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parasar
08-29-2019, 04:01 PM
Nothing is known about their history before the 18th century. They have several origin myths as far as I know, one involves Parshuram and the other says they are derived from 14 people who were shipwrecked upon the Konkan coast or something. The Bene Israelis claim Chitpavans as their own folk who converted to Hinduism (Brahminism).

Autosomally speaking however, based on the samples we have, there is nothing that suggests a foreign origin for them
...

Nothing that strikes one as particularly Jewish about their Y either:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380230/table/TB3/?report=objectonly
Mainly R1a1 (12/25) with rest R2, J2a, L1, H1, H2
M017 R1a1 15 12 18 15 25 10 11 13 10 9
M410 J2a 14 15 16 13 23 10 11 12 11 10
M124 R2 14 12 16 13 23 10 10 14 11 10
M197 H1 14 13 18 13 22 10 11 12 11 11
M017 R1a1 15 13 17 12 23 10 10 13 10 10
M124 R2 15 12 16 13 23 10 10 14 10 10
M410 J2a 14 16 16 14 22 10 11 13 11 10
M017 R1a1 17 12 18 13 24 10 11 13 10 9
M017 R1a1 16 12 18 13 24 11 11 13 10 9
M052 H1 14 13 18 13 22 11 11 12 11 11
M017 R1a1 15 12 18 14 25 10 11 13 10 9
M017 R1a1 15 12 18 14 25 10 11 13 10 9
M017 R1a1 16 12 17 13 24 10 11 13 10 9
M017 R1a1 15 12 18 14 25 10 11 13 10 9
M410 J2a 15 15 16 13 24 10 11 12 13 10
M017 R1a1 15 12 16 13 25 10 11 13 10 9
M017 R1a1 16 12 18 13 24 11 11 13 10 9
M124 R2 14 12 16 13 23 10 10 14 10 10
M017 R1a1 15 12 18 14 25 10 11 13 10 10
M076 L1 14 12 16 13 21 11 14 11 13 9
M410 J2a 14 14 16 13 24 10 11 12 12 10
M124 R2 14 12 16 13 23 10 10 14 10 10
M124 R2 14 12 16 13 23 10 10 14 10 10
APT H2 15 12 16 14 21 9 11 13 11 10
M017 R1a1 15 12 18 14 25 10 11 13 10 10

parasar
08-29-2019, 04:35 PM
From Razib's analysis:
https://i1.wp.com/www.gnxp.com/WordPress/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Brahmins.png?ssl=1

"– Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, and the Gujarati Brahmin(s) I had are one cluster
– South Indian Brahmins (mostly Iyer) are another

To my surprise, the two Maharashtra Brahmins that I have are firmly in the South Indian cluster. The Bengali Brahmin is more like the North Indians. But there is a subtle skew toward the distant Bangladesh cluster. This individual seems less East Asian than even the typical Bengali Brahmin, but I think Bengali Brahmins can be modeled as North Indian Brahmin with non-Brahmin (and therefore East Asian) ancestry."

bol_nat
08-29-2019, 04:36 PM
Just saw the remaining Bhat (butt in Pak Punjab) are considered OBC in Indian Punjab, given their background as Brahmins before conversion. Along with biradaris like Arains and Kamboj which are on lower AASI end of SA. Proves how ridiculous OBC title is. But have seen the term being used on forum to identify groups same as Dalit groups.

Muslims are not counted in OBC category. These arains, bhat or kamboj listed are either hindus or sikhs.

Bhat/bhatra seem to be this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhatra

https://punjabxp.com/list-backward-other-classes/

OBC is modern concept in Indian punjab and seem like even sikh rajputs are OBC which is weird. Even kammi doesn't necessarily mean some SC like origin in punjab. We already know about tarkhans but some others also are similar. Talking about our village and surrounding villages in general, there is kammi baradari toobha (darzi in urdu?) they don't look like from dalit like community at all. Their women work in other people homes and men are tailors. Mirasis and nai in our village though do look like from SC origin.

tobha

https://i.imgur.com/vAGnV8R.jpg?1

poi
08-29-2019, 04:37 PM
Things like Tamil Brahmin, or chamar or madiga should not be ethnicities. These are people who are culturally the same as their counterparts living in the same state/region, who they’ve stayed distinct from due to inbreeding. It’s tribalism and nothing more.

They are "ethnicities" when the topic is population/disease genetics. Culturally, genetics is the least important factor when compared against other factors such as language, cultural ethos, and religion to some extent.

agent_lime
08-29-2019, 06:06 PM
Muslims are not counted in OBC category. These arains, bhat or kamboj listed are either hindus or sikhs.



OBC is modern concept in Indian punjab and seem like even sikh rajputs are OBC which is weird. Even kammi doesn't necessarily mean some SC like origin in punjab. We already know about tarkhans but some others also are similar. Talking about our village and surrounding villages in general, there is kammi baradari toobha (darzi in urdu?) they don't look like from dalit like community at all. Their women work in other people homes and men are tailors. Mirasis and nai in our village though do look like from SC origin.



OBC are disadvantaged people. It has NOTHING to with how much Indo Aryan you have. Nothing to do with where in the Varna system you are. The only exception maybe Brahmins, because giving them benefits is a big no-no in India. If it was apolitical, OBC would have the whole spectrum of communities.




Other Backward Class (OBC) is a collective term used by the Government of India to classify castes which are educationally or socially disadvantaged.

Sapporo
08-29-2019, 10:35 PM
Things like Tamil Brahmin, or chamar or madiga should not be ethnicities. These are people who are culturally the same as their counterparts living in the same state/region, who they’ve stayed distinct from due to inbreeding. It’s tribalism and nothing more.

Yes it is

Is it not tribalism when a Bavarian German person wants to marry another ethnic German from Bavaria? That kind of regional intermarriage is standard across the world despite globalism.

In Spain, the Catalans and Basques see themselves as a separate and distinct groups from the overall Spanish population despite all Iberian groups being clearly related. What about when an ethnic Korean or Japanese wants to marry another ethnic Korean or Japanese respectfully? Two of the most homogenous ethnic, cultural and genetic pops on the planet. Even in the western new world countries such as the US, the vast majority of white Americans marrying other white Americans?

Some of the linguistic related ethnic identities in South Asia are quite young. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the Punjabi linguistic identity has existed for less than a millenia (around 800 years or so) and it's still much older than Hindi (the linguistic not ethnic identity of millions in the Gangetic plains) I believe. With regards to "biradari" identities, most are just really sub-groups of Punjabis anyways.

Then, modern identities such as Indian and Pakistani are even younger and most would not consider them "ethnic' identities.

MonkeyDLuffy
08-29-2019, 10:44 PM
Muslims are not counted in OBC category. These arains, bhat or kamboj listed are either hindus or sikhs.

Bhat/bhatra seem to be this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhatra

https://punjabxp.com/list-backward-other-classes/

OBC is modern concept in Indian punjab and seem like even sikh rajputs are OBC which is weird. Even kammi doesn't necessarily mean some SC like origin in punjab. We already know about tarkhans but some others also are similar. Talking about our village and surrounding villages in general, there is kammi baradari toobha (darzi in urdu?) they don't look like from dalit like community at all. Their women work in other people homes and men are tailors. Mirasis and nai in our village though do look like from SC origin.

tobha

https://i.imgur.com/vAGnV8R.jpg?1

Hindu and Sikh Arain? The government doesn't care about religion when it comes to reservation. Chamar and churahs who converted to Christianity come under OBC. Mirasi or Doms are SC/ST even though they're muslims.

Edit: just saw agent lime reply. He summed it up pretty nice. OBC is a new term basically to lump biradaris with small population.

Nai are interesting for sure, we only have one Sikh Nai sample, she looks like a generic upper caste biradari type, so does her family and relatives. She scores like a mid caste biradari as well, way different than Chamar or PJL type samples we've. Although the Nai in our village look very SC types.

laltota
08-29-2019, 10:44 PM
Muslims are not counted in OBC category. These arains, bhat or kamboj listed are either hindus or sikhs.

Bhat/bhatra seem to be this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhatra

https://punjabxp.com/list-backward-other-classes/

OBC is modern concept in Indian punjab and seem like even sikh rajputs are OBC which is weird. Even kammi doesn't necessarily mean some SC like origin in punjab. We already know about tarkhans but some others also are similar. Talking about our village and surrounding villages in general, there is kammi baradari toobha (darzi in urdu?) they don't look like from dalit like community at all. Their women work in other people homes and men are tailors. Mirasis and nai in our village though do look like from SC origin.

tobha

https://i.imgur.com/vAGnV8R.jpg?1

Didn't find any caste / biradri named Toobha or Tobha via Google. There are some places or villages called Tobha, one in Pakistan and one in Haryana. Is it possible the Tobha people in your village and nearby came from somewhere else and call themselves after their place of origin?

The Arain in OBC list are probably Muslims. All Arains did not migrate to Pakistan.

My guess is the Sikh Rajputs and the other Rajputs in the OBC list, like Mehra Rajput, are from a Dalit community but who claim to have a Rajput ancestor as well. Its just a guess mainly, as I don't know anything about them, but I came across a few Dalits with Mehra last name.

MonkeyDLuffy
08-29-2019, 10:48 PM
Didn't find any caste / biradri named Toobha or Tobha via Google. There are some places or villages called Tobha, one in Pakistan and one in Haryana. Is it possible the Tobha people in your village and nearby came from somewhere else and call themselves after their place of origin?

The Arain in OBC list are probably Muslims. All Arains did not migrate to Pakistan.

My guess is the Sikh Rajputs and the other Rajputs in the OBC list, like Mehra Rajput, are from a Dalit community but who claim to have a Rajput ancestor as well. Its just a guess mainly, as I don't know anything about them, but I came across a few Dalits with Mehra last name.

Tobha probably originated from Tobhi? As in someone who washes clothes? The people who work with clothes are called chhimba in punjab afaik.

26284729292
08-29-2019, 10:56 PM
From Razib's analysis:
https://i1.wp.com/www.gnxp.com/WordPress/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Brahmins.png?ssl=1

"– Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, and the Gujarati Brahmin(s) I had are one cluster
– South Indian Brahmins (mostly Iyer) are another

To my surprise, the two Maharashtra Brahmins that I have are firmly in the South Indian cluster. The Bengali Brahmin is more like the North Indians. But there is a subtle skew toward the distant Bangladesh cluster. This individual seems less East Asian than even the typical Bengali Brahmin, but I think Bengali Brahmins can be modeled as North Indian Brahmin with non-Brahmin (and therefore East Asian) ancestry."

How old is this PCA though? UP Brahmins on Nmonte are much more AASI shifted than GBR. The other conclusions are agreeable.

laltota
08-29-2019, 10:57 PM
Tobha probably originated from Tobhi? As in someone who washes clothes? The people who work with clothes are called chhimba in punjab afaik.

I thought about that. In English its written as Dhobi though, and bol_nat said the men were tailors (caste Darzi). Unless they were of Dhobi caste origin who switched to tailoring in his area? Its possible.

And,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chhimba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chhimba_Darzi

The Chhimba Darzi are a Muslim community, found in the province Punjab, Pakistan. Darzi means tailor in Urdu. They are also known as Idrisi or Rajput. They are commonly very skillful persons. They belonged to Rajput karan and Raja Dahar’s ancestors. They also inhabit the Punjab in India and a diaspora in Europe. They now work in a range of occupations but their ancestors' usual work was with clothing and hand-printed textiles.

A significant number of Chhimba Darzi are now found in the city of Manchester in the United Kingdom.[1][page needed]

Sapporo
08-29-2019, 11:22 PM
How old is this PCA though? UP Brahmins on Nmonte are much more AASI shifted than GBR. The other conclusions are agreeable.

The Gujarati Brahmin he is using in his dataset is a Gujarati Jain Brahmin participant. Not the academic samples from the Daamgard paper who are a bit less AASI than the UP Brahmins (presumably from East UP; though they could be from various regions of UP) from the Metspalu study. Anyways, there is some variation among the Gujarati Brahmins as some are more shifted toward Deshastha Brahmins from Maharashtra whereas some are shifted toward Saraswat or Pushkarna Brahmins in Punjab/Rajasthan. I'd say most are somewhere in between both groups.

bol_nat
08-30-2019, 12:39 AM
Hindu and Sikh Arain? The government doesn't care about religion when it comes to reservation. Chamar and churahs who converted to Christianity come under OBC. Mirasi or Doms are SC/ST even though they're muslims.

Edit: just saw agent lime reply. He summed it up pretty nice. OBC is a new term basically to lump biradaris with small population.

Nai are interesting for sure, we only have one Sikh Nai sample, she looks like a generic upper caste biradari type, so does her family and relatives. She scores like a mid caste biradari as well, way different than Chamar or PJL type samples we've. Although the Nai in our village look very SC types.

I though muslims were nor included in these categories. Anyway I remember reading about few thousand sikhs that came up arains in old British census. 99% were muslims though but not 100%.

bol_nat
08-30-2019, 12:50 AM
Didn't find any caste / biradri named Toobha or Tobha via Google. There are some places or villages called Tobha, one in Pakistan and one in Haryana. Is it possible the Tobha people in your village and nearby came from somewhere else and call themselves after their place of origin?

The Arain in OBC list are probably Muslims. All Arains did not migrate to Pakistan.

My guess is the Sikh Rajputs and the other Rajputs in the OBC list, like Mehra Rajput, are from a Dalit community but who claim to have a Rajput ancestor as well. Its just a guess mainly, as I don't know anything about them, but I came across a few Dalits with Mehra last name.

I cannot find them either on google but they are numerous and found pretty much in all villages around us. I always tough toobha is punjabi word which mean darzi in urdu or tailor.

About sikh rajputs, it seem like they are real ones and were included in OBC few years ago. Some sikh rajputs protested though so maybe in next list they will be removed. What about brahmins in OBC?

client
08-30-2019, 02:50 AM
As I said earlier on another thread, OBC(Other Backward Class, not Caste) is purely politically defined. Even Brahmin groups can technically be OBC, but it would be it very hard for them to get that status approved.

Edit: There are "Goswamis"(Brahmins) in certain states who come under OBC

agent_lime
08-30-2019, 05:45 AM
Hindu and Sikh Arain? The government doesn't care about religion when it comes to reservation. Chamar and churahs who converted to Christianity come under OBC. Mirasi or Doms are SC/ST even though they're muslims.

Edit: just saw agent lime reply. He summed it up pretty nice. OBC is a new term basically to lump biradaris with small population.

Nai are interesting for sure, we only have one Sikh Nai sample, she looks like a generic upper caste biradari type, so does her family and relatives. She scores like a mid caste biradari as well, way different than Chamar or PJL type samples we've. Although the Nai in our village look very SC types.

The UP/ Haryana barber(nai) castes I have seen seem to resemble SC/ST folks. Punjab is so different from the rest of India.

agent_lime
08-30-2019, 05:58 AM
I though muslims were nor included in these categories. Anyway I remember reading about few thousand sikhs that came up arains in old British census. 99% were muslims though but not 100%.

It has nothing to do with Muslims. If your Caste(class of people) overall has low level of education and/or if your Caste is economically backward then they will be given the OBC label. Like I said before the only exception somewhat is Brahmins. Other very successful castes like the Baniyas, or Parsis, would be very hard to put under any OBC even in states they are backwards. Jats who are the dominant caste in Haryana also created a LOT of trouble in North India 2-3 years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_reservation_agitation

The OBC label is a political one, as an example some forward castes would deal with poverty before they let the government put them in the OBC category. Some want to take advantage of India's very screwed up affirmative action program so even in dominant positions they fight tooth and nail to get the classifications. There are plenty of successful families in India that have been using reservations for 2-3 generations now. IMO all reservations should be based on economic considerations now.

This is how OBC is defined. If you create a lot of rukus your community is given an exception. Although the OBC tag in the cities is not considered a good one.


