, is a sort of Gaelic Celtic shared ancestry which the Scottish Highlands has a lot of but the Welsh have less of because they have more of a Brythonic Celtic ancestry which may be slightly different in origin, perhaps more Western French/Armorican in origin that didn't impact on Ireland.

More or less that's my argument, that the Welsh are distinct from the Irish although they probably still share a good whack of genetics, possibly both from prehistoric influences and later Gaelic raiding and settlement of Wales. Another possibility from what you've proposed is that it could just be that the separation between the two populations eventually resulted in a difference of genetics. I'm not ruling out a continental influence, just saying there are a number of ways two once similar groups could split.
Ultimately, I'm trying to argue against this idea that "Irish" is the sole category which represents "Celtic" or DNA in Britain and Ireland prior to the Germanic Migrations generally speaking. What I do think is that this earlier ancestry can fall into a number of categories, in the case of Britain: Ireland, GB, and Europe West. I agree with the POBI project which indicated a difference between all of the populations outside of the large red English cluster, meaning that these earlier "Celtic" populations were genetically different from one another. I don't think that Irish DNA is the only factor in determining this earlier type of ancestry. I think it represents a specific group of "Celtic" peoples who occupied Ireland and Western Scotland, and from what I can tell, both the early POBI results which included Ireland, and the AncestryDNA results which give the largest percentage of Irish to the Scots give evidence of this.

Note: It is always possible in a debate such as this that I may be misunderstanding my opponent, and I don't wish to put words in their mouth or misquote them! if we actually are in more agreement than I perceive or I am misunderstanding your argument Jessie please let me know! We both appear to have very firm views on this subject (I know I do) but I always appreciate your input whether or not it is in agreement with my own ideas.

Jessie
03-09-2017, 02:42 AM
The Irish appear distinct from the Welsh using finescale but with companies like 23andMe and Ancestry they aren't. The Ireland component on Ancestry is found primarily in Ireland, Wales and Scotland and then England and France. My opinion is that it is "Insular Celtic". If you look at the Great Britain component it is much more mixed and more widespread. Ancestry says this about Great Britain: Primarily located in: England, Scotland, Wales. Also found in: Ireland, France, Germany, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Italy. If you look at Europe West it looks very similar to the Great Britain category. "Insular Celtic" really just means what it says e.g. Irish, Scots and Welsh and I think this is a large part of what is labeled Ireland e.g. less Anglo-Saxon and more ancient in the Isles. In my view "Insular Celtic" is Bell Beaker and pre the Anglo-Saxon invasions and this is why it reaches a maximum in Ireland. I think labeling it "Ireland" might be a bit misleading as I've said previously. Whether it is called "Insular Celtic" or something else I just think it is something more ancient.

Rathlin Island is found right up the top of Northern Ireland so it is not surprising that Scotland might have a slighter higher haplotype sharing 0.199 higher than Ireland. Just as an aside it is interesting that Germany/Austria and France come before England. The chart is showing the modern populations that have from the most to the least haplotype sharing with Rathlin.

I think we are talking about two different things regarding what Ancestry is showing with the Ireland component and the breakdown on the PoBI. Ancestry is showing something less defined than the more finescale results of the PoBI. I hope that makes sense.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R6zMnf3ruOU/Ux3GdiERFdI/AAAAAAAACWE/3dtlYGYgUKY/s1600/_40865313_rathlin_island_map203.gif

sktibo
03-09-2017, 04:31 AM
The Irish appear distinct from the Welsh using finescale but with companies like 23andMe and Ancestry they aren't. The Ireland component on Ancestry is found primarily in Ireland, Wales and Scotland and then England and France. My opinion is that it is "Insular Celtic". If you look at the Great Britain component it is much more mixed and more widespread. Ancestry says this about Great Britain: Primarily located in: England, Scotland, Wales. Also found in: Ireland, France, Germany, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Italy. If you look at Europe West it looks very similar to the Great Britain category. "Insular Celtic" really just means what it says e.g. Irish, Scots and Welsh and I think this is a large part of what is labeled Ireland e.g. less Anglo-Saxon and more ancient in the Isles. In my view "Insular Celtic" is Bell Beaker and pre the Anglo-Saxon invasions and this is why it reaches a maximum in Ireland. I think labeling it "Ireland" might be a bit misleading as I've said previously. Whether it is called "Insular Celtic" or something else I just think it is something more ancient.

Rathlin Island is found right up the top of Northern Ireland so it is not surprising that Scotland might have a slighter higher haplotype sharing 0.199 higher than Ireland. Just as an aside it is interesting that Germany/Austria and France come before England. The chart is showing the modern populations that have from the most to the least haplotype sharing with Rathlin.

I think we are talking about two different things regarding what Ancestry is showing with the Ireland component and the breakdown on the PoBI. Ancestry is showing something less defined than the more finescale results of the PoBI. I hope that makes sense.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R6zMnf3ruOU/Ux3GdiERFdI/AAAAAAAACWE/3dtlYGYgUKY/s1600/_40865313_rathlin_island_map203.gif

Well my friend, I think we may be getting to the point we are going back and fourth about this, and I don't think we'll manage to convince one another as to our opposing points. I'll have one more crack here, because I can be stubborn. Feel free to do the same, of course!

As far as the Scottish and Irish are concerned, I think Ireland is a good fit for calling them "Insular Celtic" as they're both regions where the majority seems get Irish (although that probably isn't always true in the case of Scotland). However, this falls short when we look at the Welsh. From what I've seen they don't come out as mostly Irish on Ancestry. This (https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/03/16/what-does-our-dna-tell-us-about-being-irish/) tells us they average around 31% in that category. I don't think "Great Britain" really encompasses "Welsh" either but it seems to show up for them higher than the Ireland category does. I hope Ancestry adds more regions in the future to differentiate the isles a bit more.
The Ireland category is called Ireland because Ireland is the only source for samples from that region, and the fact that places near it get Irish percentages is indicative that that portion of their DNA is a closer match to these Irish folks than it is to the other regions Ancestry has. It isn't misleading to call it "Ireland" because it is purely Irish. What I mean is, I think it's more likely to be representative of Ancestry's limited sample groups than it is to imply an actual connection.

Therefore, I strongly disagree with your theory that Ireland is representative of all the Celtic people in the Isles on Ancestry's system, and I do not believe that there is evidence to back this up. All I see is plenty of evidence that this is a Goidelic genetic grouping, not one that represents Wales and the fringe areas of England. I also doubt it is high in people from Brittany. [edit: Jessie did post some evidence that suggests Brittany is close to Ireland, so this assumption of mine could well be incorrect]

Jessie
03-09-2017, 04:58 AM
Well my friend, I think we may be getting to the point we are going back and fourth about this, and I don't think we'll manage to convince one another as to our opposing points. I'll have one more crack here, because I can be stubborn. Feel free to do the same, of course!

