PDA

View Full Version : Do these results show that I have Persian ancestry?



Lollybolly
07-04-2018, 08:33 PM
Hi guys!

Got my results for a DNA test that I ordered. Regarding my ethnic background, my family always said that I was 100% from India but I guess the results kinda contradict this.

I got the following results from Ancestry DNA (which I guess is quite similar to 23andme):
- 90% South Asian
- 5% Caucasus
- 5% Finnish

Given that the database for 23andme and Ancestry DNA is not really developed, I uploaded my raw data to DNA.Land. The results were... wow:

-Central Asia: 65%, including
- 56% Indus Valley
- 6% Indo-Iranian
- 3% Kalash
-South Asia: 20%, including
- 17% Gujrati
- 3% Dravidian
-Central Indoeuropean: 7%
-European (Finnish): 6%
The rest is unassigned.

What do you think of my results? Do you think I might have some West Asian ancestry? I can also provide you with my HarappaWorld and my Gedrosia K12 results:

HARAPPA
# Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.35
2 S-Indian 26.66
3 Caucasian 16.98
4 NE-Euro 10.60
5 American 2.34
6 Siberian 1.87
7 SW-Asian 1.68

GEDROSIA K12
# Population Percent
1 S_INDIAN 33.09
2 BALOCHI 26.78
3 CAUCASUS 21.43
4 SINTASHTA_STEPPE_HERDERS 9.70
5 SW_ASIAN 4.66
6 INDO_TIBETAN 1.54
7 W_SIBERIAN 1.32
8 E_SIBERIAN 1.27

midichlorian
07-04-2018, 10:19 PM
What kind of South Asian are you ethnically?

poi
07-04-2018, 10:46 PM
Hi guys!

Got my results for a DNA test that I ordered. Regarding my ethnic background, my family always said that I was 100% from India but I guess the results kinda contradict this.

I got the following results from Ancestry DNA (which I guess is quite similar to 23andme):
- 90% South Asian
- 5% Caucasus
- 5% Finnish

Given that the database for 23andme and Ancestry DNA is not really developed, I uploaded my raw data to DNA.Land. The results were... wow:

-Central Asia: 65%, including
- 56% Indus Valley
- 6% Indo-Iranian
- 3% Kalash
-South Asia: 20%, including
- 17% Gujrati
- 3% Dravidian
-Central Indoeuropean: 7%
-European (Finnish): 6%
The rest is unassigned.

What do you think of my results? Do you think I might have some West Asian ancestry? I can also provide you with my HarappaWorld and my Gedrosia K12 results:

HARAPPA
# Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.35
2 S-Indian 26.66
3 Caucasian 16.98
4 NE-Euro 10.60
5 American 2.34
6 Siberian 1.87
7 SW-Asian 1.68

GEDROSIA K12
# Population Percent
1 S_INDIAN 33.09
2 BALOCHI 26.78
3 CAUCASUS 21.43
4 SINTASHTA_STEPPE_HERDERS 9.70
5 SW_ASIAN 4.66
6 INDO_TIBETAN 1.54
7 W_SIBERIAN 1.32
8 E_SIBERIAN 1.27

Can you give me your Gedmatch kit? I can include you in the next PCA run. You can then see for yourself where you are in the South Asian cline. Your Baloch is a little high, South Indian a little low, Caucasian is pretty high and NE Euro is also high. Is your ethnic group from the Northwest?

agent_lime
07-05-2018, 05:02 AM
Can you give me your Gedmatch kit? I can include you in the next PCA run. You can then see for yourself where you are in the South Asian cline. Your Baloch is a little high, South Indian a little low, Caucasian is pretty high and NE Euro is also high. Is your ethnic group from the Northwest?

He could be a Sindhi, or Arora, or Pathan? Overall kinda similar to me, with slightly lower SIndian.

Edit: Typical for NW ancestry with not much recent Persian ancestry in my opinion.

MonkeyDLuffy
07-05-2018, 05:14 AM
He could be a Sindhi, or Arora, or Pathan? Overall kinda similar to me, with slightly lower SIndian.

Edit: Typical for NW ancestry with not much recent Persian ancestry in my opinion.