According to the National Commission for Backward Classes (NCBC) guidelines, to be classified as OBC, a caste has to satisfy the following criteria:[28]

Social: The caste should be considered as socially backward by other castes
Educational: The caste's school non-enrollment rate should be at least 25% above the state average
Economic: The assets of the average caste family should be at least 25% below the state average






Based on this analysis, on 26 February 2014, the NCBC unanimously ruled that the Jats in Haryana did not meet the OBC classification criteria.[29] However, the Cabinet rejected this advice arguing that NCBC had not taken into account "the ground realities".[28] On 4 March 2014, a day before the dates for the 2014 Indian general election were announced, the UPA government included Jats from 9 states in the central OBC quota: Haryana, Gujarat, Delhi, Uttarakhand, Uttar Pradesh, Himachal Pradesh, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and Bihar.[22][28] In March 2015, the decision was rejected by the Supreme Court of India.[23] The Supreme Court also excluded the Bharatpur and Dholpur Jats of Rajasthan from the Central OBC list.[27]

bol_nat
08-31-2019, 12:47 PM
I thought about that. In English its written as Dhobi though, and bol_nat said the men were tailors (caste Darzi). Unless they were of Dhobi caste origin who switched to tailoring in his area? Its possible.

And,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chhimba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chhimba_Darzi

The Chhimba Darzi are a Muslim community, found in the province Punjab, Pakistan. Darzi means tailor in Urdu. They are also known as Idrisi or Rajput. They are commonly very skillful persons. They belonged to Rajput karan and Raja Dahar’s ancestors. They also inhabit the Punjab in India and a diaspora in Europe. They now work in a range of occupations but their ancestors' usual work was with clothing and hand-printed textiles.

A significant number of Chhimba Darzi are now found in the city of Manchester in the United Kingdom.[1][page needed]

Never heard of this caste. Toobha’s in our village are kammi. They got affiliated with certain jatt families with in village, for which they work for. Though now days “kammi” work for who ever pay. But thats what I’ve heard from elders. One have to pay mirasi, nai, toobha money even if someone got married outside country where their services were not required. Its part of culture now.

agent_lime
08-31-2019, 01:22 PM
Never heard of this caste. Toobha’s in our village are kammi. They got affiliated with certain jatt families with in village, for which they work for. Though now days “kammi” work for who ever pay. But thats what I’ve heard from elders. One have to pay mirasi, nai, toobha money even if someone got married outside country where their services were not required. Its part of culture now.


In large cities in Northern India it's hijras(3rd gender). It's considered auspicious to give them money. The standard going rate for middle upper class Delhi is $1000+. If you refuse to give them money on a wedding they make a scene in front of your house everyday. If you refuse to give them money on a new born they might even try to hurt the child if possible.

Is it a cultural norm in Pakistan around having to give money to the folks. What happens if you refuse? Or is it considered polite and everyone just does it?

bol_nat
08-31-2019, 02:01 PM
In large cities in Northern India it's hijras(3rd gender). It's considered auspicious to give them money. The standard going rate for middle upper class Delhi is $1000+. If you refuse to give them money on a wedding they make a scene in front of your house everyday. If you refuse to give them money on a new born they might even try to hurt the child if possible.

Is it a cultural norm in Pakistan around having to give money to the folks. What happens if you refuse? Or is it considered polite and everyone just does it?

3rd gender dont do that here. One is supposed to give money only to village kammis after marriage even if it was celebrated outside country. If not then they will refuse to work when you need them, like if someone died. Im just talking about our village. Not sure if this is a thing all over Pakistan.

MonkeyDLuffy
08-31-2019, 02:21 PM
3rd gender dont do that here. One is supposed to give money only to village kammis after marriage even if it was celebrated outside country. If not then they will refuse to work when you need them, like if someone died. Im just talking about our village. Not sure if this is a thing all over Pakistan.

During wedding or any event in village, they've their assigned jobs traditionally. Nais were paid to go and announce the event, dates etc (before printing cards were normal), and they helped during weddings or death with variety of jobs. Jhirs (dhobhi) were assigned the task of bringing water, washing dishes and clothes. Chimbba were paid to make clothes. For sure with time these traditions has vanished, although they're still practiced in some areas where such communities have not received much education or financial lift.

In our weddings or events we still pay and bring these folks for their services. About paying them even when marriage happens abroad, I'm not sure about that as majority of newer generation is educated and have started abandoning the traditional work.

Censored
08-31-2019, 04:23 PM
The UP/ Haryana barber(nai) castes I have seen seem to resemble SC/ST folks. Punjab is so different from the rest of India.

In any part of the country you’ll see people who resemble dalits/shudras while not being one. There’s nothing particularly unique about that

MonkeyDLuffy
08-31-2019, 05:27 PM
In any part of the country you’ll see people who resemble dalits/shudras while not being one. There’s nothing particularly unique about that

I think it can also mean different origin in different parts. The Jhangid/Khatti/Burhai community of Haryana Rajasthan and UP perform the same work as Tarkhans but look a bit different and can sometimes resemble SC types.

Censored
09-01-2019, 11:02 PM
Having viewed my father's scores on various gedmatch calcs and comparing them to my own I can say that more of the "oceanian" and especially SE Asian is coming from him rather than my mother. He is more south shifted. So it's yet another example of phenotype not matching the genotypic reality, at this point nothing will surprise me.

26284729292
09-02-2019, 02:02 AM
Having viewed my father's scores on various gedmatch calcs and comparing them to my own I can say that more of the "oceanian" and especially SE Asian is coming from him rather than my mother. He is more south shifted. So it's yet another example of phenotype not matching the genotypic reality, at this point nothing will surprise me.

Can you post some ballpark scores?

Censored
09-02-2019, 02:05 AM
Can you post some ballpark scores?

For my mother?

26284729292
09-02-2019, 02:26 AM
For my mother?

Either or.

Censored
09-02-2019, 02:32 AM
Either or.

Well I've gone down the list of gedmatch calc threads to post my father's results. My mom who hasn't been tested is probably more or less similar to a SI Brahmin with around 48% South Indian, 3.5% NE Euro, 7.5% Caucasian, 33% Baloch on Harappa. Which is something that's difficult to grasp as she doesnt come from an endogamous community.

26284729292
09-02-2019, 03:03 AM
Well I've gone down the list of gedmatch calc threads to post my father's results. My mom who hasn't been tested is probably more or less similar to a SI Brahmin with around 48% South Indian, 3.5% NE Euro, 7.5% Caucasian, 33% Baloch on Harappa. Which is something that's difficult to grasp as she doesnt come from an endogamous community.

As far as pheno goes, if your dad comes from a community with more "recent" foreign ancestors (i.e. in the last 3-4 generations), it would easily explain the phenotype.

Censored
09-02-2019, 03:22 AM
As far as pheno goes, if your dad comes from a community with more "recent" foreign ancestors (i.e. in the last 3-4 generations), it would easily explain the phenotype.

Not possible, he scores very similar to that AP hyderabad sample, not possible with any recent foreign ancestry. Khana and MDL were very right on this thread:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?13448-Can-someone-help-me-get-to-the-bottom-of-this(South-Asian-Muslim)/page2

26284729292
09-02-2019, 05:29 AM
Not possible, he scores very similar to that AP hyderabad sample, not possible with any recent foreign ancestry. Khana and MDL were very right on this thread:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?13448-Can-someone-help-me-get-to-the-bottom-of-this(South-Asian-Muslim)/page2

To be fair, you might autosomally score like AP hyderabad, but be a mix of tribal and some more recent north indian group, artificially producing similar values, which would result in a broader range of phenotypes.

Censored
09-02-2019, 05:47 AM
To be fair, you might autosomally score like AP hyderabad, but be a mix of tribal and some more recent north indian group, artificially producing similar values, which would result in a broader range of phenotypes.

Thats something ill have to investigate further, but for now Im leaning towards the idea that whatever non-local ancestry he may have is very distant African or east Asian.

parasar
09-02-2019, 07:42 PM
From Razib's analysis:
https://i1.wp.com/www.gnxp.com/WordPress/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Brahmins.png?ssl=1

"– Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, and the Gujarati Brahmin(s) I had are one cluster
– South Indian Brahmins (mostly Iyer) are another

To my surprise, the two Maharashtra Brahmins that I have are firmly in the South Indian cluster. The Bengali Brahmin is more like the North Indians. But there is a subtle skew toward the distant Bangladesh cluster. This individual seems less East Asian than even the typical Bengali Brahmin, but I think Bengali Brahmins can be modeled as North Indian Brahmin with non-Brahmin (and therefore East Asian) ancestry."

Most of the “East Asian” in East Bengalis is not from the Munda
https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/09/01/most-of-the-east-asian-in-east-bengalis-is-not-from-the-munda/
"some Munda admixture in a few individuals, but it doesn’t seem to be the dominant contributor of East Asian ancestry."

pegasus
09-04-2019, 07:35 AM
It has nothing to do with Muslims. If your Caste(class of people) overall has low level of education and/or if your Caste is economically backward then they will be given the OBC label. Like I said before the only exception somewhat is Brahmins. Other very successful castes like the Baniyas, or Parsis, would be very hard to put under any OBC even in states they are backwards. Jats who are the dominant caste in Haryana also created a LOT of trouble in North India 2-3 years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_reservation_agitation

The OBC label is a political one, as an example some forward castes would deal with poverty before they let the government put them in the OBC category. Some want to take advantage of India's very screwed up affirmative action program so even in dominant positions they fight tooth and nail to get the classifications. There are plenty of successful families in India that have been using reservations for 2-3 generations now. IMO all reservations should be based on economic considerations now.

This is how OBC is defined. If you create a lot of rukus your community is given an exception. Although the OBC tag in the cities is not considered a good one.

My Jat Sikh friend told me about this , she said the Jat Sikhs found this down right ridiculous , according to her Haryana is very lawless and unsafe for women, to the point when she visits she takes a flight directly to Amritsar to avoid going on the highway through haryana. She also mentioned during those riots , mainly Punjabi businesses were burned. These are all her anecdotes though I find it surprising considering well its right next to the Capital city, one would expect more law and order.

prashantvaidwan
09-04-2019, 09:19 AM
My Jat Sikh friend told me about this , she said the Jat Sikhs found this down right ridiculous , according to her Haryana is very lawless and unsafe for women, to the point when she visits she takes a flight directly to Amritsar to avoid going on the highway through haryana. She also mentioned during those riots , mainly Punjabi businesses were burned. These are all her anecdotes though I find it surprising considering well its right next to the Capital city, one would expect more law and order.

Apart from the districts adjoining to National capital, other districts have a very low crime rate. Delhi has been the paradise for criminals of all neighboring regions, whether it is Haryana, UP or Rajasthan. I remember few stories from past 15-20 years when Haryana jats were not willing to intermarry with west UP jats due to the crime-pertained image of UP. UP was considered monstrous and lethally dangerous even children carrying desi-made weapons. Now many haryanvis in delhi are on top of the criminal list.

Punjabi in haryana and delhi is the label for the Hindu refugees who migrated from jhang, multan and other districts of pakistan to Haryana, not for all punjabi speaking people. A second wave of Hindus from punjab also migrated to Haryana during 1984 unrest and settled all along the NH1. All These migrants Hindu registered hindi as their mother tongue in punjab and punjabi in Haryana due to an ongoing conflict between hindus and sikhs in punjab after partition. Sikhs in Haryana are simply called Sardars.



https://books.google.co.in/books?id=VxpBDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT78&lpg=PT78&dq=refugees+in+punjab+asked+their+first+tongue+as+ hindi&source=bl&ots=h1wYQQMh94&sig=ACfU3U3kB7lvzqd93MnIr_lm28EJzbi-Jg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjN75TS47bkAhXXT30KHb1GA9gQ6AEwCHoECAYQA Q#v=onepage&q=refugees%20in%20punjab%20asked%20their%20first%2 0tongue%20as%20hindi&f=false

Mandoos
09-04-2019, 01:38 PM
My Jat Sikh friend told me about this , she said the Jat Sikhs found this down right ridiculous , according to her Haryana is very lawless and unsafe for women, to the point when she visits she takes a flight directly to Amritsar to avoid going on the highway through haryana. She also mentioned during those riots , mainly Punjabi businesses were burned. These are all her anecdotes though I find it surprising considering well its right next to the Capital city, one would expect more law and order.

Bit of an exaggeration/paranoia. Many "harrassment" cases are falsely reported for political use. Not denying what happens in villages but its a gross stereotype for an entire state.

Varun R
09-04-2019, 02:23 PM
Bit of an exaggeration/paranoia. Many "harrassment" cases are falsely reported for political use. Not denying what happens in villages but its a gross stereotype for an entire state.

Eh....I wouldn't assume a high rate of deceptive reporting. If anything, research into harassment tends to come to the opposite conclusion. We see that with harassment of all kinds in the US, whether related to race, gender identity, sex, etc. In Tamil Nadu, I have read multiple, recent articles from The Hindu describing caste shaming in schools- ie Dalits forced to clean school toilets, students being required to wear visble caste markers in the form of colored wrist bands, etc. And of course, though better than it was in the past, sexual harrassment is pervasive. I'm sure you would agree that India leaves a lot to be desired with respect to how it treats women, from pre-natal care through adulthood. And basic indicators for the status of women in the country- sex ratio comes to mind immediately- lag behind even nations in similar stages of development. All the aunties I talk to have vivid memories of sexual harrasment and the convoluted steps they had to take to avoid being targets. I still hear these kinds of stories from relatives in India....

prashantvaidwan
09-04-2019, 02:25 PM
Bit of an exaggeration/paranoia. Many "harrassment" cases are falsely reported for political use. Not denying what happens in villages but its a gross stereotype for an entire state.

Sometimes, this Paranoia goes to extreme. I have even read here that human violation cases in kashmeer have surged in last few year bcz Haryana representation has grown in officer rank of defense forces and irony is they have got a place in this devil state after they were thrown out/migrated of/from their home land across the border

Mandoos
09-04-2019, 02:32 PM
Eh....I wouldn't assume a high rate of deceptive reporting. If anything, research into harassment tends to come to the opposite conclusion. We see that with harassment of all kinds in the US, whether related to race, gender identity, sex, etc. In Tamil Nadu, I have read multiple, recent articles from The Hindu describing caste shaming in schools- ie Dalits forced to clean school toilets, students being required to wear visble caste markers in the form of colored wrist bands, etc. And of course, though better than it was in the past, sexual harrassment is pervasive. I'm sure you would agree that India leaves a lot to be desired with respect to how it treats women, from pre-natal care through adulthood. And basic indicators for the status of women in the country- sex ratio comes to mind immediately- lag behind even nations in similar stages of development. All the aunties I talk to have vivid memories of sexual harrasment and the convoluted steps they had to take to avoid being targets. I still hear these kinds of stories from relatives in India....

There were many reports of false rapes during the jat agitations, people only remember the sensational reports and don't see the disproven ones. Its not surprising why. These stories are grotesque for a reason (reports of old women beaten and raped and left on the side of a road - for what reason?) Back in the 90s when Delhi was developing there were obvious tensions between ethnic groups/migrants and people always ascribed it to their state of origin to allay their confusion. I'm not saying such cases should be ignored but don't choose the wrong trajectory by ascribing it to ethnic groups or states.

aaronbee2010
09-04-2019, 02:48 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38796457


Delhi Commission for Women published a report in 2014 describing 53% of rapes reported in the city the previous year as "false"

poi
09-04-2019, 03:55 PM
There are some big names that I did not know were SC.

http://indpaedia.com/ind/index.php/Scheduled_caste_talents_in_Indian_cinema

Varun R
09-04-2019, 04:18 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38796457

From that same article

Although there has been a jump in rape reporting since the Delhi gang-rape, there are still many cases that go unreported and there are so many reasons for that," she says, pointing to traditional patriarchal structures that mean violence against women is consistently downplayed.

"That is a more serious issue to me than a few cases where the parents have probably wrongly accused the man."

Nagarathinam cites a 2014 study using data from the Indian National Crime Records Bureau and the National Family Health Surveys that suggests only 6% of incidents of sexual violence against women are reported to the police.

She insists India needs better data, to understand the scale and nature of the problem.

"If you don't have hard data to base your arguments on, the result is the emotion-driven men's rights versus women's rights arguments that are going on now," she says.

client
09-04-2019, 04:20 PM
There are some big names that I did not know were SC.

http://indpaedia.com/ind/index.php/Scheduled_caste_talents_in_Indian_cinema

Haha, I see plenty of names here that shouldn't be "SC"
'Nigam'(Kayasth), 'Rathod'(Rajput), 'Shinde'(Maratha), 'Kher'(Pandit!)

poi
09-04-2019, 08:34 PM
Haha, I see plenty of names here that shouldn't be "SC"
'Nigam'(Kayasth), 'Rathod'(Rajput), 'Shinde'(Maratha), 'Kher'(Pandit!)