As far as the Scottish and Irish are concerned, I think Ireland is a good fit for calling them "Insular Celtic" as they're both regions where the majority seems get Irish (although that probably isn't always true in the case of Scotland). However, this falls short when we look at the Welsh. From what I've seen they don't come out as mostly Irish on Ancestry. This (https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/03/16/what-does-our-dna-tell-us-about-being-irish/) tells us they average around 31% in that category. I don't think "Great Britain" really encompasses "Welsh" either but it seems to show up for them higher than the Ireland category does. I hope Ancestry adds more regions in the future to differentiate the isles a bit more.
The Ireland category is called Ireland because Ireland is the only source for samples from that region, and the fact that places near it get Irish percentages is indicative that that portion of their DNA is a closer match to these Irish folks than it is to the other regions Ancestry has. It isn't misleading to call it "Ireland" because it is purely Irish. What I mean is, I think it's more likely to be representative of Ancestry's limited sample groups than it is to imply an actual connection.

Therefore, I strongly disagree with your theory that Ireland is representative of all the Celtic people in the Isles on Ancestry's system, and I do not believe that there is evidence to back this up. All I see is plenty of evidence that this is a Goidelic genetic grouping, not one that represents Wales and the fringe areas of England. I also doubt it is high in people from Brittany.

I'm not really passionate about the topic just pedantic. Welsh might be a combination of French and Irish but I think Ireland is also to a certain degree. I've added more info on the LivingDNA thread and Brittany is also very similar to Ireland according to a finescale study.

It is also interesting if you look at Hinxton 4 from Cambridge who is most similar to present day Irish. Also when looking at the admixture information from the IrishDNA Atlas Ireland, Wales and Scotland look remarkably similar. The differences are most likely due to a certain extent on drift. The North Welsh and South Welsh on the PoBI also show a difference.

https://i.imgsafe.org/da75c985ea.png

I'm not saying that the Ireland component represents all the Celtic people in the Isles but just a very old component. I'm not sure whether you are arguing against something different? The Ireland component is not just Irish even Ancestry states this. Anyway if you have a different view that is fine as well.

sktibo
03-09-2017, 05:43 AM
I'm not really passionate about the topic just pedantic. Welsh might be a combination of French and Irish but I think Ireland is also to a certain degree. I've added more info on the LivingDNA thread and Brittany is also very similar to Ireland according to a finescale study.

It is also interesting if you look at Hinxton 4 from Cambridge who is most similar to present day Irish. Also when looking at the admixture information from the IrishDNA Atlas Ireland, Wales and Scotland look remarkably similar. The differences are most likely due to a certain extent on drift. The North Welsh and South Welsh on the PoBI also show a difference.

https://i.imgsafe.org/da75c985ea.png

I'm not saying that the Ireland component represents all the Celtic people in the Isles but just a very old component. I'm not sure whether you are arguing against something different? The Ireland component is not just Irish even Ancestry states this. Anyway if you have a different view that is fine as well.

What I meant when I said the Ireland component is just Irish:
"Taking the first question, why is the region named Ireland? There are a couple of reasons for this. But the simplest explanation has to do with the reference panel that is used to determine your estimate. The AncestryDNA reference panel is the set of DNA samples, representing individuals from particular regions around the world, to which your DNA is compared to obtain your ethnicity estimate. The individuals in the reference panel used for Ireland have deep roots in Ireland going back several generations." source: https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2017/01/25/ancestrydna-the-irish-connection/
They call it Ireland because that's where all of their reference population individuals come from and have roots in. This is what I meant by "It's only Irish" as in, all of the samples for Ireland category are Irish.

I'm not sure it's fair to say Ireland is the older component, I mean, it could well be, and Wales definitely looks like it has some Irish mixed in... it just doesn't look like it's the primary component for Wales. But how can we know what looks to be the primary Welsh component, the 51-55% previously known as FRA 17, isn't the older one? Regardless, in terms of Ancestry DNA, I do suspect you are correct in that the Ireland component is probably "something older" than the Great Britain component is... possibly because the GB category is representing a mixture of quite a few things.
Yes, Hinxton 4 is close to the Irish, and I'll take your word for closest, but it's also close to the modern day English.

And finally, yes, I must have misunderstood you, as I thought you were arguing the point that Ancestry DNA's Ireland is the category which represents all the "Celtic" peoples in Britain and Ireland!

Jessie
03-09-2017, 06:36 AM
What I meant when I said the Ireland component is just Irish:
"Taking the first question, why is the region named Ireland? There are a couple of reasons for this. But the simplest explanation has to do with the reference panel that is used to determine your estimate. The AncestryDNA reference panel is the set of DNA samples, representing individuals from particular regions around the world, to which your DNA is compared to obtain your ethnicity estimate. The individuals in the reference panel used for Ireland have deep roots in Ireland going back several generations." source: https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2017/01/25/ancestrydna-the-irish-connection/
They call it Ireland because that's where all of their reference population individuals come from and have roots in. This is what I meant by "It's only Irish" as in, all of the samples for Ireland category are Irish.

I'm not sure it's fair to say Ireland is the older component, I mean, it could well be, and Wales definitely looks like it has some Irish mixed in... it just doesn't look like it's the primary component for Wales. But how can we know what looks to be the primary Welsh component, the 51-55% previously known as FRA 17, isn't the older one? Regardless, in terms of Ancestry DNA, I do suspect you are correct in that the Ireland component is probably "something older" than the Great Britain component is... possibly because the GB category is representing a mixture of quite a few things.
Yes, Hinxton 4 is close to the Irish, and I'll take your word for closest, but it's also close to the modern day English.

And finally, yes, I must have misunderstood you, as I thought you were arguing the point that Ancestry DNA's Ireland is the category which represents all the "Celtic" peoples in Britain and Ireland!

I would like to see what a Welsh person with long term Welsh ancestry gets on the Ancestry test someone who has no known English ancestry. With Hinxton4 I'm using Eurogenes K13 and K15 and also information from the Eurogenes Blog on the topic. Another interesting piece of the puzzle is that Irish, Scots and Welsh have higher ANE or Steppe ancestry than England.