His high east asian/Siberian is bringing the SI down. Which is normal in Pahari populations of NW South Asia. Although we don't know his ancestry yet.

Lollybolly
07-05-2018, 08:01 AM
I don't know if this helps but I am Ismaili. But could it be that I am entirely from Gujrat?

Lollybolly
07-05-2018, 09:17 AM
What does PCA mean? What information will it give me?

Lollybolly
07-05-2018, 09:18 AM
Can you give me your Gedmatch kit? I can include you in the next PCA run. You can then see for yourself where you are in the South Asian cline. Your Baloch is a little high, South Indian a little low, Caucasian is pretty high and NE Euro is also high. Is your ethnic group from the Northwest?

What does PCA mean and what information will it provide me?

MonkeyDLuffy
07-05-2018, 09:20 AM
You seem to be obviously mixed, especially that elevated SW Asian. Although that high Siberian like NE asian mix is confusing and makes you look like pseudo Punjabi Arain like. Can you post your gedmatch kit number?

Lollybolly
07-05-2018, 09:23 AM
You seem to be obviously mixed, especially that elevated SW Asian. Although that high Siberian like NE asian mix is confusing and makes you look like pseudo Punjabi Arain like. Can you post your gedmatch kit number?

Kit number: A073445

Sapporo
07-05-2018, 10:01 AM
Your Harappa results have some similarity to Punjabi Khatris/Arora, Punjabi Arain & Lohana but if you're an Ismaili Muslim from Gujarat, it's possible you have either Pashtun or some type of Iranian/Central Asian ancestry. The combination of the source South Asian population + something Pashtun/Central Asian like gives a pseudo Khatri/Arora, Arain or Lohana profile.

Are you Bohra or Khoja? If you're Khoja, you're likely just part of Lohana diversity.

Lollybolly
07-05-2018, 10:16 AM
Your Harappa results have some similarity to Punjabi Khatris/Arora, Punjabi Arain & Lohana but if you're an Ismaili Muslim from Gujarat, it's possible you have either Pashtun or some type of Iranian/Central Asian ancestry. The combination of the source South Asian population + something Pashtun/Central Asian like gives a pseudo Khatri/Arora, Arain or Lohana profile.

Are you Bohra or Khoja? If you're Khoja, you're likely just part of Lohana diversity.

According to GEDmatch, I'm the closest to the Pathan group

Sapporo
07-05-2018, 10:25 AM
According to GEDmatch, I'm the closest to the Pathan group

Plenty of Punjabi Khatris/Arora, Hindu Sindhis, Lohana and even Punjabi Arain get Pathan as their top or near top match (they also all get Kalash pretty high) in Harappa oracles. I wouldn't take it literally. It's the combination of scoring high Caucasian and decent NE Euro on Harappa as well as relatively lower South Indian compared to most other South Asians.

It doesn't mean you are Pathan. Also, the HGDP Pathan dataset has a few outliers. A few of which are very South Asian shifted and 2 are very East Asian shifted and less South Asian. If they were removed, the distance between them and Punjabi Khatri/Arora, Hindu Sindhis, Lohana, Arain, etc. and others like yourself would increase.

However, I will note that there might be historical indications as pegasus as mentioned before regarding shared ancestry or origins between these groups (Eastern/KPK Pashtun, Kalash, Khatri/Arora, Hindu Sindhis, Lohana and Arain) and the original Swat populations. Some of the ancients score very similar to populations still living there today.

Lollybolly
07-05-2018, 10:36 AM
Plenty of Punjabi Khatris/Arora, Hindu Sindhis, Lohana and even Punjabi Arain get Pathan as their top or near top match (they also all get Kalash pretty high) in Harappa oracles. I wouldn't take it literally. It's the combination of scoring high Caucasian and decent NE Euro on Harappa as well as relatively lower South Indian compared to most other South Asians.

It doesn't mean you are Pathan. Also, the HGDP Pathan dataset has a few outliers. A few of which are very South Asian shifted and 2 are very East Asian shifted and less South Asian. If they were removed, the distance between them and Punjabi Khatri/Arora, Hindu Sindhis, Lohana, Arain, etc. and others like yourself would increase.