The site notes Nigam as being reported as Srivastava (paternal) and Uttarkhand Brahmin (maternal), so the site acknowledges that Nigam might not be SC after all. However, no such mention for others.

Do you simply go by the surnames? Surnames along might not be enough to determine SC or not. Perhaps the SC is becoming a purely socio-economical term rather than based on traditional (a)Varna classification. Also, there seem to be overlaps in Surnames among Dalit and non-Dalits (eg. "Pandit", "Sharma", etc).

client
09-05-2019, 02:26 AM
The site notes Nigam as being reported as Srivastava (paternal) and Uttarkhand Brahmin (maternal), so the site acknowledges that Nigam might not be SC after all. However, no such mention for others.

Do you simply go by the surnames? Surnames along might not be enough to determine SC or not. Perhaps the SC is becoming a purely socio-economical term rather than based on traditional (a)Varna classification. Also, there seem to be overlaps in Surnames among Dalit and non-Dalits (eg. "Pandit", "Sharma", etc).

SC/ST to my knowledge has always been more rigorously defined than the "OBC" label, but yes, it is possible that it has become flimsy. The site offers an explanation for the "Rathod" individual as well, but none for Jadhav/Shinde etc.
Kailash Kher is a Kashmiri Pandit.

tipirneni
09-05-2019, 05:28 PM
Typical Gujarat faces
https://static.toiimg.com/thumb/imgsize-36324,msid-67412267,width-400,resizemode-4/67412267.jpg
https://static.toiimg.com/thumb/imgsize-9608,msid-59977715,width-400,resizemode-4/59977715.jpg
https://assets.charmboard.com/images/w_1280,h_720/x_0,y_-1,w_1279,h_722,c_crop,q_auto:best,e_sharpen/h_541/im/lc/1068380/neelu-vaghela-in-promo-main-maike-chali-jaungi-tum-dekhte-rahiyo-2019.jpg
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/thumb/msid-66810010,imgsize-173322,width-800,height-600,resizemode-4/66810010.jpg

kush
09-05-2019, 06:09 PM
Nepali Magar Dna results (FTDNA). He looks more east asian than the two limbus I posted before that got nearly 100% East Asian lol. I know pheno doesnt equal geno, just an observation thats all.

78% East Asian
- 52% Northeast Asia
- 20% Southeast Asia
- 6% Siberia

20% Central/South Asia
- 20% South Central Asia

traces
- < 2% Oceania
- <1% South America


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIlgRB1tpfU&t=426s

poi
09-05-2019, 07:03 PM
Nepali Magar Dna results (FTDNA). He looks more east asian than the two limbus I posted before that got nearly 100% East Asian lol. I know pheno doesnt equal geno, just an observation thats all.

78% East Asian
- 52% Northeast Asia
- 20% Southeast Asia
- 6% Siberia

20% Central/South Asia
- 20% South Central Asia

traces
- < 2% Oceania
- <1% South America


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIlgRB1tpfU&t=426s

He is a Thapa Magar, so the "Thapa" part hints as SouthAsian (Khas Chettri) admixture.

kush
09-05-2019, 07:34 PM
He is a Thapa Magar, so the "Thapa" part hints as SouthAsian (Khas Chettri) admixture.

Is it khas chhetri mix though? Northwest indians, pakistanis, bahuns get predominantly central asian than south central on ftdna based on the results i've seen. Could it be tharu mix instead?

Rahuls77
09-05-2019, 08:46 PM
My Jat Sikh friend told me about this , she said the Jat Sikhs found this down right ridiculous , according to her Haryana is very lawless and unsafe for women, to the point when she visits she takes a flight directly to Amritsar to avoid going on the highway through haryana. She also mentioned during those riots , mainly Punjabi businesses were burned. These are all her anecdotes though I find it surprising considering well its right next to the Capital city, one would expect more law and order.

There were reports of violence against women in Rohtak, during the jat reservation riots, most of the news stories were eventually forgotten and a few newspapers reported them as fake stories. Now just how reliable news media is, is a difficult question.

Rahuls77
09-05-2019, 08:52 PM
The culture of violence against groups marked vulnerable is quite pervasive in Haryana.All its major caste groups, the jats, brahmans, ahirs, gujjars have evolved as tribalised units making it a regressive society. There was some horrendous violence against the Sikhs, across all of Haryana, in November 1984.

pegasus
09-05-2019, 09:00 PM
The culture of violence against groups marked vulnerable is quite pervasive in Haryana.All its major caste groups, the jats, brahmans, ahirs, gujjars have evolved as tribalised units making it a regressive society. There was some horrendous violence against the Sikhs, across all of Haryana, in November 1984.

What your saying is pretty much what my friend said .

prashantvaidwan
09-06-2019, 04:24 AM
What your saying is pretty much what my friend said .

Not only haryana, but major violence was reported from many states and they exceeded haryana in death toll. haryana- 50 lives, bihar 200, Madhya pradesh 87 , maharastra -15, UP more than 100

https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/19841130-indira-gandhis-assassination-triggers-off-unprecedented-backlash-of-violence-796834-1984-11-30
In haryana, most infamous was Hondh chillar village near gurgaon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hondh-Chillar_massacre

Censored
09-13-2019, 04:49 PM
Now that we know that Iran_N type ancestry could have existed in S. Asia since the pleistocene it might explain why punjabis look so indian despite having quite different genetics to other indians. The Zagrosian ancestry is so old that it is embedded and defines south asian facial features almost as much as aasi does.

agent_lime
09-13-2019, 05:07 PM
Now that we know that Iran_N type ancestry could have existed in S. Asia since the pleistocene it might explain why punjabis look so indian despite having quite different genetics to other indians. The Zagrosian ancestry is so old that it is embedded and defines south asian facial features almost as much as aasi does.

I don't know if there is anything as looking Indian. You have people all the way from 85% West Eurasian to almost no West Eurasian ancestry. Further, the dominance of Punjabis in Bollywood and the media adds to this. Majority of Indians do not look like Punjabis, there is some overlap with neighboring states and SC/ST population from Punjab. The media is full of North Indian upper castes. Different states have different looks. Have you seen the composites that used to make rounds around the internet?

I am not sure how much science is behind this but I would imagine these do an okay job.

https://qphs.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-614ea581b57cb1c2271c8340bfa659b4

MonkeyDLuffy
09-13-2019, 05:20 PM
Buckle up, Here we go again bois. Let's have a 100 page argument again and try to prove something which will not change what reality is.

Censored
09-13-2019, 05:28 PM
I don't know if there is anything as looking Indian. You have people all the way from 85% West Eurasian to almost no West Eurasian ancestry. Further, the dominance of Punjabis in Bollywood and the media adds to this. Majority of Indians do not look like Punjabis, there is some overlap with neighboring states and SC/ST population from Punjab. The media is full of North Indian upper castes. Different states have different looks. Have you seen the composites that used to make rounds around the internet?

I am not sure how much science is behind this but I would imagine these do an okay job.

https://qphs.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-614ea581b57cb1c2271c8340bfa659b4

33139

33140

Sapporo
09-13-2019, 05:46 PM
Debating whether to post deliberately selected individuals to make a point that won't change the reality. Passing on it for now so the same argument won't be rehashed for the 100th time with the slightest variation.

agent_lime
09-13-2019, 05:57 PM
33139

33140

You don't even need to go that far. I can post folks from my family that easily pass in UP to not passing in India (except Punjab/ Kashmir). What does that prove though? I posted composites used by newspapers. And we aren't talking about outliers, the Bollywood composites are similar to Biradri Punjabis since Bollywood is full of them.

Kulin
09-13-2019, 06:10 PM
I think we've had similar discussions over 9000 times before. It doesn't lead to anything but arguments. Please keep in mind the 5 posts per tangent rule, which especially applies in this case.

pegasus
09-13-2019, 06:12 PM
I don't know if there is anything as looking Indian. You have people all the way from 85% West Eurasian to almost no West Eurasian ancestry. Further, the dominance of Punjabis in Bollywood and the media adds to this. Majority of Indians do not look like Punjabis, there is some overlap with neighboring states and SC/ST population from Punjab. The media is full of North Indian upper castes. Different states have different looks. Have you seen the composites that used to make rounds around the internet?

I am not sure how much science is behind this but I would imagine these do an okay job.



First 2 columns are the majority of Indians in the US esp in IT, "Bollywood Male" can also be found easily too but no to the degree as the other dudes , the first two women though are pretty accurate (too accurate if you ask me), "Bollywood female" looks more like Pakistani girls I have seen both in US/Canada and in Pakistan, the Indian ones who do look like that are usually Sindhi or Punjabi at least in the US from my observation. 5/6 look fit the Indian mould, the "Bollywood female" has a more ambiguous look which can be interpreted as Latina or West Asian IMO.

Obviously there is way more diversity than this and you can find mixes of all these types esp the first three dudes.

Censored
09-13-2019, 07:21 PM
Yea I don’t look like any of those guys, I really wish they’d do a breakdown by every state so I can see which one looks most like me. I have a feeling it would be west bangal

client
09-13-2019, 07:41 PM
Yea I don’t look like any of those guys, I really wish they’d do a breakdown by every state so I can see which one looks most like me. I have a feeling it would be west bangal
But people from maharashtra don't look like people from west bengal

Censored
09-13-2019, 07:49 PM
But people from maharashtra don't look like people from west bengal

im going based off what indians have told me

pegasus
09-13-2019, 07:55 PM
Now that we know that Iran_N type ancestry could have existed in S. Asia since the pleistocene it might explain why punjabis look so indian despite having quite different genetics to other indians. The Zagrosian ancestry is so old that it is embedded and defines south asian facial features almost as much as aasi does.


Half the Iran_N rich types being found esp at Shahr I Sokta were 75-90% Iran_N, 2 of them(Inpe 6/7) are not on G25 and the are essentially very Ganj Dareh like, its not possible they were there since the Pleistocene for a simple reason, they form a close cline with that one SIS1 sample, that is hardly diverged and there were not held up in the Indus valley since the LGM thats impossible. I don't think one can make that conclusion for modern Indian populations as most have way more AASI, often more than their West Eurasian components , where as those like Inpe 6/7 are very West Eurasian. The populations which do harbor similar AASI levels like those Iran_N rich samples have a lot of Steppe MLBA/Siberian related ancestry (Kalash, Kamboj, Ror). The only way to gauge populations to deduce what these people look like is to look at populations where this component is maximized , Baloch, Brahvi, Sindhi, Kalash, Swat/Punjabi Gujjars, among these 5 populations some common phenotypes do pop up, with the most common look occurring among Baloch/Brahvi from there one can deduce how they looked like and they look quite different IMO to the vast majority of Indian populations.

Censored
09-13-2019, 08:17 PM
Half the Iran_N rich types being found esp at Shahr I Sokta were 75-90% Iran_N, 2 of them(Inpe 6/7) are not on G25 and the are essentially very Ganj Dareh like, its not possible they were there since the Pleistocene for a simple reason, they form a close cline with that one SIS1 sample, that is hardly diverged and there were not held up in the Indus valley since the LGM thats impossible. I don't think one can make that conclusion for modern Indian populations as most have way more AASI, often more than their West Eurasian components , where as those like Inpe 6/7 are very West Eurasian. The populations which do harbor similar AASI levels like those Iran_N rich samples have a lot of Steppe MLBA/Siberian related ancestry (Kalash, Kamboj, Ror). The only way to gauge populations to deduce what these people look like is to look at populations where this component is maximized , Baloch, Brahvi, Sindhi, Kalash, Swat/Punjabi Gujjars, among these 5 populations some common phenotypes do pop up, with the most common look occurring among Baloch/Brahvi from there one can deduce how they looked like and they look quite different IMO to the vast majority of Indian populations.

Shahr i shokta is an iffy place, we dont know the origin of all the people living there. How do we have any way of knowing which were from the immediate vicinity and which were from further afield? SIS3 having 45% AASI while others have 20%-nil AASI screams that these people were heterogeneous, most likely from places very far from one another.

I dont understand why very low AASI samples is a sign that there wasn't a very old cline. I also find it hard to believe that prior to neolithic the people of the Indus valley were purely or almost purely east Eurasian when there is no natural barrier to gene flow from the west.

Also, check the fits for Hotu HG. Despite being mesolithic, its closest matches are eneolithic central asians before Iran_N as a result of its higher ANE. You yourself said that the ANE in interior south asians came in the upper paleothic, perhaps it came with this wave of very ancient pre-Iran_N.

tipirneni
09-13-2019, 09:54 PM
https://images.news18.com/ibnlive/uploads/2019/09/Satya-Nadella-Father-BN-Yugandhar.jpg
Satya Nadella & Father

MonkeyDLuffy
09-13-2019, 10:00 PM
https://images.news18.com/ibnlive/uploads/2019/09/Satya-Nadella-Father-BN-Yugandhar.jpg
Satya Nadella & Father

You look like him.

tipirneni
09-13-2019, 10:01 PM
You look like him.

Standard coastal kamma face

pegasus
09-13-2019, 10:07 PM
Shahr i shokta is an iffy place, we dont know the origin of all the people living there. How do we have any way of knowing which were from the immediate vicinity and which were from further afield? SIS3 having 45% AASI while others have 20%-nil AASI screams that these people were heterogeneous, most likely from places very far from one another.

I dont understand why very low AASI samples is a sign that there wasn't a very old cline. I also find it hard to believe that prior to neolithic the people of the Indus valley were purely or almost purely east Eurasian when there is no natural barrier to gene flow from the west.

Also, check the fits for Hotu HG. Despite being mesolithic, its closest matches are eneolithic central asians before Iran_N as a result of its higher ANE. You yourself said that the ANE in interior south asians came in the upper paleothic, perhaps it came with this wave of very ancient pre-Iran_N.


Because you have a sample on the SIS1 cluster which lacks ANF and has AASI ,that's why on Poi's plot it forms a straight line with SIS3. Shahr I Shokta is not far from IVC towns (Shahi Tump, Suktagen Dor) in Balochistan at all, how else you think they found so many Iran_N rich types in Shahr I Shokta? It cannot be iffy because of its placement on the Sistan Basin. Thats why even today your most Iran_N samples are found in the Balochistan vicinity extending to rural Western Sind, even after thousands of years the pattern holds surprisingly. Those AASI enriched populations are clearly coming from east of the Indus,esp that H1a sample. Your not going to find any Iranian like HG on the Indus in the Mesolithic , because the earliest movements of Iran_N like populations point to either Sistan Basin or the Bolan pass at the Afghan border. Also the IVC in itself is an offshoot of cultures which developed in Balochistan they are not autochthonous to the main Indus IVC region transecting Sind and Southern Punjab. ALL the notable archaeologists in Pakistan who have direct access to all these sites today will tell you this not the narrative Shinde is spinning.

Shahr I Shokta is a very well researched site and many Iranian and Italian archaeologists have been working there since the 60s/70s esp considering the Shah himself funded a lot of these excavations (including this one) and plenty of publicity was made esp in the early mid 70s, so don't know where you got this notion that "we don't know who they are " , the Iranian govt even has a museum dedicated for this site.

The IVC is 1 million square miles surely you cannot equate populations in Lothal with those on the Balochistan border,where those Inpe 6/7 types are extremely likely coming from.

Though most of these Iran_N InPe samples are not ancestral to modern Indians , the more AASI shifted ones from Inpe8 to InPe 3(esp from SiS3 to Inpe3) are because most modern Indians even today are dominated by their indigenous ancestry like in your case and your fairly typical of the overall Indian range but with an ANF shift.