Hinxton4 Euro K13

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 53.46
2 Baltic 24.02
3 West_Med 11.76
4 West_Asian 7.02
5 South_Asian 2.16


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 2.863365
2 West_Scottish @ 3.014946
3 Orcadian @ 4.358510
4 North_Dutch @ 5.584435
5 Southwest_English @ 5.698962
6 Danish @ 6.000909
7 Norwegian @ 6.290884
8 Southeast_English @ 7.036012
9 North_German @ 8.560618
10 Swedish @ 9.451255
11 South_Dutch @ 12.532697
12 West_German @ 13.949921
13 North_Swedish @ 16.686899
14 French @ 18.478292
15 East_German @ 19.459642
16 Austrian @ 19.472918
17 Hungarian @ 24.775976
18 Southwest_Finnish @ 26.004641
19 Spanish_Cataluna @ 26.012226
20 Southwest_French @ 26.514172

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% West_Scottish @ 2.842766


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% West_Scottish @ 2.823130


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 2.823130
2 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.842766
3 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.863365
4 Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.899787
5 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.014946
6 Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.084194
7 Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.084972
8 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.119178
9 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.136187
10 Irish + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 3.141095
11 Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.141229
12 Danish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.204917
13 Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.220062
14 Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.221473
15 Irish + Irish + Irish + Norwegian @ 3.227695
16 Danish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 3.245053
17 North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.245249
18 Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.246083
19 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.276155
20 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 3.318298

Hinxton4 Euro K15

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 34.84
2 Atlantic 31.86
3 Baltic 13.89
4 West_Med 6.34
5 Eastern_Euro 5.72
6 West_Asian 4.78
7 South_Asian 1.93


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 4.905064
2 West_Scottish @ 6.169474
3 Southeast_English @ 6.637541
4 North_German @ 6.999067
5 North_Dutch @ 7.211045
6 Danish @ 7.583509
7 Southwest_English @ 7.889748
8 Orcadian @ 8.254118
9 South_Dutch @ 10.998238
10 Norwegian @ 11.717068
11 Swedish @ 12.091014
12 West_Norwegian @ 12.393330
13 West_German @ 13.587544
14 North_Swedish @ 15.583804
15 French @ 15.783916
16 East_German @ 16.500738
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 19.169643
18 Austrian @ 20.449272
19 Hungarian @ 21.896858
20 Finnish @ 23.097359

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Irish @ 4.905064


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% North_German @ 4.858814


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 4.858814
2 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 4.905064
3 Irish + Irish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 5.124758
4 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 5.206714
5 Irish + Irish + North_German + Southeast_English @ 5.241672
6 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southeast_English @ 5.247617
7 Irish + Irish + North_German + North_German @ 5.250949
8 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 5.274565
9 Irish + Irish + North_German + Southwest_English @ 5.384179
10 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 5.384790
11 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + North_German @ 5.386967
12 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 5.398497
13 Irish + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 5.405418
14 Irish + Irish + North_German + Orcadian @ 5.406187
15 Irish + North_German + North_German + West_Scottish @ 5.463884
16 Irish + North_German + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 5.489309
17 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 5.519095
18 Irish + Irish + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 5.530824
19 Danish + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 5.543446
20 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 5.576526

I suppose the term "Celtic" is a bit of a minefield. People have so many different opinions on what is and what isn't Celtic. Most probably Gaelic and Brythonic are better and less ambiguous. I still think with genetics though it might not be as cut and dry.

sktibo
03-09-2017, 08:32 AM
I would like to see what a Welsh person with long term Welsh ancestry gets on the Ancestry test someone who has no known English ancestry. With Hinxton4 I'm using Eurogenes K13 and K15 and also information from the Eurogenes Blog on the topic. Another interesting piece of the puzzle is that Irish, Scots and Welsh have higher ANE or Steppe ancestry than England.

Hinxton4 Euro K13

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 53.46
2 Baltic 24.02
3 West_Med 11.76
4 West_Asian 7.02
5 South_Asian 2.16


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 2.863365
2 West_Scottish @ 3.014946
3 Orcadian @ 4.358510
4 North_Dutch @ 5.584435
5 Southwest_English @ 5.698962
6 Danish @ 6.000909
7 Norwegian @ 6.290884
8 Southeast_English @ 7.036012
9 North_German @ 8.560618
10 Swedish @ 9.451255
11 South_Dutch @ 12.532697
12 West_German @ 13.949921
13 North_Swedish @ 16.686899
14 French @ 18.478292
15 East_German @ 19.459642
16 Austrian @ 19.472918
17 Hungarian @ 24.775976
18 Southwest_Finnish @ 26.004641
19 Spanish_Cataluna @ 26.012226
20 Southwest_French @ 26.514172

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% West_Scottish @ 2.842766


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% West_Scottish @ 2.823130


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 2.823130
2 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.842766
3 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.863365
4 Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.899787
5 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.014946
6 Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.084194
7 Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.084972
8 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.119178
9 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.136187
10 Irish + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 3.141095
11 Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.141229
12 Danish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.204917
13 Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.220062
14 Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.221473
15 Irish + Irish + Irish + Norwegian @ 3.227695
16 Danish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 3.245053
17 North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.245249
18 Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.246083
19 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.276155
20 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 3.318298

Hinxton4 Euro K15

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 34.84
2 Atlantic 31.86
3 Baltic 13.89
4 West_Med 6.34
5 Eastern_Euro 5.72
6 West_Asian 4.78
7 South_Asian 1.93


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 4.905064
2 West_Scottish @ 6.169474
3 Southeast_English @ 6.637541
4 North_German @ 6.999067
5 North_Dutch @ 7.211045
6 Danish @ 7.583509
7 Southwest_English @ 7.889748
8 Orcadian @ 8.254118
9 South_Dutch @ 10.998238
10 Norwegian @ 11.717068
11 Swedish @ 12.091014
12 West_Norwegian @ 12.393330
13 West_German @ 13.587544
14 North_Swedish @ 15.583804
15 French @ 15.783916
16 East_German @ 16.500738
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 19.169643
18 Austrian @ 20.449272
19 Hungarian @ 21.896858
20 Finnish @ 23.097359

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Irish @ 4.905064


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% North_German @ 4.858814


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 4.858814
2 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 4.905064
3 Irish + Irish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 5.124758
4 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 5.206714
5 Irish + Irish + North_German + Southeast_English @ 5.241672
6 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southeast_English @ 5.247617
7 Irish + Irish + North_German + North_German @ 5.250949
8 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 5.274565
9 Irish + Irish + North_German + Southwest_English @ 5.384179
10 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 5.384790
11 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + North_German @ 5.386967
12 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 5.398497
13 Irish + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 5.405418
14 Irish + Irish + North_German + Orcadian @ 5.406187
15 Irish + North_German + North_German + West_Scottish @ 5.463884
16 Irish + North_German + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 5.489309
17 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 5.519095
18 Irish + Irish + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 5.530824
19 Danish + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 5.543446
20 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 5.576526

I suppose the term "Celtic" is a bit of a minefield. People have so many different opinions on what is and what isn't Celtic. Most probably Gaelic and Brythonic are better and less ambiguous. I still think with genetics though it might not be as cut and dry.