However, I will note that there might be historical indications as pegasus as mentioned before regarding shared ancestry or origins between these groups (Eastern/KPK Pashtun, Kalash, Khatri/Arora, Hindu Sindhis, Lohana and Arain) and the original Swat populations. Some of the ancients score very similar to populations still living there today.

Wow... thanks for the answer. Also, is there an explanation as to why I only score 3% Dravidian in my DNA.Land results ?

bol_nat
07-05-2018, 12:17 PM
Ismaili from Gujarat tend to be khojas. We have seen one other khoja result who's SI was similar to your's but he scored much higher baloch like ancestry.

Lollybolly
07-05-2018, 12:26 PM
Ismaili from Gujarat tend to be khojas. We have seen one other khoja result who's SI was similar to your's but he scored much higher baloch like ancestry.

That's what I find weird lol My Caucasus percentage is in fact quite high and I'm trying to find an explanation for it. Could it be that I have Persian ancestry that can be traced back 200 years ago when some followers of the Imam quit Iran to move to Pakistan?

Sapporo
07-05-2018, 12:34 PM
Wow... thanks for the answer. Also, is there an explanation as to why I only score 3% Dravidian in my DNA.Land results ?

DNA Land is an awful calculator but with regards to only scoring 3% Dravidian, it's likely since your Indus Valley score is so inflated and some of the South Asian that should be going to Dravidian is being subsumed within Indus Valley instead. The Indus Valley is more South Asian shifted than the Indo-Iranian component since it's based on the HGDP Sindhi, Pathan and Burusho while Indo-Iranian is based on the Baloch/Brahui.

Anyways, I understand you are Ismaili but are you Khoja? That would explain you scoring fairly close to Lohana since Khoja are supposed to be related to Hindu Lohana and Muslim Memons.

However, if you're not Khoja, Iranian or Central Asian ancestry is certainly possible.

bol_nat
07-05-2018, 12:36 PM
That's what I find weird lol My Caucasus percentage is in fact quite high and I'm trying to find an explanation for it. Could it be that I have Persian ancestry that can be traced back 200 years ago when some followers of the Imam quit Iran to move to Pakistan?

Your top matches on gedmatch. I don't think khojas and your result show any persian ancestry. Gujarati bohras results shows west asian admixture though.

*m.khoja (Kochi-india)

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 40.69
2 S-Indian 27.71
3 Caucasian 16.07
4 NE-Euro 9.53
5 SW-Asian 2.06
6 Siberian 1.15
7 Beringian 0.98
8 NE-Asian 0.9
9 Papuan 0.51
10 American 0.4
11 San 0.01


few others, they don't use khoja surname but score similarly so likely khojas

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.97
2 S-Indian 30.43
3 Caucasian 16.52
4 NE-Euro 8.09
5 American 1.73
6 SW-Asian 1.37
7 Siberian 0.71
8 NE-Asian 0.64
9 Papuan 0.53

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.77
2 S-Indian 27.94
3 Caucasian 13.46
4 NE-Euro 10.26
5 SW-Asian 4.05
6 Papuan 1.22
7 NE-Asian 1.1
8 Beringian 0.99
9 SE-Asian 0.74
10 American 0.45
11 San 0.02


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 47.15
2 S-Indian 27.68
3 Caucasian 13.61
4 NE-Euro 6.46
5 NE-Asian 2.46
6 SW-Asian 0.85
7 Papuan 0.78
8 W-African 0.46
9 Beringian 0.28
10 American 0.21
11 Mediterranean 0.03
12 San 0.02

Sapporo
07-05-2018, 12:39 PM
@bol_nat

I think the last individual result is the Khoja from Harappa Ancestry Project? Also, he gets a notable amount of Lohana/Hindu Sindhi matches as well as a few Punjabi Khatri. The trend is for Hindu Sindhis/Lohana, Punjabi Khatris/Arora and even Memon/Khoja to match with one another.

bol_nat
07-05-2018, 12:54 PM
@bol_nat

I think the last individual result is the Khoja from Harappa Ancestry Project? Also, he gets a notable amount of Lohana/Hindu Sindhi matches as well as a few Punjabi Khatri. The trend is for Hindu Sindhis/Lohana, Punjabi Khatris and even Memon/Khoja to match with one another.