"sample": "Custom:AGUser_censored",
"fit": 3.8412,
"Simulated_AASI": 43.33,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 38.33,
"RUS_AfontovaGora3": 10.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 7.5,

laltota
09-13-2019, 10:43 PM
33139

33140

https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Columnist/Columnists/2011/1/21/1295611047252/Chefs-Sat-Bains-and-Nanna-007.jpg

tipirneni
09-13-2019, 11:22 PM
Because you have a sample on the SIS1 cluster which lacks ANF and has AASI ,that's why on Poi's plot it forms a straight line with SIS3. Shahr I Shokta is not far from IVC towns (Shahi Tump, Suktagen Dor) in Balochistan at all, how else you think they found so many Iran_N rich types in Shahr I Shokta? It cannot be iffy because of its placement on the Sistan Basin. Thats why even today your most Iran_N samples are found in the Balochistan vicinity extending to rural Western Sind, even after thousands of years the pattern holds surprisingly. Those AASI enriched populations are clearly coming from east of the Indus,esp that H1a sample. Your not going to find any Iranian like HG on the Indus in the Mesolithic , because the earliest movements of Iran_N like populations point to either Sistan Basin or the Bolan pass at the Afghan border. Also the IVC in itself is an offshoot of cultures which developed in Balochistan they are not autochthonous to the main Indus IVC region transecting Sind and Southern Punjab. ALL the notable archaeologists in Pakistan who have direct access to all these sites today will tell you this not the narrative Shinde is spinning.

Shahr I Shokta is a very well researched site and many Iranian and Italian archaeologists have been working there since the 60s/70s esp considering the Shah himself funded a lot of these excavations (including this one) and plenty of publicity was made esp in the early mid 70s, so don't know where you got this notion that "we don't know who they are " , the Iranian govt even has a museum dedicated for this site.

The IVC is 1 million square miles surely you cannot equate populations in Lothal with those on the Balochistan border,where those Inpe 6/7 types are extremely likely coming from.

Though most of these Iran_N InPe samples are not ancestral to modern Indians , the more AASI shifted ones from Inpe8 to InPe 3(esp from SiS3 to Inpe3) are because most modern Indians even today are dominated by their indigenous ancestry like in your case and your fairly typical of the overall Indian range but with an ANF shift.




"sample": "Custom:AGUser_censored",
"fit": 3.8412,
"Simulated_AASI": 43.33,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 38.33,
"RUS_AfontovaGora3": 10.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 7.5,

Did you see the calls on that ShahriSokhte2 new H1a1a sample?

There was also a M1 apart from many J2a, J1 & R1b. Seems M1 Austro samples were mixed during Bronze age time itself or even earlier in Iran. One of the very ancient megalith sites near Chennai had M1 like faces show up along with E1 & J2a like faces


from Adichllanur site excavations

In 1930, Solly Zuckerman, a research anatomist, did a measurement-based study of two Adichanallur skulls. He found the first to be somewhat Australoid but didn’t think it was too different from being Dravidian. The second, he said, was likely female, and remarkably similar to the Old Woman of Grimaldi, one of two Stone Age skeletal remains found in Italy

In 1963, Indian anthropologists B.K. Gupta and P. Chatterjee published a study based on more advanced skeletal evaluation techniques in which they said the skeletons showed a medley of “primitive” features that belonged to Veddoid-Australoid and Mediterranean races. These races had “contributed to the formation of Dravidian speakers”, they said.


He says they date to 2,500-2,200 BC. “Many of the Adichanallur skulls were that of people from the Middle East, the Mediterranean region, Southeast Asia and the Far East, including what is today Vietnam, Cambodia, China and Japan. The skulls had abnormalities and nutritional deficiencies of the kind typically suffered by seafarers and deep-sea divers. They probably came in through the silk trade route, and the burial ground excavated was probably an exclusive cemetery for foreigners,” Mr. Raghavan says.

https://www.archaeology.lk/1542

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/the-ghosts-of-adichanallur/article22431890.ece

https://patrikai.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/muthu-makkal-thazhi-e1528438103416.jpg

tipirneni
09-14-2019, 01:33 AM
Standard coastal kamma face
There is some Madhya Pradesh admix among us. Look at these thakurs
https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/story/201904/sadhvi_digvijaya.jpeg?8IqYKnCPC0hfG4SKC07ahGl8qDHp oVsr

MonkeyDLuffy
09-14-2019, 01:37 AM
There is some Madhya Pradesh admix among us. Look at these thakurs
https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/story/201904/sadhvi_digvijaya.jpeg?8IqYKnCPC0hfG4SKC07ahGl8qDHp oVsr

Yea it's so visible. What is madhya pradesh mix btw?

tipirneni
09-14-2019, 01:51 AM
Yea it's so visible. What is madhya pradesh mix btw?

It is some Saka era mix that moved into Andhra valley during later Satavahana era. There are a lot of inscriptions about many Sakas moved in during Pallava time 2CE to 9CE. Found mostly among Thakurs. I suspect the Gonur2 & Gonur1 have this kind of mix.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-14-2019, 02:03 AM
It is some Saka era mix that moved into Andhra valley during later Satavahana era. There are a lot of inscriptions about many Sakas moved in during Pallava time 2CE to 9CE. Found mostly among Thakurs. I suspect the Gonur2 & Gonur1 have this kind of mix.

I see, so people of madhya pradesh look like sakas? I definitely see saka admixture in the pictures above.

client
09-14-2019, 02:05 AM
im going based off what indians have told me

yeah i think you look indian

tipirneni
09-14-2019, 02:07 AM
I see, so people of madhya pradesh look like sakas? I definitely see saka admixture in the pictures above.

https://satyavijayi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/vikrama-696x383.jpg

The main Saka kingdom was in Ujjain, MP. later they mixed with ancient Rajas like Chalukyas & Rashtrakutas who were with Andhras to form Rajputs.

client
09-14-2019, 02:08 AM
There is some Madhya Pradesh admix among us. Look at these thakurs
https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/story/201904/sadhvi_digvijaya.jpeg?8IqYKnCPC0hfG4SKC07ahGl8qDHp oVsr
left man he look like andronovo i think you are correct about saka theory
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-061129cec0fdc52c628e7ed6f1b0922d.webp

MonkeyDLuffy
09-14-2019, 02:15 AM
https://satyavijayi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/vikrama-696x383.jpg

The main Saka kingdom was in Ujjain, MP. later they mixed with ancient Rajas like Chalukyas & Rashtrakutas who were with Andhras to form Rajputs.

Do you think they consumed paan or brought consumption of paan? Because paan is very famous among elites of Madhya pradesh. Yea the saadhvi pragya thakur has scythian influence for sure, especially her jawline and hairstyle.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-14-2019, 02:16 AM
left man he look like andronovo i think you are correct about saka theory
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-061129cec0fdc52c628e7ed6f1b0922d.webp

I was about to post this pic, pretty amazing how identical they look. Tiperneni theories are very fascinating to read. I wonder if kammas and rajus have saka gene flow.

Censored
09-14-2019, 02:47 AM
yeah i think you look indian

We were discussing states not countries

Censored
09-14-2019, 02:49 AM
Now let’s talk about some Arab admixed tribals. The influence is very obvious.

33152

Kulin
09-14-2019, 02:51 AM
Now let’s talk about some Arab admixed tribals. The influence is very obvious.

33152

Is this some kind of inside joke lmao.

client
09-14-2019, 03:20 AM
We were discussing states not countries

I don't think there is much difference between Indian states, so it doesn't really make a difference. We already have the average Indian morph.

pegasus
09-14-2019, 03:26 AM
I see, so people of madhya pradesh look like sakas? I definitely see saka admixture in the pictures above.

They are serving us Saka realness, I'm shook.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-14-2019, 03:30 AM
I don't think there is much difference between Indian states, so it doesn't really make a difference. We already have the average Indian morph.

Yes agree, we shouldn't go by small difference between the states when on big picture it's same thing. Although I'm personally curious what kind of admixtures kamma receive because tiperneni anna has found literally every single ancient out there related to kammas and rajus.

Censored
09-14-2019, 03:43 AM
Is this some kind of inside joke lmao.

Me and MDL were definitely joking, I dont know if Tip was. I hope he was.

prashantvaidwan
09-14-2019, 04:38 AM
I was about to post this pic, pretty amazing how identical they look. Tiperneni theories are very fascinating to read. I wonder if kammas and rajus have saka gene flow.
Yes bro, banda photo dekh ke admixture type or date Bata deta hai...dam hai bande main

MonkeyDLuffy
09-14-2019, 04:43 AM
Yes bro, banda photo dekh ke admixture type or date Bata deta hai...dam hai bande main

Bolo hum company khol lete hain. Tiperneni&me. Pic bhejo aur poora dna data lelo.

pnb123
09-14-2019, 06:28 AM
His types I can see similarities with Yamnaya:

He's a politician from Bhutan, but of Nepali origin.
https://i.imgur.com/0YQXICs.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ag7bnUv.jpg

misanthropy
09-14-2019, 06:42 AM
https://satyavijayi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/vikrama-696x383.jpg

The main Saka kingdom was in Ujjain, MP. later they mixed with ancient Rajas like Chalukyas & Rashtrakutas who were with Andhras to form Rajputs.
Where is this pic from? That looks so well preserved


The Maurya Empire went into decline after the death of Ashoka, and Central India was contested among the Sakas, Kushanas, and local dynasties during the 3rd to 1st centuries BCE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Madhya_Pradesh

This stuff is fascinating.

Edit: my dada's side is said to come from Nagpur (that's where the Hadrami mercenaries first served the Maratha Empire before serving the Nizam of Hyderabad)

agent_lime
09-14-2019, 09:14 AM
Deleted

Guessing ethnicity results in flame wars and is against site policy. You can just tell us what this person is.

Reza
09-14-2019, 09:48 AM
There is a 5 post tangent limit and this has been exceeded.

Can we stick to constructive and more objective phenotype discussion only please, rather than the recent posts.

Also ethnicity classifications are against the terms of service.

prashantvaidwan
09-16-2019, 09:45 AM
https://images.news18.com/ibnlive/uploads/2019/09/Satya-Nadella-Father-BN-Yugandhar.jpg
Satya Nadella & Father

Perhaps they changed their caste from brahmin to kamma...

https://www.daily-nation.com/satya-nadella-caste.html

tipirneni
09-16-2019, 03:34 PM
Perhaps they changed their caste from brahmin to kamma...

https://www.daily-nation.com/satya-nadella-caste.html

Some names common to Brahmins & Kammas. They were probably kamma brahmans who mixed into either kamma or brahmin later from earlier buddhist groups. some H clads very close between kamma & brahmins even autosomally.

SALAKAYANA was a dynasty came with Pallavas named after Sage Viswamitra's son Salakayana. Historians still don't know if they mixed with Kammas or Brahmins.

http://www.sureshc.com/2009/09/pages-from-history-saligrama-sacred.html

client
09-16-2019, 04:10 PM
Some names common to Brahmins & Kammas. They were probably kamma brahmans who mixed into either kamma or brahmin later from earlier buddhist groups. some H clads very close between kamma & brahmins even autosomally.

SALAKAYANA was a dynasty came with Pallavas named after Sage Viswamitra's son Salakayana. Historians still don't know if they mixed with Kammas or Brahmins.

http://www.sureshc.com/2009/09/pages-from-history-saligrama-sacred.html

Wait, what is a Kamma Brahmin? How can one simultaneously be a Kamma and a Brahmin?

Most sources tell me that he is a Brahmin, except a blog called "kammasworld".

tipirneni
09-16-2019, 04:58 PM
Wait, what is a Kamma Brahmin? How can one simultaneously be a Kamma and a Brahmin?

Most sources tell me that he is a Brahmin, except a blog called "kammasworld".

Sources say he has Chowdhury in his name. His father name is Yughadar which is popular kamma first name. But Nadella is a ancient kamma brahmin surname, which is used by both Kammas & Brahmins. They probably had split around 400-600AD from a single source as followers of Sariputra who was probably Sarayupari brahmin. There were famous Buddhist gurus like Mahadeva Bhikshu who attended 2nd Buddhist COuncil & raised many questions in Buddhist canons. Later there was famous Acharya Nagarjuna & Aryasangha, Bhuddha Ghosa, Maitreyananda etc.. who made Krishna Valley world famous with numerous Stupas & active Sri Lanka/SouthEast Asian trade network.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-16-2019, 06:11 PM
Sources say he has Chowdhury in his name. His father name is Yughadar which is popular kamma first name. But Nadella is a ancient kamma brahmin surname, which is used by both Kammas & Brahmins. They probably had split around 400-600AD from a single source as followers of Sariputra who was probably Sarayupari brahmin. There were famous Buddhist gurus like Mahadeva Bhikshu who attended 2nd Buddhist COuncil & raised many questions in Buddhist canons. Later there was famous Acharya Nagarjuna & Aryasangha, Bhuddha Ghosa, Maitreyananda etc.. who made Krishna Valley world famous with numerous Stupas & active Sri Lanka/SouthEast Asian trade network.

So basically all groups are absorbed in Kammas? Because going by your posts, gujjars, jats, rajputs, ahirs, yadavs and now brahmins are split off from Kammas. Is there any group which is not related to them?

agent_lime
09-16-2019, 06:27 PM
So basically all groups are absorbed in Kammas? Because going by your posts, gujjars, jats, rajputs, ahirs, yadavs and now brahmins are split off from Kammas. Is there any group which is not related to them?

Many Punjabi biradris share common last names. That does not make them a part of each other. Similarly, just because someone names themselves Choudhary (who I have a few in my extended family as well) it does not make them a certain caste. Kammas in particular like to go to the US for white collar jobs. They are an interesting forward caste group. With any group with so much upward mobility there comes rumors of exotic ancestry. Khatris who are kinda similar aren't immune to this, they themselves go all the way from calling themselves Greeks mixed with Indians, Afghans, Baniyas, Scythians etc etc etc. I want to see the references and aDna proof of all these claims.

tipirneni
09-16-2019, 06:55 PM
So basically all groups are absorbed in Kammas? Because going by your posts, gujjars, jats, rajputs, ahirs, yadavs and now brahmins are split off from Kammas. Is there any group which is not related to them?

Brahma created all races right. it is natural who follow him has admixure from many important races
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Brahma_on_hamsa.jpg

prashantvaidwan
09-16-2019, 07:02 PM
Brahma created all races right. it is natural who follow him has admixure from many important races
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Brahma_on_hamsa.jpg
Guruji, Brahm Gyan...

kush
09-17-2019, 06:48 AM
I'm pleasantly surprised that people from arunachal hindi quite well. They speak better hindi than many south indians. Not even an exaggeration. They can get their point across and their efforts are worth appreciating.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgo0EsOBkT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiPVvuafI44

MonkeyDLuffy
09-17-2019, 07:11 AM
I'm pleasantly surprised that people from arunachal hindi quite well. They speak better hindi than many south indians. Not even an exaggeration. They can get their point across and their efforts are worth appreciating.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgo0EsOBkT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiPVvuafI44

Wait they have mia khalifa picture in girl they like video? Bruh..

kush
09-17-2019, 07:16 AM
Wait they have mia khalifa picture in girl they like video? Bruh..

Lol, the dude gave them options on which girl they'd choose as a potential gf. Mia khalifa was one of the options. One of the guys chose her though haha at 5:20. He seemed clueless as to who she is.

laltota
09-17-2019, 08:22 AM
Wait they have mia khalifa picture in girl they like video? Bruh..

well spotted.

Censored
09-17-2019, 06:45 PM
I'm pleasantly surprised that people from arunachal hindi quite well. They speak better hindi than many south indians. Not even an exaggeration. They can get their point across and their efforts are worth appreciating.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgo0EsOBkT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiPVvuafI44

I heard people in Sikkim do as well. It’s quite nice to see. Hopefully this part of India doesn’t secede, and also we can unite with Nepal.

kush
09-17-2019, 08:04 PM
I heard people in Sikkim do as well. It’s quite nice to see. Hopefully this part of India doesn’t secede, and also we can unite with Nepal.

Ironic part is sikkim and arunachal folks are the least south asian genetically. Go figure.

pnb123
09-17-2019, 08:27 PM
Ironic part is sikkim and arunachal folks are the least south asian genetically. Go figure.
I guess Sikkim has huge Nepali population though. Nepalis in Sikkim & Bhutan are mostly from Eastern Nepal Hills. Before British, there wasn't a set political border (apart from ethnic border). So people just migrated wherever they found economic opportunities & then got politically separated because of man made border, while preserving their ethnicity/caste/religion. Sikkim actually used to be its own country like Bhutan, until it got annexed by India.

kush
09-17-2019, 08:45 PM
I guess Sikkim has huge Nepali population though. Nepalis in Sikkim & Bhutan are mostly from Eastern Nepal Hills. Before British, there wasn't a set political border (apart from ethnic border). So people just migrated wherever they found economic opportunities & then got politically separated because of man made border, while preserving their ethnicity/caste/religion. Sikkim actually used to be its own country like Bhutan, until it got annexed by India.