Here's a Welsh AncestryDNA review for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiFy0kFSbus&list=PLaKqBns90PZ5zB-ZoCkWHDgNtLjgHfUCi
4:55 he talks about his father, 29% Irish 63% Great Britain I think he says in the video. He describes his mom as half English and Half Welsh, his dad as just Welsh. He claims his family didn't ever move around much. His dad lines up almost perfectly with the Irish amount on average assigned to Welsh people on the ancestry blog, and also with the old Irish 24 cluster assigned to Welsh people.. Perhaps they were similar sample populations?

As for K15, for fun I'll try to illustrate a point with my own:
1 Atlantic 32.46
2 North_Sea 30.18
3 Baltic 13.1
4 West_Med 9.24
5 Eastern_Euro 6
6 West_Asian 4.27
7 Amerindian 2.22
8 Siberian 1.06
9 Southeast_Asian 0.83
10 Oceanian 0.35
11 Red_Sea 0.3

1 Irish 6.96
2 Southeast_English 7.07
3 Southwest_English 7.35
4 North_German 7.56
5 South_Dutch 7.86

...These gedmatch calculators love to put me in the Irish box, So I'm always wary of Oracle results.

Especially funny when comparing mine to Rathlin (when you know how completely un-Irish I am)
1 Atlantic 32.45
2 North_Sea 31.58
3 Baltic 12.95
4 Eastern_Euro 11.65
5 West_Asian 3.29
6 South_Asian 3.17
7 Amerindian 1.87
8 Sub-Saharan 1.59
9 West_Med 1.39
10 Red_Sea 0.06

I love v2 K15 for lots of things, but when my own numbers get this close to this old Irish guy I can't help but wonder if it's not the best sometimes. (To be fair to k15, it does show a pretty big difference in East Euro, along with some other categories) Using the new MDLP calcs there's a much more significant difference between us

XooR
03-20-2017, 10:58 PM
http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12935&stc=1

Asimakidis, Do you have more Ancestry.com results of Pontic Greeks?

Asimakidis
03-20-2017, 11:12 PM
Asimakidis, Do you have more Ancestry.com results of Pontic Greeks?

unfortunately no Xoor.

ADW_1981
04-30-2017, 01:56 PM
My results just came in, a little underwhelming, but accurate I suppose. The Irish ancestry is really "Briton" in England rather than anything in Ireland.

Europe West: 67%
Ireland: 21%
Scandinavia: 5%

Low Confidence:
Great Britain: 4%
Finland/NW Russia: 2%

Low Confidence:
Africa North: 1%

My Genetic Communities

English in the South East: Very Likely

angscoire
05-20-2017, 07:44 PM
Results :


Europe 100%

Regional breakdown:

Ireland 51%
Europe West 34%
Scandinavia 10%

and low confidence calls

Britain 2%
Finland/NW Russia 2%
Iberia >1%

Genetic Communities:

Scots
Southern English

Very high Irish score , extremely low British score, which on the face of it is faintly ridiculous , although 'Ireland' apparently includes the Scots (I am very roughly 35% Scottish and 16% Irish) , and 'Europe West' does just about stretch into Southern and Central England (about 20% of my known ancestry) - but I'm reaching here . It doesn't seem to pick up on my hefty Northumberland/Durham ancestry (about 35%) as being 'British' either, unless North East England is indistinguishable from Scots on their chip. Scandinavia gets almost exactly the same score as on LivingDNA.

Overall ,could have been worse , but more than a little wayward .

JDay
05-30-2017, 01:59 AM
Finally got my results, which I found quite confusing.

100% European
91% Great Britain (More British than almost all Brits. LOL)
3% Ireland
2% Iberian
1% Europe East
1% Europe West
<1% European Jewish
<1% Italy/Greece

Genetic Communities: Connacht Irish (Likely), Settlers of Colonial Pennsylvania: (Possible), Germans in the Midwest: (Possible)

I understand that the Great Britain and Europe West categories are quite similar, but given that two of my grandparents have classically German last names, I was shocked to only come up as 1% Europe West. I feel like the Genetic Communities correlates with my paper trail pretty well though. Would it possible for a person of mostly German and Irish decent to come out as heavily "Great Britain" as the British are mainly a combination of Celtic and Germanic peoples?

sktibo
05-30-2017, 05:00 AM
Finally got my results, which I found quite confusing.

100% European
91% Great Britain (More British than almost all Brits. LOL)
3% Ireland
2% Iberian
1% Europe East
1% Europe West
<1% European Jewish
<1% Italy/Greece

Genetic Communities: Connacht Irish (Likely), Settlers of Colonial Pennsylvania: (Possible), Germans in the Midwest: (Possible)

I understand that the Great Britain and Europe West categories are quite similar, but given that two of my grandparents have classically German last names, I was shocked to only come up as 1% Europe West. I feel like the Genetic Communities correlates with my paper trail pretty well though. Would it possible for a person of mostly German and Irish decent to come out as heavily "Great Britain" as the British are mainly a combination of Celtic and Germanic peoples?

Holy **** that's the most British percentage I think has ever been handed out. Are you half German and half Irish perchance? my theory is that the Great Britain category is actually more or less a mixture of "Ireland" and "Scandinavia" and you look like you might be living proof of that.

jonathanmcg1990
05-30-2017, 12:46 PM
Holy **** that's the most British percentage I think has ever been handed out. Are you half German and half Irish perchance? my theory is that the Great Britain category is actually more or less a mixture of "Ireland" and "Scandinavia" and you look like you might be living proof of that.

I think this is the link you need to look at Sktibo.


http://www.ancestry.com/cs/dna-help/ethnicity/whitepaper

JDay
05-30-2017, 03:36 PM
Holy **** that's the most British percentage I think has ever been handed out. Are you half German and half Irish perchance? my theory is that the Great Britain category is actually more or less a mixture of "Ireland" and "Scandinavia" and you look like you might be living proof of that.

Not sure on the percentages, but German, Irish, English on my father's side, German, English and family legend of Lenape on my mother's side.