Looks like he's same khoja. Could it be possible that khatris are showing it because of post 19th century mixture with aroras and bhatias? Because arains don't get sindhi matches.

In fact Arain 1 get sikh saini and hundal match in relatively top but not any sindhis or aroras.

passion
07-05-2018, 02:00 PM
Are you from Pakistan?

heksindhi
07-05-2018, 02:18 PM
Anyways, I understand you are Ismaili but are you Khoja? That would explain you scoring fairly close to Lohana since Khoja are supposed to be related to Hindu Lohana and Muslim Memons.

However, if you're not Khoja, Iranian or Central Asian ancestry is certainly possible.

In the context of Sindh/Kutch, "Khoja" is a term/title used by Muslim Lohana who belong to the Ismaili Shia faith. Additionally, "Agha Khani" or just "Ismaili" are also used and both are synonyms for Khoja. Muslim Lohana of the Sunni persuasion, on the other hand are referred to as "Memon".

There is evidence of some Khojas, particulary those from the Lasbela jamaats, originating from Iran:

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/20705


When Imam Hasan Ali Shah resolved to bid farewell to his native abode in 1841, the persecution of his followers thickened in Iran. The Ismailis who inhabited Iranian Baluchistan also migrated to some other safe place to ward off the hovering distress. Some of them are reported to have harboured in the Indian Baluchistan and settled in Lasbela. In those days, the Ismaili merchants of Bhuj, Kutchh had extended their mercantile activities as far as Sonmiani, the seaport of Lasbela, where they gradually spread in the interior regions and lived with the Iranian Ismailis.

Given that there is no particular requirement for endogamy within "jamaats" of Khojas, autosomal signs of Iranian ancestry would tend to get diluted away within 4 or 5 generations. The best way to detect actual Persian ancestry would be by checking for Iranian relatives on 23&me or GEDMatch.

Lollybolly
07-05-2018, 02:23 PM
A week ago, a guy contacted me by e-mail saying that he saw me in his DNA matches. We are supposedly cousins from 3rd to 5th generation. I checked and in fact he is my list. He's Iranian btw and he's the one who told me about the migration from Persia to Pakistan

Lollybolly
07-05-2018, 02:26 PM
Are you from Pakistan?

It seems that nobody knows exactly in my family tho. But my mother said something about her grandparents being from Pakistan.

passion
07-05-2018, 02:29 PM
It seems that nobody knows exactly in my family tho. But my mother said something about her grandparents being from Pakistan.

Cool, good to see more results of Pakistanis from diverse backgrounds.

Rahuls77
07-05-2018, 10:17 PM
A week ago, a guy contacted me by e-mail saying that he saw me in his DNA matches. We are supposedly cousins from 3rd to 5th generation. I checked and in fact he is my list. He's Iranian btw and he's the one who told me about the migration from Persia to Pakistan
Likely a case of Khatri/Labana + Some Qizlbash lineages.

Sapporo
07-06-2018, 09:00 AM
A week ago, a guy contacted me by e-mail saying that he saw me in his DNA matches. We are supposedly cousins from 3rd to 5th generation. I checked and in fact he is my list. He's Iranian btw and he's the one who told me about the migration from Persia to Pakistan

Well, that certainly makes it plausible. You may be of predominately Shia Khoja ancestry with minor Iranian ancestry somewhere in the fold.

Do you get any other Iranian or West Asian matches as potential 3rd to 5th cousins? I get a Near Eastern and Chechen match on 23andMe but they're too distant for 23andMe to determine the generation. At least for the Chechen, it's probably through extremely ancient paternal ancestry (since we're both L1a2).

Rahuls77
07-06-2018, 08:16 PM
I said Qizlbash, for they had a little diversity in their lot. Some easterly Iranics among them were likely part of Lollybolly's ancestry. I can't think of anything else.
Please check in case your Iranian matches are descended from Khans.