Yeah sikkim is 2/3 nepali so that makes sense why they speak hindi better than other northeasterners. but the genetic aspect still applies since most eastern nepalis are amongst the least south asian autosomally. Limbus/Rais are around 8-10% S Indian on harappa with like 1% baloch. Bhutias (bhutanese from sikkim) and arunachalis (nyishis) are around 7%. Tibetans are roughly the same at 6%.

pnb123
09-17-2019, 09:29 PM
Yeah sikkim is 2/3 nepali so that makes sense why they speak hindi better than other northeasterners. but the genetic aspect still applies since most eastern nepalis are amongst the least south asian autosomally. Limbus/Rais are around 8-10% S Indian on harappa with like 1% baloch. Bhutias (bhutanese from sikkim) and arunachalis (nyishis) are around 7%. Tibetans are roughly the same at 6%.
Yeah a lot of mainstream Indo Aryan castes as well. Autosomally similar to Bahun/Chhetri/Kamis, etc. I guess Lepcha and Bhutia would be more Tibetan like culturally.

Censored
09-18-2019, 01:49 AM
How did these guys avoid mixing with Indians, they must have remained very separate till recently.

tipirneni
09-18-2019, 01:54 AM
How did these guys avoid mixing with Indians, they must have remained very separate till recently.

Most of them have their own separate tribal kingdoms

poi
09-18-2019, 04:00 AM
How did these guys avoid mixing with Indians, they must have remained very separate till recently.

Pops like Tripuri (NE India) have AASI at ~15% though.

kush
09-18-2019, 05:35 AM
Pops like Tripuri (NE India) have AASI at ~15% though.

Is most of the aasi from south asians or from lao haobinhan/negrito mix? iirc, they barely get any farmer type ancestry.

EDIT. Or it could be just south asian tribal mix since they barely get any west eurasian as well.

poi
09-18-2019, 06:15 AM
Is most of the aasi from south asians or from lao haobinhan/negrito mix? iirc, they barely get any farmer type ancestry.

EDIT. Or it could be just south asian tribal mix since they barely get any west eurasian as well.

NE groups appear to have some amount of SouthAsian/mainland-Indian mix.

Pen=0.001
https://i.imgur.com/2r23wrGr.png

Pen=0
https://i.imgur.com/BCK4C0ar.png

Here are Kusundas (not exactly NE but a group speaking an isolate)

Pen=0.001

https://i.imgur.com/mlm5N3sr.png

Pen=0
https://i.imgur.com/w12Ohz1r.png

pnb123
09-18-2019, 06:28 AM
How did these guys avoid mixing with Indians, they must have remained very separate till recently.
I guess it depends on ethnicity. Those who recently migrated from Tibet would've less admixture with mainland S Asians.

Censored
09-19-2019, 05:27 AM
Ray William Johnson, old YouTuber who seems to have vanished into thin air. He claimed to not be Indian(through his dad, since his mom is white) but I have serious, serious doubts.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/epicrapbattlesofhistory/images/c/c0/Ray_William_Johnson.png/revision/latest?cb=20160421131614

33267

client
09-19-2019, 06:15 AM
Ray William Johnson, old YouTuber who seems to have vanished into thin air. He claimed to not be Indian(through his dad, since his mom is white) but I have serious, serious doubts.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/epicrapbattlesofhistory/images/c/c0/Ray_William_Johnson.png/revision/latest?cb=20160421131614

33267
he doesn't look Indian
https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/averageindianman.jpg?w=490

agent_lime
09-19-2019, 06:36 AM
Ray William Johnson, old YouTuber who seems to have vanished into thin air. He claimed to not be Indian(through his dad, since his mom is white) but I have serious, serious doubts.





Depends what his dad is. If he is backward caste South Indian vs Central Indian or NW Indian.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-19-2019, 08:08 AM
he doesn't look Indian
https://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/averageindianman.jpg?w=490

Where did you find my pic? Please stop posting my picture. I know my mustache is mesmerizing in the pic.

Censored
09-19-2019, 04:37 PM
Depends what his dad is. If he is backward caste South Indian vs Central Indian or NW Indian.

This guy himself looks North Indian so I’m guessing his dad is probably south/central/East Indian

agent_lime
09-19-2019, 05:25 PM
This guy himself looks North Indian so I’m guessing his dad is probably south/central/East Indian

He will easily blend in Chandigard/ Delhi/ Karnal/ Jammu. One of my family friends in the states (punjabi) had a couple of daughters that were half white(NW Euro) and mid caste punjabi. One looked South Euro(Greek/ Sicilian) whereas her sister despite having brown hair looked even more Punjabi than her mom.

Censored
09-19-2019, 10:00 PM
He will easily blend in Chandigard/ Delhi/ Karnal/ Jammu. One of my family friends in the states (punjabi) had a couple of daughters that were half white(NW Euro) and mid caste punjabi. One looked South Euro(Greek/ Sicilian) whereas her sister despite having brown hair looked even more Punjabi than her mom.

NGL I’ve seen like two Greek guys who I was convinced were indian punjabis at first....

MonkeyDLuffy
09-19-2019, 10:12 PM
NGL I’ve seen like two Greek guys who I was convinced were indian punjabis at first....

But how can greek look "Indian Punjabi" when "Indian Punjabi" look like this? Not possible mate.

33274

Censored
09-19-2019, 10:26 PM
But how can greek look "Indian Punjabi" when "Indian Punjabi" look like this? Not possible mate.

33274

He was atypical first off and no they dont look like that. They look somewhat different but still very much in the range of south asian phenotypes.

tipirneni
09-20-2019, 12:26 AM
Strong Resemblence
Ravish Kumar NDTV - Brahmin
https://imagevars.gulfnews.com/2019/08/02/190802-Ravish-Kumar_16c532ad945_large.jpg
Sreenu Vaitla, Tollywoood director - Kamma
https://www.chitramala.in/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Roopa-Vaitla-and-Sreenu-Vytla.jpg
Super 30 Anand Kumar - Chandravanshi BC
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/thumb/msid-69903811,width-800,height-600,resizemode-4/69903811.jpg?imglength=29190

tipirneni
09-20-2019, 12:31 AM
Ravish is Bhumihar Brahmin married to Dasgupta
https://www.bollywoodclassroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Webp.net-compress-image-5.jpg

MonkeyDLuffy
09-20-2019, 01:37 AM
Ravish is Bhumihar Brahmin married to Dasgupta
https://www.bollywoodclassroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Webp.net-compress-image-5.jpg

Can you find my kamma version as well anna?

Censored
09-20-2019, 02:04 AM
Can you find my kamma version as well anna?

what does anna mean

client
09-20-2019, 02:08 AM
what does anna mean

The Latinate and New Testament form of Ann, from Ancient Greek Ἄννα (Ánna), equal to the Hebrew female name חַנָּה‎ (ḥannâ) of Old Testament, meaning "grace, gracious".

MonkeyDLuffy
09-20-2019, 02:37 AM
what does anna mean

Client beat me to it

tipirneni
09-20-2019, 02:49 AM
Can you find my kamma version as well anna?
this guy Pinder Ramgarhia - Fashion Model looks very rare, few people found with that mixture all over India. High steppe content
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/977140214958141440/iTH3bZik_400x400.jpg

MonkeyDLuffy
09-20-2019, 02:59 AM
this guy Pinder Ramgarhia - Fashion Model looks very rare, few people found with that mixture all over India. High steppe content
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/977140214958141440/iTH3bZik_400x400.jpg

Anna he looks like my generic family member. I doubt he is any more steppe than me. The ramgarhia kits we've, some of them are very exotic looking, and they score same as others.

Also did you find a kamma version of me. I'm very curious.

tipirneni
09-20-2019, 03:43 AM
Anna he looks like my generic family member. I doubt he is any more steppe than me. The ramgarhia kits we've, some of them are very exotic looking, and they score same as others.

Also did you find a kamma version of me. I'm very curious.


Kamma are heavily mixed into Chandravanshi, Yaduvanshi, Brahmins, Thakurs & look like old mix (SISBA2 3) but they are not high outside content like some of the Ramgarhia & Jat Sikhs look like.

But people like Montek Singh https://smedia2.intoday.in/btmt/images/stories/montek-singh-ahluwalia2_505_032112072101.jpg you can find among Tamil Brahmins & Kammas

client
09-20-2019, 04:05 AM
Kamma are heavily mixed into Chandravanshi, Yaduvanshi, Brahmins, Thakurs & look like old mix (SISBA2 3) but they are not high outside content like some of the Ramgarhia & Jat Sikhs look like.

But people like Montek Singh https://smedia2.intoday.in/btmt/images/stories/montek-singh-ahluwalia2_505_032112072101.jpg you can find among Tamil Brahmins & Kammas
Do Tamil Brahmins and Kammas have common origins? What are some Kamma gotras?
What about Kapu, Velama, Reddy, Raju?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQxZx5kUk-vnUS8Vv4UfLeLL9nS-pidhJXlJJZxKm1Ij7UiH7bE

famous kamma actor dialogue
[
https://youtu.be/RTtdWiKX5Ow

kush
09-20-2019, 06:33 AM
famous kamma actor dialogue


brah you just can't mess around with Balayya. He's the true G of telugu cinema.

JAI BALAYYAAA :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty4dLUkAEEY

laltota
09-20-2019, 07:46 AM
what does anna mean

In Google search mostly they say "anna" means elder brother in Tamil. Another says Anna is brother in Tamil, Telugu and Kannada.


Something different - "Anna" was also a coin of the past in India and Pakistan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_anna
An anna (or ānā) was a currency unit formerly used in India and Pakistan, equal to ​1⁄16 of a rupee.[1] It was subdivided into four paisa or twelve pies (thus there were 64 paise or 192 pies in a rupee). The anna is very light-weighted.[vague] The term belonged to the Islamic monetary system.[citation needed] The anna was demonetised as a currency unit when India decimalised its currency in 1957, followed by Pakistan in 1961. It was replaced by the 5-paise coin, which was itself discontinued in 1994 and demonetised in 2011. Despite this, a 50-paise coin is still sometimes colloquially referred to as 8 annas today, with a 25-paise coin nicknamed 4 annas.[citation needed]

There was a coin of one anna, and also half-anna coins of copper and two-anna pieces of silver.[citation needed] The term anna is frequently used to express a fraction of ​1⁄16. Additionally, anna-denominated postage stamps were used during the British Raj.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/1_Indian_Anna.jpg/1920px-1_Indian_Anna.jpg

MonkeyDLuffy
09-20-2019, 12:39 PM
In Google search mostly they say "anna" means elder brother in Tamil. Another says Anna is brother in Tamil, Telugu and Kannada.


Something different - "Anna" was also a coin of the past in India and Pakistan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_anna
An anna (or ānā) was a currency unit formerly used in India and Pakistan, equal to ​1⁄16 of a rupee.[1] It was subdivided into four paisa or twelve pies (thus there were 64 paise or 192 pies in a rupee). The anna is very light-weighted.[vague] The term belonged to the Islamic monetary system.[citation needed] The anna was demonetised as a currency unit when India decimalised its currency in 1957, followed by Pakistan in 1961. It was replaced by the 5-paise coin, which was itself discontinued in 1994 and demonetised in 2011. Despite this, a 50-paise coin is still sometimes colloquially referred to as 8 annas today, with a 25-paise coin nicknamed 4 annas.[citation needed]

There was a coin of one anna, and also half-anna coins of copper and two-anna pieces of silver.[citation needed] The term anna is frequently used to express a fraction of ​1⁄16. Additionally, anna-denominated postage stamps were used during the British Raj.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/1_Indian_Anna.jpg/1920px-1_Indian_Anna.jpg

Anna as in coin is pronounced as "aana". For e.g. "16 aane sachi gall".

Reza
09-20-2019, 12:45 PM
Anna as in coin is pronounced as "aana". For e.g. "16 aane sachi gall".

My parents still say - 16 Ana - to effectively mean 100pc in Bengali.

laltota
09-20-2019, 01:23 PM
Anna as in coin is pronounced as "aana". For e.g. "16 aane sachi gall".

That's true. :)
In English would it be closer to the pronunciation if written as "aanaa" ?
I suppose "aana" is also close enough to write in English, and maybe this is closer than writing it as "aanaa"?

I think in Punjabi we would write ਆਨਾ ? So therefore "aana" in English is best. You were right all along. :)

MonkeyDLuffy
09-20-2019, 02:25 PM
That's true. :)
In English would it be closer to the pronunciation if written as "aanaa" ?
I suppose "aana" is also close enough to write in English, and maybe this is closer than writing it as "aanaa"?

I think in Punjabi we would write ਆਨਾ ? So therefore "aana" in English is best. You were right all along. :)

That's how I'd write it in gurmukhi myself. English is not the best for tonal words.

agent_lime
09-20-2019, 02:26 PM
My parents still say - 16 Ana - to effectively mean 100pc in Bengali.

It's pretty common for Eastern India as well. It's gotten slightly antiquated in the last 10 years. Used be much more common in Northern India as well, but the term went out of fashion in the 90's when I was a child. People were still taking charanne, and aathanne few years ago.

tipirneni
09-20-2019, 03:13 PM
brah you just can't mess around with Balayya. He's the true G of telugu cinema.

JAI BALAYYAAA :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty4dLUkAEEY
Balayya power role as Satavahana emperor is beyond compare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSb79lZSyDA

kush
09-20-2019, 06:27 PM
South Asian Races - 1909 map

Lol, I love the category names. Scytho-Dravidian haha.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6f/India1909PrevailingRaces.JPG/1104px-India1909PrevailingRaces.JPG

MonkeyDLuffy
09-20-2019, 08:01 PM
South Asian Races - 1909 map

Lol, I love the category names. Scytho-Dravidian haha.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6f/India1909PrevailingRaces.JPG/1104px-India1909PrevailingRaces.JPG

The whole concept of classifying phenotypes and races is hilarious and shows how inaccurate it was. Yet I see people from here posting and following same pseudo science on other boards for whatever satisfaction they get. So glad I'm over this stuff.

kush
09-20-2019, 09:07 PM
The whole concept of classifying phenotypes and races is hilarious and shows how inaccurate it was. Yet I see people from here posting and following same pseudo science on other boards for whatever satisfaction they get. So glad I'm over this stuff.

I dont see anything wrong with exploring phenotypes. most of these anthroforums are just for fun anyways.

Censored
09-20-2019, 10:34 PM
I dont see anything wrong with exploring phenotypes. most of these anthroforums are just for fun anyways.


Uh I don’t know about that. A lot of people take those forums so seriously you would think their lives depend on it. I never seen so many grown ass men who obsess over skin and eye color in one place.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-20-2019, 11:54 PM
Uh I don’t know about that. A lot of people take those forums so seriously you would think their lives depend on it. I never seen so many grown ass men who obsess over skin and eye color in one place.

Looks brachid iranic with nitro oxide influence in left teeth. Could pass as midget warrior of Amazon tribe.

Looks apache zyzzoid with minor chest brahoid in right arm, could pass as roids powered tesla model 3.

My old posts legit make me cringe now, so glad I was an immature kid back then. If I was still into that stuff, I'd probably think about where my life is going.

Censored
09-21-2019, 12:04 AM
Looks brachid iranic with nitro oxide influence in left teeth. Could pass as midget warrior of Amazon tribe.

Looks apache zyzzoid with minor chest brahoid in right arm, could pass as roids powered tesla model 3.

My old posts legit make me cringe now, so glad I was an immature kid back then. If I was still into that stuff, I'd probably think about where my life is going.

Worse is those people get irate and start making threats if you say their ethnicity is dark, which is absurd. I dont get it, in real life and other sites I have never seen any male let alone a grown one so sensitive about skin color. It is something only petty people can get so worked up over.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-21-2019, 12:06 AM
Worse is those people get irate and start making threats if you say their ethnicity is dark, which is absurd. I dont get it, in real life I have never seen any male let alone a grown one so sensitive about skin color. It is something only petty people can get so worked up over.

You should be nicer to then and give them link to Fair and Handsome cream.