K15
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 32.44
2 North_Sea 27.54
3 Baltic 13.07
4 West_Med 11.12
5 Eastern_Euro 7.05
6 West_Asian 6.66


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Dutch 8.592895
2 Southwest_English 9.884375
3 North_German 9.926876
4 Southeast_English 10.267015
5 Irish 10.794315
6 French 11.946752
7 West_Scottish 12.050743
8 Danish 12.708853
9 North_Dutch 12.897851
10 East_German 13.865582
11 Orcadian 14.241307
12 West_German 14.368286
13 Austrian 16.122526
14 Norwegian 17.087221
15 Spanish_Cataluna 17.107756
16 Swedish 17.617937
17 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 18.082628
18 Southwest_French 18.271891
19 West_Norwegian 18.657490
20 Spanish_Cantabria 18.805185

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French_Basque +50% Swedish 7.509576


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +25% East_German +25% French_Basque 5.779804


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + North_German + North_German + North_German 4.599365
2 East_German + French_Basque + Irish + North_German 4.716386
3 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + North_German 4.837321
4 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + West_Scottish 4.915964
5 Croatian + French_Basque + Irish + Irish 5.018602
6 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + South_Polish 5.031529
7 East_German + French_Basque + Irish + Irish 5.053144
8 East_German + French_Basque + North_Dutch + North_German 5.070656
9 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + Orcadian 5.088114
10 Austrian + French_Basque + Irish + North_German 5.094421
11 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + Southeast_English 5.110029
12 Austrian + French_Basque + Irish + Irish 5.115778
13 Croatian + French_Basque + Irish + Orcadian 5.117631
14 Croatian + French_Basque + Irish + West_Scottish 5.124991
15 French_Basque + Irish + Orcadian + South_Polish 5.131876
16 Austrian + French_Basque + North_German + Orcadian 5.146787
17 French_Basque + Irish + North_German + North_German 5.161953
18 Austrian + French_Basque + Irish + North_Dutch 5.162842
19 French_Basque + Irish + South_Polish + West_Scottish 5.170724
20 Austrian + French_Basque + North_German + West_Scottish 5.203606

K13
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 46.45
2 Baltic 23.70
3 West_Med 17.14
4 West_Asian 6.64
5 East_Med 2.91
6 Amerindian 1.27


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Dutch 5.681668
2 Southeast_English 6.064989
3 Southwest_English 6.521695
4 Orcadian 6.977754
5 West_German 7.165495
6 Irish 7.694401
7 North_Dutch 7.899765
8 North_German 8.036798
9 Danish 8.366082
10 West_Scottish 8.521713
11 Norwegian 10.111670
12 French 11.224807
13 Swedish 11.271180
14 Austrian 12.762434
15 East_German 13.291363
16 North_Swedish 16.870413
17 Hungarian 18.396782
18 Spanish_Cataluna 18.857159
19 Southwest_French 19.151226
20 Spanish_Cantabria 20.056633

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% South_Dutch +50% Southwest_English 4.193801


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_German +25% Orcadian +25% Southwest_French 3.194569


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + South_Polish 2.298638
2 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + Ukrainian_Lviv 2.313655
3 French_Basque + Irish + Ukrainian_Belgorod + West_Scottish 2.388747
4 French_Basque + Ukrainian_Belgorod + West_Scottish + West_Scottish 2.404788
5 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + Ukrainian_Belgorod 2.428883
6 French_Basque + Irish + Ukrainian_Lviv + West_Scottish 2.432974
7 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + Ukrainian 2.498564
8 French_Basque + Hungarian + Irish + Swedish 2.501748
9 French_Basque + Irish + South_Polish + West_Scottish 2.504362
10 French_Basque + Irish + North_Dutch + South_Polish 2.509906
11 Croatian + French_Basque + Irish + Norwegian 2.511694
12 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + Swedish 2.529104
13 French_Basque + Irish + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_Belgorod 2.532909
14 East_German + French_Basque + North_German + Norwegian 2.541418
15 Austrian + French_Basque + North_German + Swedish 2.550377
16 French_Basque + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_Belgorod + West_Scottish 2.555955
17 Danish + French_Basque + Irish + South_Polish 2.568043
18 French_Basque + Irish + North_Dutch + Ukrainian_Lviv 2.569636
19 French_Basque + Irish + North_German + South_Polish 2.583292
20 French_Basque + Ukrainian_Lviv + West_Scottish + West_Scottish 2.606597

I'm not an expert at reading these, but my understanding is that they imply English/Germanic heritage with some Irish as well. Interestingly, the K13 4-population suggests some Eastern European descent.

sktibo
05-30-2017, 04:42 PM
I think this is the link you need to look at Sktibo.


http://www.ancestry.com/cs/dna-help/ethnicity/whitepaper

I'm familiar with that

if you are interested​ in why i made such a claim i have a thread about this in the ancestry section called categories discussion

Elizabeth
06-16-2017, 06:38 AM
My results from January:

32% Scandinavian
30% British Isles
16% Southern Europe
12% Western and Central Europe
10% Eastern Europe
01% Central Asia

ajc347
06-17-2017, 09:35 PM
My Ancestry results arrived this evening and I'm pleasantly surprised at how well they have tied in with the results from other companies:

Europe 98%

Great Britain 52%
Ireland 32%

Low Confidence Region
Europe West 3%
Europe East 3%
Italy/Greece 3%
Scandinavia 3%
Iberian Peninsula 1%
European Jewish < 1%

West Asia 2%

Low Confidence Region
Caucasus 2%

I was expecting some over-reporting from Scandinavia (which I have read is pretty common) and to see such a low percentage was re-assuring in terms of the accuracy of the results.

The British Genetic Communities I've been assigned to (Southern English / English in East Anglia & Essex, and English in the East Midlands) align perfectly with my paper records. I'm surprised not to see and Irish Genetic Communities, though, and am hoping that they will show up in the next few days or so.

I've also run the raw data through the Gedmatch Eurogenes calculator and have ended up with broadly similar results to the those given by both my FTDNA and Living DNA raw data files. :)

Elizabeth
06-30-2017, 08:52 PM
My results from January:

32% Scandinavian
30% British Isles
16% Southern Europe
12% Western and Central Europe
10% Eastern Europe
01% Central Asia

The above are results I wrote down on a piece of paper and now I know they may not be AncestryDNA estimates. It may be FTDNA?

Anyway...sorry for the confusion...I tried to post a screen shot just now but I get this message from Anthrogenica:
"The following errors occurred with your submission

An error has occurred Elizabeth! You are not allowed to post links."