I was legit convinced that I'll turn out to be 50% Chinese. I actually bought the test because of that lmao ;_;

kush
09-21-2019, 12:08 AM
You should be nicer to then and give them link to Fair and Handsome cream.

we all want to be gore chitte bro. you wouldnt understand cause you're already fair and handsome :P

Censored
09-21-2019, 12:10 AM
we all want to be gore chitte bro. you wouldnt understand cause you're already fair and handsome :P

whats chitte?

kush
09-21-2019, 12:13 AM
whats chitte?

I think its a synonym for 'gore' meaning fair. Its a common punjabi phrase that i hear. I might be wrong though. punjabi users on here can confirm

MonkeyDLuffy
09-21-2019, 12:15 AM
whats chitte?

Chitta means white. In Punjabi we say Chitta like in Hindi it's Safed.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-21-2019, 12:16 AM
we all want to be gore chitte bro. you wouldnt understand cause you're already fair and handsome :P

It's all thanks to Fair and Handsome mate.

Censored
09-21-2019, 12:19 AM
It's all thanks to Fair and Handsome mate.

Its hilarious how indians think that making themselves lighter automatically makes them "handsome". Strange mentality.

kush
09-21-2019, 12:21 AM
Its hilarious how indians think that making themselves lighter automatically makes them "handsome". Strange mentality.

Indians arent the only ones that obsess over lighter skin lol. On forums and reality, I notice groups from all over, especially asian countries overall, talking about skin tone.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-21-2019, 12:27 AM
Its hilarious how indians think that making themselves lighter automatically makes them "handsome". Strange mentality.

Nah the obsession is prevalent in a lot of countries and communities. Check out Mujra videos from Pakistan sometimes, the ladies have white dry wall plaster applied on their face. Skin bleaching is big in Middle east as well, along with getting nosejobs and colouring hair blonde.

For some reason I find medium brown or medium olive skintone to be the most beautiful. The tan makes the skin look almost golden brown.

Censored
09-21-2019, 12:33 AM
Indians arent the only ones that obsess over lighter skin lol. On forums and reality, I notice groups from all over, especially asian countries overall, talking about skin tone.

I know but Im talking about people thinking that being lighter automatically makes someone better looking. Whatever happened to bone structure

Yes its a thing in east asian countries as well. I met one SE Asian girl online. Not the worst person I encountered on the internet but definitely the most annoying by far. She kept trying to paint herself as an anti-racism warrior who embraced dark skinned people but it was all just a facade to hide her own obsession with skin color. The amount of projection was through the roof-she kept accusing me of the very things she was guilty of i.e. obsessing over light skin and white people. Yet I never even mentioned any of those things once while she talked about it in every other sentence.

Also making sure to tell me how "dark"(almost black according to her), australoid, and south indian I looked at every chance she got. I had to put her in place not because I was offended but because it just got too annoying to bear. There are very few things I lose my temper at over the internet but one of those is accusing me of doing or thinking things I do not.

kush
09-21-2019, 12:56 AM
I know but Im talking about people thinking that being lighter automatically makes someone better looking. Whatever happened to bone structure

The older gen is definitely like that. My parents sometimes say how 'black and unappealing' someone is randomly. Ironic thing is my dad is pitch black yet he insults very dark skinned people. Younger gen is more open minded for sure regarding such matters, but there's still that offense associated with darker skin tone to an extent. I think younger gen indians look at a combo of both, skin tone and features. Features way moreso i'd say.

poi
09-21-2019, 02:35 AM
My parents still say - 16 Ana - to effectively mean 100pc in Bengali.

We still use “aana” and other non-metric unit especially when dealing with land. 16 aana = 1 ropani.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepalese_customary_units_of_measurement

poi
09-21-2019, 02:45 AM
Chitta means white. In Punjabi we say Chitta like in Hindi it's Safed.

Safed had to be a Persian term . The Hindi/Indic equivalent would be “Shwet”. In Nepali , it is “Seto” for white (not used to denote skin color), but “goro/i” for light skinned, not necessarily white.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-21-2019, 02:56 AM
Safed had to be a Persian term . The Hindi/Indic equivalent would be “Shwet”. In Nepali , it is “Seto” for white (not used to denote skin color), but “goro/i” for light skinned, not necessarily white.

Yea Safid/Safed is a persian addition to Hindi. The only time you'll hear the word Safed being used in Punjabi is when referring to Eucalyptus tree which is called "Safeda". I wonder what's the origin of Chitta.

poi
09-21-2019, 04:00 AM
Yea Safid/Safed is a persian addition to Hindi. The only time you'll hear the word Safed being used in Punjabi is when referring to Eucalyptus tree which is called "Safeda". I wonder what's the origin of Chitta.

If I did not completely screw it up, Sanskrit "Shweta" (eventually) became "Chitta" in Punjabi. Nepali "Seto" likely has same origin.

prashantvaidwan
09-21-2019, 01:05 PM
33320
33321
Ravi Dahiya from sonepat, haryana, won bronze yesterday in world wrestling

tipirneni
09-22-2019, 08:40 PM
One of my Aunt has stark resemblance to mummy portrait from Faiyum Basin, Hawara in Egypt which are from Greco-Roman period of late 1st century BC to the middle of the 3rd century AD
https://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?assetId=594697001&objectId=152631&partId=1
https://i.imgur.com/6U3VfpQ.png


https://youtu.be/hERz4uNeQg0

agent_lime
09-22-2019, 08:52 PM
33320
33321
Ravi Dahiya from sonepat, haryana, won bronze yesterday in world wrestling

I don't know why but I see a Siberian influence. His look is very common too.

Censored
09-22-2019, 08:54 PM
One of my Aunt has stark resemblance to mummy portrait from Faiyum Basin, Hawara in Egypt which are from Greco-Roman period of late 1st century BC to the middle of the 3rd century AD
https://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?assetId=594697001&objectId=152631&partId=1
https://i.imgur.com/6U3VfpQ.png


https://youtu.be/hERz4uNeQg0

Not even close.

tipirneni
09-22-2019, 09:12 PM
Not even close.

where re you viewing my friend, you got to look at ethnic features & IBS matches

Censored
09-22-2019, 09:19 PM
where re you viewing my friend, you got to look at ethnic features & IBS matches

Yes, and they look nothing alike.

tipirneni
09-22-2019, 09:21 PM
Yes, and they look nothing alike.

may be for only yourself.

Censored
09-22-2019, 09:38 PM
Aboriginal Australians. Some of them look like us


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HypNVcsozDE&t=243s

pegasus
09-22-2019, 10:42 PM
One of my Aunt has stark resemblance to mummy portrait from Faiyum Basin, Hawara in Egypt which are from Greco-Roman period of late 1st century BC to the middle of the 3rd century AD
https://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?assetId=594697001&objectId=152631&partId=1
https://i.imgur.com/6U3VfpQ.png


https://youtu.be/hERz4uNeQg0

This Greco Egyptian woman from Fayum has a very Mediterranean/Levantine face, your aunt does not at all. They share a pleasant expression but nothing phenotypically.

bol_nat
09-22-2019, 11:13 PM
my gujjar friend with his brother.

33361

kush
09-22-2019, 11:33 PM
33320
33321
Ravi Dahiya from sonepat, haryana, won bronze yesterday in world wrestling

Haryana produces some amazing wrestlers. India got 5 medals at the world wrestling championship event and among those, 4 of em are from haryana. The 5th wrestler is from maharashtra.

The indian wrestlers that won at the event (besides Ravi)

Deepak Punia (silver)
https://odishasuntimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Deepak-Punia-784x441.jpg

Bajrang Punia (bronze)
https://static.toiimg.com/thumb/msid-65463814,width-1070,height-580,imgsize-1153745,resizemode-6,overlay-toi_sw,pt-32,y_pad-40/photo.jpg

Vinesh Phogat (bronze) - same phogat family the movie Dangal is based on.
https://femina.wwmindia.com/content/2019/aug/vinesh-phogat-thumbnail1565515748.jpg

Rahul Aware (bronze) - Hes from maharashtra. Only non haryanvi in the list.
https://static.toiimg.com/photo/msid-71247087/71247087.jpg?resizemode=4&width=400

tipirneni
09-23-2019, 01:11 AM
This Greco Egyptian woman from Fayum has a very Mediterranean/Levantine face, your aunt does not at all. They share a pleasant expression but nothing phenotypically.

Indians lack high Med/Levantine. But there are some features that show up that might have been a admixture coming from Mediterranean but got diluted over time.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-23-2019, 01:14 AM
Haryana produces some amazing wrestlers. India got 5 medals at the world wrestling championship event and among those, 4 of em are from haryana. The 5th wrestler is from maharashtra.

The indian wrestlers that won at the event (besides Ravi)

Deepak Punia (silver)
https://odishasuntimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Deepak-Punia-784x441.jpg

Bajrang Punia (bronze)
https://static.toiimg.com/thumb/msid-65463814,width-1070,height-580,imgsize-1153745,resizemode-6,overlay-toi_sw,pt-32,y_pad-40/photo.jpg

Vinesh Phogat (bronze) - same phogat family the movie Dangal is based on.
https://femina.wwmindia.com/content/2019/aug/vinesh-phogat-thumbnail1565515748.jpg

Rahul Aware (bronze) - Hes from maharashtra. Only non haryanvi in the list.
https://static.toiimg.com/photo/msid-71247087/71247087.jpg?resizemode=4&width=400

Haryana jats are probably the most atheltic people in India. It has always surprised me how much participation they have in National and International games.

Censored
09-23-2019, 01:19 AM
Does anyone know how many Muslims lived in what is now Hayana prior to partition? They are currently only 7% of the population which is low for north India. Even UP has like 25% despite a large number of them migrating. How many left and when they did were they considered muhajirs or did they assimilate with punjabis?

kush
09-23-2019, 01:29 AM
Haryana jats are probably the most atheltic people in India. It has always surprised me how much participation they have in National and International games.

I think haryana jats are only popular in wrestling. Dont see them in other sports that much. Most other sports like hockey, kabbadi, track, soccer, bball its usually punjabis and south indians with some NE indians as well.

pegasus
09-23-2019, 01:51 AM
Indians lack high Med/Levantine. But there are some features that show up that might have been a admixture coming from Mediterranean but got diluted over time.

Thats not possible esp in your aunt's case and assuming she is from the community your from , she looks like elderly Sri Lankan Tamil women I would see on the RT in Toronto years ago. The ones who exhibit such traits usually are ones which have recent ancestry from the Near East or are from Himalayan groups. I have seen Habesha/Amhara women with such features with the similar skin tone as your aunt tho.

tipirneni
09-23-2019, 02:04 AM
Thats not possible esp in your aunt's case and assuming she is from the community your from , she looks like elderly Sri Lankan Tamil women I would see on the RT in Toronto years ago. The ones who exhibit such traits usually are ones which have recent ancestry from the Near East or are from Himalayan groups. I have seen Habesha/Amhara women with such features with the similar skin tone as your aunt tho.

You can't find Sri Lankan or Himalayan groups with big segments of mtDNA I matches & heavy IberoMauri admix. Habesha may have some but theirs is also distinct from the North African.

pegasus
09-23-2019, 02:15 AM
You can't find Sri Lankan or Himalayan groups with big segments of mtDNA I matches & heavy IberoMauri admix. Habesha may have some but theirs is also distinct from the North African.

Horners have a large portion of Levantine related ancestry, they even found them all the way in Kenya, so your not making sense here again. Also using matching segments to justify your aunt's likeness to a woman who looks absolutely nothing like her and whose been dead for 2000 years is not only weird it is creepy.

Censored
09-23-2019, 02:24 AM
Thats not possible esp in your aunt's case and assuming she is from the community your from , she looks like elderly Sri Lankan Tamil women I would see on the RT in Toronto years ago. The ones who exhibit such traits usually are ones which have recent ancestry from the Near East or are from Himalayan groups. I have seen Habesha/Amhara women with such features with the similar skin tone as your aunt tho.

kush i believe once posted a south indian who could pass as near eastern. I forgot what she looked like maybe he can show her again but anyway the phenotype is quite unusual particularly for hindus

tipirneni
09-23-2019, 02:31 AM
Horners have a large portion of Levantine related ancestry, they even found them all the way in Kenya, so your not making sense here again. Also using matching segments to justify your aunt's likeness to a woman who looks absolutely nothing like her and whose been dead for 2000 years is not only weird it is creepy.

IF it is intellectually challenging to imagine autosomes/mtDNA/phenotypes etc.. that is fine. You said it, which is even more better & direct way

Mandoos
09-23-2019, 03:10 AM
You can't find Sri Lankan or Himalayan groups with big segments of mtDNA I matches & heavy IberoMauri admix. Habesha may have some but theirs is also distinct from the North African.

Please stop imagining things. Any w.eurasian ties from those haplogroups is likely from paleolithic/early neolithic groups that spread across Iran and India. These groups spread into neolithic populations way before the eurasian "races" were formed

Ajanta painting from roughly same time period, 99% of my maternal ancestors and even yours from ~40,000 B.C. onwards would have resembled her in one form or the other

33364

misanthropy
09-23-2019, 03:47 AM
So did Monkey and Tirp form that company that gives adna, y-dna, mtdna, ancients, moderns breakdown of photos?

33365

pegasus
09-23-2019, 03:54 AM
IF it is intellectually challenging to imagine autosomes/mtDNA/phenotypes etc.. that is fine. You said it, which is even more better & direct way

Your a good poster but sometimes well.........

tipirneni
09-23-2019, 04:06 AM
Please stop imagining things. Any w.eurasian ties from those haplogroups is likely from paleolithic/early neolithic groups that spread across Iran and India. These groups spread into neolithic populations way before the eurasian "races" were formed

Ajanta painting from roughly same time period, 99% of my maternal ancestors and even yours from ~40,000 B.C. onwards would have resembled her in one form or the other

33364

Andhra Krishna Valley had later admix during Ikshvaku & Pallava times which is not present in Kerala or TN.

client
09-23-2019, 04:33 AM
So did Monkey and Tirp form that company that gives adna, y-dna, mtdna, ancients, moderns breakdown of photos?

33365
in this pic you look like Baniyas but you had an Arabian vibe in another pic so your harappaworld results are
# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 52
2 Baloch 35
3 Caucasian 5
4 SW-Asian 4
5 NE-Euro 3
6 E-African 1


Andhra Krishna Valley had later admix during Ikshvaku & Pallava times which is not present in Kerala or TN.

where did this admixture come from?
--

Tamil Nadu Dalit leader Thol warmly surrounded by Brahmin priests with an ornate shawl
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeV4p8qVIAARJeT.jpg

I wonder what their gedmatch scores will be

agent_lime
09-23-2019, 05:16 AM
I wonder what their gedmatch scores will be

Ethnicity SIndian Baloch Caucasian NEEuro Asian

Tamil 62% 30% 0% 0%
Tamil Brahmin Iyer 48% 38% 4% 5%

client
09-23-2019, 05:19 AM
Ethnicity SIndian Baloch Caucasian NEEuro Asian

Tamil 62% 30% 0% 0%
Tamil Brahmin Iyer 48% 38% 4% 5%
That Tamil is more like Piramalai than Dalit
TN-dalit 73% 22% 1% 0%
sakilli 68% 26% 1% 0%

prashantvaidwan
09-23-2019, 05:22 AM
I don't know why but I see a Siberian influence. His look is very common too.
He will easily blend in with central asian wrestlers..and what do you mean by common? This look is quite rare in india apart from north West and specially Haryana jatts

agent_lime
09-23-2019, 05:30 AM
He will easily blend in with central asian wrestlers..and what do you mean by common? This look is quite rare in india apart from north West and specially Haryana jatts

I mean within Haryana Jatts it is very common. I knew at least 5 guys with similar looks.

prashantvaidwan
09-23-2019, 05:35 AM
I think haryana jats are only popular in wrestling. Dont see them in other sports that much. Most other sports like hockey, kabbadi, track, soccer, bball its usually punjabis and south indians with some NE indians as well.

Indian kabaddi team is dominated by Haryanvi jats always.... significant presence in boxing , shooting etc. I think now they are exploring almost all of the sports.

client
09-23-2019, 05:44 AM
Indian kabaddi team is dominated by Haryanvi jats always.... significant presence in boxing , shooting etc. I think now they are exploring almost all of the sports.
Yes and Kabaddi is a Dravidian sport

The word kabaddi has been derived from the Tamil word "kai-pidi" (கை பிடி) which means "to hold hands".