Here are my Ancestry dot com results:
53% Great Britain
18% Europe West
16% Europe East
4% Ireland
3% Iberian Peninsula
2% Italy/Greece
1% Scandinavia
<1% Finland/NW Russia

2% West Asian

Dubhthach
07-02-2017, 11:28 AM
So my father's AncestryDNA results came in this morning:

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/dad.png

100% European

Ireland: 95% (Range 81-100%)
Trace Regions:

Great Britain: 3% (Range: 0-13%)
Europe West: 2% (Range 0-10%)

Genetic Communities:
Ulster Irish: Confidence = 60%
Irish in Ulster East: Confidence = 20%
Munster Irish: Confidence = 20%

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/Ulster-Irish.png

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/Irish-Ulster-East.png

My own results (old image but percentages same)
http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/ancestrydna.png

My range for Ireland is 77-100%. It will be interesting when my mother's results come in (hopefully in next week) how it compares. With regards to genetic communities I had:
Munster Irish: Confidence = 95%
Irish in Southern Ireland: Confidence = 60%

To explain my family background a bit. My father was born in Athlone, however his father was from Belfast and his mother was from East Galway/South Roscommon. Of his 4 grandparents one was 'Liverpool Irish' and another was from Cork. My mother's family in comparison was all from South Galway/North Clare.

From a Y-DNA point of view my earliest MDKA that I can trace was born in Derry, though it's possible that his father was from Donegal (this is back in the 1860's)

Dubhthach
07-03-2017, 04:26 AM
So my mother's results came in over night.

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/mum.png

98% European

Ireland: 94% (Range 86-100%)
Low Confidence Regions:
Iberian Peninsula: 2% (Range: 0-7%)
Great Britain: <1% (Range 0-6%)
Finland/Northwest Russia: <1% (Range: 0-3%)

2% Asia

Low Confidence Region
Asia Central: 2% (Range: 0-3%)

Genetic Communities:
Irish in Southern Ireland: Confidence = 95%
Munster Irish: Confidence = 95%
Munster Irish: Confidence = 95%
Connacht Irish: Confidence = 20%
Irish in North Connacht: Confidence = 20%
Irish in Galway: Confidence = 20%

To put that into perspective my mother is from North Clare, other then her surname (Which is probably of 16th century english origin) all of her other grandparents carried Clare surnames (Dál gCais -- O'Brien, McMahon, McNamara etc.), her paternal line aside from the English sounding surname had actually come from South Galway. So not huge surprise to see a low confidence Connacht/Galway community showing up there.

What has me curious is that Ancestry has myself at 89% Ireland (range 77-100%) which is noticeably less than both my parents (94% and 95%). I wonder if this is result of fact that when my test was done they had a smaller Irish reference population to compare it with, or is it case that one of two of my other components are inflated (or deflated in case of my parents). It is interesting that I show up 3% Finland/NW Russia but in my mother's case it's <1%.

Dubhthach
07-03-2017, 04:36 AM
What's noticeable is difference in the confidence ratings for the genetic communities between my father and my mother. My mother tops out at 95% Munster (which she's going to be very happy about!) whereas my father's highest confidence level is 60% for Ulster Irish.
My Paternal 4 great-grandparents (eg. my father's grandparents):

Belfast
Birkenhead (Liverpool Irish) -- has names such as McGonigle (Donegal?) and Cassidy in tree
East Galway/South Roscommon
Cork


The Cork connection probably explains the 20% confidence rating for 'Munster Irish' he got.

Clarke
07-04-2017, 01:44 AM
My results

Ireland 36%
Western Europe 28%
England 27%

Low confidence regions
Iberian Peninsula 5%
Scandinavia 3%
Europe East <1%
Italy/Greece <1%

Genetic Communities
Southern England/ Very Likely
Munster Irish/ Likely
Limerick & Kerry/ Possible

Known Surnames
Paternal/ Clarke, Hegerty, Galvin, Hayes, Walsh

Maternal Surnames/ Clayworth, Wilkes, Miller, Claven, Wholohan, Cross

Currently trying to make more sense of the Western Europe results with Gedmatch, but am not and maybe will never be 100% sure.

JerryS.
07-04-2017, 12:57 PM
id like to find somebody well versed in this DNA interpretation so they can have a look at my GEDmatch data and help me figure something out.

palacista
07-04-2017, 09:21 PM
There is a new post at Euogenes that will go someway to explaining the difficulty that testing sites like Ancestry have with European origins. It seems there is just too much similarity across the continent.

Cinnamon orange
07-05-2017, 08:05 AM
I wonder if Ancestry tweaked their algorithm for newer testers to deal with the long running over estimation of Scandinavian.
I received 13 percent Scandinavian but no modern time frame ancestry from there, i.e. traceable. I do have German and British isles ancestry.
My Europe West category is only 3 percent, which puzzles me and I think most of the 'Scandinavian' should be there.
Ancestry did get my British isles ok at 24 percent.

Rach_27
07-09-2017, 12:35 PM
My known ancestors are all British and Palestinian. These are my AncestryDNA results:

17462

JerryS.
07-09-2017, 10:16 PM
i'm colonial American English, 1850s German, and 1900s Italian, but ancestry has my British Isles at 66%, which is more than the average Briton. LOL.

sktibo
07-15-2017, 05:27 AM
i'm colonial American English, 1850s German, and 1900s Italian, but ancestry has my British Isles at 66%, which is more than the average Briton. LOL.

Haha! Sounds like a fantastically bad result. I used to be a bigger fan of AncestryDNA but these days I feel like I might as well be recommending FTDNA - it's cheaper and at least it has a chromosome browser!

JerryS.
07-15-2017, 12:28 PM
Haha! Sounds like a fantastically bad result. I used to be a bigger fan of AncestryDNA but these days I feel like I might as well be recommending FTDNA - it's cheaper and at least it has a chromosome browser!

if I do another test it will be 23andMe. ive read too many problems with FTDNA and their origins calculators.

gijoeinfinity
07-24-2017, 04:34 AM
i'm colonial American English, 1850s German, and 1900s Italian, but ancestry has my British Isles at 66%, which is more than the average Briton. LOL.

My dad's ancestry is almost completely 100% Colonial American with plenty of German in there, but he tests out as 93% British Isles (and 0% Western European). Yet, I test out with 11% Western European, but I certainly did not inherit that from my mother as she is 100% Filipino.

gijoeinfinity
07-24-2017, 04:44 AM
My dad's ancestry is almost completely 100% Colonial American with plenty of German in there, but he tests out as 93% British Isles (and 0% Western European). Yet, I test out with 11% Western European, but I certainly did not inherit that from my mother as she is 100% Filipino.

Forgot to mention, my dad's results show a confidence level between 83% - 99% British Isles. Too funny.

greerpalmer
07-24-2017, 02:46 PM
I wonder if Ancestry tweaked their algorithm for newer testers to deal with the long running over estimation of Scandinavian.
I received 13 percent Scandinavian but no modern time frame ancestry from there, i.e. traceable. I do have German and British isles ancestry.
My Europe West category is only 3 percent, which puzzles me and I think most of the 'Scandinavian' should be there.
Ancestry did get my British isles ok at 24 percent.

Definitely not. I got 33% versus 1-2% on all other major tests.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11427-Comparison-Ancestry-vs-Other-Services

bryan
07-24-2017, 03:09 PM
I don't have any known Iberian or British ancestry but I got both on Ancestrydna. I assume it's probadly some deep shared heritage and it may have to do with the Celtic settlements in both Iberia and Central-East Europe.

Bleuteufel
08-05-2017, 10:54 AM
I finally convinced mom to do one of these tests. She is mostly 1/2 German and 1/2 Latvian with some minor other groups.

68% Eastern Europe
20% Scandinavia
6% Ireland
4% Finland/NW Russia
1% Great Britain
<1% Pacific Islander-Melanasian

JenneR
08-13-2017, 04:39 PM
•European 99%
Great Britain 55%
Ireland 33%
Europe East 5%
Italy/Greece 3%
Europe West 2%
Scandinavian 1%
•African 1%
South-Central Hunters and Gatherers 1%

selectivememri
08-13-2017, 09:29 PM
here are some results from my family members and i, if this helps for averages, they all are macedonian

me:
Europe
96%
Italy/Greece
52%
Europe East
38%
Low Confidence Region
European Jewish
2%
Ireland
2%
Finland/Northwest Russia
1%
Europe West
1%
Scandinavia
0%
West Asia
4%
Low Confidence Region
Caucasus
4%

mom

Asia
< 1%
Low Confidence Region
Asia South
< 1%
Europe
94%
Italy/Greece
54%
Europe East
38%
Low Confidence Region
Europe West
1%
European Jewish
< 1%
West Asia
5%
Low Confidence Region
Caucasus
4%
Middle East
< 1%


dad

Europe
96%
Italy/Greece
57%
Europe East
36%
Low Confidence Region
Europe West
2%
Finland/Northwest Russia
< 1%
Ireland
0%
West Asia
4%
Low Confidence Region
Caucasus
4%

maternal grandmother

Europe
97%
Italy/Greece
54%
Europe East
41%
Low Confidence Region
Finland/Northwest Russia
2%
Europe West
0%
West Asia
3%
Low Confidence Region
Caucasus
2%
Middle East
< 1%


sorry was too lazy to screencap

Saba123
08-14-2017, 04:37 AM
http://i.imgur.com/BvrubIS.png
I don't think I have ever posted my AncestryDNA results so here you go. I am Southern Iranian with around 70% of my family comes from nomadic tribes like the Bakhtiari and Qashqai, while 30% comes Fars and Bushrer Iranians.

Nqp15hhu
08-14-2017, 10:05 AM
I'm from Northern Ireland, I expected some GB since I have some Ulster Scots ancestry, but apparently not.

Never the less, here are my results:

98% European
1% Jewish
1% Scandinavian
3% Eastern Europe
5% Western Europe
88% Ireland

1% Asia South
1% Melanasia

I uploaded my results to MyHeritage and got the following.

94.7% Irish, Scottish and Welsh
1.2% Eastern Europe
2.5% Balkan
1.5% Asia South

So, I guess I do have the Eastern Europe and Asia South. I'm not sure where my Western Europe went?

greerpalmer
08-14-2017, 01:51 PM
I'm not sure where my Western Europe went?

Your lack of Scandinavian is almost impressive for a BI on ancestry. I'm English-Irish-German and got 33% which I assumed was my "Western" European. Other tests show 0-2.5%

Nqp15hhu
08-14-2017, 03:47 PM
Your lack of Scandinavian is almost impressive for a BI on ancestry. I'm English-Irish-German and got 33% which I assumed was my "Western" European. Other tests show 0-2.5%

Yeah, my family has stayed in my county for hundreds of years. I'm just surprised about the Irish percentage.

I guess there wasn't much of an influx of migrants here at all, really.

You wouldn't know I had such a high Irish percent, don't look Irish at all.

greerpalmer
08-14-2017, 04:34 PM
I'd guess you're related to a handful of ancestry's reference population. Myheritage isn't all that surprising since their algorithm gives people high percentages fairly often.

Nqp15hhu
08-14-2017, 05:32 PM
I have a very small Ancestry DNA match population. It's in the hundreds.

Robert1
08-14-2017, 08:52 PM
AncestryDNA Ethnicity Estimate

European ...... 100%
Great Britain.... 53%
Ireland ........... 28%
Europe West ... 16%
Scandinavia ...... 3%

If 10% of Europe West were moved to Great Britain the estimate would be pretty much on the money.

My best estimate adding in Living DNA and my own records is:

European ...... 100%
England .......... 36%
Scotland ......... 24%
Ireland ........... 17%
Wales ............. 16%
German/Dutch/French ... 5.7%
Scandinavia ....... 1.3%

Don Felipe
08-22-2017, 10:06 PM
I'm half Cape Verdean, half Dutch with known distant Portuguese ancestry as well.

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/ff.png

I was most pleased with how Ancestry specified my African side which is predom. Upper Guinean (Senegal + Mali) as expected. First DNA test i took which confirmed this.



Cape Verdean AncestryDNA results (https://tracingafricanroots.wordpress.com/ancestrydna/cape-verdean-results/)


Also my Dutch side is described very accurately by the 47% Europe West but probably i should also add the 7% socalled Scandinavian. Having seen other Dutch AncestryDNA results in the meanwhile i know now i might have been lucky though as many tend to get high "Great Britain" scores as well. On 23andme actually i did get a much higher socalled "British & Irish" score which was nearly equal to my "French & German" with again also some Scandinavian thrown in.



Dutch AncestryDNA results (https://tracingafricanroots.wordpress.com/ancestrydna/dutch-french-results/)



I was bit disappointed with the relatively low Iberian Peninsula score. But it's actually exactly the same as on 23&me. And from having seen about 25 Portuguese AncestryDNA results i now understand that this region is not very predictive of Portuguese DNA. The 6% Middle East was the most striking score. Not sure what to make of it yet. On 23andme i have 1,5% MENA but it's almost all North African.