From Tamil கை பிடி (kai piṭi), from கை (kai, “hand”) + பிடி (piṭi, “catch”), which could be translated as "holding hands".

prashantvaidwan
09-23-2019, 06:17 AM
Yes and Kabaddi is a Dravidian sport
Wikipedia says :
"Kabaddi (Tamil: கபடி) originated in the modern Tamil region of the Indian subcontinent, which is predominantly present day Tamil Nadu and parts of other South Indian states of India. Tamil empire spread this game to South East Asia during their sea trade. The word kabaddi has been derived from the Tamil word "kai-pidi" (கை பிடி) which means "to hold hands".

The exact origins of Kabaddi are disputed, with theories suggesting that Kabaddi originated from either the Vedic period of ancient India, or the Sistan region of present-day Iran. The game was said to have been popular among the Yadava people; an abhang by Tukaram stated that the god Krishna played the game in his youth, while the Mahabharata contains an account of Arjuna being able to sneak into hostile areas also take out enemies unscathed, which parallels the gameplay of kabaddi.

There are also accounts of Gautama Buddha having played the game recreationally. "

client
09-23-2019, 06:41 AM
Wikipedia says :
"Kabaddi (Tamil: கபடி) originated in the modern Tamil region of the Indian subcontinent, which is predominantly present day Tamil Nadu and parts of other South Indian states of India. Tamil empire spread this game to South East Asia during their sea trade. The word kabaddi has been derived from the Tamil word "kai-pidi" (கை பிடி) which means "to hold hands".

The exact origins of Kabaddi are disputed, with theories suggesting that Kabaddi originated from either the Vedic period of ancient India, or the Sistan region of present-day Iran. The game was said to have been popular among the Yadava people; an abhang by Tukaram stated that the god Krishna played the game in his youth, while the Mahabharata contains an account of Arjuna being able to sneak into hostile areas also take out enemies unscathed, which parallels the gameplay of kabaddi.

There are also accounts of Gautama Buddha having played the game recreationally. "

Maybe it invented in the Dravida Nadu part of ancient India during the Vedic period. it must have been popular among Tamil Yadavas from Madurai(Mathura).

Btw speaking of which here is the result of a Tamil Yadav + Vellalar friend of mine

laltota
09-23-2019, 07:21 AM
Indian kabaddi team is dominated by Haryanvi jats always.... significant presence in boxing , shooting etc. I think now they are exploring almost all of the sports.

Recently maybe(?), but not historically I should think.

kush
09-23-2019, 07:37 AM
Indian kabaddi team is dominated by Haryanvi jats always.... significant presence in boxing , shooting etc. I think now they are exploring almost all of the sports.

There's also Neeraj Chopra, who set a record for javelin throw. He's a ror i think rather than jat but still from haryana anyways. Yeah haryanvis are quite talented in sports.

pegasus
09-23-2019, 07:37 AM
He will easily blend in with central asian wrestlers..and what do you mean by common? This look is quite rare in india apart from north West and specially Haryana jatts

This guy Dahia, yes definitely will blend in more so among Afghans though, because of his features and jawline. Though he has this archaic look which you frequently see among people in central and western Nuristan, I pinpoint this to Central Steppe EBA/Siberian related ancestry like Agent stated. Roughly half of the dudes in this particular area look on a similar wavelength as him , the other half look like either Sintashta/Andronovo types or a hybrid between the first two. DMXX , a former member and I coined this third group "Punjabi Caucasus " hybrids years back.

prashantvaidwan
09-23-2019, 08:51 AM
Recently maybe(?), but not historically I should think.

Not sure if it was long back but they have a good strength in Indian kabaddi team since 1982 when kabaddi was in cluded in Asian games

client
09-23-2019, 03:38 PM
Probably not everyone's cup of tea, this, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

I found a "metric match" of sorts for the Mesolithic Gangetic Sarai Nahar Rai 4(presumably "AHG") skull among Late Upper Paleolthic/Early Mesolithic Europeans("WHG"):

Sarai Nahar Rai, Pratapgarh, Uttar Pradesh estimated age 10,345 ± 110BP
location

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jay_Stock/publication/227092233/figure/fig2/AS:[email protected]/Location-of-archaeological-sites-yielding-crania-used-in-this-study-with-sample-sizes-in.png

metrics(Sarai Nahar Rai 4)

https://scontent-sin2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/71690821_501258113994887_8127817839189950464_n.png ?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQnZZ_-m7dUEu29ki5zFzxcdoar7CXgJmRzmw4QBcbTBRCeXz5ri7L9-Yy2BgJGKBf0&_nc_ht=scontent-sin2-2.xx&oh=f712c589734ca424e27be2f9e3243761&oe=5DF271AD

Skull
https://scontent-sin2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/71147671_382337019357476_6374696284422406144_n.png ?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQnHvR0eAdWNYZ2szmij32iopHwl2N5J1M7ThxLN1Yy SMQCHfn0eaBq7if9CsuIgSQI&_nc_ht=scontent-sin2-2.xx&oh=57e723a5a65ea263fd8c6a88defa04e7&oe=5DFA5F16


Grotte Du Bichon, Switzerland, estimated age 13500BP
metrics(Bichon 1)

https://scontent-sin2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/70679730_369883340555485_1146629416172912640_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQm2CUwTTTqsu_rs_fSU8vRtfpJbFhOUGc8g8jlikNV m-Ncx1rLaSnm5MjOwWmnmv7E&_nc_ht=scontent-sin2-2.xx&oh=d56ede062e6af789000fa79fff73ccd5&oe=5DF1255B

Skull
https://i.imgur.com/ILJV3lw.jpg



The bizygomatic breadth("cheekbones") is actually broader on SNR, but the interesting part is, the orbital and even nasal dimesnions are quite similar.

If WHG being dark(v dark) is true, they may have looked similar, barring non-metric traits :D

tipirneni
09-23-2019, 06:03 PM
Probably not everyone's cup of tea, this, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

I found a "metric match" of sorts for the Mesolithic Gangetic Sarai Nahar Rai 4(presumably "AHG") skull among Late Upper Paleolthic/Early Mesolithic Europeans("WHG"):

Sarai Nahar Rai, Pratapgarh, Uttar Pradesh estimated age 10,345 ± 110BP
location

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jay_Stock/publication/227092233/figure/fig2/AS:[email protected]/Location-of-archaeological-sites-yielding-crania-used-in-this-study-with-sample-sizes-in.png

metrics(Sarai Nahar Rai 4)

https://scontent-sin2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/71690821_501258113994887_8127817839189950464_n.png ?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQnZZ_-m7dUEu29ki5zFzxcdoar7CXgJmRzmw4QBcbTBRCeXz5ri7L9-Yy2BgJGKBf0&_nc_ht=scontent-sin2-2.xx&oh=f712c589734ca424e27be2f9e3243761&oe=5DF271AD

Skull
https://scontent-sin2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/71147671_382337019357476_6374696284422406144_n.png ?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQnHvR0eAdWNYZ2szmij32iopHwl2N5J1M7ThxLN1Yy SMQCHfn0eaBq7if9CsuIgSQI&_nc_ht=scontent-sin2-2.xx&oh=57e723a5a65ea263fd8c6a88defa04e7&oe=5DFA5F16


Grotte Du Bichon, Switzerland, estimated age 13500BP
metrics(Bichon 1)

https://scontent-sin2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/70679730_369883340555485_1146629416172912640_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQm2CUwTTTqsu_rs_fSU8vRtfpJbFhOUGc8g8jlikNV m-Ncx1rLaSnm5MjOwWmnmv7E&_nc_ht=scontent-sin2-2.xx&oh=d56ede062e6af789000fa79fff73ccd5&oe=5DF1255B

Skull
https://i.imgur.com/ILJV3lw.jpg



The bizygomatic breadth("cheekbones") is actually broader on SNR, but the interesting part is, the orbital and even nasal dimesnions are quite similar.

If WHG being dark(v dark) is true, they may have looked similar, barring non-metric traits :D

The WHG majorly shows up among Chnadravanshi people

poi
09-24-2019, 05:23 AM
Probably not everyone's cup of tea, this, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

I found a "metric match" of sorts for the Mesolithic Gangetic Sarai Nahar Rai 4(presumably "AHG") skull among Late Upper Paleolthic/Early Mesolithic Europeans("WHG"):

Sarai Nahar Rai, Pratapgarh, Uttar Pradesh estimated age 10,345 ± 110BP
location

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jay_Stock/publication/227092233/figure/fig2/AS:[email protected]/Location-of-archaeological-sites-yielding-crania-used-in-this-study-with-sample-sizes-in.png

metrics(Sarai Nahar Rai 4)

https://scontent-sin2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/71690821_501258113994887_8127817839189950464_n.png ?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQnZZ_-m7dUEu29ki5zFzxcdoar7CXgJmRzmw4QBcbTBRCeXz5ri7L9-Yy2BgJGKBf0&_nc_ht=scontent-sin2-2.xx&oh=f712c589734ca424e27be2f9e3243761&oe=5DF271AD

Skull
https://scontent-sin2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/71147671_382337019357476_6374696284422406144_n.png ?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQnHvR0eAdWNYZ2szmij32iopHwl2N5J1M7ThxLN1Yy SMQCHfn0eaBq7if9CsuIgSQI&_nc_ht=scontent-sin2-2.xx&oh=57e723a5a65ea263fd8c6a88defa04e7&oe=5DFA5F16


Grotte Du Bichon, Switzerland, estimated age 13500BP
metrics(Bichon 1)

https://scontent-sin2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/70679730_369883340555485_1146629416172912640_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQm2CUwTTTqsu_rs_fSU8vRtfpJbFhOUGc8g8jlikNV m-Ncx1rLaSnm5MjOwWmnmv7E&_nc_ht=scontent-sin2-2.xx&oh=d56ede062e6af789000fa79fff73ccd5&oe=5DF1255B

Skull
https://i.imgur.com/ILJV3lw.jpg



The bizygomatic breadth("cheekbones") is actually broader on SNR, but the interesting part is, the orbital and even nasal dimesnions are quite similar.

If WHG being dark(v dark) is true, they may have looked similar, barring non-metric traits :D
Genetically, due to divergence and geography, the WHGs of Europe were the further-most West Eurasian pops so (any skeletal) metric similarities between them and the local Mesolithic Ganges AASI/AHG pops would have been through pure chance, right? There is no way AASI would be related to WHGs within at least 20,000 years.

Having said that, it would be amazing if the technology is developed to sequence/genotype those AASI skeletons. 20-80% of South Asian DNA is made up of those HGs, so critical to understand the population genetics of 2 billion people.

client
09-24-2019, 06:32 AM
Genetically, due to divergence and geography, the WHGs of Europe were the further-most West Eurasian pops so (any skeletal) metric similarities between them and the local Mesolithic Ganges AASI/AHG pops would have been through pure chance, right? There is no way AASI would be related to WHGs within at least 20,000 years.

Having said that, it would be amazing if the technology is developed to sequence/genotype those AASI skeletons. 20-80% of South Asian DNA is made up of those HGs, so critical to understand the population genetics of 2 billion people.

of course, skulls having somewhat similar metrics can be found all over Eurasia, and even Paleolithic Northern Africa (Iberomaurusians). I didn't claim AHG was related to WHGs at all, and their separation is bound to have been way more than 20,000 years.

26284729292
09-24-2019, 12:49 PM
Have been spending some time in UP, haryana, and delhi. Will post thoughts when I get back. Has been a great experience though. Food is to die for.

parasar
09-25-2019, 03:59 PM
Genetically, due to divergence and geography, the WHGs of Europe were the further-most West Eurasian pops so (any skeletal) metric similarities between them and the local Mesolithic Ganges AASI/AHG pops would have been through pure chance, right? There is no way AASI would be related to WHGs within at least 20,000 years.

...
Probably, but there was a reappearance of the old WHG Goyet-Aurignacian type among the Magdalenians.

"This is a real surprise, says team member Cosimo Posth at the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Jena, Germany. It shows that the Aurignacian lineage didn’t disappear when the Gravettians swept across Europe.
“In fact from the end of the Last Glacial Maximum some 19,000 years ago, its genetic component reappeared in Spain. From then to around 14,000 years ago this nuclear signal spread in Europe again,” he says."

kush
09-27-2019, 02:34 AM
Half Indian Half Chinese girl with her 23andme results. I think she could go unnoticed in Punjab/northwest south asia. She probably fits as a latina best though.

Her father is Malayali and mother is Chinese. Both of her parents are from Malaysia.

Results at 5:50


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmKyzMYoHRw&t=350s

33428
33429

Censored
09-27-2019, 02:49 AM
Half Indian Half Chinese girl with her 23andme results. I think she could go unnoticed in Punjab/northwest south asia. She probably fits as a latina best though.

Her father is Malayali and mother is Chinese. Both of her parents are from Malaysia.

Results at 5:50


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmKyzMYoHRw&t=350s

33428
33429

Maybe, but still atypical. A lot of mixed race people just look ambiguous and it's difficult to tell what ethnicities they are exactly, especially if it's more than 2.

Censored
10-03-2019, 01:23 AM
Some photos of Mari people. Many of them look very white but genetically they are very distant from even eastern Europeans, much much further than Sintashta is. A lot more Siberian/East Asian ancestry.

33596

33597

Does anyone know if a lot of them are just culturally converted Russians? Because this is quite shocking.

agent_lime
10-03-2019, 06:30 AM
Posted in the photos thread too..

Hiking..


33603

agent_lime
10-03-2019, 08:31 AM
I watched Bard of Blood. Kirti Kulhari really seemed like she might be MENA till she started talking in fluent Urdu. She is a Rajasthani Jat.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j92Lw77oXmY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcv5UrZxJeQ

26284729292
10-03-2019, 10:34 AM
Wanted to post some non-food thoughts from my time in the Delhi area as part of a business/NGO related medical venture. The food would take up pages anyways...

So I was thinking some about what Pegasus said with regarding to the majority of the Indian population having a tribal base and as a result 40-60% AASI) and from spending extensive time within the city, that certainly held true.It's hard to hold down percentages, but I'd say that ~60% would fit into that general range: a "pan-indian" look as you might call it. Above that, 30% of Delhi seemed to fit into the north indian baniya/gupta/south indian brahmin types who you still find in big cities in the south (not implying these 3 genetic groups are the same).

The remaining 10% is where I feel Delhi felt "separate" from larger cities down south that I have visited. Delhi is closer to Punjab and Rajasthan than I realized.I met several Rajputs, Jats, Jatts, and Arora/Khatri (groups I identified by surname/last name). They really popped out at me in relation to the "pan-indian" type.

Something I was unaware of was how much phenotypic overlap I saw in these top groups. I met one guy who I was convinced was Khatri, based on how similar he looked to some of my US peers, but he actually was Tarkhan (same surname as MDL actually(!!!!)). I met a Rajput who I assumed was Jatt. Etc. Etc.

Especially in rural Haryana, where I met some really interesting Jats who talked about their agriculture and farming life in the context of healthcare. Many of them starkly stuck out amongst their non Jat haryana peers. I saw things like brown hair, colored eyes, and extremely distinct feature sets that stood out drastically in the hot, harsh climate. Prashant's photos of Jats I feel were a good representation of the diversity I saw. Haryana was a very scenic place at this time of year. Beautiful flowers, plains, and some underrated scenery as well.

All in all it was a fantastic trip for professional purposes and for eating easily the best north indian food I've had, but spending so much time in the city has really piqued my genetic interest.

I'd love to spend more time in Kashmir when things mellow out and explore Pakistan/Punjab as well at some point.

If anyone has any thoughts/questions, do share. I thought it would be fun to give my take as a US born south asian, and relatively new to Delhi (last time I went I was around 5ish).

agent_lime
10-03-2019, 12:17 PM
Wanted to post some non-food thoughts from my time in the Delhi area as part of a business/NGO related medical venture. The food would take up pages anyways...

So I was thinking some about what Pegasus said with regarding to the majority of the Indian population having a tribal base and as a result 40-60% AASI) and from spending extensive time within the city, that certainly held true.It's hard to hold down percentages, but I'd say that ~60% would fit into that general range: a "pan-indian" look as you might call it. Above that, 30% of Delhi seemed to fit into the north indian baniya/gupta/south indian brahmin types who you still find in big cities in the south (not implying these 3 genetic groups are the same).