Portuguese AncestryDNA results (https://tracingafricanroots.wordpress.com/ancestrydna/iberian-results/)

JerryS.
08-22-2017, 11:56 PM
Ancestry DNA gives me less than 1% Iberian, yet Eurogenes K36 gives me 12%. which one has grossly miscalculated?

mwauthy
08-23-2017, 12:08 AM
Ancestry DNA gives me less than 1% Iberian, yet Eurogenes K36 gives me 12%. which one has grossly miscalculated?

I would trust a company you have to pay money to that analyzes 40 different areas of your DNA using 700,000 snps and comparing it to reference panels over a free program based on a predetermined algorithm that gives you your results in a few seconds. My opinion could be incorrect though.

JerryS.
08-23-2017, 02:39 AM
I would trust a company you have to pay money to that analyzes 40 different areas of your DNA using 700,000 snps and comparing it to reference panels over a free program based on a predetermined algorithm that gives you your results in a few seconds. My opinion could be incorrect though.

wow. GEDmatch calculators use the exact same data but because they do so for free means they have no bias nor do they have incentive to play favorites.

Amerijoe
08-23-2017, 03:13 AM
I would trust a company you have to pay money to that analyzes 40 different areas of your DNA using 700,000 snps and comparing it to reference panels over a free program based on a predetermined algorithm that gives you your results in a few seconds. My opinion could be incorrect though.

Let's see if your promise holds up in my case. Native born Scot with Irish ancestors. Paper trail in Scotland to mid 1700's. Irish trail to about 1800, predominately Northern Ireland. Some of the family names can be traced back in antiquity. I mention this because time has spread Scandinavian genes across the Isles with preponderance in the North and diminishing percentages moving South and West. Scandinavian is part of the British Isles makeup and regional percentages are readily available. So, here I am with my horns in hand anxiously awaiting that coronation, 'Viking', but alas it is not to be. Ancestrydna says as hard as we try with our bountiful regions and snps at our beckoned call. Your Scandinavian has slip through our snps. A zero for it, was all we could find.

I could not and would not accept their Vikingless results. Off to Livingdna did I go. They sifted and sifted through their snps until they confirmed the coronation could proceed as planned. Small horns at best, but a full fledge 4.6% Viking I be. Though is a fleeting word. Welcome :) Joe

mwauthy
08-23-2017, 03:36 AM
I just don't think the Eurogenes K36 categories correlate to where your ancestors are from anytime recently. Maybe they have some Bronze Age or Neolithic correlations? Don't know.

In response to Joe I think Scandinavia, Great Britain, and Europe West are interchangeable on these sites.

JerryS.
08-23-2017, 05:55 AM
I just don't think the Eurogenes K36 categories correlate to where your ancestors are from anytime recently. Maybe they have some Bronze Age or Neolithic correlations? Don't know.

In response to Joe I think Scandinavia, Great Britain, and Europe West are interchangeable on these sites.

not so there either. Ancestry DNA has separate percentages for me with respect to Great Britton, Scandinavia and Western Europe.

mwauthy
08-23-2017, 12:20 PM
not so there either. Ancestry DNA has separate percentages for me with respect to Great Britton, Scandinavia and Western Europe.

Myself as well. My point was northwestern European DNA sometimes pops up as Great Britain, Europe West, and Scandinavian on these websites. I have a friend who has take 7 DNA tests and in some cases his majority is Great Britain, other times it's Western Europe, and sometimes a mix of the three with a large Scandinavian percentage.

Plus, there are several people on this website who have posted scores for themselves, siblings, and parents and those three regions have interchangeable scores but overall the northwestern totals are similar.

Lastly, if you look at the historical migrations of these areas it makes sense. England had large invasions of Germanic tribes and Vikings from Scandinavia as did other areas of northwestern Europe.

TB1977
09-06-2017, 05:47 PM
Agreed. Using Ged ancestry calcs in comparison with my family tree has increased my understanding of my ancestry. Having examined my dna using All the calcs showed me trends and nuances. The data Ancestry gave was spot on but "safe" and excludded some good info that was "a risky bet" however, GED opened up a oprituniry to do my own research and uncover much more.

Forgot to add : beyond a mathamatical doubt some of my germanic ancestery is from the UK. Dad was "half German" and Ancestry says 55% German...

etripp17
09-13-2017, 03:14 AM
AncestryDNA Estimates

31% Europe West
26% Scandinavian
19% Great Britain
14% Italy/Greece
5% Ireland
(Low Confidence Region)
4% Europe East
<1% Iberian Peninsula

AngryLeeloo94
09-14-2017, 07:52 AM
Europe 95%

Europe West 41% (12%-69%)
Italy/Greece 20% (6%-35%)
Great Britain 14% (0%-39%)
Ireland 12% (0%-26%)
European Jewish 3% (0%-8%)
Iberian Peninsula 3% (0%-10%
Europe East < 1% (0%-3%)
Scandinavia < 1% (0%-4%)

West Asia 5%

Caucasus 2% (0%-8%)
Middle East 3% (0%-7%)


And compared to GedMatch..(EUtest)
Atlantic 26.54
North_Sea 24.85
West_Med 14.11
Baltic 10.28
West_Asian 8.45
East_Med 8.29
Eastern_Euro 3.47
Red_Sea 1.59
Oceanian 1.14

JerryS.
09-15-2017, 12:59 AM
Europe 95%

Europe West 41% (12%-69%)
Italy/Greece 20% (6%-35%)
Great Britain 14% (0%-39%)
Ireland 12% (0%-26%)
European Jewish 3% (0%-8%)
Iberian Peninsula 3% (0%-10%
Europe East < 1% (0%-3%)
Scandinavia < 1% (0%-4%)

West Asia 5%

Caucasus 2% (0%-8%)
Middle East 3% (0%-7%)


And compared to GedMatch..(EUtest)
Atlantic 26.54
North_Sea 24.85
West_Med 14.11
Baltic 10.28
West_Asian 8.45
East_Med 8.29
Eastern_Euro 3.47
Red_Sea 1.59
Oceanian 1.14


my GEDmatch EUtest:

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 28.71
2 ATLANTIC 22.28
3 SOUTH_BALTIC 12.74
4 WEST_MED 11.44
5 EAST_EURO 11.15
6 EAST_MED 6.71
7 WEST_ASIAN 6.1
8 SOUTH_ASIAN 0.58
9 EAST_AFRICAN 0.3


**** why are the locations named differently??

TB1977
09-20-2017, 06:50 PM
This article might help yall sort admixtures of likely Romany Gypsy peeps. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982212012602