The remaining 10% is where I feel Delhi felt "separate" from larger cities down south that I have visited. Delhi is closer to Punjab and Rajasthan than I realized.I met several Rajputs, Jats, Jatts, and Arora/Khatri (groups I identified by surname/last name). They really popped out at me in relation to the "pan-indian" type.

Something I was unaware of was how much phenotypic overlap I saw in these top groups. I met one guy who I was convinced was Khatri, based on how similar he looked to some of my US peers, but he actually was Tarkhan (same surname as MDL actually(!!!!)). I met a Rajput who I assumed was Jatt. Etc. Etc.

Especially in rural Haryana, where I met some really interesting Jats who talked about their agriculture and farming life in the context of healthcare. Many of them starkly stuck out amongst their non Jat haryana peers. I saw things like brown hair, colored eyes, and extremely distinct feature sets that stood out drastically in the hot, harsh climate. Prashant's photos of Jats I feel were a good representation of the diversity I saw. Haryana was a very scenic place at this time of year. Beautiful flowers, plains, and some underrated scenery as well.

All in all it was a fantastic trip for professional purposes and for eating easily the best north indian food I've had, but spending so much time in the city has really piqued my genetic interest.

I'd love to spend more time in Kashmir when things mellow out and explore Pakistan/Punjab as well at some point.

If anyone has any thoughts/questions, do share. I thought it would be fun to give my take as a US born south asian, and relatively new to Delhi (last time I went I was around 5ish).

As someone from Delhi I would like to comment. The 10% is probably a little under estimated.



According to a 2013 The Hindu article, surveys by the political parties indicate that the dominant voter caste / community groups in Delhi include the Jats (10%), Punjabis (9%), Vaish (8%), Gujjars (12%) and Sikhs (4%).[4]

According to a 2015 India TV article, the major voter social groups include Punjabis (different castes and religions) (35%), Purvanchalis (24%), Muslims (12%), Jats (8%), Vaishyas (8%), Gujjars (8%), Sikhs (5%) and around 35 lakh Uttarakhandis.[7] Jats, Punjabi Khatris nd Brahmins dominated politics in Delhi for many decades.[8]


Place of birth of Delhiites in 1951 Number of people
Delhi 717,310
Pakistan (mainly West Punjab and East Bengal) 474,744
Uttar Pradesh (including present-day Uttarakhand) 262,098
East Punjab (including present-day Chandigarh, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh, and Punjab) 162,468
Rajasthan 48,592


Your chances of meeting the Punjabi/ Jats groups is probably less likely. They live in specific areas and they are usually lower % in startup/tech based industries. West Delhi is very Punjabi dominated for instance, Jats are more in smaller areas nearer to Haryana. Migration is a huge factor in Delhi, so within 3 decades of me being born the demographics in Delhi has completely changed. UP to a large extent is the large majority of Delhi population today, I would say with Biharis they would be easily over 50% of the population, and because of their economic status you are more likely to see them in the streets. There is a saying among the economic migrants from UP/ Bihar "Dilli sabki mata hai" (Delhi is everyone's mother/ provides for everyone). If you came when we were children that 10% would be more like 50%.

If you are still around, we can get a beer sometime. I'll probably be heading back to the states in 2 months.

pegasus
10-03-2019, 12:59 PM
.........

pegasus
10-03-2019, 01:01 PM
........

26284729292
10-03-2019, 01:15 PM
As someone from Delhi I would like to comment. The 10% is probably a little under estimated.



Your chances of meeting the Punjabi/ Jats groups is probably less likely. They live in specific areas and they are usually lower % in startup/tech based industries. West Delhi is very Punjabi dominated for instance, Jats are more in smaller areas nearer to Haryana. Migration is a huge factor in Delhi, so within 3 decades of me being born the demographics in Delhi has completely changed. UP to a large extent is the large majority of Delhi population today, I would say with Biharis they would be easily over 50% of the population, and because of their economic status you are more likely to see them in the streets. There is a saying among the economic migrants from UP/ Bihar "Dilli sabki mata hai" (Delhi is everyone's mother/ provides for everyone). If you came when we were children that 10% would be more like 50%.

If you are still around, we can get a beer sometime. I'll probably be heading back to the states in 2 months.

Unfortunately I just returned home 2 days back. I wish I posted this earlier now :(.

Hopefully at some point down the line though, it would be a lot of fun.

Censored
10-03-2019, 05:56 PM
Unfortunately I just returned home 2 days back. I wish I posted this earlier now :(.

Hopefully at some point down the line though, it would be a lot of fun.

Might be a weird question but how do some of you manage to move around the country alone(I’m assuming?). I’ve been there a few times but the thought of traveling without a relative who knows the place especially in a region I’m unfamiliar with is enough to make me shiver.

26284729292
10-04-2019, 01:45 AM
Might be a weird question but how do some of you manage to move around the country alone(I’m assuming?). I’ve been there a few times but the thought of traveling without a relative who knows the place especially in a region I’m unfamiliar with is enough to make me shiver.

Uber is great. I have some Hindi speaking buddies and they helped, but English was usually enough. South Delhi where I was staying is pretty nice so I felt pretty safe. The people were very nice in general, especially in Haryana proper.

Censored
10-04-2019, 02:20 AM
Uber is great. I have some Hindi speaking buddies and they helped, but English was usually enough. South Delhi where I was staying is pretty nice so I felt pretty safe. The people were very nice in general, especially in Haryana proper.

But aren't you worried about some car accident, getting carjacked, getting kidnapped, etc? When we go my family uses trains because the roads are apparently too dangerous. Also what about sanitation? I get horribly sick each time-did you stay at hotels during this time?

client
10-04-2019, 02:31 AM
But aren't you worried about some car accident, getting carjacked, getting kidnapped, etc? When we go my family uses trains because the roads are apparently too dangerous. Also what about sanitation? I get horribly sick each time-did you stay at hotels during this time?

Getting kidnapped and married off against your will is only part of the experience.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_kidnapping

26284729292
10-04-2019, 10:15 AM
But aren't you worried about some car accident, getting carjacked, getting kidnapped, etc? When we go my family uses trains because the roads are apparently too dangerous. Also what about sanitation? I get horribly sick each time-did you stay at hotels during this time?

I stayed with family friends. And as for those other things, I don't think I stuck out too much as long as I didn't open up my mouth so I didn't worry too much for safety.

As far as getting sick, I tried to avoid uncooked street food and I have a pretty resilient stomach.

India is certainly not a 1st world country, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I found it quite safe.

agent_lime
10-04-2019, 10:27 AM
But aren't you worried about some car accident, getting carjacked, getting kidnapped, etc? When we go my family uses trains because the roads are apparently too dangerous. Also what about sanitation? I get horribly sick each time-did you stay at hotels during this time?

You'll be fine brah. Go to Goa/Kerela or the Himalayas/Agra/Delhi/Ladakh it'll be a fun time, you can try the NE as well like Shillong. As for food only eat from reputed places, water needs to be from a bottle.

misanthropy
10-04-2019, 06:18 PM
I've noticed Indian Muslims (Sunni) with the surname Ali can look pretty West Asian shifted compared to the norm, particularly ones from Hyderabad. Do we know anything about their possible origins?

If I could vaguely describe the look of a few people I know in America with that surname, it would be Iranic/Central Asian looking. One of my classmates is Hyderabadi with that surname and I was like "I thought you're Pakistani! You're Hyderabadi? You're practically white!" lol.

MonkeyDLuffy
10-04-2019, 11:53 PM
Uber is great. I have some Hindi speaking buddies and they helped, but English was usually enough. South Delhi where I was staying is pretty nice so I felt pretty safe. The people were very nice in general, especially in Haryana proper.

If we're in India at same time next year, I'll show you around Punjab, Chandigarh, Himachal and Kashmir. That's my turf. Will show you real rural culture and farm life. I can't promise a beer but you bet your ass you're getting a thick glass of whiskey on our farm's motor.

26284729292
10-06-2019, 12:57 AM
If we're in India at same time next year, I'll show you around Punjab, Chandigarh, Himachal and Kashmir. That's my turf. Will show you real rural culture and farm life. I can't promise a beer but you bet your ass you're getting a thick glass of whiskey on our farm's motor.

That's some offer! You guys are great.

misanthropy
10-06-2019, 06:09 AM
@26284729292 Did you get any reactions or comments on your appearance?

agent_lime
10-06-2019, 06:35 AM
@26284729292 Did you get any reactions or comments on your appearance?

I would think as someone who grew up there that he would blend into Northern India unless he opens his mouth.

26284729292
10-06-2019, 10:23 AM
@26284729292 Did you get any reactions or comments on your appearance?

I didn’t. I did throw around “parents from south India” a few times and was met with inquisitive/odd looks, when asked where my parents “were really from”.

But for the mot part any attention I got came mainly from opening my mouth. Otherwise I think I blended in pretty well.

Censored
10-07-2019, 05:41 AM
Do you guys think that I or any of you could pass as some sort of black/white mix? I feel I may have gotten this before and seen others get it too...

Mandoos
10-07-2019, 05:55 AM
I didn’t. I did throw around “parents from south India” a few times and was met with inquisitive/odd looks, when asked where my parents “were really from”.

But for the mot part any attention I got came mainly from opening my mouth. Otherwise I think I blended in pretty well.

Theres plenty of migrants from south India, Bihar and Jharkhand who work in the area, as well as dalits so its much like saying you blended well in LA despite looking latino...

Censored
10-07-2019, 06:10 AM
Theres plenty of migrants from south India, Bihar and Jharkhand who work in the area, as well as dalits so its much like saying you blended well in LA despite looking latino...

Our bro doesn’t look like y’all tho...

Mandoos
10-07-2019, 06:45 AM
Our bro doesn’t look like y’all tho...

Point is its not hard to blend in those areas as long as you look remotely south Asian, due to diversity

26284729292
10-07-2019, 06:49 AM
Point is its not hard to blend in those areas as long as you look remotely south Asian, due to diversity

Who suggested it’s hard to blend? Honestly I was just replying to the comment. I’d say I fit in fine with the average south-Delhi-ite.

kush
10-07-2019, 06:25 PM
Hyderabadi Muslim actor Ali Reza. He's on telugu big boss this season. I feel like he could fit very well among nw indians and pakistanis

https://i.imgur.com/ekCPZJK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZnLeBU1.jpg

passion
10-07-2019, 08:54 PM
Hyderabadi Muslim actor Ali Reza. He's on telugu big boss this season. I feel like he could fit very well among nw indians and pakistanis

https://i.imgur.com/ekCPZJK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZnLeBU1.jpg

look like Pak actor Syed Jibran , who is from Jehlum
https://scontent.fham3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43184111_570419333391017_6205516208372973568_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQmBRqXuFor0Ujryaw5c6YAu_YcABoEKnN0hDh7IPYU me-x5rgUTNhUQ5IWoFrjEaZxdwxqFnf7eSFkSjBXarxY4&_nc_ht=scontent.fham3-1.fna&oh=b9af95fe85ddf641a743b94d142bd4f9&oe=5E3D6B33

Censored
10-07-2019, 09:35 PM
Point is its not hard to blend in those areas as long as you look remotely south Asian, due to diversity

That's true. Realistically, few people will be questioned to begin with even if they're not from the area. You'd have to look strikingly different and Delhi is one of hte most diverse cities in the nation. On the other hand I'm not surprised that they'd be shocked if they found out where he's actually from.

Censored
10-08-2019, 04:32 AM
So what're you guys' observations regarding religious devotion across nationalities? I've found that Indians(Muslims) tend to be more conservative and devout than Pakistanis, who in turn are more conservative and devout than Arabs(tend to be levantines around here), who in turn are more religious than Turks and Persians.

Of course these trends apply mainly to the west and specifically the United States. There's far more variation in the old world itself. But I'm assuming my analysis is pretty spot on for America, correct?

agent_lime
10-08-2019, 12:17 PM
Hyderabadi Muslim actor Ali Reza. He's on telugu big boss this season. I feel like he could fit very well among nw indians and pakistanis


Googled this guy. With modern cameras and adjusting pictures people can look slightly different. If I had to place this guy I would think MP, Malayali , maybe UP. Less typically he will pass in Punjab or Haryana.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weW0mLOxBiQ

client
10-08-2019, 01:02 PM
Googled this guy. With modern cameras and adjusting pictures people can look slightly different. If I had to place this guy I would think MP, Malayali , maybe UP. Less typically he will pass in Punjab or Haryana.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weW0mLOxBiQ

here he looks like a slightly chubbier Michael Mando(French Canadian of Mexican descent)
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/a/ae/Michael_Mando.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170702111803

Censored
10-09-2019, 10:56 PM
Is everyone just gonna ignore my comment? :(

tipirneni
10-10-2019, 12:43 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89KeHnjtMAg
modern Kazakh Shaman in Astana

tipirneni
10-10-2019, 02:16 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2qwJGYRQqo
Rahbar Ansari,Youth leader, Nepal Communist party

kush
10-10-2019, 05:57 AM
So what're you guys' observations regarding religious devotion across nationalities? I've found that Indians(Muslims) tend to be more conservative and devout than Pakistanis, who in turn are more conservative and devout than Arabs(tend to be levantines around here), who in turn are more religious than Turks and Persians.

Of course these trends apply mainly to the west and specifically the United States. There's far more variation in the old world itself. But I'm assuming my analysis is pretty spot on for America, correct?

I havent met too many indian muslims in the US but I knew two kerala muslim guys. They werent that devout. I knew one kannadiga and UP muslim as well. The kanndiga dude smokes, drinks, eats all kinds of meats, etc but the UP one was quite religious. But again, these are all guys and they usually get some slack anyways. I think hyderabadi and UP muslims seem more religious compared muslims from rest of the country.

Pakistanis are quite religious from what I've seen but their families arent that strict tbh. It seems like most kids are devout through personal choice. Few pakistani girls I know used to wear hijab back in high school but in college they took it off and their families were fine with it. One of them even drinks.

There arent many turks in the US. Persians and levantines yes they're quite open minded, though many of them are quite religious as well, especially levantines.

agent_lime
10-11-2019, 06:54 AM
I've been looking at Parsis on Youtube. Some clearly look a lot more Gujarati than the others. Since membership is paternal I think some of them have been making alliances elsewhere. Some them look Punjabi to me just less robust.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1zbZ9npGkQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKmCmwIJDbU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9kPPfHHNqQ

Censored
10-13-2019, 10:22 PM
I havent met too many indian muslims in the US but I knew two kerala muslim guys. They werent that devout. I knew one kannadiga and UP muslim as well. The kanndiga dude smokes, drinks, eats all kinds of meats, etc but the UP one was quite religious. But again, these are all guys and they usually get some slack anyways. I think hyderabadi and UP muslims seem more religious compared muslims from rest of the country.

Pakistanis are quite religious from what I've seen but their families arent that strict tbh. It seems like most kids are devout through personal choice. Few pakistani girls I know used to wear hijab back in high school but in college they took it off and their families were fine with it. One of them even drinks.

There arent many turks in the US. Persians and levantines yes they're quite open minded, though many of them are quite religious as well, especially levantines.

Yea I don’t know why but at least with Hyderabadi/Indian Muslims it seems like the most extremist ones tend to lean towards more Middle Eastern or Afghan phenotypes. It seems that way with some family members too.

bol_nat
10-15-2019, 05:21 PM
I've been looking at Parsis on Youtube. Some clearly look a lot more Gujarati than the others. Since membership is paternal I think some of them have been making alliances elsewhere. Some them look Punjabi to me just less robust.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1zbZ9npGkQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKmCmwIJDbU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9kPPfHHNqQ

They will not look out of place among sindhis and lohanas. Even though they have little south asian admixture.

agent_lime
10-16-2019, 06:21 AM
They will not look out of place among sindhis and lohanas. Even though they have little south asian admixture.

Yea, same with Hindu Sindhis, Khatris, Punjabi Jats. The biggest difference is they seem less robust than most of the Punjabi biradris I have seen personally.

misanthropy
10-16-2019, 08:07 PM
Will delete in a bit, but this is my maternal cousin’s kid. His other half is North Indian with Uzbek descent

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